Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[FlubberPuddy]

Guess you'll have to settle with "fat" high elfs if you want a slimmer of a chance them ever being playable then.

Blizzard could have just given SW humans different hair colors, different skin tones, some sailor tattoos and called it them Kul Tirans (does this sound familiar??). But no, apparently that wasn't enough to make a new race who are biologically the same as SW humans.. they had to go to the extreme (for lack of a better word) of making Kul Tirans several feet taller and several feet wider.

Blizzard hasn't settled for "fat" High Elves, so there's nothing to settle for.

They also haven't closed the book on the High Elf conversation with players per Alex's encouragement so how about letting people ask for what they want to ask for? Blizzard makes the decision in the end, not whoever all of us players thinks is the "right decision."

There's lots of ways Blizzard could have chosen to represent Kul'Tirans and we would be accepting of it either way because that's the reality. Now we can see like how people still complain about Nightborne, that just because players get a race they want, it doesn't mean they're gonna stop asking for it to be improved.

All anyone can do is use examples to show what they want, and all other people can do is either support that or not. If you feel like making "fat" high elfs is the way then go ahead and campaign for it.

It doesn't change anything for those that are coming up with their idea of how they'd like High Elves to be playable. And it sure as hell doesn't change what Blizzard ends up doing about it anyway, whether that's doing something about it or not.

Also

the loud minority that is high elfers

This is false. Jeremy Feasel acknowledged that High Elves are a "community favorite". Therefore if they're a community favorite there can't be only a "minority" that wants them. Being a favorite literally means, "preferred before all others of the same kind".

GODDAMN That's High Elves for ya!



"just an acknowledgement that it's a community favorite as far as ideas go for the future "

[Strippling]

This is false. Jeremy Feasel acknowledged that High Elves are a "community favorite". Therefore if they're a community favorite there can't be only a "minority" that wants them. Being a favorite literally means, "preferred before all others of the same kind".

GODDAMN That's High Elves for ya!



"just an acknowledgement that it's a community favorite as far as ideas go for the future "

Firstly, he said high elfs are a community favorite... not the community favorite. Big difference.

Secondly, high elfs face the most resistance out of any requested AR. So conversely high elfs are a community dislike, which is equally factually correct as saying high elfs are a community favorite.

Thirdly, Ion reiterated in a recent Forbes interview that the Horde-Alliance faction is an integral aspect of WoW. This is the same guy who said high elfs blur faction lines. Given he is the lead developer of WoW... it's safe to say his word or opinion on any matter (such as high elfs) is a representative opinion of the WoW developers as a whole. Yes some devs might be for high elfs, but it's safe to assume that the majority are problem against them and as such the WoW dev team collectively had agreed that they blur faction lines. Many of the WoW community feel the same way too, hence the strong backlash high elf requests receive. I understand "we're just requesting something we really want to play", but sometimes (actually most times) core game aspects (such as faction identity) trump a few players who really want to play a high elf.... especially given "blood elfs are our high elfs" (Metzen 2007).

Fourthly, I can confidently say high elfers are a "loud minority". The official high elf petition had around 670 signatures (a pathetic number for something that is apparently a "community favorite"). On top of this, the high elf thread in the official forum is mostly comprised of the same 10-20 people arguing back and forth (much like this thread). So despite the large number of comments, the mainly come from a small group of people debating back and forth... So despite what you think, the support for high elfs is really only from a small group of hardcore fans (ie loud minority). Comparatively, the classic WoW petition had over 200,000 signatures (dwarfing the high elf petition by nearly 300 times over)... and yet it took Blizzard years before they finally did something and announced WoW classic.

[Obelisk Kai]

As amazing and powerful as I am, Blizzard is the one determining that superficial differences are enough to be a separate "Race". Look at the Kul Tirans. Fat is considered a race. They really should have labeled them as allied fractions, since all of the ARs are just offshoots of a parent race. At least until Vulpera, who actually will be a new race.

Kul Tiran Humans have lived on an island by themselves for over two thousand years. The Kul Tirans who are super sized seem to be the product of that isolation, a key point of differentiation. Clearly it's something in the Kul Tiran water that has led them to become as big as they are in the two millenia of separation.

