1. #11261
    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    Here you go dude:



    If an NPC can tell the difference between a High Elf and a Blood Elf, if you're still unconvinced by something even a WoW NPC knows then I wonder where's the cause for such ignorance to continue.
    It is the matter of armor. Elisande can see that some figures aren't red.
    I give my flesh and blood freely to the Warchief. I am the instrument of my Warchief's desire. I am a weapon of my Warchief's command.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread

  2. #11262
    Warchief FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    It is the matter of armor. Elisande can see that some figures aren't red.
    -double taps post to like-

  3. #11263
    Why does Elisande's pure insult to High Elves matter at all? It was a stinger that they bear a name they aren't worthy of given their actions and human mingling (as we see, the two last notable High Elves left both bore Half Elven children).

    Nobody is saying High Elves don't exist.
    Nobody is saying High Elves aren't somewhat different.

    The issue is they aren't different enough to merit being playable.

    The playable High Elves are the Blood Elves.
    The playable High Elves, now Blood Elves, are Horde.
    The playable High Elves, now Blood Elves, went through a major story arc in WC3: TFT and WoW: TBC to get to this point.

    There is no indication that Blizzard wants to do anything outside NPC or support roles with what remains of Alliance High Elves, as they have done for over 10 years.
    "High Elves....honestly? Spoilers, guys, Blood Elves are pretty much High Elves."
    -Ion, Blizzcon 11/4/17

    "So...basically? Blood Elves kind of are High Elves."
    - Ion, Blizzard Q&A 4/26/18

  4. #11264
    Quote Originally Posted by LowestFormOfWit View Post
    Why does Elisande's pure insult to High Elves matter at all? It was a stinger that they bear a name they aren't worthy of given their actions and human mingling (as we see, the two last notable High Elves left both bore Half Elven children).

    Nobody is saying High Elves don't exist.
    Nobody is saying High Elves aren't somewhat different.

    The issue is they aren't different enough to merit being playable.

    The playable High Elves are the Blood Elves.
    The playable High Elves, now Blood Elves, are Horde.
    The playable High Elves, now Blood Elves, went through a major story arc in WC3: TFT and WoW: TBC to get to this point.

    There is no indication that Blizzard wants to do anything outside NPC or support roles with what remains of Alliance High Elves, as they have done for over 10 years.

    You have forgotten :

    The playable blood elves are the void elves.
    The playable blood elves, now void elves, are the alliance.
    The playable blood elves, now the void elves, have gone through a major story in the Alleria scenario to get to this point.

    The high elves are in the horde and the blood elves are in the alliance, right?

    It's no easier than every thalassian elf keep their true name?

    There is bad faith in the air ...
    Last edited by Frenchvince; 2019-06-11 at 07:52 PM.

  5. #11265
    I am Murloc! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchvince View Post
    You have forgotten :

    The playable blood elves are the void elves.
    The playable blood elves, now void elves, are the alliance.
    The playable blood elves, now the void elves, have gone through a major story in the Alleria scenario to get to this point.

    The high elves are in the horde and the blood elves are in the alliance, right?

    It's no easier than every thalassian elf keep their true name?

    There is bad faith in the air ...
    Not really bad faith.

    A Blood Elf is identical to an Alliance High Elf in every aspect except politics.

    A Void Elf is substantially different from a Blood/Alliance High Elf because of their transformation.

    Void Elves USED to be Blood Elves and Alliance High Elves. They no longer are. They are different. A Void Elf is NOT a Blood/High Elf.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    "If you want to be a fair skinned, light haired, blue eyed elf...sorry, the horde is there waiting for you"

    -Game Director Ion Hazzikostas

  6. #11266
    Warchief FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frenchvince View Post
    There is bad faith in the air ...
    Bad faith and hilariously salty over people making a request for a race they want to play.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by LowestFormOfWit View Post
    Nobody is saying High Elves don't exist.
    Nobody is saying High Elves aren't somewhat different.
    Yet it seems most people don't want to admit one more thing:

    High Elves are on the Alliance and have been among them since WoW released and through multiple expansions.

    The bold is what separates them from idiotic statements like "so there's 1 goblin in SI:7 does that means Goblins should be an alliance AR" and "Horde works with kul'tiran pirates in one expansion does that mean Horde should ask for Kul Tiran AR".

    Which is dumb anyway since ultimately everyone can ask for whatever they wish. I'd like to see people who make those kind of comments go and make a thread based on those kinds of statements with as much supporting evidence as High Elves for Alliance have.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    A Void Elf is NOT a Blood/High Elf.
    And a High Elf is not a Blood Elf.

