Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Florena]

Yeah definitely do, which is odd considering the genre style that WoW is. Also yes it always depends on when and what else is added, but people like to holler for "no more elves" as if the vast majority of the people are wanting them "right this second" when the talking is usually happening for the further future.

I don't know who could genuinely think we'll see another type of elf AR after we've received two elves this expansion already. I say this expansion because Legion AR were a BFA pre-order.

In retrospect I think it may have been in part because of the timing. When the first ARs came out, it was 2/4 elf races, half of the new options. And void elves being a new lore invention probably didn't help either.

[Neverafter]

Let's pretend Blizzard decided to make Playable Alliance High Elves.

Whether it be a scenario of the Silver Covenant, Blood Elf defectors, "redeemed" Void Elves, etc; for this discussion doesn't matter. What then? What does the Horde get?

To be fair, if the Alliance is getting a Horde race swap, it is only fair for the Horde to get one in return.

Human, gnome, dwarf and night elf are difficult to imagine ANY scenario to make any group of those races to leave the Alliance and join the Horde.

The only races I can possibly conceive would be Draenei or Worgen, but even then there is some lore to be developed and/or stretched.

Horde Draenei
The easiest (and laziest) would be to have a group of Eredar after the collapse of the legion join the Horde. For this to work, however, there would first have to be a group of Eredar left alive and be outright rejected by the Alliance and Draenei and desperate for protection of the Horde.

Horde Worgen
At first I had placed Worgen firmly in the "no way Horde" group. But Worgen doesn't necessarily have to mean Gilnean. What if the Tauren and Troll Druids of the Horde had connected with the Feral Worgen that had been imprisoned long ago in the Emerald Dream (stretching lore, I know...). These worgen only had one form, their beastial form. After some sort of scenerio they may feel more at home with the Horde than the Alliance.

FOR THE RECORD, I am not saying that these scenerios WILL happen. What I am saying, is if the Alliance gets High Elves, what does the Horde get?

[FlubberPuddy]

FOR THE RECORD, I am not saying that these scenerios WILL happen. What I am saying, is if the Alliance gets High Elves, what does the Horde get?

Whatever they're hoping to get? Just like with every AR request?

It's strange to see this question posed to the High Elf topic only when you could go into every AR thread and ask such a question.

Let's go to the Ogre request thread and ask what AR what would the Alliance get? No one gives a shit, they're already asking for the races they want in their own separate topics.

If you're not going into all other AR thread putting this expectation on them as well, don't be trying to put that expectation on the High Elf topic.

Blizzard even said it's not always going to be a paired thing. For all we know, if we're pretending this scenario of High Elves becoming playable then it could be added on its own with no pair. A common cited one has been to do Ogres or San'layn.

But truly that isn't up to us people who are requesting for one thing, and Blizzard explicitly stated that pairs aren't a must.

[Neverafter]

Whatever they're hoping to get? Just like with every AR request?

It's strange to see this question posed to the High Elf topic only when you could go into every AR thread and ask such a question.

Let's go to the Ogre request thread and ask what AR what would the Alliance get? No one gives a shit, they're already asking for the races they want in their own separate topics.

If you're not going into all other AR thread putting this expectation on them as well, don't be trying to put that expectation on the High Elf topic.

Blizzard even said it's not always going to be a paired thing. For all we know, if we're pretending this scenario of High Elves becoming playable then it could be added on its own with no pair. A common cited one has been to do Ogres or San'layn.

But truly that isn't up to us people who are requesting for one thing, and Blizzard explicitly stated that pairs aren't a must.

No other requested Allied Race is a *race* swap like High Elves are with Blood Elves. So yes, it is a fair question to ask if the Alliance gets playable High Elves that the Horde should be compensated in a similar way.

*Faction swap, not race swap*

[Directionalk9]

No other requested Allied Race is a race swap like High Elves are with Blood Elves. So yes, it is a fair question to ask if the Alliance gets playable High Elves that the Horde should be compensated in a similar way.

I woulda said Dark Irons a year or so ago, but fuck it, make us true bad guys and give us Hordies, the Man’ari Eredar.

[FlubberPuddy]

No other requested Allied Race is a *race* swap like High Elves are with Blood Elves. So yes, it is a fair question to ask if the Alliance gets playable High Elves that the Horde should be compensated in a similar way.

*Faction swap, not race swap*

First, I don’t agree with your premise. Second, I already explained why it’s not fair per Blizzard’s own comments.

