https://wow.gamepedia.com/Silver_Covenant
Totally neutral.
You can stop reaching. He stated that other elves are interested in the void, you use the word studying, as well as interested, both legit words to use on this matter, I have used both, you are using both. That you even try to make it so that I confuse his answer with something else when it was part of the quote is silly. It's a non-answer. You are once again trying to refute other peoples argument by twisting the words, both from posters and the actual quote. It is not stated that any other elves than blood elves are turning into void elves, yet. And stop saying it is, when even WoG don't have something that proves that point.
He is indeed talking about Void Elf numbers, he just don't have the real answer to the actual question. It's speculating. Again, it's not shown anywhere that Alliance High Elves are being turned into Void Elves. As long as it isn't, you and the rest of us are speculating.
https://www.youtube.com/@DoffenGG
World of Warcraft stuff
They are not since the Alliance stabbed them in their backs in WC III.
End of story.
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Still they belong to the Kirin Tor, and are there to represent them in the game. They just serve the same function as the Sunreavers, being the "city contacts" for the two factions.
Last edited by scubi666stacy; 2019-07-16 at 02:02 PM.
Thank goodness nobody her wants that. All we're asking is to play a race that has already been part of the Alliance since day 1. We don't want blood elves. We want high elves.
It's funny how people against the idea of high elves seem to think that those that do want high elves apparently want to "rip blood elves out of the Horde" or something, that they'll somehow "lose lore" or something to that effect... when none of that would happen.
It is about the lore.And it's "the biggest red herring" that these players claim it's all about the lore, not the aesthetics.
False. Blood elves are the blood elves of WoW. High elves are the high elves of wow. High elf NPCs are a thing that exists in the game. The high elf group exists in the game.If you truly appreciated the lore then you'd accept that A) blood elves are high elves, and are THE high elves of WoW,
140% irrelevant. Because lore about more high elves can be written in the game. Blizzard didn't just write in a completely new group of tauren back in Legion? The exact same thing can be done for the high elves. And that's just one of many possibilities. Worst case scenario, Blizzard can just retcon their "dying breed" nonsense. Wouldn't be the first time.and B) alliance high elves are a dying breed (unlike the void elves who appear to be growing in ranks) who are becoming more n more 'human' as each year passes, as they're assimilating into human society and slowly fading away.
False. False. And false. Blood elves are your blood elves. High elves are our high elves. They're two separate groups in the game. We have high elf NPCs and blood elf NPCs. Void elves did not "impede on the uniqueness and identity of the blood elves" despite being actual blood elves, not high elves. Yet I don't see you making a fuss about them.Blood elves are our high elves. As such, alliance high elves being playable would directly impede on the uniqueness and identity of the blood elves. That's the reality of this debate, and why alliance high elves are likely to never playable.
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They it's not "word of god". It's merely "I want to call it 'word of god' in an attempt to quell any dissent toward my opinions".
"Word of god" is ever immutable. Never changing. If it can change, then it's not "word of god".
How do you know that those raptors aren't dead (or brain-dead) and just "puppets" to the void magic controlling them? Remember: the void-infusion likely caused rapid-growth on the raptors in those eggs to make them adults. Or how do we know that they're simply not void aberrations that took the shape of those raptors?It shows that they can void-ify beings and not convert them into ethereals.
Uh... no? Not unless you're bringing both down to their simplest, most basic definitions. But then again it would border on dishonesty because then we could say that dancing and walking are similar, since both involve putting a foot in front of the other.The principles of void-ifying a beast and void-ifying an elf are similar, considering we have seen both processes and both involved being bombarded by void energies.
Then you have a profound misunderstanding of what Word of God is in regards to developer commentary. Word of God is not immutable, and I have never claimed that it is immutable. Word of God represents the truth as we know it, provided through developer commentary. If a developer says something in future that proves a previous comment wrong, then THAT becomes the absolute truth in it's place.
Word of God characterizes the game world as it is, not as how you wish it to be. So long as the last word on the subject proves you wrong on what you want or how you interpret events, then you are wrong. Only the developers, as creators of the game, can alter word of god.
