1. #11201
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    snip
    Enough, i can't care anymore about answering these long posts.

    Anyone with the least amount of wow lore knowledge, wanting to learn about it and having a non egotistical point of view will see through your logical traps.

    That's why i took the bother to do it, for lurkers out the fence. I think it has been enough at this point.

    You have just constantly proven that this crusade is just about protecting your selfishness about Blood elves.

    I'm open to discuss anything with anyone else.

  2. #11202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    Enough, i can't care anymore about answering these long posts.

    Anyone with the least amount of wow lore knowledge, wanting to learn about it and having a non egotistical point of view will see through your logical traps.

    That's why i took the bother to do it, for lurkers out the fence. I think it has been enough at this point.

    You have just constantly proven that this crusade is just about protecting your selfishness about Blood elves.

    I'm open to discuss anything with anyone else.
    I have continually challenged you to do more than put forward your own opinion or attack existing evidence.

    Instead you have doubled down on attacking existing evidence and exalted your own opinion as if that would prove anything.

    I regard your inability to effectively rebut my charges against your contributions, and your desire now to stop speaking about it, as an acknowledgement that you simply do not have the evidence to back up your opinions and prove me wrong.

    And yes, logical traps. How did you describe those 'logical traps' again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    The problem with your stance is that you are pretty much whiteknighting statements just because devs said them even after pointed out how tattered those statements can be.
    That's right. Listening to the developers and taking them at face value. What an insidious web I have woven indeed.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    "If you want to be a fair skinned, light haired, blue eyed elf...sorry, the horde is there waiting for you"

    -Game Director Ion Hazzikostas

  3. #11203
    I'm gonna quote myself and go play wow, there's a pretty sword waiting for me.

    That's because they only care about the lore when it fits them.

    The last example in this same thread was about Half elves.

    If there are not enough High elves to become playable as these people cluelessly tend to say then why is Half elves acceptable?

    Oh right, there is when jealousy and selfishness enters. They don't -accept- the existence of High elves and people asking to play as them because they feel Blood elves would be less special.

    It's sad but that's how it goes. High elves are Alliance and they are a legitimate request as lore and gameplay shows. We also had a dev who liked the idea https://twitter.com/candacerthomas/s...547962880?s=19 and there are more but i don't have any links nor i want to bother searching (basically i had the prior link on my screen while writing this xd).

    It's just how it goes. They don't care about anything else than themselves, 'lore and devs and faction wall here and faction identity there' are just twisted excuses. This request is -based- on the lore of this game.

    Alliance High elves are not an invent of any kind.

  4. #11204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    I'm gonna quote myself and go play wow, there's a pretty sword waiting for me.
    I don't get the point of quoting yourself, although considering I've been accusing you of exalting your own opinion over the developers this seems a weird tactic to go out on...

    And that twitter link isn't working by the way. Looks like if something was there it's been deleted. Do you have any proof she said what she said and if she did say it, isn't it funny it's been deleted now?
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    "If you want to be a fair skinned, light haired, blue eyed elf...sorry, the horde is there waiting for you"

    -Game Director Ion Hazzikostas

  5. #11205
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Isn't it funny it's been deleted now?
    I'm not gonna feed this attitude anymore.

    https://twitter.com/candacerthomas/s...547962880?s=20

    Whelp, thanks for showing everyone else what your participation in here is all about again.

  6. #11206
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    You seem to think the idea that High Elves are not playable is so self evident that to deny it is somehow being rude.

    High Elves not being playable is your opinion. Just as the Earth not being round is also an opinion.
    No. High elves not being playable is a fact, not opinion. If you go to the character selection screen, there is no "high elf" option on the blue banners, "allied race" or not.

    That's like saying "zandalari trolls are already playable" back in the past, before the idea of "allied races" were introduced.

    1.) That developer comment from Ghostcrawler.

    2.) The clarification a post Blizzard Ghostcrawler offered on that comment in regards to High Elves.
    Which are just his opinions, and may not necessarily reflect Blizzard's as a whole.