If you wanna keep pushing it go ahead but it’s not some set requirement that it must be followed. This is just another player misconception based on headcanon.

Forgoing all that, as pointed out - Red Eredar seems like a popular request by Horde players. Some even used to request Dark Iron but we see already thats over on Alliance side.

[Neverafter]

First, I don’t agree with your premise. Second, I already explained why it’s not fair per Blizzard’s own comments.

If you wanna keep pushing it go ahead but it’s not some set requirement that it must be followed. This is just another player misconception based on headcanon.

Forgoing all that, as pointed out - Red Eredar seems like a popular request by Horde players. Some even used to request Dark Iron but we see already thats over on Alliance side.

First, if you want to argue that Blood Elves and High Elves aren't related, that's an argument you will have to take up with yourself.

Second, the only thing I can find from Blizzard saying Allied Races weren't always going to be paired is from Ion in a Q&A from 3/15/18 where he says

"Allied Races will always come out in pairs for now, but in the long run they may not come out for both factions at the same time."

So again, it is absolutely fair if the Alliance is given a race that is as similar to Blood Elves as High Elves are that the Horde would be compensated in kind.

I don't understand the open hostility, if anything you should be encouraging Horde fans to be involved and add to the chatter and not attempt to shut down any discussions about High Elves.

[FlubberPuddy]

I don't understand the open hostility, if anything you should be encouraging Horde fans to be involved and add to the chatter and not attempt to shut down any discussions about High Elves.

You seem more interested in causing a ruckus over small comments that don't focus on the question you asked in the first place. You're not even responding to the potential races that were suggested.

This is why I wanted to nip it in the bud. People who ask that typically come in here more to argue than actually come to a consensus.

[Obelisk Kai]

Sure, and Ion is factually incorrect so what does that tell you :P

I am pretty sure you understand what I meant. It's all about opinions, not whos siding with two or three statements made by the devs. And when one of said statements is wrong even, it's not much to base an opinion on right? But an opinion still stands. You don't want High Elves on the Alliance. Other people do. And people have come with good arguments for why they think Alliance should have a High Elf race. Factually correct statements. If that's the only thing that matters.

I am not sure how you got the conclusion 'ion is factually incorrect'. Blood Elves being High Elves is a pretty consistent stance held by the game for a very long time.

If this is about evidence, not opinions. One side has evidence, the other side does not. And one side has spent the better part of the past few years trying to argue why that evidence doesn't matter or shouldn't matter because they have none of their own to offer.

You do it here in fact, by attempting to diminish the statements made because only two or three have been written. Let us remind ourselves what those 'two or three' were though. Chris Metzen, the creator of the franchise's lore, affirming Blood Elves are the High Elves of the Warcraft universe in 2006. Ion Hazzikostas in 2017 affirming the reason Alliance High Elves weren't added was because Blood Elves are High Elves, and that giving that option to the Alliance undermines the faction boundary. And Ion Hazzikostas repeating himself in 2018.

When I express my views on this, my opinion is backed up by evidence such as that. When a pro High Elfer expresses an opinion, it is in the hope they can convince Blizzard to change their minds. That is a fundamental and important difference.

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And the arrogance continues. And the point continues to fly miles ahead over your head.

EDIT: And since this is the third time you miss the point, I'll help you out: Traycor's point was that everyone here believes to be in the right and the "other side" in the wrong.

And it's beyond amusing how you continue to prove him right with your responses.

Can you please quote the developers who came out and agreed Alliance High Elves can be differentiated from Blood Elves without damaging the factions.

Can you please quote the developers who said Blood Elves are not High Elves.

Can you please quote the developers who have stated that the Alliance High Elf population is not cratering.

You can't, because no developer has said such a thing. I can quote developers who have said the opposite.

Traycor's point rests on everyone merely having their own opinion. The reason I dispute his point is that it is a naked attempt to drag the opposition down to the pro High Elf level, where everything is a subjective opinion that is equally valid. That is not the case. The anti High Elf side has evidence to support it's views. Just because the pro High Elf side has no equivalent is no reason for my side of the argument to pretend we have none.

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First, I don’t agree with your premise. Second, I already explained why it’s not fair per Blizzard’s own comments.

If you wanna keep pushing it go ahead but it’s not some set requirement that it must be followed. This is just another player misconception based on headcanon.

Forgoing all that, as pointed out - Red Eredar seems like a popular request by Horde players. Some even used to request Dark Iron but we see already thats over on Alliance side.

