Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Gurluas]

Why do people still argue with Obelisk Kai? It's like talking to a wall, he's spent months in this thread dissing High elves. Just ignore him.

[FlubberPuddy]

Having said that, Moorgard confirmed other Elves can be recruited into being Void Elves. High Elves are actually in Telogrus right now, learning. The Void Elf racial leader, Alleria, skipped the Blood Elf stage when she became a Void Elf albeit a unique kind of Void Elf.

Moorgard literally says in the same quotation, "they're not recruiting" and this is exactly why that piece of information wasn't plastered around media sites. Because he and everyone else besides you it seems understands the way in which a Void Elf came to be. "Seeing if they could replicate the process" doesn't mean "they are able to replicate the process".

Another case of twisting a developers words to suit your own instead of taking what is said at face value.

[matrix123mko]

Why do people still argue with Obelisk Kai? It's like talking to a wall, he's spent months in this thread dissing High elves. Just ignore him.

Because he needs some everyday hobby. Also, I learn more lore here.

[Gurluas]

Because he needs some everyday hobby. Also, I learn more lore here.

True I suppose. He tends to twist lore to his agenda though, completely ignoring the variety and subfactions the High elves have in the Alliance to try and lump them all as identical to Blood elves.

If you want to get a deeper understanding of High and Blood elves, check their respective wowpedia page, then check also the Silver Covenant, Quel'danil and Allerian Stronghold pages.

[FlubberPuddy]

This thread is giving me brain damage

Run and never look back D':

Why do people still argue with Obelisk Kai? It's like talking to a wall, he's spent months in this thread dissing High elves. Just ignore him.

I find it interesting to set straight some of the things he mentions because he takes quotes and misrepresents them, when literally in what he quotes it doesn't say what he interprets.

Even though he has on me ignore so he doesn't get to see my responses until someone quotes them. Then he replies to my post indirectly once he sees it.

Crazy how some people can be that.....(word that would probably get me banned) silly, let's go with silly.

[Ielenia]

And has been pointed out often since, that was not a possibility brought up by Blizzard but was brought up instead by the Lost Codex guys. As Ion said 'anything is possible'.

I'd say "high elf customization for void elves" is included in the "anything". Do you not?

You mean the incident where one minor NPC was mistaken for another minor NPC? And which, when it was pointed out to Blizzard, they changed? I'm going to make the argument that that is a very different situation in that mixing up two minor NPCs is quite different from mixing up entire races. And when it was pointed out to Blizzard that some people really want Alliance High Elves, they didn't 'fix' the oversight as they did with the two wildhammer dwarves, they restated their position that Blood Elves are High Elves and that Void Elves are an Alliance alternative.

I'm pretty sure fixing a mix-up between two NPCs can be more quickly be resolved than adding an entire race to the Alliance.

Nothing stops a Blood Elf defecting to the High Elves. The moment you find an in game example or someone on the dev team saying it's possible is the moment it will stop being merely a hypothesis.

I don't think I ever claimed it as being anything but?

As for the number of High Elves you see around, given their time and again referenced low population, unless that NPC has a name it is likely you are seeing the same small group of elves moving from zone to zone.

Hardly, considering we see big groups at the same time, like, for example, in the quests leading to Zul'Aman.

Someone guarding Dalaran in Wrath could have been present on the Isle of Thunder in MOP, could have been one of the few to accompany the assault on Suramar and could be one of the two High Elves maintaining the shield aboard the Alliance airship in the warfront.

I find it a bit hard to consider that idea, as I don't think Dalaran would leave itself unguarded, or barely guarded, at any time.

We do have implicit in game evidence that Void Elves are converting other Elves into Void Elves, namely the Elves now clustering in Telogrus delighted they can study shadow magic and the fact the in game representation of Void Elf numbers is completely at odds with the tiny group present at the initial event that created them.

It still doesn't mean they're a group big enough "to be a race" while still disqualifying the high elves on the same grounds. I mean, the original void elf group is just the research team that were banished from Silvermoon. I honestly doubt that a horde of elves suddenly flocked to that group at nearly the same time and asked to be turned into void elves to make them a "viable playable race" in terms of population.

