Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Neverafter]

I'm not missing the point. Implementation is the easiest part on developing the playable high elf race.
/Easy: give us high elves and not blood elves.

How? How are you going to do that? How are you going to make a High Elf different from a Blood Elf?

Simple: have Anduin formally induct the Silver Covenant into the Alliance. Like he did with the Dark Irons when you completed their introduction quest chain. This is one possible solution out of many.

This goes back to the previous question. How. Right now you are taking a Blood Elf, changing the eye color and saying welcome to the Alliance. That has been dismissed out of hand by Blizzard and that is what the entire issue at hand is.

The point is lore, and the void elves are not high elf lore, they're blood elf lore. They're Horde elves, elves that accepted Kael'Thas teachings to drain mana from living beings, etc, etc.

Ok. Even distending the belief that Blood Elves are High Elves and thus Void Elf Lore IS High Elf Lore, you still have High Elves learning the void. Lets pretend in patch 8.3.5 Blizzard adds a questline where a group of High Elves take up the ritual to become void elves and in the process are able to retain some of their High Elven features, but retain Void Elven racials, etc. What then? Would that be enough? I realize you don't speak for an entire community, but for you personnally, would that be enough, to play a Void Elf, that had been a member of the Silver Covenant, you watch them take on the ritual to become a Void Elf, and you play a Void Elf, with fair skin. Would that be enough?

[Ielenia]

The high elf race is already playable. That's "so what".

Objectively false because I don't see any race named "High elf" in the Alliance side race selection screen.

There's even less distinction between high elves and blood elves. Yet you think they're distinct enough to be playable.

Except I'm not arguing making them physically distinct is necessary.

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How? How are you going to do that? How are you going to make a High Elf different from a Blood Elf?

This goes back to the previous question. How.

I've already answered it to you. Twice. You continue to ignore the answer.

Right now you are taking a Blood Elf, changing the eye color and saying welcome to the Alliance.

Just like Blizzard took a blood elf, changed skin color and said "welcome to the Alliance"?

Ok. Even distending the belief that Blood Elves are High Elves and thus Void Elf Lore IS High Elf Lore, you still have High Elves learning the void.

Still wouldn't be a good compromise because of the bad taste Blizzard's choices for the implementation of void elves left in the proverbial mouths of the pro-high elf community. Blizzard had the perfect opportunity to release high elves to the Alliance, and yet they squandered it, to avoid using stronger words.

[Neverafter]

I've already answered it to you. Twice. You continue to ignore the answer.

You have answered your own questions without regard for the point I had originally asked.

Just like Blizzard took a blood elf, changed skin color and said "welcome to the Alliance"?

And had a quest line, a purpose behind the skin color change, in addition to hair and other features that Blood Elves do not have access to. The point being, you are not getting Blood Elves with a different eye color. Ignore that fact, pretend Blizzard is wrong, whatever you want to do. Until a viable option is made, the "High Elf or Nothing" chants will continue to be met with Blizzards answer. Nothing.

Still wouldn't be a good compromise because of the bad taste Blizzard's choices for the implementation of void elves left in the proverbial mouths of the pro-high elf community. Blizzard had the perfect opportunity to release high elves to the Alliance, and yet they squandered it, to avoid using stronger words.

Blizzard played their cards cautiously as they always do. Instead of making constructive criticisms or suggestions, the majority of the High Elven community have resorted to temper tantrums and literally saying Blizzard is wrong in their own lore.

[Aldo Hawk]

We cannot invent a new concept out of nowhere since we are requesting for an existing asset to be made playable (1) with all that it implies.

There have already been many suggestions of possible things that they could use for playable HE, we cannot do the dev's work, since they are the ones who would work on that in the end, and not us.

(1) When an Allied Race is added, it -always- come with new assets for it, that's Blizzard's work, not us, since we are not developers and we can only suggest and being extra specific with suggestions is not the way to go.

[Neverafter]

We cannot invent a new concept out of nowhere since we are requesting for an existing asset to be made playable (1) with all that it implies.