This is not a difficult concept to grasp. Whatever they say is true until they say it isn't. How else could it be with a work of fiction they control?
Throwing out possibilities at random rather than going with the obvious one isn't exactly the best form of debate, however this one is easy to dismiss. We know because Horde players have to check in with Gonk, the Ravasaur loa, before engaging in the quest to harvest Void Elf heads.
'The Elven puppets of the Void have come to infest my children with their dark magics' is his response. So they aren't undead, they aren't void-shaped aberrations, and the void elves corrupting eggs does not preclude them from corrupting adults as well.
Umm...yes? As I said, we have seen both processes and the fundamentals are the same. Take a living being, blast it with void energy until it begins to change, stop before it becomes an ethereal.
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But that is what I am saying, that it can change is irrelevant to the debate because at that point why even bother having a debate? They can change what they want, it's their game. What is important is that it is true right now.
The issue is that the more they do on a topic, the harder it is to justify a retcon. Saying the Eredar were always evil beings whose awfulness corrupted Sargeras and then saying they were an advanced civilization that was corrupted by Sargeras was an easy retcon, because there was nothing in game that contradicted this change until it was made explicit by the addition of the Draenei in the Burning Crusade. Who in the end cared that a few lines of text in a game manual that had no other impact had been disregarded?
However, if they were minded to go the other way NOW, and to decide that in actual fact the Eredar had been evil all along and their awfulness had corrupted Sargeras, then while they could do that, and while they have the authority to do that, to do that they would have to go against the past thirteen years of established lore including hundreds of characters, quests and multiple events spanning twenty five thousand years of Warcraft history. In other words, even though they could do it if they wanted, the reality of the game as the game is now would prevent it.
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I am afraid your answer doesn't make sense. You state he is talking about Void Elf numbers, but then argue his response is vague and he doesn't have the answer. I believe you are tying yourself in rhetorical knots attempting to argue that the answer he gave wasn't an answer. Because this guy is the Senior Narrative Lead...the one they sent to talk to Polygon about the Allied races. If anyone knows the answer, he does, and he gave one.
I also refute that I am twisting his words, particularly as I have gone through his answer with a fine tooth comb and shown how the phrasing of the answer supports that Void Elves are expanding their numbers.
I did ask earlier for an explanation of his answer that covered the main points I have raised which are, again
a.) The questioner was asking where Void Elf numbers come from
b.) Moorgard's answer began with the statement that the Void Elves start as a small group, therefore leading the reader to expect their numbers have increased since that start.
c.) He talks about the Elves, not specifying Alliance High Elves or Blood Elves, just Elves, who have sought the Void Elves out to see if they can become Void Elves too (undergo a similar process).
I am still waiting for an alternative that is serious, not a 'he didn't know' or 'he decided to talk about non Void Elf elves when asked about Void Elf numbers'.
"Word of god" is immutable. That's the whole reason for using the word "god" in it. Like Flubberpuddy mentioned in his post above yours, saying "it doesn't change, until it changes" is completely pointless since the entire point of this thread is that things do change.
Um.. sorry. There is nothing "obvious", here. Do put down your bias, please.Throwing out possibilities at random rather than going with the obvious one isn't exactly the best form of debate,
No, sorry. That doesn't mean anything. Because the exact same thing can be said if my hypothesis was true: they are infesting the children of Gonk with the void, regardless if the end result are living aberrations, dead aberrations, or "living but brain-dead" aberrations.however this one is easy to dismiss. We know because Horde players have to check in with Gonk, the Ravasaur loa, before engaging in the quest to harvest Void Elf heads.
'The Elven puppets of the Void have come to infest my children with their dark magics' is his response. So they aren't undead, they aren't void-shaped aberrations, and the void elves corrupting eggs does not preclude them from corrupting adults as well.