His premise is that as High Elves are identical to Blood Elves, that Alliance High Elves means de facto sharing a Horde race, then the Horde would either

a.) Get a race identical to a current Alliance race. Red Eredar do not count, they are a variant, similar to Nightborne or Void Elves in conception. An identical race would be exactly the same as blue Draenei.

or

b.) Get a brand new race. Which will of course trigger a massive backlash.

Neither option is appealing. But that is the sort of consequence that should be expected from such a request and should be indicative that the request for Alliance High Elves cannot be and never has been judged in isolation from those consequences.

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First, if you want to argue that Blood Elves and High Elves aren't related, that's an argument you will have to take up with yourself.

Second, the only thing I can find from Blizzard saying Allied Races weren't always going to be paired is from Ion in a Q&A from 3/15/18 where he says

"Allied Races will always come out in pairs for now, but in the long run they may not come out for both factions at the same time."

So again, it is absolutely fair if the Alliance is given a race that is as similar to Blood Elves as High Elves are that the Horde would be compensated in kind.

I don't understand the open hostility, if anything you should be encouraging Horde fans to be involved and add to the chatter and not attempt to shut down any discussions about High Elves.

I remember that question asked of Ion. It was asking whether Allied races would always come in pairs or whether one faction would get a race and have more options than the other. Ion's answer was his usual style, they'll come in pairs but in the long run, anything can happen.

They know that giving an Allied race to one side and not giving a counterpart to the other would trigger a shitshow. And while 'anything can happen', they aren't going to do it. This is common sense, why generate such a bad news cycle when you can just give both sides both races at the same time.

Even if they did give one side an extra Allied race, the expectation would be that the other faction would get an equivalent Allied race in a future update. No faction is going to be left 'one down'. So your question is perfectly legitimate, if the Alliance were to get Alliance High Elves, what would the Horde get?

[FlubberPuddy]

should be indicative that the request for Alliance High Elves cannot be and never has been judged in isolation from those consequences.

Pretty sure it has if Afrasiabi is saying it's possible for Void Elves to get some High Elf skins to get that "High Elf feeling".

I believe that those against High Elves are simply making it a bigger deal than it really would be in an effort to prevent it from happening. And I've always said that they weren't going to release another elf race so close to the release of Void Elves so people get to also use this time to strengthen that.

But BFA will end, Void Elves won't be fresh longer, and Alliance will come around to getting another Elf race among its ranks. I'm interested to see what Blizzard will cook up then, considering the request for playable High Elves isn't going away anytime soon.

[Doffen]

I am not sure how you got the conclusion 'ion is factually incorrect'. Blood Elves being High Elves is a pretty consistent stance held by the game for a very long time.

Playable Blood Elves doesn't have blue eyes. That's the conclusion. So yeah, factually incorrect on that one. If you don't count Dks. But that would be cheating. I didn't say that the other two was not correct, nor did I diminish those who came with those statements. In fact, Chris Metzen for me is as WoG you get, if you know what I mean.

[Obelisk Kai]

Pretty sure it has if Afrasiabi is saying it's possible for Void Elves to get some High Elf skins to get that "High Elf feeling".

That is not an Alliance High Elf. That is a Void Elf, and a confused Void Elf at that. And Afrasiabi merely stated it was possible, not that they were open to the idea, or that they promised doing it.

I would assume that if Bronzebeard Dwarves were given the option to sport Wildhammer tattoos, you wouldn't go around saying Wildhammers were playable after all.

I believe that those against High Elves are simply making it a bigger deal than it really would be in an effort to prevent it from happening. And I've always said that they weren't going to release another elf race so close to the release of Void Elves so people get to also use this time to strengthen that.

Yes, you have always said that. You say that because you refuse to accept that one of the reasons for creating Void Elves in the first place was to replace Alliance High Elves. Even Afrasiabi was visibly nodding as the Lost Codex guys described Void Elves as filling that High Elf niche because that is part of what they are meant to do, give a kind of Blood Elf, a unique flavour of High Elf, to the Alliance that does not undermine the identity of the Blood Elves or the integrity of the Horde. If they ever intended to add Alliance High Elves they would have never created Void Elves. And Void Elves themselves make Alliance High Elves unlikely, as they would undermine the Void Elf niche of the thalassian elves of the Alliance.

But BFA will end, Void Elves won't be fresh longer, and Alliance will come around to getting another Elf race among its ranks. I'm interested to see what Blizzard will cook up then, considering the request for playable High Elves isn't going away anytime soon.