There have already been many suggestions of possible things that they could use for playable HE, we cannot do the dev's work, since they are the ones who would work on that in the end, and not us.

(1) When an Allied Race is added, it -always- come with new assets for it, that's Blizzard's work, not us, since we are not developers and we can only suggest and being extra specific with suggestions is not the way to go.

That is exactly my point.

You aren't getting Blue Eyed Blood Elves.

Everything up to this point has been met with "That's not High Elven enough". Why would Blizzard do anything else with regards to High Elves if the only option that would make them happy is the one option that would destroy any purpose of factions?

[Garretdejiko]

--- snip ---

[Aldo Hawk]

That is exactly my point.

You aren't getting Blue Eyed Blood Elves.

Everything up to this point has been met with "That's not High Elven enough". Why would Blizzard do anything else with regards to High Elves if the only option that would make them happy is the one option that would destroy any purpose of factions?

Destroy the purposes of factions? What are you on about?

High elves are Alliance, there is not 'purpose of factions' to destroy, it's an existing part of such faction, it's -current- identity. They are already there, is not a faction swap in any given mean since this game has told us that High elves are alliance enough times to consider them Alliance members.

[Ielenia]

You have answered your own questions without regard for the point I had originally asked.

You asked "how to implement them", and I answered "how to implement them", twice already. If that is not what you want to hear, perhaps you should be a little more specific with your question instead of making it vague.

And had a quest line,

And so would the high elves, assuming they're implemented as an allied race and not like a "normal" race (i.e. like the worgen/draenei/goblin/etc)

a purpose behind the skin color change, in addition to hair and other features that Blood Elves do not have access to.

All of that is irrelevant, since those "skin color, hair and other features" can and are available to blood elves, with gameplay limitations being the sole reason why they're not.

The point being, you are not getting Blood Elves with a different eye color.

Good, because we don't want blood elves. We want high elves.

Ignore that fact,

What fact? Especially since Blizzard has said that high elf customization is "possible"?

Instead of making constructive criticisms or suggestions, the majority of the High Elven community have resorted to temper tantrums and literally saying Blizzard is wrong in their own lore.

Perhaps you should remove your bias and look more critically. That's not what the "majority" is doing.

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You aren't getting Blue Eyed Blood Elves.

You're not Blizzard.

[Neverafter]

Destroy the purposes of factions? What are you on about?

High elves are Alliance, there is not 'purpose of factions' to destroy, it's an existing part of such faction, it's -current- identity. They are already there, is not a faction swap in any given mean since this game has told us that High elves are alliance enough times to consider them Alliance members.

The Continuum of Elven Inclusivity

(1)-----(2)-----(3)-----(4)-----(5)-----(6)

As it exists now, we are at a 3. Both factions have a Thalassian Elf model and a Kaldorei Elf Model.

Moving past a 3 begins to diminish the Factions as it pertains to playable races.

High Elves are Alliance. It is an existing part of the faction, it is current, they are there.

It is absolutely a faction swap to give Blue Eyed Blood Elves to the Alliance. There is no other way around it. If "Gimme High Elves" is all you are going to offer, they will never be playable on the Alliance.

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You asked "how to implement them", and I answered "how to implement them", twice already. If that is not what you want to hear, perhaps you should be a little more specific with your question instead of making it vague.

Wrong. I asked how to implement High Elves without being a direct swap of blood elves, giving them lore, context, and visualy distinguishing features. You answered with, gimme.

And so would the high elves, assuming they're implemented as an allied race and not like a "normal" race (i.e. like the worgen/draenei/goblin/etc)

The quest line can't simply be the introduction of the Silver Covenant. There is nothing separating them from Blood Elves. Blood Elves aren't happening on the Alliance.

All of that is irrelevant, since those "skin color, hair and other features" can and are available to blood elves, with gameplay limitations being the sole reason why they're not.

Gameplay, Factions existing, etc.

Good, because we don't want blood elves. We want high elves.

