Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Unholyground]

It's an entirely different debate from what is going on in here, but you can't go around saying it will definitely happen when we have a lead developer clearly stating why it won't.

On second thoughts, maybe it's not entirely different from here after all.

If we all had a quarter from how many times they flip flop we would all be millionaires. Hard to believe what they say anymore.

[pacotaco]

Couldn't have said it better my self. People seem to think that different hair, tattoos, or culture = new AR.

This is why you have people requesting wildhammer dwarves when their exactly the same as bronzebeard minus tattoos, or high elves when they're the same as belves.

Every AR have dramatic physical differences besides hair styles and tattoos which are also explained via the lore.

HM tauren: Blessed by Malorne gave antlers.

LF Draenie: pale skin with gold plated hooves and skin due to light infusion.

Nightborne: infused by night well caused a more ethreal appearance as compared to nelves.

Velves: void skin and tentacles due to viid infusion.

DI dwarves: ember hair due to forging shenanigans and black skins and red eyes cuz genetic off shoot i guess.

Maghar orcs: No fel corruptuon opens up numerous skin tones due to all the different clans.

KT humans: big and burley due to their living conditions.

Zandalari trolls: genetical off shoot causes then to look significantly different from all other troll tribes.

Now when you compare helves and belves or wh dwarves with regular dwarves there's no huge difference that would justify an AR. Not to mention that both belves and dwarves have spawned an AR already each.

Wildhammer are arguable more likely. They are drasticaly different from Ironforge dwarves: their culture revolves around mountain tops & gryphons instead, they're physically more wild looking and taller, they are more tan and they sport tatoos, etc.

The only difference between High and Blood Elves is that the former refused to feed siphoning and kept fel away.

[FlubberPuddy]

Christ you guys sound like Apple zombies when they introduce the same exact phone every year with an insignificant difference and call it a new phone.

Seriously they practically look the same as belves but with an alliance backdrop, DK eyes and different hair.

At least velves have more dramatic differences whether you accept it or not in order to justify them as an AR when compared to that joke.

So much for "muh lores" and "muh cultural differences"

Just go Horde ffs.

Some people are fans of pistachio ice cream, or blueberry, and others are fans of simple vanilla.

Sometimes people just wanna a regular ol' cheeseburger y'know.

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That is a lie. There are High Elf wayfarers inside tel'rogus happily messing with void magic right now. Why would you say something so easily disproven?

Do we see these High Elf Wayfarer's messing with void magic? All I see is some Wayfarer's standing around or walking around. We don't see them like the Elves who train as DHs, or those DKs in training wearing DK armor and running around, or how some Mages are seen practicing their magic, etc etc.

Blizzard has clearly placed NPCs actually doing magic to showcase they're practicing it. From what I recall, we do not have this with High Elf Wayfarer's.

And as Moorgard confirmed, Void Elves can convert other willing Elves so it is perfectly possible than some Void Elves are former Alliance High Elves who decided to become Void Elves. So if you need your Void Elf to have been a member of the Silver Covenant to be happy, there is nothing stopping you roleplaying that.

Moorgard didn't confirm shit, which is why no media outlet plastered that comment he made as "Void Elves are converting other Elves into Void Elves!" and no one in the community is talking about it or even made a thread on it from what I've seen. Everyone knows it was a non-committal non-answer. Only those desperate to see it confirmed take it that way.

Reminds me of when some posters were so completely convinced that Vereesa dies at Teldrassil based on nothing substantial other than the desire to have it be done. Those peeps sure disappeared.

Well in World of Warcraft it doesn't quite work like that, factions are comprised of distinct races and whilst their may be an argument regarding whether basing the factions on races was the right move, that's the sort of question you settle BEFORE a game launches, not rehash fifteen years later during it's seventh expansion.
Even if a race within WoW was more than biology and did in fact embrace culture, you would still lose because Blood Elves and Alliance High Elves have identical cultures. What defines the Alliance High Elves is either their political allegiance to the Alliance or their rejection of the Blood Elves. That is it.

