Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[elbleuet]

High elves = original thalassian elves, affiliated with the Alliance
Blood elves = fel/light infused thalassian elves, affiliated with the Horde

[FlubberPuddy]

Blizzard is not going to waste an AR slot on another thalasian elf who's only difference is eye color, come on guys use your common sense.

You say this now, but what about when Wildhammers happen, or Forest Trolls, or any other 3rd iteration (we already have 3 diff human types - Stormwind, Gilnean, Kul'Tiran)? I can see what you're saying here for BFA and maybe next expansion, it all depends on how they round out the remaining AR in BFA. Once we know whether Vulpera, Sethrak, Mechagnomes, Gilbins, Lightforged Undead are either not happening or happening then what do you think most people will ask for?

They're going to ask for old fan favorites like Ogres, Vrykul, High Elves, Forest Trolls, Wildhammers, Ethereals, etc. Players can't ask for something new that doesn't exist because we don't know what future Blizzard knows. But even of the already existing options throughout the years, there's been popular and unpopular (by unpopular I mean either had little or no interest that it was barely known to be a request aka like mechagnomes) race suggestions.

One thing is notable though, Elves have always been popular in WoW - hell in the entire fantasy genre. There's going to be another Elf type down the line, just like we see little drops from developers on Wildhammers possibly happening.

This entire topic isn't just for the course of BFA, but for WoW's lifetime overall. If someone doesn't give a shit or think they'll never happen in 10 years, that's cool. But I doubt the Nightborne and Void Elves are the last time we see Elves added as a playable race.

With all that out of the way, for your last bit about "only difference is eye color" note that Dark Iron were just grey/dark skinned dwarves with red color beards and red eyes - all those features were already on the dwarf customization. When an AR becomes playable they receive additional customization to make them stand out from the existing options - as we saw Dark Iron get actual fiery eyes, more charcoal-y skin tones, and fire-tinged beards/hair as well as them having different styles and accessories. No reason this can't be implemented to High Elves if they get implemented as an Allied Race.

Void Elf males have access to beard styles unavailable to Blood Elf males. Being a playable race means extra customization is already a given.

[elbleuet]

We just need some high elvish costomisations. And Blizzard could easily do that.

[Varx]

You say this now, but what about when Wildhammers happen, or Forest Trolls, or any other 3rd iteration (we already have 3 diff human types - Stormwind, Gilnean, Kul'Tiran)? I can see what you're saying here for BFA and maybe next expansion, it all depends on how they round out the remaining AR in BFA. Once we know whether Vulpera, Sethrak, Mechagnomes, Gilbins, Lightforged Undead are either not happening or happening then what do you think most people will ask for?

They're going to ask for old fan favorites like Ogres, Vrykul, High Elves, Forest Trolls, Wildhammers, Ethereals, etc. Players can't ask for something new that doesn't exist because we don't know what future Blizzard knows. But even of the already existing options throughout the years, there's been popular and unpopular (by unpopular I mean either had little or no interest that it was barely known to be a request aka like mechagnomes) race suggestions.

One thing is notable though, Elves have always been popular in WoW - hell in the entire fantasy genre. There's going to be another Elf type down the line, just like we see little drops from developers on Wildhammers possibly happening.

This entire topic isn't just for the course of BFA, but for WoW's lifetime overall. If someone doesn't give a shit or think they'll never happen in 10 years, that's cool. But I doubt the Nightborne and Void Elves are the last time we see Elves added as a playable race.

With all that out of the way, for your last bit about "only difference is eye color" note that Dark Iron were just grey/dark skinned dwarves with red color beards and red eyes - all those features were already on the dwarf customization. When an AR becomes playable they receive additional customization to make them stand out from the existing options - as we saw Dark Iron get actual fiery eyes, more charcoal-y skin tones, and fire-tinged beards/hair as well as them having different styles and accessories. No reason this can't be implemented to High Elves if they get implemented as an Allied Race.

Void Elf males have access to beard styles unavailable to Blood Elf males. Being a playable race means extra customization is already a given.

