1. #9081
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    You yourself do not like them. Why defend something you don't like? You only do that because you dislike high elves even more.
    Pure gloating as far as I can tell.

    But we'll see what races are coming for the rest of BFA (I'm pretty sure they'll be shown at Blizzcon if not data-mined beforehand), and then not 9.X but I expect to see more racial options or expanded race customization in 10.X.

    I believe in the pattern that they alternate each expansion with a race-class focus (at minimum one of either). Since BFA introduced Allied Races, Legion had DH, I expect 9.X to include some new class or be class focused, which means 10.X will be another race features expansion.

    This is all assuming they don't any more race options/customization in between the end of BFA to release of 10.X. If they do, then I'd consider those as bonuses.

    Once we see how Blizzard complete the current round of Allied Races, it'll give us a foundation on what sorts they may implement going forward. For instance if Vulpera are released, that means a "goblin variant" doesn't necessarily need to be an actual goblin, which opens up the races added to the AR pool.

  2. #9082
    Bloodsail Admiral Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    @Obelisk Kai If that comforts you, great, take the easy way.

    Void elves are Blood elves infused with void and Alliance sided, just that, assuming that it is enough to make them more suitable in order to prove a point is delusional.

    They did more damage to the Sin'dorei lore than a HE AR would have ever done, accepting that argument because they are purple and use a different kind of magic makes them a better choice is completely bonkers. Because what, Sin'dorei now bans certain magical studies and exiles researchers? is that something Sin'dorei would have ever done? Well then i'm expecting Warlock exiling too, they also use shadow magic!

    But of course, you will just say that devs selected them over HE, as if they were never wrong about anything at all.
    Last edited by Aldo Hawk; 2019-02-26 at 06:25 PM.

  3. #9083
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Yet Blood Elves are High Elves, so if they are purple Blood Elves they are also purple High Elves, and the Alliance has their High Elves except they happen to be purple.

    Basically, people cannot argue that Void Elves = Blood Elves but don't equal High Elves because it is confirmed that Blood Elves = High Elves.

    Now, I don't believe that Void Elves = High Elves. But that is because I don't believe Void Elves = Blood Elves. That is to diminish the transformation they have been through that has left them a race a part. Void Elves ARE their own thing now.
    Why there can't be all of them playable? I'd like to have two High Elf slots on each faction.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I must say that void elves made me feel sorry for high elf fans. They love blood elves, but they want them in their own faction, because they don't like Horde. I love void elves, but I want them in Horde, because I don't like Alliance.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  4. #9084
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    I don't like them because I wouldn't have given the Alliance any kind of thalassian elf. I'd have given the Alliance the Nightborne, said these are Night Elves with a High Elf like magic culture, and given the Horde Undead thalassian elves. But if the Alliance absolutely had to have some kind of thalassian elf, a Void Elf is close to what I would have devised.

    And of course every video about them ends up talking about Alliance High Elves. Everyone knows why Void Elves were added. You got Void Elves to give you something like a Blood Elf (and Blood Elves are High Elves so the terms are interchangeable) that had it's own unique flavour.

    In fact, I would argue Void Elves are a case of Blizzard listening to players, rather than not. They listened to the desire of some who wanted High Elves, but also the desires of others who were opposed on the grounds of faction diversity. It is hard to argue they don't listen when Void Elves represent a compromise between those two points of view.

    Or is there the presumption that when Alliance High Elves are discussed whether here, or on youtube, or on the official forums, the community staff at Blizzard ignored all the anti High Elf feedback and just sent through a pro High Elf narrative? That's a bit daft considering the rationale given by Ion for rejecting playable Alliance High Elves could have been written by any anti High Elfer.

    Face it, they heard your request and they heard our objections and they hashed out a middle ground. I'm not fond of it, but I tolerate it for the compromise it is. You don't like it, but it's not exactly what you wanted. But we know from census data that enough people liked it that Void Elves can be considered a success.

    Which means for a development team used to every single decision they make upsetting someone, it probably worked out.
    Oh, Kai, if only you were able to see how little sense your logic makes...

    First, the devs never, ever, said anything even close to "we designed void elves as a compromise to requests to high elves". Nope, an old interview with Shani Edwards and a very recent one with Steve Danuser has them saying the void elves were an attempt to create "something new", "something cool". At no point they threw any bone to the high elf fans.