    3.) Yes, the fact they haven't introduced any neutral races since MOP IS a sign.
    It's not. Especially since there are myriad of other possible factors that you seem to be ignoring.

    4.) The existence of the Allied race system, which gives many of the positives a neutral race also offered (in terms of reduced development costs) while almost none of the drawbacks (a reduction in faction diversity)
    Except "reduction in faction diversity" did happen, with the introduction of nightborne and void elves.

    5.) Ion Hazzikostas stating faction diversity was the reason Alliance High Elves were rejected and Void Elves created.
    I'm not sure those were his words. Can I have the link to that interview, please?

    In contrast against that you again, have nothing to offer. This is a perfect example of the pro High Elf modus operandi, without evidence of your own, attempt to attack or denigrate the mountain of evidence against you.
    Your arrogance aside, you're wrong. The pro-high elf community do have evidence. The fact the "faction identity" excuse has been rendered null and void with the addition of nightborne and void elves, the fact high elves existed since the game's inception and continue to be used by the game developers throughout the expansions, etc.

    Individual high elves are members of the Alliance. The Silver Covenant, the sole organisation of any size, is based in Dalaran which is a neutral state. The Silver Covenant is not a member of the Alliance, but it is Alliance aligned.
    Just like the Knights of the Ebon Blade were 100% Scourge aligned before siding with the Horde and Alliance? Things change. Remember when, in MoP, Dalaran was made Alliance? Who can say the Silver Covenant decide to "officially" (i.e. just a formal announcement) join the Alliance? They can even move out of Dalaran, too.

    Blood Elves are High Elves.
    But not all high elves are blood elves.
    High Elves are playable.
    They are not. No "high elf" option in the Alliance side in the character creation screen.
    Faction diversity is a key part of the game.
    Falsified by the addition of nightborne and void elves.
    Void Elves are a variant created for the Alliance.
    Of blood elves. Not high elves.
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  7. #11207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    I'm not gonna feed this attitude anymore.

    https://twitter.com/candacerthomas/s...547962880?s=20

    Whelp, thanks for showing everyone else what your participation in here is all about again.
    Your link was https://twitter.com/candacerthomas/s...547962880?s=19

    You have now corrected it so that it works, but the initial error was yours.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Your arrogance aside, you're wrong. The pro-high elf community do have evidence. The fact the "faction identity" excuse has been rendered null and void with the addition of nightborne and void elves, the fact high elves existed since the game's inception and continue to be used by the game developers throughout the expansions, etc..

    You are stating the pro High Elf community has evidence. What evidence? I keep being told about the evidence, the huge amount of evidence your community has, but all it ever is is either fan art or an argumentative opinion as to why the devs are wrong.

    You state the faction identity argument has been rendered null and void with Nightborne and Void Elves, but you've said that in the past and frankly this is just another case of substituting your own opinion for fact. You've never adequately explained how Nightborne and Void Elves demolish the faction argument when both are clearly different from their parents and that Alliance High Elves did not fall because they were similar to Blood Elves, they fell because they were identical.

    Similar does not undermine faction identity because similar implies there is still some difference. Identical means there is no difference.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    "If you want to be a fair skinned, light haired, blue eyed elf...sorry, the horde is there waiting for you"

    -Game Director Ion Hazzikostas

  8. #11208
    Quote Originally Posted by Hallowseve17 View Post
    I will never understand why people who are against High Elves would be fine with Half-Elves. Half-breeds are rare in the WoW universe. The source is here in this interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osB0_0G5N8g. And yeah, I get it, there aren't many High Elves left, but Half-Elves... the only four that are canon are Alodi, Arator, Giramar, and Galadin. There is no proof that more Half-Elves exist and it has never been suggested that more exist. And while I may have been swayed recently, what I've said is from a neutral point-of-view.
    Also, Kalecgos uses half-elf disguise.
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  9. #11209
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    You are stating the pro High Elf community has evidence. What evidence?
    Sure. Continue to dishonestly handwave all the evidence away. Makes it easier to claim the other side has no evidence when you refuse to acknowledge its existence, right?