Blood Elves and Alliance High Elves have been apart for what, ten, fifteen years? And they've been alive for thousands of years too so the past couple of years are a blink of the eye to them.

- - - Updated - - -

snip

Hey my old tweet to Jeremy Feasel. Haven't thought about that in over a year. I pretty much forgot about it because shortly after this tweet, Ion told us 'Blood Elves are High Elves' and everything else pretty much became irrelevant.

You have to remember the context of the time Strippling. Before that interview, the pro High Elf community had convinced itself they were making progress and were about to win. They truly expected a climbdown on the matter of Alliance High Elves. They had forum posts! They had artwork! They had that manifest for High Elves which they kept circulating as if it meant anything. Ion's response was like hitting a brick wall for them. It was even worse because all he did was repeat what he said in the Jessie Cox broadcast (there was a little added snark), thereby proving all the art that had been done and all the forum spam hadn't moved Blizzard a single scintilla.

Of course nothing heals the pro High Elf movement like time and since enough time has elapsed, the fantasy that Blizzard has changed their minds behind the scenes and is looking for the appropriate moment to announce that change of heart has taken root once again. Now that Blizzcon has been announced I am sure the same factors at play on this topic will be happening again and for the seventh or eighth year since I twigged this debate is a thing, someone is going to proclaim Alliance High Elves are DEFINITELY coming this time.

- - - Updated - - -

The comparison between felblood Elves and "Normal" green Orcs is wrong. The orc version of a felblood Elf would be similar to a Fel Orc. They both "overdosed" on demonic blood but Orcs like Thrall never consumed any felblood and still ended up green.

Also, Word of God explicitly stated that the situation of Blood Elven green eyes is extremely similar to the Orcs green skin:

"The situation regarding blood elf eyes is, in fact, extremely similar to that of the green skin of orcs: just being around heavy use of fel magic turned the eyes of the blood elves green. You could be the most pious of priests or most outdoorsy of Farstriders, chances are, if you were a high elf in Quel'Thalas or Outland following the Third War, you were around fel energies, and your eyes would turn green. Like the orcs' skin color, such an effect would take a very long time to wear off. Fel magic works a bit like radiation in this sense; it permeates the area and seeps into anything in the vicinity. Anything near a source of fel magic shows signs of slight corruption, it just so happens that high elves and orcs manifest it in a very visual way."

That Blood Elves didn't turn completely green doesn't necessarily mean that the average Blood Elf was any less fel corrupted than the average Orc before the Sunwell was cleansed at the end of TBC. Orcs and Elves seem to show the effect of Fel corruption in different ways. Orcs for instance have a whole range of eye colors. Do you have a lore source stating the fel corruption of Blood Elves was less than that of Orcs like Thrall ?

Yet Orcish green skin appears to be permanent, and Blood Elf colour is not as the shift from green to golden demonstrated. We can also see that the fel taint within Blood Elves is indeed wearing off, because unlike the Orcs they are hooked up to the super cleansing powers of the Sunwell.

Orcs are an Allied race now ? I must have missed that memo . Also, Word of God explicitly stated that the Orc's green skin color can wear off, just that it takes a very long time.

"Like the orcs' skin color, such an effect would take a very long time to wear off." -- Ask CDev round 3.

Given that it hasn't worn off on Orcs after over thirty years, the time it would take to wear off is likely longer than the average Orc lifespan. It also appears that the Orcs are passing the taint on to their children, who are also born green. We do not know if the taint will become less pronounced with each generation or if each Orcs carries it anew from birth.

From Fel we know it can be cleansed/purged ever since Elune transformed a Satyr back into a Night-Elf so purging/cleansing the Void might be possible as well. The Sataka the Lighteater questline in Legion shows that there are several methods a Dark Naaru can be turned back into a (Light) Naaru such as purging the Void or drawing out void energy. Void-Purged Krokul also exist so it seems purging the Void completely or partially is not impossible although Blizzard of course would never completely remove the void from Void Elves.

