Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Thalassian Bob]

It is not a High elf. A flimsy costume doesn't change voicelines, classes, -actual- appearance, world interaction, or racials. Nor it gives you a racial mount or armor set.


That NPC may probably be there for utilitary purposes, given the context of the inclusion (wotlk) in which class trainers were much more important.

However, even if it's a genuine warlock HE (the title is summoner), that would make High elf warlocks rarer than
half-elves.


There is more into the situation but opinion of lore does not change anything.

It's your opinion that this part of the lore is stupid. I think the Void elf lore is the stupid one. So what?


Exactly as any other race. This is a non argument that does not point to anything.


Zandalari were not always kind to the horde. Even less the Draenor orcs or the undead.

A faction doesn't have to be perfectly glued together.

I bring up that some high elves do non-lawful, morally grey or downright nefarious things to highlight that some of them might decide to become void elves. Thereby allowing some of the people in here who so desperately want to play high elves to think that their personal Ren'dorei were actually always loyal to the Alliance, went straight from being Quel'dorei to Ren'dorei and didn't do the back-and-forthing that the Sin'dorei-origin void elves did.

I get the impression there isn't much point in attempting to rebut or discuss your other points cos your stance seems pretty all or nothing on the subject.

[The Silver Covenant]

Thereby allowing some of the people in here who so desperately want to play high elves to think that their personal Ren'dorei were actually always loyal to the Alliance, went straight from being Quel'dorei to Ren'dorei and didn't do the back-and-forthing that the Sin'dorei-origin void elves did.

This requires too much mental gymnastics and headcanoning of something that doesn't explicitly appear in-game. Plus, Void Elves aren't Quel'dorei who go all void-y during combat. They're blue. So they'll never really satisfy the request for High Elves until they get some normal flesh tones and hair choices.

[Thalassian Bob]

This requires too much mental gymnastics and headcanoning of something that doesn't explicitly appear in-game. Plus, Void Elves aren't Quel'dorei who go all void-y during combat. They're blue. So they'll never really satisfy the request for High Elves until they get some normal flesh tones and hair choices.

I'd definitely say that the void elves could use a few more non-tentacle-y hair styles and maybe a dirty blonde hair colour option.

[Chain Chungus]

Mag'har basically prove that High Elves can, and should, become a full-fledged AR. Otherwise, regular orcs should have just gotten new customization options.

[FlubberPuddy]

I'd definitely say that the void elves could use a few more non-tentacle-y hair styles and maybe a dirty blonde hair colour option.

Also a much more ghost white hair color, as well as the black one that one of the Voidrunner NPCs has. So weird that for a race with a lot of contrast, they're missing out on the most conventional contrasting hair colors.

[Aldo Hawk]

I bring up that some high elves do non-lawful, morally grey or downright nefarious things to highlight that some of them might decide to become void elves. Thereby allowing some of the people in here who so desperately want to play high elves to think that their personal Ren'dorei were actually always loyal to the Alliance, went straight from being Quel'dorei to Ren'dorei and didn't do the back-and-forthing that the Sin'dorei-origin void elves did.

I get the impression there isn't much point in attempting to rebut or discuss your other points cos your stance seems pretty all or nothing on the subject.

That can be said for -any- race!

Also, we will -have- to see what is going to happen with Void elves. Danuser's response was vague at best and didn't clarified anything.

And also going by the logic of students learning about the void becoming void elves... That should be happening to any race that can be a shadow priest now.

Void Dwarves, Void Gnomes, Void Humans, Void Trolls, etc... We will have to see what is the thing that is going to happen and it's context and meaning before jumping into any conclusion.

High elves will always be asked as long as they are there. The request would have not last this far if the lore and gameplay would have not shown us any of them in the Alliance post Quel'thalas horde alignment.

[Traycor]

Also a much more ghost white hair color, as well as the black one that one of the Voidrunner NPCs has. So weird that for a race with a lot of contrast, they're missing out on the most conventional contrasting hair colors.