Then I fail to see what your problem is.

You don't "fail" to see what our problem is. You just refuse to see it. We don't want blood elves. We want high elves. And void elves? They're blood elves.

Blood Elves ARE High Elves. Your demand is predicated on ignoring this inconvenient fact stated by the developers.

But not all high elves are blood elves. And your refusal is predicated on ignoring this inconvenient fact stated by the game's lore itself. The Silver Covenant are not comprised of blood elves. They're high elves. So are the elves in Allerian Stronghold, etc.

[Yarathir]

Give Void Elves High Elf customization option please and let's be done with it.

Obviously, some High Elf fanatics still won't be happy because it means they can't play their High Elf Paladin, but whatever.

[Grythletubs]

Most his posts tend to end in some themed variation of "I know you are but what am I" when the counter arguments he tries gets proven inaccurate.

Some people can't admit when they're wrong.

Well to be fair, he's been heavily invested into this topic for more than a year now.

Admitting that he's wrong would be pretty embarassing after all that time. I just find it amusing that the same spiteful negative nancies are still going hard after so long.

[Obelisk Kai]

Well to be fair, he's been heavily invested into this topic for more than a year now.

Admitting that he's wrong would be pretty embarassing after all that time. I just find it amusing that the same spiteful negative nancies are still going hard after so long.

Why should I admit I am wrong when I am right?

I have plentiful source material and lead developers to quote in regards to my core statement, that Alliance High Elves cannot become an Allied Race because a.) they are already playable and b.) they would undermine the integrity of the Horde faction.

Which is a very short summation of what Ion said when asked point blank about Alliance High Elves during the Q and A over a year ago.

What evidence does the pro High Elf side have to say I am wrong? Nothing really, just a wish things hadn't turned out they way they had.

Even in the unlikely event that Alliance High Elves were to be added, I would feel no embarrassment for my stance, because everything I am arguing is rooted in the game as it is right now.

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I'd say "high elf customization for void elves" is included in the "anything". Do you not?

High Elf like customization for Void Elves is something I do not say is impossible, because it clearly isn't and could happen. It is likely what Blizzard would try should they decide to revisit the issue. This is not to say it is an idea I would support, nor is it one I would think would work. I would not support it because it undermines Void Elves, their skin tones are a consequence of their transformation, Alleria excepted because of the unique circumstances she came about her powers and even then Alleria has a dedicated form for when her powers are in full flight. Nor would it work because it still wouldn't be a High Elf and wouldn't have access to the Paladin class. That, and as I regularly point out, nowhere does anyone say 'High Elf exact'. They said 'High Elf like'. If Blizzard were to attempt this, what they end up giving Void Elves maybe pretty far from what was wanted. A classic monkey's paw.

I'm pretty sure fixing a mix-up between two NPCs can be more quickly be resolved than adding an entire race to the Alliance.

And it was. The point is that the two issues are not equivalent. Attempting to equate the situation over the two wildhammer dwarves, where the developers confused two minor characters, with something far more fundamental such as what a Blood Elf is, is not a credible counter-point yet it is one that is continually brought up again and again with the insinuation that the developers don't know what they are talking about. It's a nonsensical notion that isn't called out often enough.

I don't think I ever claimed it as being anything but?

Yet we have no evidence that it has ever happened. I don't believe there is a single green eyed Elf among the Silver Covenant, nor has a developer in an interview stated that Blood Elves sometimes defect to the Alliance as High Elves. Is it theoretically possible? Sure.

Hardly, considering we see big groups at the same time, like, for example, in the quests leading to Zul'Aman.

And canonically Zul'Aman was dealt with by the Horde according to Chronicles. Do you believe those few Elves, and there aren't that many there by the way, are still waiting outside Zul'Aman? Or did they go home to Dalaran once the threat was dealt with, participate in the purge and then in the isle of thunder? If the group is tiny, and we have multiple sources affirming the Alliance High Elf population is miniscule, then the in game representation cited as proving they are actually numerous is best explained by the fact the instances they appear in are separated by time and that in each case, we are more or less looking at the same group of Elves.

