1. #1001
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldielocks View Post
    If it wasn't a real thing then the Horde would have never received Blood Elves in the first place. The lore behind it is extremely contrived and badly written, and only because it was done because Blizzard was forced to do it.

    If it wasn't a real thing, then the Void Elves would look like Alleria. Why don't they?

    There's no implication of a mass exodus. Blizzard doesn't want to increase the divide between the active players, by any margin. It's a common dev thing, to keep binary groups of players as close to 50-50 as possible.

    You can keep arguing lore all you want, but it will always come second to Blizzard.
    Yeah the context has changed. It's not the same game as it was 10 years ago. There is far more in play, with dozens of more races added now and soon in the future, and with fixes to the "monster" races that makes them look decidedly more human-like and thus appealing.

    People wanted incentive to play the Horde but not play a monster race. They got Blood Elves. Now they get to be Horde and look pretty.

    I mean it may be shocking to you but not everyone likes the Alliance.

    - - - Updated - - -

    In my opinion they should have went with Void Broken and High Elves.

    I think they ended up wanting Alleria and Turalyon to have more important roles in the story. Turalyon was given Lightforged because it makes sense, and void broken would have been two Draenei which is redundant.

    So they opted for an Elf race to balance the Night Elves on the Horde. They probably thought High Elves wouldn't make sense as Void Elves so they went with Blood Elves instead.

    They wanted Void Elves NOW to develop Alleria, and they kept High Elves for later.

    That's a likely scenario, and you cannot claim it is not likely to be true.

  2. #1002
    Quote Originally Posted by Lebanese Dude View Post
    Yeah the context has changed. It's not the same game as it was 10 years ago. There is far more in play, with dozens of more races added now and soon in the future, and with fixes to the "monster" races that makes them look decidedly more human-like and thus appealing.

    People wanted incentive to play the Horde but not play a monster race. They got Blood Elves. Now they get to be Horde and look pretty.

    I mean it may be shocking to you but not everyone likes the Alliance.
    I already implied that in my first post. The point was that Blizzard believes there's a chance it's possible and that's why they're not giving Void Elves that look like Alleria.

    Is there proof of this? Nope. Does it make sense to assume so because it doesn't make sense that Alleria and the Void Elves look so different? Yes. The fact that the Void Elves' racial leader looks this different from them is monumentally stupid and I can only harken back to the level of writing done when the Blood Elves joined the Horde.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lebanese Dude View Post
    In my opinion they should have went with Void Broken and High Elves.

    I think they ended up wanting Alleria and Turalyon to have more important roles in the story. Turalyon was given Lightforged because it makes sense, and void broken would have been two Draenei which is redundant.

    So they opted for an Elf race to balance the Night Elves on the Horde. They probably thought High Elves wouldn't make sense as Void Elves so they went with Blood Elves instead.

    They wanted Void Elves NOW to develop Alleria, and they kept High Elves for later.

    That's a likely scenario, and you cannot claim it is not likely to be true.
    That entire scenario has nothing to do with why the Void Elves look the way they do, which is my entire point. Your entire fabrication could be right, and I'd still be correct.

    Again, the entire point is why the Void Elves look different. If Blizzard wanted to make a lot more money, they wouldn't have made the Void Elves the way they are. They would be Alleria clones.

  3. #1003
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post

    Why most High Elf dissenters can't take in these contextual things always surprises me. Then throw their arguments around like they're completely 100% correct and it couldn't be for any other reason than what they think it to be. At least we are exploring possibilities instead of essentially going, "no. no. no. I don't like. no."
    Because most "High elf Dissenters" are looking at it from the perspective of Blizzard, it's a fact that Blizzard has said no to them multiple times, hell the game designer reiterated that once again in that Blizzcon interview. Exploring possibilities is something High elf fans have been doing for what, over ten years now? And Blizzard obviously doesn't share your opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lebanese Dude View Post
    They wanted Void Elves NOW to develop Alleria, and they kept High Elves for later.

    That's a likely scenario, and you cannot claim it is not likely to be true.
    Is that why they stated that there are no populations from which a playable high elf would come from, and that Blood elves are pretty much high elves?