And when BFA ends they have also been clear that they do not want to continue introducing Allied races at the same cadence as they have previously, that they will in fact get much, much rarer. The chances of Blizzard therefore essentially wasting the opportunity to add something new to the Alliance post BFA, something which may come along every two or four years rather than every six months as it is right now, on an already existing race strikes me as absurd.

Alliance High Elves were rejected for a reason. And the desire for them was not unknown, they knew and they still created Void Elves instead.
The importance of the faction wall is not BFA specific. The moment 9.0 goes live is not the moment Blizzard decides to bastardise and homogenise the factions.

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Playable Blood Elves doesn't have blue eyes. That's the conclusion. So yeah, factually incorrect on that one. If you don't count Dks. But that would be cheating. I didn't say that the other two was not correct, nor did I diminish those who came with those statements. In fact, Chris Metzen for me is as WoG you get, if you know what I mean.

He joked about getting the Blood Elves contact lenses, so he is aware of the eye colour discrepancy. As you know, there is an outstanding request from many Blood Elf players to have a blue eye colour option provided once advanced customization options come in. Ion recently talked about eye colour being one of their easier customization options to do, so that option should be provided in the next year or two. It will be interesting to see if Blood Elves do get blue eyes, which I believe they should.

And I believe they should because attempting to hold onto a single eye colour as some kind of major differentiating feature between Blood Elves and Alliance High Elves merely demonstrates just how little difference there is between the two. It's an eye colour! That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. If we get an eye colour customization option, keeping blue off Blood Elves for the sake of a group Blizzard has been clear they don't want to add seems really petty.

[Ielenia]

Can you please quote the developers who came out and agreed Alliance High Elves can be differentiated from Blood Elves without damaging the factions.

Can you please quote the developers who said Blood Elves are not High Elves.

Can you please quote the developers who have stated that the Alliance High Elf population is not cratering.

You can't, because no developer has said such a thing. I can quote developers who have said the opposite.

Holy frolicking cow, how much more arrogantly dense can you get? I've explained the entire point of his to you and you still miss it completely. I'm starting to think you're doing it intentionally, now.

Traycor's point rests on everyone merely having their own opinion. The reason I dispute his point is that it is a naked attempt to drag the opposition down to the pro High Elf level, where everything is a subjective opinion that is equally valid.

You're doing nothing of what you think you're doing. You're just proving him right. Again and again with each of your responses regarding this.

"I have the developers' words backing me up!" So what? If you go to a restaurant, and find the undersides of the tables are littered with dried up chewed bubblegum, the table cloths are grimy, the seats smell moldy, you swear you saw a rat coming out of the kitchen, but the restaurant owner tells you his restaurant is pristine clean... would you take his words as correct? I hope not!

The developers can cry out to the high heavens about "low high elf population" and "blurring faction lines" all they want. But the fact is that they've gone against those two statements by releasing void elves.

[Obelisk Kai]

You're doing nothing of what you think you're doing. You're just proving him right. Again and again with each of your responses regarding this.

"I have the developers' words backing me up!" So what? If you go to a restaurant, and find the undersides of the tables are littered with dried up chewed bubblegum, the table cloths are grimy, the seats smell moldy, you swear you saw a rat coming out of the kitchen, but the restaurant owner tells you his restaurant is pristine clean... would you take his words as correct? I hope not!

The developers can cry out to the high heavens about "low high elf population" and "blurring faction lines" all they want. But the fact is that they've gone against those two statements by releasing void elves.

The problem with your analogy is that the restaurant owner is clearly lying.

That is not the case here. Fiction is subject to the whims of the author, what they say is true is true.

Here, you are the one setting yourself above what they have said, by saying they are wrong. They cannot be wrong, they are the authors. You do not have the authority to declare them wrong, particularly when using Void Elves as an counter-example as Void Elves can make more Void Elves, and they are not identical to Blood Elves and therefore do not blur the faction lines.

Traycor's point is NOT proven. An opinion backed by evidence is superior to an opinion that is not.

[Doffen]

Ion recently talked about eye colour being one of their easier customization options to do, so that option should be provided in the next year or two. It will be interesting to see if Blood Elves do get blue eyes, which I believe they should.

And I believe they should because attempting to hold onto a single eye colour as some kind of major differentiating feature between Blood Elves and Alliance High Elves merely demonstrates just how little difference there is between the two. It's an eye colour! That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. If we get an eye colour customization option, keeping blue off Blood Elves for the sake of a group Blizzard has been clear they don't want to add seems really petty.

