Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Neverafter]

I don't think there has to be any cosmic force involved, High Elves are shown to not be as reliant on magic as their Blood Elf and Void Elf counterparts: The Silver Covenant is mainly depicted as Rangers, there's a group of "Highvale Elves" who have completely given up magic outright. If anything, High Elves give you the "vanilla elf" option to play separate from their Void based and Light based counterparts. Just as "Humans" are the vanilla human and then you can play either a fat human or a cursed human or a dead human as their counterparts.

Vanilla Human, Fat Human, Cursed Human and Dead Human are still differences. Blue Eyed Elf that shares the body of a Blood Elf is not. Dark Iron have tattoos and unique hairstyles that weren't present before. They make sense though. They summoned Ragnaros, have a close relationship with fire, why not have fireheards and hair.

This isn't the case with High Elves. Theres no Arcane/Light/Shadow/Fire/Frost any defining characteristic that would separate how a Blood Elf looks in lore to a High Elf. That is the reason for some outside force to be involved.

And Blizzard themselves believed this as well, which is why Alliance literally got "Blue Eyed Blood Elves" in the form of Void Elves, who have Blue Eyes and are former Blood Elves. The hope here is that all the artwork/discussion etc after the fact of Void Elf release is showing Blizzard "hey, you guys severely missed point. this is what we've been asking for."

Which is exactly why Blizzard will be very cautious with any addition they may implement with regards to High Elves.

It's been stated countless times the differences, you either refuse to acknowledge what's been said or haven't read what's been said. Take the time and read, it's not anyone's responsibility to continually have newcomers to the conversation be shown what's already been discussed to death.

I have followed this discussion. Very closely. Stop condescending and talking down to everyone simply because they disagree with you and point out the flaws in your reasoning.

Void Elves are far from "Blue Eyed Blood Elves". They were inundated with Void, you quest and find out their history, etc. Barring some outside cosmic force, you are still stuck with a Blood Elf model with blue eyes. Silver Covenant, Hunter's Lodge, wherever you want to pull them from, it is going to look and act like a Blood Elf.

[FlubberPuddy]

Vanilla Human, Fat Human, Cursed Human and Dead Human are still differences. Blue Eyed Elf that shares the body of a Blood Elf is not. Dark Iron have tattoos and unique hairstyles that weren't present before. They make sense though. They summoned Ragnaros, have a close relationship with fire, why not have fireheards and hair.

This isn't the case with High Elves. Theres no Arcane/Light/Shadow/Fire/Frost any defining characteristic that would separate how a Blood Elf looks in lore to a High Elf. That is the reason for some outside force to be involved.

You presented it with humans, "Vanilla human, Fat Human, Cursed Human, Dead Human". I mean, what is making the "Vanilla human" vanilla? I'd like to see an answer to this.

For the Thalassians it'd be "Vanilla Elf, Light Elf, Void Elf". See the High Elves don't have to be changed by some outside force because its their brethren that have been changed by an outside force already.

But if it's that sufficient, please look at the models that showcase a more athletic build for High Elves since they're not as reliant on magic compared to their brethren. The suggestions put forth for High Elves makes sense because they're not as city-dwelling nor as pompous as the Blood Elves. Just like how you said the customization given to Dark Irons make sense.

High Elves, having groups less reliant on magic, being more often depicted as Rangers (hell just look at Alleria - visually that's High Elf aesthetic smack dab in your face), and grouping around lodges and even the Silver Covenant pledge themselves to the Hunter Order Hall rather than the Mage Order Hall of Dalaran.

A WC2 aesthetic of the Elven Ranger is fitting and makes sense for High Elves. Just as there's two types of Arcane Elves now on the Horde, there can be two types of Nature Elves on the Alliance.

Which is exactly why Blizzard will be very cautious with any addition they may implement with regards to High Elves.

Yes they will be, which is why this conversation hasn't been decided by Blizzard any which way yet and why they're encouraging the discussion on the topic.

I have followed this discussion. Very closely. Stop condescending and talking down to everyone simply because they disagree with you and point out the flaws in your reasoning.

It's not condescending to state if you don't know the differences that's been shared by now then it's you not acknowledging them or haven't been reading them. Since you're stating you followed the discussion closely, it can only be your refusal to acknowledge what's been said.

This also makes you look silly for then stating "you guys haven't talked about any differences" as if you weren't following the conversation very closely.

Void Elves are far from "Blue Eyed Blood Elves". They were inundated with Void, you quest and find out their history, etc. Barring some outside cosmic force, you are still stuck with a Blood Elf model with blue eyes. Silver Covenant, Hunter's Lodge, wherever you want to pull them from, it is going to look and act like a Blood Elf.