    You state the faction identity argument has been rendered null and void with Nightborne and Void Elves, but you've said that in the past and frankly this is just another case of substituting your own opinion for fact.
    It's not opinion. It's fact. This things "so precious" to "faction identity" like character silhouette and lore have been spread around: kal'dorei lore to Horde, sin'dorei lore to Alliance.

    You've never adequately explained how Nightborne and Void Elves demolish the faction argument when both are clearly different from their parents and that Alliance High Elves did not fall because they were similar to Blood Elves, they fell because they were identical.
    Yeah. Continue to handwave everything that goes against your narrative. Never mind how I explained how silhouettes are important for "identity" and how "exclusive faction" lore has been given to both sides.
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  10. #11210
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Just like you simply repeating it's a "false equivalence" doesn't make it so.
    That's odd, because I've never replied to you about this before... so I've never repeated it. I don't mind helping you be accurate however.. it is a false equivalence (now I've repeated it ). I'll explain under this next quote.

    Um... both are states in which are controlled by the actions and inactions of their creators. And the "faction identity" thing has been irreparably damaged thanks to their recent actions, namely when they added the nightborne and void elves.

    You're ignoring context. And they're not talking about how something "is in their universe" because we're talking about "faction identity", i.e., how each faction looks and feels to the player. In the lore, neither Anduin nor Sylvanas care one bit how their allies look as long as their goals and desires match their own.
    You're trying to equate the word of a restaurant owner and their ability in keeping their place clean and that of world creators that can make something true by simply saying so, that is what a retcon is at face value. A restaurant owner can't make something so by simply saying so, work has to be done. Therefore not equivalent, hence the false equivalence claim.


    Could you do me a favor and remind me what has been their "ongoing answer for over a decade" regarding vanilla servers, please?
    Now this I have indeed repeated myself on again and again and again. And unironically, this is also a false equivalence. The move for private servers was done to protect their IP as well as put millions back in their pocket via two ways:

    1. To minimize the amount of money being spent in legal suits against those hosting private servers, which takes lawyers, lawyers aren't cheap
    2. To increase; predictable, monthly income on their IP via offering their own Vanilla servers

    If the Vanilla petition is anything to go by then that's nearly 300,000 guaranteed monthly subs at $15 a month, so approximately $4.5 million per month. There is a matter of cross-over so it can be less than that as well, seeing as both Live and Vanilla are off the same sub. What do HE's offer in terms of observable income? If the HE petition is something to go by then 700 people signed. Race changing and faction changing are $25 and $30 respectively. So between $21,000 and $17,500 and that's only one time, no guarantees beyond that. And even then that's not guaranteed, because they'll eventually have heritage armor so some people will forego any change and just level up from 30 or whatever the Allied Race level is to get the heritage. (not that it needs saying, but correct me where/if wrong on the figures, playing off of memory)

    This comparison is absolutely terrible. I'll borrow your fond restaurant example. These two comparisons would be the same as equating a small mom and pops restaurant to that of... _________ fill in the blank of which ever massive restaurant that may be near you that spans the nation/s.

    Sure, the mom and pops place might have better food, but from a business stand point, there's no comparison.

    Just because they believe to be in the right does not mean they are not in the wrong.
    And just because you believe them to be wrong or want them to be wrong doesn't make it true either.

    Except the facts are blatant and explicit to anyone who decides to take a look: the "preserve faction identity" reasoning has been rendered null and void by Blizzard themselves when they added the nightborne and void elf allied races.
    And this comes to personal opinion. They may have toed the line, but it certainly wasn't a cross imo. Pandaren are a cross as they're the exact same on either side. Nightborne and Void Elves are different, close.. but different.
    At times, the frequent redundancy and stupidity of these forums, turns me into an argumentative ass.

    To most of you, I apologize in advance. I will attempt to be nicer.

    To the High Elfers out there... If it doesn't workout how you believe/want don't try to paint Blizzard as the bad guy for your own hype building.

