Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[matrix123mko]

Jaina isnt going anywhere, neither is Sylvanas who deserves to die, unfortunately.

From Horde perspective Jaina and Tyrande deserve to die.

The only reason the Horde has any city that isnt made of mud huts and sticks are the ones stolen from the Alliance. Dalaran was an Alliance city made neutral by Jaina. She can undo what was given, and nobody is going to tell the most power living mage "No". She already did once in the first Purge. The humans sympathetic to the Horde (wtf?) can go live in Suramar or Silvermoon.

The Alliance has lost way too many cities, and gained nothing back in years. In Legion, the Horde gained Highmountain and Suramar; the Alliance got a broken space ship and a rock drifting in the void. Reclaiming at least one city that was originally theirs to begin with are scraps at best.

Dalaran was Alliance only under Jaina's tyrannical rule after Pandaria. Traditionally it was separate human kingdom which didn't choose to bow to Varian.

Magnitude of Horde cities is obvious. Zandalar and Suramar are far more advanced than

mud hut

you called Darnassus.

[Alixie]

Stop dargging the distinctly human city Dalaran into the elf debate. Not that I'm saying the neutrality of Dalaran is debatable in the horde alliance conflict. But I has little place in the elf discussion.

Also you could argue horde has about 0,75 magical elf city. Half of silvermoon is still wrecked and only a small part of suramar is in horde allied hands. How about the alliance start reclaiming the other half of silvermoon, now that would be interesting.

Magical city created and occupied by High Elves and humans has nothing to do with elves.

Wut?

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From Horde perspective Jaina and Tyrande deserve to die.

Dalaran was Alliance only under Jaina's tyrannical rule after Pandaria. Traditionally it was separate human kingdom which didn't choose to bow to Varian.

Magnitude of Horde cities is obvious. Zandalar and Suramar are far more advanced than you called Darnassus.

Dalaran did not leave the Alliance until Wrath where it was declared neutral by Rhonin. Then the Horde returned his kindness by blowing him up in a mana bomb. Its time to kick the Horde squatters out and return the city back to the Alliance.

After burning down Darnassus, the Horde owes the Alliance a new magical elf city. Its either Silvermoon or Dalaran.

[matrix123mko]

[I]
Dalaran did not leave the Alliance until Wrath where it was declared neutral by Rhonin. Then the Horde returned his kindness by blowing him up in a mana bomb. Its time to kick the Horde squatters out and return the city back to the Alliance.

They never joined Alliance. And bomb was aimed against Theramore which dared to declare war on Garrosh.

After burning down Darnassus, the Horde owes the Alliance a new magical elf city. Its either Silvermoon or Dalaran.

You got Lordaeron.

[rogueMatthias]

I'm curious, if Void Elves were given a white-skin and blonde hair colour option (maybe a few styles without tentacles), would people be happy with that, or would the fact they're "Void Elves" still taint them as different race to High Elves?

[FlubberPuddy]

I'm curious, if Void Elves were given a white-skin and blonde hair colour option (maybe a few styles without tentacles), would people be happy with that, or would the fact they're "Void Elves" still taint them as different race to High Elves?

I want to say that if it was the only option ever, then I'm sure people would accept it. Like if High Elves couldn't ever be a thing.

I don't necessarily know about being happy about it, but it would be seen at least as a compromise.

Just like how it's clear there's people that are playing Void Elves today for reasons that aren't even related to being a Voidy elf. I've seen some people say they enjoy the slim model. Some love their racials for a caster and think its the best. Some love the tmog racial. Some wanted to play an Elf Warlock on Alliance. Some play em right now because they are (model wise) the closest thing to an Alliance High Elf atm.

Of course there's peeps that do enjoy that Void aspect of them, but more times than not that reason doesn't get brought up.

I feel like being both an Alliance member and a High Elf are the two core things that can't come separately regarding this request. I'm talking elves like SC, Highvale, Allerian stronghold, and Alleria herself as examples.

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Also I feel people in general play races for aesthetics. Rarely will you see people picking a race "because of their lore" and online forums are always a niche representative of the broader playerbase. I think people generally pick a race first because it's visually appealing to them.