Void Elves are very much "Blue Eyed Blood Elves" as Ion's statement of "if you want to play a light-skinned, blue eyed, majestic elf...sorry, the horde is waiting for you." If he's stating that it can be assumed Void Elves are as such also, considering they literally are previous Blood Elves and literally have Blue Eyes.

it is going to look and act like a Blood Elf.

This bit is already false given the High Elves as they are now, don't even have the same voice lines as Blood Elves. This is Blizzard's effort to help show the differences between the two groups.

Even Ion stated the Blood Elves and High Elves have different eye colors and different relationship to magic in regards to the Sunwell. A point he makes that a lot of people seem to ignore or hand-wave away.

[Aldo Hawk]

This is obviously the biggest problem of the request and why this has got too long to be discussed.

We want High Elves, not Light Elves, Thunder Elves, Fire Elves, Nature Elves, Coolmagic Elves, etc...

It's the Alliance Thalassian what is being requested and that's why most of the suggestions doesn't involve such drastic changes. Because if they end up doing... water elves or whatever it's better for them to not do nothing, since Void elves are already enough of an aspull as it gets.

Simple and plain Alliance alligned Thalassian elves, those who we already know, those that were already there, those that we were familiar with.

And that suggestion is open for changes except if it becomes something near or similar to Void Elves.

Of course this is controversial.

[AngerFork]

This is obviously the biggest problem of the request and why this has got too long to be discussed.

We want High Elves, not Light Elves, Thunder Elves, Fire Elves, Nature Elves, Coolmagic Elves, etc...

It's the Alliance Thalassian what is being requested and that's why most of the suggestions doesn't involve such drastic changes. Because if they end up doing... water elves or whatever it's better for them to not do nothing, since Void elves are already enough of an aspull as it gets.

Simple and plain Alliance alligned Thalassian elves, those who we already know, those that were already there, those that we were familiar with.

And that suggestion is open for changes except if it becomes something near or similar to Void Elves.

Of course this is controversial.

This then leads me to wonder, are you more interested in the race design/aesthetic, the storyline of the Alliance Thalassian, or something else entirely?

For instance, let's say Blizz came to you with two specific suggestions to get this race in the game? For the first one, Alliance races are playable on Horde and vice versa. In this, you get the straight up Blood Elf model with High Elf style eyes added. For the second one, a storyline is put in place where the High Elves join with the Void Elves, but keep largely their same aesthetic. Some things change (hair styles), skin tone stays largely the same, but the story of the High Elves is continued as part of the Void Elf storyline. Which do you prefer, or are both unacceptable? If the latter, why are both unacceptable?

[FlubberPuddy]

This then leads me to wonder, are you more interested in the race design/aesthetic, the storyline of the Alliance Thalassian, or something else entirely?

Both. It doesn't have to be one or the other. And your specific suggestions aren't the only ones Blizzard can come to High Elf fans with.

If it seems complex to understand what High Elf fans want just use the Wildhammer Dwarves.

Bronzebeards are playable, they're not Wildhammer Dwarves, their story isn't Wildhammer Dwarves, sharing fair skin is moot because racials, heritage armor, mounts are all in the context of Bronzebeard dwarves who live within mountains.

Dark Iron definitely don't fit this either, despite being another aspect of the 3 council of hammers.

People want to play that last portion of the council of hammers.

Same thing bringing it back to High Elves.

Blood Elves are playable, they're not High Elves, their story isn't High Elves, sharing fair skin is moot because of racials, heritage armor, mounts are all in the context these elves who held onto their city, utilized fel magic, and joined the Horde.

Void Elves definitely don't fit either, despite being another Thalassian elf. They're corrupt, they're former Blood Elves, their story isn't the High Elf story.

And before someone gets snarky and comments "but they all share High Elf history". No shit, so did all 3 dwarves, that doesn't mean their histories didn't diverge to where they're 3 separate groups now. I still expect to see it though, some people just can't help but be purposely inane.

[Aldo Hawk]

This then leads me to wonder, are you more interested in the race design/aesthetic, the storyline of the Alliance Thalassian, or something else entirely?

For instance, let's say Blizz came to you with two specific suggestions to get this race in the game? For the first one, Alliance races are playable on Horde and vice versa. In this, you get the straight up Blood Elf model with High Elf style eyes added. For the second one, a storyline is put in place where the High Elves join with the Void Elves, but keep largely their same aesthetic. Some things change (hair styles), skin tone stays largely the same, but the story of the High Elves is continued as part of the Void Elf storyline. Which do you prefer, or are both unacceptable? If the latter, why are both unacceptable?