  11. #11211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Sure. Continue to dishonestly handwave all the evidence away. Makes it easier to claim the other side has no evidence when you refuse to acknowledge its existence, right?
    Handwave away WHAT? What concrete evidence do you have to support your claims? I note that when I asked for evidence, you simply responded that I was denying it's existence rather than telling me what it is.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    It's not opinion. It's fact. This things "so precious" to "faction identity" like character silhouette and lore have been spread around: kal'dorei lore to Horde, sin'dorei lore to Alliance.
    It very much is an opinion. If Ion tells us Alliance High Elves aren't in the game because they damage faction diversity, but then tells us Void Elves are fine, then you can't state it's fact when it's clearly an opinion.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Yeah. Continue to handwave everything that goes against your narrative. Never mind how I explained how silhouettes are important for "identity" and how "exclusive faction" lore has been given to both sides.
    If you think 'your' explanation counts as evidence there seems to be a misunderstanding on your part. 'Your' explanation is by definition, opinion. It is not evidence. You have clearly latched on to the fact that Void Elves and Nightborne share models with Blood Elves and Night Elves as an attempt to argue faction diversity is ruined. This of course ignores that Blood Elves and Alliance High Elves are identical, which leads to two possible conclusions.

    1.) Sharing the silhouettes DOES damage faction diversity, but it is within a certain range of toleration set by Blizzard and it is offset by the many differences Blood Elves and Void Elves have in terms of aesthetic, culture and yes, lore. Alliance High Elves, because they are identical to a Horde race, are far outside this range of toleration.

    2.) Sharing the silhouette does not damage faction diversity, but Alliance High Elves fail because they are completely identical to a Horde race in every respect.

    No matter how hard you argue this point, Alliance High Elves are always going to be closer to Blood Elves than Void Elves because Blood Elves ARE High Elves and Void Elves are the clear variant and even if you are right that Void Elves deal damage, Alliance High Elves would clearly deal so much more.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    "If you want to be a fair skinned, light haired, blue eyed elf...sorry, the horde is there waiting for you"

    -Game Director Ion Hazzikostas

  12. #11212
    Quote Originally Posted by Yzak View Post
    You're trying to equate the word of a restaurant owner and their ability in keeping their place clean and that of world creators that can make something true by simply saying so, that is what a retcon is at face value. A restaurant owner can't make something so by simply saying so, work has to be done. Therefore not equivalent, hence the false equivalence claim.
    Except "faction identity", in this context, is not about something "in the game", i.e. in the lore. In this context, it's about player perception. In lore, neither Anduin nor Sylvanas care how a potential ally looks in terms of physical appearance.

    No. "Faction identity" is about the player identifying a given faction.Which is why character/race silhouettes are so important in design. Looking at a black silhouette of an orc, you'll know it's Horde. Looking at a black silhouette of a draenei you'll know it's Alliance. But looking at the silhouette of a nightborne you won't know if it's Horde or Alliance. Looking at a void elf silhouette you won't know if it's Horde or Alliance.

    Now this I have indeed repeated myself on again and again and again. And unironically, this is also a false equivalence. The move for private servers was done to protect their IP as well as put millions back in their pocket via two ways:
    It's not a "false equivalence" because "official vanilla servers" has been requested for just as long, if not more so, than playable high elves, and the answer has always been the same: "no".

    You say that Classic servers were added to protect their IP and to make money. Maybe. But then this is your speculation only, considering Blizzard has gone on record to call this a "love letter to fans". But wouldn't the addition of high elves also "make money" for them?

    And just because you believe them to be wrong or want them to be wrong doesn't make it true either.
    Except I have evidence from their own game, their own actions? They're saying "no" but their actions on the game say "yes".

    And this comes to personal opinion. They may have toed the line, but it certainly wasn't a cross imo. Pandaren are a cross as they're the exact same on either side. Nightborne and Void Elves are different, close.. but different.
    They are the same in the important check boxes. They even share the exact same silhouette. You cannot tell them apart before their outline/name/health bar color tells you about their allegiance.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Handwave away WHAT? What concrete evidence do you have to support your claims? I note that when I asked for evidence, you simply responded that I was denying it's existence rather than telling me what it is.
    Because I've already presented it to you, several times, and you continue to ignore it.

