Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Aldo Hawk]

--- snip ---

Both times it was you who particularly pushed this thing out of nowhere trying to impose it onto me trying to discredit my words.

Let's not mention it again, shall we? and for a damn time, accept when you are wrong, please, carry on.

[Aucald]

thats why said many times we should strictly stay to just wow races, and what is defined a race/specie in wow universe even we talk about wow humans, who are not real humans, to not derail the topic, but without success.

Races in wow are a bit arbitrary but easy identified

Both times it was you who particularly pushed this thing out of nowhere trying to impose it onto me trying to discredit my words.

Let's not mention it again, shall we? and for a damn time, accept when you are wrong, please, carry on.

Bringing it up *again* is only going to start it back up - final warning and last thing I'll say on this. Beyond this point no further continuation of that aspect of the previous conversation.

[Aldo Hawk]

Can you provide the citeable source for this exact quote?

https://gyazo.com/1acc5ab027bd20b8134f8a7a0a7b507f and https://gyazo.com/895c345a99664e1800dfe66bdaaa11e8 Cut image above is him in a photo with Ion Hazzikostas.

Dwarfs on the Horde would be something new too, but is not going to happen because they already exist on the Alliance and Blizzard are on record multiple times for saying "faction diversity" and "the faction divide between Horde and Alliance" is integral to WoW.

Similarly, high elfs on the Alliance would be something new, but is not going to happen because they already exist on the Horde.

That's not the same situation. There is not precedent of Dwarven societies living, working and fighting for the Horde. In the other hand, you already know what the situation with High elves on the Alliance is.

Edit: Also, as i always say. Factions are what it's members make of them, not the other way around. If High elves are Alliance, then it's another facade of the faction, having playable High elves would be inside the identity and fantasy of the faction while at the same time differentiating itself from the Horde through more means that the visual one.

Every existing AR has more than just new "perks" distinguishing them from their core race.

-snip-

Yet you still have to take into account that if they do decide to add High elves they would certainly come with a whole new set of characteristics for them, that's how it works and every Allied race that came into the game did that. Is not guessing nor an opinion, is a common point all Allied races share, not some of them.

My point of view is backed by Blizzard. Who's backing yours? The HE discord channel?

Hey, don't pretend as if only you have Blizzard saying something that supports your claims and views.

[Strippling]

https://gyazo.com/1acc5ab027bd20b8134f8a7a0a7b507f and https://gyazo.com/895c345a99664e1800dfe66bdaaa11e8 Cut image above is him in a photo with Ion Hazzikostas.

A guy claiming Ion said something is not a legitimate source. A photo with Ion is not proof either.

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High Elven lore people want to experience through its playable race
- Loss of a home/kingdom/family/friends
- Making do with what little they had
- Fighting alongside allies that their kingdom excused themselves from
- Shoring up the relationships with the Night Elves (since the encyclopedia said they were distrusted at first)
- Cultural shifts that occurred as High Elves remaining within the Alliance

These are story beats, themes, culture that cannot be experienced by playing a Blood Elf nor a Void Elf.

A lot of what you listed fits the Blood Elf experience.

Also, no new sources that I know of have shown that night elfs no longer distrust high elfs. So don't imply 'at first they distrusted them but now they don't'. Unless I'm missing dialogue in-game or canonically recorded elsewhere, then as it currently stands high elfs are distrusted by the night elfs and by some of the Alliance as a whole.

[Aldo Hawk]

A guy claiming Ion said something is not a legitimate source. A photo with Ion is not proof either.

Then go yourself and ask via twitter or whatever to Ion himself if he did said that.

That's what we have, you didn't brought yet -anything- proving your stance of HE being ruled out either, never happening, or impossible.

[FlubberPuddy]

A guy claiming Ion said something is not a legitimate source. A photo with Ion is not proof either.

First, I think it’s hilarious you say this isn’t proof but when shown the twitter post that Ion liked speaking of hoping High Elves are playable and to keep up the good work right at the end. You somehow knowingly know the “like” Ion gave only applies to the very last portion of said twitter post.

Your double standard continues to convey itself. Simply ask the man himself (Ion) if such an encounter happened over Twitter. We had Obelisk Kai confirm with Jeremy Feasel very quickly on the High Elf comment he made after Kaira came in and showed her DM with Jeremy saying they are on the table for the future or what not.

A lot of what you listed fits the Blood Elf experience.

Also, no new sources that I know of have shown that night elfs no longer distrust high elfs. So don't imply 'at first they distrusted them but now they don't'. Unless I'm missing dialogue in-game or canonically recorded elsewhere, then as it currently stands high elfs are distrusted by the night elfs and by some of the Alliance as a whole.

My bad, I should’ve clarified in the first point existing home/kingdom/family/friends. As in the people they left behind when the high elf and blood elf occurred. That’s unique to High Elves only since blood Elves kept all that.