    I can claim it's not likely to be true because yet again Blizzard took the same stance Caydiem took way, way back, that high elves are pretty much gone, and won't be their own playable force.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  4. #1004
    I am Murloc! FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Here's another example from way back: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...Cataclysm-quot

    Devs said they considered playable Ogres in Cataclysm, but didn't.

    WoD came by, no playable Ogres.

    Are you same anti-helf guys going to go around say they're not ever going to add playable Ogres if someone starts making threads asking for them?

    And High Elves haven't been a "No" for 10+ years, they've always been a maybe, or not right now. As I said, before Legion, Ion even mentioned them in the same breath w/Brown Orcs and even at last year Blizzcon Void Elf reveal it again wasn't a "No." If you personally take it as that then that's all good for you and others who agree with you, but you can't really say others who didn't see it that way as being wrong. It was an ambiguous answer given right after Void Elf reveal. No company in their right mind would shit on their own creation so quickly after it's been revealed.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    Because most "High elf Dissenters" are looking at it from the perspective of Blizzard, it's a fact that Blizzard has said no to them multiple times, hell the game designer reiterated that once again in that Blizzcon interview. Exploring possibilities is something High elf fans have been doing for what, over ten years now? And Blizzard obviously doesn't share your opinion.
    Please present to me the many times they've said "No" to playable High Elves because I've never seen any evidence.

    EDIT: I see you bring up Caydiem in the above post, when holy shit dude that is a post from 2005 that has been retconned by all that's happened in WoW with High Elves since Wrath and beyond, even into Legion and further his post has been retconned with the Garithos situation and how Blood Elves felt about Alliance in Chronicles Vol3.
    Last edited by FlubberPuddy; 2018-03-31 at 10:29 PM.

  5. #1005
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    Please present to me the many times they've said "No" to playable High Elves because I've never seen any evidence.
    Date: 29 September 2005 Blizzard post by Caydiem

    Blizzcon, BFA, over ten years later Ion's reasoning is almost completely the same, Too low of a population, the majority are blood elves. That's over ten years of consistency from Blizzard on something, which is actually incredible.


    In between that you have GC stating that in the end Blizzard didn't like the way Pandaren worked out due to the neutral races having the same exact look and therefore harmed faction identity.

    It's a bitter pill, but as long as you actually recognize Blizzard's consistent stance on the issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  6. #1006
    I am Murloc! FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    Date: 29 September 2005 Blizzard post by Caydiem

    Blizzcon, BFA, over ten years later Ion's reasoning is almost completely the same, Too low of a population, the majority are blood elves. That's over ten years of consistency from Blizzard on something, which is actually incredible.


    In between that you have GC stating that in the end Blizzard didn't like the way Pandaren worked out due to the neutral races having the same exact look and therefore harmed faction identity.

    It's a bitter pill, but as long as you actually recognize Blizzard's consistent stance on the issue.
    LOL see my EDIT in my post you quoted as you wrote this one:
    EDIT: I see you bring up Caydiem in the above post, when holy shit dude that is a post from 2005 that has been retconned by all that's happened in WoW with High Elves since Wrath and beyond, even into Legion and further his post has been retconned with the Garithos situation and how Blood Elves felt about Alliance in Chronicles Vol3.
    And no Blizzard hasn't been consistent, every way they've portrayed High Elves has been inconsistent with Caydiem's post. Garithos situation and all which have even more been retconned through Chronicles V3.

    Ion himself hasn't even been consistent since the last time he mentioned High Elves before last Blizzcon was that they could be playable like Mag'har.

  7. #1007
    The Unstoppable Force Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    Are you same anti-helf guys going to go around say they're not ever going to add playable Ogres if someone starts making threads asking for them?
    .
    i love the ability o high elf fans to compre literally everything with the High elves, it is so desperate

    Ogres are not on alliance, and the devs never said no for then

  8. #1008
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    LOL see my EDIT in my post you quoted as you wrote this one:

    And no Blizzard hasn't been consistent, every way they've portrayed High Elves has been inconsistent with Caydiem's post. Garithos situation and all which have even more been retconned through Chronicles V3.

    Ion himself hasn't even been consistent since the last time he mentioned High Elves before last Blizzcon was that they could be playable like Mag'har.
    None of what they said about the high elves, populations , their play-ability has been changed. You can "Holy shit dude" all you want, their stance has remained the same.