How is anything of what is said here disproving DeicideUH's commentary on how you play a culture and not specific race, such as Stormwind Human vs Kul'Tiran Human? How does what's said here prove that nothing's stopping a Blood Elf from gaining that aesthetic?

What you said in this snippet disproves nothing. "Race" aesthetics are determined for each choice we have. Therefore you won't have Blood Elves putting mud and feathers on themselves and painting their faces because that's not the aesthetic Blizzard has determined for them. Remember what Ion said, "majestic" is what he used when describing Blood Elves. Dirtying yourself up doesn't fit that and therefore it's that gameplay reason (as others have said), that stops Blood Elves from getting that customization.

If Blood Elves were able to have every customization available to every single facet of their society then that rule would apply to other races as well, and clearly we see that's not happening, see: Nightborne encompassing the Night Elf Arcane aesthetic, Mag'har encompassing Uncorrupted Orc aesthetic, Highmountain encompassing river/mountain Tauren aesthetic, Kul'Tirans encompassing seafaring Human aesthetic, and on and on.

[Alixie]

Is there any reason my Blood Elf main wouldn't be able to replicate any of the designs on the front page if he so fancied?

Any reason my normal space goat cant get tattoos and gold horse shoes? Superficial details count as a new race according to Blizz. Dont expect tats and real beards to be an option for blood elves ever. Take solace that blood elves have exclusive rights on Sephiroth's hairdo.

[FlubberPuddy]

Btw, saw this on the official forums as to why all Void Elves are still Blood Elves (and will most likely stay former Blood Elves), the /joke on the female:

"First was high, then blood, and now void. Get the order right."

A High Elf to Void Elf wouldn't be saying "then Blood".

And as Obelisk stated earlier about how a Silver Covenant guard disguise shatters being a High Elf from said /silly etc, then that means this too shatters High Elves being turned into Void Elves.

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Any reason my normal space goat cant get tattoos and gold horse shoes? Superficial details count as a new race according to Blizz. Dont expect tats and real beards to be an option for blood elves ever. Take solace that blood elves have exclusive rights on Sephiroth's hairdo.

Especially since Wildhammer Dwarves are in-game right now and represented in every visual way the same as Bronzebeards aside from having blue tattoos. Blue tattoos are enough to be a different "race" per Blizzard.

[Obelisk Kai]

Any reason my normal space goat cant get tattoos and gold horse shoes? Superficial details count as a new race according to Blizz. Dont expect tats and real beards to be an option for blood elves ever. Take solace that blood elves have exclusive rights on Sephiroth's hairdo.

Yes, your normal Draenei isn't lightforged. Once they goes through the lightforging process, their skin tone will change, their will develop a new and more prominent cranial ridge and their hair colour will bleach white. This change seems to be permanent and cannot be undone. Nor can an ordinary Draenei avail of it without lightforging. To describe it as superficial is disingenuous, when it is representative of quite a profound change for that Draenei.

And yes, Turalyon as a Lightforged would qualify as an Allied race if there were more than one of him.

Conversely, all the proposals put forward as being substantive within this thread rely upon the conceit that what you acknowledge to be superficial differences are enough. There is nothing that separates a Blood Elf from an Alliance High Elf other than an opinion, no process equivalent to the lightforging of the Lightforged Draenei OR the voidification process that the Void Elves went through. Any different hair styles proposed for Alliance High Elves can be adopted by a Blood Elf. Tattoos proposed for High Elves can be used by Blood Elves. They do not make an Allied race.

[Garfurion]

They can’t replicate the eyes.

True, according to Word of God contact lenses don't exist yet in the WoW universe.

[FlubberPuddy]

Conversely, all the proposals put forward as being substantive within this thread rely upon the conceit that what you acknowledge to be superficial differences are enough. There is nothing that separates a Blood Elf from an Alliance High Elf other than an opinion, no process equivalent to the lightforging of the Lightforged Draenei OR the voidification process that the Void Elves went through. Any different hair styles proposed for Alliance High Elves can be adopted by a Blood Elf. Tattoos proposed for High Elves can be used by Blood Elves. They do not make an Allied race.

Again, Wildhammers are only separated from Bronzebeards by blue tattoos. That's been enough per Blizzard. Both in-game and out-of-game where Jeremy Feasel pointed out this one aesthetic as something they go brainstorm about in the office.

