Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Aldo Hawk]

Firstly, that video is meaningless in the context of this discussion.

No pattern.

If you can't even accept something so simple as this you are just demonstrating (again) that you are here just to be antagonistic.

Hence considering how 'Alliance High Elves' fit into the pattern of of Allied races, or lack thereof...

You can't even come in terms with something so straightforward yet so simple...

And no, High elves are not playable, doesn't matter how much you repeat it. That's another thing you are not capable to come in terms with.

It's pure obsession.

Obsession is also in the eye of the beholder.

Well you were the one who described the opposition as 'talking down, trolling and dismissing people who request for high elves.' So yes, that strikes me as clear sign of a victimisation complex.

Does anyone feel surprised that when someone against this dude points out something bad that has been happening to our community, it's some kind of a victimization complex?

...

Me neither, it's just another scummy way to tell us to shut up.

So my charge was the pro High Elf community confuses the word with evidence with simply being pissed the developers don't agree with them and then trying to argue why the developers are either wrong or don't matter.

Nobody is trying to convince you. It's a lost cause. The importance of answering your bullshit is to show anyone coming into the thread why it is flawed and totally biased.

High elves are not Blood elves, you have been shown that this is true even if you keep repeating like a broken record that Blood elves are High elves just because Ion said that in a Q&A. Thus, High elves, the ones that matter in this regard and not those who call themselves Blood elves, are not playable. There is nothing anyone can do to change the fact.

And you not acknowledging what I just linked doesn't mean it's out of context. You and many others have been praising a supposed pattern for what an allied race has to pass through to become a valid candidate. And I just linked a video of Alex Afrasiabi basically shutting your mouth about that nonsense. There's nothing around it, it's clear, it's direct, it's straightforward. No pattern. That was just directly after you started to pander about a supposed pattern where HE are out. Out of context? My balls are out of context.

You consistently offer ill informed opinion. You do not offer evidence. Or if you do offer actual evidence, as you attempted above, you do so wildly out of context and with little relation to the topic actually at hand.

This is a level of projection beyond human capabilities.

YOU are the one twisting context in your favor. YOU are the one who is constantly repeating half truths trying to pass them as valid points. YOU are the one who thinks that something coming out of a developer's mouth makes it an immovable truth. YOU are the one who don't settle up for simple and clear facts. YOU are the one who dismisses everything because it comes from opposition.

Yes but if I stopped quoting your already debunked statements when I debunk them again it could make the structure of the response difficult to follow. That is why I suggested to you that you stop posting them altogether.

No, i'm not gonna stop saying something if it's not wrong or a lie.

High elves are not Blood elves, High elves are not playable, Void elves are everything but a High elf with the most similar traits being silhouette and allegiance, what Blood elves have doesn't matter since High elves are their own thing, they make for a viable allied race, allied races don't follow a certain pattern, Pandaren are a literal carbon copy whereas HE -cannot- be by the logic of how an allied race is implemented, etc...

[Alixie]

I mean, it kinda belongs to them. They can do whatever they want with their cake. If I bake a cake, I'm gonna do WTF I want to with it. Players have never been able to flat-out make demands, and hopefully, never will. There are some things you don't mess with, in this case, they don't want to upset the Horde playerbase just to appease the Alliance one. It's best to leave it the way it's been for 14 years.

There are plenty of races and species of things that are well-represented within the game, but aren't playable. By that logic you'd be able to play everything. I understand what you mean, though, because of the high demand behind the High Elves. I think in this regard, the notion that High Elves and Blood Elves are cosmetically too similar to have them on both factions, and that offering High Elves customization options would make Blood Elves feel "less cool" because High Elves get cool shit to set them apart.

I feel like that reasoning is easily embraced by most, but obviously some people struggle with it. Hence this entire thread.

Its a silly idiom, but it means you cant have it both ways. Blizzard claims that we cant play High Elves because they're supposedly very rare, and they arent unique enough to be their own race. Yet Blizz keeps using them to populate Alliance cities, and integrating them into the story in both major and minor events. Such as the High Elves sending an army to liberate Suramar.