    Even if Blood Elves used to be a High Elf, or one considers them "a High Elf".

    Fact remains some High Elves are simply that, High Elves. No other names, and remain on Alliance. Those are the ones people want to play.

  7. #11267
    I am Murloc! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    And a High Elf is not a Blood Elf.

    Even if Blood Elves used to be a High Elf, or one considers them "a High Elf".

    Fact remains some High Elves are simply that, High Elves. No other names, and remain on Alliance. Those are the ones people want to play.
    Do we really have to go over this time and time again?

    A Void Elf is not a Blood/High Elf because they got blasted by a tremendous amount of void energy that triggered a physical transformation. There is no equivalence between the physical transformation that separated Void Elves from Blood/Alliance High Elves and the philosophical dispute that separated Blood and Alliance High Elves. A philosophical dispute that has since been resolved by the way.

    In other words, a physical transformation triggered by outside magical intervention is an event of more substance than an argument that hasn't mattered in over a decade in real time.

    Nothing now separates a Blood Elf from the ideal of what a High Elf should be. Light-orientated, fair skinned, blonde haired, magic using, haughty elves. The only differentiating factor is the one you keep citing, that they are on the Alliance.

    That just isn't good enough. Blizzard has told us that isn't good enough. The reason Void Elves exist at all is because a mere political disagreement is not good enough.

    Getting zapped by void energy howerver, is.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    "If you want to be a fair skinned, light haired, blue eyed elf...sorry, the horde is there waiting for you"

    -Game Director Ion Hazzikostas

  8. #11268
    Warchief FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Do we really have to go over this time and time again?

    A Void Elf is not a Blood/High Elf because they got blasted by a tremendous amount of void energy that triggered a physical transformation. There is no equivalence between the physical transformation that separated Void Elves from Blood/Alliance High Elves and the philosophical dispute that separated Blood and Alliance High Elves. A philosophical dispute that has since been resolved by the way.

    In other words, a physical transformation triggered by outside magical intervention is an event of more substance than an argument that hasn't mattered in over a decade in real time.

    Nothing now separates a Blood Elf from the ideal of what a High Elf should be. Light-orientated, fair skinned, blonde haired, magic using, haughty elves. The only differentiating factor is the one you keep citing, that they are on the Alliance.

    That just isn't good enough. Blizzard has told us that isn't good enough. The reason Void Elves exist at all is because a mere political disagreement is not good enough.

    Getting zapped by void energy howerver, is.
    High Elves aren't haughty at all, nor do they come off as Light-oriented as the Blood Elves. Blizzard gave High Elves voiceovers from Night Elves to further showcase this difference in personalities. And idk about you but we don't get plastered with High Elves using Light like the Blood Elves do with their Blood Knights being everywhere.

    High Elves are most often see as Rangers and/or Mages. I'd say more Ranger leaning since the Silver Covenant pledged to help the Hunter Order hall in Legion.

    Sharing fair skin or blonde hair doesn't matter as that's Night Elves and Nightborne share purple/blue skin and white hair so that's a given it's not a consideration.

    We don't have to go over this time and again, everything you quoted from me there is still truth/fact.

    Just because part of a race went from High Elf -> Blood Elf, and some went from High Elf -> Blood Elf -> Void Elf doesn't not mean the same applies in reverse.

    High Elf = Blood Elf isn't a fact nor truth, due to it being proven false by the existence of High Elves on the Alliance. It is not A -> <- B -> <- C. Nor is it A -> <- B.

    Just as a Void Elf cannot unbecome back to a Blood Elf, we have yet to see a Blood Elf go back to being a High Elf. It's a one way trip as far as evidenced by the game. Even Ion cannot bring himself to straight up say "A Blood Elf is a High Elf". Using "kinda" and "pretty much" would be the same as me saying Mag'har kinda are Orcs, or Mag'har pretty much are Orcs.

    The High Elves in the Alliance and the Blood Elves on the Horde offer different fantasies, using any current model of High Elves vs the playable versions of races is silly because when any race becomes playable they are given extra customization options.

    Look at Kul Tirans, Dark Irons, and Zandalari to see proof of this. All these races got model changes / extra customizations once work on their playable versions began.

    Kul Tirans especially, who straight up used the exact same model as playable Humans until they were decided to become playable by Blizzard.

  9. #11269
    Mechagnome Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    Look at Kul Tirans, Dark Irons, and Zandalari to see proof of this. All these races got model changes / extra customizations once work on their playable versions began.