You know that both aren't desiderable because you took the minimum amount of bothering to read about what is being requested, so yes, both of these cases aren't desiderable.

What i'm interested about is bringing to the players another unplayable alliance member to their character creation screen, as they did with Dark Iron Dwarves which was fantastic in this regard.

- - - Updated - - -

And before someone gets snarky and comments "but they all share High Elf history". No shit, so did all 3 dwarves, that doesn't mean their histories didn't diverge to where they're 3 separate groups now. I still expect to see it though, some people just can't help but be purposely inane.

Yeah well they are gonna be against it and make biased arguments, as it has to be of course.

However... Those biased arguments are easily dismantled with just a bit of imagination put on them.

One of the most common arguments is that they were separated by only (i don't remember well) 15 or 20 years.

Well, is that an impediment or something? Obviously not since there is something called story development which they do constantly and things happen even if they are not telling since most of wow lore is in some kind of standby state until it is retaken. 15/20 years are a lot of years of things happening and time is not a stagnant thing, years keeps passing

And if someone thinks that 15/20 years 'are nothing' for an elf... That's from an anthropological life expectancy view, 15 years are the same for everyone.

[AngerFork]

Both. It doesn't have to be one or the other. And your specific suggestions aren't the only ones Blizzard can come to High Elf fans with.

If it seems complex to understand what High Elf fans want just use the Wildhammer Dwarves.

Bronzebeards are playable, they're not Wildhammer Dwarves, their story isn't Wildhammer Dwarves, sharing fair skin is moot because racials, heritage armor, mounts are all in the context of Bronzebeard dwarves who live within mountains.

Dark Iron definitely don't fit this either, despite being another aspect of the 3 council of hammers.

People want to play that last portion of the council of hammers.

Same thing bringing it back to High Elves.

Blood Elves are playable, they're not High Elves, their story isn't High Elves, sharing fair skin is moot because of racials, heritage armor, mounts are all in the context these elves who held onto their city, utilized fel magic, and joined the Horde.

Void Elves definitely don't fit either, despite being another Thalassian elf. They're corrupt, they're former Blood Elves, their story isn't the High Elf story.

And before someone gets snarky and comments "but they all share High Elf history". No shit, so did all 3 dwarves, that doesn't mean their histories didn't diverge to where they're 3 separate groups now. I still expect to see it though, some people just can't help but be purposely inane.

Agreed that they aren't the only ones by a long shot Blizz can come up with. There are plenty of other ones, including just straight up making them an Allied Race. My question was less about finding the specific answer (I see flaws with both) and more about finding the underlying specific reason behind the desire. Is it more about the aesthetic look of the High Elves, more about wanting Veressa and the High Elves to have more of a story, more about the RP purposes, or something else? As straight up adding High Elves as a new Allied Race is unlikely without at least a UI & design change (which I frankly think should happen anyhow) to go with it, it's worth looking at the other options IMO to really get the idea of what this should be across. And as the post I was responding to stated it was open to changes unless it became something similar to Void Elves, it seems fitting to find out the base desires before fully making suggestions.

I suppose the best way to describe my second option using your Wildhammer example would be as follows. A questline is set up where perhaps Aerie Peak gets destroyed by N'Zoth. The player evacuates the Wildhammer to Ironforge, which is already open to them due to the Council of Three Hammers. From here, customization options are open with all of the Wildhammer tattoos and designs open to all Dwarves, so you effectively are playing as a Wildhammer Dwarf with story matching as to why they are there. Mag'har Orcs do this quite well with various skin tones representing different clans.

You know that both aren't desiderable because you took the minimum amount of bothering to read about what is being requested, so yes, both of these cases aren't desiderable.

What i'm interested about is bringing to the players another unplayable alliance member to their character creation screen, as they did with Dark Iron Dwarves which was fantastic in this regard.

If that's the case, then what was the "open to suggestion" part about? It read to me like you were open to suggestions about how Alliance Thalassian might best fit in as a playable race, which seemed to leave the window open to other ways to make them playable that wasn't just putting them in as a full fledged Allied Race. Hence my question, trying to find the base level of what you might be looking for to see if there was a way that didn't affect the other Allied Races already coming into the game (blocking out a spot for the Worgen/Undead Allied Race variant, making two same-faction Allied Races with highly similar body types, etc).

[Aldo Hawk]

If that's the case, then what was the "open to suggestion" part about? It read to me like you were open to suggestions about how Alliance Thalassian might best fit in as a playable race, which seemed to leave the window open to other ways to make them playable that wasn't just putting them in as a full fledged Allied Race. Hence my question, trying to find the base level of what you might be looking for to see if there was a way that didn't affect the other Allied Races already coming into the game (blocking out a spot for the Worgen/Undead Allied Race variant, making two same-faction Allied Races with highly similar body types, etc).