Speaking of cake, here's an analogy. Imagine if instead of elves, we were arguing over spices, and Blizzard was a bakery. Lets say, High Elves are Sugar, and Blood Elves are Stevia. Stevia is made from Sugar, but its not real Sugar. Blizzard refuses to sell their customers deserts made with Sugar, because they claim Sugar is indistinguishable from Stevia, and its super rare. But holiday after holiday, Blizzard keeps baking lots of deserts made with the supposedly rare Sugar and Stevia, but they refuse to sell the deserts made with Sugar. Then in response to the high demand for Sugar, they release Sweet-N-Low as a compromise nobody asked for. We want real Sugar. Stevia and Sweet-N-Low will never be Sugar not matter how much they yell.

[Highelf]

For context, note that in the interview Ion says he 'accepts all the hate mail coming his way' as a result of his comments, the recent GM/CM response and the Afrasiabi's comments on the Void Elf angle which all prove one thing.

They know this is a request with a 'dedicated' fanbase.

Now, with that context established let me say I am not certain if English is your first language, but if not I would like to point there is a certain nuance to the use of the word 'basically' in certain circumstances. That nuance is when you are stating the obvious with the invitation to your questioner to reconsider their position because holding onto that position is self-evidently foolish. It is the rhetorical equivalent of pulling your punches, a softening of the blow.

So the wording is indeed important. But so is the context of the answer. And the context of the answer if you recall was his message that Alliance High Elves aren't being added because High Elves are playable as Blood Elves. From that context you would have us believe that the opening part of his statement still differentiated Blood Elves from Alliance High Elves rather than the reverse, that Blood Elves really are High Elves.

What, did he change his mind five seconds into the answer?




Judged entirely by a biased fan with an agenda. Hardly a disinterested party capable of making a rationale and fair judgement. Your rationale behind why the claim is false is, itself, deeply flawed.

Hypothetically, had Blood Elves not changed their name from High Elves and were on the Horde side of the character creator as High Elves, how could you argue that High Elves were not playable? You could not. That you are attempting to do so now rests on pretending an adjective has a lot more meaning than ever intended.

It also rests on ignoring developer commentary, particularly from Chris Metzen and Ion Hazzikostas.

Finally, by basing your argument on the fact the High Elf isn't present on the Alliance side of the character creation screen, you again retreat to the one difference between the two groups that nobody can question. Which of course, has been defined as not enough.



Zandalari Trolls are regarded as the 'Elves' of the Trolls, as noted by Vol'Jin in the eponymous novel. Specifically, they are notable for being physically larger and stronger than ordinary Trolls. Lore wise they have been regarded as a type of Troll apart from the others, with a civilization that has outlasted all other Troll Empires.



The Highmountain Tauren carry within them the blessing of Cenarius which has produced the physical differentiation of antlers instead of horns. They have also dwelt apart from the Mulgore Tauren for over ten thousand years.




By your failure to present any true differences between Blood Elves and Alliance High Elves, by your retreat to emphasising their political difference and by your insistence political difference is enough, it is patently obvious you can't justify anything else beyond some of them favouring the Alliance.

We have you stating that it is enough and we have a developer statement that it is not enough. I don't know how else to put to you that if you say one thing and the developers say another that the developers win. They win every single time.





Stating something is my opinion alone is an old pro High Elfer trick. Every fact is turned into an opinion and then dismissed because it is easier to dismiss opinions than it is facts. Regardless, that is not the case. Grimtotem are not allied race material, there is nothing differentiating them from other Tauren. Defias are not Allied race material, there is nothing differentiating them from other Humans.

Politics is not enough. Even if the proposed allied race is within the same faction as it's parent, politics is not enough. It is never enough. There has to be more for the simple reason that if you want people to shell money out for a race change there has to be something meaningful to entice them to spend.

And there are no physical differences between Blood Elves and Alliance High Elves. That is debunked head canon.

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Fair enough. The rest of the answer is as follows.

My main is a Blood Elf Frost Mage whom I created on the first day of the Burning Crusade and have played consistently ever since. On my Mage I was the server first to get Dragonwrath back in Cataclysm which is still a personal highlight of the game for me.

My favourite alt is my Orc Death Knight, whom I use to tank mythic plus dungeons.