Like I enjoy the lore of Dwarves, but you'll never see me playing one seriously because they don't do anything for me visually.

But to me, that's what makes the High Elf requests even more interesting, because it's been a pretty consistently known thing throughout WoW's history on online forums and within the game itself.

[Ielenia]

I'm curious, if Void Elves were given a white-skin and blonde hair colour option (maybe a few styles without tentacles), would people be happy with that, or would the fact they're "Void Elves" still taint them as different race to High Elves?

I would not be happy at all, but it would mean, to me, that actual playable high elves would be an actual impossibility to be implemented, so I'd accept it. I wouldn't like it, but I'd accept it.

[Aldo Hawk]

I'm curious, if Void Elves were given a white-skin and blonde hair colour option (maybe a few styles without tentacles), would people be happy with that, or would the fact they're "Void Elves" still taint them as different race to High Elves?

It would be total crap.

Both Void elves and High elves gutted out. One more than the other.

But if it's the only possibility... what the hell, why not...

[Doffen]

Is anyone here colorblind!? None of this matters then lol

I have to admit, seeing them in the wowhead dressing room, they are more purple than I was thinking to begin with:P

But gray? Lol

[Frenchvince]

I'm curious, if Void Elves were given a white-skin and blonde hair colour option (maybe a few styles without tentacles), would people be happy with that, or would the fact they're "Void Elves" still taint them as different race to High Elves?

It's not just a story of hair color or skin (there are already hairstyles without tentacles).

It is especially the color of the eyes that will be complicated since they are ex BE, they will have their green eyes that they had before becoming VE? Or to go from BE to VE, we can become an HE again?

The package that goes with the playable race of the high elf (Quel'dorei horse mount, racial armor, customization ect ...)
is still more interesting for me.

[Alixie]

New rule: Blizzard cant use High Elves in the story anymore or create new High Elf NPCs until they are playable. They clearly want to use High Elves; they were widely used in Legion and BFA, but keep claiming that they cant be playable because they're almost extinct and indistinguishable from Blood Elves. You cant have your cake and eat it too. This extends to the Wildhammer. They are everywhere in BFA, yet are unplayable. They should be a player choice before Garbage Gnomes.

[SaneOstrich]

Magical city created and occupied by High Elves and humans has nothing to do with elves.

Could have sworn Dalaran was a human only thing, I stand corrected.

[LuminaL]

I dont understand how some people argue on high elves and blood elves culture are the same thing. while their culture is as same as night elves and night born.

just like night elves and nightborn they were part of a bigger culture but they were separated. and having kultiran human and DI dwarf shows us that having different culture will end up with different racials.

just look at how different Aleria looks( tattoos and armors ) compared to a blood elf.

so high elves have different culture + different racials + different racial armor + difference in their character creating options (+plust point: different ideology).

void elves have these too, maybe even minus different culture and they became an allied race. so why cant high elves ?

[Chain Chungus]

Blood Elves have also been permanently mutated by the fel. This would change them on the genetic level, essentially making them a new species.

If Mag'har can be an AR, then so can High Elves.

[SaneOstrich]

I dont understand how some people argue on high elves and blood elves culture are the same thing. while their culture is as same as night elves and night born.

just like night elves and nightborn they were part of a bigger culture but they were separated. and having kultiran human and DI dwarf shows us that having different culture will end up with different racials.

just look at how different Aleria looks( tattoos and armors ) compared to a blood elf.

so high elves have different culture + different racials + different racial armor + difference in their character creating options (+plust point: different ideology).

void elves have these too, maybe even minus different culture and they became an allied race. so why cant high elves ?

It has been what? 20 years since the high elves renamed themselves blood elves. Even if a culture could change significantly in such short time (in a race that lives a stupendous long time). How would it have changed differently if they hadn't renamed themselves?

