Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[RobertMugabe]

Void Elfs are way cooler and better than Blood Elfs and High Elfs, that's a fact. Deal with it.

[matrix123mko]

Is Vareesa the Warcraft equivalent of a holocaust denier?

"The Sunwell never happened, a human prince never defiled our lands and killed my sister while the human kingdoms sat around and watched, for the alliance."

I wouldn't blame Lordaeron for that, though. They were already dead and Arthas was usurper whom they banished.

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What is that, an Alinsky-ism? Accuse others of what you are doing?

It's the Blood Elf leadership who deny the zombie holocaust, blame it on the living of another kingdom, and even ally with the zombies.

Zombies they allied were victims of said holocaust. Blood Elves stay loyal to their human allies even in (un)death while High Elves live up to some weird ideology that Stormwind, the only kingdom which ignored the Scourge is their staunch ally.

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Void Elfs are way cooler and better than Blood Elfs and High Elfs, that's a fact. Deal with it.

Blood Elves can get cooler if they will get some story again, but I agree that Void Elves are awesome.

[FlubberPuddy]

I think the problem is not that blood elves are too popular, but that Blizzard just doesn't make the other races as interesting. However, with Zandalari trolls, nightborne (which could be way more popular if their model got some more attention) and even straight-back orcs, it seems people finally have cool choices other than elves.

Let's imagine for instance that Blizzard releases a Tinker class for next expansion, and only some less-played races can be it: dwarves, gnomes, lightforged draenei, goblins, undead, dark iron dwarves, vulpera, mag'har orcs, whatever. No night elves, blood elves, humans... You'll naturally see those populations rising.

You hit the nail on the head with a lot of this post. It's making other options more appealing. Those who call Zandalari "lul just NE trolls" and are really into monstrous options are the vocal minority. Majority of people will always want to play something attractive/appealing in the conventional sense and not just look for the only subverted options available.

You can tell this by following the vocal minority fuss over Orcs getting straight back options, how for years it was known as a popular option and those who wanted it were presented with "if you want to play straight backed characters - join the Alliance" and other various things said to admonish those who clearly loved being an Orc - just a different kind. And those "no" responses would appear to be the majority if one looked on various forums.

Then when it became a real possibility because Blizzard said they're going to do it - suddenly the vast majority of responses found online were cheering in gratefulness and the "no straight backs" crowd were truly seen for what they always were - a vocal minority.

Blizzard needs to continue to make other options on the Horde more appealing if they truly don't want Blood Elves to be so massively picked. The idea of a new class going to unpopular races would definitely help with that.

Void Elfs are way cooler and better than Blood Elfs and High Elfs, that's a fact. Deal with it.

Sure

Zombies they allied were victims of said holocaust. Blood Elves stay loyal to their human allies even in (un)death while High Elves live up to some weird ideology that Stormwind, the only kingdom which ignored the Scourge is their staunch ally.

Hm, you're right. Blood Elves did stay loyal with their human allies, just in a different sense.

This is actually funny to think about now after those frequent belligerent posts by Arrashi and that GoT Ramsey profile dude who would make fun of High Elves for being "human lovers".

[Garfurion]

I would say that Stormwind betrayed all other kingdoms. Lordaeron, Quel'thalas, Dalaran and Stromgarde(by itself) have fallen before Varian acted. He was too busy mourning his wife while all other kingdoms(we don't know how did it look like in Kul Tiras) were fighting for their lifes.

Why should any one have helped Quel'Thalas against the Scourge? Quel'Thalas made it clear enough after the second war they didn't want to have anything to do with the rest of the Alliance and only offered a small token force in during the war because of Lothar.

As for Stormwinds limited capability to aid Lordaeron you just have to look at the map, they are not really neighboring nations.

Of course if Stormwind should have prevented the demise of Lordaeron and Quel'Thalas...then why didn't those nations prevent Stormwind from being destroyed in the first war ?

[DeicideUH]

Majority of people will always want to play something attractive/appealing in the conventional sense and not just look for the only subverted options available.

I don't think it's about just playing a pretty race, but rather to look cool. You can have a monstrous race, but it will be more successful if it looks cool than just ugly. Straightened orcs look way better than hunchback orcs.

