1. #9581
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garfurion View Post
    From the same interview it's also clear that Neutral race in Blizzard terms is a race that youstart playing as Neutral and later on choose a side, not a race or model that both factions can play.
    Exactly. If "high elves" were introduced for the Allianced, they wouldn't have a "shared starting zone experience" with the Horde's blood elves and then decide if you go Horde or Alliance. They'd start AS Alliance already, from the get-go, just like all the other Alliance races. Except for Pandaren, of course.

    Which is why I keep insisting that the idea that the Thalassian elves would somehow become "neutral" if high elves were added as a playable race for the Alliance is nonsensical.

  2. #9582
    High Elves are Blood Elves. In fact, one of the OST of Warcraft III: Frozen Throne is called Vengeance Of The Blood Elves.

    What Blizzard needs to do is allow Blood Elves to have their blue eyes again since the Sunwell is purified and once again consists of Arcane energies with some holy mixed into it.

  3. #9583
    I am Murloc! FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Exactly. If "high elves" were introduced for the Allianced, they wouldn't have a "shared starting zone experience" with the Horde's blood elves and then decide if you go Horde or Alliance. They'd start AS Alliance already, from the get-go, just like all the other Alliance races. Except for Pandaren, of course.

    Which is why I keep insisting that the idea that the Thalassian elves would somehow become "neutral" if high elves were added as a playable race for the Alliance is nonsensical.
    Most of the reasons against are nonsensical, but also I believe it stems from a sort of envy. For if High Elves become playable they'll certainly get the Allied Race treatment that comes with new hairstyles, accessories, character options, racials, mounts, and such. And most players of the existing races of these AR got pissed/frustrated about it.

    There were lots of threads from before about how Draenei and Tauren customization should've been rolled into the existing races, Blood Elves were upset that Void Elf males got "better facial hair", lots of bitching from Orc players about wanting Mag'har hairstyles. These led some people to consider the AR to be "straight upgrades" to existing races. We started hearing calls for Darkspear Trolls and Forsaken to have a straight-back option.

    You can especially see this within the High Elf threads when you see comments along the lines of, "these things for High Elves should just be rolled into Blood Elves" as if that argument holds any ground. When the reason for different customization in the first place is to accentuate the different options of races - between any race and allied race.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by s0ul View Post
    What Blizzard needs to do is allow Blood Elves to have their blue eyes again since the Sunwell is purified and once again consists of Arcane energies with some holy mixed into it.
    Man that's so obvious. I'm not sure how they missed that when they were adding in the "some holy" golden eyes!

    /s

    No one has yet asked Blizzard if Blood Elves could get Blue Eyes back, and neither has anyone been able to confirm with Blizzard whether the Blood Elves can choose which energies to utilize from within the Sunwell - thus affecting their eye color.

    Technically they're only allowing Blood Elf players to keep Green Eyes as more of a player agency thing than actual lore "if you have a Blood Elf warlock and you want Green Eyes, then you do you." - Jeremy Feasel.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I'm going to go out on a limb and say the fact they changed Seraphi's eyes from Green to Blue to fix them, but didn't touch any other High Elves from blue eyes - means that Blizzard is still utilizing the ol' Blue Eyes = a High Elf, Green or Gold = a Blood Elf.

  4. #9584
    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    I'm going to go out on a limb and say the fact they changed Seraphi's eyes from Green to Blue to fix them, but didn't touch any other High Elves from blue eyes - means that Blizzard is still utilizing the ol' Blue Eyes = a High Elf, Green or Gold = a Blood Elf.
    Yes, Ion Hazzikostas stated High Elves and Blood Elves have different eye color and there seems to be nothing in the lore which would link the High Elves blue eyes to arcane magic from any Sunwell,
    "I guess only blood elves feel like the odd man out for the Horde. I hope that we've engineered that into it as deftly as we could, but you know, it's the equivalent of a bunch of white chicks hanging out with goblin or tauren. It's weird." -- Chris Metzen

  5. #9585
    Ion Hazzikostas also said High Elves are playable and they're on the Horde. And that they're thinking about adding more customization specifically eye colours. Uh oh

  6. #9586
    OP updated with some of the excellent art by @ercarp from last year.