Didn’t think I had to get that specific but I guess it had to be done. Let me do that for the rest as well.

Learning to make due without the Sunwell and their city of Silvermoon and all its resources.

Learning to live among their Alliance allies who their kingdom had broken itself off from.

Shoring up relationships with the Nightelves. (This one didn’t have to be changed because we don’t see any friendship budding among blood Elves and night Elves). This is occurring now because as stated before, Vereesa got invited to Tyrande and Malfurions wedding thereby showing some thawing of suspicions.

And cultural shifts that occurred as High Elves remaining in the Alliance all this time is very specific and cannot be said about Blood Elves either.

Nothing listed there is shared by Blood Elves nor can be experienced by playing a Blood Elf or a Void Elf.

Try better next time instead of just saying “it can be done with Blood Elves too!” How?

The whole premise requires giving up everything the Blood Elves held onto and chose.

[Strippling]

Then go yourself and ask via twitter or whatever to Ion himself if he did said that.

That's not how it works. If you provide a non-credible source then the onus is on you to prove its credibility... not expect me to prove it's legit. Lol, that's a first...

Also, I'm going to assume the guy who supposedly spoke with Ion is a "hardcore" HE fan. Subsequently, one could safely assume anything he states that Ion supposedly said will come from a HE bias. Saying that though, it's not a credible source regardless so it has absolutely zero merit in this debate.

[Aldo Hawk]

That's not how it works. If you provide a non-credible source then the onus is on you to prove its credibility... not expect me to prove it's legit. Lol, that's a first...

You are grasping at it very wrong, Strippling. I already provided the source i got for that. You don't believing it is not my problem. In fact, this is the time you should prove -me- wrong by searching if what i shared is false.

Also, I'm going to assume the guy who supposedly spoke with Ion is a "hardcore" HE fan. Subsequently, one could safely assume anything he states that Ion supposedly said will come from a HE bias. Saying that though, it's not a credible source regardless so it has absolutely zero merit in this debate.

Well then, just throw an ad hominem against Raven and put your fingers in your ears!

Or instead, do what i asked you and bring a source that makes truth your claim of High elves being impossible, ruled out, changed for Void elves, never coming, etc...

That's something you are -not- backing up with a source of any kind at all.

[Strippling]

First, I think it’s hilarious you say this isn’t proof but when shown the twitter post that Ion liked speaking of hoping High Elves are playable and to keep up the good work right at the end. You somehow knowingly know the “like” Ion gave only applies to the very last portion of said twitter post.

Your double standard continues to convey itself. Simply ask the man himself (Ion) if such an encounter happened over Twitter. We had Obelisk Kai confirm with Jeremy Feasel very quickly on the High Elf comment he made after Kaira came in and showed her DM with Jeremy saying they are on the table for the future or what not.

See my response to Aldo Hawk.

You're grasping at straws if you need to use a non credible source to back your argument.

My bad, I should’ve clarified in the first point existing home/kingdom/family/friends. As in the people they left behind when the high elf and blood elf occurred. That’s unique to High Elves only since blood Elves kept all that.

-snip-

High elfs still make pilgrimage to the Sunwell / Silvermoon. So your first point is invalid.

The rest of your points are so minute, negligible or inconsequential (for the most part). The fact that you have to find even the most unimportant details to information showing how HE can apparently be different from BE further evidences why HE would blur faction lines.

Remember, this game isn't just made for HE fanatics. A large portion of the player base are not lore experts, and so when creating new races Blizz need to be able to create races that are easily and clearly identifiable and differentiated from other races. I'd say it's safe to assume that only a very small portion of the player base would be able to recognize the difference between a HE and BE (albeit an extremely small difference, like we're literally only talking blue eyes and political views). Most of the player base would be confused as to why the same elf is on both factions. So, if you're struggling to fathom why anti's can't see the "apparently clear and distinct differences between the two groups", remember it's not about that, it's about that the player base at large would not recognize the difference...thus consequently blurring faction lines.

As an example, I was raiding a month or two ago and one player brought up the playable HE on the Alliance topic during the raid. The comments preceding his remark (I'm paraphrasing but his comment was something like "what are your guys thoughts on playable HE for Alliance?") were unanimous. Most of the rai

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You are grasping at it very wrong, Strippling. I already provided the source i got for that. You don't believing it is not my problem. In fact, this is the time you should prove -me- wrong by searching if what i shared is false.

Again, that's not how it works. If you provide a non-credible source then it's your responsibility to prove its credibility. If you can't, then don't use the source.

For the time being, I'm going to dismiss that quote as it's not credible.

Or instead, do what i asked you and bring a source that makes truth your claim of High elves being impossible, ruled out, changed for Void elves, never coming, etc...