I find it a bit hard to consider that idea, as I don't think Dalaran would leave itself unguarded, or barely guarded, at any time.

Dalaran has it's own military and the Kirin Tor is full of Mages. When the city was assaulted by the Legion at the beginning of Legion, the Kirin Tor led the fightback. I would quote the Mage manga where the Kirin Tor fought against invading blue dragons as well but I am unsure of it's canonicity.

It still doesn't mean they're a group big enough "to be a race" while still disqualifying the high elves on the same grounds. I mean, the original void elf group is just the research team that were banished from Silvermoon. I honestly doubt that a horde of elves suddenly flocked to that group at nearly the same time and asked to be turned into void elves to make them a "viable playable race" in terms of population.

What it means is that Void Elves cannot 'run out'. You can always handwave another batch if the story requires it. Alliance High Elves cannot replenish their losses as Void Elves can. This is the lore rationale behind no Alliance High Elves, their extremely low population numbers.

You don't "fail" to see what our problem is. You just refuse to see it. We don't want blood elves. We want high elves. And void elves? They're blood elves.

Which brings up the usual two counter-points.

a.) Blood Elves are High Elves, so if you wish to play an original style thalassian elf, the Horde is waiting for you.

b.) The confirmation that Alliance High Elves are able to become Void Elves, therefore skipping the entire being a Blood Elf stage. If you cannot stomach the Horde at all, your very own thalassian elf variant unique to your faction is available to you. So loyal to the Alliance they even come in blue.

But not all high elves are blood elves. And your refusal is predicated on ignoring this inconvenient fact stated by the game's lore itself. The Silver Covenant are not comprised of blood elves. They're high elves. So are the elves in Allerian Stronghold, etc.

Not the strongest counter-point either. That not all High Elves are Blood Elves is irrelevant.. Every race in the game seemingly has a disloyal sub-group people can point at and say they can be added to the other side. The Tauren have the Grimtotem. The Trolls have the Amani. The Humans have the Defias. The Gnomes have the Leper Gnomes. I can go on. The Orcs have the Dragonmaw.
The option to play a High Elf is available and currently in game. Replicating that option to the other faction is disrespectful both to the Blood Elves and their narrative, as well as the integrity of the Horde faction. A line must be drawn somewhere to maintain the integrity of the factions, and it has been drawn against Alliance High Elves.

[FlubberPuddy]

Why should I admit I am wrong when I am right?

Damn, not even talking about you Obelisk in that exchange, but Syegfred. Oh boi.

Even in the unlikely event that Alliance High Elves were to be added, I would feel no embarrassment for my stance, because everything I am arguing is rooted in the game as it is right now.

It's good to acknowledge the possibility it happens at least. This last bolded bit is nonsensical though.

The entire premise of advocating for playable race options comes from the desire to have something that isn't "rooted in the game as it is right now".

What you're basically is saying is that players can't ask for any changes because they have to go by "how the game is right now". When every change desired in history stems from not being content with the "right now".

Incredibly out of touch statement to make, unless someone is a total yes man to everything the WoW developers put into the game. Something tells me that isn't the case, but like I said (with proof), some people just don't expose themselves to a certain subject anymore once they're proven wrong and just quiet themselves.

As was the case with the addition of Nightborne.

[Ielenia]

Yet we have no evidence that it has ever happened.

Which is why it's called an hypothesis. You even correctly called it as such. Do I need to list dictionary definitions?

And canonically Zul'Aman was dealt with by the Horde according to Chronicles. Do you believe those few Elves, and there aren't that many there by the way, are still waiting outside Zul'Aman? Or did they go home to Dalaran once the threat was dealt with, participate in the purge and then in the isle of thunder? If the group is tiny, and we have multiple sources affirming the Alliance High Elf population is miniscule, then the in game representation cited as proving they are actually numerous is best explained by the fact the instances they appear in are separated by time and that in each case, we are more or less looking at the same group of Elves.

