Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Garfurion]

I don't think Blizzard really had a plan for the future of the High Elves in vanilla beyond adding in a few as a legacy of what had passed. The problem with 'non-magical elves', particularly thalassian elves, is that it is an impossibility. As Illidan said, there is no cure for the addiction, it can only be managed. Even those whom, like most Alliance High Elves it seems, do not use magic, they will still have to deal with their addiction.

That addiction and how they deal with it does add character to the race though. A race without any historical issues can become boring very quickly.

Magic is the inescapable burden of their race.

Doesn't the new Sunwell "cure" the Blood Elves of their addiction over time (light somehow being less addictive) ?

[Hallowseve17]

This is exactly the point many have been making for the past 500 pages. The fact blizzard used blood elves when making void elves is what makes the whole thing so frustrating. They had the perfect chance to finally give us a playable version of the group many people have wanted playable since forever, and instead opted to use the opposite group that was already playable, basically giving blood elves to the alliance with a new paint job (and in a way doing more harm to the faction divide than the always alliance aligned ones would have). Yes yes blood elves are high elves, but it's not the name that's important, it's the story behind it all, the names are simply used as a means to try and convey the backstory that's attached to it, which seemingly isn't getting across.

Sure to some it's all about the aesthetic and those people are either happy with void elves as is or would settle for some more skin options, but a lot of us mainly care about getting to play the group/faction that we've seen and played with since WC2, that has always stuck to and helped the Alliance despite the majority of its people and rulers trying to distance themself and later breaking with the Alliance completely. The group that broke ties with their own kin for what they believed were right (whether misguided or not) and have continually kept showing up throughout wow's history. That's the only race I've ever wanted and the only one I could see myself race changing my main to (which I would in a heartbeat), whereas void elf is pretty much the furthest thing from what I want, if that's the fantasy I wanted I'd just have gone horde and played a blood elf already.

Warcraft 2 was one of the first computer games I played at the age of 7, it was also as far as I can remember my first encounter with this fairly classical type of fantasy, and the elves was straight away my favorite. And they've stayed that way all the way up to current day wow. Sure, the blood elves came into existance with WC3 and are what replaced them in many ways, and yet blizzard have continually kept showing us that those original elves including Alleria that even in WC2 and WC3 were supposedly renegades putting the Alliance above the wishes of their leaders and people are still here. Yes, lorewise I'm sure some of those original WC2/WC3 elves are now blood elves, and yet blizzard keeps showing off the remaining high elves as the true legacy of that alliance (be it literally with the allerian stronghold or simply implied with most of them being rangers like the original WC2 units, etc). I don't care if they have to change their name or their appearance or whatever (just not butcher the lore they've built for them since then either), as long as it's that group of elves that's always been my favorite that I get to play.

I'm not sure how I feel about the implied new Void Elf conversion, partly that I don't feel it's explicit enough to be taken as true (yet at least, though I'm sure that's where they're going), and partly that it kind of goes against the identity of rejecting questionable magic they've been building up for (most of) the outcast High Elves. It's also hard to settle for the sub-par option when what you truly wanted keeps being dangled in front of you.

And yeah, I get why blizzard hasn't done it, but to me it's not an insurmountable problem either. All they need is to show and build on some of the implied development of the Alliance High Elf group and how they're diverging from the rest of their people. Both the mingling with humans and rejecting magic aspects could've been used more to advance their story and show that while they keep the name they're clearly no more the High Elves of old than the Blood Elves are.

As for the damage to faction distinctiveness Alliance High Elves would supposedly cause, imo since they already are part of the Alliance in all but playable status that damage is already done if so (not to mention the Void Elves having been handed over as well). Blizzard wouldn't keep adding High Elf NPC's on the Alliance or have them take part of the spotlight in major storylines if they truly considered them now to be a distinctly horde thing. To me the Void Elves did far more damage in that respect than the Alliance High Elves ever could, since at least they have had some minor development showing them diverging from the main Horde group, unlike Umbric and his followers who are fresh out of Silvermoon. Which also yet again, along with Lor'themar nearly defecting in Mists as well as the dissenters in Silvermoon who still prefer the Alliance (as shown by the guy being MC'd to stop speaking out) or Valeera for that matter, shows that their picture as distinctly horde has been more or less muddy for as long as that's been a thing.