    Second, if the devs made the void elves as compromise, then it flat out failed spectacularly. A successful compromise would mean the high elf requests would die out, or at least get less noticiable. Instead, the opposite happened: high elf requests exploded and keep appearing spontaneously everywhere. "A loud minority", you'll say, but even in the forum blues aknowledged it as a valid request supported by a lot of people when some anti-helfers tried to force them into shut down our thread.

    If the requests for high elves gained momentum, this means void elves did not work as a compromise. In that regard, they were a complete failure.

    No, you are the one that needs to "face it": they didn't heard our request. They may have heard the noise, but came with the worst solution possible, if void elves were even made with that in mind. It's such a huge failure that even Ion never said: "Look, guys, void elves were made with that in mind". In the same interview he said the infamous "high elves are pretty much blood elves" he also let out that they are not planned "for now" and that anything is possible in the future. That's not a developer sticking to his guns, it's a developer trying to back down from the controversy.

    Whatever the case, we won't shut up. I've left the fight in the barren wasteland that is MMO-C forums and went to where it really matters: the official forums. If Blizzard thinks the void elves were a compromise, then all if has to do is go to the thread there and say it so plain and clear to our face.
    Whatever...

  5. #9085
    Bloodsail Admiral Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    Why there can't be all of them playable? I'd like to have two High Elf slots on each faction.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I must say that void elves made me feel sorry for high elf fans. They love blood elves, but they want them in their own faction, because they don't like Horde. I love void elves, but I want them in Horde, because I don't like Alliance.
    Well, is not that simple, they are requesting for it because it's part of their faction, not just because Blood elves are not in the alliance.

    Also, i feel Void elves would have made more sense in the horde, studying the void in order to get knowledge on how to protect the sunwell against this power, this narrative of Sin'dorei banning researching about certain magic and exiling the researchers is very out of character.

    But the damage is done, what else can i say...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    (and Blood Elves are High Elves so the terms are interchangeable)
    Those Blood elves from the Silver Covenant are such jerks am i right?

    And don't let me start on those Blood elves from the Allerian expedition, heh.

  6. #9086
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    @Obelisk Kai If that comforts you, great, take the easy way.

    Void elves are Blood elves infused with void and Alliance sided, just that, assuming that it is enough to make them more suitable in order to prove a point is delusional.

    They did more damage to the Sin'dorei lore than a HE AR would have ever done, accepting that argument because they are purple and use a different kind of magic makes them a better choice is completely bonkers. Because what, Sin'dorei now bans certain magical studies and exiles researchers? is that something Sin'dorei would have ever done? Well then i'm expecting Warlock exiling too, they also use shadow magic!

    But of course, you will just say that devs selected them over HE, as if they were never wrong about anything at all.
    I placed emphasis on your quote on your use of the word 'transform', which is the critical point. Blood Elves transformed by the void. As Void Elves, they are just about enough not to damage Blood Elves.

    As for your contention that Void Elves did more damage to the Blood Elves, absolute nonsense...although I do thank you for the implicit admission on your part that an Alliance High Elf race WOULD do damage to the Blood Elves. Makes a change from pro High Elfers arrogantly disregarding what those of us opposed say and falsely claiming 'what we want wouldn't hurt anyone!'.

    If Void Elves do any damage now, it is to themselves and themselves alone because as you helpfully pointed, they aren't Blood/High Elves anymore. They were


    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    Transformed by the void.
    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    Why there can't be all of them playable? I'd like to have two High Elf slots on each faction.

    I must say that void elves made me feel sorry for high elf fans. They love blood elves, but they want them in their own faction, because they don't like Horde. I love void elves, but I want them in Horde, because I don't like Alliance.
    I like Draenei too but faction choice has consequences.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    Oh, Kai, if only you were able to see how little sense your logic makes...

    First, the devs never, ever, said anything even close to "we designed void elves as a compromise to requests to high elves". Nope, an old interview with Shani Edwards and a very recent one with Steve Danuser has them saying the void elves were an attempt to create "something new", "something cool". At no point they threw any bone to the high elf fans.
    Yeah. Pull the other one. These races weren't designed in a vacuum and for them to have been unaware of the demand for Alliance High Elves means that they weren't reading the forums and all your activity in the years prior to the unveiling of the Allied race system wasn't registering. As you've been at this topic as long as I have, I find that idea more than a little funny. Whilst a humorous thought, it isn't true. They were well aware of the demand. They have always been aware of the demand.