  7. #9587
    Quote Originally Posted by s0ul View Post
    Ion Hazzikostas also said High Elves are playable and they're on the Horde. And that they're thinking about adding more customization specifically eye colours. Uh oh
    Ion Hazzikostas said that High Elves don't have any major settlements and that High Elves being playable may happen somewhere in the future (though he obviously doesn't like the idea). No wonder WoW is now so shitty, considering that its game director doesn't know that playable High Elves exist and have entire zones dedicated to them, together with their capital.

    Or maybe he never said that High Elves are playable and only said that playable Blood Elves already fulfil the same fantasy as High Elves.

    Nah, considering the state of BfA, it must be the former.
    Last edited by ddi2; 2019-04-15 at 05:30 PM.

  8. #9588
    I am Murloc! FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by s0ul View Post
    Ion Hazzikostas also said High Elves are playable and they're on the Horde. And that they're thinking about adding more customization specifically eye colours. Uh oh
    I guess Alex Afrasiabi, Jeremy Feasel, Candace Thomas, and Ythisens (and who else knows how many other former/current Blizz workers) all missed that memo since they continue speaking of High Elves plausibly being playable. Uh oh

  9. #9589
    I love Talendrion's mockups based on night elf models:




    Naysayers can't even acuse us of "stealing" a Horde model.
    Last edited by DeicideUH; 2019-04-15 at 09:55 PM.
    Whatever...

  10. #9590
    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    I love Talendrion's mockups based on night elf models:
    Naysayers can't even accuse us of "stealing" a Horde model.
    Great work was put into these by Talendrion! They look amazing. That being said, I'm not personally a fan of the Night Elf model. It's more lanky and has more of a wild elf/wood elf feel that fits the Night Elves well. (It's way closer to trolls than high elves, which is appropriate for that model).

    I have no qualms with a new model, but I don't want it to be a reskinned Night Elf. I'd rather it be a reskin of the blood elf model and have new animations. The idle standing animation with the arrogant chest out position is low hanging fruit for making a high elf look very different from a blood elf.

    We have 3 player models based off the night elf already, so it makes more sense to have a 3rd Thalassian model instead of a 4th night elf model.

  11. #9591
    Quote Originally Posted by Traycor View Post
    Great work was put into these by Talendrion! They look amazing. That being said, I'm not personally a fan of the Night Elf model. It's more lanky and has more of a wild elf/wood elf feel that fits the Night Elves well. (It's way closer to trolls than high elves, which is appropriate for that model).

    I have no qualms with a new model, but I don't want it to be a reskinned Night Elf. I'd rather it be a reskin of the blood elf model and have new animations. The idle standing animation with the arrogant chest out position is low hanging fruit for making a high elf look very different from a blood elf.

    We have 3 player models based off the night elf already, so it makes more sense to have a 3rd Thalassian model instead of a 4th night elf model.
    I think they are awesome and would gladly accept them. They can be scaled down to proper high elf height, and animations can be tweeked to not be just copy/pasted night elf animations. I wouldn't mind Blizzard giving some serious work on revamping night elf/nightborne animations either.
    Whatever...

  12. #9592
    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    I think they are awesome and would gladly accept them. They can be scaled down to proper high elf height, and animations can be tweeked to not be just copy/pasted night elf animations. I wouldn't mind Blizzard giving some serious work on revamping night elf/nightborne animations either.
    They would be acceptable and I would be happy. That being said, there's not really a reason for it. Alliance already has the Thalassian model, which was the main complaint Horde had. They wanted the model to be exclusive. Alliance already has that model, so using a different one seems pointless. Animation/Idle Stance would change the silhouette anyways. Horde has more Night Elf models than the Alliance does, so having a second Alliance Thalassian model would be fine. (Not that I actually think that matters. The right model should be used for whatever race.)

  13. #9593
    Quote Originally Posted by Traycor View Post
    They would be acceptable and I would be happy. That being said, there's not really a reason for it. Alliance already has the Thalassian model, which was the main complaint Horde had. They wanted the model to be exclusive. Alliance already has that model, so using a different one seems pointless. Animation/Idle Stance would change the silhouette anyways. Horde has more Night Elf models than the Alliance does, so having a second Alliance Thalassian model would be fine. (Not that I actually think that matters. The right model should be used for whatever race.)
    I'm open to all options. If Blizzard is utterly against using the blood elf model again, then I call using the night elven model the "kul tiran solution": a different body type for high elves. If not, then using the thalassian model is just as fine.
    Whatever...

