1. #11281
    I am Murloc! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    But they still are Blood Elves who delved into void magic so there is no point saying they are not like you try to here.
    They are transformed. To be transformed means you change from one thing into another. The Nightborne are no longer Night Elves, they were transformed by the power of the Nightwell. The Lightforged Draenei are no longer Draenei, they were transformed by the power of the light. Turalyon is no longer a Human, he is a lightforged Human, transformed by the power of the Light. Void Elves are no longer Blood/High Elves, they are transformed by the power of the void.


    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    But this is all speculation as of now. There isn't any lore that says they have recruited Alliance High Elves into Void Elves. Yet. So it's all pure speculation. Seeing how you make the point that canon lore is the rule here, what you write is just speculation into the idea. And you as horde player killing the same Void Elves in the same World Quest everytime that World Quest is up doesn't support that there is lots of Void Elves. Same could be said about Alliance High Elves being everywhere but you always bring the point that they are not then. This is a good example of that you can't have the cake and eat it to. It's one way or the other.
    It is hard to argue it is speculation when the senior narrative designer states that Void Elves can reproduce and we have High Elven wayfarers in Tel'rogus being very clear about their intentions regarding the void. The only logical interpretation of what you are saying is that while Void Elves can reproduce (as Moorgard confirms), and while Alliance High Elves are clearly expressing a very strong interest in learning to use the void (as shown in game), that for some reason Alliance High Elves don't make that final leap. That does not make sense, and is a suggestion it seems motivated by a desire to pretend Alliance High Elves cannot become Void Elves when there is clearly nothing stopping them.

    As for the comparison between the numbers of Void Elves and Alliance High Elves as appearing in game, my stance with that is as follows. As Blizzard has repeatedly stated that Alliance High Elves are extremely low in numbers, then the repeated appearance of Alliance High Elf NPCs is easiest to explain as the same group of Elves showing up again and again. As the only time Alliance High Elves do appear in anything like decent numbers is when Dalaran and the Silver Covenant is involved, it is likely that the Alliance High Elves we see from time to time are members of the Silver Covenant in a new front.

    Note that I am not saying Void Elves are numerous either. I am saying that their numbers as depicted in game do not match the idea that only a small group of researchers were converted and that those are the only Void Elves ever. Clearly, some of the times we encounter Void Elves were are likely encountering the same group of Elves again we may have previously as they deploy to a new front. Void Elves are a small, crack squad and obviously do not have an equivalent population to many of the other races. But crucially, Void Elves can recruit new Void Elves from the Blood Elf and Alliance High Elf populations. Alliance High Elves do not seem to be able to lure many Blood Elves, as none have ever been depicted in game beyond the Quel'lithien rangers (who are currently all dead). Anyone who was likely to embrace exile in Dalaran rather than serve the Horde or the Blood Elves likely left years ago.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    "If you want to be a fair skinned, light haired, blue eyed elf...sorry, the horde is there waiting for you"

    -Game Director Ion Hazzikostas

  2. #11282
    Mechagnome elbleuet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Not everything is about the Elves you know.

    The Night Elves lost their city. The balance was restored with the destruction of Undercity leaving three Horde capitals and three Alliance capitals. Before you counter with Suramar, that is a capital in an abstract sense only as the city is still stuck in the Legion timeframe under Elisande with only a small area being friendly to Horde players.

    That small area is the equivalent of the Void Elves' Tel'rogus. Again, gameplay balance is restored.

    If you are on about story balance, and that somehow the fact that the Horde has two elven cities to the Alliance's zero is unfair, well there is no such thing as that kind of story balance.

    https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ne...ion-favoritism

    Blizzard isn't going to hand over a Horde capital to the Alliance just because you feel aggrieved about how the storyline has turned out so far.
    I was talking about Warcraft Lore. I particulary don't care about gameplay. And Telogrus isn't a capital. Comparing it with the wonders of Suramar is purely nonsense. But this is you Obelisk Kai.