    We KNOW Alliance High Elves were considered for two reasons. Firstly, in the video I linked to you, Ion specifically mentioned them as a candidate for the sub-race system they were thinking about that ultimately became the Allied race system. Secondly, the question from last year's April Q and A was phrased precisely as follows

    "When deciding on Allied Race, why did you choose Void Elves when High Elves seemed much more of an organic (and popular) choice"?

    Leading phrasing aside, the question's context invited a response predicated on 'why did you choose Void Elves over High Elves' and Ion obliged, spelling out the many reasons Alliance High Elves just don't work. Reasons he had given a few months previously when asked at Blizzcon 2017.

    If we are to believe your version of events, the sole reason Void Elves were added was because they were an attempt to create something new and cool. The problem with your approach of course is that you treat these as mutually exclusive, that they were something new and cool or that they were a replacement for the Alliance High Elves.

    It was both. Once they realised they couldn't add High Elves, due to them being playable as a Horde race, they set out to create a new and cool variant as a compromise.

    Anyone who seriously believes Void Elves were an idea conceived with zero reference to the desire for Alliance High Elves is practising denial of the blatantly obvious.

    Maybe it's because you cannot bear to face that truth that for a period of time, the developers actively considered your request for Alliance High Elves, could have been a few minutes, a few hours, a few days. But for a period of time it was a live possibility. And then in the end, someone said 'no' and that was that.


    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    Second, if the devs made the void elves as compromise, then it flat out failed spectacularly. A successful compromise would mean the high elf requests would die out, or at least get less noticiable. Instead, the opposite happened: high elf requests exploded and keep appearing spontaneously everywhere. "A loud minority", you'll say, but even in the forum blues acknowledged it as a valid request supported by a lot of people when some anti-helfers tried to force them into shut down our thread.
    High Elf requests exploded? Please contain yourself. The discord has a few hundred members. The petition has a few hundred signatories. And the only reason the threads on the official forums remain active is because, as here, the same usual suspects keep the circular debate going. Yours is not a mass movement. Yours is a very loud one. So yes, a loud minority. As for the forum blues, community management should not be confused with developer opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    If the requests for high elves gained momentum, this means void elves did not work as a compromise. In that regard, they were a complete failure.
    Since when is a compromise intended to satisfy everyone? This is an MMO with a few million players, you cannot satisfy them all and no decision Blizzard has ever made has ever satisfied everyone. And since when does the pro High Elf community get a veto? Void Elves weren't what you wanted, that's tough, but they are also the most popular Allied race and a success when compared to all the other options. But the hardcore High Elf community weren't happy at not getting exactly High Elves? I am sure they were just STUNNED to learn that was the reaction.


    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    No, you are the one that needs to "face it": they didn't heard our request. They may have heard the noise, but came with the worst solution possible, if void elves were even made with that in mind. It's such a huge failure that even Ion never said: "Look, guys, void elves were made with that in mind". In the same interview he said the infamous "high elves are pretty much blood elves" he also let out that they are not planned "for now" and that anything is possible in the future. That's not a developer sticking to his guns, it's a developer trying to back down from the controversy.
    Of course they heard your request. Stop grasping this infantile fantasy that they somehow missed it. If you don't want to accept Void Elves as the compromise they intended in lieu of actual High Elves, then the answer is 'No'. Stated loudly and clearly through action and word.

    And yes, the "for now" line. The sad hope he left you with because the man is a lawyer and knows that they need a get out clause if at some point WAAAAY down the line someone (not him) changes their mind. Last thing they want is to hand someone a rhetorical hammer 'You said never to X...but you also said never to High Elves...so we want X!'.

    Also If he was backing down from a controversy he made a damn poor show of it. I mean after six months of arguments on the forums since what he said at Blizzcon 2017, he then 'backs away from the controversy' by repeating himself except this time with added snark.

    Ya. Stellar logic there.


