1. #10261
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    And the audio drama wasn't about the lightforged. They were featured, but it was about them. Whereas the Highmountain tauren had an entire zone dedicated to them, and we had to explore the race's lore and past, to the point of witnessing how their 'race' came to be.
    The worst part is that both lightforged and void elves have a ton of potential for insteresting stories. The lightforged have this history of battle and war, of having no place to call home, of following rigid military order, of zealotry. All those can be interesting when clashing with civilian life, living in Azeroth, different faiths? They are also supposedly badass soldiers, an elite force that faced the Legion for millenia. Yet, there's nothing exploring them so far.

    THe void elves lack even the most basic depth. Who are they? Why they chose to study the void? How they create more of themselves? How are they adapting to the Alliance? What's their ethos? What trials a potential void elf face in order to be transformed? What elves seek them? Nothing, just nothing.

    They have nothing but potential.

    When you create a new highmountain or nightborne, and see their intro narration, it calls back to all the experiences we had with them in Legion. When you create a new void elf or lightforged, you feel like their entire lore is described in the intro narration. It doesn't summon any great memories from the player.
    Last edited by DeicideUH; 2019-05-21 at 04:23 PM.
    Whatever...

  2. #10262
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    The worst part is that both lightforged and void elves have a ton of potential for insteresting stories. The lightforged have this history of battle and war, of having no place to call home, of following rigid military order, of zealotry. All those can be interesting when clashing with civilian life, living in Azeroth, different faiths? They are also supposedly badass soldiers, an elite force that faced the Legion for millenia. Yet, there's nothing exploring them so far.
    Exactly. Imagine, even, if Blizzard brings the draenei from AU Draenor, the ones that became "Light fanatics"? And have them join the Lightforged in their zealotry.

    THe void elves lack even the most basic depth. Who are they? Why they chose to study the void? How they create more of themselves? How are they adapting to the Alliance? What's their ethos? What trials a potential void elf face in order to be transformed? What elves seek them? Nothing, just nothing.

    They have nothing but potential.
    Lil' correction there: they have nothing but wasted, unexplored potential.

    When you create a new highmountain or nightborne, and see their intro narration, it calls back to all the experiences we had with them in Legion. When you create a new void elf or lightforged, you feel like their entire lore is described in the intro narration. It doesn't summon any great memories from the player.
    Correct. The lightforged draenei and void elves' entire lore begins at the "AR unlock scenario" (that you only see once in the entire game) and ends at the narration you see on when creating a new character. It's... laughable, unfortunately.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  3. #10263
    Is there a consensus yet?

    This is my favorite thread to hop into once a week and read the latest page. It's just the same four people telling four other people, "na ah."

    I genuinely mean it, this is my favorite thread.

  4. #10264
    Quote Originally Posted by Directionalk9 View Post
    Is there a consensus yet?
    Yes, the consensus is:

    "I am correct."

    With "I" being whoever is posting at the time.

  5. #10265
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traycor View Post
    Yes, the consensus is:

    "I am correct."

    With "I" being whoever is posting at the time.
    That implies it is all down to a matter of opinion, which is incorrect.

    One side has evidence and developer commentary on it's side, the other is a passion project.

    The Anti High Elf side is correct as things stand, but that was never the point as the pro High Elf side exists to change Blizzard's mind.

  6. #10266
    Brewmaster elbleuet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    That implies it is all down to a matter of opinion, which is incorrect.

    One side has evidence and developer commentary on it's side, the other is a passion project.

    The Anti High Elf side is correct as things stand, but that was never the point as the pro High Elf side exists to change Blizzard's mind.
    Nice joke Obelisk Kai. You usually don't care about developer commentary as long as it doesn't fit your opinion.
    "If you want to play alongside High and Void elves, the Alliance is waiting for you"

  7. #10267
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    Quote Originally Posted by elbleuet View Post
    Nice joke Obelisk Kai. You usually don't care about developer commentary as long as it doesn't fit your opinion.
    What developer commentary does not match my opinion?

    Chris Metzen said Blood Elves are High Elves.

    Ion Hazzikostas said Void Elves were created to provide a different flavor of High Elves to the Alliance and that Alliance High Elves undermine the faction wall.

