Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[DeicideUH]

Continuing my theory on BfA's last patch and the void elves betraying the Alliance and trying to turn the high elves...

I wonder if Vereesa's Hearthstone card is hinting at future developments. Things like tortollans and blood elf golden eyes were first introduced in Hearthstone before being made canon.

I know her eyes are glowing with arcane power here, but pink and purple can look alike, and I wonder if this couldn't be what a "voided high elf" could be somewhat like. Also, Thori'dal is Halduron's weapon in WoW, so I wonder if she won't get it in a future storyline (maybe the Quel'thalas warfront or something).



On another note, void elf tabard depicts an icon that looks kinda like N'Zoth's iconography:



I can't shake the idea that they'll go Wrathgate on us.

[Obelisk Kai]

Continuing my theory on BfA's last patch and the void elves betraying the Alliance and trying to turn the high elves...

I wonder if Vereesa's Hearthstone card is hinting at future developments. Things like tortollans and blood elf golden eyes were first introduced in Hearthstone before being made canon.

I know her eyes are glowing with arcane power here, but pink and purple can look alike, and I wonder if this couldn't be what a "voided high elf" could be somewhat like. Also, Thori'dal is Halduron's weapon in WoW, so I wonder if she won't get it in a future storyline (maybe the Quel'thalas warfront or something).



On another note, void elf tabard depicts an icon that looks kinda like N'Zoth's iconography:



I can't shake the idea that they'll go Wrathgate on us.

I believe the reason you cannot shake the idea they will go full wrathgate on us is your personally expressed antipathy towards them.

You clearly want them to fail, you want them to betray you and the Alliance because that way you will vindicated, that Void Elves are not the replacement for Alliance High Elves they otherwise are so clearly intended to be.

Your theory is also overtly focused on the Elves because that is your own particular bugbear. Why should the Elves get this focus for the end of BFA? Why not something to do with the Lightforged Draenei and Hightmountain Tauren. Sure, their own plots are rooted in Legion but so are the plots of the Void Elves (and their Nightborne counterparts).

What you have described as 'your theory' is only your way of dealing with your unhappiness with Void Elves, as each part of your theory almost beat for beat deals with your long held grievances.

There will be no Quel'thalas warfront. The Warfront feature has essentially failed, I would not be surprised to learn that future planned warfronts were scrapped following the dreadful reception the feature received and the heroic iteration of Arathi Highlands being added is simply to fill the space that a new warfront would have occupied had the system actually worked. The idea that Blizzard is going to put the effort required to make Quel'thalas of all places a viable end game zone in service of a feature everyone hates is for the birds.

Regarding the hearthstone comments, who knows. Although I suspect Alleria's eyes are glowing pink/purple because she is casting arcane shot rather than anything permanent. However if they are seeding a pink/purple option that could be used for future Blood Elf customizations, that would be welcome.

The old god like flourish on the Void Elf is exactly that. It's an old god flourish. That's the entire point of their race, they deal with the powers of the Old Gods. It almost certainly means nothing beyond that.

[DeicideUH]

Your theory is also overtly focused on the Elves because that is your own particular bugbear. Why should the Elves get this focus for the end of BFA? Why not something to do with the Lightforged Draenei and Hightmountain Tauren. Sure, their own plots are rooted in Legion but so are the plots of the Void Elves (and their Nightborne counterparts).

Void elves, unlike all the other three cited races, were neither introduced nor fleshed out in Legion. They appeared for the first time in the patch that acted as a prelude to BfA, and they were recruited for the war against the Horde. Of the four "Legion" races, they were the only ones that had no role in Legion, and, unlike all races that came before or after them, they had no moment in which they were explored in any depth.

One of the reasons said for choosing allied races was their relevance to the current storyline. Everyone was saying void elves would be important when the void became important, and BfA is about the void as much as it is about faction war. If BfA ends without them having any particularly important role to it, then their introduction was pointless and their relevance is, well, void.

There will be no Quel'thalas warfront. The Warfront feature has essentially failed, I would not be surprised to learn that future planned warfronts were scrapped following the dreadful reception the feature received and the heroic iteration of Arathi Highlands being added is simply to fill the space that a new warfront would have occupied had the system actually worked. The idea that Blizzard is going to put the effort required to make Quel'thalas of all places a viable end game zone in service of a feature everyone hates is for the birds.