Yeah, I hope they add blue eyes for Blood Elves, personal request for me. Would fit better with for example my hunter. Golden eyes on my paladin and priest is very nice, and I am all for more options.

[Ielenia]

The problem with your analogy is that the restaurant owner is clearly lying.

How do you know? In his eyes, his restaurant could be 'pristine clean'. I've seen and heard of people with worse delusions.

Here, you are the one setting yourself above what they have said, by saying they are wrong. They cannot be wrong, they are the authors.

They can be wrong. To the point they were corrected on stage by the famous "Red Shirt Guy". They say they "don't want to blur the faction lines" and yet that is precisely what they have done with void elves and nightborne. The nightborne being an even worse offender than void elves, mind you, because with void elves you at least you have the excuse of their skin being a different color.

You do not have the authority to declare them wrong, particularly when using Void Elves as an counter-example as Void Elves can make more Void Elves,

And so could the high elves get a "population boost" through a myriad of possible ways. One of which even you admitted to being a possibility.

and they are not identical to Blood Elves and therefore do not blur the faction lines.

Same model. Same animations. Same silhouette. 9/10 times you won't know if it's a blood elf or void elf unless you select/mouse over them to check their health bar/name/outline color. They basically are identical to blood elves in the sense of "blurring faction lines".

Traycor's point is NOT proven.

Except it is, and you continue to do so. Even now.

An opinion backed by evidence is superior to an opinion that is not.

Both sides have evidence.

[Strippling]

You don't want High Elves on the Alliance. Other people do. And people have come with good arguments for why they think Alliance should have a High Elf race. Factually correct statements. If that's the only thing that matters.

Unfortunately, these "good" arguments come at the expense of faction identity, which Blizzard have iterated on several occasions recently that the faction divide is integral to WoW. Factually, yes there are some high elfs aligned with the Alliance. Lore wise, they are so few in number (confirmed on several occasions by devs, despite what you may think in game). Gameplay wise, they are the same as blood elfs in nearly every aspect, and as such their inclusion as an AR would undermine the faction barrier.

"Good" arguments don't matter if they ultimately undermine core features of the game. And on top of that, Blizzard has very clearly stated that blood elfs are the continuation of the high elven story. Adding high elfs to the Alliance would undermine this core feature of the Blood Elfs, WHO ARE the main high elven society in WoW today. However, some folks don't seem to care about this, as long as they can have their light skinned elf fantasy on the Alliance.

Lastly, Ion was not factually wrong. DK blood elf = blue eyed elf on the horde

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It's strange to see this question posed to the High Elf topic only when you could go into every AR thread and ask such a question.

Let's go to the Ogre request thread and ask what AR what would the Alliance get? No one gives a shit, they're already asking for the races they want in their own separate topics.

If you're not going into all other AR thread putting this expectation on them as well, don't be trying to put that expectation on the High Elf topic.

The difference is the other AR requests don't cross faction boundaries like high elfs do. So your argument is invalid.

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Pretty sure it has if Afrasiabi is saying it's possible for Void Elves to get some High Elf skins to get that "High Elf feeling".

It's possible for void elfs to never get any high elven customization either. You really are clinging on to Afrasiabi's comments for dear life. It's possible for high elfs to defect from the Alliance. It's possible for high elfs to be killed off. It's possible that we may never see another high elf NPC again. ANything is possible, like Alex said. You get my drift..

[Doffen]

Lastly, Ion was not factually wrong. DK blood elf = blue eyed elf on the horde

Like I said

If you don't count Dks. But that would be cheating.

It does look good though, my Blood Elf DK is probably one of my favorites when it comes to the look/transmog. And don't forget, Void Elves also got blue eyes. And they are also fair skinned. Fair blue skinned

[Ielenia]

Unfortunately, these "good" arguments come at the expense of faction identity, which Blizzard have iterated on several occasions recently that the faction divide is integral to WoW.

And this so-called "faction identity", that Blizzard claims is "integral to WoW", had been basically rendered moot with the addition of nightborne and void elves, so that excuse doesn't fly, anymore.

[Strippling]

And this so-called "faction identity", that Blizzard claims is "integral to WoW", had been basically rendered moot with the addition of nightborne and void elves, so that excuse doesn't fly, anymore.

You don't get to choose whether Blizzards "excuses" fly or not. It's their game, and they have explicitly stated that high elfs would blur factions lines. You thinking otherwise comes across as "arrogant", a word you've been hypocritically throwing at Obelisk.

Nighborne / void elfs rendering the faction divide argument moot is your opinion, nothing more.