Still, as I said, my personal hope would be that blizzard actually starts to build on whatever differences are there already so it wouldn't take any kind of retconning to make the Alliance High Elf group playable in the future. Show them uniting under a leader (Vereesa?), show how they've rejected parts of the High Elf culture and adopted human ones as has been implied, as well as maybe a few new ones, maybe even have them gather and perform a ritual to sever themselves from the sunwell as someone suggested (if Lor'themar stopped their pilgrimages it's not an unfeasible move imo). It would surely have some unintended consequences that could be used to further separate them. I'm sure Blizzard could come up with any number of things like that to make them their own thing and thus even if made playable infringe less on the Horde identity that they do in their current state.

I agree with your statements wholeheartedly, Uthan. This is why I've been swayed to join the pro-High Elf side. It's not about the appearance and aesthetic for me. I main Horde, I have a Blood Elf, I like the Horde story more. I'm not going to race change and exclusively play Alliance if High Elves were made into an allied race. For me, they are a flavor NPC race that we have seen play a role in the Alliance story time and time again. They should be playable. I feel the exact same way about Wildhammer Dwarves, Broken, Furbolg, Jinyu, Ogres, Taunka, Forest Trolls, Hozen, and all the other races that are already part of the Alliance or Horde. If they are part of the faction they should be playable. The more options the merrier.

[Aldo Hawk]

Funny how the high elfers exclaim that they have been "abused" by antis, yet in the last few pages of this thread I've only seen high elfers throwing out insults or mocking players because they "can't see why high elfs work".

The anti's commenting on this thread over the last few pages have predominately just opposed ideas that they disagree with, where as the high elfers seem to go one step ahead and openly mock those who disagree with them. Alex's words ring true "but please be respectful", showing that Blizz openly see and acknowledge the toxicity of some of the high elfer community.

Still trying to push this completely biased narrative?

@Obelisk Kai has not insulted anyone, yet has received bullyish comments from several of the pro crowd in recent pages. He expresses his disagreements and views on the topic, but has not mocked anyone. I suggest those who cannot be respectful leave the thread. This is a thread for the discussion of "for" and "against" high elfs, so comments from both parties should be accepted without insult, regardless of whether you agree or not. If you don't agree, merely state the fact... don't add insults along with it, that is just childish.

First of all, Obelisk has faulted constantly to the intelligence of those who oppose the twisted statements he makes, while also faulting to the truth in a regular basis by cutting honestity's throat in front of everyone.

Also what i suggest you is to drop this idea of a binary component on behavior in here, it's crystal clear that it is a straightforward lie.

Yet, high elfs to this date have not been added. On top of this, void elfs were added in their place.

Explain to me why void elfs were added in place of high elfs (when if ever there was a time to add HE the introduction of the AR system would have been the time)? I'd really love to hear your explanation.

Yet to this day there is a bunch of races that had not been added already, this is another example of having double standards for this particular matter.

Also, what you have to explain first is the idea that HE replaced VE in the first place. Since we don't have any official statement about this and if we look into the game the VE are described as BE exiles.

@Syegfryed You are keeping on the same behavior that doesn't lead into anything and searches for a flame war.

Instead of that, go and demonstrate the accusations you threw at me, a thing you were specifically asked to do and failed to do so. Or if you are not able to do that (because those accusations were totally false) instead, an apology.

[Varx]

Here's another tidbit that leans against the inclusion against helves, wh dwarves, forest trolls, or any other race who's core race has already yielded an AR.

The maghar are compromised of multiple orc clans, yet they're shown as a single race. All their different skin tones are just treated as different "shades".

If you think about it each clan could have easily been their own AR if blizzard decided to give multiple ARs per core race, but they didnt.

With that said, why should helves get an AR, when they hardly differ from their parent race in the first place, yet deny a full blown blackrock, dragonmaw, or laughing skull AR.

[Syegfryed]

@Syegfryed You are keeping on the same behavior that doesn't lead into anything and searches for a flame war.

why you bring me here again? thats tiresome, you are the one who start with the "behavior" you talk and get talked back

Instead of that, go and demonstrate the accusations you threw at me, a thing you were specifically asked to do and failed to do so. Or if you are not able to do that (because those accusations were totally false) instead, an apology.

i don't need to do anything, the topic and your comments are enough.