They already said there would be more warfronts. In plural. And that was in March, when 8.2 news were already coming out.

"There will be additional warfronts in Battle for Azeroth, and the rewards to the existing one will likely be tuned and changed. We’ll also see lore characters continue to show up in these encounters."

And even if there's no Quel'thalas warfront, it doesn't mean the story can't go there in a future chapter. Neither the War of Thorns nor the Battle of Lordaeron required warfronts to be told.

The old god like flourish on the Void Elf is exactly that. It's an old god flourish. That's the entire point of their race, they deal with the powers of the Old Gods. It almost certainly means nothing beyond that.

Yeah, because Blizzard never used such small details to foreshadow things...

"Why is it that every mainlander immediatly jumps to the conclusion that Kul Tiras is infested with Old Gods? Sure, we make giant tentacle statues and carve squid faces all over the place but... oh... yeah... I see!"

[FlubberPuddy]

Regarding the hearthstone comments, who knows. Although I suspect Alleria's eyes are glowing pink/purple because she is casting arcane shot rather than anything permanent. However if they are seeding a pink/purple option that could be used for future Blood Elf customizations, that would be welcome.

DeicideUH gave a reply to most of your points so I will focus on this one.

First, that's Vereesa Windrunner. She's really in your face with that Silver Covenant tabard and her aesthetic is very blue whereas Alleria's is pretty green (speaking armor wise).

2nd, I don't see how a High Elf of the Silver Covenant, actually the High Elf of the Silver Covenant, somehow translates into potential customization going to Blood Elves.

Did the Golden Eyes of the Blood Knight Matriarch Lady Liadrin translate into Golden Eyes for High Elves as well as Blood Elves, or did it only affect the Blood Elves?

So not sure where that inane line of this hearthstone card is previewing customization for Blood Elves, when it uses probably one of, if not the most, prominent Alliance High Elf.

Unless that's your attempt at ... y'know, then it's not very good.

[DeicideUH]

DeicideUH gave a reply to most of your points so I will focus on this one.

First, that's Vereesa Windrunner. She's really in your face with that Silver Covenant tabard and her aesthetic is very blue whereas Alleria's is pretty green (speaking armor wise).

2nd, I don't see how a High Elf of the Silver Covenant, actually the High Elf of the Silver Covenant, somehow translates into potential customization going to Blood Elves.

Did the Golden Eyes of the Blood Knight Matriarch Lady Liadrin translate into Golden Eyes for High Elves as well as Blood Elves, or did it only affect the Blood Elves?

So not sure where that inane line of this hearthstone card is previewing customization for Blood Elves, when it uses probably one of, if not the most, prominent Alliance High Elf.

Unless that's your attempt at ... y'know, then it's not very good.

If Hearthstone Vereesa previews anything, it's something related to Vereesa, not blood elves.

And, in regards to this maybe linking high and void elves, I'd like to paste here some things I wrote in posts in the official forums:

The problem with merging void and high elves together is twofold: one, you need a pretty good story to do so in a convincing way, or else people won’t buy it, and two, it means also merging void and high elf themes, which means the result will dilute one or both of them.

The more I think about my “void elves are traitorous and will turn the high elves unwillingly”, more I like it. The details may be off, but I think it’s more likely for Blizzard to try and merge the races and change void elves enough to make a better compromise than duplicate the thalassian model and theme in the Alliance.

I’ve since been exposing these ideas here and elsewhere just to see how people react to them, so I could know what potential details could be satisfying enough to reach a true compromise.

----

I think it depends a lot on how the story is told and how the high elf theme incorporates the void. I can think of ways of making it work, but I try to not delve into details because it probably will stray farther away from actual implementation than the general theory does.

But imagine that the high elves show even more resistance to the void than blood elves, because their trials during the dark times made their will stronger. Imagine we find it through a cinematic where, as she’s trapped in the void to be transformed, Vereesa confronts temptation and, through the high elf ethos, frees herself. She could be tempted by the Void in the form of Rhonin, for instance, but then she finally accepts his death and moves on. She emerges changed, but as the “Hearthstone Vereesa” rather than a normal void elf.