    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    Whatever the case, we won't shut up. I've left the fight in the barren wasteland that is MMO-C forums and went to where it really matters: the official forums. If Blizzard thinks the void elves were a compromise, then all if has to do is go to the thread there and say it so plain and clear to our face.
    Why bother. Issue is sorted. Void Elves are in the Alliance, most popular Allied race and is successful. And there are plenty of other issues facing the game right now that need developer attention rather than pandering to the neurosis of a small group who after fifteen years are seemingly incapable of taking the hint.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post

    Those Blood elves from the Silver Covenant are such jerks am i right?

    And don't let me start on those Blood elves from the Allerian expedition, heh.D
    Yeah, thing is, that's a political choice. The sole difference between the two groups. The sole difference I have acknowledged. The sole difference you reached for here.

    So again, you agree with me.
    Last edited by Obelisk Kai; 2019-02-26 at 11:06 PM.

  7. #9087
    Bloodsail Admiral Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    @Obelisk Kai

    "They did more damage to the Sin'dorei lore than a HE AR would have ever done"

    Would have ever done.

    Would, have, ever, done.

    You just interpreted it the way you liked, your own fault.

    Also, if you want to play tennis with me at least try to use a ball that isn't made of straw, if you know what i mean.

    Void elves are Void Blood elves, Void infused Sin'dorei, call it what you want, but face it, they just painted the thalassian model and made minor tweaks alongside new hairstyles. Also it's lore damages the Blood elves since the VE inception came from Blood elves acting completely out of character, and now the wow devs have to stick with that for the times to come. What is nonsense is that now Sin'dorei bans and exiles researches of magical forces because they fear it. Where did the rational and magically invested Thalassian society went? Oh i know, they went to the Ren'dorei.

    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Yeah, thing is, that's a political choice. The sole difference between the two groups. The sole difference I have acknowledged. The sole difference you reached for here.

    So again, you agree with me.
    More strawmans Obelisk? Really? More? The horses are starving!

    If you honestly believe that an ironic response about the argument that High elves can be called Blood elves without anything going out of it's way is in some way an agreement with the nonsensical quotation previously made, i could not help but to think that you have completely missed the point about the matter (purposefully of course), or that you have completely gave up in order to deviate the argument away.

  8. #9088
    Alliance are never getting straight-up, traditional High Elves. They got Void Elves. Make your Void Elf pale, dress it like a High Elf, and it'll all work out fine.

  9. #9089
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Why bother. Issue is sorted.
    As long as we do not give up, the issue is not sorted.
    Whatever...

  10. #9090
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    @Obelisk Kai

    "They did more damage to the Sin'dorei lore than a HE AR would have ever done"

    Would have ever done.

    Would, have, ever, done.

    You just interpreted it the way you liked, your own fault.
    I am not quite certain what point you are trying to make here. Using the phrase 'would have ever done' is used to draw a comparison between something that actually happened and what might have happened, which implies 'some' damage and is therefore an implicit admission that the concept of Alliance High Elves as an AR does damage the Blood Elves.

    If what you intended to say was that Void Elves did damage to Blood Elf lore but that High Elves as an AR would have done none, why didn't you just say that? So I interpreted it as everyone would have interpreted it and trying to walk back what you said by attempting to obfuscate what you wrote only leads to confusion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    Void elves are Void Blood elves, Void infused Sin'dorei, call it what you want, but face it, they just painted the thalassian model and made minor tweaks alongside new hairstyles. Also it's lore damages the Blood elves since the VE inception came from Blood elves acting completely out of character, and now the wow devs have to stick with that for the times to come. What is nonsense is that now Sin'dorei bans and exiles researches of magical forces because they fear it. Where did the rational and magically invested Thalassian society went? Oh i know, they went to the Ren'dorei.
    Yes, that is what a Void Elf is. And? There is a degree of difference between Blood/High Elves and Void Elves as a result. Which is the point.

    As for damaging the lore, how? Blizzard has established the Sunwell is a font of light energy since the Burning Crusade. Blizzard has established all thalassian Elves require the Sunwell to live since Warcraft 3. Blizzard has established that the light and shadow are diametrically opposed forces within the Warcraft cosmology for years, formalised in the great chart listing the spheres of magic.

    That Blood Elves are reckless and pushing the bounds of magic is a characteristic of the race. But it is a position with no nuance to claim that the only way the Blood Elves can behave was to ignore their self interest and pursue shadow magic as far as they could.