It isn't that only "we" acknowledge this. It is Blizzard themselves. And isn't that what people come in to tell us at random times, "listen to what Blizzard is saying?" What's with the same advice not being practiced here?

Also if the 2nd bold were true then those who ask for Mag'har hair on their Green orcs, or Void Elf beards on Blood Elves would have this request fulfilled, would they not? And yet, they do not.

[Garfurion]

There is nothing that separates a Blood Elf from an Alliance High Elf other than an opinion, no process equivalent to the lightforging of the Lightforged Draenei OR the voidification process that the Void Elves went through.

You forget eye-color as stated by Word of God.

The Lightforging process which turns a Draneei (or human) into a Lightforged or Void Infusion turning Blood Elves into Void Elves or the Blessing of Cenarius giving High Mountain Tauren moose-like antlers is in essence no different than the Fel Corruption which turned the Orcs skin color green.

As per Ask CDev round 3:

"The situation regarding blood elf eyes is, in fact, extremely similar to that of the green skin of orcs: just being around heavy use of fel magic turned the eyes of the blood elves green. You could be the most pious of priests or most outdoorsy of Farstriders, chances are, if you were a high elf in Quel'Thalas or Outland following the Third War, you were around fel energies, and your eyes would turn green. Like the orcs' skin color, such an effect would take a very long time to wear off. Fel magic works a bit like radiation in this sense; it permeates the area and seeps into anything in the vicinity. Anything near a source of fel magic shows signs of slight corruption, it just so happens that high elves and orcs manifest it in a very visual way. "

So, like Orcs, Blood Elves were Fel Corrupted resulting in Green Eyes, and Ion Hazzikostas stating eye-color is a differentiating feature means High Elves were not Fel-corrupted. In essence, Blood Elves are to High Elves what Orcs are to MU Mag'har Orcs.

Since Blood Elves seem as of yet to be incapable of regaining their "original" eye color back it seems the Fel Corruption has not worn off yet. Even yellow eyes of Blood Elves seem restricted, lore-wise, to priests and paladins and not a "racial" feature. Warcraft 2 human Paladins were also featured with glowing yellow eyes compared to the knight base-units.

[Obelisk Kai]

You forget eye-color as stated by Word of God.

The Lightforging process which turns a Draneei (or human) into a Lightforged or Void Infusion turning Blood Elves into Void Elves or the Blessing of Cenarius giving High Mountain Tauren moose-like antlers is in essence no different than the Fel Corruption which turned the Orcs skin color green.

As per Ask CDev round 3:

"The situation regarding blood elf eyes is, in fact, extremely similar to that of the green skin of orcs: just being around heavy use of fel magic turned the eyes of the blood elves green. You could be the most pious of priests or most outdoorsy of Farstriders, chances are, if you were a high elf in Quel'Thalas or Outland following the Third War, you were around fel energies, and your eyes would turn green. Like the orcs' skin color, such an effect would take a very long time to wear off. Fel magic works a bit like radiation in this sense; it permeates the area and seeps into anything in the vicinity. Anything near a source of fel magic shows signs of slight corruption, it just so happens that high elves and orcs manifest it in a very visual way. "

So, like Orcs, Blood Elves were Fel Corrupted resulting in Green Eyes, and Ion Hazzikostas stating eye-color is a differentiating feature means High Elves were not Fel-corrupted. In essence, Blood Elves are to High Elves what Orcs are to MU Mag'har Orcs.

Since Blood Elves seem as of yet to be incapable of regaining their "original" eye color back it seems the Fel Corruption has not worn off yet. Even yellow eyes of Blood Elves seem restricted, lore-wise, to priests and paladins and not a "racial" feature. Warcraft 2 human Paladins were also featured with glowing yellow eyes compared to the knight base-units.

There is a question of scale in that the only observed change was a change in eye colour. We have seen what happens to a thalassian elf when they overdose on fel, they turn into a felblood elf. Compared to what happened to the Orcs, it is like a small nightcap compared to a all weekend drinking binge.

