Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Chemical Ellis]

I really like the concept here. Even the silly hair! I think this really cuts to the heart of what modern Quel'dorei are in Warcraft.

Lots of folks are raging against this, or saying 'no more elves,' but I think it's worth examining just WHY people roll new races, what makes Quel'dorei a valid concept.

The simplest reason: appearance. And it's a biggie. We don't want something that detracts from an existing Horde race. Well, Pandaren and Void Elves already blow that argument out of the water. And really, how significant is this? I've got half a dozen toys that can make me look like pretty much any existing race I desire (including Belves).

The other big one: racials. But this is mostly irrelevant to a discussion that generally stays away from mechanics.

So, the most significant reason? The fantasy. To be part of the game world. It feels good to roll up an undead, go through Silverpine as one of Sylvanas' soldiers, live some zombie escapism. Being a hulking, noble Tauren is some folks' preferred way to experience Azeroth. It's gratifying to rally behind leaders, have a place in your faction, fight in support of it (hell, BfA is built around this whole concept).

And this is why people keep asking for High Elves. They're not a new elf race. They're the first elf race. The one who defines such a significant part of the Alliance, in the novels, in the RTSs, in Wrath, MoP, Legion. And this is because they define a unique culture - very different from that of the Blood Elves. In fact, the schism between them has existed since long before the 3rd War.

Silvermoon has always been magocratic, exceptionalist, with hints of fascism. They're arrogant, aloof, yet selfish and pragmatic. When the Horde came, they sent a token force to Lordaeron, the bare minimum to honor their commitment to the line of Thoradin. These were not the elves who fought and died alongside the humans and dwarves. No, those elves were the farstriders under Alleria. Farstriders who already lived outside Silvermoon proper, on the outskirts, who were sniffed at by the leaders of their society, who placed a deeper value on duty - both to the line of Thoradin, and to a world in peril. These elves were individualistic, zealous, and honor bound.

It's this same sense of duty, and near single-minded devotion to a particular set of values, that drove a large contingent of Quel'dorei to again break with their kingdom, and accompany the Sons of Lothar on a suicide mission to Draenor, even as Silvermoon had firmly turned its back on the Alliance. This same mindset that drove these Farstriders to reject Kael, the magisters, the fel, and stick by their allies and their identity after the devastation of the 3rd War.

Some supporters invoke the whole Legolas concept, but one of the things I actually most appreciate about Quel'dorei is that they're not Tolkien elves. Sure, they have values, they've their own system of honor. But this also fuels vengeance, zealotry, extremism. This is the point of view that led Alleria to spend two years hunting down the orcs fleeing for mountains and caves, and systematically exterminating them after the 2nd War. This is the extremism that drove the Silver Covenant to attack unarmed civilians in the Purge of Dalaran. They are dogmatic, they never forget a grudge, and this does not make them good guys.

We can't play a race like this in WoW, despite how heavily the Quel'dorei have featured across multiple expansions. I'd like to be able to play as one of these elves, someone who identifies with Quel'dorei culture, who can rally behind the High Elf leaders already in game, who can represent that fierce, dogmatic heart of the Alliance, who is invested in the High Elf storyline. This doesn't necessarily mean they have to look like blue-eyed Belves (honestly, if they'd made Void Elves out of Sons of Lothar High Elves, transmogrified against their will, I wouldn't be making this post). But they NEED to be Quel'dorei.

[valky94]

didnt blizz pull void elves from their ass hat just so they dont have to make high elves playable?

[Deleted]

Everything great, except High elven Jack Sparrow.

Yeah sure, let's give the Alliance another copy of the most popular Horde race, this time with more customization options than the original. That's just what this game needs /s.

No, it would be copy of an Alliance race - Void elves.

[Deleted]

These are horrible. Jack Sparrow is hilarious

[Doffen]

didnt blizz pull void elves from their ass hat just so they dont have to make high elves playable?