    It very much is an opinion. If Ion tells us Alliance High Elves aren't in the game because they damage faction diversity, but then tells us Void Elves are fine, then you can't state it's fact when it's clearly an opinion.
    I can still call it a "fact" because their actions clearly don't match their words. The fact void elves are purple while blood elves are fair-skinned is such a tiny difference, to the point of being meaningless. Silhouette is what matters, and those allied races have the same silhouettes, to the point you won't be able to tell them apart until their health bar, name or outline color gives you the answer.

    If you think 'your' explanation counts as evidence there seems to be a misunderstanding on your part. 'Your' explanation is by definition, opinion. It is not evidence.
    Yeah. My opinion, And surely the fact that basically every character designer in the world has the same opinion is meaningless, right?

    You have clearly latched on to the fact that Void Elves and Nightborne share models with Blood Elves and Night Elves as an attempt to argue faction diversity is ruined. This of course ignores that Blood Elves and Alliance High Elves are identical, which leads to two possible conclusions.
    Skin color is practically irrelevant when defining "identity" in a game with different-looking races, like WoW. If "preserving faction identity" was so paramount to today's Blizzard developers, nightborne would've gone to the Alliance, and void elves would've stayed with the Horde. Clearly Ghostcrawler's opinion, from the tweet you've shown, no longer reflects Blizzard's.

    1.) Sharing the silhouettes DOES damage faction diversity, but it is within a certain range of toleration set by Blizzard and it is offset by the many differences Blood Elves and Void Elves have in terms of aesthetic, culture and yes, lore. Alliance High Elves, because they are identical to a Horde race, are far outside this range of toleration.
    Aesthetic and culture are still the same, especially for void elves. They're still the same Silvermoon elves as blood elves. Same lore.

    2.) Sharing the silhouette does not damage faction diversity, but Alliance High Elves fail because they are completely identical to a Horde race in every respect.
    Skin color is meaningless, as explained.
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  13. #11213
    Thousand Boat bash, and we have two ships full of Alliance-friendly high elves (while the blood elves are yellow neutral).

    I wonder where high elves get their boats. Beyond this holiday's, we have the boats in Icecrown, which are canon. But neither Dalaran nor Quel'danil are coastal cities. Where's the secret high elf island?

  14. #11214
    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    Thousand Boat bash, and we have two ships full of Alliance-friendly high elves (while the blood elves are yellow neutral).

    I wonder where high elves get their boats. Beyond this holiday's, we have the boats in Icecrown, which are canon. But neither Dalaran nor Quel'danil are coastal cities. Where's the secret high elf island?
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  15. #11215
    So why isn't this thread just full of 'If Void Elves can be a thing, High Elves should be a thing'

    That's the bottom line. I'd rather not see half the alliance turn into high elves if they were to make them available but if your argument is 'there aren't enough of them to make a race' after they made VOID ELVES a thing. A splinter group of a splinter group... Idk what to tell you. There is no way there are more void elves than Quel'dorei. It's just not possible.

    The only reason why Quel'dorei aren't a thing is because Blizzard doesn't want them to be a race for whatever reason. It's a shit reason but that's the reason.
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  16. #11216
    Quote Originally Posted by Nuggsy View Post
    The only reason why Quel'dorei aren't a thing is because Blizzard doesn't want them to be a race for whatever reason. It's a shit reason but that's the reason.
    That's pretty much it.

  17. #11217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nuggsy View Post
    So why isn't this thread just full of 'If Void Elves can be a thing, High Elves should be a thing'

    That's the bottom line. I'd rather not see half the alliance turn into high elves if they were to make them available but if your argument is 'there aren't enough of them to make a race' after they made VOID ELVES a thing. A splinter group of a splinter group... Idk what to tell you. There is no way there are more void elves than Quel'dorei. It's just not possible.

