1. #10821
    Quote Originally Posted by Strippling View Post
    Let's say void elfs are the worst case of all; on the other hand... DID are easily the best case of all the ARs. Their lore and involvement since vanilla outweighs any of the other ARs.

    On that basis, the "worst case void elfs" is counter balanced by the "best case DID". So in terms of AR lore, things are equal between both factions. And stop trying to marginalize LF Draenei, we learnt and saw plenty about them on Argus. We even had a three series audio drama discussing in great detail about these LF draenei. You conveniently left that out too. None of the Horde ARs got that treatment. Again, stop victimizing the Alliance. Your ARs had equal "love and attention" given to them. The fact that high elfs weren't added does not mean "Blizzard doesn't care", it merely shows that they prioritize faction identity when considering races... which shouldn't be astonishing, given this game has always revolved around two separate and distinct factions.
    While the new Dark Iron are awesome, I kinda gripe at the fact that since Vanilla you could already make one with the skins available when creating a new Dwarf... and it was the only thing Mag'har fans were asking for since at least Cata (a brown complexion option).

    ...I had a lot of fun rolling a Dwarf Warlock when it was possible, thematically making him a Dark Iron with appropriate complexion and eye color, but now I'm stuck with my Dark Iron Warlock who's not a Dark Iron... (not a fan of race changes, I like my alts to have their own histories)
    Last edited by Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang; 2019-05-21 at 09:33 AM.

  2. #10822
    Quote Originally Posted by Strippling View Post
    Let's say void elfs are the worst case of all; on the other hand... DID are easily the best case of all the ARs. Their lore and involvement since vanilla outweighs any of the other ARs.

    On that basis, the "worst case void elfs" is counter balanced by the "best case DID". So in terms of AR lore, things are equal between both factions. And stop trying to marginalize LF Draenei, we learnt and saw plenty about them on Argus. We even had a three series audio drama discussing in great detail about these LF draenei. You conveniently left that out too. None of the Horde ARs got that treatment. Again, stop victimizing the Alliance. Your ARs had equal "love and attention" given to them. The fact that high elfs weren't added does not mean "Blizzard doesn't care", it merely shows that they prioritize faction identity when considering races... which shouldn't be astonishing, given this game has always revolved around two separate and distinct factions.
    You are crazy if you think a good allied race compensate a bad one, or even two bad ones.

    Each race is a character template. Each needs to have its own qualities, not rely on the quality of others.

    "Void elves are horrible, but it's okay, I feel like playing one because dark irons are awesome."

    No logic. It doesn't matter how cool dark irons are if what you are evaluating are void elves and lightforged draenei.

    And the best developed allied race is actually the nightborne, btw. Most effort put into an introduction ever.

  3. #10823
    Stood in the Fire Strippling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    You are crazy if you think a good allied race compensate a bad one, or even two bad ones.

    Each race is a character template. Each needs to have its own qualities, not rely on the quality of others.

    "Void elves are horrible, but it's okay, I feel like playing one because dark irons are awesome."

    No logic. It doesn't matter how cool dark irons are if what you are evaluating are void elves and lightforged draenei.

    And the best developed allied race is actually the nightborne, btw. Most effort put into an introduction ever.
    Personally I don't think VE are bad, I was merely going off your logic. Statistically, VE are the most successful AR... that's a literal fact. So despite what you think, they are anything but bad... they are (for lack of a better word) the "best" AR currently. Stats speak louder than your opinion.

    Also, nightborne had a zone worth of introduction. LF Draenei had a patch worth PLUS a three series audio drama. There's no issue with the current AR lineup (regarding fairness), you're just trying to make one.
    Last edited by Strippling; 2019-05-21 at 11:23 AM.
    That one misunderstands much... and underestimates more - Broxigar the Red Axe

  4. #10824
    Quote Originally Posted by Strippling View Post
    Personally I don't think VE are bad, I was merely going off your logic. Statistically, VE are the most successful AR... that's a literal fact. So despite what you think, they are anything but bad... they are (for lack of a better word) the "best" AR currently. Stats speak louder than your opinion.
    All we know is that void elves have the most alts created, but they also one of the first available allied races and had a seven-month before BfA for people to level them up and get ready for the expansion.

    Also, people playing the race does not mean they're fine with it. A lot of people don't care about lore, a lot of people made a void elf because they can't make a high elf, and many void elf players want to see the race better developed.