I have a Tauren Monk at max level but as with my Draenei Shaman he doesn't get a lot of playtime as I focus on my two favorites.

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Who also happen to be on the same faction as their parents and avoid the faction differentiation argument.

Void Elves and Nightborne are as thematically and aesthetically different from their parents for a reason.

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Firstly, that video is meaningless in the context of this discussion. The flaw in Alliance High Elves is that their differentiating factor, being part of the Alliance, has no bearing on whether they are a different race to Blood Elves. They are not. Hence considering how 'Alliance High Elves' fit into the pattern of of Allied races, or lack thereof, is akin to wondering how Humans fit into the pattern of Allied races. They are already playable. Something that is already playable is not going to be added again. That is self-evident.

Obsession is also in the eye of the beholder. You would term those who argue for Alliance High Elves passionate after all, yet obsession would be a better description in some cases.

https://www.wowhead.com/search?q=Silver+Covenant#npcs Alliance Thalassian High elves. There's no need for more, really




Well you were the one who described the opposition as 'talking down, trolling and dismissing people who request for high elves.' So yes, that strikes me as clear sign of a victimisation complex.





So my charge was the pro High Elf community confuses the word with evidence with simply being pissed the developers don't agree with them and then trying to argue why the developers are either wrong or don't matter.

In response you...again try and point out why the developers are wrong or don't matter.

To explain, evidence is something you use to support an opinion. In demonstration, my argument that Blood Elves are High Elves to which I offer two Ion Hazzikostas statements, one Chris Metzen statement, the common sense that Blood Elves and High Elves are identical and the in game story as evidence. By providing this evidence, my opinion is backed up.

Opinion is not by itself evidence. It is merely opinion. And without evidence it is worse than just opinion, it is ill informed opinion.

You consistently offer ill informed opinion. You do not offer evidence. Or if you do offer actual evidence, as you attempted above, you do so wildly out of context and with little relation to the topic actually at hand.



Yes but if I stopped quoting your already debunked statements when I debunk them again it could make the structure of the response difficult to follow. That is why I suggested to you that you stop posting them altogether.

You sir are really reaching hard here. Or just arguing for arguments sake at this point.

[Hallowseve17]

Grimtotem will NEVER become an allied race, but the fantasy and dream can live on. Allow tauren access to war paint and maybe some more dark gray to black mane colors. Then open up mages and rogues as a new tauren race/class combo.

[SaneOstrich]

Its a silly idiom, but it means you cant have it both ways. Blizzard claims that we cant play High Elves because they're supposedly very rare, and they arent unique enough to be their own race. Yet Blizz keeps using them to populate Alliance cities, and integrating them into the story in both major and minor events. Such as the High Elves sending an army to liberate Suramar.

They could go with "We simply don't want to make high elves a playable option". That would fly like a led balloon with a part of the player-base. So they tried to dress it up. Not saying the dress up actually worked, but I think this is pretty much it. Currently the dev team is adamant in not wanting to add High elves. No lore justification will convince them otherwise at this point in time.

And as was said, it's their cake. If they don't want high elves in their cake so be it.

[Black Goat]

Its a silly idiom, but it means you cant have it both ways. Blizzard claims that we cant play High Elves because they're supposedly very rare, and they arent unique enough to be their own race. Yet Blizz keeps using them to populate Alliance cities, and integrating them into the story in both major and minor events. Such as the High Elves sending an army to liberate Suramar.

Speaking of cake, here's an analogy. Imagine if instead of elves, we were arguing over spices, and Blizzard was a bakery. Lets say, High Elves are Sugar, and Blood Elves are Stevia. Stevia is made from Sugar, but its not real Sugar. Blizzard refuses to sell their customers deserts made with Sugar, because they claim Sugar is indistinguishable from Stevia, and its super rare. But holiday after holiday, Blizzard keeps baking lots of deserts made with the supposedly rare Sugar and Stevia, but they refuse to sell the deserts made with Sugar. Then in response to the high demand for Sugar, they release Sweet-N-Low as a compromise nobody asked for. We want real Sugar. Stevia and Sweet-N-Low will never be Sugar not matter how much they yell.