    Holinka talked about Void Elf customizations, saying nothing about High Elves as a Void Elf with high elf like customizations is still a Void Elf, not an Alliance High Elf.

    And Ythisens expressed his opinion after he had left the company and was never a developer.

    This is less about me ignoring developer commentary that doesn't fit my opinion, and more about me not going along with pro High Elf attempts to twist comments out of context or relying on someone's personal opinion.

  8. #10268
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    That implies it is all down to a matter of opinion, which is incorrect.

    One side has evidence and developer commentary on it's side, the other is a passion project.

    The Anti High Elf side is correct as things stand, but that was never the point as the pro High Elf side exists to change Blizzard's mind.
    And "ZOOM" goes the point miles above your head.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  9. #10269
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    And "ZOOM" goes the point miles above your head.
    Forgive me if I refuse to accept the idea that both the anti High Elf and pro High Elf cases are as well thought out and supported by the evidence as each other. One is clearly superior in that regard and pretending that it all boils down to the opinion of whomever is speaking in these forums is disingenuous.

    It does all boil down to an opinion, the opinions of the Blizzard developers and their opinions currently support the anti high elf stance.
    Last edited by Obelisk Kai; 2019-05-23 at 01:05 PM.

  10. #10270
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Forgive me if I refuse to accept the idea that both the anti High Elf and pro High Elf cases are as well thought out and supported by the evidence as each other.
    And "ZOOM" goes the point miles above your head. Again.

    Looks like @Traycor's post really struck a nerve hard on you.

    One is clearly superior in that regard and pretending that it all boils down to the opinion of whomever is speaking in these forums is disingenuous.
    The arrogance is strong on this one.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  11. #10271
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    And "ZOOM" goes the point miles above your head. Again.

    Looks like @Traycor's post really struck a nerve hard on you.


    The arrogance is strong on this one.
    How is it arrogant if it is true? The anti High Elf case is correct because it reflects the game as it is and has multiple sources from the developers reflecting their thinking on this topic.

    The pro High Elf side doesn't have that precisely because it aims to change the status quo. If your side had actual, tangible evidence to support your point of view you'd actually have playable Alliance High Elves and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

  12. #10272
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    Obelisk Kai has always been arrogant and sometimes disrespectul to others who don''t share his opinion, even if sometimes his arguments are good.
    That's precisely why this topic never ends.
    "If you want to play alongside High and Void elves, the Alliance is waiting for you"

  13. #10273
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    How is it arrogant if it is true? The anti High Elf case is correct because it reflects the game as it is and has multiple sources from the developers reflecting their thinking on this topic.

    The pro High Elf side doesn't have that precisely because it aims to change the status quo. If your side had actual, tangible evidence to support your point of view you'd actually have playable Alliance High Elves and we wouldn't be having this conversation.
    Do you understand the reason why the pro-helfers make these threads to begin with? It doesn't matter if you are factually correct, when the basic idea is based on opinions, and not facts. I think that's the idea from the lates posts here quoting you. When I first read your reply to Traycor I couldn't understand what I was reading. You do know what he meant. And he wasn't wrong.

    Sure, you are factually correct since there isn't a playable High Elf on the Alliance side(well there is, but not the one they wanted) but that doesn't matter the slightest. It all comes down to opinions. That is the core of this discussion.

    And Ion is factually wrong. There isn't a blue eyed elf playable on the Horde.
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  14. #10274
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    How is it arrogant if it is true? The anti High Elf case is correct because it reflects the game as it is and has multiple sources from the developers reflecting their thinking on this topic.

    The pro High Elf side doesn't have that precisely because it aims to change the status quo. If your side had actual, tangible evidence to support your point of view you'd actually have playable Alliance High Elves and we wouldn't be having this conversation.
    If they find a good way to introduce high elves to the alliance and thus making more money I'm pretty sure they will do this. Even if it makes no sense. But many things in wow make no sense or were "filled" with new sense (tauren paladin?).
    Sooooo I think if that happens there will be many people in here which will feed on your tears with pleasure
    Zorn | Vynd | Pheraz | Sylwina | Mondlicht | Eis | Blut | Emerelle - Plus 20 more...