Blizzard needs to look into the "ugly" races and search ways to make them more appealing. Give them choices. Imagine making a troll cusomization choice between being thin like they are now and muscular like a forest troll. Beefier trolls look better than scrawny trolls.

Adding things like facial hair for undead or tatoos for trolls/orcs could also lead to those races becoming more appealing.

There's so much Blizzard could do to balance population.

[Aldo Hawk]

I don't think it's about just playing a pretty race, but rather to look cool. You can have a monstrous race, but it will be more successful if it looks cool than just ugly. Straightened orcs look way better than hunchback orcs.

Blizzard needs to look into the "ugly" races and search ways to make them more appealing. Give them choices. Imagine making a troll cusomization choice between being thin like they are now and muscular like a forest troll. Beefier trolls look better than scrawny trolls.

Adding things like facial hair for undead or tatoos for trolls/orcs could also lead to those races becoming more appealing.

There's so much Blizzard could do to balance population.

Yeah, doubling down on race fantasy helps a lot.

Just imagine if Gnomes had mechanical extremities, it would be cool!

Or Goblins with noticeable jewelry on them.

Human faces that match dark skin, because sincerely, i tried to make a black man and i couldn't because the faces do not match, it looked as a heavily tanned Norwegian or something XD. And asian faces. It would be cool, humanity should be represented better in wow as a whole. I remember seeing an asian dude in the wow movie and though: I didn't remember that, they should add that to humans! (Humans are already appealing and popular, but i think they should have things like this).

Body customization for Forsaken. With the ability to hide everything except pants they could have cool body implants as iron enforcers for the bones and nails, lots of nails and things that make them appear as "repaired", "enhanced" or something like that. Oh, and seams, of course.

Tauren with tribal trinkets on their horns, ears, beard, the nose ring, maybe the tail, that uses the new physics like the Nightborne heritage armor belt, the Island expedition fish or any piece of hanging armor/weapon added in BfA.

Worgen will get a visual rework and they will look cool AF, but i think they should give them the ability of attacking with their fangs if they use one-handed attacks and the ability of shapeshifting at will, not forced on combat (well, if they use their sprint racial they should have to shapeshift, same with "mount form" ofc XD).

Regular Draenei having purple tatoos/jewelry as Lightforged Draenei have, and the ability of changing the rune they have on their forehead when they use their racial in a similar way as Zandalari does, but changing the active racial instead of changing passives.

They should add Wildhammer Dwarves as sooner as possible, they aren't just Dwarves with tatoos, they are taller, more hairy and stronger, it could be a nice way to create the perfect Dwarf fantasy with the ability of having all three options playable, i would not change anything about Bronzebeard, i think they are fine, but this would be a cool and nice way to making people want to play a Dwarf, any of the three kind.

There is a lot they can do, and those are just things that I, as a fan, thought of, i hope they know what they are doing and make a great job in the future with making races more appealing overall, it feels nice to have more diversity when playing horde, even being a belf main it seemed strange to only see Blood elves everywhere.

[Ogren]

I would say that Stormwind betrayed all other kingdoms. Lordaeron, Quel'thalas, Dalaran and Stromgarde(by itself) have fallen before Varian acted. He was too busy mourning his wife while all other kingdoms(we don't know how did it look like in Kul Tiras) were fighting for their lifes.

Stormwind sent forces to help the northern kingdoms when Arthas attacked it. Their forces were decimated.

Nothing they could do to help Quel'thalas after that fact either.

https://i.imgur.com/Fk0gHmZ.jpg

Yes, and, after those pirates working with the Horde, I'd love if we find a rogue nation of pirates and brigands that joins the Horde. Imagine a pirate race that allows you to look like Jack Sparrow, Blackbeard or Barbossa, with missing teeth, lots of scars, crazy beards (on fire!), wild braids...

I feel like the Horde is the best it's ever been in terms of having so many different options to play around with.

I still think the Alliance needs help on that front, especially when more people play Horde than Alliance nowadays. Maybe updated Worgen will present a cool factor if they're handled well, though I don't think they'll be as popular as straight-back Orcs, still.