I doubt all those 3rd varients will be a thing. People think Blizzard will abuse the AR system to make every special snow flakes race a reality.

Who knows i could be wrong, but i seriously doubt it.

Also we only have two variants of human not 3. Using worgen as a human varient to further your argument is silly. Playable worgen are worgen. Changing to a human as an aesthetic bonus.

Also i know di dwarves just got their flame hair to further differentiate them from normal dwarves. Keep in mind that Di have always been a sub varient of dwarf so blizzard had more leverage to do that. In that sense, high elves are not a sub varient of thalasian elf. They're just two groups of people with opposing views. The whole eye color bs is not enough especially with the restoration of the sunwell as it is both holy and arcane.

[FlubberPuddy]

I doubt all those 3rd varients will be a thing. People think Blizzard will abuse the AR system to make every special snow flakes race a reality.

Who knows i could be wrong, but i seriously doubt it.

Also we only have two variants of human not 3. Using worgen as a human varient to further your argument is silly. Playable worgen are worgen. Changing to a human as an aesthetic bonus.

Also i know di dwarves just got their flame hair to further differentiate them from normal dwarves. Keep in mind that Di have always been a sub varient of dwarf so blizzard had more leverage to do that. In that sense, high elves are not a sub varient of thalasian elf. They're just two groups of people with opposing views. The whole eye color bs is not enough especially with the restoration of the sunwell as it is both holy and arcane.

Gilnean Worgen are still considered human as per Blizzard. If you wanna fight that fact you can go ahead, but that's per their decision. So yes the Alliance will soon have 3 playable Humans.

Also to say High Elves aren't a sub-variant of Thalassian Elf is a bit silly. Even more that your sentence following that says they're two groups.

I think you don't understand types and sub types necessarily. A Thalassian is a type of Elf. Even further, the sub-types of Thalassians are High Elves, Blood Elves, and Void Elves.

Just like Bronzebeard is a type of Dwarf. With further sub-types of Dwarf in Dark Irons, and Wildhammer. Thalassians just go further down vs the Dwarves.

If Blood Elves and High Elves were the same type then we'd see Blood Elf NPCs going around with the light blue hair and non-glowy eyes of High Elves. They're different types of Thalassian. The only way you get light blue hair is making a Death Knight, but every race gets unique DK hair that isn't available to the typical regular citizens of that race, therefore that would be a silly way to say it's available to Blood Elves as a whole. And a Blood Elf will never have non-glowy eyes, that's part of a Blood Elf.

[Strippling]

The horde will still be the horde and the alliance will still be the alliance if HE becomes playable through the allied race system, don't be so dense and dramatic, factions would still be the exact same they are now without having to carve into anything that has been already established, not only that, but expanding and adding even more.

Might as well make a subset human group join the Horde, a subset dwarf group and night elf group too. While we're at it let's make orcs join Alliance and undead too. According to your logic doing this will still be horde and alliance as two distinct factions.

Also, you have to be truly dishonest to use the "high elves are already playable" in this discussion and expect it to mean anything at all. It's an untrue statement, -nobody- refers to Blood elves as High elves away from pointing out the lore of them and you perfectly know that.

Despite that "high elfs are already playable" irks you, doesn't change the fact that it is true. Blood elfs are high elfs and so high elfs are playable. The alliance high elfs are not a different race to horde high elfs (blood elfs), and so reality is the high elven race is already playable.

I'm even gonna point out that they aren't an off-shoot of Blood elves but of a Thalassian society that doesn't exist anymore since the scourge simply fuck it up and then changed to what we know today.

Blood elfs are the Thalassian society of WoW. The society has changed due to the events of the scourge but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist anymore. High elven culture and life still lives on through the blood elfs who are the main high elven society. Any other high elfs out there (such as alliance aligned high elfs) are but an off-shoot of the main group.