    Anyway, Silvermoon is already doomed, one way or another. Wether it is by the Sunwell being corrupted and imploding, or the Alliance conquering Silvermoon.
    That Nightborne quest dealing with the Sunwell isn't for nothing for sure.
    "One day, Silvermoon will stand again on the side of the Alliance, I know it"

    - Alleria Windrunner

  3. #11283
    Quote Originally Posted by Pestilent Soul View Post
    Oh... OH!

    i see what you did there, pal. Agree 100%

  4. #11284
    I am Murloc! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elbleuet View Post
    That Nightborne quest dealing with the Sunwell isn't for nothing for sure.
    It was used as the basis for the Void Elf scenario. That was it. Anything beyond that really is speculation.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    "If you want to be a fair skinned, light haired, blue eyed elf...sorry, the horde is there waiting for you"

    -Game Director Ion Hazzikostas

  5. #11285
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    They are transformed. To be transformed means you change from one thing into another. The Nightborne are no longer Night Elves, they were transformed by the power of the Nightwell. The Lightforged Draenei are no longer Draenei, they were transformed by the power of the light. Turalyon is no longer a Human, he is a lightforged Human, transformed by the power of the Light. Void Elves are no longer Blood/High Elves, they are transformed by the power of the void.
    But they are still High Elves(Blood Elves). There is nothing you can say that change that fact. The Lightforged Draeneir and Nightborne used 1000s of years to evolve into what they are now. The Void Elves did this very recently, and what I write next is speculation as well, but I am pretty sure some of the Void Elves see themselves as Blood Elves still.

    It is hard to argue it is speculation when the senior narrative designer states that Void Elves can reproduce and we have High Elven wayfarers in Tel'rogus being very clear about their intentions regarding the void. The only logical interpretation of what you are saying is that while Void Elves can reproduce (as Moorgard confirms), and while Alliance High Elves are clearly expressing a very strong interest in learning to use the void (as shown in game), that for some reason Alliance High Elves don't make that final leap. That does not make sense, and is a suggestion it seems motivated by a desire to pretend Alliance High Elves cannot become Void Elves when there is clearly nothing stopping them.

    As for the comparison between the numbers of Void Elves and Alliance High Elves as appearing in game, my stance with that is as follows. As Blizzard has repeatedly stated that Alliance High Elves are extremely low in numbers, then the repeated appearance of Alliance High Elf NPCs is easiest to explain as the same group of Elves showing up again and again. As the only time Alliance High Elves do appear in anything like decent numbers is when Dalaran and the Silver Covenant is involved, it is likely that the Alliance High Elves we see from time to time are members of the Silver Covenant in a new front.

    Note that I am not saying Void Elves are numerous either. I am saying that their numbers as depicted in game do not match the idea that only a small group of researchers were converted and that those are the only Void Elves ever. Clearly, some of the times we encounter Void Elves were are likely encountering the same group of Elves again we may have previously as they deploy to a new front. Void Elves are a small, crack squad and obviously do not have an equivalent population to many of the other races. But crucially, Void Elves can recruit new Void Elves from the Blood Elf and Alliance High Elf populations. Alliance High Elves do not seem to be able to lure many Blood Elves, as none have ever been depicted in game beyond the Quel'lithien rangers (who are currently all dead). Anyone who was likely to embrace exile in Dalaran rather than serve the Horde or the Blood Elves likely left years ago.
    Bolded part is a very weird statement seeing as most people here want the Alliance High Elves to be different than the Blood Elves. And personally I like Void Elves more than regular High Elves, so it's not a stick towards me neither. I think it's more the other way around, that someone doesn't want Alliance High Elves to be a subject as Allied Race anymore so they see suggestions ingame that all the Alliance High Elves will be Void Elves as truth.
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  6. #11286
    Mechagnome elbleuet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    It was used as the basis for the Void Elf scenario. That was it. Anything beyond that really is speculation.
    That can hardly be considered as a basis since in the Alliance scenario we absolutely don't know what happened in the Sunwell. And the Void elves were already exiled when the Horde scenario occurs. But again, it shows to Horde players that the Sunwell is extremely vulnerable to void energies. Why bother showing this in a Nightborne quest ? That's interesting.

    But yea, this is just speculation from me, and I hope it comes true. But I'm pretty confident on it.
    "One day, Silvermoon will stand again on the side of the Alliance, I know it"

    - Alleria Windrunner

  7. #11287
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    But they are still High Elves(Blood Elves). There is nothing you can say that change that fact. The Lightforged Draeneir and Nightborne used 1000s of years to evolve into what they are now. The Void Elves did this very recently, and what I write next is speculation as well, but I am pretty sure some of the Void Elves see themselves as Blood Elves still.
    Nightborne yes, Lightforged Draenei no.