The problem with integrating similar groups into one single playable race is that you are basically making them the same thing.

This can be easily seen with the Mag'har AR, on which they simply took the Draenor orcs, made like a 30 year (i think) time lapse due to timey wimey thing with alternate universes and made them live under the same roof, creating a new society of orcs where their differences are only those of the clans they came from.

This cannot be with Void elves and High elves, since their differences are too big for that, and mixing both playable options in one would basically broke what both of them are.

If they do it like when you select Void elf you can turn it -completely- (racials, voices, classes, NPC and world interaction, heritage armor, racial mount, racial exclusives, etc...) into a High elf, i would accept it since it would simply be selecting one race and having some kind of a display between two.

The problem i see with it is that they could end up doing a halfway of it and could end up ruining both Void elves and High elves. And even if i don't like Void elves i do like this game so much even for a race that i don't like to become ruined.

It's also important to remember that they said future allied races don't have to come necessarily in pairs or be equally distributed to both factions, so one faction could end up with one or even two allied races more than the other.

And about the 'open to suggestions' part... I just want to see the Alliance Quel'dorei made playable. Anything that can be developed on them that doesn't drive out of the most basic concept of what they are is something i can mostly accept.

[FlubberPuddy]

Agreed that they aren't the only ones by a long shot Blizz can come up with. There are plenty of other ones, including just straight up making them an Allied Race. My question was less about finding the specific answer (I see flaws with both) and more about finding the underlying specific reason behind the desire. Is it more about the aesthetic look of the High Elves, more about wanting Veressa and the High Elves to have more of a story, more about the RP purposes, or something else? As straight up adding High Elves as a new Allied Race is unlikely without at least a UI & design change (which I frankly think should happen anyhow) to go with it, it's worth looking at the other options IMO to really get the idea of what this should be across. And as the post I was responding to stated it was open to changes unless it became something similar to Void Elves, it seems fitting to find out the base desires before fully making suggestions.

They haven't ruled out adding High Elves "as is", it was answered in the context of going with Void Elves. Obviously after releasing Void Elves they're not going to immediately or soon come out with another Elf. Just like we all know someone would have to be off their rocker to think we're going to get another dwarf, human, orc, draenei, troll, etc so soon.

Ion meant what he said, "no plans in the near term for High Elves as an Allied Race". And further expanded what "near term" went when met with FarstriderRaven from Helf Discord at Blizzcon 2018, "just because they're not in bfa doesn't mean they won't be in wow ever, "the door hasn't closed".

The reason I bring this up is because if people start trying to focus on suggestions with an assumption of anything less than playing the current High Elves in the Alliance or their legacy (through Half-elves, which is even more unlikely because Blizz stated there's not much lore on half-races) then the High Elf fans can run into another situation like the Void Elves.

You're trying to piece apart what's most important, but relegating it to being one thing and the purpose of this request is to hit all the marks:

- Loyal High Elves (like Vereesa, Silver Covenant, Highvale, Allerian Stronghold etc)
- Alliance aligned

Both are important. If you take off playable High Elves you get the already playable Void Elves on Alliance. If you take off the Alliance portion and Loyal High Elves portion you end up with the already playable Blood Elves on Horde.

There isn't much splicing to be done.

I suppose the best way to describe my second option using your Wildhammer example would be as follows. A questline is set up where perhaps Aerie Peak gets destroyed by N'Zoth. The player evacuates the Wildhammer to Ironforge, which is already open to them due to the Council of Three Hammers. From here, customization options are open with all of the Wildhammer tattoos and designs open to all Dwarves, so you effectively are playing as a Wildhammer Dwarf with story matching as to why they are there. Mag'har Orcs do this quite well with various skin tones representing different clans.

And this is what I meant in an earlier post, you're merely looking at the visuals, when those Wildhammer in your suggestion would be locked out of using their own racials, their own heritage armor, their own unique mount, and hub area.

I guarantee this wouldn't be satisfying to Wildhammer Fans. Mag'har Orcs don't "do this quite well" because they were designed from the get-go to encase multiple clans which is also reflected in their racials, armor, and mount as well. It's cohesive because it's an amalgam of orc tribes.

Shoe-horning in Wildhammer into Bronzebeards doesn't give the same effect.

[DeicideUH]

Continuing my theory on BfA's last patch and the void elves betraying the Alliance and trying to turn the high elves...