[LuminaL]

It has been what? 20 years since the high elves renamed themselves blood elves. Even if a culture could change significantly in such short time (in a race that lives a stupendous long time). How would it have changed differently if they hadn't renamed themselves?

you missed my point. my point is they are both sub culture of a whole bigger culture. its like if school=culture then emo kids and nerd kids and athletic kids are part of school culture.

same as kultiran and Gilneas, they share the same main culture but differ in smaller sub cultures. its the same thing with nightelf/nightborn and high elf/blood elf.

[Obelisk Kai]

The problem here is that I don't need to present more evidence than HE being alliance and the reasons on why they do for a plausible allied race. Which I and many others already did.

We know from Blizzard that there is one major criteria to be a candidate for an Allied race that Alliance High Elves do not fulfil. That criteria is not already being playable.

They have told us this indirectly by creating the Void Elf substitute in the place of Alliance High Elves, and directly with the statement 'the Horde is waiting for you' if you want to play a traditional style high elf.

Saying you don't need to present more evidence is false. It presumes you have presented evidence at all, when you have merely put forth opinion and it presumes you have swayed your target audience, Blizzard themselves, who appear wholly unconvinced of the merits of your case.

Your opinions are not evidence. Stating things such as 'Alliance High Elves exist' as if that is enough to justify their inclusion only convinces you because, as a fan, you have the luxury of disregarding all other facts that the people responsible have to consider when they judged your request.

And yes, you are indulging into a constant stream of auto determination due to seeing others agreeing with you and twisting things to fit your view. It's a literal echo chamber. Maybe you shouldn't get too attached to the meaning of 'chamber' since, if you didn't noticed, it's a rhetoric name for a concept that touches on the idea of people self asserting themselves through other like minded individuals. AKA the exact same thing you and many others have been doing.

No what is happening is that you are attempting to twist the meaning of the term echo chamber so that a public forum where your opinions are debated becomes an echo chamber, whereas a semi niche discord dedicated to the promotion of that opinion is somehow an open space of free thought.

That is a position completely opposed to reality. An open forum by definition is not an echo chamber, the whole point of the term is that in that space all you hear are your own thoughts reflected back at you. The mere fact you and those who agree with you are continually responding shows this is not an echo chamber.

What i'm not surprised is that it's hard to find honest and reasonable people to debate with. Since we got kind of a culture in the wow community about talking down, trolling and dismissing people who request for high elves.

So a victimization complex. As I suspected, 'reasonable' anti High Elfers are those who would, after a time, become persuaded by the merits of your arguments. Once you talked to them for a bit, the scales would fall from their eyes and they would drop their opposition. Anyone who clings to the idea that Blood Elves are High Elves, that High Elves are playable and that faction diversity is worth protecting is only out to 'troll' pro High Elfers.

You stand on the strength of the case you present. But your case is trumped up opinion, a seemingly endless parade of pro High Elfers patiently explaining why every development does not mitigate against Alliance High Elves.

The 2005 Caydiem forum post which explained why High Elves weren't playable, rejected initially because Caydiem didn't know any better and then because it became 'too old'.

The Warcraft Encyclopedia entries which declared the number of Alliance High Elves as vanishingly low, rejected on the grounds that 'population shouldn't matter when determining new races' with constant references to other apparently low population races which are playable (disregarding that those other low population races are the point, if they are so low on population and are playable, imagine how few Alliance High Elves there actually are.)

The Ghostcrawler 2013 tweet on neutrality, rejected on the grounds that it was 'one person's opinion'. That's a common one, if a developer says something you don't like, it's 'opinion'. Because when they go into the office they certainly don't use those 'opinions' when designing the game, because if they did we might have to take what they say as having meaning and that wouldn't help the pro High Elf case.

The introduction of the Void Elves themselves, the idea they are a compromise rejected because 'Blizzard didn't say they were' or that we are expected to believe that Blizzard gave the Alliance a thalassian elf variant without even considering Alliance High Elves.

Ion Hazzikostas's two times where he said no, rejected because he was apparently an idiot and he would be fired anyway.

Time and again, even when you get the most direct 'no' ever reported on the topic, your community rejects each development and argues it doesn't matter, finding convenient ways to justify to yourselves how there is still hope. And what does hope consist of?