You could argue that Cenarius's blessing could be removed from Highmountain Tauren, or the light from Lightforged Draenei, or the Arcane from Nightborne. The point remains all of these groups have been differentiated from their parents by some kind of transformative process that is not going to be reversed even if it hypothetically could be. And even if it hypothetically could be, the level of transformation strongly suggests the complexity involved in undoing it means that for the vast majority of those transformed, a way back is essentially impossible. I mean your example from the fel is the time when they invoked a literal God to reverse the transformation although I hesitate to draw a one to one equivalence. Also, the void purged Krokul, were they fully changed by the Void or were they infected by it and the void purged before the transformation completed?

That's possible but High Elves were never fel corrupted so their starting situation was/is different which may affect their ability to gain golden eyes. We'll see what happens in-game. Arator the Redeemer seems to currently have golden/yellow eyes, but he's a half-elf and his eye color seems to change constantly (it was green in the 3 sisters comic and TBC but changed to blue in patch 3.1.0 and to golden/yellow in BFA). It could also be that he was kind of lightforged after Legion.

Blood Elves were never fel corrupted either, as the Ask CDev answers make clear the manifestation of green eyes is down to fel radiance rather than fel consumption. Fel corruption was the result of drinking the Blood of Mannoroth as the Orcs did.

Arator is a half elf. We must presume Half Elves are not connected to the Sunwell and so whatever is being done with his eyes, as you recognise as being inconsistent, we cannot use as a basis for judgement. I sincerely doubt he is lightforged.

Blood Elves and High Elves are the same race, all feed on the Sunwell, Elven eye colour is mutable based on the energies they are exposed to. The Sunwell is a font of holy and arcane energy. Whilst we continue to disagree on the possibility of blue eyes for Blood Elves, what is beyond doubt is that Blood Elves received golden eyes from the Sunwell. As a result, any biological changes the Blood Elves are undergoing, Alliance High Elves are also subject to because they are the same race being exposed to the same process.

My mistake, I remembered Jeremy Feasel saying they only added golden eyes to some paladins and priests when he explained the lore behind the Blood Elves Golden Eyes. It does seem the golden eye customization option was made available to the players because of storyine reasons.

"So the quest to explain that actually happened way back in Sunwell Plateau when Anveena sacrificed herself to cleanse the Sunwell. That's what caused the blood elves to finally lose their fel energy and gain these sort of golden eyes, and you'll start to see that a little bit with some of the paladin and priest blood elf NPCs that are going to be showing up in Battle for Azeroth. They'll have the golden eyes, and then of course the customization option will be available for players because the storyline says that that's where they should be now. But if you want to keep your green eyes because you're a blood elf warlock and that feels right, you do you." -- Trade Chat Interview

I believe we discussed this quote earlier, despite his inartful articulation of the events of the Sunwell Plateau (which imply it was Anveen's sacrifice that triggered golden eyes, rather than Velen restoring it with the heart of a holy naaru, source literally every other document on those events in game) he does imply the direction of travel for the Blood Elf people is towards golden eyes, as he talks about Warlocks 'keeping' green eyes rather than Paladins and Priests being exceptional in gaining them. And as Blood Elves are High Elves, they travel that path together with Alliance High Elves.

There will be no divergence between Alliance High Elves and Blood Elves on a physical level. They are the same people.

[FlubberPuddy]

Kul Tiran Humans have lived on an island by themselves for over two thousand years. The Kul Tirans who are super sized seem to be the product of that isolation, a key point of differentiation. Clearly it's something in the Kul Tiran water that has led them to become as big as they are in the two millenia of separation.

Clearly there are also Kul'Tiran that look like Stormwind Humans as much, if not more so, than the number of Larger AND Smaller Kul'Tirans. If what you're trying to imply is true then we would have a plethora more of larger/smaller looking Kul'Tiran.

Come to face with this, because it's very clear even after actual Blizzard's official word that they are of the same race, you continuing to believe they're a different race other than Human is going to look more and more silly.

Kul'Tirans prove that you do not need to have some magically altered way to develop different body types. Lifestyle is enough. They are the same race as Stormwind Humans, supported by Blizzard developer comments.

Someone would have to provide Blizzard saying they aren't the same race if they want to continue purporting that they're not the same race.

You have to remember the context of the time Strippling. Before that interview, the pro High Elf community had convinced itself they were making progress and were about to win. They truly expected a climbdown on the matter of Alliance High Elves. They had forum posts! They had artwork! They had that manifest for High Elves which they kept circulating as if it meant anything. Ion's response was like hitting a brick wall for them. It was even worse because all he did was repeat what he said in the Jessie Cox broadcast (there was a little added snark), thereby proving all the art that had been done and all the forum spam hadn't moved Blizzard a single scintilla.