I wonder if Vereesa's Hearthstone card is hinting at future developments. Things like tortollans and blood elf golden eyes were first introduced in Hearthstone before being made canon.

I know her eyes are glowing with arcane power here, but pink and purple can look alike, and I wonder if this couldn't be what a "voided high elf" could be somewhat like. Also, Thori'dal is Halduron's weapon in WoW, so I wonder if she won't get it in a future storyline (maybe the Quel'thalas warfront or something).



On another note, void elf tabard depicts an icon that looks kinda like N'Zoth's iconography:



I can't shake the idea that they'll go Wrathgate on us.

[Obelisk Kai]

Continuing my theory on BfA's last patch and the void elves betraying the Alliance and trying to turn the high elves...

I wonder if Vereesa's Hearthstone card is hinting at future developments. Things like tortollans and blood elf golden eyes were first introduced in Hearthstone before being made canon.

I know her eyes are glowing with arcane power here, but pink and purple can look alike, and I wonder if this couldn't be what a "voided high elf" could be somewhat like. Also, Thori'dal is Halduron's weapon in WoW, so I wonder if she won't get it in a future storyline (maybe the Quel'thalas warfront or something).



On another note, void elf tabard depicts an icon that looks kinda like N'Zoth's iconography:



I can't shake the idea that they'll go Wrathgate on us.

I believe the reason you cannot shake the idea they will go full wrathgate on us is your personally expressed antipathy towards them.

You clearly want them to fail, you want them to betray you and the Alliance because that way you will vindicated, that Void Elves are not the replacement for Alliance High Elves they otherwise are so clearly intended to be.

Your theory is also overtly focused on the Elves because that is your own particular bugbear. Why should the Elves get this focus for the end of BFA? Why not something to do with the Lightforged Draenei and Hightmountain Tauren. Sure, their own plots are rooted in Legion but so are the plots of the Void Elves (and their Nightborne counterparts).

What you have described as 'your theory' is only your way of dealing with your unhappiness with Void Elves, as each part of your theory almost beat for beat deals with your long held grievances.

There will be no Quel'thalas warfront. The Warfront feature has essentially failed, I would not be surprised to learn that future planned warfronts were scrapped following the dreadful reception the feature received and the heroic iteration of Arathi Highlands being added is simply to fill the space that a new warfront would have occupied had the system actually worked. The idea that Blizzard is going to put the effort required to make Quel'thalas of all places a viable end game zone in service of a feature everyone hates is for the birds.

Regarding the hearthstone comments, who knows. Although I suspect Alleria's eyes are glowing pink/purple because she is casting arcane shot rather than anything permanent. However if they are seeding a pink/purple option that could be used for future Blood Elf customizations, that would be welcome.

The old god like flourish on the Void Elf is exactly that. It's an old god flourish. That's the entire point of their race, they deal with the powers of the Old Gods. It almost certainly means nothing beyond that.

[DeicideUH]

Your theory is also overtly focused on the Elves because that is your own particular bugbear. Why should the Elves get this focus for the end of BFA? Why not something to do with the Lightforged Draenei and Hightmountain Tauren. Sure, their own plots are rooted in Legion but so are the plots of the Void Elves (and their Nightborne counterparts).

Void elves, unlike all the other three cited races, were neither introduced nor fleshed out in Legion. They appeared for the first time in the patch that acted as a prelude to BfA, and they were recruited for the war against the Horde. Of the four "Legion" races, they were the only ones that had no role in Legion, and, unlike all races that came before or after them, they had no moment in which they were explored in any depth.

One of the reasons said for choosing allied races was their relevance to the current storyline. Everyone was saying void elves would be important when the void became important, and BfA is about the void as much as it is about faction war. If BfA ends without them having any particularly important role to it, then their introduction was pointless and their relevance is, well, void.

There will be no Quel'thalas warfront. The Warfront feature has essentially failed, I would not be surprised to learn that future planned warfronts were scrapped following the dreadful reception the feature received and the heroic iteration of Arathi Highlands being added is simply to fill the space that a new warfront would have occupied had the system actually worked. The idea that Blizzard is going to put the effort required to make Quel'thalas of all places a viable end game zone in service of a feature everyone hates is for the birds.

They already said there would be more warfronts. In plural. And that was in March, when 8.2 news were already coming out.

"There will be additional warfronts in Battle for Azeroth, and the rewards to the existing one will likely be tuned and changed. We’ll also see lore characters continue to show up in these encounters."

And even if there's no Quel'thalas warfront, it doesn't mean the story can't go there in a future chapter. Neither the War of Thorns nor the Battle of Lordaeron required warfronts to be told.