    In the LFD recruitment scenario, you get paired up with a draenei (T'Paartos) looking to perform the trials in order to become Lightforged. The transformatoin from Draenei into Lightforged Draenei is pretty much instantaneous just like it was with Void Elves.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eER5-twxIqQ

  8. #11288
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Nightborne yes, Lightforged Draenei no.

    In the LFD recruitment scenario, you get paired up with a draenei (T'Paartos) looking to perform the trials in order to become Lightforged. The transformatoin from Draenei into Lightforged Draenei is pretty much instantaneous just like it was with Void Elves.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eER5-twxIqQ
    Allright, true(I got one LF Draenei), but the Lightforged Draenei has been here for thousands of years, they were regular Draeneis before. Void Elves happened recently. In any case, Lightforged Draeneis are still Draenei in the sense of the race Draenei. I mean Draenei-members and LF Draeneis-members most likely got family(relatives perhaps) together, same for Void Elves who most likely still got family in Silvermoon. The term "race" doesn't really fit everywhere does it. That's the gist really.

    A Void Elf is still High Elven, nothing can change that.
    Last edited by Doffen; 2019-06-12 at 02:49 PM.
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  9. #11289
    Pit Lord FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Quel%27Lithien_Lodge

    The Wowpedia summary is pretty succinct on this lodge.

    "The lodge fell on hard times following the Scourge invasion of Quel'Thalas. It was here that the banished rangers under Renthar Hawkspear took up residence after Grand Magister Rommath's return from Outland; Renthar and his group had dissented against Rommath's teachings on moral grounds. To avoid the nation becoming divided on the issue, as the teachings had been an essential boon to the elves, Lor'themar, now Quel'Thalas' regent, exiled the group south."

    I want you to read that carefully. These Elves were banished to Quel'lithien AFTER Grand Magister Rommath returned from Outland with Illidan's teachings.

    Yet when were the High Elves renamed as Blood Elves? AFTER Kael'thas returned to Quel'thalas from Dalaran. So, Kael'thas gathered the survivors, renamed them Blood Elves and then headed south with an army to assist Garithos. Lor'themar Theron was left in charge of the Blood Elves.

    The rangers who took up residence at Quel'lithien were only banished when they objected to Rommath's teachings. Rommath did not return until after the following had happened.

    1.)Kael served with Garithos and the Alliance for a period of time.
    2.) Kael was betrayed by Garithos.
    3.) Kael and the Blood Elves escaped to Outland with the Naga
    4.) Kael and the Blood Elves swore to serve Illidan.
    5.) Kael and the Blood Elves accompanied Illidan to Icecrown.
    6.) Kael and the Blood Elves fled back to Outland.
    7.) Kael sent Rommath back to Silvermoon with Illidan's teachings.
    8.) Lor'themar exiled those who refused to follow the new teachings on the grounds of national unity.

    So the simplest explanation for the rangers of Quel'lithien is that they did in fact call themselves Blood Elves for a time, but Illidan's teachings disgusted them so much and they found their exile so embittering that once they were cast out they embraced the name to show their rejection of what they felt their people had become.

    But for a time, yes, they would have been Blood Elves. And then they demonstrated just how profound a change that was by easily reverting to High Elf, proving at the end of the day it's just an adjective.

    Void Elves will have a much harder time undoing their skin tone changes, tentacle growths and connection to the void let me assure you.
    Let's read more carefully what's said about that lodge on that wowpedia page as well.

    "Although the lodge's inhabitants were friendly to Alliance players until Cataclysm, there is nothing to suggest they were an official part of it. It is strongly suggested in In the Shadow of the Sun that the lodge was autonomous and received no outside support."

    More bad faith arguing from you Obelisk. You use a very neutral group of High Elves that aren't even part of the Alliance as some example to further your argument.

    When it's been mentioned countless times the High Elves players are asking to be made playable are those of the Alliance aka the ones officially within the Alliance already.

    I mean it would be like me associating the Scryers with the Horde. Or a player trying to insinuate their playable Blood Elf is from the scryers when we know officially that just cannot be.

    https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...9267207#post-6

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I don't think it's about their culture not being "primitive", it's more that when you play a Human or a Blood Elf, or any other race for that matter, your character comes from a specific "faction" within that race. This lends them the ability to choose what they want to "be" when they grow up, but only insofar as what that particular society offers.