The white hair would look very similar to highborne, especially with the darker skin options.

[Alixie]

Here is what Wowpedia's interpretation is of that interview point (at the time of this post): "The void elves are not recruiting, but they are open to those who share similar interests. Their research has attracted other elves to Telogrus, with both Silvermoon scholars and high elven wayfarers arriving to study the ways of the Void. They are trying to find out if they can reproduce the original process that transformed the void elves.[12]"

What I dont get is why they're allowing Blood Elves to study the void in Telegrus Rift. Magister Umbric says this, "Our ordeal has taught us the importance of great powers being in the right hands. We could not allow the Horde to know the things we know, or to use us as a weapon in their schemes.".

Time and time again we all know that the Horde cant be trusted with dangerous weapons, especially the Blood Elves. Mana bombs, the Divine Bell, Blight, Azerite. So why would the Void Elves help and teach Blood Elves how to use the void? Unless they signed a pledge to defect, what's stopping them from taking what they know back to the Horde and using these new powers against the Alliance?

They dont even need to learn how to use the void. They can pick up secrets and weaknesses (and intel from the Alliance) from their time studying in Telegrus.

[Ielenia]

What I dont get is why they're allowing Blood Elves to study the void in Telegrus Rift. Magister Umbric says this, "Our ordeal has taught us the importance of great powers being in the right hands. We could not allow the Horde to know the things we know, or to use us as a weapon in their schemes.".

Time and time again we all know that the Horde cant be trusted with dangerous weapons, especially the Blood Elves. Mana bombs, the Divine Bell, Blight, Azerite. So why would the Void Elves help and teach Blood Elves how to use the void? Unless they signed a pledge to defect, what's stopping them from taking what they know back to the Horde and using these new powers against the Alliance?

They dont even need to learn how to use the void. They can pick up secrets and weaknesses (and intel from the Alliance) from their time studying in Telegrus.

My take on that? Those are blood elves who already left the Horde.

[Obelisk Kai]

An interesting thing yesterday. As I was perusing the Void Elf wowpedia page, I see they updated it to include that interview with Moorgard/Steve Danuser. Frankly, it seems even Wowpedia doesn't believe that interview means Void Elves are able to turn others.

Here is what Wowpedia's interpretation is of that interview point (at the time of this post): "The void elves are not recruiting, but they are open to those who share similar interests. Their research has attracted other elves to Telogrus, with both Silvermoon scholars and high elven wayfarers arriving to study the ways of the Void. They are trying to find out if they can reproduce the original process that transformed the void elves.[12]"

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Void_elf

Another thing I noticed is in their introduction of Void Elves at the top of the page. It used to say something like "Void Elves are blood elves and high elves" and it doesn't include that anymore. Just says Void-infused elves. It appears that the more we're learning about the Void Elves. The more they're simply Blood Elves turned Void, and less appear to have a connection to High Elves.

In a previous post on this topic a few years ago, before Ion, before Void Elves, before any new information beyond the Ghostcrawler quote, the Caydiem post and the Warcraft Encyclopedia, a pro High Elfer returned from the wowpedia in triumph. He had routinely been castigated as having no evidence to support his stance that High Elves were a different group deserving of being made a full race, but now he was ready to show everyone.

He pointed at the Wowpedia page for High Elves and triumphantly stated it listed Dalaran as a racial capital. Only proper races had proper capitals he said. Wowpedia was sanctioned by Blizzard he said, so it was canon. After attempting to point out exactly what Wowpedia was, one anti High Elfer simply logged into a Wowpedia account and changed the capital to 'none', to demonstrate that Wowpedia, as an open source wiki, was open to everyone and not completely objective. This set off an edit war with both individuals changing the capital city between Dalaran and none until finally it settled where it is today, listing their former capital as Silvermoon City.