More likely it was because Horde got Night Elves(and vica versa) So they gave Night Elves to Horde and Blood Elves to Alliance.

But yeah, Alliance got Void Elves now. It's a good mix of High Elf, Blood Elf, Dark Ranger etc. I like it at least :P

[MORGATH99]

dont you think we have too many elven races already ?

[therealbowser]

It's time to move on. Alliance got void elves. They aren't getting high elves, no matter what method you try to use for implementing them.

You're welcome to theorycraft of course and I'm not just trying to put a damper on your thread, but this really just feels like you are struggling to find a way, somehow, to get high elves as a playable race. I'm sorry... it just isn't going to work.

On topic, ignoring the fact that this concept sadly is not going to work, I do like some of the art you've put forth in trying to give these elven rangers war paint/tattoos. I'd love to see Blizzard take advantage of this for NPCs. It's definitely strange that all of the rangers from Warcraft II never really got this treatment in further games... specifically WoW's blood elven rangers.

That said... maybe not exact copies of what you're showing off. No offense, lol. It's very rough around the edges, but giving rangers war paint is an interesting idea IMO.

[Deleted]

dont you think we have too many elven races already ?

We do, that is why Void elves should never exist.

[Paraka]

Are we at that stage were we just make up Elves to complain about not having?

I mean, you already had High Elves to go on about, and now you have Nightborne. Y'all like to hate that you don't have all the Elves.

[therealbowser]

No.

You want to play High Elves? Good news, you can! They're called Blood Elves.

Oh...

You don't want to play Horde because they hurt your feel feels? Well... good news! There's the Void Elves!

Still not good enough? Well.. there's plenty of other MMO's out there in the MMO Sea. Go! Jump in and drown already and find what you want somewhere else.

This topic is as old as WoW itself; Blizzard FINALLY meets this crowd halfway, and it's still not good enough.

Come to terms and move on already ffs.

Not as harshly as I'd put it, but it explains this pretty well. This is a case of having your cake and wanting to eat it to (odd analogy, sure, but you get the point).

Void elves are as close to high elves as the Alliance is going to get. The fact they are not readily accepted is likely intentional. If Blizzard added literal high elves, the faction balance would suffer worse than ever before. Even with void elves, they are taking a gamble.

[Aeula]

I noticed in the other thread that you want two elf races added to horde. Me thinks your motives are tainted

I was mostly joking about that.

Though I do want Wretched, but that’s because they’d add another narrative dynamic that I’d be interested to RP with. Unlike High Elves who are basically Blood Elves with 50% of their lore gutted, blue eyes and a penchant for breeding with Humans.

[Deleted]

Not as harshly as I'd put it, but it explains this pretty well. This is a case of having your cake and wanting to eat it to (odd analogy, sure, but you get the point).

Void elves are as close to high elves as the Alliance is going to get. The fact they are not readily accepted is likely intentional. If Blizzard added literal high elves, the faction balance would suffer worse than ever before. Even with void elves, they are taking a gamble.

There would be no imbalance. High elves are requested by few vocal fanatics. /s

[Jokubas]

This is pretty cool.

After the Pandaren, and after the introduction of the Allied Race system especially, I've never needed high elves to really be different than blood elves. Certainly, different options would be on the table (less reddish hair colors, maybe a different idle stance, etc.), but races have been proven that they don't need to be distinct, and with the difference between high and blood elves being cultural/political, I'd prefer them being hard to distinguish than completely reinventing them and defeating the purpose of adding them.

That said, I think this is a brilliant solution. I've thought about the slightly different portrayal of the elves in Warcraft II before, but was afraid to commit to anything atypical in selling playable high elves. I still feel like the magic is important to the high elves (we first met the Silver Covenant in Dalaran after all), and I don't want to make the high elves better wild elves than the night elves. Seeing these Warcraft II concepts visualized in World of Warcraft suddenly makes me feel dumb for having those fears. They look great, and I feel like they suddenly have their own niche without betraying or reinventing their history.