Based on every single available peice of lore, a High Elf is a Blood Elf with Blue Eyes. Perhaps there is a language barrier or something else in effect here. I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. How do YOU define a High Elf if it is not a Blood Elf with Blue Eyes?

Perhaps you should remove your bias and look more critically. That's not what the "majority" is doing.

Perhaps you should remove your bias, read what is being presented, and then respond.

You're not Blizzard.

And neither are you. Thankfully we have Ion Hozzikostas who is and has plainly said Blue Eyed Blood Elves aren't happening.

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You're not using the word "trigger" correctly, first of all. Secondly, Blood Elves WERE High Elves, but are no longer. If you don't know that, you shouldn't even be here!

Please try harder to troll in the future please.

Blood Elves were High Elves. They are the continuation of High Elves. They are the legacy of the High Elves. Long live the High Elves of Warcraft, the mighty might Blood Elves.

[Aldo Hawk]

The Continuum of Elven Inclusivity

(1)-----(2)-----(3)-----(4)-----(5)-----(6)

As it exists now, we are at a 3. Both factions have a Thalassian Elf model and a Kaldorei Elf Model.

Moving past a 3 begins to diminish the Factions as it pertains to playable races.

High Elves are Alliance. It is an existing part of the faction, it is current, they are there.

It is absolutely a faction swap to give Blue Eyed Blood Elves to the Alliance. There is no other way around it. If "Gimme High Elves" is all you are going to offer, they will never be playable on the Alliance.

If 'Gimme High Elves' is all you get from here i think you should reconsider some things as you are not on touch with the matter.

There has been already a case of a literal carbon copy race between both factions and nothing happened, and more recently we had versions of former Horde and Alliance race models swapped, and nothing happened.

You can't defeat the purposes of the factions unless you are literally leaving to the player the option of placing his character in whatever faction he decides, which has only happened with Pandaren and not every available race. In this case, a High elf is not a Blood elf and if it gets added it will certainly come with tweaks to it as any existing race that became allied race did by developing on their assets.

Do you know what you mean by saying that this would defeat the purposes of the factions? Because for me that would be the option to place any character in whatever faction while at the same time being able to play with members of the other faction as if they were in mine. THAT'S a defeated faction concept.

[Ielenia]

Wrong. I asked how to implement High Elves without being a direct swap of blood elves, giving them lore, context, and visualy distinguishing features. You answered with, gimme.

No, you just asked how to implement them. And "without being a direct swap of blood elves" and "giving them lore" are moot points since void elves are exactly that. Lore and context? We have both. We have the Silver Covenant and all the high elves that remain sided with the Alliance. Visually distinguishing features? Again, we have void elves and nightborne. That ship has sunk an expansion ago.

The quest line can't simply be the introduction of the Silver Covenant. There is nothing separating them from Blood Elves.

Why not? And we have enough lore to distinguish both, to the point of there having a massive rift between the two groups.

Blood Elves aren't happening on the Alliance.

Thank goodness no one in the pro-high elf community is asking for blood elves in the Alliance. Here's a newsflash for you: one reason why the void elves are so maligned in the pro-high elf community is because they're blood elves and not high elves.

Gameplay, Factions existing, etc.

"Factions existing" is another moot point thanks to the introduction of nightborne and void elves.

Based on every single available peice of lore, a High Elf is a Blood Elf with Blue Eyes.

When you ignore all evidence on the contrary, of course all the evidence you see points to your conclusion. How about the massive rift between the two groups? Their culture differences?

Perhaps there is a language barrier or something else in effect here.

Void elves can actually speak the blood elf language.

How do YOU define a High Elf if it is not a Blood Elf with Blue Eyes?

I define high elves as the elves who still stood by their principles, refusing to drain mana from living beings and demons, stayed on the side of the Light, and still loyal to the Alliance.

Thankfully we have Ion Hozzikostas who is and has plainly said Blue Eyed Blood Elves aren't happening.

Just like Blizzard has been plainly saying vanilla servers "aren't happening" for over a decade, now? Remind me what Blizzard game is currently in 'beta' right now, please?