    Firstly, there is precedent. The Blood Elves did not use fel magic as a substitute for their addiction, those that did became felblood Elves. The reason the Blood Elves didn't directly imbibe fel energy was they were aware of the consequences, even if they used fel magic indirectly. By your logic, the Blood Elves should have gone all in on fel magic because their recklessness with magic should have overridden their common sense.

    Secondly, they have common sense. They will push the boundaries further than almost any other race on Azeroth, but most of them aren't stupid. And to think that they wouldn't endanger the Sunwell they need to live by banning deep research into the shadow and the void because it goes against their character is daft. After everything they went through, the preservation of the Sunwell is their overriding priority.

    Thirdly, the Void Elf group and those Blood/High Elves who are now following in the path of becoming Void Elves clearly show that some Thalassians do think the way you suggest all of them should, that no avenue of magic should be closed off to them. Given the experiences during both the Void Elf and Nightborne introductory scenarios however, it is clear that Rommath is right for being cautious given the well established in lore threat the Void Elves would pose to Quel'thalas.

    All in all, your arguments for why the Void Elves 'damage' Blood Elves are nonsensical, with the behaviour of both groups and their attitudes reflective of long developed storylines.

    Frankly it feels like more sour grapes, still upset Void Elves replaced Alliance High Elves and determined to paint Void Elves as failures on every level because of what they weren't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    More strawmans Obelisk? Really? More? The horses are starving!

    If you honestly believe that an ironic response about the argument that High elves can be called Blood elves without anything going out of it's way is in some way an agreement with the nonsensical quotation previously made, i could not help but to think that you have completely missed the point about the matter (purposefully of course), or that you have completely gave up in order to deviate the argument away.
    Nope, the only thing you can cite in opposition to 'Blood Elves are High Elves' is the political affiliation of those Alliance High Elves. I have always said the sole difference between the two groups is that affiliation, and that it is nowhere near enough to justify a separate AR.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    As long as we do not give up, the issue is not sorted.
    No, the issue is sorted. You can never satisfy one hundred percent of a group with a solution, but that does not mean the issue is any less solved. You and the rest of your group happen to be in the group who aren't happy about the solution.

    You do not have a veto.

    The rest of the hardcore Alliance High Elf fans do not have a veto.

    Void Elves do not require your stamp of approval to be the Alliance's thalassian Elves. If they don't satisfy you and you want to play an OG thalassian Elf, the Horde is waiting for you.

    If you can't stomach the Horde and want to play a thalassian Elf, the Void Elf variant is there for you. You can even roleplay as a Silver Covenant Elf who embraced the Void, since Moorgard confirmed the Void Elves are expanding their numbers due to other Elves seeking them out.

    If you want to play an OG thalassian elf on the side of the Alliance...you're out of luck.
    Last edited by Obelisk Kai; 2019-02-27 at 12:05 PM.

  11. #9091
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    No, the issue is sorted. You can never satisfy one hundred percent of a group with a solution, but that does not mean the issue is any less solved. You and the rest of your group happen to be in the group who aren't happy about the solution.

    You do not have a veto.

    The rest of the hardcore Alliance High Elf fans do not have a veto.

    Void Elves do not require your stamp of approval to be the Alliance's thalassian Elves. If they don't satisfy you and you want to play an OG thalassian Elf, the Horde is waiting for you.

    If you can't stomach the Horde and want to play a thalassian Elf, the Void Elf variant is there for you. You can even roleplay as a Silver Covenant Elf who embraced the Void, since Moorgard confirmed the Void Elves are expanding their numbers due to other Elves seeking them out.

    If you want to play an OG thalassian elf on the side of the Alliance...you're out of luck.
    You say this last part with a sense of finality, yet we know from this interview: https://www.wowhead.com/news=288498/...ns-flying-in-n

    About character customizations, can we expect more of them?

    JF: We're definitely looking for more ideas from the community. I know that there are particular groups of Dwarves that really wanna be a Wildhammer member and have all those awesome tattoos, and these ideas ultimately result in us having very nerdy conversations on the whiteboard talking about "oh this is a great idea!", so please, keep shoving those ideas at us, we love hearing them!
    And while it is in regards to character customization, remember that they consider Golden Eyes on Blood Elves and Night Warrior Eyes to be considered part of the "Allied race system".