Also, when you see High elves as Alliance military in the 7º legion you can't seriously state they lean more to the Kirin'tor, and that's just pointing out a single obvious thing that is common knowledge at this point, your behavior of "everything counts while it goes against what i don't like" is offensive for any good willing and honest participant of the discussion. It's an open insult with the clear intention of intentionally twisting shit all the time.

The only named high elf in the 7th legion that I know of is Vas the Unstable whose role in the 7th legion was "Ambassador of the Silver Covenant". And the Silver Covenant is a militant faction of the Kirin Tor. On top of that Vas is only featured in WotLK, which is fitting given that the Kirin Tor took the fight to the lich king by floating dalaran to Northrend and aiding the alliance with troops (such as high elfs of the Silver Covenant). Additionally, the only unnamed high elfs in the 7th legion I can think of are battle mages, who again only were around in WotLK where the Kirin Tor aided the Alliance with Silver Covenant troops. Let me know if I'm missing any other high elfs in the 7th legion who have showed up more recently.

Also, how many alliance high elfs have you seen in the Battle for Lordaeron, Battle for Dazaralor or War of thorns? I've seen a lot more void elfs than high elfs. I've also seen a lot more horde high elfs in these wars. Funny how the Kirin Tor want nothing to do with this war and coincidentally there are next to no "alliance high elfs" active in this war.

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You say this now, but what about when Wildhammers happen, or Forest Trolls, or any other 3rd iteration (we already have 3 diff human types - Stormwind, Gilnean, Kul'Tiran)?

None of those cross faction boundaries. An important, if not the most important, factor in this debate.

[FlubberPuddy]

None of those cross faction boundaries. An important, if not the most important, factor in this debate.

Neither do High Elves which are part of the Alliance. Even more legitimacy now that Void Elves are playable on Alliance. The crossing already happened.

[Varx]

Neither do High Elves which are part of the Alliance. Even more legitimacy now that Void Elves are playable on Alliance. The crossing already happened.

But the core thalasian model still belongs to the horde. If it happens again what would the horde get? Night elves with green eyes?? See yet another hole.

And undead elves dont work as they were all raised as dark rangers

[Strippling]

Neither do High Elves which are part of the Alliance. Even more legitimacy now that Void Elves are playable on Alliance. The crossing already happened.

High elfs are already playable on the Horde. They are a core Horde race. Alliance high elfs are not a core Alliance race.

[FlubberPuddy]

But the core thalasian model still belongs to the horde. If it happens again what would the horde get? Night elves with green eyes?? See yet another hole.

And undead elves dont work as they were all raised as dark rangers

It's not another hole, I don't see Vulpera, Ogre, San'Layn threads going out of their way to come up with an Alliance equivalent that suits their needs just as well. People are allowed to ask for what they want without having to deal with its consequences. Just like people are allowed to shun the option without having to deal with consequences.

When players make requests, that's all they need to do. Make the request. Not balance it against every thing that already exists. That's up to Blizzard.

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High elfs are already playable on the Horde. They are a core Horde race. Alliance high elfs are not a core Alliance race.

High Elves are on the Alliance, Blood Elves are on Horde. The existence of playable Blood Elves isn't negating the existence of unplayable High Elves on Alliance. Which is why there's a request in the first place.

[Varx]

It's not another hole, I don't see Vulpera, Ogre, San'Layn threads going out of their way to come up with an Alliance equivalent that suits their needs just as well. People are allowed to ask for what they want without having to deal with its consequences. Just like people are allowed to shun the option without having to deal with consequences.

When players make requests, that's all they need to do. Make the request. Not balance it against every thing that already exists. That's up to Blizzard.

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High Elves are on the Alliance, Blood Elves are on Horde. The existence of playable Blood Elves isn't negating the existence of unplayable High Elves on Alliance. Which is why there's a request in the first place.

Yes it is a big hole. You can't deny that there is always a delicate Balance when it comes to core aspects of the game. Now if there is such passion for the request of High Elves to the point of false hope/wishful thinking then there should be some kind of real attempt at coming up with its horde counterpart.