  14. #9594
    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    I'm open to all options. If Blizzard is utterly against using the blood elf model again, then I call using the night elven model the "kul tiran solution": a different body type for high elves. If not, then using the thalassian model is just as fine.
    Nah, the problem with High Elves was subraces not existing -- now that they do (regardless of whatever Blizzard calls the system), the only thing to wait for is another WoD->MoP->Legion scenario where Blizzard has to bait people back with x big thing (Demon Hunters/Illidan/Legion threat in the case of the Legion expansion).

    We're thankfully much closer to that with how terrible BFA has been for Blizzard's public image, but you have to account for how many people will feel Blizzard ""redeemed"" themselves with flying (already announced for 8.2), Vulpera, Junker Gnomes, any other Allied Races Blizzard might try to shoehorn in (if that's even possible at this point, but we are "missing" 2 allied race models if that's how the system works, for Worgen and Undead), and the inevitable player sub cycle of the next expansion being announced -- 8.3->9.0 period will bring a (relative) ton of players back even if it's garbage simply because it's something of a habit for whatever reason (marketing/nostalgia?) for players to sub at the end of the expansion in "preparation" for the next.

    At this point, High Elves are all but inevitable, especially with how the discussion has somehow lived a decade+the Ioning+the community bludgeoning that happened as a result for months afterwards. It's just a matter of if it's coming in a year or in ten, because they're not gonna break the glass until they feel like they have to. As Bellular has pointed out though, there's a deep sense of lost faith in Blizzard from the community right now, so I (personally, as someone who is pro High Elf, so there's a disclaimer) think High Elves are coming sooner rather than later. I have no idea how they handled their whole situation so poorly thus far.

    I don't know if High Elves would be enough to make me resub after they butchered the GCD, but it'd be enough to talk the boycott over again with friends and family for sure.

    And for sure, they'll use a tweaked Blood Elf model, like the Night Elves and the Nightborne. It'll just be different posture and idles but that's what most people would be happy with anyway, I think. Void Elf explicitly didn't do any of that.
    Last edited by ninthbelief; 2019-04-16 at 01:15 AM.

  15. #9595
    I hope you are right. I've kinda lost faith, been fighting more to show displeasure of Blizzard's decisions than hope of achieving what we want. I still can't believe how bad was void elf lore. It's something Blizzard created without passion, care or planning, as if only to quickly fill a quota. And lightforged draenei weren't far behind.
    Last edited by DeicideUH; 2019-04-16 at 03:17 AM.
    Whatever...

  16. #9596
    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    I'm open to all options. If Blizzard is utterly against using the blood elf model again, then I call using the night elven model the "kul tiran solution": a different body type for high elves. If not, then using the thalassian model is just as fine.
    Oh, I'd love a whole new model for High Elves, similar to what the Kul'Tirans got. It just seems like a big ask. Whatever gets the job done, I'm happy with.

  17. #9597
    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    I hope you are right. I've kinda lost faith, been fighting more to show displeasure of Blizzard's decisions than hope of achieving what we want. I still can't believe how bad was void elf lore. It's something Blizzard created without passion, care or planning, as if only to quickly fill a quota. And lightforged draenei weren't far behind.
    I think VE lore could be great if it stands separately from the other races (specifically HE/BE/Ethereals), but in WoW right now, with two of those races not playable, their story definitely rings sort of exhausting to me.

    FWIW, yes, I can guarantee High Elves are coming -- like I said though, I don't know if that means they're coming as a last batch of races in BFA, or if they're coming in 9.0, or if they're coming literally years from now. Based on Blizzard's history, I'd say it'll depend entirely on how hard WoW continues to fall in the public eye.