    With Alex Afrasiabi around the same time also saying that High Elf customization could come to Void Elves (and encouraging its discussion), I'm not so sure the request is a done deal so not sure why you're speaking as if it is.

    That we know they're aware of Wildhammer fans and the response wasn't "well there's Dark Iron now and Bronzebeards so tough luck" means in the future there's the possibility of having more than two variations of playable race options. How that is achieved is what's up in the air, not whether it can be achieved.

  12. #9092
    Herald of the Titans Amaterasu65's Avatar
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    There will be High Elves, either as a new AR or customization for VE. Money for RChange will be appreciated along with some people switching from Horde for them.

  13. #9093
    I am Murloc! FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Let's throw in some recent artwork I saw too cuz it's been a while :P I'll just give the link since it's pretty NSFW (because it's gory, not due to a sexual nature):

    https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...eres_the_more/

    "Inspired by the recent growing desire for playable High Elves for the Alliance, I drew this to show my support for that cause. If they ever do become playable, my only request is to make them more muscular compared to the skinnier playable elves we got in-game." - Shinda292 (the artist)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Amaterasu65 View Post
    There will be High Elves, either as a new AR or customization for VE. Money for RChange will be appreciated along with some people switching from Horde for them.
    As a financial decision, it's the easiest "yes" ever. Blizzard doesn't get extra money from putting extra customization onto already existing races (see green orc posture, BE gold eyes, Night elf NW eyes) and I don't see the mounds of players who weren't already playing BEs or NEs or Orcs deciding to race change their characters into these who already got extra customizations added to them.

    I don't think it was ever a money decision though, as I've said many times before, it's more due to Void Elves having just released, so scheduling wise the Alliance aren't going to see more Elf stuff anytime soon.

  14. #9094
    Herald of the Titans Amaterasu65's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    As a financial decision, it's the easiest "yes" ever. Blizzard doesn't get extra money from putting extra customization onto already existing races (see green orc posture, BE gold eyes, Night elf NW eyes) and I don't see the mounds of players who weren't already playing BEs or NEs or Orcs deciding to race change their characters into these who already got extra customizations added to them.

    I don't think it was ever a money decision though, as I've said many times before, it's more due to Void Elves having just released, so scheduling wise the Alliance aren't going to see more Elf stuff anytime soon.
    Yeah, maybe as a selling point for the new expansion.

  15. #9095
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amaterasu65 View Post
    There will be High Elves, either as a new AR or customization for VE. Money for RChange will be appreciated along with some people switching from Horde for them.
    The 'they'll definitely do it for the money' excuse is just another false hope propagated by the pro High Elf community and it's one I've seen bandied about for years now. Activision Blizzard has proven extremely resistant to this mythical pot of money that's just there for them to take apparently.

    What's your evidence? A feeling in your water? Some kind of mystical sixth sense? A sense that since they are such corporate shills that they'll do it for a couple of extra quid because they'll do anything?

    Answer this then. If money was the motivating factor, why not just give the Alliance High Elves and be done with it? Why go to the bother of creating Void Elves?

    I'll tell you why. Because either the amount of money they'd make isn't as much as you think they'd make, because the damage they feel it would do to the game isn't worth it (proving that some spark of artistry remains which we should be grateful for, I am not sure how hoping Blizzard really are money grubbing shills is a good thing) or because they feel Void Elves allow them to maintain the integrity of the games whilst getting most of that money.

    It's likeliest to be the third option by the way. Having their cake and eating it.

  16. #9096
    I am Murloc! FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    A sense that since they are such corporate shills that they'll do it for a couple of extra quid because they'll do anything?
    You ask this in the wake of them letting go of a bunch of their employees because their overall profits have been decreasing? really now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Answer this then. If money was the motivating factor, why not just give the Alliance High Elves and be done with it? Why go to the bother of creating Void Elves?
    It's simple economics and one other companies have used for a long time that it shouldn't come as a surprise honestly: Release something similar to what's actually wanted so you see who bites first, then release the actual thing people wanted. Double profits and even more if the early buys also buy into the later product.

    Apple for instance has been doing this with their phones for a while now: release the 1st iteration, then release a 2nd "improved" iteration the following year and have people double dip.