Secondly, I very clearly stated that one of the key differences between an Allied race and it's parent race is that while you may go from one to the other, you cannot go back again. A Highmountain Tauren cannot become a Mulgore Tauren. A Green skinned Orc cannot get it's brown skin back. A void elf is not going to un-void.

Golden eyes on Blood Elves shows that the green eye colouration, as minor a change as it is, is not forever and can be changed...in other words while it may be akin to orc corruption it is nowhere near the same level of intensity...it is not indelible. Whatever fel taint the Blood Elves carried is being cleansed. In time, all Blood Elves will probably have golden eyes.

And we know from 'In the Shadow of the Sun' that Alliance High Elves are also feeding on the Sunwell again. They took will likely end up with golden eyes, as they are the same race as the Blood Elves.

As for your claim that the golden eyes are restricted and not a racial feature, the fact that in game anyone who isn't a Demon Hunter, even a Warlock, can use golden eyes shows that this is not the case. I would advise you that if you claim that golden eyes are therefore only available to Blood Elves of all classes as a courtesy to the player and not indicative of lore (which would not explain why Demon Hunters are excluded, as that exclusion is clearly lore based) then any lore based objections to blue eyes for Blood Elves on your part would evaporate and that customization option should also be extended to Blood Elf players as the same courtesy once a separate eye colour customization option for all races becomes available.

[elbleuet]

Keep asking for them folks. We will get them, one day or another. whether it is by new costumisation options or as a new allied race.
I can only hope Silvermoon is turned into a new warfront in the end and the sunwell corrupted again, allowing void elves to grow in number and possibly opening the way to new skin options for them.

The blood elves would be exiled to Suramar so that each faction would have an elven capital magic.

[Astranea]

So the Alliance gets the High Elves... and since we love elves and all want more elves... the Horde gets the San’layn!

Works for me really. Where do I sign up? ^^

[Alixie]

Conversely, all the proposals put forward as being substantive within this thread rely upon the conceit that what you acknowledge to be superficial differences are enough.

As amazing and powerful as I am, Blizzard is the one determining that superficial differences are enough to be a separate "Race". Look at the Kul Tirans. Fat is considered a race. They really should have labeled them as allied fractions, since all of the ARs are just offshoots of a parent race. At least until Vulpera, who actually will be a new race.

[Garfurion]

There is a question of scale in that the only observed change was a change in eye colour. We have seen what happens to a thalassian elf when they overdose on fel, they turn into a felblood elf. Compared to what happened to the Orcs, it is like a small nightcap compared to a all weekend drinking binge.

The comparison between felblood Elves and "Normal" green Orcs is wrong. The orc version of a felblood Elf would be similar to a Fel Orc. They both "overdosed" on demonic blood but Orcs like Thrall never consumed any felblood and still ended up green.

Also, Word of God explicitly stated that the situation of Blood Elven green eyes is extremely similar to the Orcs green skin:

"The situation regarding blood elf eyes is, in fact, extremely similar to that of the green skin of orcs: just being around heavy use of fel magic turned the eyes of the blood elves green. You could be the most pious of priests or most outdoorsy of Farstriders, chances are, if you were a high elf in Quel'Thalas or Outland following the Third War, you were around fel energies, and your eyes would turn green. Like the orcs' skin color, such an effect would take a very long time to wear off. Fel magic works a bit like radiation in this sense; it permeates the area and seeps into anything in the vicinity. Anything near a source of fel magic shows signs of slight corruption, it just so happens that high elves and orcs manifest it in a very visual way."

That Blood Elves didn't turn completely green doesn't necessarily mean that the average Blood Elf was any less fel corrupted than the average Orc before the Sunwell was cleansed at the end of TBC. Orcs and Elves seem to show the effect of Fel corruption in different ways. Orcs for instance have a whole range of eye colors. Do you have a lore source stating the fel corruption of Blood Elves was less than that of Orcs like Thrall ?

Secondly, I very clearly stated that one of the key differences between an Allied race and it's parent race is that while you may go from one to the other, you cannot go back again. A Highmountain Tauren cannot become a Mulgore Tauren. A Green skinned Orc cannot get it's brown skin back. A void elf is not going to un-void.