That's something you are -not- backing up with a source of any kind at all.

Blizzard have a habit of saying "anything is possible". High elfs are possible, although their chances of being added is extremely unlikely. Similarly, alliance high elfs could be killed off next expansion. Anything is possible.

However, any person of sound mind would see Blizzard's response and stance on the matter (the fact that A) HE are not playable, and B) they've stated why they're not playable) and recognize that the comment "anything is possible" is a polite way of saying "No."

[Aldo Hawk]

Remember, this game isn't just made for HE fanatics. A large portion of the player base are not lore experts, and so when creating new races Blizz need to be able to create races that are easily and clearly identifiable and differentiated from other races. I'd say it's safe to assume that only a very small portion of the player base would be able to recognize the difference between a HE and BE (albeit an extremely small difference, like we're literally only talking blue eyes and political views). Most of the player base would be confused as to why the same elf is on both factions. So, if you're struggling to fathom why anti's can't see the "apparently clear and distinct differences between the two groups", remember it's not about that, it's about that the player base at large would not recognize the difference...thus consequently blurring faction lines.

Then that's where the additions to new Allied races come into place. And even after that there's something called curiosity. If someone truly cares about -why-, that person will look for the thing that made him think -why-.

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Again, that's not how it works. If you provide a non-credible source then it's your responsibility to prove its credibility. If you can't, then don't use the source.

For the time being, I'm going to dismiss that quote as it's not credible.

Again, go ask Ion. This is only you being picky.

Blizzard have a habit of saying "anything is possible". High elfs are possible, although their chances of being added is extremely unlikely. Similarly, alliance high elfs could be killed off next expansion. Anything is possible.

However, any person of sound mind would see Blizzard's response and stance on the matter (the fact that A) HE are not playable, and B) they've stated why they're not playable) and recognize that the comment "anything is possible" is a polite way of saying "No."

These are only your words spiced with lots of bias against the inclusion of this Allied race.

A source, Strippling.

[Garfurion]

Can you provide the citeable source for this exact quote?

Maybe not the exact quote you are looking for but Ion Hazzikostas was very clear on the matter:

"That said, obviously I understand you would love Alliance elves...you're an Alliance player, and want to be a fair-skinned, light-haired, blue-eyed elf. Sorry? The Horde is there and waiting for you. Eye color is not quite the same but maybe contact lenses in the future, you never know? Anything is possible in the future, but no plans in the near-term to add High Elves as an Allied Race." -- Ion Hazzikostas, Live Developer Q&A April 2018

[Strippling]

Maybe not the exact quote you are looking for but Ion Hazzikostas was very clear on the matter:

"That said, obviously I understand you would love Alliance elves...you're an Alliance player, and want to be a fair-skinned, light-haired, blue-eyed elf. Sorry? The Horde is there and waiting for you. Eye color is not quite the same but maybe contact lenses in the future, you never know? Anything is possible in the future, but no plans in the near-term to add High Elves as an Allied Race." -- Ion Hazzikostas, Live Developer Q&A April 2018

I'm well aware of this quote, but thank you for taking the time to post it.

I was asking Aldo Hawk to provide the source for his other quote, which ended up just being a non-confirmed (and subsequently non-credible) source.

With regard to the "anything is possible" comment from Ion, it's a perfectly reasonable (and expected) response to sate a "hungry" HE crowd. Yes anything is possible. But like I said to Aldo, it's possible high elfs could be killed off next expansion. Sometimes reading too far into the lines of something can be misguiding. In this case, you only need but stand back and look at Ion's comment from a distance to know that "anything is possible" is a polite way of saying "no". An important point to note is that his immediate response was (paraphrasing) "if you want to be a light skinned high elf the Horde is waiting for you", following with a "but anything is possible". So, the "anything is possible" appears to be an attempt to 'soften the blow' of sorry but high elfs are on the Horde comment he lead with.

[Garfurion]

Remember, this game isn't just made for HE fanatics.

Weren't you complaining a few pages ago about people being rude in this thread ?

[Aldo Hawk]

With regard to the "anything is possible" comment from Ion, it's a perfectly reasonable (and expected) response to sate a "hungry" HE crowd. Yes anything is possible. But like I said to Aldo, it's possible high elfs could be killed off next expansion. Sometimes reading too far into the lines of something can be misguiding. In this case, you only need but stand back and look at Ion's comment from a distance to know that "anything is possible" is a polite way of saying "no". An important point to note is that his immediate response was (paraphrasing) "if you want to be a light skinned high elf the Horde is waiting for you", following with a "but anything is possible". So, the "anything is possible" appears to be an attempt to 'soften the blow' of sorry but high elfs are on the Horde comment he lead with.

Well then, you don't have -anything- to back your assertion of High elves being replaced with Void elves, ruled out, impossible to implement, etc...