    For game development, it's not unheard of for companies to release a side game to a franchise to gauge interest in that franchise: See games like Nosgoth to gauge interest in Legacy of Kain franchise, or a really great example is the Kingdom Hearts franchise (how many people have been waiting over a decade for KH3 to release? and in the meantime they've released like 6 or so games on various platforms which were purchased and played by fans of the franchise until finally releasing KH3).

    The KH example is a huge one as it's the exact example of showing that a company makes more money in the long-term by teasing out the wait rather than blowing their load immediately

  17. #9097
    Bloodsail Admiral Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    I am not quite certain what point you are trying to make here. Using the phrase 'would have ever done' is used to draw a comparison between something that actually happened and what might have happened, which implies 'some' damage and is therefore an implicit admission that the concept of Alliance High Elves as an AR does damage the Blood Elves.

    If what you intended to say was that Void Elves did damage to Blood Elf lore but that High Elves as an AR would have done none, why didn't you just say that? So I interpreted it as everyone would have interpreted it and trying to walk back what you said by attempting to obfuscate what you wrote only leads to confusion.
    Yeah, my bad, i confused words and would is the past tense of will, i truly meant could. More damage that those could have ever done. But even, the meaning didn't changed that much to understand the message with a bit of good will.



    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Yes, that is what a Void Elf is. And? There is a degree of difference between Blood/High Elves and Void Elves as a result. Which is the point.
    The point is Void elves are not more than Blood elves highly using void magic, that's their special thing. Assuming that because VE are purple they don't damage the Blood elves is denial, it's very inception damaged the Blood elf lore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    As for damaging the lore, how? Blizzard has established the Sunwell is a font of light energy since the Burning Crusade. Blizzard has established all thalassian Elves require the Sunwell to live since Warcraft 3. Blizzard has established that the light and shadow are diametrically opposed forces within the Warcraft cosmology for years, formalised in the great chart listing the spheres of magic.
    Thalassian elves don't -need- the Sunwell to live, it's an addiction, not a necessity, they can overcome it and live without tapping magic, they aren't like the pre-Arcan'dor Nightborne.

    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    That Blood Elves are reckless and pushing the bounds of magic is a characteristic of the race. But it is a position with no nuance to claim that the only way the Blood Elves can behave was to ignore their self interest and pursue shadow magic as far as they could.
    In the magical society of Quel'thalas, learning and understanding about Void magic would had been praised and encouraged, even more having into account that their power source contains holy light and knowing that it interacts in a volatile way with the void.

    Banning and exiling researchers is completely out of character for Sin'dorei.

    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Firstly, there is precedent. The Blood Elves did not use fel magic as a substitute for their addiction, those that did became felblood Elves. The reason the Blood Elves didn't directly imbibe fel energy was they were aware of the consequences, even if they used fel magic indirectly. By your logic, the Blood Elves should have gone all in on fel magic because their recklessness with magic should have overridden their common sense.
    Some Blood elves did siphoned Fel to get a fix from time to time, and getting a fix do not turn you into a felblood elf, in order to turn into a felblood elf you have to drink demon blood and/or expose to high quantities of Fel energy, which is a completely different thing.

    And no, that's not my logic, you are again making another strawman. In the Thalassian society magic is an everyday thing where everyone gets basic instruction about the matter and the most dedicated students learn fondly about different kinds of magical forces, some learn about even more than one. Hell, there is magic about using blood and Sin'dorei practitioners that you can find in the Blasted lands. In no means investing in the discovering of a magical force means Sin'dorei will definitely change their society based on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Secondly, they have common sense. They will push the boundaries further than almost any other race on Azeroth, but most of them aren't stupid. And to think that they wouldn't endanger the Sunwell they need to live by banning deep research into the shadow and the void because it goes against their character is daft. After everything they went through, the preservation of the Sunwell is their overriding priority.
    Again, they don't -need- it to live, they will not wither out and become dust if Blizzard decides to pull out the Sunwell's plug.

    It's -completely- out of character for them to ban a research about a magical force that reacts like that with the Sunwell instead of learning more about it in order to know better how to protect their power source from something like that, the stupid thing was to exile Umbric and his students.