[matrix123mko]

Stormwind sent forces to help the northern kingdoms when Arthas attacked it. Their forces were decimated.

https://i.imgur.com/Fk0gHmZ.jpg

Your quote says only about neighbour kingdoms, so Stormwind doesn't count.

Nothing they could do to help Quel'thalas after that fact either.

After Alliance defeat at Lordaeron it would be a bit difficult, but still possible. In fact, Quel'thalas would win by itself if there were no Dar'khan Drathir. By the way, I wonder, why didn't Medivh visit Quel'thalas?

I still think the Alliance needs help on that front, especially when more people play Horde than Alliance nowadays. Maybe updated Worgen will present a cool factor if they're handled well, though I don't think they'll be as popular as straight-back Orcs, still.

I think Gilnean humans should get unique victorian hairstyles and beards. For now, they have less options than Stormwindian humans. Also, give them separate options
for different forms, because otherwise we have strange outcomes on one of our forms.

[Ogren]

Your quote says only about neighbour kingdoms, so Stormwind doesn't count.

After Alliance defeat at Lordaeron it would be a bit difficult, but still possible. In fact, Quel'thalas would win by itself if there were no Dar'khan Drathir. By the way, I wonder, why didn't Medivh visit Quel'thalas?

Stormwind definitely counts as a neighbor kingdom, more in the sense that it makes up the continent of the Eastern Kingdoms, but I do not feel it needs to be directly next to Lordaeron like presumably Stromgarde (the only area that can be considered a "neighbor kingdom" in your own definition, even though kingdom is used in plurality) would be to count. It also says Alliance forces in total, and Stormwind was still considered part of the Alliance and noted in the Chronicle as ensuring it would not collapse. There is also evidence of Stormwind humans who most certainly did fight the Scourge in Lordaeron, such as Grayson Shadowbreaker and Morgan Ladimore.

Attempting to paint Varian as selfish or a traitor is also a mischaracterization I feel. Any sabotaged attempt by Stormwind to send as much aid as they could is far more likely attributed to Katrana Prestor.

[Graden]

I think Gilnean humans should get unique victorian hairstyles and beards. For now, they have less options than Stormwindian humans. Also, give them separate options
for different forms, because otherwise we have strange outcomes on one of our forms.

That would be cool af, but in order to do that, at the very least they should give us the option for those who want, to instantly shapeshift into human form the moment we get out of combat. So we don't have to press the button every single time, because I know I do and it's tiring after a while. And that would make the Gilnean human form a bit more useful and would justify the unique customization, because right now barely any player use it, outside of RP realms.

Of course, I really doubt Blizzard would even bother to consider this.

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Attempting to paint Varian as selfish or a traitor is also a mischaracterization I feel. Any sabotaged attempt by Stormwind to send as much aid as they could is far more likely attributed to Katrana Prestor.

Truth is I'd love to know more of Varian's reaction when Lordaeron fell. He basically grew up there, Arthas was like his brother and Terenas his father figure. He took Stormwind back thanks to Lordaerom, basically Stormwind survivors owe everything to Lordaeron in my opinion. One would think that because of that Stormwindians should sent almost every availiable force they had at the time in order to help Lordaeron, but I agree with you that Katrana Prestor and other interior problems made this impossible. That's why I'd like more details on this matter, because what available info we have is very limited and simple.

[Ogren]

That would be cool af, but in order to do that, at the very least they should give us the option for those who want, to instantly shapeshift into human form the moment we get out of combat. So we don't have to press the button every single time, because I know I do and it's tiring after a while. And that would make the Gilnean human form a bit more useful and would justify the unique customization, because right now barely any player use it, outside of RP realms.

https://i.imgur.com/fzFtZYv.jpg

This is a concept art of the human form that has more unique hair and claw marks on their arms and stuff. It would have been so cool and unique, along with Genn's look in HotS that has pointed ears and more glowing eyes.

I think they just didn't bother because the main selling point of the race is being a Worgen 90% of the time, but if they made the human form more convenient to use like an auto-toggle when out of combat I think that would make it standout a bit more. (I don't bother using it all the time because I just end up forgetting it's even there.)