The old god like flourish on the Void Elf is exactly that. It's an old god flourish. That's the entire point of their race, they deal with the powers of the Old Gods. It almost certainly means nothing beyond that.

Yeah, because Blizzard never used such small details to foreshadow things...

"Why is it that every mainlander immediatly jumps to the conclusion that Kul Tiras is infested with Old Gods? Sure, we make giant tentacle statues and carve squid faces all over the place but... oh... yeah... I see!"

[FlubberPuddy]

Regarding the hearthstone comments, who knows. Although I suspect Alleria's eyes are glowing pink/purple because she is casting arcane shot rather than anything permanent. However if they are seeding a pink/purple option that could be used for future Blood Elf customizations, that would be welcome.

DeicideUH gave a reply to most of your points so I will focus on this one.

First, that's Vereesa Windrunner. She's really in your face with that Silver Covenant tabard and her aesthetic is very blue whereas Alleria's is pretty green (speaking armor wise).

2nd, I don't see how a High Elf of the Silver Covenant, actually the High Elf of the Silver Covenant, somehow translates into potential customization going to Blood Elves.

Did the Golden Eyes of the Blood Knight Matriarch Lady Liadrin translate into Golden Eyes for High Elves as well as Blood Elves, or did it only affect the Blood Elves?

So not sure where that inane line of this hearthstone card is previewing customization for Blood Elves, when it uses probably one of, if not the most, prominent Alliance High Elf.

Unless that's your attempt at ... y'know, then it's not very good.

[DeicideUH]

DeicideUH gave a reply to most of your points so I will focus on this one.

First, that's Vereesa Windrunner. She's really in your face with that Silver Covenant tabard and her aesthetic is very blue whereas Alleria's is pretty green (speaking armor wise).

2nd, I don't see how a High Elf of the Silver Covenant, actually the High Elf of the Silver Covenant, somehow translates into potential customization going to Blood Elves.

Did the Golden Eyes of the Blood Knight Matriarch Lady Liadrin translate into Golden Eyes for High Elves as well as Blood Elves, or did it only affect the Blood Elves?

So not sure where that inane line of this hearthstone card is previewing customization for Blood Elves, when it uses probably one of, if not the most, prominent Alliance High Elf.

Unless that's your attempt at ... y'know, then it's not very good.

If Hearthstone Vereesa previews anything, it's something related to Vereesa, not blood elves.

And, in regards to this maybe linking high and void elves, I'd like to paste here some things I wrote in posts in the official forums:

The problem with merging void and high elves together is twofold: one, you need a pretty good story to do so in a convincing way, or else people won’t buy it, and two, it means also merging void and high elf themes, which means the result will dilute one or both of them.

The more I think about my “void elves are traitorous and will turn the high elves unwillingly”, more I like it. The details may be off, but I think it’s more likely for Blizzard to try and merge the races and change void elves enough to make a better compromise than duplicate the thalassian model and theme in the Alliance.

I’ve since been exposing these ideas here and elsewhere just to see how people react to them, so I could know what potential details could be satisfying enough to reach a true compromise.

----

I think it depends a lot on how the story is told and how the high elf theme incorporates the void. I can think of ways of making it work, but I try to not delve into details because it probably will stray farther away from actual implementation than the general theory does.

But imagine that the high elves show even more resistance to the void than blood elves, because their trials during the dark times made their will stronger. Imagine we find it through a cinematic where, as she’s trapped in the void to be transformed, Vereesa confronts temptation and, through the high elf ethos, frees herself. She could be tempted by the Void in the form of Rhonin, for instance, but then she finally accepts his death and moves on. She emerges changed, but as the “Hearthstone Vereesa” rather than a normal void elf.

Then, as these voided high elves are added to the void elf ranks, we end up with two groups of ren’dorei: the traditional ones, eager to use and study the void, and the former high elves, wary of the void and avoiding to use it as much as possible.

[Aldo Hawk]

I think they need to have Paladins in order to have it right.

They have warriors, priests, and they believe in the holy light.

If they can adapt the options through Void elves i'll be OK with it.

But i'm also 100% sure that it would end in a halfway of some sort breaking one or both, so... depends. I would not keep pushing it.

[HeiAggra]

I think they need to have Paladins in order to have it right.

They have warriors, priests, and they believe in the holy light.

If they can adapt the options through Void elves i'll be OK with it.

But i'm also 100% sure that it would end in a halfway of some sort breaking one or both, so... depends. I would not keep pushing it.

Undead have Warriors and priests, can they be Paladins also?

[Obelisk Kai]

Undead have Warriors and priests, can they be Paladins also?