    And don't condemn anyone who says they aren't coming or whatever -- a crucial part of them coming is that these discussion sites like mmo-c and the battle.net general discussion forums have High Elves as a discussed race more than any other. The argument keeps that idea at the front of these discussion sites, so in a sense, the "nay-sayers" or "anti-high elfers" or whatever you'd call them are doing their part in making sure they happen. If the discussion had died proper last year, I think it'd be a different story, but there are still hundreds of posts a day about High Elves.

    I personally am not waiting to wait the six years or whatever it's gonna take for them to panic, so I've moved onto other MMOs, but I do like to hop on free non-official forums once in a while and check the discussion. I think that's the healthiest approach.

  18. #9598
    High Elves are Blood Elves.
    Prince kael'thas sunstrider rename them after the attack of the scourge on silvermoon.
    Check the Lore and the offical race page on blizz. High Elves and Blood Elves are the same race 100%
    They just changed the name nothing more.

  19. #9599
    That's a cool throwback when the vanilla High Elves use modified Night Elf models.

    Buuuuuuut...a race this iconic to the Alliance should have their own unique model, instead of one cobbled together from other races, or just a recolor of the blood elf model. I'm partial to the skinny alpha blood elf model, since all of the current elf models are some degree of beefy. On one hand, skinny models fit spell casters better, and would make it easier to create an elderly elf wizard, which is an option that is lacking, including ones with dark human skin tones. On the other hand, most of the helf groups, Allerian, the Silver Covenant, and the Highvale (who forgo magic completely) are militaristic or living in rugged conditions that they'd naturally be more bulkier than their more decadent living cousins.

  20. #9600
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alixie View Post
    That's a cool throwback when the vanilla High Elves use modified Night Elf models.

    Buuuuuuut...a race this iconic to the Alliance should have their own unique model, instead of one cobbled together from other races, or just a recolor of the blood elf model. I'm partial to the skinny alpha blood elf model, since all of the current elf models are some degree of beefy. On one hand, skinny models fit spell casters better, and would make it easier to create an elderly elf wizard, which is an option that is lacking, including ones with dark human skin tones. On the other hand, most of the helf groups, Allerian, the Silver Covenant, and the Highvale (who forgo magic completely) are militaristic or living in rugged conditions that they'd naturally be more bulkier than their more decadent living cousins.
    It is important to emphasise yet again that High Elves are NOT an iconic Alliance race. If they were as iconic and central to the Alliance as you and others are suggesting, they would have added them to the game as one of the first four Alliance races all the way back in vanilla. They went with Gnomes instead, a race whose sole contribution to the franchise up to that point had been piloting Alliance aircraft in Warcraft 2.

    Arguing they are iconic contradicts the storyline of this franchise and reaches beyond Warcraft to wider fantasy tropes, that because Elves, Humans and Dwarves are eternal allies in other fantasy franchises (Warhammer, Lord of the Rings, Dungeons and Dragons etc.) then the High Elves of this franchise must be an iconic part of yet another Human led coalition.

    The storyline of the Warcraft High Elves is not of a group that has clung to it's principles and it's allies through every catastrophe and challenge. It is the story of a group that were the very last to join the original Alliance, which they did under compulsion, were the very first leave, who feel they were betrayed by humanity during the last act of the High Elves, who renamed themselves the Blood Elves and who then joined the Horde.

    According the status of 'iconic race' to a people currently at war with the Alliance is a perverse reading of the situation and is unfair to the races that are actually iconic to the Alliance.

    In contrast the Blood Elves, the redefined High Elves of the Warcraft franchise, are an iconic Horde race. Like many races in the game, there exist rebel factions outside the racial mainstream such as the Freebooter Kul Tirans who assist the Horde or the Grimtotem Tauren who attack everyone, yet nobody claims Kul Tirans are an iconic Horde race because of that assistance, or that the Grimtotem are an iconic Alliance race because of that one time they assisted the Alliance. Similarly, that a few thalassian renegades (and I mean a few) have on occasion assisted the Alliance does not grant them the status of 'iconic'. They are nothing of the sort.

    And as for hoping they get a brand new model, when the Void Elves the Alliance actually did get would have a far better claim to one given that the Void Elves went through an actual transformation, that remains the stuff of fantasy even within a fantasy.
    Last edited by Obelisk Kai; 2019-04-16 at 11:09 AM.

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