Considering Dalaran guards and Silver Covenant rangers are not one and the same.. I don't think they are. And let me tell you that this assumption of yours is equally valid if we turn them toward the void elves: who's to say that 'rando VE #37' you see walking around Stormwind isn't the same 'rando VE' you meet while questing in Kul'Tiras/Zandalar?

Dalaran has it's own military and the Kirin Tor is full of Mages. When the city was assaulted by the Legion at the beginning of Legion, the Kirin Tor led the fightback. I would quote the Mage manga where the Kirin Tor fought against invading blue dragons as well but I am unsure of it's canonicity.

You were the one who implied that Dalaran would send its guards to fight.

What it means is that Void Elves cannot 'run out'. You can always handwave another batch if the story requires it.

So we can with high elves. Blizzard could "handwave" another group into existence, or "handwave" their numbers. It wouldn't be their first time either. "Handwave". It's basically the more polite version of "asspull".

a.) Blood Elves are High Elves

But not all high elves are blood elves. There you go, ignoring 'inconvenient facts' again.

b.) The confirmation that Alliance High Elves are able to become Void Elves, therefore skipping the entire being a Blood Elf stage.

So why are you against adding high elf customization to the void elves?

Not the strongest counter-point either. That not all High Elves are Blood Elves is irrelevant..

So you're "handwaving" 'inconvenient facts' away?

It is relevant because high elves as a separate faction, opposite to blood elves, and as part of the Alliance, already exist. The only thing that we're asking... is that they're made playable.

[MechaCThun]

Give Void Elves High Elf customization option please and let's be done with it.

Obviously, some High Elf fanatics still won't be happy because it means they can't play their High Elf Paladin, but whatever.

But then... they won't be Void Elves... ?

[Yarathir]

But then... they won't be Void Elves... ?

Alleria is still a Void Elf while her regular form is High Elven. She isn't constantly purple either.

[MechaCThun]

Alleria is still a Void Elf while her regular form is High Elven. She isn't constantly purple either.

Valid point. Completely forgot about Alleria.

(she's become rather forgettable since coming back into the game )

[Ielenia]

And yet when Devs stated they are too few in number the High Elf movement disregards or claims they're wrong. The creators of the story. You're basically saying the writer/dictators of the story are wrong.

No one is saying they're "wrong", it's just that, as "creators/dictators of the story" they have the power to add more high elves. They did so with demon hunters. They could do so with high elves.

Their transformations are not the same. Alleria became a VE by consuming the heart of a fallen dark Naruu. Everyone else was forcefully transformed via ritual.

The playable void elves are not the research team that were forcefully transformed. It's likely that the playable void elves undergo a "safer and more controlled" transformation.

[Alixie]

Why do people still argue with Obelisk Kai? It's like talking to a wall, he's spent months in this thread dissing High elves. Just ignore him.

He refuses to respond to me because I blew his arguments apart.

Its impossible to have multiple playable versions of the same race!

Humans prove otherwise.

If they are the same race, then they must all have the same uniform appearance!

Humans prove otherwise.

B...but Mommy and Daddy said X is true!

Word of God said Kul Tirans are Humans, making my counter argument true. It proves we can have multiple playable versions of the same race, and that the race can different appearances.

[Obelisk Kai]

He refuses to respond to me because I blew his arguments apart.

Actually i tend not to respond to you as I seem to get a flurry of responses for what I post and I prioritise responding to those I have been engaged in lengthier conversation with given how much time composing appropriate responses takes. But if you want to think it's because you've unanswerable arguments, that's entirely your choice. Don't worry, if you make a point that catches my interest I will respond.

[DeicideUH]

And yet when Devs stated they are too few in number the High Elf movement disregards or claims they're wrong. The creators of the story. You're basically saying the writer/dictators of the story are wrong.

And yet the same creators introduced void elves, with way less numbers, and made them playable, so the point was invalidated by the devs themselves.

Actually, void elves debunked almost every single reason given against high elves. Can't have cross-faction models? Check. Little population? Check.

Second point see above.

See above. You know, devs make mistakes or contradict themselves sometimes.