This also works with the way I've interpreted the high elves being when compared to the blood elves. Despite initially being a desperate race that had turned to dark powers, the blood elves ended up turning out to be pretty nice after confronting their past. Meanwhile, with the Purge of Dalaran actually being headed up by Vereesa and carried out by the rest of the Silver Covenant, the high elves have been painted as more aggressive in comparison. It's an interesting mirror from the typical portrayals of the factions they're on that I think could be a really interesting dynamic.

Finally, saying that the blood elves were the pampered nobles compared to the high elves would actually line up pretty well with the lore without any retcons, and push the racial distinction in the lore as well as visually. In Warcraft III, the Alliance had a couple of high elf units. The description for those units mentioned that while Quel'thalas officially left the Alliance after the Second War, many of them remained loyal to the Alliance. Some of these high elves were among those who traveled with Jaina to Kalimdor, and I'm willing to bet that many of these are the ones who are in the Silver Covenant and remain with the Alliance to this day. It would make a lot of sense that, after the Second War, the pampered nobles were the ones to just go back to their homes and stay safely behind their borders, while the more common or military elves valued their time with the Alliance more and were the ones to stay with them, and are the ones who could be playable now.

[Deleted]

Cool edits, but... well, no more elves, please. Void Elves are too much.

Instead I would propose warpaints like that for every race (humans, NE, BE, trolls etc.), also '80 hair would fit both BE and humans as well.

[Obelisk Kai]

Another thread? Why another thread? There is already a thread about this!

I swear this topic needs moderation. Maybe some sort of megathread just to keep it contained in one spot rather than spreading like a cancer through the forums.

- - - Updated - - -

didnt blizz pull void elves from their ass hat just so they dont have to make high elves playable?

Yes, they did. It's not as if they forgot about High Elves when designing allied races either.

This is a link to an interview conducted with Ion Hazzikostas in 2014

http://www.videogameszone.de/World-o...lisch-1110814/

Skip ahead to the 7 minute mark and he is asked about sub-races. In his response he talks about 'Brown skinned Orcs' and High Elves.

Skip forward to 2017 after BFA and Allied races are announced and look at this interview with Ion by Jessie Cox

https://youtu.be/DkdTS_8Y61Q?t=18m2s

You might have to skip ahead to the 18 minute mark to get that.

He is asked about the brown skinned Orcs and the High Elves, and responds with 'Blood Elves ARE High Elves'.

Now, what can we logically conclude from these two videos.

The 2014 video was done before the system was set in stone. I mean we knew it was coming at that point after the video, you can even find the MMO champion thread discussing it at https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lves-quot-etc) .

That thread captures some of the initial reactions to the first video. Some players felt it meant High Elves were on the table. Admittedly I seem to have gone a bit trollish by saying if High Elves happened they'd be a Horde race. I thought they'd never breach the faction wall...which they did...but I was right that the Alliance would never get High Elves.

My real thinking on that interview was that Ion was throwing out examples of race requests he had seen on the forums and hadn't really looked into it.

I was confident that once the team knuckled down and began working through the system, they would inevitably rule out High Elves due to them being identical to Blood Elves.

So in 2014 we have an Ion who hadn't really thought this through. In 2017 an Ion who would have been involved in vetting which Allied races would be added to the game. 2014 Ion is detached from the subject, and 2017 Ion is on top of the topic and gives a confident answer.

The funny thing is, Blizzard did what Alliance players asked. For years on these debates, when pointed out that High Elves were exactly the same as the Blood Elves and there was no point in adding them, High Elf fans said Blizzard COULD alter them and make them playable and that those of us opposed were being stubborn in saying it couldn't be done.

Yet the Void Elves are exactly that, a modified High Elf. And still the outrage continues. So what is wanted is a High Elf that is different from a Blood Elf. But not different at all.

Which Blizzard has clearly ruled out. After all, if they wanted to give the Alliance a Blood Elf clone or even something that just had different hair styles they would have.