In fairness, yes, there is at least one example of an Undead Paladin so Undead Paladins can be a thing.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Sir_Zeliek

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Leonid_Barthalomew

I am unsure if Leonid is still a Paladin or if he merely has faith in the light as a leftover from his days alive.

While Undead Paladins do exist, their rarity and the fact players don't have the option to select them mean they are intended to stand out when they do occur, to be a freak occurrence due to the depth of the faith of that particular Undead in the light. It is important to note that almost every single Undead was raised to this status unwillingly, no more how light fearing they were. To retain their powers in the light, a light that has abandoned other unfortunates who were unwillingly corrupted (think of Nobundo losing his Paladin abilities when corrupted by the fel), means that these individuals possessed an almost unparalleled faith.

Void Elves in contrast never had that faith to begin with. Either they were researching the void with Umbric when transformed by the Nether Prince, or they sought out the Void Elves to 'learn to wield their powers' as Moorgard put it. No follower of the light would deign to learn to use the shadows.

Priests are not a good counter-argument, as it is quite clear that some races do not mesh with either the light or the shadow side of the Priest. Lightforged Draenei would be extremely unlikely to use the powers of the shadow, whereas Void Elves almost by definition would be extremely unlikely to use the light. Yet everyone accepts that those races need to be allowed to use those specs for game mechanics purposes, and this is a classic example of gameplay trumping lore.

Void Elf Paladins are not like Undead Paladins. The few Undead Paladins set themselves against the grain and exist primarily because they were Paladins while alive. Void Elf Paladins are an oxymoron, a race-class combination that contradicts the core theme of the race itself.

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Void elves, unlike all the other three cited races, were neither introduced nor fleshed out in Legion. They appeared for the first time in the patch that acted as a prelude to BfA, and they were recruited for the war against the Horde. Of the four "Legion" races, they were the only ones that had no role in Legion, and, unlike all races that came before or after them, they had no moment in which they were explored in any depth.

I believe Blizzard counted Alleria's story as the Void Elf story, as her arc in 7.3 was the tale of how the first Void Elf came to be. And Alleria most definitely had a role in Legion.

One of the reasons said for choosing allied races was their relevance to the current storyline. Everyone was saying void elves would be important when the void became important, and BfA is about the void as much as it is about faction war. If BfA ends without them having any particularly important role to it, then their introduction was pointless and their relevance is, well, void.

BFA is more about the Old Gods, who serve the void and use shadow magic. I presumed there would be less of a distinction than there has turned out to be, but in time we will confront the Void Lords and at that point, the Void Elves will have a role to play in the story.

They already said there would be more warfronts. In plural. And that was in March, when 8.2 news were already coming out.

"There will be additional warfronts in Battle for Azeroth, and the rewards to the existing one will likely be tuned and changed. We’ll also see lore characters continue to show up in these encounters."

And even if there's no Quel'thalas warfront, it doesn't mean the story can't go there in a future chapter. Neither the War of Thorns nor the Battle of Lordaeron required warfronts to be told.

Part of me hopes that is a misunderstanding on the part of the interviewer, which has been known to happen, as the last thing the game needs is a new warfront.
And yes, the storyline can be told through another mechanism other than warfronts, but that again presumes there is a story to tell. There seems to be a certain elf-centric chauvinism that only their story deserves attention and needs to be told. There seems to be a very heavy elf focus in 8.2.
8.3 has to wrap up both the current N'zoth storyline, the end of the faction war and Sylvanas's replacement as Warchief. If Quel'thalas is to feature anywhere, it would be in the end of the faction war storyline, but if such a thing were to happen it would be about the end of the faction war and not fixing the problems you seem to have with Void Elves.

Yeah, because Blizzard never used such small details to foreshadow things...

"Why is it that every mainlander immediatly jumps to the conclusion that Kul Tiras is infested with Old Gods? Sure, we make giant tentacle statues and carve squid faces all over the place but... oh... yeah... I see!"

Because this isn't foreshadowing. The Void Elves have a connection to the shadow and the void. So do the Old Gods.

[HeiAggra]

In fairness, yes, there is at least one example of an Undead Paladin so Undead Paladins can be a thing.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Sir_Zeliek

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Leonid_Barthalomew

I am unsure if Leonid is still a Paladin or if he merely has faith in the light as a leftover from his days alive.

While Undead Paladins do exist, their rarity and the fact players don't have the option to select them mean they are intended to stand out when they do occur, to be a freak occurrence due to the depth of the faith of that particular Undead in the light. It is important to note that almost every single Undead was raised to this status unwillingly, no more how light fearing they were. To retain their powers in the light, a light that has abandoned other unfortunates who were unwillingly corrupted (think of Nobundo losing his Paladin abilities when corrupted by the fel), means that these individuals possessed an almost unparalleled faith.