Orcs are an Allied race now ? I must have missed that memo . Also, Word of God explicitly stated that the Orc's green skin color can wear off, just that it takes a very long time.

"Like the orcs' skin color, such an effect would take a very long time to wear off." -- Ask CDev round 3.


From Fel we know it can be cleansed/purged ever since Elune transformed a Satyr back into a Night-Elf so purging/cleansing the Void might be possible as well. The Sataka the Lighteater questline in Legion shows that there are several methods a Dark Naaru can be turned back into a (Light) Naaru such as purging the Void or drawing out void energy. Void-Purged Krokul also exist so it seems purging the Void completely or partially is not impossible although Blizzard of course would never completely remove the void from Void Elves.

And we know from 'In the Shadow of the Sun' that Alliance High Elves are also feeding on the Sunwell again. They took will likely end up with golden eyes, as they are the same race as the Blood Elves.

That's possible but High Elves were never fel corrupted so their starting situation was/is different which may affect their ability to gain golden eyes. We'll see what happens in-game. Arator the Redeemer seems to currently have golden/yellow eyes, but he's a half-elf and his eye color seems to change constantly (it was green in the 3 sisters comic and TBC but changed to blue in patch 3.1.0 and to golden/yellow in BFA). It could also be that he was kind of lightforged after Legion.

As for your claim that the golden eyes are restricted and not a racial feature, the fact that in game anyone who isn't a Demon Hunter, even a Warlock, can use golden eyes shows that this is not the case. I would advise you that if you claim that golden eyes are therefore only available to Blood Elves of all classes as a courtesy to the player and not indicative of lore (which would not explain why Demon Hunters are excluded, as that exclusion is clearly lore based) then any lore based objections to blue eyes for Blood Elves on your part would evaporate and that customization option should also be extended to Blood Elf players as the same courtesy once a separate eye colour customization option for all races becomes available.

My mistake, I remembered Jeremy Feasel saying they only added golden eyes to some paladins and priests when he explained the lore behind the Blood Elves Golden Eyes. It does seem the golden eye customization option was made available to the players because of storyine reasons.

"So the quest to explain that actually happened way back in Sunwell Plateau when Anveena sacrificed herself to cleanse the Sunwell. That's what caused the blood elves to finally lose their fel energy and gain these sort of golden eyes, and you'll start to see that a little bit with some of the paladin and priest blood elf NPCs that are going to be showing up in Battle for Azeroth. They'll have the golden eyes, and then of course the customization option will be available for players because the storyline says that that's where they should be now. But if you want to keep your green eyes because you're a blood elf warlock and that feels right, you do you." -- Trade Chat Interview

[Traycor]

As amazing and powerful as I am, Blizzard is the one determining that superficial differences are enough to be a separate "Race". Look at the Kul Tirans. Fat is considered a race. They really should have labeled them as allied fractions, since all of the ARs are just offshoots of a parent race. At least until Vulpera, who actually will be a new race.

Allied Factions. Exactly. And if we don't feel High Elves are distinct enough, just give them a new model. Problem solved. (Even though some new animations would be all it would actually take to change the silhouette)

[Grythletubs]

So the Alliance gets the High Elves... and since we love elves and all want more elves... the Horde gets the San’layn!

Works for me really. Where do I sign up? ^^

Same. High elves and san'layn/forsaken elves

[Traycor]

Except that there's no reason for there to be separate models when considering Blood Elves ARE High Elves. Changing how High Elves looked would; by proxy and Blizzards own statements, be changing how Blood Elves looked as they are the same race.

No reason for the fat/skinny human models either. Yet we have a bunch of different models for humans. The old skinny defias model, the old fat farmer model, the new kul'tiran model, the new lanky/skinny model and the stormwind human model--all of these are humans.

No reason you can't have a new high elf model.

[FlubberPuddy]

Except that there's no reason for there to be separate models when considering Blood Elves ARE High Elves. Changing how High Elves looked would; by proxy and Blizzards own statements, be changing how Blood Elves looked as they are the same race.

Per Blizzard's own statements, Kul'Tirans are not meant to be a different race. They just created different models for more diversity.