Then, as these voided high elves are added to the void elf ranks, we end up with two groups of ren’dorei: the traditional ones, eager to use and study the void, and the former high elves, wary of the void and avoiding to use it as much as possible.

[Aldo Hawk]

I think they need to have Paladins in order to have it right.

They have warriors, priests, and they believe in the holy light.

If they can adapt the options through Void elves i'll be OK with it.

But i'm also 100% sure that it would end in a halfway of some sort breaking one or both, so... depends. I would not keep pushing it.

[HeiAggra]

I think they need to have Paladins in order to have it right.

They have warriors, priests, and they believe in the holy light.

If they can adapt the options through Void elves i'll be OK with it.

But i'm also 100% sure that it would end in a halfway of some sort breaking one or both, so... depends. I would not keep pushing it.

Undead have Warriors and priests, can they be Paladins also?

[Obelisk Kai]

Undead have Warriors and priests, can they be Paladins also?

In fairness, yes, there is at least one example of an Undead Paladin so Undead Paladins can be a thing.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Sir_Zeliek

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Leonid_Barthalomew

I am unsure if Leonid is still a Paladin or if he merely has faith in the light as a leftover from his days alive.

While Undead Paladins do exist, their rarity and the fact players don't have the option to select them mean they are intended to stand out when they do occur, to be a freak occurrence due to the depth of the faith of that particular Undead in the light. It is important to note that almost every single Undead was raised to this status unwillingly, no more how light fearing they were. To retain their powers in the light, a light that has abandoned other unfortunates who were unwillingly corrupted (think of Nobundo losing his Paladin abilities when corrupted by the fel), means that these individuals possessed an almost unparalleled faith.

Void Elves in contrast never had that faith to begin with. Either they were researching the void with Umbric when transformed by the Nether Prince, or they sought out the Void Elves to 'learn to wield their powers' as Moorgard put it. No follower of the light would deign to learn to use the shadows.

Priests are not a good counter-argument, as it is quite clear that some races do not mesh with either the light or the shadow side of the Priest. Lightforged Draenei would be extremely unlikely to use the powers of the shadow, whereas Void Elves almost by definition would be extremely unlikely to use the light. Yet everyone accepts that those races need to be allowed to use those specs for game mechanics purposes, and this is a classic example of gameplay trumping lore.

Void Elf Paladins are not like Undead Paladins. The few Undead Paladins set themselves against the grain and exist primarily because they were Paladins while alive. Void Elf Paladins are an oxymoron, a race-class combination that contradicts the core theme of the race itself.

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Void elves, unlike all the other three cited races, were neither introduced nor fleshed out in Legion. They appeared for the first time in the patch that acted as a prelude to BfA, and they were recruited for the war against the Horde. Of the four "Legion" races, they were the only ones that had no role in Legion, and, unlike all races that came before or after them, they had no moment in which they were explored in any depth.

I believe Blizzard counted Alleria's story as the Void Elf story, as her arc in 7.3 was the tale of how the first Void Elf came to be. And Alleria most definitely had a role in Legion.

One of the reasons said for choosing allied races was their relevance to the current storyline. Everyone was saying void elves would be important when the void became important, and BfA is about the void as much as it is about faction war. If BfA ends without them having any particularly important role to it, then their introduction was pointless and their relevance is, well, void.

BFA is more about the Old Gods, who serve the void and use shadow magic. I presumed there would be less of a distinction than there has turned out to be, but in time we will confront the Void Lords and at that point, the Void Elves will have a role to play in the story.

They already said there would be more warfronts. In plural. And that was in March, when 8.2 news were already coming out.

"There will be additional warfronts in Battle for Azeroth, and the rewards to the existing one will likely be tuned and changed. We’ll also see lore characters continue to show up in these encounters."

And even if there's no Quel'thalas warfront, it doesn't mean the story can't go there in a future chapter. Neither the War of Thorns nor the Battle of Lordaeron required warfronts to be told.