    You bring up Ion recognizing that some people want high elves, and what do they do? They give you void elves instead. Blood elves for all intensive storytelling purposes basically are the high elves, that was repeated by him recently. From a story standpoint it makes sense why Blizzard doesn't do it, they don't want to muddy the waters by adding a near identical people to the Alliance when their are working on the faction differences rather than similarities.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  9. #1009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    None of what they said about the high elves, populations , their play-ability has been changed. You can "Holy shit dude" all you want, their stance has remained the same.

    You bring up Ion recognizing that some people want high elves, and what do they do? They give you void elves instead. Blood elves for all intensive storytelling purposes basically are the high elves, that was repeated by him recently. From a story standpoint it makes sense why Blizzard doesn't do it, they don't want to muddy the waters by adding a near identical people to the Alliance when their are working on the faction differences rather than similarities.
    It has though, Chronicles Vol3 makes it that now there's a bigger population for High Elves existing with the evacuation of Dalaran 2700 years ago. That's many many years of time where High Elves and Humans intermingle. Yeah they're not playable now, but that doesn't mean they won't ever be - that's a common logical fallacy that keeps getting thrown about. Blizzard has gone back on many things they've said they'd never do.

    Yeah they put out Void Elves, but again you're ignoring the fact it wasn't based on players. The artists just wanted to do something new and cool, but keep ignoring that context. And from a story stand-point it wouldn't muddy the waters at all. High Elves vs Blood Elves is as iconic as Red vs Blue.

    Don't see how a group of Elves that have been de-facto Alliance for many years is suddenly "muddying the waters" by being released. Only way I can see that is if someone focuses on "Oh they just have Blue eyes," talking about the model as it currently stands is not a reason. Blizzard has already shown that they can update models like they did with Dark Irons currently in game vs Dark Iron AR. Nightborne are literally the Night Elf Highborne aesthetic blown up. Blood Elves in Chronicles Vol3 are said to have had their body/mind/soul affected by the fel siphoning. There's now a greater basis set forth to differentiate the High Elf model as an AR.

    That's what threads like these are all about, showing what themes you can blow up for High Elves when they become an AR.

  10. #1010
    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    Dude, I already said this to someone else, the new Chronicles has came out and further differentiated the High Elves and Blood Elves, even makes mentions of how the High Elves didn't feel the pangs as bad as Blood Elves did, and how Blood Elves magic siphoning changed their "mind, body, and soul" look at the 3 things there. All of it is imparting that there's more differences to Blood Elves and High Elves now than previous lore made it seem like except you and some other High Elf dissenters keep trying to stick to older lore.

    There core identities already are differentiated in-game, Elisande even points out this disntinction. High Elves intermingled w/Humans, their culture is wholly different, they do not have Elven sprawling cities like Blood Elves, they left that behind, even though they miss it. They keep to lodges instead, there's a greater presence of them using meditation/willpower instead to deal with their withdrawal rather than how Blood Elves just went all-in finding new sources of magic.

    And you don't know where the Silver Covenant came from, we know that a split occurred between the Blood Elves and High Elves, doesn't matter that they made the choice when it wasn't tested. Not all Blood Elves are specifically those who almost died with Kael until the Naga helped either, so I don't understand that point.

    Nah you see, when asking specifically for High Elves, those are the groups that had ideological differences with Blood Elves. You keep saying small numbers but again this has been retconned with Chronicles showing that all citizens of Dalaran were removed with just a few left to defend it before it got destroyed. Chronicles Vol3 has set it up so that there can be more population for High Elves than previous lore.

    You don't need to believe anything because you sound as if your mind is already made up. "How am I supposed to believe" simple they've been portrayed in the game that way and have stayed portrayed in the game that way, if you've been playing for over a year you would most likely know who the High Elves are, unless the Horde side of things just never has them come up at all or you're someone that doesn't pay attention to lore like some and think all elves are the same. Even in Legion the Quel'dorei were specifically called out.
    You're right that I won't suddenly think high elves are a good idea even if you convince me that high elves and blood elves are different culturally, but I'm here giving you the opportunity to show me that that isn't one more reason why it's a bad idea. I'm asking you to show me a situation where blood elves and high elves were in the same circumstances and made a different choice. Show me something that demonstrates a difference in values and not just circumstances.