The point I make here is the same one made there, Wowpedia is an excellent resource for Warcraft information, but it is still a fan maintained resource and thus highly subjective. For example, the passage you quote is not from a Warcraft developer. It was written by an individual who has tagged themselves as 'MyMindWontQuiet'. The edit was made on the 5th May 2019 and was the second to last edit made on this page.

This is a random fan. What do you know of this individual? Nothing. We don't know who they are, what they think or what they want. They have put their own highly subjective spin on Steve Danuser's interview into the Void Elf lore page. There is after all absolutely no evidence that 'They are trying to find out if they can reproduce the original process that transformed the void elves'. That is that individual's highly subjective and indeed highly misleading interpretation, inserted into a Wowpedia page.

[Razuvius1001]

I always had kudos for High Elves as a playable race. While I like Void Elves, the logic of "Population of High Elves lacking for playable race" was just dumb, as we're going from a suposebly underpopulated race, to an EVEN MORE underpopulated race...
But this...Only a moron would continue to reject such a great masterpiece of High Elves in my eyes, as they are nothing like the Blood Elves AT ALL in my opinion, but in fact something much better than Blood Elves or Void Elves...If they need a pair up Allied Race, heh heh…only their old ancient enemy, the Forest Trolls, could solidify this war, and this thread...
I also greatly support High Elf Druids and Shaman...Let's make this happen! This is my endorsement, if those of you want this more than me, you should give yours as well!

[scubi666stacy]

It isn't organic development. Blood Elves were only put with the Horde to get people to play Horde, and all of the lore developments since then — while valid by necessity — are tainted by that fact. Hence people will always ask to play a simulacrum of the iconic Thalassian race as part of the Alliance, especially since High Elves continued to exist alongside Blood Elves the whole time. I personally suspect this is because there are some Blizzard developers who've always found the move distasteful themselves, and do their best to keep true Warcraft alive beyond playable race options.

The request is justified and righteous, and will always be made to Blizzard until High Elves are playable.

I don't care what the marketing reasons have been. It does not matter at all. They could have made red-skinned Draenei / Eredar and given them to the Horde, and it would have worked out fine just as well.

Point is, in the story from WC III to WoW there is a clear break between the Kingdom of Quel'thalas and the Alliance. And after the Alliance sides with the Draenei in TBC, and the Draenei have their grudges with BE in the Outland - especially with NE also being part of the Alliance, the ones who have expelled their Thallassian cousins back then in the first place - it was very clear that the Blood Elves just could not join the Alliance again. I bet, Tyrande would have been adamant in rejecting them, Malfurion probably just the same. In this expansion, a huge chunk of the Blood Elves are present as enemies in the Outland, either working with Naga, or with Illidan, or with the Legion itself. No way the holier-than-though, mighty and righteous Alliance would have taken in Blood Elves.

This is pretty much organic to me. If you tend to ignore all story reasons, it's your fault.

[The Silver Covenant]

it was very clear that the Blood Elves just could not join the Alliance again.

It isn't very clear, especially because the Silver Covenant exists as an exclusively Alliance-flagged group in-game. And before you say they're neutral, they aren't. There are Thalassian elves in the game who aren't faction-flagged to the Alliance and those are neutral, but the Silver Covenant obviously aren't neutral any more than the Sunreavers are.

High Elves are and will always be part of the Alliance mythos. Sorry that you cannot accept that.

[Ielenia]

<snip>

Regardless of the authenticity of the one who made that edit to the WoWPedia, which I find it suspicious as well, mind you, a few things are for certain:
• We have not seen any blood or high elf being transformed into a void elf at all in the game, aside from Umbric's group being captured and forcefully transformed when we rescue them.
• There is also no mention of at all, in-game or in out of the game, of a safe way to convert elves into void elves having been found.
• In contrast, we know lightforged draenei's process can be safely repeated and has been safely repeated in the past.