[Aldo Hawk]

why you bring me here again? thats tiresome, you are the one who start with the "behavior" you talk and get talked back



i don't need to do anything, the topic and your comments are enough.

It's simple. You claim things that don't have the guts to face afterwards, then i point that out and you evade your responsibility of backing the claims and accusations you do.

Also... Still not backing up your accusation of me doing a false equivalence fallacy.

If i were you i would be honorable and come up with an apology.

[FlubberPuddy]

Here's another tidbit that leans against the inclusion against helves, wh dwarves, forest trolls, or any other race who's core race has already yielded an AR.

The maghar are compromised of multiple orc clans, yet they're shown as a single race. All their different skin tones are just treated as different "shades".

If you think about it each clan could have easily been their own AR if blizzard decided to give multiple ARs per core race, but they didnt.

With that said, why should helves get an AR, when they hardly differ from their parent race in the first place, yet deny a full blown blackrock, dragonmaw, or laughing skull AR.

Mag'har aren't a knock against any other AR, because Blizzard themselves have flat out stated they're taking this system "in a bunch of different directions". We can also see the huge different between the first batch of AR (LFD, HMT, VE, NB) vs the 2nd batch (DI, MAG, KT, ZD).

Do you have any plans for Allied Races after the Kul Tirans and Zandalari Trolls?

JF: I feel like Allied Races are an awesome addition to the game. You have seen us taking this system in a bunch of directions now, we kinda pieced it apart, we've added Allied races and then we said "hey, wait a minute, I like being a Dwarf!", so we added a Dwarf heritage armor set. We added that, then we thought about Blood Elves wanting golden eyes or Night Elves, what do they get? So they got different customization options. So we really like the different levels of player customizations that came out of this and we're definitely not done yet, but we don't have anything to announce today.

Look at what Jeremy Feasel includes in this answer about piecing apart the AR system: Dwarves getting heritage armor, Blood Elves getting Gold Eyes, Night Elves getting Night Warrior eyes.

https://www.wowhead.com/news=288498/...ns-flying-in-n

There's a huge difference/improvement between the two batches of AR. It's clear that as Blizzard is working more and more on the AR system, they are also becoming more adept at it. To this day, we hear that LFD and HMT could've been customization options.

It also shows how "risky" Blizzard tried to be with the first batch, which is - they weren't.

And conception of Mag'har having all clans is because they knew (at the time they decided on them) A brown Orc doesn't really show much difference between a Green One when suited in armor, their actual intention with Mag'har is they knew they wanted to have an upright orc. What the fuck does that say?

That means their original intent for Mag'har was just to bring in a different posture Orc (lol).

And the same with the Mag’har Orcs?

Yeah, just people wanting more variety in orcs, for sure. But I honestly can’t remember the genesis of the decision to include all the orc tribes. We knew that we wanted to do more of an upright orc, but at the end of the day, some of the individual personality traits of the various orc clans in Warlords are not that distinguishable when you’re armoured up – especially when you have the new armour that you get in a new expansion – so we arrived at the idea of making an amalgam of all these different clans.

https://www.pcgamesn.com/world-of-wa...-azeroth-races

This was also a constant thing that people were joking about with Blizzard when the first 3/4 AR had body tattoos. "LuL Blizz, nice job adding tattoos when its gonna be covered up in armor!"

But we know in 8.2 that we're going to be able to hide everything now besides pants, that means this "issue" that was presented when Mag'har were conceived and created, isn't an issue anymore.

The main point and biggest thing is there isn't a set pattern for AR. That and the other big thing is that we can clearly see from early interviews on AR like with John Hight PC Games interview vs the later interviews like with Jeremy Feasel LATAM interview Blizzcon 2018. Where it's clear that their development of the AR system has yielded the internal team with new insights.

I doubt we're ever going to have a situation like Mag'har again (where multiple clans are included in one package) because it was trying to solve an issue that won't be an issue anymore with the more relaxed transmog restrictions.

Now races that actually have body markings will matter more and showcase unique customization that armor won't get in the way of as an option for the players.