[Neverafter]

If 'Gimme High Elves' is all you get from here i think you should reconsider some things as you are not on touch with the matter.

There has been already a case of a literal carbon copy race between both factions and nothing happened, and more recently we had versions of former Horde and Alliance race models swapped, and nothing happened.

You can't defeat the purposes of the factions unless you are literally leaving to the player the option of placing his character in whatever faction he decides, which has only happened with Pandaren and not every available race. In this case, a High elf is not a Blood elf and if it gets added it will certainly come with tweaks to it as any existing race that became allied race did by developing on their assets.

Do you know what you mean by saying that this would defeat the purposes of the factions? Because for me that would be the option to place any character in whatever faction while at the same time being able to play with members of the other faction as if they were in mine. THAT'S a defeated faction concept.

Again, the continuum shows that we are only at an Option 3. There was no "literal carbon copy" between both factions. There were alterations, additions, and changes enough to not cross any factional divide.

What you are asking is tantamount to making Blood Elves neutral. You say "a High Elf is not a Blood elf and if it gets added it will certainly come with tweaks to it as any existing race that became allied race did by developing on their assets." That is my entire point. Thus far, no suggestion has been made.

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[QUOTE=Ielenia;51253790]No, you just asked how to implement them. And "without being a direct swap of blood elves" and "giving them lore" are moot points since void elves are exactly that. Lore and context? We have both. We have the Silver Covenant and all the high elves that remain sided with the Alliance. Visually distinguishing features? Again, we have void elves and nightborne. That ship has sunk an expansion ago.[quote]
They are not moot points and I have already told you repeatedly why. You simply choose to ignore any facts that don't align with your opinion.

And Void Elves and Nighbourne are visually distinct.

Why not? And we have enough lore to distinguish both, to the point of there having a massive rift between the two groups.

Because that is a Blood Elf.

Thank goodness no one in the pro-high elf community is asking for blood elves in the Alliance. Here's a newsflash for you: one reason why the void elves are so maligned in the pro-high elf community is because they're blood elves and not high elves.

Wrong again. That is exactly what the pro-high elves are asking.

"Factions existing" is another moot point thanks to the introduction of nightborne and void elves.

Wrong again. See above. They are distinct.

When you ignore all evidence on the contrary, of course all the evidence you see points to your conclusion. How about the massive rift between the two groups? Their culture differences?

The only person ignoring lore is you. The massive rift between the two groups. One group is Alliance, one is Horde. All other issues have dissolved and resolved with the Sunwell. Cultural differences are hardly enough to make a viable race, especially when any differences are minimal.

Void elves can actually speak the blood elf language.

I was referring to you, yourself, as having a language barrier.

I define high elves as the elves who still stood by their principles, refusing to drain mana from living beings and demons, stayed on the side of the Light, and still loyal to the Alliance.

Ok. This is a start. The blood elves used to drain mana from living beings and demons. That is no longer the case following the Sunwell. Problem solved.
Blood Elves never gave up the light. Some resorted to draining from a Naaru, but they remained Paladins and Priests. As far as that goes, the Silver Covenant is viewed more Arcane than Light based, so that point is moot. So the only defining characteristic left is the whole point of all of this, they have remained loyal to the Alliance. That's it.

Just like Blizzard has been plainly saying vanilla servers "aren't happening" for over a decade, now? Remind me what Blizzard game is currently in 'beta' right now, please?

Wow Classic. They decided their was enough of a market to potentially be profitable to produce a classic experience for a game they produced in the past.

That is in no way similar to the discussion at hand. "But Blizzard changed their mind". Yea. Good people do. There is a difference in changing your mind and making a product, and abandoning lore and precedence, and giving 1 race to 2 factions.

[Ielenia]

They are not moot points and I have already told you repeatedly why. You simply choose to ignore any facts that don't align with your opinion.

And Void Elves and Nighbourne are visually distinct.