I understood the idiom perfectly fine. It just doesn't apply well when you're talking to the entity responsible for baking said cake. But I know you meant it in light, good faith.

The repeating cycle I see where we all come back to the same point is the reference about the population of High Elves. Maybe it's a good reason to some, and not so good to others. I play Horde, so I've seen like... 2 High Elves the entire time I've played WoW, and probably mistook countless others for Blood Elves.

I think the population statement was a cop-out. I think the real, logical reason is that they are, in fact, too similar to Blood Elves. Blizzard doesn't want identical races on each side, differed only by their eye color. In response, some people in this thread said to give High Elves customization options like tattoos and markings. That would effectively make them superior to their Horde counterparts, which would not have customization options. No matter what scenario I can come up with, one faction will suffer from the outcome.

Some of you write-off faction identity as if it doesn't matter, that's your rite to have an opinion. But some of us don't, which is my rite to have an opinion. I think Blizzard perfectly understands that the Horde playerbase comprises most of the people who play WoW, and doesn't want to risk making waves. It's better to have the small population of vigilant people who want High Elves to remain upset than risk upsetting 3x, 4x, or 10x as many people by caving in to the demands.

It's the lesser of two evils, and I feel like it's quite evident to see if you aren't 100% closed-off and biased.

[Aldo Hawk]

Extra customization for HE doesn't mean that BE can never have more in the future.

I would love to have Sin'dorei styled tatoos and proper beards. My friend, who is also a 'diehard' Blood elf player, got kinda dissapointed when Void elves got beards before us.

I think there has to be a limit in which player dissatisfaction has to be taken into the table. Since if they were doing changes and adding into the game through not upsetting players... They would have not added many things or changed many others.

Who likes LFR? No PvP vendors? Timegated flying?

Did everybody got sattisfied by the playable character revamp of WoD? Every AR and base race added into the game ever? Class changes?

Player dissatisfaction is not that important, seriously. Many things have been done despite the fact players could react bad to it.

[The Silver Covenant]

Completely baffling that a year later people are still frothing at the mouth for playable High Elves.

It's actually been 15 years since World of Warcraft launched, when everybody still expected High Elves/Blood Elves to be part of the Alliance one day, and 12 years since TBC's launch. So it's been over a decade that people have been "frothing at the mouth for playable High Elves." It's because they're supposed to be an Alliance race, and many RTS-era customers still expect the source of their fandom to become playable.

Just accept it, it's never going to happen.

No. It will happen.

[Strippling]

Its a silly idiom, but it means you cant have it both ways. Blizzard claims that we cant play High Elves because they're supposedly very rare, and they arent unique enough to be their own race. Yet Blizz keeps using them to populate Alliance cities, and integrating them into the story in both major and minor events. Such as the High Elves sending an army to liberate Suramar.

The high elves accompanied the Kirin Tor in liberating Suramar. They're not quite the force you seem to think they are. Also, almost anytime we see high elves it's in direct correlation with blood elves. Their stories are connected.. because they are the same people. Hence why blizzard have affirmed that high elves would blur faction lines.. they're already playable.

[The Silver Covenant]

The high elves accompanied the Kirin Tor in liberating Suramar. They're not quite the force you seem to think they are. Also, almost anytime we see high elves it's in direct correlation with blood elves. Their stories are connected.. because they are the same people. Hence why blizzard have affirmed that high elves would blur faction lines.. they're already playable.

Faction lines were blurred when Blood Elves were put with the Horde instead of the Alliance like every then-fan expected them to be. The reason people ask to play High Elves is because Blizzard made a faction balance decision and threw away the narrative they'd used to create fans of Warcraft.

A major part of the Alliance's iconic identity isn't playable in World of Warcraft. The requests will continue indefinitely until High Elves are playable.

[Black Goat]

It's actually been 15 years since World of Warcraft launched, when everybody still expected High Elves/Blood Elves to be part of the Alliance one day, and 12 years since TBC's launch. So it's been over a decade that people have been "frothing at the mouth for playable High Elves." It's because they're supposed to be an Alliance race, and many RTS-era customers still expect the source of their fandom to become playable.

No. It will happen.

I applaud your conviction.