And this is the biggest difference between the PRO and AGAINST side. It's clear that within Blizzard's AR development, things are changing, we're getting more distinct looking AR and Blizzard are opening up more character customization options.

The PRO side often acknowledges the changing statements, the AGAINST side is constantly trying to hold on to past statements without acknowledging the new ones being made. Or falling back to inane statements such as "why isn't it in the game now then! cuz it's not ever going to be" when other ARs also being requested for a long while aren't in the game yet, like Wildhammer Dwarves.

But we have statements from Blizzard that show they're on the radar. We're getting statements from Blizzard on how the already released ARs were "already in flight" and they're at a point now they're able to look at player feedback for what's wanted.

And "why should helves get an AR"? Because they still continue to be the most popularly requested race in the game. If that didn't go away all those years ago before AR, and if it still reigns as the most popular request post AR, then there's something to be said about that at Blizzard I'm sure.

Which ofc they know since we've had statements from Blizz devs where they've acknowledged High Elves as "a community favorite as far as future ideas go" "no plans in the near term" "I know I'm going to get a lot of hate mail" (that's acknowledgement of their popularity lol) "it's possible, don't give up hope", and even some developers personally supporting playable High Elves.

[Aldo Hawk]

Here's another tidbit that leans against the inclusion against helves, wh dwarves, forest trolls, or any other race who's core race has already yielded an AR.

The maghar are compromised of multiple orc clans, yet they're shown as a single race. All their different skin tones are just treated as different "shades".

If you think about it each clan could have easily been their own AR if blizzard decided to give multiple ARs per core race, but they didnt.

With that said, why should helves get an AR, when they hardly differ from their parent race in the first place, yet deny a full blown blackrock, dragonmaw, or laughing skull AR.

It's enough that they brought up alternative universe orcs isn't it?

The idea of Mag'har orcs is to give what players wanted for so long with extra spices, they could have totally left other clans to add as a separate AR but then the AU narrative would had been too much abused for this, and if not, they would had simply taken the Outland Mag'har (thing they should had done in the first place) leaving the AU variations free to do another AR or simply letting it be.

Also, the idea of 'core race' and 'sub-race' is out of the equation respecting Allied Races, by the simple standard that an Allied Race is not a Sub-race system, it's wider than that.

[Syegfryed]

It's simple. You claim things that don't have the guts to face afterwards

Again, you claim first and now you are acting like a victim, i already showed my points and explained then, you can ignore then all you want

then i point that out and you evade your responsibility of backing the claims and accusations you do.

lmao

Also... Still not backing up your accusation of me doing a false equivalence fallacy.

you did and i explained why and i showed what the equivalence rly work in the dilemma, turn back a few pages and you will se.

If i were you i would be honorable and come up with an apology.

get down from your high horse

[Aldo Hawk]

@Syegfryed Ok, let's do this.

Let's start with the post i made before you accused me of doing a false equivalence fallacy:

Then this is the first time you accuse me for it:

Next image is me demanding a justification about your accusation:

Then i'm kind enough to give a proper example of what you accused me in case you don't even care to link the definition of what a false equivalence is: Which by the way is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence

Wikipedia:

A common way for this fallacy to be perpetuated is one shared trait between two subjects is assumed to show equivalence, especially in order of magnitude, when equivalence is not necessarily the logical result.[2] False equivalence is a common result when an anecdotal similarity is pointed out as equal, but the claim of equivalence doesn't bear because the similarity is based on oversimplification or ignorance of additional factors.

After that you simply evade to justify yourself:

And reiterate on not providing any kind of proof about what you accused me:

Then, how not, i point out your evasive behavior in what is a clear 'oh no i'm cornered' situation:

And the last gyazo i'm gonna share is this one, where you insist that you already proven your accusation while... well... not proving it :

I ask you, again:

Can you please prove your accusation or coming up with an apology?

Edit: For me it seems the images doesn't show up... Well nvm you can drag them into another tab and they show.

[Strippling]

Both sides got few people whos insulting/mocking, while most here are trying to discuss normally. Yes, Obelisk Kai is normally a guy who makes great arguments, it is good to read what he writes, and I am not thinking of him when writing about the "antis". But you are not fooling anyone to think that pro-helfers are more toxic than the anti-helfers.