    I'd like to see more information about this idea that the high elves didn't feel the effects of magical addiction as strongly, and I'd also like to know where exactly these high elves went. Such a difference would be a retcon, as all lore up to this point has stated that blood elves are just a faction of high elves, and Ion's comments during his interview with Jesse Cox were pretty direct that there were no major hubs for high elf adventurers to come from.

    As for the Silver Covenant, we know that they represent one group of the elves who were living in Dalaran during the Third War. Unless they can introduce a storyline where these elves went through the trials of overcoming magic addiction in a way different from the blood elves, they haven't demonstrated that they're anything more than the sheltered younger siblings of blood elves. The problem with that story, is that as residents of Dalaran, they are surrounded by arcane energy all the time. It could be possible, but there is no evidence of things moving in that direction, and it's definitely a stretch.

    And yes, high elves were called out in Legion. After all, our base of operations was Dalaran, home of the Silver Covenant, the only remaining noteworthy high elves aside from the blood elves. It didn't seem to be a consideration when Ion Hazzikostas said that blood elves were pretty much high elves. If a group's only defining trait is shacking up with humans, you've got a reasonable basis to ask for half elves, but not high elves.

    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    High Elves vs Blood Elves is as iconic as Red vs Blue.
    If that were true, we wouldn't be having this discussion, and Blizzard would have added high elves to the Alliance a very long time ago.
    Last edited by protip; 2018-03-31 at 11:03 PM.

  11. #1011
    Quote Originally Posted by The-Shan View Post
    They were pretty comfortable coming up with a 'hub' for Void Elves. They could have easily made one up for the High Elves, or just made an HD Highvale.

    It's as easy as saying "There is an outlying High Elven enclave that rejected the Sin'dorei when they joined the Horde" or something like that. It'd be the equivalent of what Taiwan is to China. They are both Chinese, but they are different nations with different values. Maybe the Horde hit them particularly hard in the Second War, and they could never side with the Horde after what they faced?

    All I'm saying is that Blizzard has never been shy of coming up with anything on the spot, and that shouldn't stop them here if population or 'a hub' had any baring.

    My theory is that High Elves were an idea, then a member of the marketing team said "No, you don't want the allied races to look like reskins!" When that's what they already look like... Which is fine.
    Right, I understand. I just mean to point out that it would need new lore.

  12. #1012
    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    The artists just wanted to do something new and cool, but keep ignoring that context.
    It's being ignored because it's bullshit. Alleria has been influenced by the void way more and is more powerful than any playable Void Elf, yet she can keep her High Elf appearance? What? Why isn't she aesthetically similar to the race she leads?

    There's something going on here and the answer you keep repeating is obviously a political-type answer to stop these questions from being asked.
    Quote Originally Posted by The-Shan View Post
    My theory is that High Elves were an idea, then a member of the marketing team said "No, you don't want the allied races to look like reskins!" When that's what they already look like... Which is fine.
    This is another fair point to consider. Aside from the players who want High Elves that would be affected, the choice of adding a race that looks so similar to the Blood Elves could hurt BFA sales.
    Last edited by Goldielocks; 2018-03-31 at 11:20 PM.

  13. #1013
    Quote Originally Posted by The-Shan View Post
    All I'm saying is that it's a volatile discussion and people need to step back a little. Typically the no crowd. I'm not pretending to be neutral. I'd like to see more on the no side of what it'd take for High Elves to be added, or what could be done instead, rather than giving the obviously unsatisfying answer of 'Just go Horde'.

    Remember, the High Elf crowd pays a subscription fee just like you. Humoring them in the discussion would be much more productive in finding a solution.
    The answer to this has been in the game for 12 years now you wanna be a generic thalassian elf you go horde cause that's the faction where blizzard wanted to make this race playable, still alliance whined and cried that they wanted to be this elf on the good guy faction seeing that this pretty much would be an insult to blood elves player on the horde blizzard met you guys halfway and gave you another answer in the form of void elves, that you don't like either it's entirely on you.

  14. #1014
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lebanese Dude View Post
    Quel'Danil isn't wretched nor destroyed. It's still thriving in Hinterlands.

    - - - Updated - - -




    Stop being a pedant. I'm linking this for context.