I love the Gilnean NPC's in Darkshore that go out into battle change to Worgen when they engage enemies and then shift back.

Truth is I'd love to know more of Varian's reaction when Lordaeron fell. He basically grew up there, Arthas was like his brother and Terenas his father figure. He took Stormwind back thanks to Lordaerom, basically Stormwind survivors owe everything to Lordaeron in my opinion. One would think that because of that Stormwindians should sent almost every availiable force they had at the time in order to help Lordaeron, but I agree with you that Katrana Prestor and other interior problems made this impossible. That's why I'd like more details on this matter, because what available info we have is very limited and simple.

He was pretty mad with Genn about abandoning Lordaeron, too, that was a pretty big reason for him taking a long time to come around to the Gilneans. (Probably the only reason, Worgen being a local threat in Duskwood is never mentioned as a factor AFAIK.)

[Graden]

https://i.imgur.com/fzFtZYv.jpg

This is a concept art of the human form that has more unique hair and claw marks on their arms and stuff. It would have been so cool and unique, along with Genn's look in HotS that has pointed ears and more glowing eyes.

I think they just didn't bother because the main selling point of the race is being a Worgen 90% of the time, but if they made the human form more convenient to use like an auto-toggle when out of combat I think that would make it standout a bit more. (I don't bother using it all the time because I just end up forgetting it's even there.)

I love the Gilnean NPC's in Darkshore that go out into battle change to Worgen when they engage enemies and then shift back.

Wow, I don't recall this screenshot. Very interesting and cool, what a pity they dropped that idea.
Well, we stay out of combat almost as much as in combat imo, so a unique human form wouldn't be a waste, if they bothered to implement it in a better way. I mean since they decided to make a human form available in the first place, then why not give it the appropriate care.

Anyway, that ship has sailed now, but as I said at least give us an auto-toggle option. It would be very easy to do it, the 'two forms' spell is already there, we just need this new option so we don't have to click it for the rest of eternity.

Exactly, the Gilneans NPC's in Darkshore reminded me how much I wanted an auto-toggle button.

He was pretty mad with Genn about abandoning Lordaeron, too, that was a pretty big reason for him taking a long time to come around to the Gilneans. (Probably the only reason, Worgen being a local threat in Duskwood is never mentioned as a factor AFAIK.)

Ah yeah you talk about the Wolfheart novel correct? It's true.
I can't blame Varian for being mad with Genn, but Gilneas had it's own problems as well and honestly Gilneas was lucky enough that never got the attention of Arthas himself. Otherwise it was doomed no matter what. The wall and the summoned Worgen managed to keep the scattered Scourge outside at bay and saved the kingdom. Yeah the wall basically turned into a prison when the Worgen curse happened, but in the end better to be a werewolf while you keep some of your humanity, and your human form (thanks to the Night Elves, I'll give them that) than share the fate of Lordaeron.
And let's not forget that not all Gilneans are cursed, we have many examples in game. We just play as the cursed ones.

[DeicideUH]

I feel like the Horde is the best it's ever been in terms of having so many different options to play around with.

I still think the Alliance needs help on that front, especially when more people play Horde than Alliance nowadays. Maybe updated Worgen will present a cool factor if they're handled well, though I don't think they'll be as popular as straight-back Orcs, still.

Both factions need attention in their lesser played races, both in customization and story relevance.

Now, about new race additions, Blizzard should give more attention to what players actually want before adding things out of the left field... It's crazy absurd that high elves and broken were skipped in favor of void elves and lightforged draenei.

[Traycor]

Is Vareesa the Warcraft equivalent of a holocaust denier?

"The Sunwell never happened, a human prince never defiled our lands and killed my sister while the human kingdoms sat around and watched, for the alliance."

Arthas was a deathknight (who was possessed by an orc, btw) and leading an undead army. Yet the Blood Elves are directly allied with the undead and orcs in the their kingdom. Why pin that on the "humans"?

Stormwind definitely counts as a neighbor kingdom

Story wise, isn't Stormwind hundreds of miles away from Lordaeron? It's hard to blame Stormwind when their own city was destroyed by Teron Gorefiend, and they were still rebuilding, yet an allied kingdom several hundred miles away is in distress.