Now the Core Thalasian Elf is a Horde race which means having high elves would need a Night elf variant for the horde. So since the undead elves from darkshore are all Dark Rangers then that leaves us with jack shit.

Now you cant say that since velves are alliance then the alliance has access to the thalasian model. That is also BS since you can't make an AR from an AR, that's ridiculous. Every AR is linked to a core race, not an AR.

[Strippling]

It's not another hole, I don't see Vulpera, Ogre, San'Layn threads going out of their way to come up with an Alliance equivalent that suits their needs just as well. People are allowed to ask for what they want without having to deal with its consequences. Just like people are allowed to shun the option without having to deal with consequences.

When players make requests, that's all they need to do. Make the request. Not balance it against every thing that already exists. That's up to Blizzard.

And that's what Blizzard did, they introduced void elfs to balance the requests of both parties. Accept it and move on.

High Elves are on the Alliance, Blood Elves are on Horde. The existence of playable Blood Elves isn't negating the existence of unplayable High Elves on Alliance. Which is why there's a request in the first place.

High elfs are on the Horde.

[Hallowseve17]

I doubt all those 3rd varients will be a thing. People think Blizzard will abuse the AR system to make every special snow flakes race a reality.

Who knows i could be wrong, but i seriously doubt it.

Also we only have two variants of human not 3. Using worgen as a human varient to further your argument is silly. Playable worgen are worgen. Changing to a human as an aesthetic bonus.

Also i know di dwarves just got their flame hair to further differentiate them from normal dwarves. Keep in mind that Di have always been a sub varient of dwarf so blizzard had more leverage to do that. In that sense, high elves are not a sub varient of thalasian elf. They're just two groups of people with opposing views. The whole eye color bs is not enough especially with the restoration of the sunwell as it is both holy and arcane.

Whoa, bro! I have to pipe in here. 3rd variants SHOULD come and are welcomed with open arms. The community has asked for Wildhammer dwarves, broken draenei, taunka, and forest trolls for years. They aren't just any random race like kobolds or gnolls. Old allied races should be the priority, then give us the new ones. Blizzard should be giving us our already established allies before anything else.

[Strippling]

Whoa, bro! I have to pipe in here. 3rd variants SHOULD come and are welcomed with open arms. The community has asked for Wildhammer dwarves, broken draenei, taunka, and forest trolls for years. They aren't just any random race like kobolds or gnolls. Old allied races should be the priority, then give us the new ones. Blizzard should be giving us our already established allies before anything else.

Some players want old existing races to be allied races, some players want new and unique allied races (such as Vulpera, mechagnomes, etc). Blizz have already added some of these older races; such as Zandalari, Kul Tirans, DID, mag'har orcs. It's likely they'll focus next on new and unique races. I'm not saying one option is better than the other, I'm just saying they do have a playerbase they need to consider who don't want more trolls, dwarfs, elfs, etc...

Tuskarr (or possibly Vry'kul, though lore would need to be altered a bit) for Alliance and Ogres for Horde would be a good choice for 'older races'. IMO.

Mechagnomes for Alliance and Vulpera for Horde would be a good choice for 'new and unique races'. IMO.

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

High elfs are already playable on the Horde. They are a core Horde race. Alliance high elfs are not a core Alliance race.

Blood elves are playable on the Horde since TBC. And in the same TBC the few "new" High elves that showed up (after being stranded in Outlands for some), still belonged to the Alliance, even tough their homeland was no more.

If anything, HE are akin to revolutionary era diaspora russian or chinese, doing their best to preserve their culture while a dictatorship is busy remaking if not erasing their home country's culture.
To make a parallel, the chinese diaspora at the time even had more than a few chinatowns or city-states : the remnant/splinter ROC in Taiwan stayed until 1971 the internationally recognized China, and for many years had all the rights to lament/mock the mainland as the redguards were doing their best to destroy any relics of their civilization.
And even then, not having a homeland but being dedicated to preserving one's culture has allowed the Jews to endure as a people for almost 2 millennia in exile.