They are moot. Simple as that, and I explained why. And void elves and nightborne being "visually distinct" is also a moot point because we have a game in where 90% of the armor graphics cover their entire body. Making one elf skin purple while the other light-skinned means zero when they still share the exact same silhouette and animations. You will not distinguish a void elf from a blood elf, or a night elf from a nightborne, before their health/name/outline colors clue you in as to which race they are.

Because that is a Blood Elf.

In one side of that rift are the blood elves. On the other side, are the high elves.

Wrong again. That is exactly what the pro-high elves are asking.

No, that's just what your strawman of the pro-high elf community is asking for. Seriously, you're playing dumb by now, if you really think void elves were "exactly" what the pro-high elf community has been asking for.

Wrong again. See above. They are distinct.

Not in any meaningful way. Skin color means absolute nada when 90% of the armor in the game covers 90% of your character's body. The only thing that really matters in terms of visual distinctiveness for "faction identity" is silhouettes, and those have been spread around already, thanks to nightborne and void elves.

The only person ignoring lore is you. The massive rift between the two groups. One group is Alliance, one is Horde. All other issues have dissolved and resolved with the Sunwell. Cultural differences are hardly enough to make a viable race, especially when any differences are minimal.

No, they haven't. The blood elves are still the more "reckless" elves, whereas the high elves are still the "cautious/conservative" elves.

Ok. This is a start. The blood elves used to drain mana from living beings and demons. That is no longer the case following the Sunwell. Problem solved.

No, it's not "solved". The issue remains because it shows that the blood elves differ heavily from the high elves as they'll seek reckless means of survival, to the point of abandoning all their principles.

Blood Elves never gave up the light. Some resorted to draining from a Naaru, but they remained Paladins and Priests.

They gave up on the Light. They decided that the Light had forsaken them for allowing such a massacre at their own homeland. They decided not only to stop serving the light, but also enslave the light. Remember that they were all too willing to enslave and torture a Naaru. There were still paladins and priests, but they were the slavers of the Light, not its servants.

As far as that goes, the Silver Covenant is viewed more Arcane than Light based, so that point is moot.

Ah... what? "More arcane based than Light based"? Where did that nonsense came from?

Wow Classic.

Thank you. You've proven my point.

That is in no way similar to the discussion at hand.

They're more than simply similar: they're the exact same, because you're saying that just because Blizzard is saying "no" now and have been saying "no" for a decade, that means it's "not happening", i.e. won't ever happen. And yet, until last Blizzcon, the exact same thing could be said about WoW Classic.

There is a difference in changing your mind and making a product, and abandoning lore and precedence, and giving 1 race to 2 factions.

Remember you're talking about a company that has done some massive retcons in the lore. The biggest that come to mind is the entire Onyxia quest line.

On top of that: there is no "ignoring lore and precedence", as explained earlier. For lore, high elves already exist, and are already part of the Alliance. All that is left to do is making them playable. As for "ignoring precedence", on the contrary: the void elf and nightborne races actually set the precedent that allows the introduction of high elves.

[Aldo Hawk]

@Neverafter You keep stating that adding HE would be against current lore, that HE are simply blue eyed Blood elves and that this is about making Blood elves neutral...

Since you are maintaining those assumptions and still trying to come here pretending to be some kind of judge or arbiter in a condescending manner i don't have anything else to add, please, get more on touch with what is being discussed since you are not demonstrating it.

You are not a wow developer and you cannot assume what they do or what they think solely based on what they have added or didn't added in the game because you think that means whatever you think it means. Surely you think that not any of them will look at your 'continuum' ever so you simply made it because you felt so. It's, at least, biased not only with your assumptions with what the developers have their minds on but also with what you think about the HE request.

[LawdArthas]

A question to the helfers, how would you introduce high elfs without taking away from the uniqueness of blood elfs? This is a genuine question, and I'm hoping for a genuine answer. Please don't use the "but Pandarens" as an answer. They were introduced as neutral. In the case of high/blood elves, we're discussing a topic that effectively makes the high elven race neutral. Which to me is unfair to the Horde.