Part of me hopes that is a misunderstanding on the part of the interviewer, which has been known to happen, as the last thing the game needs is a new warfront.
And yes, the storyline can be told through another mechanism other than warfronts, but that again presumes there is a story to tell. There seems to be a certain elf-centric chauvinism that only their story deserves attention and needs to be told. There seems to be a very heavy elf focus in 8.2.
8.3 has to wrap up both the current N'zoth storyline, the end of the faction war and Sylvanas's replacement as Warchief. If Quel'thalas is to feature anywhere, it would be in the end of the faction war storyline, but if such a thing were to happen it would be about the end of the faction war and not fixing the problems you seem to have with Void Elves.

Yeah, because Blizzard never used such small details to foreshadow things...

"Why is it that every mainlander immediatly jumps to the conclusion that Kul Tiras is infested with Old Gods? Sure, we make giant tentacle statues and carve squid faces all over the place but... oh... yeah... I see!"

Because this isn't foreshadowing. The Void Elves have a connection to the shadow and the void. So do the Old Gods.

[HeiAggra]

In fairness, yes, there is at least one example of an Undead Paladin so Undead Paladins can be a thing.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Sir_Zeliek

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Leonid_Barthalomew

I am unsure if Leonid is still a Paladin or if he merely has faith in the light as a leftover from his days alive.

While Undead Paladins do exist, their rarity and the fact players don't have the option to select them mean they are intended to stand out when they do occur, to be a freak occurrence due to the depth of the faith of that particular Undead in the light. It is important to note that almost every single Undead was raised to this status unwillingly, no more how light fearing they were. To retain their powers in the light, a light that has abandoned other unfortunates who were unwillingly corrupted (think of Nobundo losing his Paladin abilities when corrupted by the fel), means that these individuals possessed an almost unparalleled faith.

Void Elves in contrast never had that faith to begin with. Either they were researching the void with Umbric when transformed by the Nether Prince, or they sought out the Void Elves to 'learn to wield their powers' as Moorgard put it. No follower of the light would deign to learn to use the shadows.

Priests are not a good counter-argument, as it is quite clear that some races do not mesh with either the light or the shadow side of the Priest. Lightforged Draenei would be extremely unlikely to use the powers of the shadow, whereas Void Elves almost by definition would be extremely unlikely to use the light. Yet everyone accepts that those races need to be allowed to use those specs for game mechanics purposes, and this is a classic example of gameplay trumping lore.

Void Elf Paladins are not like Undead Paladins. The few Undead Paladins set themselves against the grain and exist primarily because they were Paladins while alive. Void Elf Paladins are an oxymoron, a race-class combination that contradicts the core theme of the race itself.

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I believe Blizzard counted Alleria's story as the Void Elf story, as her arc in 7.3 was the tale of how the first Void Elf came to be. And Alleria most definitely had a role in Legion.

BFA is more about the Old Gods, who serve the void and use shadow magic. I presumed there would be less of a distinction than there has turned out to be, but in time we will confront the Void Lords and at that point, the Void Elves will have a role to play in the story.

Part of me hopes that is a misunderstanding on the part of the interviewer, which has been known to happen, as the last thing the game needs is a new warfront.
And yes, the storyline can be told through another mechanism other than warfronts, but that again presumes there is a story to tell. There seems to be a certain elf-centric chauvinism that only their story deserves attention and needs to be told. There seems to be a very heavy elf focus in 8.2.
8.3 has to wrap up both the current N'zoth storyline, the end of the faction war and Sylvanas's replacement as Warchief. If Quel'thalas is to feature anywhere, it would be in the end of the faction war storyline, but if such a thing were to happen it would be about the end of the faction war and not fixing the problems you seem to have with Void Elves.

Because this isn't foreshadowing. The Void Elves have a connection to the shadow and the void. So do the Old Gods.

Kai i was just being ironic
I don't get all this Helves bonner, they are a thing, they are ingame and they are in the Horde.

[Obelisk Kai]

DeicideUH gave a reply to most of your points so I will focus on this one.

First, that's Vereesa Windrunner. She's really in your face with that Silver Covenant tabard and her aesthetic is very blue whereas Alleria's is pretty green (speaking armor wise).