I acknowledged that both sides can be rude at times. What I was saying was that if you look at the last 10 pages or so, there has been unnecessary bullying towards @Obelisk Kai simply because he strongly disagrees with playable HE and makes great points as to why they shouldn't be added. I understand irritations can kick in and people can be "rude" at times, but the moment open bullying comes into play I won't tolerate that and will openly call out this sort of behavior.

It's ok to disagree, it's not ok to bully.

[Aldo Hawk]

I acknowledged that both sides can be rude at times.

You didn't, you specifically pointed 'the high elfers'.

What I was saying that if you look at the last 10 pages or so, there has been unnecessary bullying towards @Obelisk Kai simply because he strongly disagrees with playable HE and makes great points as to why they shouldn't be added. I understand irritations can kick in and people can be "rude" at times, but the moment open bullying comes into play I won't tolerate that and will openly shame those who indulge in this sort of behavior.

It's ok to disagree, it's not ok to bully.

And if you look back 500 pages you can see loads and loads and loads of bad manners against everyone, let's not get picky here, your intention is clearly to depict certain people (that, how not, you disagree with) as bully, which is total BS.

You even have to acknowledge the truth in order to not look too biased...

[Strippling]

Yet to this day there is a bunch of races that had not been added already, this is another example of having double standards for this particular matter.

Also, what you have to explain first is the idea that HE replaced VE in the first place. Since we don't have any official statement about this and if we look into the game the VE are described as BE exiles.

Dodging the question yet again. I've asked this exact same question to several high elfers and in all cases they have avoided directly answering the question.

So, I'll ask again and hopefully this time you'll answer the question directly. Please explain to me why Blizzard went out of their way to make VE an AR in place of HE? If you provide an indirect response I'll assume it's because you're too prideful to acknowledge why HE were not added (and why they never will be).

[Aldo Hawk]

Dodging the question yet again. I've asked this exact same question to several high elfers and in all cases they have avoided directly answering the question.

So, I'll ask again and hopefully this time you'll answer the question directly. Please explain to me why Blizzard went out of their way to make VE an AR in place of HE? If you provide an indirect response I'll assume it's because you're too prideful to acknowledge why HE were not added (and why they never will be).

It's not a dodged question, i answered saying the common sense thing that there is a whole bunch of potentially playable races that are not playable, and that's not a reason to say they should or couldn't be!

Also, you and nobody still didn't provided proof about because Void elves were added that leaves High elves out of the equation.

I can't answer the damn question if the premise doesn't hold any ground, please, understand me.

[Syegfryed]

@Syegfryed Ok, let's do this.

Let's start with the post i made before you accused me of doing a false equivalence fallacy

i already told you many times, comparing maghar orcs and green orcs(or even others Allied races) to BE and HE its a fale equivalence, because your claim of equivalence doesn't bear because the similarity is based on oversimplification or ignorance of additional factors. got it?

a true equivalence to the HE/BE dilemma would be two different clans(groups) of the same green orcs, like warsong and Frostwolf clan, with just different mindsets.

now you can apology yourself for doing a mistake and thinking you are right.

[Strippling]

You didn't, you specifically pointed 'the high elfers'.

When responding to someone, it helps to read thoroughly.

I know anti's can be rude too - This was from my original comment. Next time, read thoroughly.

And if you look back 500 pages you can see loads and loads and loads of bad manners against everyone, let's not get picky here, your intention is clearly to depict certain people (that, how not, you disagree with) as bully, which is total BS.

You even have to acknowledge the truth in order to not look too biased...

Again, re-read what I said before responding. This time I won't copy paste from my quote, I'll leave that for you to go back and read properly.

I acknowledged that both sides can be rude or mock. However, several people (yourself included) were blatantly ganging up and bullying Obelisk. Insults come from both sides from time to time, it's the nature of a "heated" debate. Bullying focused at an individual from several people however is going too far, and should be called out when manifested.

- - - Updated - - -

It's not a dodged question, i answered saying the common sense thing that there is a whole bunch of potentially playable races that are not playable, and that's not a reason to say they should or couldn't be!

Also, you and nobody still didn't provided proof about because Void elves were added that leaves High elves out of the equation.

I can't answer the damn question if the premise doesn't hold any ground, please, understand me.