Variations of 'Anything is possible in future'. Of course anything in this game is possible in the future, they could make Sylvanas God-Empress of the Moon people, that's definitely possible but I am also going to say that based on over two decades of game development I would wager that outcome is extraordinarily unlikely.

So if you find yourself 'talked down to' or 'dismissed' it's because the case presented by pro High Elfers doesn't stand up and rather than engage with the evidence (which is almost entirely against) your community is well known for serial denial of the facts.

Is not a problem of lacking an amount of people, since only today 3 new users have entered the server and 19 in total have came since the start of this month. It's a problem of having a sane discussion without going in circles with already debunked statements and having people who finds fun in jumping into the trolling train.

If you want to stop the discussion going in circles due to already debunked statements being reposted, please stop reposting them then.

[Wilfire]

Completely baffling that a year later people are still frothing at the mouth for playable High Elves. Just accept it, it's never going to happen.

[Neverafter]

Completely baffling that a year later people are still frothing at the mouth for playable High Elves. Just accept it, it's never going to happen.

But they might

[Obelisk Kai]

You're being inconsistent again. You say there's two sources for Word of God, the developer commentary, and the game itself.

Then you go on to rationalize what's presented in the game itself. So you are going against a Word of God source as even presented by yourself: the game itself.

I don't believe I am being inconsistent, that seems to be your new buzzword. Clinging to it after I provide you with several paragraphs explaining the nuance of my position makes you look determined to find a flaw in my position. Maybe there is, in responding I provided an awful lot of material for you to work with but it's internally consistent to me.

This original topic of discussion isn't about being "exactly purple" it's to show that what you yourself admit in your last sentence here. Purple elves fit. You've yet to answer why White elves can't be differentiated if the game can have 3 variations of Purple elves.



That block of quote of yours doesn't answer the question which was "And my original question to you was, if each of these three groups can be classified as purple but look varied, why can the same not be done with white between two groups?"

Void Elves are also Thalassian Elves. If you are saying Alliance High Elves and Blood Elves are the same race and thus cannot be differentiated then it follows that Void Elves, who are also Thalassian Elves should be having some of their customization gone to Blood Elves. This is shown to not be true. You state something happened to them to make them different. Well something also happened with the High Elves, which is why you never see a red-skinned or reddish hue Alliance High Elf.

You also never commented on how others of the same race (ie Orcs, Dwarves, Humans, Trolls, Tauren) do not share customization options either. Just as Void Elves do not share customization with Blood Elves. Just as High Elves do not share customization with Blood Elves nor Void Elves.

You are actually just having this circular discussion now because you still cannot admit that you have argued inconsistently.

This is the third time I have answered this.

Each of those three groups have a distinct origin whereas the desire for Alliance High Elves, as I am continually being reminded, revolves around a group who have not been differentiated in a similar way and are in fact political exiles.

To differentiate Alliance High Elves in a similar way means doing something to them so that they are, at the end of the process, no longer high elves.

At which point they would instantly be rejected by the pro High Elf community by no longer being High Elves.

As for High Elves not having the more flushed skin tones, that is a limitation, not a difference. All high elf skin tones are analogous to available player skin tones save with blue eyes. If it was a difference, Alliance High Elves would have a unique palette set. They do not.

Your counter-point about Void Elves is curious given that something DID happen to them, they were blasted by Void energies.

As for other races not sharing customization options, this point is poorly explained but I presume you mean things such as Mag'har Orcs and ordinary Orcs not sharing hair styles and beards. So what? Hair styles and beard styles and jewelry are meaningless fluff. Allied races tend to be very close to their parent races, usually with only one big physical difference. If they decided to add in a little bit extra differentiation by giving them unique hairstyles, beards and jewelry, those aren't real differences. Those are garnishes.

Garnishes improve the look of a meal, but you can't build a meal out of garnishes. Just as you can't make Alliance High Elves an Allied race by pretending different hairstyles, beards or even poses would be equivalent to being blasted by void energy, or isolated for ten millenia in the radiance of the nightwell, or blessed by Cenarius, or reforged by the light itself.