Hell, not even speaking of the previous Warcraft games, Vanilla had a substantial amount of Alliance aligned High-elven NPCs and settlements before there was any inkling of horde aligned Blood elves (aside from the neutral Bloodmages in blasted lands, the only BE were the universally hostile ones in Azshara).

[Aldo Hawk]

@Strippling You already had the answer for all the shit you asked and said, i'm not gonna bother anymore.

[FlubberPuddy]

Yes it is a big hole. You can't deny that there is always a delicate Balance when it comes to core aspects of the game. Now if there is such passion for the request of High Elves to the point of false hope/wishful thinking then there should be some kind of real attempt at coming up with its horde counterpart.

Now the Core Thalasian Elf is a Horde race which means having high elves would need a Night elf variant for the horde. So since the undead elves from darkshore are all Dark Rangers then that leaves us with jack shit.

Now you cant say that since velves are alliance then the alliance has access to the thalasian model. That is also BS since you can't make an AR from an AR, that's ridiculous. Every AR is linked to a core race, not an AR.

Again, my point is if the other race requests aren't doing it. Then High Elf requests aren't subject to it either. If you think they are then sure go ahead and believe it, but unless explicitly stated by the people in authority over such features (aka Blizzard) this isn't anything that has bearing outside of what someone wants to believe themselves.

As far as you're last portion, please show me evidence where you can't make an AR from another AR and that every AR has to be linked to a core race. Since I recall Blizzard explicitly stating this isn't a sub-race system and races aren't tied down to some "parent race". I assume to give them the flexibility they desire.

Also, dank post count.

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High elfs are on the Horde.

You can keep saying this all you want, I guess you should tell Blizzard they made a mistake and change everything that says "Blood Elf" to "High Elf"? I don't care what's on the Horde, there are to this day High Elves on the Alliance. Until Blizzard does the aforementioned, it just looks strange continuing to say this line.

[Varx]

Again, my point is if the other race requests aren't doing it. Then High Elf requests aren't subject to it either. If you think they are then sure go ahead and believe it, but unless explicitly stated by the people in authority over such features (aka Blizzard) this isn't anything that has bearing outside of what someone wants to believe themselves.

As far as you're last portion, please show me evidence where you can't make an AR from another AR and that every AR has to be linked to a core race. Since I recall Blizzard explicitly stating this isn't a sub-race system and races aren't tied down to some "parent race". I assume to give them the flexibility they desire.

Also, dank post count.

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I get that, but knowing how blizzard operates you should know that there would need to be a solid Horde counter part. And based on the current balance of racial options there would be nothing that would satisfy this, unless you know... Green eyed night elves.

I know there is no hard evidence for either way. However, you can use inductive reasoning on what we currently have and make safe assumption on how blizzard will handle the AR system. As of now every AR is based of a core race. Why would blizzard deviate from this and start making ARs out of ARs.

[delus]

Yes it is a big hole. You can't deny that there is always a delicate Balance when it comes to core aspects of the game. Now if there is such passion for the request of High Elves to the point of false hope/wishful thinking then there should be some kind of real attempt at coming up with its horde counterpart.

Now the Core Thalasian Elf is a Horde race which means having high elves would need a Night elf variant for the horde. So since the undead elves from darkshore are all Dark Rangers then that leaves us with jack shit.

Now you cant say that since velves are alliance then the alliance has access to the thalasian model. That is also BS since you can't make an AR from an AR, that's ridiculous. Every AR is linked to a core race, not an AR.

What? Aleria brought in the void elves so that theory doesn't make sense. There's no pattern to what allied races join. You don't have to have one race bring in an allied race, just a single character offer the quest to recruit them.

[Varx]

What? Aleria brought in the void elves so that theory doesn't make sense. There's no pattern to what allied races join. You don't have to have one race bring in an allied race, just a single character offer the quest to recruit them.

Huh??? This isn't about the lore figure who introduces them. It could be king mrggglrgglr for all we know. This is about the practicality behind Blizzard introducing them. Read carefully my dude...