    Start any discussion about void elves in any forum, and the most common complain is that their lore is non-existant. It's a very glaring flaw. Search for discussion on void elves and see for yourself.

    Also, nightborne had a zone worth of introduction. LF Draenei had a patch worth PLUS a three series audio drama. There's no issue with the current AR lineup (regarding fairness), you're just trying to make one.
    LF Draenei were featured in both the patch and short novel, but the story wasn't really about them. It doesn't delve into them in any meaningful manner. There's a huge difference between being featured and being fleshed out.

  5. #10825
    Quote Originally Posted by Yzak View Post
    Sooo because someone is in opposition to what you want they're an asshole and are thus trolling?

    Sound logic. /sarcasm (if it wasn't obvious)
    The guy showed up to write literally nothing of value, as his stance on playable high elves has been made crystal clear throughout all those half a thousand pages in the thread.

    All he did was 'bump' the thread, which is against the rules, and bait others to reply to him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strippling View Post
    So it's not considered trolling when high elfers post in here or other forums "here to show my support for high elfs" but apparently it's trolling when I post to reiterate my support for NO high elfs?

    Double standards.

    This is a megathread for AND against high elfs. I'm within my rights to express my support, whether for or against.
    No double-standards at all.

    Usually, when people do that, posting "just want to offer my support for/against high elves", those are posters who are new to the thread or just "lurkers". You? You're no 'lurker' or new to the thread.

    Just like the Horde ARs. Stop playing the "Alliance victim" card.
    And yet ALL the Horde AR have been heavily featured already: in Legion, in WoD, and in all through WoW's life. Respectively: nightborne and highmoutain tauren, mag'har orcs, and zandalari trolls.

    The only Alliance "allied race" with the same treatment are the dark iron dwarves. Period.
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  6. #10826
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post

    And yet ALL the Horde AR have been heavily featured already: in Legion, in WoD, and in all through WoW's life. Respectively: nightborne and highmoutain tauren, mag'har orcs, and zandalari trolls.

    The only Alliance "allied race" with the same treatment are the dark iron dwarves. Period.
    Lightforged got more spotlight than Highmountain. They got bigger zone and three part audio drama. Kul Tirans were main villains of Warcraft 3 Orc Campaign.
    I give my flesh and blood freely to the Warchief. I am the instrument of my Warchief's desire. I am a weapon of my Warchief's command.
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  7. #10827
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    The guy showed up to write literally nothing of value,
    "to me" are the missing words to that sentence. "nothing of value to me." As what he says has value to those that don't support the idea of playable Alliance based High Elves.

    as his stance on playable high elves has been made crystal clear throughout all those half a thousand pages in the thread.
    If we follow that logic then everyone who continues to share any idea what-so-ever in this thread is meritless and just bumping the thread as most points have been discussed at great lengths.

    All he did was 'bump' the thread, which is against the rules, and bait others to reply to him.
    Which again; as stated above, those in support of are just as guilty at this point then. And it's not bait, it's his stance. Opposition is not bait or trolling no matter how much you wish it were.

    Now had he posted that and simply kept reposting that, then I'd agree with you, but that's not the case.
    Last edited by Yzak; 2019-05-21 at 03:34 PM.
    At times, the frequent redundancy and stupidity of these forums, turns me into an argumentative ass.

    To most of you, I apologize in advance. I will attempt to be nicer.

    To the High Elfers out there... If it doesn't workout how you believe/want don't try to paint Blizzard as the bad guy for your own hype building.

  8. #10828
    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    Lightforged got more spotlight than Highmountain. They got bigger zone and three part audio drama. Kul Tirans were main villains of Warcraft 3 Orc Campaign.
    Argus barely touched the lightforged. Only two parts of the storyline give them any attention: Xenedar's Crash (where we meet them) and the east part of Mac'Aree (where we are helped by some named characters).

    Cite unique things of the lightforged culture.

    I'll cite some of the highmountain: different tribes with perks (Iron Horn - metalsmithing, Rivermane - river magic, Skyhorn - eagle riders, Blood Totem - proud in their strength and battle-eager), a dragon counceling their high chieftain, alliance with drogbar.

    History and rituals: Descendend from established character Huln Hihgmountain, blessed by Cenarius, guardians of the Hammer of Khaz'goroth, had an ancestral arfifact (Talonclaw) whose history interwines with them, sealed an ancient evil in their mountain, guard Neltharion's lair, each high chieftain must pass through an ancient rite in which they emulate Huln's adventure against Deathwing.