With those things in mind, the most likely assumption in this case is that a safe way to transform into void elves has not been found yet.

[Obelisk Kai]

Regardless of the authenticity of the one who made that edit to the WoWPedia, which I find it suspicious as well, mind you, a few things are for certain:
• We have not seen any blood or high elf being transformed into a void elf at all in the game, aside from Umbric's group being captured and forcefully transformed when we rescue them.
• There is also no mention of at all, in-game or in out of the game, of a safe way to convert elves into void elves having been found.
• In contrast, we know lightforged draenei's process can be safely repeated and has been safely repeated in the past.

With those things in mind, the most likely assumption in this case is that a safe way to transform into void elves has not been found yet.

The context of the question asked by the author of the article was 'Where do the numbers come from?'.

The answer provided was

“They start out as a small group,” Danuser continues. “But it’s natural as other elves have found out about them — elves who are interested in new sources of magic, power, or opportunities — would see if they could undergo a similar process. They’re not ... recruiting, necessarily, but they’re open to those who show a similar interest.

So, the question establishes the context, where are Void Elf numbers coming from given the numbers seen in game do no match the small group we initially saw.

Danuser's answer begins by saying they start as a small group. This is important, as saying they start as a small group implies they have expanded since that start. The only way they can expand is by recruiting new Void Elves.

So to summarise the question and answer, it's 'where are all the void elves coming from?' and 'other elves are now joining them, expanding their numbers'.

That is the most consistent and logical reading of the answer when grouped with the actual question.

If we were to take your response as fact, then what literally happened was that the interviewer asked 'where do all the Void Elves come from?' and Moorgard replied 'rather than answer that question, let me talk about these other elves who are hanging out with the Void Elves, who want to use Void Elf powers but who are absolutely not Void Elves'.

It is an illogical reading of the question and answer. I maintain there is an agenda behind the refusal to admit the obvious, that Void Elves can convert other Elves into being Void Elves. That agenda is the pro High Elf agenda, as Void Elves being able to recruit means they aren't going to die off, means that while they are a small, crack squad they can maintain a viable population and means that Alliance High Elves are being turned into Void Elves and thus a High Elf who has never served the Horde is currently an available option should you choose to play your character that way. Those who argue they have a lore rather than an aesthetic based objection to Void Elves would therefore be stuck if they accepted Void Elves being able to convert, as a Void Elf would cover everything they say they want.

[Ielenia]

The context of the question asked by the author of the article was 'Where do the numbers come from?'.

Call it "rationalization" if you will, but what he said doesn't mean that a process has been found, yet. "Recruiting" doesn't exactly mean "transforming". They could be "recruited" simply to help research the void, for one.

We see high elf and blood elf NPCs in the Telogrus Rift, but why do we not see any of them being transformed into void elves? There is not a single iota of information about a "safe way to void-i-fy" being shown in the game.

[Obelisk Kai]

Call it "rationalization" if you will, but what he said doesn't mean that a process has been found, yet. "Recruiting" doesn't exactly mean "transforming". They could be "recruited" simply to help research the void, for one.

We see high elf and blood elf NPCs in the Telogrus Rift, but why do we not see any of them being transformed into void elves? There is not a single iota of information about a "safe way to void-i-fy" being shown in the game.

The implication of his response to the question is that they have.

He was asked where do the numbers come from. That means the number of Void Elves. Not Void Elves and friends.

He began his answers by saying Void Elves start as a small group, the clear implication being that if they started as a small group then over time they have become numerically greater.

He then proceeds to talk about the Elves seeking the Void Elves out to learn to wield their powers i.e become a Void Elf. He even talks about how they have come to see if they can undergo a similar process, which given the entirety of the response is explaining why Void Elf numbers have expanded, logically indicates a period of training and an element of risk, as becoming a Void Elf grants great powers but opens the mind to the whispers. There is no 'safe' way to become a Void Elf in other words, it is a calculated risk on each attempt.