Nothing that Ion changed or affected Jeremy's comment. As Jeremy said, "as far as ideas go for the future", what did Ion say? "No plans in the near term", what did Jeremy say in the beginning of his tweet response, "No news".

As I recall even as they were reading the High Elf question it was Josh Allen that mentioned, "this is a popular question" or something to that effect. Indicating that even on that day, Jeremy's comment of "they're a community favorite" rung true.

Trying to imply that Ion's comment somehow changed what Jeremy said when that was never brought up or mentioned at all is continuing to show a lack of arguing in good faith.

There will be no divergence between Alliance High Elves and Blood Elves on a physical level. They are the same people.

If the paragraph you wrote that included "any biological changes the Blood Elves are undergoing, Alliance High Elves are also subject to" were true then there wouldn't be High Elves with blue eyes around still.

Every single mutation that the Blood Elves went through would have affected all High Elves everywhere. Clearly this is not the case as one can easily see within game and various Blizzard artwork everywhere.

Therefore the comment quoted here is false. On a physical level, High Elves are not subject to the same eye color changes as Blood Elves, therefore physiologically there is some slight difference.

You can only be correct in this regard if Blizzard starts showing us High Elves that have Golden Eyes, as per Jeremy Feasel "they'll have golden eyes...because the storyline says that that's where they should be now."

[Garfurion]

Kul Tiran Humans have lived on an island by themselves for over two thousand years. The Kul Tirans who are super sized seem to be the product of that isolation, a key point of differentiation. Clearly it's something in the Kul Tiran water that has led them to become as big as they are in the two millenia of separation.

Nope. The 3 different body types for Kul Tirans are just to give some flavor and texture to the world.

Word of God (in this case Travis Day): "So, Thin Man and Fat Man are what we call them internally. And no, they’re not intended to be a different race, [they’re] just variants on Kul Tirans. So, generally, when we’re spawning up Kul Tiras on the design side, we looked at using them as kind of our… maybe it’s a little bit like, ‘The big guy’s the bouncer!’ Or, ‘The big guy’s the ruffian who’s got a little guy up by the neck! And then the little guy’s more the scoundrel and they’re always holding daggers or leanin’ up against something,’ and, I don’t know, it just gives us a little more flavor and texture to the world." -- source

Also, Kul Tirans were never isolated long enough, if they even were ever isolated, to evolve into a different body type and even if they did evolve the entire island would have evolved into the same direction due to the founder effect, genetic drift, inbreeding and relatively low genetic variation in general. However there are clearly 3 different models for Kul Tiran NPCs.

[Grythletubs]

The spitewagon is still going hard I see.

"Were okay with high elf npcs, but if people play them it hurts us!"

[Syegfryed]

Kul'Tirans prove that you do not need to have some magically altered way to develop different body types. Lifestyle is enough. They are the same race as Stormwind Humans, supported by Blizzard developer comments.

and what lifestyle do elves difere? human bootlicking? cause they still do the same shit, in a minor spawn of time, kul'tirans had thousand of years in harsh conditions doing totally different world of work

yet, seems that we get a bit fuzzy in the high elf candy, and we forget that kul'tirans do have vrykul/drust ancestry? meaning it was not just lifestyle?

[FlubberPuddy]

and what lifestyle do elves difere? human bootlicking? cause they still do the same shit, in a minor spawn of time, kul'tirans had thousand of years in harsh conditions doing totally different world of work

You've been involved with the discussion for so long you should already know what lifestyle differences have been been mentioned. Rehashing that over and over in a circular discussion is not something I'd like to get involved with.

yet, seems that we get a bit fuzzy in the high elf candy, and we forget that kul'tirans do have vrykul/drust ancestry? meaning it was not just lifestyle?

We just had posts explaining that Travis Day, in an interview, states that Kul'Tirans are not a different race. Where is the proof/evidence that all Kul'Tirans have "vrykul/drust ancestry"?