Here is my take on how the high elves take away from blood elven identity:

1) Blood elves are the redefinition of what a high elf on Azeroth is. Their introduction in TBC was clear that the high elven story continued on through blood elves. Adding playable high elves to me blurs the definition of what "high elves" are. Most players associate blood elves as the high elves of WoW. Even lead WoW developers have acknowledged this. I saw a few pages back someone sharing a quote from Chris Metzen that blood elves are the high elves of WoW. So ultimately, although a small group of high elves are affiliated with the Alliance and call themselves the high elves, they aren't the legacy of high elven society.. the blood elves are. And it would be unfair to blur this definition by making high elves more focal by making them an AR.

2) Apart from political views (Horde or Alliance), what differences are there between the two groups? The OP on this thread and on the official forums seems to focus on a woodland elf thematic. Again, to me this detracts from blood elven identity, and to a degree night elven. The farstriders are a group of rangers predominantly belonging to the blood elves, and we know in game that there are references of the blood elven farstriders having a connection to nature and feeling at home in the forests and finding allies in the wilderness.

This is from the quest 'Seek the Farstriders': <name>, it is good you have come. Our list of allies grows thin, and even those who share our cause are not completely trusted. It is because of this that we, the rangers, turn to nature for aid. In the allies of the forest we find a deep bond that does not know deceit.

This sounds like a woodland elf to me. So woodland elves are already manifested via the blood elves, and if anything the woodland theme should be further portrayed through the blood elven farstriders, not the Alliance high elf rangers in highvale who are a significantly smaller group than the farstriders. The book Tides of Darkness also talks about the farstriders being intimately bound to the wildlands.

The only other identity we see from Alliance high elves is magi. But again, the blood elves already fill that fantasy so high elves would bring nothing new but double down on the elven ranger or elven magi theme. Also, the high elves of Dalaran share the exact same history as the Sunreavers. I see people focusing on how some high elves have been living in Dalaran for 2000 years, but so have the blood elven Sunreavers. So again, what distinction is there between the SC and the Sunreavers? Both are high elven groups who have lived in Dalaran for a long time, and have a heavy focus on Magic.

Some talk about high elf paladins. But again, the whole concept of elven paladins began with the blood knights, who are blood elves. So this is another feature unique to blood elves that high elves would detract from.

Blood elves and high elves are biologically the same, have the same thematics, share 99% of the same culture, history and lore (apart from the last decade or so, which is miniscule when compared to their longevity). So back to my opening question, how do you introduce high elves without blurring faction lines and detracting from the blood elves in so many ways?

[Ielenia]

1) Blood elves are the redefinition of what a high elf on Azeroth is. Their introduction in TBC was clear that the high elven story continued on through blood elves. Adding playable high elves to me blurs the definition of what "high elves" are. Most players associate blood elves as the high elves of WoW. Even lead WoW developers have acknowledged this. I saw a few pages back someone sharing a quote from Chris Metzen that blood elves are the high elves of WoW. So ultimately, although a small group of high elves are affiliated with the Alliance and call themselves the high elves, they aren't the legacy of high elven society.. the blood elves are. And it would be unfair to blur this definition by making high elves more focal by making them an AR.

You wrote a lot there, but you never explained how the addition of playable high elves to the Alliance would "blur the definition" of 'high elf'.

2) Apart from political views (Horde or Alliance), what differences are there between the two groups? The OP on this thread and on the official forums seems to focus on a woodland elf thematic. Again, to me this detracts from blood elven identity, and to a degree night elven. The farstriders are a group of rangers predominantly belonging to the blood elves, and we know in game that there are references of the blood elven farstriders having a connection to nature and feeling at home in the forests and finding allies in the wilderness.

There is their culture, or in the case of blood elves, their new culture. Blood elves will do anything to survive, to the point of draining mana from living beings, and enslaving a Naaru to forcibly enslave the power of the Light. That's something high elves would not do, for one.