"Non-playable Kul Tiran human models include thin, normal and fat body types. The playable Kul Tiran use the fat body type. They are not intended to be a separate race, they are simply variants on Kul Tirans made because Blizzard wanted bigger and smaller models to fit the various NPC roles and add more flavor to the world. They are not biologically different from other humans.[7][8]"

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Kul_Tiran_(playable)

[Alixie]

Except that there's no reason for there to be separate models when considering Blood Elves ARE High Elves. Changing how High Elves looked would; by proxy and Blizzards own statements, be changing how Blood Elves looked as they are the same race.

Face it dude, physiological changes due to magic, environment, or lifestyle is a better argument for a separate AR than fat and skinny. Humans can come in all kinds of flavors, and I wouldn't mind a skinny "race" of humans added too.

[Strippling]

Keep asking for them folks. We will get them, one day or another. whether it is by new costumisation options or as a new allied race.
I can only hope Silvermoon is turned into a new warfront in the end and the sunwell corrupted again, allowing void elves to grow in number and possibly opening the way to new skin options for them.

The blood elves would be exiled to Suramar so that each faction would have an elven capital magic.

"We want Horde's model AND we also want their city!!!!" and you wonder why high elfers face so much resistance from the community and Blizzard..... smh

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Allied Factions. Exactly. And if we don't feel High Elves are distinct enough, just give them a new model. Problem solved. (Even though some new animations would be all it would actually take to change the silhouette)

If Blizzard were to make high elfs "fat" to differentiate them from blood elfs (just as Kul Tirans have been differentiated from regular SW humans), would you be happy? These "fat" high elfs would still have all the same lore, but their models would be made to look appropriately different from blood elfs to maintain faction identity between Horde and Alliance. I'm gonna go on a whim and say that most high elfers would be pissed if "fat" high elfs were implemented (despite all the lore remaining the same).... and if this is the case then it really is about the model and not about the lore. Further proof that a lot of high elfers are happy with light skin options for void elfs (which would go against void elf lore and wouldn't be the "lore" elfs that they so claim to want).

How about high elfers start petitioning for "fat" high elfs? That way you get all the lore you "desperately" wanted whilst Horde don't have to jeopardize their faction identity just to satisfy the loud minority that is high elfers.

Even then, lore wise the high elven story as a collective whole should predominantly be given to the blood elfs, who are the continuation of high elven society following the events of WCIII. In a blizzcon panel back in 2007?? (TBC blizzcon) Chris Metzen said (while talking about the new Horde race blood elfs) "Blood elfs ARE our high elfs". Blizzards intention was to continue the high elven storyline through the blood elfs... who are still high elfs but changed their name in honor of their fallen kin. Alliance aligned high elfs are nothing but a broken fragment of the main high elven branch, and subsequently any story time focused on them should not come at the expense of taking away story focus from the blood elfs. Like Metzen said... blood elfs are our high elfs and I'd like to maintain that identity for the blood elfs thank you. As things currently stand, I'm okay with high elfs (what little of them are left) to get some story from time to time (as NPCs), but taking that a step further to making them playable is a big fat "no no" from me, as blood elfs already fulfill the high elf trope in the WoW universe. Void elfs already eat into this trope as is.

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Per Blizzard's own statements, Kul'Tirans are not meant to be a different race. They just created different models for more diversity.

"Non-playable Kul Tiran human models include thin, normal and fat body types. The playable Kul Tiran use the fat body type. They are not intended to be a separate race, they are simply variants on Kul Tirans made because Blizzard wanted bigger and smaller models to fit the various NPC roles and add more flavor to the world. They are not biologically different from other humans.[7][8]"

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Kul_Tiran_(playable)

Guess you'll have to settle with "fat" high elfs if you want a slimmer of a chance them ever being playable then.

Blizzard could have just given SW humans different hair colors, different skin tones, some sailor tattoos and called it them Kul Tirans (does this sound familiar??). But no, apparently that wasn't enough to make a new race who are biologically the same as SW humans.. they had to go to the extreme (for lack of a better word) of making Kul Tirans several feet taller and several feet wider.