What does that even mean? Vrykul or Drust? Vrykul + Drust together? All humans evolved from Vrykul that much I know. Don't know what more you're trying to imply.

[Alixie]

Kul Tiran Humans have lived on an island by themselves for over two thousand years. The Kul Tirans who are super sized seem to be the product of that isolation, a key point of differentiation. Clearly it's something in the Kul Tiran water that has led them to become as big as they are in the two millenia of separation.

Blood Elves and Alliance High Elves have been apart for what, ten, fifteen years? And they've been alive for thousands of years too so the past couple of years are a blink of the eye to them.

Clearly it's something in the Kul Tiran water that has led them to become as big as they are in the two millenia of separation.

I like how you pulled this out of your butt. Kul Tiran commoners and leaders come in all shapes and sizes. They just made the fat model its own playable "race", even though all of them are humans. But Im glad you agree that variations of the same race should be playable - you can just headcannon it as they drank contaminated water.

Kul Tiran Humans have lived on an island by themselves for over two thousand years.

Another lie. Kul Tiras shipped and traded with the mainland for a thousand years, and had settlements in the Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor. Blizzard added the mage class to the Kul Tirans after players reminded them that the Kul Tirans founded a mage school/prison in Tol Barad. Kul Tiras was part of the Alliance of Lordaeron until Jaina's treachery lead to the defeat of Daelin Proudmoore less than 15 years ago.

Kul Tirans prove that fat can be distinct enough to be its own "race". And physique doesnt even need 15 years to give an explanation. Unless High Elves and Blood Elves cull anyone that doesnt look like a physically fit 25 year old elf, here's an opportunity to show skinny, fat, old, and biracial High Elves.

[Syegfryed]

You've been involved with the discussion for so long you should already know what lifestyle differences have been been mentioned. Rehashing that over and over in a circular discussion is not something I'd like to get involved with.

no canon differences have been mentioned, just differences you think they should have

they still are just the same generic elf, doing magic shenanigans or ranger crap, and again, the kul'tirans had thousand of years, the elves barely had half a decade

We just had posts explaining that Travis Day, in an interview, states that Kul'Tirans are not a different race. Where is the proof/evidence that all Kul'Tirans have "vrykul/drust ancestry"?

they said they were not intend to be a different race, this don't mean they didn't become one, yet allied race ar enot just "different race" highmountain tauren didn't stop of being tauren

the proof/evidence is the dialogue with Ulfar saying the Thornspeakers left the drust and joined the kul'tiran society.

What does that even mean? Vrykul or Drust? Vrykul + Drust together? All humans evolved from Vrykul that much I know. Don't know what more you're trying to imply.

drusts are seafaring vrykul, some kul'tirans procreate with the drust, and some of then retained some of their characteristics showed by their racials

the humans were degenerated vrykuls, not evolved btw

[Obelisk Kai]

Nope. The 3 different body types for Kul Tirans are just to give some flavor and texture to the world.

Word of God (in this case Travis Day): "So, Thin Man and Fat Man are what we call them internally. And no, they’re not intended to be a different race, [they’re] just variants on Kul Tirans. So, generally, when we’re spawning up Kul Tiras on the design side, we looked at using them as kind of our… maybe it’s a little bit like, ‘The big guy’s the bouncer!’ Or, ‘The big guy’s the ruffian who’s got a little guy up by the neck! And then the little guy’s more the scoundrel and they’re always holding daggers or leanin’ up against something,’ and, I don’t know, it just gives us a little more flavor and texture to the world." -- source

Also, Kul Tirans were never isolated long enough, if they even were ever isolated, to evolve into a different body type and even if they did evolve the entire island would have evolved into the same direction due to the founder effect, genetic drift, inbreeding and relatively low genetic variation in general. However there are clearly 3 different models for Kul Tiran NPCs.

Unsurprisingly, this gets into a gray area.

Whilst the desire for more variety in human models was clearly the impetus behind the creation of the fat and thin models, the fat model (the one that is actually playable) doesn't sit right with a lot of people who don't accept it is just a variation because it is simply too out of kilter with the rest of the world. Why would the fat man model only be introduced there? Why not Stormwind? Or Stromgarde? Or Lordaeron?