    Kul Tirans especially, who straight up used the exact same model as playable Humans until they were decided to become playable by Blizzard.
    Wait a minute.

    Didn't Zandalari and Kul'tiran received extra customization -on top- of what they had when BfA released?

    Like... They had the new models, but added even further from that.

  10. #11270
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    A Void Elf is NOT a Blood/High Elf.
    Factually wrong. That's an opinion, wich you can have of course. Void Elves are former Blood Elves, wich again are High Elves. A High Elf from the Alliance is neither. This is a fact.

    Void Elves USED to be Blood Elves and Alliance High Elves.
    Where does it say/show that Void Elves also are former Alliance High Elves btw?

    Void Elves are the Alliance playable flavor of High Elves(Blood Elves)at this point. You might go with your fantasy, but that doesn't make it true.
    Zandalari theme ftw! PURE GOLD!

    Horde bad, smash, monkey! Who is a good monkey? You are!

  11. #11271
    Warchief FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    Wait a minute.

    Didn't Zandalari and Kul'tiran received extra customization -on top- of what they had when BfA released?

    Like... They had the new models, but added even further from that.
    Yeah I think tattoos for Zandalari, as well as a new face for the males IIRC. Then for Kul Tirans I think it was either new faces or new facial hair for the males, I didn't really keep up with the KT as much though.

  12. #11272
    Mechagnome Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    Yeah I think tattoos for Zandalari, as well as a new face for the males IIRC. Then for Kul Tirans I think it was either new faces or new facial hair for the males, I didn't really keep up with the KT as much though.
    So of course if they add High elves they will simply copypaste their current NPC models amirite?

  13. #11273
    Warchief FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    So of course if they add High elves they will simply copypaste their current NPC models amirite?
    This is what those against High Elves hope, because they would hate to see the set precedent be followed. So they reduce "you mean a blood elf with blue eyes".

    We could say the same with the Nightborne. "So you mean skinny Night Elves"? Still got added. Clearing sharing the same purple skin tone and silvery eyes just as Night Elves isn't enough to rule them out.

  14. #11274
    Stood in the Fire Pestilent Soul's Avatar
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    Who wants to play as a weak Alliance elf anyways? Rather play a chad Horde elf.
    Personality: INTJ



    “Thinking is difficult, that is why most people judge.”
    – Carl Jung

  15. #11275
    Mechagnome Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pestilent Soul View Post
    Who wants to play as a weak Alliance elf anyways? Rather play a chad Horde elf.
    Don't you wish your girlfriend was

    hot

    like

    me?

    Ah... I could really use a scrunchie... Yeah you heard me.

  16. #11276
    Stood in the Fire Pestilent Soul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    Don't you wish your girlfriend was

    hot

    like

    me?

    Ah... I could really use a scrunchie... Yeah you heard me.
    Personality: INTJ



    “Thinking is difficult, that is why most people judge.”
    – Carl Jung

  17. #11277
    Mechagnome elbleuet's Avatar
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    Nightborne models are ugly, and blood elves are utterly boring.

    But I agree. Night elves and void elves' current situation pale in comparison to that of the Horde elves.
    Both race are homeless, one endured a genocide, the other is a minority among the minority.

    That's precisely why we need a Silvermoon warfront to restore the balance.
    Last edited by elbleuet; 2019-06-12 at 11:30 AM.
    "One day, Silvermoon will stand again on the side of the Alliance, I know it"

    - Alleria Windrunner

  18. #11278
    I am Murloc! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elbleuet View Post
    Nightborne models are ugly, and blood elves are utterly boring.

    But I agree. Night elves and void elves' current situation pale in comparison to that of the Horde elves.
    Both race are homeless, one endured a genocide, the other is a minority among the minority.

    That's precisely why we need a Silvermoon warfront to restore the balance.
    Not everything is about the Elves you know.

    The Night Elves lost their city. The balance was restored with the destruction of Undercity leaving three Horde capitals and three Alliance capitals. Before you counter with Suramar, that is a capital in an abstract sense only as the city is still stuck in the Legion timeframe under Elisande with only a small area being friendly to Horde players.

    That small area is the equivalent of the Void Elves' Tel'rogus. Again, gameplay balance is restored.