    Playable Humans are always from the nation of Stormwind. Playable Blood Elves are always from Silvermoon. While it's possible for there to be "break aways" in the story and for members of those races to join "opposing factions" and learn new skills, that's not something that's on offer to player characters.

    If those classes were ever added to those races, I would expect specific backstory to be created for how those races adopted those techniques and rituals, such as with gnome hunters "creating" and taming mechanical beasts.
    Are the Quel'lithien lodge members currently part of the Alliance? No, that's why it's useless to bring them up in a request for playable Alliance High Elves. A group of High Elves that still to this day, fight for and are part of the Alliance faction.

    You can see a few of these members in BFA even. Heck they even include a High Elf on the island expedition team, which are supposedly:

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    "interesting members of the opposing faction to fight" - Jeremy Feasel, Senior Game Designer


    He states this at time 3:43-3:45.

    This is why your use of Quel'lithien is in bad faith. It would be like trying to posit that your playable Blood Elf comes from the Scryers in Outland, which we already know would not be true, or would just be player headcanon if they want to "RP" it.

    You present a Red Herring by trying to argue using ANY High Elf that could potentially support your argument. Tell me, do playable Goblins come from all the cartels? Is every Worgen a member of the Alliance? Do playable Humans cover all the kingdoms? What about the playable Tauren, are they all inclusive of every Tauren tribe? Do playable Orcs cover every type of Orc tribe?

    It is again, something that should be crystal clear: This request is for playable High Elves of the Alliance. The same High Elves that have been present within the Alliance even when their nation/kingdom of Quel'thalas pulled away, the same group of High Elves that have been ever present across WoW's expansions fighting in the name of the Alliance.

    Another thing to point out: It should be crystal clear that no single playable race encompasses every portion of their race. As stated by a Blizzard CM, we play "a specific faction within a race".
    Last edited by FlubberPuddy; 2019-06-12 at 03:00 PM.

  10. #11290
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Before you counter with Suramar, that is a capital in an abstract sense only as the city is still stuck in the Legion timeframe under Elisande with only a small area being friendly to Horde players.
    Doesn't matter. Suramar is a Horde capital, now, even if we, the players, cannot visit it. Blizzard can use instances of Suramar for future Horde content.
    Last edited by Ielenia; 2019-06-12 at 03:16 PM.
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    Update 08/17: I changed how the Bone spec's golem mechanic works, as well as some other minor changes.
    I also did a Bard thing! Questions, comments and ideas, all welcome!
    Update 09/02: Apparently the mods decided to merge my class concept thread with an existing one.

  11. #11291
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Allright, true(I got one LF Draenei), but the Lightforged Draenei has been here for thousands of years, they were regular Draeneis before. Void Elves happened recently. In any case, Lightforged Draeneis are still Draenei in the sense of the race Draenei. I mean Draenei-members and LF Draeneis-members most likely got family(relatives perhaps) together, same for Void Elves who most likely still got family in Silvermoon. The term "race" doesn't really fit everywhere does it. That's the gist really.

    A Void Elf is still High Elven, nothing can change that.
    Fair point, wasn't really arguing your point one way or the other, just wanted to clarify that little tidbit.

    It's like a wizard in Harry Potter, or characters like Black Panther, Captain America, Bruce Banner or Captain Marvel in the Marvel universe (or insert your favorite trope here from some other universe....these were just the first ones to come to mind). Them having special powers doesn't make them stop being human, at their core, they're something a little more than human now, therefore their lives are fundamentally changed because of it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Before you counter with Suramar, that is a capital in an abstract sense only as the city is still stuck in the Legion timeframe under Elisande with only a small area being friendly to Horde players.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Doesn't matter. Suramar is a Horde capital, now, even if we, the players, cannot visit it. Blizzard can use instances of Suramar for future Horde content.
    I agree with Ielenia on this one. The fact is Suramar as a city still exists, it's not destroyed or compromised and the race that has sovereignty over it is aligned with the Horde. Therefore, lore wise, Suramar is a Horde city and the capital city of the Nightborne.

    The Legion is destroyed at this point so the reason for its self imposed isolation is over.

    It's not an in-game "capital city" for game play reasons, but more likely time and resource constraints needed to make an in-game capital city version of it.