His explanation, coupled with the question, are pretty clear. Attempting to argue they are anything but involves stretching words and twisting meanings, as you attempt to do here by arguing 'recruiting' means getting helpers, rather than getting new Void Elves, despite the entire question being about why Void Elf numbers have seemingly increased.

[FlubberPuddy]

The point I make here is the same one made there, Wowpedia is an excellent resource for Warcraft information, but it is still a fan maintained resource and thus highly subjective. For example, the passage you quote is not from a Warcraft developer. It was written by an individual

Yes I indeed understand this as Baiyn pointed it out as well. My response was thus this:

True, true. I do understand it being a 3rd party website and open to its own interpretation. What I meant by sharing that is essentially anyone that is thinking "High Elves are turning into Void Elves" is stating something unsubstantiated and under their own personal interpretation.

Given, as I said in previous posts, that even the big media outlets (MMO-C and Wowhead) when they covered this interview didn't post anything like "Void Elves are turning other elves" or "Elves can be turned into Void Elves if they wish on their own accord" I'm guessing that most places do not see that answer provided by Moorgard to be compelling enough to agree.

That's all I meant, that right now it's still up in the air essentially, with more media outlets erring on the side of "Void Elf pop increased but we still don't know exactly how".

What I'm essentially saying is the bolded parts.

Since you're the only one consistently interpreting Moorgard's statements as "they are able to transform more elves into Void Elves and are doing it" yet no other big WoW media outlets nor informational resources are touting it out the same way, that can only mean most people in the WoW community and media do not consider Moorgard's response as a precisely clear answer.

Btw the WoWpedia can be edited by anyone sure but there's also QA done and edits made when facts or observations don't back up what is posted. You are able to report changes and get them reverted by what I assume are "mods" that fact-check the entries written.

An example of this is when someone tried to maliciously edit out the "recent events" concerning High Elves and were able to get it reverted back, that poster who edited it out doesn't appear to have been correct in their assertion or they were just trying to troll as I haven't seen that person edit anything else afterwards. Just an example.

What this means is that most in the community have probably considered the response too vague to decide one way or the other and thus do not present it as "news" nor "relevation" etc but simply as something stated in an interview when asked about it.

That's how I see it anyway when I look at the community. I haven't seen and still don't see many, if any at all (other than you), expressing that response = more Void Elves are able to be made and are being made.

And I peruse this website, Wowhead, the official US forums, and Reddit r/wow fairly frequently enough that when that interview came out and since then to be accurate of my experience regarding the major media sources and community congregations.

I can't speak for anyone else though, just what I've so far observed!

- - - Updated - - -

Note that I am not saying you are incorrect in your interpretation Obelisk.

[Aldo Hawk]

If we were to take your response as fact, then what literally happened was that the interviewer asked 'where do all the Void Elves come from?' and Moorgard replied 'rather than answer that question, let me talk about these other elves who are hanging out with the Void Elves, who want to use Void Elf powers but who are absolutely not Void Elves'.

How can something fly in front of your face so loudly and still not notice it? If there is a way to transform into Void elf, it will not be because they have students learning. If that is the case then any void version of any race that has shadow priests in their ranks is to be expected.

Do you want to talk about 'agendas'? What about the 'agenda' of wanting others to conform with something that is clearly not what they want? And no, a Void elf is not a High elf. They would have to wipe the existence of High Elves for people to not ask for them again. All your bullshit just deflates while HE are on existence.

Buying into bullshit to support something is scummy. You are one of few who believe on that interpretation of Moorgard's non-answer. We already know what it is about. Don't grasp more straws on it, it's disgusting.

[FlubberPuddy]

The white hair would look very similar to highborne, especially with the darker skin options.

Void Elves look the closest we have right now to Vampires with their pale skin tones. They should get the white hair so I can live my Kain fantasies in-game





EDIT: wooo another 1k posts, another pic change