    (Oh, and the Prepfoot tribe, but that's mostly a joke).

    Not one of those things is shared with the base race, tauren.

    It's the details, not just presence, that make good lore.

    "Together, we are Highmountain!"

  9. #10829
    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    Lightforged got more spotlight than Highmountain. They got bigger zone and three part audio drama. Kul Tirans were main villains of Warcraft 3 Orc Campaign.
    "Their zones are bigger" is false for two BIG reasons: one, zone size is meaningless; and two, those zones were about the original draenei, not their lightforged version.

    And the audio drama wasn't about the lightforged. They were featured, but it was about them. Whereas the Highmountain tauren had an entire zone dedicated to them, and we had to explore the race's lore and past, to the point of witnessing how their 'race' came to be.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Yzak View Post
    "to me" are the missing words to that sentence. "nothing of value to me." As what he says has value to those that don't support the idea of playable Alliance based High Elves.
    There are no missing words. His post literally had zero value because he had already made his position regarding this subject perfectly clear in this 500+ page thread already.

    If we follow that logic then everyone who continues to share any idea what-so-ever in this thread is meritless and just bumping the thread as most points have been discussed at great lengths.
    Except you're not following any logic. Because other posters here are discussing ideas and going back-and-forth with actual arguments.

    Which again; as stated above, those in support of are just as guilty at this point then.
    False equivalence. Others (on both sides of this argument, mind you) that do this are, like I mentioned, "lurkers" or people that just came into the thread. They're not posters with dozens of posts in this thread alone who already made their position crystal-clear about this subject.
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  10. #10830
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    And the audio drama wasn't about the lightforged. They were featured, but it was about them. Whereas the Highmountain tauren had an entire zone dedicated to them, and we had to explore the race's lore and past, to the point of witnessing how their 'race' came to be.
    The worst part is that both lightforged and void elves have a ton of potential for insteresting stories. The lightforged have this history of battle and war, of having no place to call home, of following rigid military order, of zealotry. All those can be interesting when clashing with civilian life, living in Azeroth, different faiths? They are also supposedly badass soldiers, an elite force that faced the Legion for millenia. Yet, there's nothing exploring them so far.

    THe void elves lack even the most basic depth. Who are they? Why they chose to study the void? How they create more of themselves? How are they adapting to the Alliance? What's their ethos? What trials a potential void elf face in order to be transformed? What elves seek them? Nothing, just nothing.

    They have nothing but potential.

    When you create a new highmountain or nightborne, and see their intro narration, it calls back to all the experiences we had with them in Legion. When you create a new void elf or lightforged, you feel like their entire lore is described in the intro narration. It doesn't summon any great memories from the player.

  11. #10831
    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    The worst part is that both lightforged and void elves have a ton of potential for insteresting stories. The lightforged have this history of battle and war, of having no place to call home, of following rigid military order, of zealotry. All those can be interesting when clashing with civilian life, living in Azeroth, different faiths? They are also supposedly badass soldiers, an elite force that faced the Legion for millenia. Yet, there's nothing exploring them so far.
    Exactly. Imagine, even, if Blizzard brings the draenei from AU Draenor, the ones that became "Light fanatics"? And have them join the Lightforged in their zealotry.

    THe void elves lack even the most basic depth. Who are they? Why they chose to study the void? How they create more of themselves? How are they adapting to the Alliance? What's their ethos? What trials a potential void elf face in order to be transformed? What elves seek them? Nothing, just nothing.

    They have nothing but potential.
    Lil' correction there: they have nothing but wasted, unexplored potential.

    When you create a new highmountain or nightborne, and see their intro narration, it calls back to all the experiences we had with them in Legion. When you create a new void elf or lightforged, you feel like their entire lore is described in the intro narration. It doesn't summon any great memories from the player.
    Correct. The lightforged draenei and void elves' entire lore begins at the "AR unlock scenario" (that you only see once in the entire game) and ends at the narration you see on when creating a new character. It's... laughable, unfortunately.
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  12. #10832
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    Is there a consensus yet?

    This is my favorite thread to hop into once a week and read the latest page. It's just the same four people telling four other people, "na ah."

    I genuinely mean it, this is my favorite thread.