2nd, I don't see how a High Elf of the Silver Covenant, actually the High Elf of the Silver Covenant, somehow translates into potential customization going to Blood Elves.

Did the Golden Eyes of the Blood Knight Matriarch Lady Liadrin translate into Golden Eyes for High Elves as well as Blood Elves, or did it only affect the Blood Elves?

So not sure where that inane line of this hearthstone card is previewing customization for Blood Elves, when it uses probably one of, if not the most, prominent Alliance High Elf.

Unless that's your attempt at ... y'know, then it's not very good.

Fair enough, it is Veressa. Funny how I am already sub-consciously seeing Alleria as the face of the Alliance thalassian elves and that Veressa is fading out. Working as intended then.

As previously established, thalassian elven eye colour is mutable and Veressa is biologically identical to every other thalassian elf who isn't a Void Elf (who are now biologically distinct). If she can manifest purple/pink eyes due to casting Arcane shot, then so should every thalassian elf. And yes, any Alliance High Elf with a sufficient faith in the light should be able to manifest golden eyes as they share the same connection to the Sunwell Blood Elf Paladins do.

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Kai i was just being ironic
I don't get all this Helves bonner, they are a thing, they are ingame and they are in the Horde.

Whilst I agree with that, it is still important to contextualise why Undead Paladins are possible but Void Elf Paladins are a contradiction, else we would end up with 'Undead can be Paladins, why can't Void Elves?'

If Alliance players are so eager for an Elven Paladin option, they would be advised to press for a Night Elf Paladin option, something we have a precedent for and which would be pretty cool.

[elbleuet]

Fair enough, it is Veressa. Funny how I am already sub-consciously seeing Alleria as the face of the Alliance thalassian elves and that Veressa is fading out. Working as intended then.

.

Lmao

Since her introduction, Vereesa has been more relevant to the story IG and in the books than Halduron/Liadrin/Rommath combined.

Btw when Vereesa was fighting the Legion on Argus, what was Lor'Themar doing ? Doing party and Taking care of his hairs in Silvermoon, as he does since 2007.

I know you hate her just because she's a high elf, but please

[HeiAggra]

I know you hate her just because she's a high elf, but please

True she is, like all the elves in silvermoon are

[elbleuet]

True she is, like all the elves in silvermoon are

Sorry, if you want to fight alongside High elves, the Alliance is waiting for you.

Blood elves are fel corrupted elves. High elves are untouched thalassian elves.

But you already knew it

[HeiAggra]

Sorry, if you want to fight alongside High elves, the Alliance is waiting for you.

Blood elves are fel corrupted elves. High elves are untouched thalassian elves.

But you already knew it

I do know what High Elves are, they are on the race page in the WOW official webpage, you should check it.
If you like i can leave the link here so you can clarify your doubts.

[Obelisk Kai]

Sorry, if you want to fight alongside High elves, the Alliance is waiting for you.

Blood elves are fel corrupted elves. High elves are untouched thalassian elves.

But you already knew it

Blizzard has said if you want to play a high elf, the Horde is waiting for you. Attempting to invert those words in favour of the Alliance fails because you have to say 'alongside' not 'as'. And as Blood Elves are High Elves, if you want to fight alongside High Elves, simply pick any other Horde race. You will find yourself fighting alongside high elves every single day, rather than getting excited at the addition of a single Alliance high elf np every two or three patches.

Blood Elves are not fel corrupted elves and indeed never were, a fel corrupted elf is known as a Felblood Elf. Blood Elves were fel tainted, there is a difference of degree. As the Sunwell is a purifying force for all thalassian elves and several elves are now manifesting golden eyes this signifies the removal of the very, very light fel taint some Blood Elves possess. In the end it is likely all thalassian elves will manifest golden eyes (or possibly blue, purple or pink given that the Sunwell is also Arcane), however in the name of player choice this will occur beyond the timeframe of WoW. As Alliance High Elves are subject to that same Sunwell, they are subject to the exact same changes Blood Elves are undergoing.

The Sunwell sustains all thalassian elves except the Void Elves and does not discriminate on the grounds of political choice.

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Lmao

Since her introduction, Vereesa has been more relevant to the story IG and in the books than Halduron/Liadrin/Rommath combined.