I can't deny the fact that Blizzard may have strategically made Blood Elves move to the Horde for financial gains. But I will ask this in return, what makes you think the Alliance players are the only ones deserving of their fantasy being fulfilled? Was it ever etched in stone somewhere that the Thalassian Elf archetype would remain Alliance based? What makes them undeserving of an Elven race? More specifically, the High Elves?

Your user name and statements reflect where you stand on the issue, but I can't help but think your reasoning and logic only makes sense to you because you discount the Horde players. It's as if you've convinced yourself that the Horde players are somehow not deserving of the story Blizzard chose for their game.

If it hasn't happened in so many years, I think there's reason to believe it never will. But who knows, there's always financial gains to be made in a time of crisis.

[Strippling]

Faction lines were blurred when Blood Elves were put with the Horde instead of the Alliance like every then-fan expected them to be. The reason people ask to play High Elves is because Blizzard made a faction balance decision and threw away the narrative they'd used to create fans of Warcraft.

A major part of the Alliance's iconic identity isn't playable in World of Warcraft. The requests will continue indefinitely until High Elves are playable.

You should play WCIII.

[Aldo Hawk]

Faction lines were blurred when Blood Elves were put with the Horde instead of the Alliance like every then-fan expected them to be. The reason people ask to play High Elves is because Blizzard made a faction balance decision and threw away the narrative they'd used to create fans of Warcraft.

A major part of the Alliance's iconic identity isn't playable in World of Warcraft. The requests will continue indefinitely until High Elves are playable.

Please, don't be so unreasonable. Blood elves, the people who are former High elves, left the Alliance and became kind of neutral (if not hostile) to everyone.

Then they released TbC and took that part of the lore into the horde. And there is nothing wrong with it.

This is a small bit of dev explanation on it: https://twitter.com/Xelnath/status/1...429662208?s=20

Yes, 'aesthetic diversity' is another way of depicting 'putting a pretty race on the horde'. However, there were more reasons than that.

What does have merit is to acknowledge that Blizzard still added High elves to the Alliance when WoW released and still do to this day and maybe for the future. That's what you should care about. Not the Blood elves. Who are Horde and have nothing to do with the Alliance and vice versa when speaking about High elves.

[Grythletubs]

Faction lines were blurred when Blood Elves were put with the Horde instead of the Alliance like every then-fan expected them to be. The reason people ask to play High Elves is because Blizzard made a faction balance decision and threw away the narrative they'd used to create fans of Warcraft.

A major part of the Alliance's iconic identity isn't playable in World of Warcraft. The requests will continue indefinitely until High Elves are playable.

Or until high elves are dead.

The issue with people who argue against high elves is that high elves exist and are part of the alliance. It's a fact that's not arguable regardless of the walls of text arguing semantics or claiming that blood elves somehow erase their existence.
As long as those high elves remain alive, and part of the alliance (as they have been for 3000 years), people will keep requesting them and they're easily the most valid requested race by far.

[Alixie]

Hence why blizzard have affirmed that high elves would blur faction lines.. they're already playable.

Besides Pandaren bunking that claim, the fact that High Elf NPCs populate Alliance cities and often show up in important story lines for the past 15 years didnt "blur" any lines? They most often show up to antagonize Blood Elves, and that doesnt bother you? Or are you just pretending Vereesa and her fraction doesnt exist? When you get quests to kill High Elves, you are utterly confused and think "Why am I killing Blood Elves?"

The time to cry about High Elves blurring the fraction lines was fifteen years ago before they added all of that High Elf stuff from Vanilla to BFA. Gaslighting supporters just hurts your argument.

[FlubberPuddy]

What does have merit is to acknowledge that Blizzard still added High elves to the Alliance when WoW released and still do to this day and maybe for the future. That's what you should care about. Not the Blood elves. Who are Horde and have nothing to do with the Alliance and vice versa when speaking about High elves.

high elves exist and are part of the alliance. It's a fact that's not arguable regardless of the walls of text arguing semantics or claiming that blood elves somehow erase their existence.
As long as those high elves remain alive, and part of the alliance (as they have been for 3000 years), people will keep requesting them and they're easily the most valid requested race by far.

the fact that High Elf NPCs populate Alliance cities and often show up in important story lines for the past 15 years didnt "blur" any lines? They most often show up to antagonize Blood Elves, and that doesnt bother you? Or are you just pretending Vereesa and her fraction doesnt exist? When you get quests to kill High Elves, you are utterly confused and think "Why am I killing Blood Elves?"