Then your point is completely meaningless because you don't know the exact process and are just drawing conclusions from inconclusive evidence based solely on your bias. It really shows how you're reaching because you're ignoring a truck-load of details and particulars in and effort make both process "similar" in nothing but their most basic concepts.Umm...yes? As I said, we have seen both processes and the fundamentals are the same. Take a living being, blast it with void energy until it begins to change, stop before it becomes an ethereal.
Ok, so we know only a handful of Blood Elfs undertook the original process that created Void Elves.
We see in game Blood Elves and High Elves in Telgorus.
We can see in game there are more Void Elves now than that original process.
So is the question whether or not the elves are being converted against their will or voluntarily or what?
What is it you are not understanding here? I don't know if you forgot why we are having this discussion in the first place? The question is wether Void Elves are recruiting Alliance High Elves to be Void Elves. Which was your premise for this argument, that they are definitely doing so, and you base that on his answer. I have, and consistently so, said that there is no proof for that with his answer. It's a non-answer because he didn't answer the question properly, he couldn't tell IF they are recruiting other elves nor could he really say how they would do it. And most likely it is because they don't know, or are not ready to tell us properly why Void Elves are increasing in number.
The other point is that you take that statement as fact for High Elves of the Alliance being turned into Void Elves. And I have said that there is a good possibility that more blood elves and high elves of the Alliance will go in that direction, but we can't say for sure that they will, because we have no dev saying it, it's not told ingame and it's not told in a story outside the game. There is nothing you can use to proof that Alliance High Elves are being turned into Void Elves, and that's the discussion really. It's all speculation, there is no WoG telling us other wise. You using that statement as evidence for this happening, when it hasn't.
Here you go. Why do you really think he says elves and not Blood or High Elf? It's because he either can't say because of the story ahead, or that they don't really have a good answer for that. Like I said at least three times, it could be that there are only more Blood Elves that will become Void Elf, so the group of Alliance High Elves will stay "pure" if you like. You have been using this as an argument against Alliance High Elves as Allied Race, and you base that on a good question, that got answered vaguely. Speculate is all you do, there is no WoG stating that Alliance High Elves are being turned into Void Elf.c.) He talks about the Elves, not specifying Alliance High Elves or Blood Elves, just Elves, who have sought the Void Elves out to see if they can become Void Elves too (undergo a similar process).
Hope this clear things out, because I am tired of stating that there is no WoG showing us or telling us that Alliance High Elves are going to be Void Elves, not yet at least. Is it a possibility that will happen? Sure.
https://www.youtube.com/@DoffenGG
World of Warcraft stuff
Are you aware that Alliance High elves are a thing today and since World of Warcraft released?
You are delusional if you think you have putted any end on any story.
Sorry to say, but I don't find you ready enough to understand what is being discussed in here, you seem to be very proud of discussing something from an ignorant stance. And that doesn't bring anything good.
You don't want to understand ANYTHING about the HE request.
No, stop bullshitting and twisting everything, it's super disgusting.
High elves, those that -exist-. I'm sorry if you can't understand this simple and straightforward thing. Very, very, very sorry.
Also, stop spouting nonsense about the Void elves, using red herring like that is disgusting.
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Yes, that's true, what are you trying to say?
I mean, if you're talking about what's relevant and irrelevant to the debate here, then it's all irrelevant. They're not basing any decisions off of what's said here in terms of implementing Alliance High Elves or not. This is just a place for us poster to discuss.
If you want to talk about relevancy, then similar to how you express that Eredar Blizzard have established have "the past thirteen years of established lore including hundreds of characters, quests and multiple events", then we have that for Alliance High Elves.
Because regardless of being the same "race" (high elf), Blizzard has established for "the past thirteen years of established lore including hundreds of characters, quests and multiple events" that High Elves are a separate group from Blood Elves.
It's only in this recent time that they've suddenly equated "Blood Elves are High Elves" in order to focus on the recently released Void Elves. It appears as an attempt for someone trying to dust their mess under the rug as you see in some cartoons.
Now they have the authority to do this, that's not what anyone is questioning. But the game itself, the game the developers have implemented things into speak of High Elves and Blood Elves as separate entities.