    If you are on about story balance, and that somehow the fact that the Horde has two elven cities to the Alliance's zero is unfair, well there is no such thing as that kind of story balance.

    https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ne...ion-favoritism

    Blizzard isn't going to hand over a Horde capital to the Alliance just because you feel aggrieved about how the storyline has turned out so far.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Factually wrong. That's an opinion, wich you can have of course. Void Elves are former Blood Elves, wich again are High Elves. A High Elf from the Alliance is neither. This is a fact.
    Blizzard has defined Void Elves as 'another flavour of High Elf' and 'something like a Blood Elf'.

    As they have also defined Blood Elves as High Elves, stating Void Elves are 'another flavour' means there is a level of difference. This level of difference is expressed in their connection to the Void.

    As they have defined Void Elves as 'like a Blood Elf', that phrasing indicates similarity and not being identical. As they are not identical, they cannot be Blood Elves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Where does it say/show that Void Elves also are former Alliance High Elves btw?

    Void Elves are the Alliance playable flavor of High Elves(Blood Elves)at this point. You might go with your fantasy, but that doesn't make it true.
    https://www.polygon.com/2019/1/21/18...user-interview

    Moorgard was specifically asked where Void Elf numbers come from as it has been pointed out that the numbers we see in game do not tally with the idea that a single small group of Blood Elf researchers was corrupted.

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    “They start out as a small group,” Danuser continues. “But it’s natural as other elves have found out about them — elves who are interested in new sources of magic, power, or opportunities — would see if they could undergo a similar process. They’re not ... recruiting, necessarily, but they’re open to those who show a similar interest.

    Steve Danuser- 'Moorgard' -Senior Narrative Designer

    1.) The Senior Narrative Designer above states that new recruits are seeking out the Void Elves to see if they can undergo 'a similar process'. That 'similar process' does not mean wielding void energies while remaining the same, it clearly means becoming a Void Elf as the initial question posed to Moorgard was

    'There’s just one question: If they come from a small group of Silvermoon Exiles, how are they an Allied Race? Where do the numbers come from?'

    The process refers to the transformation into a Void Elf. It can mean nothing else in this context.

    2.) The numbers of Void Elves in game does not match them being a tiny group of researchers. As a Horde player I have slaughtered hundreds of them across the invasions and during the suicide mission scenario prior to the opening of the Battle of Dazar'alor. There are also rogues, warriors, hunters and monks among the Void Elf forces. The initial scenario strongly suggested the vast majority of Blood Elves participating were magic users of some sort, likely Mages.

    3.) Void Elves have demonstrated the ability to turn other beings into void based aberrations by blasting them with void energy during the Alliance incursion into Zuldazar, specifically raptors in a world quest. This is similar to what happened to the first Void Elves in the initial transformation.

    All evidence supports the idea that Void Elves can convert other Elves into Void Elves and that some Alliance High Elves are being converted.
    There are also Alliance High Elves accompanying Void Elves in Stormwind, and High Elven Wayfarers present in Tel'rogus learning to use the void. The desire to pretend Void Elves cannot convert other Elves into Void Elves is an attempt to keep the Alliance High Elf grievance going, as not only is it argued they aren't the exact elves desired but the inability to procreate means they are effectively doomed to extinction, and a group doomed to extinction can be regarded as a temporary aberration that does not 'fill the high elf niche' on the Alliance.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    [B]Just as a Void Elf cannot unbecome back to a Blood Elf, we have yet to see a Blood Elf go back to being a High Elf. It's a one way trip as far as evidenced by the game. .
    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Quel%27Lithien_Lodge

    The Wowpedia summary is pretty succinct on this lodge.

    "The lodge fell on hard times following the Scourge invasion of Quel'Thalas. It was here that the banished rangers under Renthar Hawkspear took up residence after Grand Magister Rommath's return from Outland; Renthar and his group had dissented against Rommath's teachings on moral grounds. To avoid the nation becoming divided on the issue, as the teachings had been an essential boon to the elves, Lor'themar, now Quel'Thalas' regent, exiled the group south."

    I want you to read that carefully. These Elves were banished to Quel'lithien AFTER Grand Magister Rommath returned from Outland with Illidan's teachings.

    Yet when were the High Elves renamed as Blood Elves? AFTER Kael'thas returned to Quel'thalas from Dalaran. So, Kael'thas gathered the survivors, renamed them Blood Elves and then headed south with an army to assist Garithos. Lor'themar Theron was left in charge of the Blood Elves.

    The rangers who took up residence at Quel'lithien were only banished when they objected to Rommath's teachings. Rommath did not return until after the following had happened.