The time to cry about High Elves blurring the fraction lines was fifteen years ago before they added all of that High Elf stuff from Vanilla to BFA.

All of this, from each of you. High Elves still exist today as part of the Alliance. As long as that holds true, then requests for them are valid. Regardless of whether they actually make it into the game or not.

they're easily the most valid requested race by far.

And not just most valid, but even the most popular. Another Alliance AR has yet to reach the levels of popularity that High Elves have always held (and still do).

For instance I wager, even if everyone that wanted High Elves stopped asking for them right this moment, you won't see any other Alliance Race request reach the levels of support High Elves have today. That's a phenomenal achievement in itself.

[Obelisk Kai]

I never thought I'd like playing something more than the warrior. I played a gnome, troll, and later a blood elf warrior all the way till about now, but after missing most of Pandaria, I gave the monk a whirl and holy crap, was it ever fun!

My troll monk gave me a reason to want to tank nearly 100% of the time. I mean, talk about legitimate aggro... who wouldn't get pissed if you threw a keg at their face!? lol

Never really enjoyed the Monk tanking spec. Wanted the artifact skin from the mage tower though, even though I didn't have a clue to play Brewmaster. Decided to teach myself how to tank on a Monk by doing the mage tower challenge. Took a hundred goes but I got on try one hundred.

Decided I still didn't like it and have stuck with tanking on my Death knight since.

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Do you know what "kind of" mean? If I say "'A' kind of is 'B'", does that mean 'A' is the exact same thing as 'B'?

Consider the gist of his entire answer was explaining that Blood Elves are High Elves. As he goes on and gets into the question, the mild restraint vanishes and he becomes forthright. He boiled down the high elf trope to it's essentials...

'If what you want to be is a fair skinned, light-blonde haired, tall, majestic elf...that is a blood elf and giving that race directly to the Alliance would have blurred a lot of the lines between the two factions

Remember, the question asked why Void Elves were chosen over High Elves. Here, Ion makes clear they see no distinction between Blood Elves and High Elves and equates giving the Alliance High Elves with giving the Alliance Blood Elves, which is internally consistent as Blood Elves and High Elves are the same race.

Finally of course, restraint collapsed entirely and he got just a little bit snarky with his 'the Horde is waiting for you' line. Again, a statement of truth as if you do want to play a traditional high elf, the Blood Elves of the Horde are available and if you cannot stomach the Horde, the Void Elf variant is available to the Alliance.

Now, your counter-point is that at the very opening of the statement he used the words 'kind of'. As I stated, there is a certain nuance in the use of the phrase 'kind of' when you wish to deliver a harsh truth, it is a way of slightly softening the blow. I find focusing on one little part of the totality of the answer as an attempt to make it seem that he was saying something in complete opposition to the fundamental point he was making either dishonest or blinkered.

They will not give the Alliance high elves as they consider high elves playable as Blood Elves, and to give the Alliance high elves undermines the boundary between the two factions.

No. That's an entirely objective judgment. No bias, no agenda.

You are a biased fan with an agenda. Your bias is towards playable Alliance high elves. Your agenda is to see them playable. You are therefore predisposed to ignore or twist evidence contrary to that agenda to further your aims. The above focusing on the words 'kind of' whilst ignoring the totality of the answer are ample proof of this.

High elves exist. They are simply not playable. Your entire shpiel about "blood elves are high elves" would have some merit if there were no high elves left alive in the world and the pro-high elf community was trying to demand back a race that was removed. But that's not the case. We have high elves alive and well around the world. In Dalaran, in Outland, in Stormwind, in Boralus, etc.

High Elves exist in many places. Most of them call themselves Blood Elves. Blood Elves are a playable Horde race. What you are doing is confusing race with political terminology. Most High Elves live in Quel'thalas and call themselves Blood Elves and they are Horde aligned. Some High Elves live in Dalaran and still call themselves High Elves. Some High Elves live in Shattrath as the Scryer faction but are non Horde Blood Elves.