  12. #11292
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Fair point, wasn't really arguing your point one way or the other, just wanted to clarify that little tidbit.

    It's like a wizard in Harry Potter, or characters like Black Panther, Captain America, Bruce Banner or Captain Marvel in the Marvel universe (or insert your favorite trope here from some other universe....these were just the first ones to come to mind). Them having special powers doesn't make them stop being human, at their core, they're something a little more than human now, therefore their lives are fundamentally changed because of it.
    You know, I was walking to the store and was reflecting a bit on this very important matter(:>). So to be a Lightforged Draenei you have to go through that ritual. But what are they before they go through that? Do the LF Draenei mom and LF Draenei dad make a LF Draenei baby or a Draenei baby? I would guess the latter seeing they have that ritual no? If not they wouldn't have to do that I assume? T'Partoos is a regular Draenei. So LF Draenei being a race is kind of not true in the bigger picture. And there lies the point. Playable races in WoW is set in stone. If you choose a LF Draenei you are a LF Draenei, not a Draenei. But looking at it from outside, and into the story instead, it's not that simple. A LF Draenei could easily be a regular Draenei that just performs that ritual. Doesn't make them another race. Just on the character screen.

    Same with Void Elves. No one is born a Void Elf. The playable and npc Void Elves are all Blood Elves, aka High Elves before they go through the let's say, ritual. Every Void Elf we see in game, be it playable or npcs are Thalassian Elves that was Blood/High Elves for centuries/milleniums before that. They are still Blood Elves, aka High Elves, no matter how much they transform. In 1000s of years when the Void Elves breeds Void Elf kids, I might see it differently

    I am just thinking out loud here, what is and what isn't, its pretty interesting seeing how races works when it comes to the game, vs the "real story" of the inhabitants of Azeroth, and the Great Beyond. It's nice though to discuss like this, makes you think of stuff in another way than just the game we play.

    Who would want to see a Void Elf baby btw?
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  13. #11293
    Pit Lord FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    You know, I was walking to the store and was reflecting a bit on this very important matter(:>). So to be a Lightforged Draenei you have to go through that ritual. But what are they before they go through that? Do the LF Draenei mom and LF Draenei dad make a LF Draenei baby or a Draenei baby? I would guess the latter seeing they have that ritual no? If not they wouldn't have to do that I assume? T'Partoos is a regular Draenei. So LF Draenei being a race is kind of not true in the bigger picture. And there lies the point. Playable races in WoW is set in stone. If you choose a LF Draenei you are a LF Draenei, not a Draenei. But looking at it from outside, and into the story instead, it's not that simple. A LF Draenei could easily be a regular Draenei that just performs that ritual. Doesn't make them another race. Just on the character screen.

    Same with Void Elves. No one is born a Void Elf. The playable and npc Void Elves are all Blood Elves, aka High Elves before they go through the let's say, ritual. Every Void Elf we see in game, be it playable or npcs are Thalassian Elves that was Blood/High Elves for centuries/milleniums before that. They are still Blood Elves, aka High Elves, no matter how much they transform. In 1000s of years when the Void Elves breeds Void Elf kids, I might see it differently

    I am just thinking out loud here, what is and what isn't, its pretty interesting seeing how races works when it comes to the game, vs the "real story" of the inhabitants of Azeroth, and the Great Beyond. It's nice though to discuss like this, makes you think of stuff in another way than just the game we play.

    Who would want to see a Void Elf baby btw?
    This type of thinking is supported by official developer commentary on the Worgen.

    "Worgen are not technically a race and thus cannot reproduce like one. The worgen curse is just a curse. Its origins are rooted in the druidic pack form that was later altered by the Scythe of Elune. The end result is worgen we see today, beings that can transmit their affliction to others via a single bite. In theory, if two worgen were to mate and produce an offspring, that offspring would not be a worgen. The child would merely possess the genetic material of his or her parents, like any other child sans the curse.[17]"

    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Worgen

    The answer comes from an Ask CDev Round 4.

    So a child of two Worgen cursed parents would come out as a regular human kid.

    This is why it's mere gameplay distinction that when we "select a race" in the character creation, that's just to simplify for ease of game use to say, "hey you're picking a Worgen" instead of going "yeah this is a human too, but it's a Gilnean Human that's been cursed".

    What is much more succinct? [Cursed Gilnean Humans] or [Worgen]. Rhetorical question btw.