You claim to answer using "common sense". Yet "common sense" says that VE were clearly added in place of HE.

But, to assist you with answering the question, I'll re-phrase it for you. Please explain why VE were added and not HE?

[Stelio Kontos]

In my view, the best argument for Helves is the Nightborne. If the Horde can get Night Elves of merely a different political faction, I don't see why the same can't happen with High Elves. Just make the model slightly different as Blizzard did with the Nightborne. Hell, they're still close enough that it's hard to tell the difference depending on their gear.

Nightborne are just a different political faction of Night Elves that got shoehorned into the Horde. I wouldn't see any difference between that and High Elves.

I mean, personally, myself, I think we have more than enough Elves as it is. Too many in fact. But it's disingenuous to see Hordelets hiding behind the same reasoning when that means they shouldn't have been given Nightborne at all.

[Aldo Hawk]

i already told you many times, comparing maghar orcs and green orcs(or even others Allied races) to BE and HE its a fale equivalence, because your claim of equivalence doesn't bear because the similarity is based on oversimplification or ignorance of additional factors. got it?

a true equivalence to the HE/BE dilemma would be two different clans(groups) of the same green orcs, like warsong and Frostwolf clan, with just different mindsets.

now you can apology yourself for doing a mistake and thinking you are right.

Seriously? is it that?

Is not oversimplified nor ignorant. You can effectively roleplay as a Mag'har orc from Outland, while you cannot roleplay as a High elf simply because a Blood elf is not a High elf from the Alliance.

Your only basis on that is that they are a different (literally, by your own words: https://gyazo.com/588386effc077a74c68373fe4834879d ) species, while coming from someone who used the 'i'm an authority on the matter' card is double funny.

And here we have you double dipping into the different species narrative while in same breath correcting just a little bit and using race/species as interchangeable terms: https://gyazo.com/7fdadfe595bf4cb79f366229ac2de412 What a biologist damn... Hey, you may be, i'm not questioning that, but that was a super simple matter.

Also, you even failed to acknowledge that both Blood elves and Orcs had physical changes due to fel, Orcs manifesting it more vividly through their skin. No one of them became a different race, there is a reason of why Felblood Orcs and Felblood Elves exist.

For more info about that, you have the new toy Strippling gave to Obelisk to twist it, the video from 2005 of Chris Metzen speaking about characteristics of TbC and focusing a lot about Blood elves (he really likes them, wow). Heck, i'm gonna link it: https://youtu.be/O3uzFQ_n88k?t=638

Seriously, next time i suggest you to not double dip into cornering yourself of making false statements, educate a bit more about the matters you want to 'wreck some clueless people with facts and logic' with, please...

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I know anti's can be rude too - This was from my original comment. Next time, read thoroughly.

I acknowledged that both sides can be rude or mock. However, several people (yourself included) were blatantly ganging up and bullying Obelisk. Insults come from both sides from time to time, it's the nature of a "heated" debate. Bullying focused at an individual from several people however is going too far, and should be called out when manifested.

I already read that thoroughly and just saw someone specifically marking 'the helfers' as the ones who bully.

There is a big difference between pointing to something and letting something as an afterthought, a 'yes, there is that too but this other thing'.

If you want to do as if you were equal for both parties... sorry, you failed. (no, you didn't failed, you perfectly knew what you wanted to do).

You claim to answer using "common sense". Yet "common sense" says that VE were clearly added in place of HE.

That's your opinion. High elves were not 'clearly' switched in order to add Void elves.

In fact, by guessing, Void elves are Blood elves, even their /joke tells that, (maybe it's the /joke, if not, it's one of their voicelines). First comes High, then Blood, and now Void. Then, by guessing, the intention with Void elves was not to replace High elves, if not, for what we got from their own words: 'We wanted to create something cool that also resembles a Blood elf for the Alliance'. Maybe not those exact words, it's in the interview with Alex Afrasiabi and the Lost Codex.

That's common sense for you.

Please explain why VE were added and not HE?

As i wrote a few pages ago: The answer we got is that they wanted to create something cool and also something similar to a Blood elf.

That's what we know, nobody has a clue if they did that to replace the inclusion of High elves, Blizzard didn't specifically ruled them out.