Are Scryers allied race material? They aren't part of the Horde after all, they have their own organization and they live in an entirely separate city, conditions which also apply to the Silver Covenant.

(1) In other words: "they have antlers instead of horns, that's it."
(2) And yet they basically still have the same culture. Same "earthmother", same buildings, etc.

Yet there IS a physical difference that allows Highmountain Tauren to be presented as a Tauren variant. Alliance High Elves do not have that, they are identical to Blood Elves.
The cultural and thematic similarities are not relevant when it comes to Hightmountain Tauren and Tauren. Or Dark Iron Dwarves and Dwarves. Or Lightforged Draenei and Draenei. Or Mag'har Orcs and Orcs. The reason those groups have less differences is because each of those pairings are on the same faction as their parents. They do not threaten the integrity of the narratives of their parent races, they complement them.

Nightborne and Void Elves are the only races whose parents are on the other faction. They are also the races who have suffered the most extreme variation from their parents. This is not coincidental, this is clearly Blizzard putting in a little bit more effort on those two races because they are made available to the other faction.

Nightborne are city dwelling, magic using arcane elves which is almost diametrically opposed to the arboreal, druidic Night Elves.

Void Elves are shadow infused thalassian Elves which contrasts with the light infused thalassian Elves of the Blood/High Elves. Given the division between light and shadow is so fundamental to Warcraft lore that their collision was used as their explanation for the beginning of the universe, it places Void Elves and Blood/High Elves in direct opposition.

You attempt to minimize the differences between Allied races and their parents to prove that Alliance High Elves are possible. The flaw in your logic of course is that Blood Elves and Alliance High Elves are identical beyond ideology. You can attempt to minimise the differences between all those Allied races and their parents because those differences actually exist. You cannot do that with Alliance High Elves and Blood Elves because there are no differences to work with. Even the fabled blue eye colour is just another mutable characteristic all thalassian elves share and it is subject to change rather than being an irrevocable, fundamental characteristic.

You mean "by your failure to accept the evidence provided to you".

You rely on the crutch of political differentiation as your go to answer. Blizzard has provided us with the evidence to know that is not enough.

Those dastard "high elfers", using truth! Oldest trick in the book!

As stated, you are not using truth. You are pretending what I am saying is solely my opinion. When it is a case of dueling opinions, how do you divine truth? You use evidence. Actual evidence. Developer word of god and in game event. Based on the evidence I present, objectively my opinion trumps yours because I can back mine up. Ignoring the facts and then restating your opinion is not using truth, it is demonstration a determination not to accept the reality of the situation...

Politics are enough, now that it's been demonstrated that different silhouettes are no longer a necessity.

And the above line amply demonstrates that determination not to accept the reality of the situation because every single part of it is disprovable by either developer word of god or in game event.

Eye color is an actual physical difference. But other than that, there is no physical differences between void elves and blood elves that are in any way meaningful.

In the past few years the eye colours of most high elves shifted from blue to green. Among some it has now shifted from green to gold. Are green eyed Blood Elves and golden eyed Blood Elves separate races?

Thalassian eye colour is mutable, dependent upon magical ambience. It is not a fundamental physical characteristic if it can be changed so easily.

Void Elves now have a unique skin palette, unique hair colours and some even have tentacles that reflect their new void based powers. These are meaningful differences. These are the differences which allowed Blizzard to make Void Elves an Allied race. Alliance High Elves are not an Allied race, and the fact they are identical to Blood Elves is the cited reason why they are not an Allied race. The existence of Void Elves as an Alliance Allied race is evidence all by itself that the differences between Void Elves and Blood/High Elves is meaningful.

That you argue against this, and yet seemingly argue the differences between Blood Elves and Alliance High Elves are profound enough that the later is actually a viable candidate, again demonstrates that you are biased fan with an agenda with a determination not to face the reality of the situation.

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All of this, from each of you. High Elves still exist today as part of the Alliance. As long as that holds true, then requests for them are valid. Regardless of whether they actually make it into the game or not.

How can it be valid when they flunk the one explicit criteria Blizzard has set, the one criteria that common sense tell us exists.