Void Elves were created specifically to give the Alliance the model but not a complete duplicate. Their existence confirms High Elves on the Alliance are not happening.

[Airwaves]

No more elves. Please no more elves! Give us some savage races.

[Deleted]

So far, the biggest roadblock to adding High Elves as an allied race seems to be their lack of distinction from Blood elves. This is a thread for brainstorming design options that could set them apart. I looked back at the Warcraft II concepts and in game characters, and here is what I came up with.


High Elves are, by their nature, fundamentalists/traditionalists. These older designs highlight the survivalist, nomadic lifestyle the Silver Covenant has been forced to adopt. Blood Elves are pampered, high society types that rely heavily on magic. By contrast, the High Elves would seem more "primitive" or back to basics. Plus, all these design changes fit right in with established lore, as seen in the examples.

Heritage Armor: They could have something with a Ranger feel, as all elves back in the WC2 era were designed to look like rangers no matter what their class was (all franchises were this way). Play up their paramilitary feel. Use a head piece that does not obstruct the hair/war paint such as a headband, tiara, or thrown-back hood.

What are your ideas? What unique design elements could be added to Silver Covenant High Elves to make them stand out?



Based on the feedback in the thread, here are some new hairstyles and eye colors.

its never gonna happen high elves are neutral they are not with the alliance and will NEVER be playable for alliance they are under dalaran which is neutral and not under alliance the only high elves that are with alliance are so few not even hundred so yeah blizzard would never make such a big lore abbomination thats why it was easier for them to create the idiotic void elfs because it was easier than the shit storm they would get for giving high elfs to alliance

[Oswen]

WC2 inspired High Elves are not a bad idea and I agree that it could have been a way to introduce them to the Alliance.

That ship has sailed with Void Elves, however, those are what Alliance will ever get regarding this matter; the only mistake Blizzard did was to not make the "Void Elves" a direct evolution of those existing "Alliance High Elves" instead of "Exiled Blood Elves" and silence the fandom once and for all with some new made up lore.

It is not reasonable to expect High Elves to show up now, can you imagine the Alliance getting two "Blood Elf subraces" models while the Horde, which has Blood Elves as a core race, has noone?
I think that the future of "Alliance High Elves" is pretty much done, if Blizzard is smart they'll probably kill them all off soon, turn them into Void Elves or just integrate them further with humans and open up to some sort of half elves subrace down the line which wouldn't really be that odd considering we have already a few important lore npcs who are half elves themselves (Alodi, Arathor, Vereesa's children etc).

[KyrtF]

I'll offer this as an offshoot of an idea...

I never wanted High Elves but if Blizzard are going to give my model out anyway, at least we can try to stop all the whining

High Elfs get the human or Night Elf model
High Elfs move away from magic and the Light
High Elf architecture based upon the Roman look of the Night Elf Empire
High Elf ruled by a ViceRoy...Ranger Lord Hawkspear perhaps
High Elfs get bases in Loch Modan, Hinterlands and Plaguelands. The existing lodges built up using a mix of Night Elf, Blood Elf and High Elf architecture
High Elf classes....Warrior, Rogue, Death Knight, Hunter, Druid, Shaman, Warlock
High Elfs are accompanied by the San'layn forces, the Darkfallen (source for High Elf Death Knights; NOT added to DK starting area). Warlocks and
DK get undead skin.
Silver Covenant seen as radicals holding onto the old ways
Mounts...moose and eagle
High Elf numbers larger than suspected (by players...use some of the ideas in the many, many, many threads if an explanation is wanted) and growing but they are still paranoid about defence and extinction.
Racial drives...cure for the fel taint, proactive defence (assassination and the like)
Heritage armour....Stereotypical Roman centurion

[Felrane]

Hopefully Blizzard is planning on killing the Silver Covenent off in the prepatch. Then give Bloodelves blue and gold eye options with more tattoo options. Add a new neutral village of high elves outside silvermoon. Done.