  13. #10833
    Quote Originally Posted by Directionalk9 View Post
    Is there a consensus yet?
    Yes, the consensus is:

    "I am correct."

    With "I" being whoever is posting at the time.

  14. #10834
    I am Murloc! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traycor View Post
    Yes, the consensus is:

    "I am correct."

    With "I" being whoever is posting at the time.
    That implies it is all down to a matter of opinion, which is incorrect.

    One side has evidence and developer commentary on it's side, the other is a passion project.

    The Anti High Elf side is correct as things stand, but that was never the point as the pro High Elf side exists to change Blizzard's mind.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    "If you want to be a fair skinned, light haired, blue eyed elf...sorry, the horde is there waiting for you"

    -Game Director Ion Hazzikostas

  15. #10835
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    That implies it is all down to a matter of opinion, which is incorrect.

    One side has evidence and developer commentary on it's side, the other is a passion project.

    The Anti High Elf side is correct as things stand, but that was never the point as the pro High Elf side exists to change Blizzard's mind.
    Nice joke Obelisk Kai. You usually don't care about developer commentary as long as it doesn't fit your opinion.
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  16. #10836
    I am Murloc! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elbleuet View Post
    Nice joke Obelisk Kai. You usually don't care about developer commentary as long as it doesn't fit your opinion.
    What developer commentary does not match my opinion?

    Chris Metzen said Blood Elves are High Elves.

    Ion Hazzikostas said Void Elves were created to provide a different flavor of High Elves to the Alliance and that Alliance High Elves undermine the faction wall.

    Holinka talked about Void Elf customizations, saying nothing about High Elves as a Void Elf with high elf like customizations is still a Void Elf, not an Alliance High Elf.

    And Ythisens expressed his opinion after he had left the company and was never a developer.

    This is less about me ignoring developer commentary that doesn't fit my opinion, and more about me not going along with pro High Elf attempts to twist comments out of context or relying on someone's personal opinion.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    "If you want to be a fair skinned, light haired, blue eyed elf...sorry, the horde is there waiting for you"

    -Game Director Ion Hazzikostas

  17. #10837
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    What developer commentary does not match my opinion?

    Chris Metzen said Blood Elves are High Elves.

    Ion Hazzikostas said Void Elves were created to provide a different flavor of High Elves to the Alliance and that Alliance High Elves undermine the faction wall.

    Holinka talked about Void Elf customizations, saying nothing about High Elves as a Void Elf with high elf like customizations is still a Void Elf, not an Alliance High Elf.

    And Ythisens expressed his opinion after he had left the company and was never a developer.

    This is less about me ignoring developer commentary that doesn't fit my opinion, and more about me not going along with pro High Elf attempts to twist comments out of context or relying on someone's personal opinion.
    They may have said them things but they have never actually said "No" so stop saying they have. This threads so pathetic now with the same 2-3 people against with the same 3-4 people for something so stupid and trivial.

  18. #10838
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    That implies it is all down to a matter of opinion, which is incorrect.

    One side has evidence and developer commentary on it's side, the other is a passion project.

    The Anti High Elf side is correct as things stand, but that was never the point as the pro High Elf side exists to change Blizzard's mind.
    And "ZOOM" goes the point miles above your head.
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  19. #10839
    I am Murloc! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    And "ZOOM" goes the point miles above your head.
    Forgive me if I refuse to accept the idea that both the anti High Elf and pro High Elf cases are as well thought out and supported by the evidence as each other. One is clearly superior in that regard and pretending that it all boils down to the opinion of whomever is speaking in these forums is disingenuous.

    It does all boil down to an opinion, the opinions of the Blizzard developers and their opinions currently support the anti high elf stance.
    Last edited by Obelisk Kai; 2019-05-23 at 01:05 PM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    "If you want to be a fair skinned, light haired, blue eyed elf...sorry, the horde is there waiting for you"

    -Game Director Ion Hazzikostas

  20. #10840
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Forgive me if I refuse to accept the idea that both the anti High Elf and pro High Elf cases are as well thought out and supported by the evidence as each other.
    And "ZOOM" goes the point miles above your head. Again.

    Looks like @Traycor's post really struck a nerve hard on you.

    One is clearly superior in that regard and pretending that it all boils down to the opinion of whomever is speaking in these forums is disingenuous.
    The arrogance is strong on this one.
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    Update 09/02: Apparently the mods decided to merge my class concept thread with an existing one.

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