A race that is already in the game will not be added to the game a second time.

I get that the entire playable High Elf movement relies upon denying the truth that as Blood Elves and High Elves are the same race because to accept they are the same race undermines the entire case, but you can't expect

And not just most valid, but even the most popular. Another Alliance AR has yet to reach the levels of popularity that High Elves have always held (and still do).

For instance I wager, even if everyone that wanted High Elves stopped asking for them right this moment, you won't see any other Alliance Race request reach the levels of support High Elves have today. That's a phenomenal achievement in itself.

And yet as the CM response revealed

While 'Every voice matters' is one of our Core values, and we value people voicing their opinions, that doesn't mean we have to agree with them. It is quite literally impossible to please everyone.

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The size of the demand is irrelevant if it is something they don't want to do, if they truly believe it will harm the game. Undermining the boundary between the Alliance and the Horde falls into this category.

[Strippling]

Besides Pandaren bunking that claim, the fact that High Elf NPCs populate Alliance cities and often show up in important story lines for the past 15 years didnt "blur" any lines? They most often show up to antagonize Blood Elves, and that doesnt bother you? Or are you just pretending Vereesa and her fraction doesnt exist? When you get quests to kill High Elves, you are utterly confused and think "Why am I killing Blood Elves?"

The time to cry about High Elves blurring the fraction lines was fifteen years ago before they added all of that High Elf stuff from Vanilla to BFA. Gaslighting supporters just hurts your argument.

Firstly, Pandaren were introduced as neutral... so they're not comparative at all. In the case of high elves, the main high elven society has been playable on the Horde since TBC. So, implementing playable alliance high elves would turn a race playable on the Horde de facto neutral. Using the Pandaren excuse is apples to oranges.. it's not comparative in the slightest.


Secondly, your comment "high Elf NPCs populate Alliance cities and often show up in important story lines" is a bit of a stretch. Replace the word 'often' with 'occasionally'.

Thirdly, this is Blizzard's game and they've announced that high elves would blur the faction lines they want to maintain. So I'm not sure on what grounds you think the argument is over?

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For instance I wager, even if everyone that wanted High Elves stopped asking for them right this moment, you won't see any other Alliance Race request reach the levels of support High Elves have today. That's a phenomenal achievement in itself.

The official high elf petition has less than 700 signatories.. hardly a 'phenomenal achievement'.

What is a phenomenal achievement is the classic WoW petition, which reached close to 300,000 signatories.

[elbleuet]

The official high elf petition has less than 700 signatories.. hardly a 'phenomenal achievement'.

Firstly, this petition is official only for you and everyone else except you actually doesn't care about it. So please stop bringing it up on the table every time.
As a High elf fan, I didn't sign it, and never will because given Blizzard usually never pays attention to feedback and/or do the exact opposite, it will never pays attention to an unofficial petition.

On the contrary, on the OFFICIAL WoW forums, playable high elves have been the most requested feature since years.

Secondly when you say the High elves accompagny the Kirin Tor, you're wrong.

Vereesa herself states she's sharing the camp with the Night elf army.
If she did accompagny the Kirin Tor, she would be with the Kirin Tor, and sharing its camp.


In that case, the Kirin Tor, also found in the Alliance camp, are accompagnying both high & night elven armies.

[Doffen]

The high elves accompanied the Kirin Tor in liberating Suramar. They're not quite the force you seem to think they are. Also, almost anytime we see high elves it's in direct correlation with blood elves. Their stories are connected.. because they are the same people. Hence why blizzard have affirmed that high elves would blur faction lines.. they're already playable.

Not really, they were there for the Alliance, sharing camp with the Night Elves. Veressa even says she never tought she would share camp with the Kaldorei. And Thalryssa herself says in a questline in 8.2 that both factions helped her liberating Suramar. Not Kirin Tor. The Kirin Tor even got peacekeepers in both the High Elf and the Blood Elf camp, obviously to prevent them to start going at each other.

And for the last there, so Veressa and her forces attacking the Blood Elves is because they are connected? Maybe they are connected such as the High Elves dislike the Blood Elves so much so they got no issue attacking them? It should tell you that they are not so similar anymore.