Therefore, if the game they're developing is showing one thing but then they're saying another then incongruity exists and that is no fault of players.
That they recently say "if you wanna play a high elf then play a blood elf" is no different than someone before saying "if you wanna play a paladin you must play alliance" or "if you wanna play a purple tall elf you must play alliance" or "if you wanna play a straight back character you must play alliance" etc etc all in the past.
And this is why Blizzard was heavily criticized even by media members in the community with their initial High Elf response in that Q&A and probably why Alex Afrasiabi later that same year said, "yeah it's possible" when asked if Void Elves could have High Elf skin tones.
Btw if you like to imply that Moorgard's response of "they start small" equates to them recruiting more elves to turn Voidy, then Afrasiabi's "don't give up hope" should surely imply Alliance High Elf fans to not give up the High Elf endeavor aka they're still a possibility in some form.
Because I have yet to see a movement as big as the High Elf movement in terms of anything relating solely to Void Elves. Logically, what else could Afrasiabi's "don't give up hope" emphasis be relating to if not the High Elf request.
Last edited by FlubberPuddy; 2019-07-17 at 07:18 AM.
It is sort of interesting that Blizzard dances around the Blood Elves and the Alliance topic. It's like a mini plot thread that continues with the latest being the BFA Three Sisters Comic where Vereesa as one of her major truths believes the Blood Elves will come back into the Alliance.
Then we have Alleria speaking on one day Silvermoon will be back into the Alliance.
Then there is Umbric with his speech to the Void Elf player that the "Alliance is where our people belong."
Lor'themar is being shown as level-headed in regards to post Azshara Eternal Palace battle, while we have conflict against the Sunreavers and Jaina. Something Lor'themar doesn't seem to care much for or pay attention to. Then he comments how he hopes the sin'dorei will stand with him.
And while this is just the recent things shown in BFA. It is interesting that even when Blood Elves were introduced there was schism within Silvermoon with a few Blood Elves speaking against joining the Horde.
It's been a mini-plot Blizzard has carried throughout WoW, but I wonder if there's any purpose to it.
https://www.youtube.com/@DoffenGG
World of Warcraft stuff
Blood elves and high elves are the same race. The high elf race is already playable on the Horde. So yes, you do want a race on the alliance that is already available on the Horde. In fact, this race is a core race of the Horde.
I'm somewhat reluctant to believe that in most cases. Evidence strongly suggests it's predominantly about the aesthetics. The fact that a lot of high elfers would be happy with high elf customization options for void elves proves this, despite the fact that this would screw void elf lore and also not 'fit the bill' for the particular lore high elfers apparently want. They'd be happy to screw the lore, the identity of a core Horde race and their uniqueness, if they can just make the light skinned thalassian elf they so shallowly want to play.
False. "Blood elves are our high elves" - Chris Metzen. That is a fact. A fact dictated by Blizzard. You are just flat out wrong here, sorry pal.
Alliance high elves are an extremely small/dwindling off-shoot of the main high elven group... the blood elves. Again, in case you missed it the first time, blood elves are our high elves. I can link the video of Metzen saying this if you wish? (p.s he uses those exact words).
A ret-con in any case would directly impede on the Blood elves.
Blood elves are our high elves - Chris Metzen
You can't say it's false then in the next line say that there are Alliance High Elves on the Alliance. It's either "there are High Elves in the Alliance" or "No High Elves on the Alliance."
That quote was said in 2005, lots of things has changed. It has since the Blood Elves actually became playable for the Horde in 2007 happened a lot. These days it is known to be High Elves on the Alliance and lore for them ingame and in books, and has been for 12+ years. It has been retconned so to speak. Because after that quote, WoG shows that there are more to High Elves in the game than just Blood Elves.
Are the Blood Elves High elves though? For sure, it's the majority of High Elf lore in WoW. But there are also lore for Alliance High Elves in WoW. Using a quote like that now is just being nonsensical.
https://www.youtube.com/@DoffenGG
World of Warcraft stuff