    There were barely any Night Elf Highborne in canon and they created an entire city out of thin air. They can create Half Elves any time they wanted.
    I get that knowing Warcraft lore can be considered nerdy, but please don't try and make arguments if you don't know what you are talking about.

    I know telling someone 'they don't know what they are talking about' is usually an annoying, patronising response but in this case, it fits.

    You use the Warcraft RPG as a source and I think you've been told a few times now that it's not canon. That means any time you quote it in a debate you're going to be laughed at. It's like using bad fanfiction.

    Secondly, saying there were barely any Night Elf Highborne is canon is a shocking assertion. They formed the highest caste of the Night Elf empire, a continent wide society and they are the progenitors of both the High/Blood Elves and the Nightborne. There were plenty of them at the time, and even a few around today who have rejoined the Night Elves.

    P.S. It is pretty sad that the best riposte to the 'no real settlements' point from Ion is Quel'Danil.

    It's a hut. It's a nice hut as huts go, but it's still a hut.

  15. #1015
    The Unstoppable Force Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldielocks View Post
    Alleria has been influenced by the void way more and is more powerful than any playable Void Elf, yet she can keep her High Elf appearance? What?
    because, obviously, she undergo another kind of ritual totally different from the void elves, here thats why

    Why isn't she aesthetically similar to the race she leads?
    because she is a special and important NPC, like the undeads are not like Sylvanus, humans not like Anduin etc

  16. #1016
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    because, obviously, she undergo another kind of ritual totally different from the void elves, here thats why
    That's an in universe reason. A writer can make up anything, but the question is why they made it that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    because she is a special and important NPC, like the undeads are not like Sylvanus, humans not like Anduin etc
    Again that's not my point. Alleria looks nothing like the Void Elves. You wouldn't even know she was afflicted by something aside from her voice, and that's not specific enough to tie her to the Void. That's pretty dumb.

    Sylvanas looks dead
    Anduin looks human
    Alleria does not look Void 99% of the time

  17. #1017
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldielocks View Post
    People keep fighting over lore reasoning, this and that, blah blah blah, but the fact of the matter is that the High Elf lore was butchered in 2007 to save WoW as it was dying from population imbalance. High Elves are Blood Elves and they're Horde because they just had to be.

    Blizzard wouldn't reverse something that basically saved their game. People have been asking for High Elves on the Alliance and Blizzard giving Void Elves instead is proof enough that they're still concerned about this.

    Take the hint.
    LOL WOW dying in 2007 XD
    Got any proof that this is the reason that they were added to the horde?.

  18. #1018
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldielocks View Post

    Again that's not my point. Alleria looks nothing like the Void Elves. You wouldn't even know she was afflicted by something aside from her voice, and that's not specific enough to tie her to the Void. That's pretty dumb.

    Sylvanas looks dead
    Anduin looks human
    Alleria does not look Void 99% of the time
    Alleria conqured the void on her own, she uses it as she pleases (for now). Your player character is a sucker that tried to play with the void and got owned big time, only to be rescued by Alleria and some Orderhall Leader of your choice of an existing race. The players got twisted by the void and learned to supress it enough to be presentable, yet no longer just blood elves. Alleria is also a high elf, previously untainted, where your player character failed for the second time .

  19. #1019
    The Unstoppable Force Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldielocks View Post
    That's an in universe reason. A writer can make up anything, but the question is why they made it that way.
    it is very simple, rly, sex appeal + important lore figure they need to show + another kind of ritual

    Alleria just absorbed a naaru and have thousand of year training, the Void elves almost become etherals
    Again that's not my point. Alleria looks nothing like the Void Elves. You wouldn't even know she was afflicted by something aside from her voice, and that's not specific enough to tie her to the Void. That's pretty dumb.
    thats actually the point though, she is the most unstable one, most dangerous, but look normal

    Sylvanas looks dead
    yeah not, she look more like a night elf, and even if she look dead, she don't look like the race she lead, she is not even human but elf, that is a bigger difference than alleria with void elves

  20. #1020
    Quote Originally Posted by Tak View Post
    LOL WOW dying in 2007 XD
    Got any proof that this is the reason that they were added to the horde?.
    Dying not so much maybe, but he is right about the faction imbalance.

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