It's crazy absurd that high elves and broken were skipped in favor of void elves and lightforged draenei.

Yeah, Broken should have been added before Draenei way back in TBC. It's almost ridiculous that the "core" races of High Elves, Ogres, Wildhammer Dwarves, and Broken are still not playable when we have all these extraneous races being added like Highmountain, Lightforged, and Void Elves.

[Graden]

I would prefer Broken or even void corrupted Broken from Argus any day than the literal abomination and butchering of the lore that are Void Elves.

[Ogren]

Story wise, isn't Stormwind hundreds of miles away from Lordaeron? It's hard to blame Stormwind when their own city was destroyed by Teron Gorefiend, and they were still rebuilding, yet an allied kingdom several hundred miles away is in distress.

I am not too certain, but the bottom-line is that Stormwind did not just sit on its hands when Lordaeron was sacked by Arthas. It did try to help in some way.

I would prefer Broken or even void corrupted Broken from Argus any day than the literal abomination and butchering of the lore that are Void Elves.

I don't see any reason why we cannot still have Broken on top of the Void Elves, even if they arguably should have been the true option for a Void-flavored race. I do like the idea of Void Elves being a good bridge to the Alliance having Broken and Ethereal allies, though, maybe even cursed arakkoa too with the shadow reverence being a prominent theme.

But Void Elves in of themselves are not that offensive to me and don't exactly butcher the lore. The devs themselves do that with every retcon they decide to throw out, but Void Elves are only flawed in that they lack strong lore backbone rather than necessitating retcons to justify them existing, and they are poorly implemented with them looking nothing like the person that inspired their creation. Other than that I do agree that they are not a good High Elf compromise, but I don't think they should really be that either.

[FlubberPuddy]

Other than that I do agree that they are not a good High Elf compromise, but I don't think they should really be that either.

Which is good that Void Elves aren't and shouldn't be. Lots of us here wanting High Elves are also wanting Void Elves to become more fleshed out from their sad reveal. We want greater depth added to VEs rather than just being blueberry blood elves atm.

Now if Blizzard were intentionally trying to utilize races like LF Draenei and VE as compromises to the much desired Broken and High Elves, then it would be an issue. That's when player's desires get taken a backseat because something intentional was done in opposite of what was the desired outcome.

Thankfully, we have multiple confirmations from Blizzard on how they're not compromises, with the most recent being Josh Allen telling us all these AR up to ZD/KT were already in flight when all the AR feedback threads went up.

Hoping like DeicideUH says, that they start implementing what's actually being requested over bunch more allied races out of nowhere.

[Traycor]

Josh Allen telling us all these AR up to ZD/KT were already in flight when all the AR feedback threads went up.

Hoping like DeicideUH says, that they start implementing what's actually being requested over bunch more allied races out of nowhere.

If they intended to move forward without factoring in that feedback, then Josh Allen probably wouldn't have informed us of the above. It would just be fuel on the fire.

[FlubberPuddy]

If they intended to move forward without factoring in that feedback, then Josh Allen probably wouldn't have informed us of the above. It would just be fuel on the fire.

Yup, they've opened themselves to some scrutiny. We'll have to see what they release next and then how they explain those decisions to see if feedback actually matters or doesn't.

[Traycor]

Now this is intersting, coming from Ythisens, a former Warcraft CM:

https://curiouscat.me/CadenHouse/post/843519134

How do you feel personally about the idea of High Elves becoming as an allied? What did the team think about them at the time of the massive megathreads?

Personally I have no issue with them becoming an allied race, as the arguments against it are pretty hard to make.
"Blood Elves and High Elves would look roughly the same." Pandaren already do this across factions.
"Lore wise there isn't enough High Elves to justify making them a playable race." Void Elves lore wise have less people than high elves but are playable.
"There's too many elf races." It's a fantasy game... and they already exist anyway.

There isn't a good reason to me apart from just flat out saying they don't want to do them. It's hard to justify game and lore wise why they can't be playable.

I can't talk about anything internal on the conversations, I'm just referencing what's been said in Q&As.