    1.)Kael served with Garithos and the Alliance for a period of time.
    2.) Kael was betrayed by Garithos.
    3.) Kael and the Blood Elves escaped to Outland with the Naga
    4.) Kael and the Blood Elves swore to serve Illidan.
    5.) Kael and the Blood Elves accompanied Illidan to Icecrown.
    6.) Kael and the Blood Elves fled back to Outland.
    7.) Kael sent Rommath back to Silvermoon with Illidan's teachings.
    8.) Lor'themar exiled those who refused to follow the new teachings on the grounds of national unity.

    So the simplest explanation for the rangers of Quel'lithien is that they did in fact call themselves Blood Elves for a time, but Illidan's teachings disgusted them so much and they found their exile so embittering that once they were cast out they embraced the name to show their rejection of what they felt their people had become.

    But for a time, yes, they would have been Blood Elves. And then they demonstrated just how profound a change that was by easily reverting to High Elf, proving at the end of the day it's just an adjective.

    Void Elves will have a much harder time undoing their skin tone changes, tentacle growths and connection to the void let me assure you.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    "If you want to be a fair skinned, light haired, blue eyed elf...sorry, the horde is there waiting for you"

    -Game Director Ion Hazzikostas

  19. #11279
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Blizzard has defined Void Elves as 'another flavour of High Elf' and 'something like a Blood Elf'.

    As they have also defined Blood Elves as High Elves, stating Void Elves are 'another flavour' means there is a level of difference. This level of difference is expressed in their connection to the Void.

    As they have defined Void Elves as 'like a Blood Elf', that phrasing indicates similarity and not being identical. As they are not identical, they cannot be Blood Elves.
    But they still are Blood Elves who delved into void magic so there is no point saying they are not like you try to here.

    https://www.polygon.com/2019/1/21/18...user-interview

    Moorgard was specifically asked where Void Elf numbers come from as it has been pointed out that the numbers we see in game do not tally with the idea that a single small group of Blood Elf researchers was corrupted.

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    “They start out as a small group,” Danuser continues. “But it’s natural as other elves have found out about them — elves who are interested in new sources of magic, power, or opportunities — would see if they could undergo a similar process. They’re not ... recruiting, necessarily, but they’re open to those who show a similar interest.

    Steve Danuser- 'Moorgard' -Senior Narrative Designer

    1.) The Senior Narrative Designer above states that new recruits are seeking out the Void Elves to see if they can undergo 'a similar process'. That 'similar process' does not mean wielding void energies while remaining the same, it clearly means becoming a Void Elf as the initial question posed to Moorgard was

    'There’s just one question: If they come from a small group of Silvermoon Exiles, how are they an Allied Race? Where do the numbers come from?'

    The process refers to the transformation into a Void Elf. It can mean nothing else in this context.

    2.) The numbers of Void Elves in game does not match them being a tiny group of researchers. As a Horde player I have slaughtered hundreds of them across the invasions and during the suicide mission scenario prior to the opening of the Battle of Dazar'alor. There are also rogues, warriors, hunters and monks among the Void Elf forces. The initial scenario strongly suggested the vast majority of Blood Elves participating were magic users of some sort, likely Mages.

    3.) Void Elves have demonstrated the ability to turn other beings into void based aberrations by blasting them with void energy during the Alliance incursion into Zuldazar, specifically raptors in a world quest. This is similar to what happened to the first Void Elves in the initial transformation.

    All evidence supports the idea that Void Elves can convert other Elves into Void Elves and that some Alliance High Elves are being converted.
    There are also Alliance High Elves accompanying Void Elves in Stormwind, and High Elven Wayfarers present in Tel'rogus learning to use the void. The desire to pretend Void Elves cannot convert other Elves into Void Elves is an attempt to keep the Alliance High Elf grievance going, as not only is it argued they aren't the exact elves desired but the inability to procreate means they are effectively doomed to extinction, and a group doomed to extinction can be regarded as a temporary aberration that does not 'fill the high elf niche' on the Alliance.
    But this is all speculation as of now. There isn't any lore that says they have recruited Alliance High Elves into Void Elves. Yet. So it's all pure speculation. Seeing how you make the point that canon lore is the rule here, what you write is just speculation into the idea. And you as horde player killing the same Void Elves in the same World Quest everytime that World Quest is up doesn't support that there is lots of Void Elves. Same could be said about Alliance High Elves being everywhere but you always bring the point that they are not then. This is a good example of that you can't have the cake and eat it to. It's one way or the other.
    Zandalari theme ftw! PURE GOLD!

    Horde bad, smash, monkey! Who is a good monkey? You are!

  20. #11280
    Highelf = Blood Elf. Thread discontinued.

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