There is of course the theory that Kul Tirans carry Drust blood, and Drust are just the local variety of Vrykul. They were the natives of Kul Tiras. We know from Ulfar, last of the Drust and leader of the Thornspeakers, that some Drust did not side with Gorak Tul in his war against the newcomers. They joined Kul Tiran society and taught them Druidism. Isn't if peculiar how the one area of the world where we know Vrykul lived for a time with humans now produces freakishly, abnormally large Humans?

Now I know what you are going to say. 'And no, they’re not intended to be a different race, [they’re] just variants on Kul Tirans' to which of course there is a perfectly consistent explanation.

Vrykul and Humans share a common ancestry. Humans after all, are a degenerate form of Vrykul banished from Vrykul society. In much the same way Blood Elves and Night Elves are Elves, Vrykul and Humans fall into the same racial bucket and would almost certainly be genetically compatible. The first generation would have been a sort of Half Drust I imagine, but the Drust died out farily swiftly and as each generation succeeded the next, the traits became diluted and more widely disseminated throughout the Kul Tiran gene pool. Kul Tirans are absolutely human, in the same way any of us that happens to possess some genetic material from the Neanderthals or the Denisovans is completely Human. Yet that Drust blood manifests in the 'fat' model.

So, as explained, there is a perfectly consistent explanation as to why the Kul Tirans have these freakishly large individuals who live among them so at odds with the rest of the Human race as depicted in game. And the intent behind making them playable seems to be a desire to give the Alliance something as close to a Vrykul as they could without it being a Vrykul, which would simply be far too large for a player model.

Could the theory be wrong? Sure. And if we ever get an explicit statement that they aren't in any way related to the Drust then that'll be good enough for me. But that wasn't the question that was asked in that interview, it was 'Chaud: Are Thin Humans going to be an Allied race, are they NPCs, what’s the weird, thin Human model?' which said nothing regarding their ancestry whatsoever.

As for the thin man, that's just a guy who hasn't gotten enough protein.

Overall though, the point of this dispute is it's relevance to the ongoing High Elf debate. I think it is completely irrelevant, because all thalassian elves have been depicted using the same model for the past decade and a half. If Blizzard thought they should be differentiated, they would have done so long ago. But Blizzard has been clear, again and again and again. Blood Elves and High Elves are the same race, the same race who lived in the same city and country until about fifteen years ago. There is no reason they can or should look different from each other, and even if there WERE a physical variance possible among thalassian elves, comes back to the same question. Why could Blood Elves not use it?

[Traycor]

Kul Tirans prove that fat can be distinct enough to be its own "race". And physique doesnt even need 15 years to give an explanation.

It's interesting that some people think every member of the race has the exact same body type and height in cannon. It should be obvious that High Elves have several different heights and body types. A new model would just represent a different group. No one thinks that the defias with the skinny model are a new "race". They're just workers from Stormwind. The new model is just a different look. It's a design choice. High Elves can easily have the same thing.

[Obelisk Kai]

It's interesting that some people think every member of the race has the exact same body type and height in cannon. It should be obvious that High Elves have several different heights and body types. A new model would just represent a different group. No one thinks that the defias with the skinny model are a new "race". They're just workers from Stormwind. The new model is just a different look. It's a design choice. High Elves can easily have the same thing.

The problem with your logic is that, as Blood Elves and High Elves are the same thing, there is no reason Blood Elves shouldn't have access to the same kinds of look. Anything proposed for Alliance High Elves can and should be equally applied to Blood Elves. This is why every single one of your proposals doesn't work, as any hair style, tattoo or even darker skin tone should logically be shared with the majority of their same race.

This is also why Blizzard went with Void Elves, a transformative process that almost certainly cannot be reversed without great difficulty.

[Uthan]

The problem with your logic is that, as Blood Elves and High Elves are the same thing, there is no reason Blood Elves shouldn't have access to the same kinds of look. Anything proposed for Alliance High Elves can and should be equally applied to Blood Elves. This is why every single one of your proposals doesn't work, as any hair style, tattoo or even darker skin tone should logically be shared with the majority of their same race.

This is also why Blizzard went with Void Elves, a transformative process that almost certainly cannot be reversed without great difficulty.