Btw when Vereesa was fighting the Legion on Argus, what was Lor'Themar doing ? Doing party and Taking care of his hairs in Silvermoon, as he does since 2007.

I know you hate her just because she's a high elf, but please

Veressa was fulfilling her primary function, being a supporting character to someone else's arc.

In the books it was Rhonin, with the exception of War Crimes where it was Sylvanas.

In MOP it was Jaina.

In Legion it was Alleria.

And Alleria already has more heft within the Alliance than Veressa ever did, given how Alleria is a racial leader with a seat at the top table. Just as the Void Elves have supplanted Alliance High Elves as the thalassians of the Alliance, so has the far more interesting and developed Alleria supplanted her little sister.

But who knows, maybe someone in future will need a supporting character to talk to, at which point Veressa will surely be used again.

P.S. For the record, I don't hate Veressa. I don't really feel anything about her at all. I object to the pro High Elf community trying to pretend she is far more than what she is though, simply because she is the sole Alliance High Elf of any note left.

[elbleuet]

I do know what High Elves are, they are on the race page in the WOW official webpage, you should check it.
If you like i can leave the link here so you can clarify your doubts.

Yea gimme that link please

And Alleria already has more heft within the Alliance than Veressa ever did, given how Alleria is a racial leader with a seat at the top table. Just as the Void Elves have supplanted Alliance High Elves as the thalassians of the Alliance, so has the far more interesting and developed Alleria supplanted her little sister.

There's no "seat at the top table", only influencial leaders.
Vereesa has been more involved in Alliance affairs than Tyrande, Malfurion or Asia were for example.

She defended Theramore, the Ghostland, joined the Night elves in Suramar, was doing some bad job in Dalaran, and hunted down some demons in Argus.
What did Lor'Thewho do?

Not bad for a racial leader of a non playable race.

Even if Void elves are far more showed than high elves - and that's a really good thing if you ask me since Void elves are what blood elves used to be instead of the boring light elves they are now - high elves will always remain one of the 2 thalassian groups of the Alliance.

And no I'm sorry Obelisk Kai, but blood elves are former High elves and they identify themselves as such. Sorry sorry

[Obelisk Kai]

snip

I have to ask, why do you go to the bother of removing the quote text which sends me a notification that you have replied?

Is it an attempt to get the last word?

If you don't want to debate, simply don't respond to my posts.

[Aldo Hawk]

Undead have Warriors and priests, can they be Paladins also?

'Irony'?

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Leonid_Barthalomew WAS a Paladin. And he considers his undeath as an illness to cure. He still believes in the light but cannot wield it's powers due to his new state.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Sir_Zeliek The ONLY undead paladin who -suffered- in the use of the light. He would have killed himself over time if he didn't ended raided.

Undead priests use shadow magic, holy is there for -gameplay- reasons as draenei have shadow.

Using that phrase as some kind of pointing to 'irony' is ironic in itself... it's so clueless that i can't believe you tried to diminish what i said by that.

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I don't get all this Helves bonner, they are a thing, they are ingame and they are in the Horde.

They are a thing, they are in game, and they are not horde.

This is such low quality bait...

[Ferg]

The fact that this thread is 558 pages long is a testament to just how much the WoW community loves to argue with each other over fairly unimportant stuff.

[Ielenia]

I believe Blizzard counted Alleria's story as the Void Elf story, as her arc in 7.3 was the tale of how the first Void Elf came to be. And Alleria most definitely had a role in Legion.

It doesn't count. For a few reasons. First, because none of the void elves existed before the BfA pre-patch. Alleria was a "lone wolf" of sorts. Second, because the void elves' inception had nothing to do with Alleria. The two arrived at (roughly) the same 'status' through different, unrelated means.

She wasn't the one who brought the means of "void-i-fication" to Azeroth. She did not convince the blood elves to become void elves. It was merely chance that brought them together.

That's like saying Teron Gorefiend counts as the player Death Knight's lore... when we know they're only related by name.

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I don't get all this Helves bonner, they are a thing, they are ingame and they are in the Horde.

They're not. Blood elves are in the Horde, and playable. High elves are in the Alliance, and not playable.