    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Thirdly, the Void Elf group and those Blood/High Elves who are now following in the path of becoming Void Elves clearly show that some Thalassians do think the way you suggest all of them should, that no avenue of magic should be closed off to them. Given the experiences during both the Void Elf and Nightborne introductory scenarios however, it is clear that Rommath is right for being cautious given the well established in lore threat the Void Elves would pose to Quel'thalas.
    Oh right, now it's something that i suggested instead of a well know established behavior of the Sin'dorei, what a twist huh?

    If you want to pretend that the exile of Umbric and his followers successfully protected the Sunwell, you cannot be more wrong, if the Sin'dorei already knew what the void would have caused when Alleria went there, they would had not permitted such proximity. But how not, the only one speaking out about the dangers of Alleria's visit was Rommath, the one who banned knowledge about the void and expected others to be aware.

    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    All in all, your arguments for why the Void Elves 'damage' Blood Elves are nonsensical, with the behaviour of both groups and their attitudes reflective of long developed storylines.
    What long developed storyline, the Ren'dorei one? With what we have about them a pocket book of 20 pages can be filled being generous. And taking into account that the Void elf introduction came with a retcon on Blood elf characterization i would be more aware of what i call nonsensical if i were you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Frankly it feels like more sour grapes, still upset Void Elves replaced Alliance High Elves and determined to paint Void Elves as failures on every level because of what they weren't.
    If you don't want to accept that the only success of Void elves is their popularity that's your own problem.

    You already know why Void elves are a failure, if you want to play Devil's advocate in order to go against the HE request i'm not gonna follow that nonsense and i suggest the same to anyone else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Nope, the only thing you can cite in opposition to 'Blood Elves are High Elves' is the political affiliation of those Alliance High Elves. I have always said the sole difference between the two groups is that affiliation, and that it is nowhere near enough to justify a separate AR.
    Opposition that Blood elves are High elves?

    I'm gonna take the bothering to answer this utter stupidity the most clear, short, and explanatory way i can:

    High elf and Blood elf is not an interchangeable term, Silver Covenant elves are not called Blood elves for a reason, while Blood elves can be called High elves, it's not a common thing to do but they are.

    Asking for High elves is asking for a lore supported character option to be played on the alliance, not any invent pulled out of thin air.

  18. #9098
    Herald of the Titans Amaterasu65's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    The 'they'll definitely do it for the money' excuse is just another false hope propagated by the pro High Elf community and it's one I've seen bandied about for years now. Activision Blizzard has proven extremely resistant to this mythical pot of money that's just there for them to take apparently.

    What's your evidence? A feeling in your water? Some kind of mystical sixth sense? A sense that since they are such corporate shills that they'll do it for a couple of extra quid because they'll do anything?

    Answer this then. If money was the motivating factor, why not just give the Alliance High Elves and be done with it? Why go to the bother of creating Void Elves?

    I'll tell you why. Because either the amount of money they'd make isn't as much as you think they'd make, because the damage they feel it would do to the game isn't worth it (proving that some spark of artistry remains which we should be grateful for, I am not sure how hoping Blizzard really are money grubbing shills is a good thing) or because they feel Void Elves allow them to maintain the integrity of the games whilst getting most of that money.

    It's likeliest to be the third option by the way. Having their cake and eating it.
    First of all, you reaaaaaally need to calm down as you seem too fanatic against the whole idea. It's still a video game cosmetic addition. This isn't a false hope, Blizzard said they intend to consider High Elf appearance at least for VE. Ion said there wouldn't be HE at all but we've already seen more diplomatic responses from Blizzard.

  19. #9099
    Reminder that High Elves are already in the game, they're called Blood Elves now and live in Silvermoon City, per Chronicle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGravemind View Post
    If I was in his boots (and forced to join the SS in 1939 or whenever he joined), I would have tried to liberate the camp myself or die trying. He did not. He traded his life for the life of thousands of people, thus he should face the consequences
    Quote Originally Posted by Proberly View Post
    Oh would you now? It truly is amazing how many heroic people we have wasting their time on internet.

  20. #9100
    Bloodsail Admiral Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Priestiality View Post
    Reminder that High Elves are already in the game, they're called Blood Elves now and live in Silvermoon City, per Chronicle.
    I don't see High elves in the race or Allied race section for the Alliance, what are you talking about? are you drunk? are you on something bad?

    Someone please call the emergency services!

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