The problem with your logic is that, as Kul Tiran humans and Stormwind humans are the same thing, there is no reason Stormwind humans shouldn't have access to the same kinds of look. Anything proposed for Kul Tirans can and should be equally applied to Stormwindians. This is why every single one of your proposals doesn't work, as any hair style, tattoo or even darker skin tone should logically be shared with the majority of their same race.

Character customization choices are based on whatever subsection of a "race" that blizzard feels helps differentiate them from the rest and give them their own more or less unique and cool aesthetic, not on what they should have available based on lore (if so we should have tattoos for pretty much all races as well as most hairstyles being shared, etc). The playable Kul Tiran is blizzard limiting us to a specific subgroup simply because it helps differentiate them from other playable humans, and there's no reason they couldn't do the same with Blood elves and High elves, even if lorewise there would be a lot of overlap between them, just as a lot of other "races".

[FlubberPuddy]

they said they were not intend to be a different race, this don't mean they didn't become one, yet allied race ar enot just "different race" highmountain tauren didn't stop of being tauren

the proof/evidence is the dialogue with Ulfar saying the Thornspeakers left the drust and joined the kul'tiran society.

They said "not intended" then go on to explain what that statement meant by adding, "So, generally, when we’re spawning up Kul Tiras on the design side, we looked at using them as kind of our… maybe it’s a little bit like, ‘The big guy’s the bouncer!’ Or, ‘The big guy’s the ruffian who’s got a little guy up by the neck! And then the little guy’s more the scoundrel and they’re always holding daggers or leanin’ up against something,’ and, I don’t know, it just gives us a little more flavor and texture to the world."

Nothing in that further explanation talks about it's due to a mixture of Kul'Tirans procreating with Drust. "Joining a society" isn't the same as "all our people are fucking together now". If that were the case we'd be having a plethora of Half-elves shown in the game due to how long High Elves and Humans have mingled together in Dalaran. This is unconfirmed information you're trying to pass off as fact.

You're being super hypocritical here and others have pointed it out as well. Even Obelisk has to admit it is a theory but still tries to play it up as if it's a justified theory. Doing the same exact thing he calls out other High Elfers of doing.

Developer/aka Word of God is stating they're not a different race and you're pulling unconfirmed theories out to justify something against what a developer has stated. Sound familiar? lmao

You cannot go ahead and ascribe to Ion saying "Blood Elves are High Elves" thus go play Horde to play High Elf if you're going to turn around and then not take Travis Day at his word about Kul'Tirans not being a different race.

It's called a double-standard and posts like this:

The problem with your logic is that, as Blood Elves and High Elves are the same thing, there is no reason Blood Elves shouldn't have access to the same kinds of look. Anything proposed for Alliance High Elves can and should be equally applied to Blood Elves. This is why every single one of your proposals doesn't work, as any hair style, tattoo or even darker skin tone should logically be shared with the majority of their same race.

This is also why Blizzard went with Void Elves, a transformative process that almost certainly cannot be reversed without great difficulty.

Show how easy that double-standard proliferates amongst those against playable High Elves. As it's easily dismantled just down below here:

The problem with your logic is that, as Kul Tiran humans and Stormwind humans are the same thing, there is no reason Stormwind humans shouldn't have access to the same kinds of look. Anything proposed for Kul Tirans can and should be equally applied to Stormwindians. This is why every single one of your proposals doesn't work, as any hair style, tattoo or even darker skin tone should logically be shared with the majority of their same race.

Character customization choices are based on whatever subsection of a "race" that blizzard feels helps differentiate them from the rest and give them their own more or less unique and cool aesthetic, not on what they should have available based on lore (if so we should have tattoos for pretty much all races as well as most hairstyles being shared, etc). The playable Kul Tiran is blizzard limiting us to a specific subgroup simply because it helps differentiate them from other playable humans, and there's no reason they couldn't do the same with Blood elves and High elves, even if lorewise there would be a lot of overlap between them, just as a lot of other "races".

Good way to show the hypocritical nature of some posters.

- - - Updated - - -

It's interesting that some people think every member of the race has the exact same body type and height in cannon. It should be obvious that High Elves have several different heights and body types. A new model would just represent a different group. No one thinks that the defias with the skinny model are a new "race". They're just workers from Stormwind. The new model is just a different look. It's a design choice. High Elves can easily have the same thing.