[FlubberPuddy]

In my view, the best argument for Helves is the Nightborne. If the Horde can get Night Elves of merely a different political faction, I don't see why the same can't happen with High Elves. Just make the model slightly different as Blizzard did with the Nightborne. Hell, they're still close enough that it's hard to tell the difference depending on their gear.

Nightborne are just a different political faction of Night Elves that got shoehorned into the Horde. I wouldn't see any difference between that and High Elves.

I mean, personally, myself, I think we have more than enough Elves as it is. Too many in fact. But it's disingenuous to see Hordelets hiding behind the same reasoning when that means they shouldn't have been given Nightborne at all.

And it is the sole existence of Nightborne on Horde that makes what Ion said in the QA hypocritical and clearly an attempt to at the time, shut down a topic that clearly many people wanted an answer to.

He even cherry picked the question he answered which wasn't even the most upvoted High Elf question and asked in a neutral manner. Instead he chose one that focused on Void Elves and spent the most time explaining on Void Elf decision while hand-waving the High Elves to a clear intent to meme, "if you want to play a fair-skinned, blue eyed, majestic elf...sorry, the horde is waiting for you".

Blood Elves don't even have blue eyes, he was clearly poking fun at the known trolly type comments of "people just wanna play 'hitler elves' ".

Because it makes no sense to say that then have clear "purple skinned, silver eyed, night elf" being able to be played on Horde side as well.

But like I've been saying recently, I'm pretty sure with the response that from the media outlets/youtubers/known community members came from that QA, and how it only ignited the High Elf request instead of stifling it, they've shown change in how they respond to this particular topic.

Afrasiabi's "don't give up hope" is a very stark difference from the earlier in the year QA. And also again if that High Elf Discord met Ion at Blizzcon and his response holds true then even Ion has changed his tone regarding High Elves, "they won't be in BFA, but that doesn't mean they won't be in wow ever"

But I take the Discord chat/image with more skepticism because it can't be verified as well short of asking Ion if the convo is true or not (which anyone is free to do).

[Syegfryed]

Seriously? is it that?

it is

Is not oversimplified nor ignorant. You can effectively roleplay as a Mag'har orc from Outland, while you cannot roleplay as a High elf simply because a Blood elf is not a High elf from the Alliance.

thats have nothing to do with the subject.

Also you are lying, you can roleplay as a HE playing a VE just fine, the " because a Blood elf is not a High elf from the Alliance." its a nonsense and nonissue, roleplay its way more about pretend.

if you can pretend that your maghar come from outland even when they do not, you can do with VE just fine.

Your only basis on that is that they are a different species,

yes and? the only basis that is factual

while coming from someone who used the 'i'm an authority on the matter' card is double funny.

thats literally irrelevant, i said that because you became pedant saying i don't know what i was talking about when you drop the '"race is a social construct bomb"


you literally had no idea what you talked about, got corrected, and still in the mistake spit that you were right for whatever reason

And here we have you double dipping into the different species narrative while in same breath correcting just a little bit and using race/species as interchangeable terms:

yes its what i did because its right

Hey, you may be, i'm not questioning that, but that was a super simple matter.

you are free to try to prove otherwise, cause you just failed in every attempt, and your comeback of "race doesn't exist..." or "race is a social construct" didn't help your cause, just show that you are indeed, clueless about the subject

Also, you even failed to acknowledge that both Blood elves and Orcs had physical changes due to fel, Orcs manifesting it more vividly through their skin. No one of them became a different race, there is a reason of why Felblood Orcs and Felblood Elves exist.

i didn't failed i pointed then out, i said there is a big difference of you eye glow change due to the fel proximity as a reaction and literally drinking demon blood.

i pointed out that even HE that are alliance get the eye glow if they stay too much time in quel'thals for that time.

you again, using the false equivalence, trying to put the BE scenario in the same bag of the orc race corruption.

Seriously, next time i suggest you to not double dip into cornering yourself of making false statements, educate a bit more about the matters you want to 'wreck some clueless people with facts and logic' with, please...

You are clueless about facts, about biology and about the lore of the game ma dude, your obsession is clouding your judgment and you bias is showing

all my statements are true and you did nothing to refute then, just brought some irrelevant stuff who had nothing to do with the point, a well know HE tactic.