The only other identity we see from Alliance high elves is magi. But again, the blood elves already fill that fantasy

Troll druids already fill the "troll druid" fantasy, so why can Zandalari be druids? Human mages already fill the "human mage" fantasy, so why can Kul'tirans be mages?

Some talk about high elf paladins. But again, the whole concept of elven paladins began with the blood knights, who are blood elves. So this is another feature unique to blood elves that high elves would detract from.

Huh? What you wrote that doesn't make sense. "Paladins" are not something "unique" to blood elves. Just because blood elves can be paladins doesn't mean that other elven races cannot be paladins. That's like saying that "human mages" are unique to humans, but we have Kul'tiran mages.

Even then, the "blood knights" and "high elf paladins" would have completely different lore, considering the blood knights were born out of the enslavement, torture and experimentation of a captured Naaru. I doubt high elf paladins (if playable high elves are allowed to be paladins) would follow the same lore.

So back to my opening question, how do you introduce high elves without blurring faction lines and detracting from the blood elves in so many ways?

Nothing would be "detracted" from the blood elves. Everything a blood elf is will remain unchanged. You would have a point about "detracting from blood elves" if high elves did not exist in the world. But they do exist. And are quite prominent considering they're called a race people claim is "near extinction".

Not a single piece of lore is being asked to be changed, other than the Alliance "officially recognizing" the high elves to make them a playable race.

[LawdArthas]

You wrote a lot there, but you never explained how the addition of playable high elves to the Alliance would "blur the definition" of 'high elf'.

So no genuine answer? Just a troll response.

Blood elves are the definition of the high elven fantasy in the Warcraft universe. Making alliance high elves playable would detract from the already playable Horde high elven group who are known as the blood elves. It would dull their uniqueness, it would blur the definition of what high elves are and what they've become. All this, simply because of a small group of elves who chose the Alliance. High elves are not a significant force, they are not a major society. They are a dwindling group, and shouldn't further impede on the definition of "high elves". Making them playable would suggest that they're either thriving or moving forward in the world of Azeroth, but we know from countless in and out of game references that this is not the case. They're assimilating into human culture, they're losing their identity. They're dwindling. They have no real culture or direction, and simply are a small group following their human allies. Why blur the high elven identity, which is blood elves, with a dwindling group? Create a blood elf and you'll see that they are the next chapter of the high elf story. The story has moved forward via blood elves, and I don't think it fair for this small group of Alliance high elves to blur that story.

There is their culture, or in the case of blood elves, their new culture. Blood elves will do anything to survive, to the point of draining mana from living beings, and enslaving a Naaru to forcibly enslave the power of the Light. That's something high elves would not do, for one.

Again, Alleria says hi.

To some, Alleria is the pinnacle of what it means to be a high elf. Yet she's dabbled in dangerous magics and she's absorbed a fallen Naaru. Does that resemble your description of Blood Elves to some degree? Yes. High elves are not as different from blood elves as you may like to believe.

[Aldo Hawk]

Some talk about high elf paladins. But again, the whole concept of elven paladins began with the blood knights, who are blood elves. So this is another feature unique to blood elves that high elves would detract from.

High elves (before the scourge invasion) had genuine belief on the light, until they felt betrayed by it and started enslaving a naaru and later on drawing their powers from the Sunwell. That is not the case for High elves since they still maintain their old ways.

A High elf Paladin is exactly the same kind of Paladin as human and dwarf ones. They didn't enslave a Naaru, they don't get their powers from the light-infused Sunwell, those were, and are the Blood Knights, High elves share the same culture about the light as humans and dwarves.

Simply put. Blood knights were formed -after- the scourge invasion. Before that, High elves believed in the light and those who separated/were separated from Silvermoon, rejects the horde and the ways of their old brethren, and still maintain the name High elf, are still Paladins and Priests who believe in the light.

Also, Chris Metzen referred to Blood elves as 'our' High elves making reference as to what a High elf is pertaining various fantasy worlds. And, after that, he explained what would be their own spin on them. And since they still added (and added non blood elf NPCs before) High elves as a separate people from the Blood elves... It cannot by any logic mean that Blood elves have replaced what a High elf is in the world of warcraft, since they still exist.