Void Elves in contrast never had that faith to begin with. Either they were researching the void with Umbric when transformed by the Nether Prince, or they sought out the Void Elves to 'learn to wield their powers' as Moorgard put it. No follower of the light would deign to learn to use the shadows.

Priests are not a good counter-argument, as it is quite clear that some races do not mesh with either the light or the shadow side of the Priest. Lightforged Draenei would be extremely unlikely to use the powers of the shadow, whereas Void Elves almost by definition would be extremely unlikely to use the light. Yet everyone accepts that those races need to be allowed to use those specs for game mechanics purposes, and this is a classic example of gameplay trumping lore.

Void Elf Paladins are not like Undead Paladins. The few Undead Paladins set themselves against the grain and exist primarily because they were Paladins while alive. Void Elf Paladins are an oxymoron, a race-class combination that contradicts the core theme of the race itself.

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I believe Blizzard counted Alleria's story as the Void Elf story, as her arc in 7.3 was the tale of how the first Void Elf came to be. And Alleria most definitely had a role in Legion.

BFA is more about the Old Gods, who serve the void and use shadow magic. I presumed there would be less of a distinction than there has turned out to be, but in time we will confront the Void Lords and at that point, the Void Elves will have a role to play in the story.

Part of me hopes that is a misunderstanding on the part of the interviewer, which has been known to happen, as the last thing the game needs is a new warfront.
And yes, the storyline can be told through another mechanism other than warfronts, but that again presumes there is a story to tell. There seems to be a certain elf-centric chauvinism that only their story deserves attention and needs to be told. There seems to be a very heavy elf focus in 8.2.
8.3 has to wrap up both the current N'zoth storyline, the end of the faction war and Sylvanas's replacement as Warchief. If Quel'thalas is to feature anywhere, it would be in the end of the faction war storyline, but if such a thing were to happen it would be about the end of the faction war and not fixing the problems you seem to have with Void Elves.

Because this isn't foreshadowing. The Void Elves have a connection to the shadow and the void. So do the Old Gods.

Kai i was just being ironic
I don't get all this Helves bonner, they are a thing, they are ingame and they are in the Horde.

[Obelisk Kai]

DeicideUH gave a reply to most of your points so I will focus on this one.

First, that's Vereesa Windrunner. She's really in your face with that Silver Covenant tabard and her aesthetic is very blue whereas Alleria's is pretty green (speaking armor wise).

2nd, I don't see how a High Elf of the Silver Covenant, actually the High Elf of the Silver Covenant, somehow translates into potential customization going to Blood Elves.

Did the Golden Eyes of the Blood Knight Matriarch Lady Liadrin translate into Golden Eyes for High Elves as well as Blood Elves, or did it only affect the Blood Elves?

So not sure where that inane line of this hearthstone card is previewing customization for Blood Elves, when it uses probably one of, if not the most, prominent Alliance High Elf.

Unless that's your attempt at ... y'know, then it's not very good.

Fair enough, it is Veressa. Funny how I am already sub-consciously seeing Alleria as the face of the Alliance thalassian elves and that Veressa is fading out. Working as intended then.

As previously established, thalassian elven eye colour is mutable and Veressa is biologically identical to every other thalassian elf who isn't a Void Elf (who are now biologically distinct). If she can manifest purple/pink eyes due to casting Arcane shot, then so should every thalassian elf. And yes, any Alliance High Elf with a sufficient faith in the light should be able to manifest golden eyes as they share the same connection to the Sunwell Blood Elf Paladins do.

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Kai i was just being ironic
I don't get all this Helves bonner, they are a thing, they are ingame and they are in the Horde.

Whilst I agree with that, it is still important to contextualise why Undead Paladins are possible but Void Elf Paladins are a contradiction, else we would end up with 'Undead can be Paladins, why can't Void Elves?'

If Alliance players are so eager for an Elven Paladin option, they would be advised to press for a Night Elf Paladin option, something we have a precedent for and which would be pretty cool.

[elbleuet]

Fair enough, it is Veressa. Funny how I am already sub-consciously seeing Alleria as the face of the Alliance thalassian elves and that Veressa is fading out. Working as intended then.

.

Lmao

Since her introduction, Vereesa has been more relevant to the story IG and in the books than Halduron/Liadrin/Rommath combined.

Btw when Vereesa was fighting the Legion on Argus, what was Lor'Themar doing ? Doing party and Taking care of his hairs in Silvermoon, as he does since 2007.

I know you hate her just because she's a high elf, but please