    The only reason why Quel'dorei aren't a thing is because Blizzard doesn't want them to be a race for whatever reason. It's a shit reason but that's the reason.
    Void Elves are not a splinter group of Alliance High Elves. They are drawn from both Blood Elves, who have a viable population, and Alliance High Elves who do not.

    Given how low Alliance High Elves numbers are confirmed to be, and that Void Elves can turn any willing adult thalassian elf into a Void Elf, there is no reason not to believe that the Void Elf population now outstrips the Alliance High Elf population. And any Alliance High Elf who has made the transformation of course reduces the population base of Alliance High Elves even further. So it is in fact perfectly possible.

    As for why they aren't a thing, the 'whatever reason' is the one Blizzard told us. That they already are a thing as Blood Elves, a Horde race, and that to give an identical copy of a core Horde race to the Alliance unacceptably blurs the lines between the factions. Keeping the two factions in a two faction based game as distinct as possible is actually a very good reason not to do it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
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    -Game Director Ion Hazzikostas

  18. #11218
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    As for why they aren't a thing, the 'whatever reason' is the one Blizzard told us. That they already are a thing as Blood Elves, a Horde race, and that to give an identical copy of a core Horde race to the Alliance unacceptably blurs the lines between the factions. Keeping the two factions in a two faction based game as distinct as possible is actually a very good reason not to do it.
    Except, as explained numerous times, that explanation is bollocks at best, since nightborne are now part of the Horde, and void elves are now part of the Alliance. The whole "as distinct as possible" reasoning becomes null and void now that exact same silhouettes and animations have been given to opposite factions. "Skin color" is meaningless a distinction.
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  19. #11219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Except, as explained numerous times, that explanation is bollocks at best, since nightborne are now part of the Horde, and void elves are now part of the Alliance. The whole "as distinct as possible" reasoning becomes null and void now that exact same silhouettes and animations have been given to opposite factions. "Skin color" is meaningless a distinction.
    And as explained to YOU numerous times, your personal interpretation of what constitutes blurring the faction lines is just that, your personal opinion, with no basis beyond your grasping need to somehow prove the developers wrong.

    The developers told us Alliance High Elves blurred the faction lines when answering a question about why Void Elves were chosen over Alliance High Elves. Therefore Void Elves are implied to be acceptable, whereas Alliance High Elves aren't.

    You continually put forth the point regarding the silhouette. You continually insist it proves something. You continually refuse to accept the very simple explanation as to why you are wrong.

    To summarise, no matter how close you personally feel Void Elves are to Blood Elves, Alliance High Elves are identical to Blood Elves. There IS a level of difference regarding Void Elves that Alliance High Elves do not possess and can never possess. And if there is point at which similar becomes too similar and therefore unacceptable, Void Elves are on one side of it and Alliance High Elves are on the other.

    You argue that skin colour is a meaningless distinction. Numerous pro High Elfers agitating for 'high elf' like customization on Void Elves implicitly disagree. Skin colour differentiation has also been used by Blizzard on five of the eight existing Allied races, so far from being meaningless it is in fact a tool Blizzard reaches for to provide a necessary level of distinction between an Allied race and it's parent. Mag'har Orcs in fact are the result of a many year long request from fans for the ability to play a brown skinned Orc, and it is the different skin tones of the Mag'har which are the obvious differentiating factor between them and ordinary Orcs.

    Attempting to rule out skin colour as a meaningful distinction is therefore a laughable argument. You are attempting to do so, in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, because it is so blatantly obvious that it is a meaningful distinction in the context of new Allied races.

    You ignore the differences in lore between Void Elves and Blood Elves, particularly how Void Elves are now imbued by the Void, in contrast to the light which is now sustaining the Blood Elves. That each group is now powered by two diametrically opposed forms of magic is a massive differentiation.

    You ignore other physical changes, such as some Void Elves sprouting actual tentacles as a result of their connection to the Void.

    You ignore the fact that every Void Elf, regardless of class, is able to wield the powers of Void as expressed by their racials that allow them abilities not open to Blood Elves such as short ranges teleports and manifesting an even strong void form.