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Could have sworn Dalaran was a human only thing, I stand corrected.

Dalaran was founded by the Humans who had been taught magic by the high elves. These high elves made their long term home in Dalaran and would form a community there. Human and High Elf spellcasters lived in Dalaran side by side for thousands of years. Dalaran was almost certainly the greatest concentration of High Elves outside of Quel'thalas.

When Quel'thalas fell and Kael'thas heard the news he left Dalaran. A large number of the High Elf mages resident in Quel'thalas accompanied him back. When the city was rebuilt they would return, as Blood Elves, calling themselves the Sunreavers after Aethas Sunreaver. Jaina later acknowledged that the elves comprising the Sunreavers were those who taught humanity magic.

When the Kirin Tor learned that Arthas and the Scourge were heading for Dalaran, Archmage Antonidas told Jaina to evacuate the city and take as many as she could to Kalimdor, which she did. Some of the remaining High Elves accompanied her, where in Warcraft 3 they were the Mage and Priest units accompanying her. Following the founding of Theramore, these Elves settled in the new city with her. Any who stayed behind to defend Theramore against the Horde are presumed to have died when the mana bomb hit, no theramore High Elves were found among the captured survivors during the siege of Orgrimmar.

Not all High Elves accompanied Jaina. Some remained behind with the Kirin Tor. It is unknown how many of these joined Kael when he returned from Quel'thalas to aid the Alliance. but a few High Elves declined the opportunity and remained with the Kirin Tor, as did a handful of High Elf civilians who dwell in Dalaran to this day. The high elves who stayed with the Kirin Tor are those who have been associated with the city for centuries, likely millenia.

When Rhonin was appointed archmage of the Kirin Tor, he oversaw the reconstruction of Dalaran. His wife, Veressa Windrunner, opposed the admission of the Sunreavers back into the city. She sent out a call and several of the few remaining Alliance High Elves answered and with them she formed the Silver Covenant. Primarily it consisted of former Farstriders, those Elves who had embraced an existence away from Silvermoon and it's magisters for the isolation of the wilds and war with the Trolls and who likely had an increased affinity for the Alliance because of their lifestyle, but a few representatives from other disciplines also gathered. Most of the Silver Covenant didn't have the same connection with the city the Sunreavers could claim, but for them it was a new home.

I hope that summarises the connection the High Elves have with Dalaran. In truth, it's the one place in the entire world of warcraft where Alliance High Elves seems to gather in anything approaching decent numbers. It's also why they only appear to show in such numbers when Dalaran is involved.

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What are the main characters that you play in World of Warcraft?

I am unsure of the relevance of the question? If it is because you think I only play Horde, that is not true. I have leveled several Alliance characters over the years specifically in order to see their side of the story. Originally it was my monk whom I ended up liking so much I transferred him to my Horde guild at the end of Warlords of Draenor.

In Legion I created a Night Elf Demon Hunter and used him for that purpose, I did intend to reuse him for the same purpose in BFA but ultimately decided against it and used my boost to create a Draenei shaman.

You can find his link here

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/ch...hisper/menator

[Ielenia]

We know from Blizzard that there is one major criteria to be a candidate for an Allied race that Alliance High Elves do not fulfil. That criteria is not already being playable.

False. This criteria is something the high elves fill in spades. They are simply not playable. That is a fact. There is no 'high elf' option in the Alliance side of the race selection in the character creation screen.

Repeat this "blood elves are high elves" all you want, that doesn't change the fact that high elves (i.e. the thalassian elves who refuse to follow Lor'themar, banished from Silvermoon, and Alliance-aligned) are not playable. This nonsensical argument of "blood elves are high elves" can be said for all allied races: "Zandalari are trolls", "dark iron are dwarves", "lightforged draenei are draenei", "kul'tiran are humans", etc, etc.

They have political differences enough to draw blood and foster hate between the two factions. That is more than enough differentiation to make them viable to become an allied race, considering "different silhouettes" are apparently no longer a requirement for allied races.

If you want to stop the discussion going in circles due to already debunked statements being reposted, please stop reposting them then.

That is also true for you.