Third point, you are. You're replicating an experience that already exists on the Horde. You want a plain High Elf? The closest thing is a Blood Elf as they are High Elves, and they are playable. Creating playable Alliance based High Elves would detract from what is already available.. especially considering Blizzard doesn't like blurring the faction lines.

There's absolutely no high elf experience in the Horde.

Indeed, in the Horde you are sent to fight high elves.

[Aldo Hawk]

Moorgard literally says in the same quotation, "they're not recruiting" and this is exactly why that piece of information wasn't plastered around media sites. Because he and everyone else besides you it seems understands the way in which a Void Elf came to be. "Seeing if they could replicate the process" doesn't mean "they are able to replicate the process".

Another case of twisting a developers words to suit your own instead of taking what is said at face value.

Well, i interpret that phrase as Void elves not recruiting, but accepting those searching for them, implying that not very large groups of elves are searching them, but individuals interested in their group.

That is what we see in Telogrus rift, blood and high elves going there to learn about Void elves, what happens with them is uncertain until something shows up in game.

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I find it interesting to set straight some of the things he mentions because he takes quotes and misrepresents them, when literally in what he quotes it doesn't say what he interprets.

Even though he has on me ignore so he doesn't get to see my responses until someone quotes them. Then he replies to my post indirectly once he sees it.

Crazy how some people can be that.....(word that would probably get me banned) silly, let's go with silly.

He even ignores responses where you are quoted, it's so funny... XD

I suggest everyone to quote FlubberPuddy, seriously, it seems to give Obekisk high blood pressure or something.

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It still doesn't mean they're a group big enough "to be a race" while still disqualifying the high elves on the same grounds. I mean, the original void elf group is just the research team that were banished from Silvermoon. I honestly doubt that a horde of elves suddenly flocked to that group at nearly the same time and asked to be turned into void elves to make them a "viable playable race" in terms of population.

It's simpler than that, really.

As i said to lovely @Strippling You don't have civilians and also an army while having less population than a squad, going away from there suggesting that if some elves that are coming there out of curiosity and interest, not because they got recruited, are going to make the high elves a tinier group in comparison is utter bullshit XDDDD

[Aldo Hawk]

Give Void Elves High Elf customization option please and let's be done with it.

Obviously, some High Elf fanatics still won't be happy because it means they can't play their High Elf Paladin, but whatever.

If you don't truly care you are not being forced into coming in here and spouting this thing, seriously, you could save that up to yourself.

Seriously, coming in a place where you don't care about the matter and throw something like this shows a lack.

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Well to be fair, he's been heavily invested into this topic for more than a year now.

Admitting that he's wrong would be pretty embarassing after all that time. I just find it amusing that the same spiteful negative nancies are still going hard after so long.

Embarrassing and crippling.

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Why should I admit I am wrong when I am right?

Because you have been pointed out many times that your stance is just another stance different than ours and at the same time doesn't cancel ours?

Seriously, if after all that time you can't see HE as a valid option you have to have a great problem in hand.

You are even scared of Afrasiabi telling HE like customization could go to VE because you can't say anything about it, because if you do, all your fallacy of authority falls in your face XD

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Damn, not even talking about you Obelisk in that exchange, but Syegfred. Oh boi.

LOL

I didn't even noticed! XDDDDDD

He does truly have an obsession with you.

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Even in the unlikely event that Alliance High Elves were to be added, I would feel no embarrassment for my stance, because everything I am arguing is rooted in the game as it is right now.

Good to know you are control damaging by now, you are a farsighted one, Obelisk.

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But then... they won't be Void Elves... ?

That's the worst thing. It would be a damp bad aid, so there's more possibility of it not happening than it being.

And if it does happen, those could not be called high elves. Not because they couldn't be paladins, but because their racials and interaction with the world dictates a different thing, while also not having a mount, heritage armor, racial HUB, quests for them, etc...

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Alleria is still a Void Elf while her regular form is High Elven. She isn't constantly purple either.

Valid point. Completely forgot about Alleria.

(she's become rather forgettable since coming back into the game )

Alleria is a different kind of Void elf. She considers herself both things, a High elf and a Void elf, as quotes from game shows.

While she also did came into being by a different method.