    And by ignoring all these differences, and latching onto the fact that they share a model with Blood Elves, you expect to convince us that the Void Elves have destroyed the faction wall?
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    "If you want to be a fair skinned, light haired, blue eyed elf...sorry, the horde is there waiting for you"

    -Game Director Ion Hazzikostas

  20. #11220
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    And as explained to YOU numerous times, your personal interpretation of what constitutes blurring the faction lines is just that, your personal opinion, with no basis beyond your grasping need to somehow prove the developers wrong.
    My "personal opinion", as how you like to call it, is shared by basically every single artist and developer who works on character design. Seriously, a simple Google search on "importance of character silhouette" will show no article or artist blog not emphasizing the utmost importance of character silhouettes.

    The developers told us Alliance High Elves blurred the faction lines when answering a question about why Void Elves were chosen over Alliance High Elves. Therefore Void Elves are implied to be acceptable, whereas Alliance High Elves aren't.
    You mean Ghostcrawler. Who is hasn't been a part of Blizzard for quite some time. Time enough to allow for a shift in opinion. An idea that is heavily supported by the addition of nightborne and void elves.

    You continually put forth the point regarding the silhouette. You continually insist it proves something. You continually refuse to accept the very simple explanation as to why you are wrong.
    And I will continue to do so. And it does. Because your explanation is based on a shoddy basis. You have the words of a developer who hasn't been part of the team for quite some time now. Words, mind you, said a good time after he left Blizzard. And words from Ion that basically amount to "you want to play as a Zandalari? Well, the Darkspear trolls are there for you." or "you want to play as a Wildhammer? Well, the Ironforge dwarves are there for you."

    To summarise, no matter how close you personally feel Void Elves are to Blood Elves, Alliance High Elves are identical to Blood Elves.
    Which is a reasoning rendered moot when you realize how very important character silhouettes are and how meaningless skin color is for character distinction, in a game about different-looking races.

    You argue that skin colour is a meaningless distinction. Numerous pro High Elfers agitating for 'high elf' like customization on Void Elves implicitly disagree.
    That's irrelevant, since we're basing this argumentation on the words of people who work in the industry, and not talking about players.

    Skin colour differentiation has also been used by Blizzard on five of the eight existing Allied races, so far from being meaningless
    It is meaningless when compared to the importance of character silhouettes and animations. Its lack of meaning becomes even more apparent when you realize that roughly 90% of the armor in this game cover your whole body. You simply won't know the difference between a night elf and a nightborne, or the difference between a void elf and a blood elf, until after their health bar color, outline color, or name color tell you which faction they belong to, and therefore which race they are.

    You ignore the differences in lore between Void Elves and Blood Elves, particularly how Void Elves are now imbued by the Void, in contrast to the light which is now sustaining the Blood Elves.
    And you ignore the lore differences between high elves and blood elves, particularly how high elves decided to stay true to the Alliance, and how they rejected the idea of siphoning mana from living beings just to sate their hunger. A difference that spawned a bloody rift between the two groups.

    You ignore other physical changes, such as some Void Elves sprouting actual tentacles as a result of their connection to the Void.
    A difference rendered null and void when you wear a helmet.

    You ignore the fact that every Void Elf, regardless of class, is able to wield the powers of Void as expressed by their racials that allow them abilities not open to Blood Elves such as short ranges teleports and manifesting an even strong void form.
    Racials. Laughable. "Racials blood elves cannot tap to." Even more laughable. Using character racials to argue racial differentiation is a laughable attempt at argumentation, Kai. Void elves are literal blood elves. Why do they not have the blood elf racials, then? They are just as magically-inclined as their Horde cousins. Why can't any of the races have the human racials of diplomacy and "every man for himself", for example.
    Last edited by Ielenia; 2019-06-08 at 03:57 PM.
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    Update 08/17: I changed how the Bone spec's golem mechanic works, as well as some other minor changes.
    I also did a Bard thing! Questions, comments and ideas, all welcome!
    Update 09/02: Apparently the mods decided to merge my class concept thread with an existing one.

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