What you wrote there was already spoke off a hundred times, be careful with what you take as a serious point because you could end up thinking your backyard is the prettiest one in the world.

[Strippling]

Weren't you complaining a few pages ago about people being rude in this thread ?

fanatic
/fəˈnatɪk/
noun
1.
a person filled with excessive and single-minded zeal,
synonyms (applicable): devotee, diehard, ultra, activist

zeal
/ziːl/
noun
great energy or enthusiasm in pursuit of a cause or an objective.
synonyms (applicable): passion, committedness, enthusiasm, eagerness, keenness

I wasn't being rude. High elf fanatics are devoted, active (ie activists) and passionate about the topic.

Some words have differing meanings depending on A) context, and B) their cultural use. Consider that next time before trying to "undercut" me

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Well then, you don't have -anything- to back your assertion of High elves being replaced with Void elves, ruled out, impossible to implement, etc...

What you wrote there was already spoke off a hundred times, be careful with what you take as a serious point because you could end up thinking your backyard is the prettiest one in the world.

I have no idea what you're on about anymore. So I'm ceasing my input into our debate.

In conclusion, neither of us have much to go by other than void elfs are playable and high elfs aren't. Make of that what you will.

[Aldo Hawk]

fanatic
/fəˈnatɪk/
noun
1.
a person filled with excessive and single-minded zeal,
synonyms (applicable): devotee, diehard, ultra, activist

zeal
/ziːl/
noun
great energy or enthusiasm in pursuit of a cause or an objective.
synonyms (applicable): passion, committedness, enthusiasm, eagerness, keenness

I wasn't being rude. High elf fanatics are devoted, active (ie activists) and passionate about the topic.

Some words have differing meanings depending on A) context, and B) their cultural use. Consider that next time before trying to "undercut" me

Fanatical zealots, that is what you are calling those who support high elves.

Very mature coming from you. Indeed. As mature as most of what you had been doing in here as victimizing only for your interests, claiming things you cannot back up and still dipping into it, not acknowledging simple things about the matter, exaggerated double standards, discrediting words of someone who spoke to Ion simply because he doesn't think like you...

Please, don't insult our intelligence.

[Garfurion]

fanatic
/fəˈnatɪk/
noun
1.
a person filled with excessive and single-minded zeal,
synonyms (applicable): devotee, diehard, ultra, activist

zeal
/ziːl/
noun
great energy or enthusiasm in pursuit of a cause or an objective.
synonyms (applicable): passion, committedness, enthusiasm, eagerness, keenness

I wasn't being rude. High elf fanatics are devoted, active (ie activists) and passionate about the topic.

Some words have differing meanings depending on A) context, and B) their cultural use. Consider that next time before trying to "undercut" me

Maybe you didn't mean it as an insult or to be rude, but in general "fanatic" has a negative connotation.


Fanatical comes from the word fanatic, which itself came from the Latin fanaticus, meaning "mad" or "inspired by a deity." The root word is fanum, or "temple." The original English meanings of both fanatic and fanatical implied that the person being described was insane with enthusiasm, like a religious zealot. The word fan is likely shortened from fanatic, and thus shares the same roots, but that word doesn't imply the same obsessiveness that fanatical does.

[Strippling]

Fanatical zealots, that is what you are calling those who support high elves.

Very mature coming from you. Indeed. As mature as most of what you had been doing in here as victimizing only for your interests, claiming things you cannot back up and still dipping into it, not acknowledging simple things about the matter, exaggerated double standards, discrediting words of someone who spoke to Ion simply because he doesn't think like you...

Please, don't insult our intelligence.

No where in my response is the word 'zealot' used. Zeal ≠ Zealot. Don't put words in my mouth, it's poor 'debatemenship'.

[Aldo Hawk]

I have no idea what you're on about anymore. So I'm ceasing my input into our debate.

In conclusion, neither of us have much to go by other than void elfs are playable and high elfs aren't. Make of that what you will.

You do, but refuse to face it.

Bring up a source that can back up your stance on High elves being ruled out or replaced with Void elves.

That's a thing you can't do, because it's -false-. Then by that the next time you try to pass that as valid it should rightfully be pointed out as the lie it is.

[Strippling]

Maybe you didn't mean it as an insult or to be rude, but in general "fanatic" has a negative connotation.


Fanatical comes from the word fanatic, which itself came from the Latin fanaticus, meaning "mad" or "inspired by a deity." The root word is fanum, or "temple." The original English meanings of both fanatic and fanatical implied that the person being described was insane with enthusiasm, like a religious zealot. The word fan is likely shortened from fanatic, and thus shares the same roots, but that word doesn't imply the same obsessiveness that fanatical does.

I had no ill-intention of the word. But perhaps a better word could be used in it's place. So I apologize for the confusion.