Blood elves still are Blood elves in all it's wholeness to this day while High elves have already appeared and that didn't damaged the Blood elves in any way, why do you think that making them playable would damage their identity? It's an existing group. That's why Pandaren are brought up, because they have -zero- (0) differences between them, while a High elf allied race would with 100% certainty by linear logic develop on those differences as any pre-existing race that became playable did.

I hope you felt satisfied by at least one of the explanations i displayed.

[Ielenia]

So no genuine answer? Just a troll response.

I would be careful when using that word. Especially how you disregard over half my post to simply say "you got no answer". Which, again, is false.

Blood elves are the definition of the high elven fantasy in the Warcraft universe. Making alliance high elves playable would detract from the already playable Horde high elven group who are known as the blood elves. It would dull their uniqueness, it would blur the definition of what high elves are and what they've become.

It would not. You would have a point if a group called "high elves" did not already exist in the game. But they do. And they existed since vanilla day one. High elves exist, so do they lore. They are a separate group from blood elves, and even have reasons to join the Alliance.

All this, simply because of a small group of elves who chose the Alliance.

A group, mind you, that is highly likely to be bigger than the group of blood elves that were kicked out of Silvermoon for dealing with the void.

They are a dwindling group, and shouldn't further impede on the definition of "high elves".

They are high elves. Blood elves are now blood elves. Anything the word "high elf" means now are the thalassian elves that decided to stay with the Alliance and refused to follow Kael'Thas' teachings to extract mana from living beings.

Making them playable would suggest that they're either thriving or moving forward in the world of Azeroth,

And that would be a bad thing... why, again?

but we know from countless in and out of game references that this is not the case.

In-game references? Please, show me some of those.

They're assimilating into human culture,

You do realize that, assuming that is true, you just gave further examples of the differentiation between blood elves and high elves, culturally-speaking?

They have no real culture or direction,

They have their culture, and direction can be given. They can be given a new purpose.

Why blur the high elven identity, which is blood elves, with a dwindling group?

There is no "blurring". High elves already exist, and have existed since forever. Nothing would be changed in terms of lore for the blood elves. Even better: every new story development would give the blood elves more uniqueness. Hell, they already have, being avid practitioners of blood/anima magic.

Create a blood elf and you'll see that they are the next chapter of the high elf story.

Not quite. They are a different chapter. Not exactly "next chapter". They're a branching path, not the next step. To say they're the "next chapter" implies there is no more potential development in the "previous chapter", which is false.

Again, Alleria says hi.

I don't recall Alleria ever "capturing and enslaving a naaru, torturing it to gain its power" or "destroying innocent living beings for the sake of their nourishment."

[FlubberPuddy]

The story has moved forward via blood elves, and I don't think it fair for this small group of Alliance high elves to blur that story.

This portion really doesn't make sense. A lot of what you say doesn't, but I wanted to focus on this in particular.

When the High Elf and Blood Elf split occurred, High Elves stopped being part of what the Blood Elf story moved toward. High Elves go onto having a different tangent. This doesn't do any "blurring" because everything the Blood Elves are doing - from a renewed Sunwell (not taking Light by force anymore), to utilizing Anima, to doing whatever it takes to survive - are all things specific to Blood Elves.

High Elves don't step on the toes of any of that. Unless you can show me that the High Elves in Alliance are utilizing the Blood Elf story beats, this "blurring" isn't occurring nor can occur. What does it even mean to "blur that story"? How does a playable High Elf blur that?

High Elves have a different culture and different direction than their Blood Elf brethren.

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The "high elven identity" bit is weird too. What is "high elven identity" even mean when we have developers saying "Blood Elves kinda are High Elves" and "Void Elves are another flavor of High Elves"? Both of these groups are also high elves so what is "high elven identity"?

It's like how there's 3 humans on the Alliance. What is the "human identity", is it Stormwindian, Kul Tiran, or Gilnean? Those are all humans, which one is the "human identity"?