Also with the lift of transmog restrictions coming soon in 8.2 I think, that allow us to hide everything but pants. All Blizzard would need to have a set differentiation from High Elves and Blood Elves is forced tattoo/warpaint options across the face/body. Just how it is the only thing that defines Wildhammer Dwarves. This can be used for High Elves.

Or they can do things like feather's in all of the hairstyles or the highlights you came up with, basically like how little permanent Highmountain Tauren and Lightforged Draenei got and still became distinct enough to be their own race option - but for High Elves.

Not these Blueberry Blood Elves we ended up with.

Or they can as we've been recently talking about - go ahead with different body modifications to show maybe a beefier, more rugged lifestyle of High Elves with lower magic distinction.

Lots of ideas! Ball is truly in Blizzard's court.

[Traycor]

The problem with your logic is that, as Blood Elves and High Elves are the same thing, there is no reason Blood Elves shouldn't have access to the same kinds of look. Anything proposed for Alliance High Elves can and should be equally applied to Blood Elves. This is why every single one of your proposals doesn't work, as any hair style, tattoo or even darker skin tone should logically be shared with the majority of their same race.

This is also why Blizzard went with Void Elves, a transformative process that almost certainly cannot be reversed without great difficulty.

Void Elves have beards that Blood Elves don't. The void didn't do that. It's just new customization options. High Elves can have that too.

[FlubberPuddy]

Void Elves have beards that Blood Elves don't. The void didn't do that. It's just new customization options. High Elves can have that too.

Mag'har also have hairstyles that aren't on Green Orcs. We can clearly see both races are able to braid their hair and tie them into knots so there shouldn't be any mystical force that should have prevented Green Orcs for being able to do their hair up like Mag'har and vice versa.

Dark Iron Dwarves got additional tattoo customization when never in any history of media portrayal did they have tattoos. So they're an example of even if it never existed in the history of its people, Blizzard can add it in just cuz.

[matrix123mko]

Void Elves have beards that Blood Elves don't. The void didn't do that. It's just new customization options. High Elves can have that too.

Lor'themar is secretly a Void user.

[Garfurion]

So, as explained, there is a perfectly consistent explanation as to why the Kul Tirans have these freakishly large individuals who live among them so at odds with the rest of the Human race as depicted in game. And the intent behind making them playable seems to be a desire to give the Alliance something as close to a Vrykul as they could without it being a Vrykul, which would simply be far too large for a player model.

Actually what is the perfectly consistent is what Blizzard is telling us about Kul Tirans: they're human (Alex Afrasiaibi in a Lost Codex interview without even being asked about it).

Also if Blizzard intended to give the Alliance something similar to Vry'kul they would have given them different beard and hairstyles like this:



Actually telling people the Big Kul Tirans are related to Drust or Vry'kul would have made them more popular with the playerbase so there is no reason for Blizzard to tell people they are just obese/bulky humans.

Overall though, the point of this dispute is it's relevance to the ongoing High Elf debate. I think it is completely irrelevant, because all thalassian elves have been depicted using the same model for the past decade and a half.

That is incorrect. From Burning Crusade till patch 8.1.0 the Silvermoon City Guardians had a unique, modified Night-Elven model, not available to player Blood Elves or High-Elf NPCs.

Also, in Warcraft 3 and Vanilla WoW Night-Elves, High Elves and Blood Elves shared models and every Kul Tiran encountered in Warcraft 2 and WoW prior to BFA used the "normal" human model so it's an irrelevant argument. Blizzard will only make complete new models when it makes sense for them to do so and if it fits in their development cycle.

[Alixie]

The problem with your logic is that, as Blood Elves and High Elves are the same thing, there is no reason Blood Elves shouldn't have access to the same kinds of look. Anything proposed for Alliance High Elves can and should be equally applied to Blood Elves. This is why every single one of your proposals doesn't work, as any hair style, tattoo or even darker skin tone should logically be shared with the majority of their same race.

Kul Tirans are Human. There's no reason why SW humans cant share the same appearances, hair style, tattoos, darker skin tones, different weights, as the Kul Tirans because they are the same race. If my SW Human wants to get fat, they should be allowed access to the fat model used exclusively by Kul Tirans. Its only logical.