  15. #10275
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pheraz View Post
    If they find a good way to introduce high elves to the alliance and thus making more money I'm pretty sure they will do this. Even if it makes no sense. But many things in wow make no sense or were "filled" with new sense (tauren paladin?).
    Sooooo I think if that happens there will be many people in here which will feed on your tears with pleasure
    The 'they will make money with it' fallacy.

    If their sole motive was to make money, why haven't they done so?
    What is stopping them?
    Why have they gone out of their way NOT to add them, to the point of creating a variant explicitly stated to take their place?

    Maybe they actually mean what they are saying regarding the negative reasons they list?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Do you understand the reason why the pro-helfers make these threads to begin with? It doesn't matter if you are factually correct, when the basic idea is based on opinions, and not facts. I think that's the idea from the lates posts here quoting you. When I first read your reply to Traycor I couldn't understand what I was reading. You do know what he meant. And he wasn't wrong.

    Sure, you are factually correct since there isn't a playable High Elf on the Alliance side(well there is, but not the one they wanted) but that doesn't matter the slightest. It all comes down to opinions. That is the core of this discussion.

    And Ion is factually wrong. There isn't a blue eyed elf playable on the Horde.
    So you agree with me. I am factually correct.

    That was the point.

    That was in contrast to Traycor claiming it was down to opinions when it is not. If you manage to sway Blizzard's opinion your way, then you will be correct.

    Until then, one side is factually correct and the other is agitating for a retcon. It is a question of substance and evidence. Everyone has an opinion, having something to back that opinion up means a lot more.

  16. #10276
    Epic! Pheraz's Avatar
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    I can literally see you tears already being swallowed.


    Wow you even dedicated your signature to this topic! Must be really important to you to play the "you will not get high elves even if they don't fit in the barbaric horde" grinch
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  17. #10277
    I think High Elves should be put in the game as playable. As Horde supporters. Finally deciding their brethren were right in changing their namesake and splitting from the Alliance that left them to die, the High Elves decide to keep their namesake while rejoining their Blood Elf brothers and sisters.

  18. #10278
    Part of the issue has been if blizzard sees high elves as a dying breed, they should have not constantly given them more screen time than some actual alliance races. A town in BC, the alliance Dalaran/argent tournament faction in WotLK, have presence in the Suramar story with all the elves etc. They say their numbers are few but they've had more story impact than gnomes or draenei in several expansions, with Draenei having very little after BC until WOD and Legion and gnomes rarely getting more than a quirky quest npc here and there.

    This discrepancy leads to the impression, intentional or not, that high elves are more numerous and influential than they apparently think is the case in lore.

    Personally, I wouldn't have minded high elves as an allied race pre void elves. But now that we do have void elves, and four elven options, there are plenty of other things I'd rather they do first. Allied races for worgen/gnomes (though we may be getting mecha gnomes it looks like), and a night elf allied race ON THE ALLIANCE are all thigns I'd want to see before we get a second set of thalnassian elves ont he Alliance. And once you get to a 'second round' of allied races, I think I'd rather see wildhammer dwarves first as well.

  19. #10279
    Quote Originally Posted by dontrelleroosevelt View Post
    It's called "contrapposto", and many people stand that way, when relaxed or confident.
    Nobody stands like that outside of modelling for perverted magazines.

  20. #10280
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    So you agree with me. I am factually correct.

    That was the point.

    That was in contrast to Traycor claiming it was down to opinions when it is not. If you manage to sway Blizzard's opinion your way, then you will be correct.

    Until then, one side is factually correct and the other is agitating for a retcon. It is a question of substance and evidence. Everyone has an opinion, having something to back that opinion up means a lot more.
    Sure, and Ion is factually incorrect so what does that tell you :P

    I am pretty sure you understand what I meant. It's all about opinions, not whos siding with two or three statements made by the devs. And when one of said statements is wrong even, it's not much to base an opinion on right? But an opinion still stands. You don't want High Elves on the Alliance. Other people do. And people have come with good arguments for why they think Alliance should have a High Elf race. Factually correct statements. If that's the only thing that matters.
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