    This game is made up of playing many types of fantasies, if you want to play as a regular joe-schmo human, you pick [Human], if you want to play as a cursed human you pick [Worgen], if you want to play as a dead human you pick [Undead], if you want to play a big burly/thicc human you pick [Kul Tiran].

    They are all humans, just different kinds of fantasy. That's why it continues to be silly when people say if you want to play a High Elf, just play a Blood Elf. The fantasy of a Blood Elf is not the fantasy of a High Elf.

    High Elves didn't enslave a Naaru, feed on creatures, utilize fel magic, stay haughty/pompous, form the Blood Knights, utilize Blood Magic, display elven superiority, join the Horde. This is all Blood Elf fantasy.

    High Elves fed on arcane objects, or dealt with their magical withdrawal through sheer will, they're not haughty/pompous at all and humble themselves with their allies, stayed within the Alliance despite their nation seceding. I mean in essence, these guys are the "joe-schmoe humans" of Elves. They're the base Eevee before any evolution. This is the High Elf fantasy being requested.

    High Elves also didn't join the Horde, accept the Blood Elf name, not like the Horde, delve into void magic, get cast out by for their void studies, get almost turned into an ethereal and churned out into a Void being, dealing with maddening whispers (apparently), and re-join the Alliance. This is Void Elf fantasy.

  14. #11294
    Quote Originally Posted by Pestilent Soul View Post
    Perfect. You shown exactly why my favourite races are superior to these overestimated Alliance amish crybabies.
    I give my flesh and blood freely to the Warchief. I am the instrument of my Warchief's desire. I am a weapon of my Warchief's command.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread

  15. #11295
    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    This type of thinking is supported by official developer commentary on the Worgen.

    "Worgen are not technically a race and thus cannot reproduce like one. The worgen curse is just a curse. Its origins are rooted in the druidic pack form that was later altered by the Scythe of Elune. The end result is worgen we see today, beings that can transmit their affliction to others via a single bite. In theory, if two worgen were to mate and produce an offspring, that offspring would not be a worgen. The child would merely possess the genetic material of his or her parents, like any other child sans the curse.[17]"

    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Worgen

    The answer comes from an Ask CDev Round 4.

    So a child of two Worgen cursed parents would come out as a regular human kid.

    This is why it's mere gameplay distinction that when we "select a race" in the character creation, that's just to simplify for ease of game use to say, "hey you're picking a Worgen" instead of going "yeah this is a human too, but it's a Gilnean Human that's been cursed".

    What is much more succinct? [Cursed Gilnean Humans] or [Worgen]. Rhetorical question btw.

    This game is made up of playing many types of fantasies, if you want to play as a regular joe-schmo human, you pick [Human], if you want to play as a cursed human you pick [Worgen], if you want to play as a dead human you pick [Undead], if you want to play a big burly/thicc human you pick [Kul Tiran].

    They are all humans, just different kinds of fantasy. That's why it continues to be silly when people say if you want to play a High Elf, just play a Blood Elf. The fantasy of a Blood Elf is not the fantasy of a High Elf.

    High Elves didn't enslave a Naaru, feed on creatures, utilize fel magic, stay haughty/pompous, form the Blood Knights, utilize Blood Magic, display elven superiority, join the Horde. This is all Blood Elf fantasy.

    High Elves fed on arcane objects, or dealt with their magical withdrawal through sheer will, they're not haughty/pompous at all and humble themselves with their allies, stayed within the Alliance despite their nation seceding. I mean in essence, these guys are the "joe-schmoe humans" of Elves. They're the base Eevee before any evolution. This is the High Elf fantasy being requested.

    High Elves also didn't join the Horde, accept the Blood Elf name, not like the Horde, delve into void magic, get cast out by for their void studies, get almost turned into an ethereal and churned out into a Void being, dealing with maddening whispers (apparently), and re-join the Alliance. This is Void Elf fantasy.
    This is pretty much my stance on it as well. Fantasy is what makes one type of the race different from the other types of same race. Like worgens and Kul Tiran. Both just as much Humans. Or well, Kul Tiran a bit more human if you know what I mean *wink wink*. Like the Alliance High Elf fantasy vs Void Elf fantasy, or Blood Elf fantasy. All are from the same race, just different. And that's practically what the Allied Races are as well as some of the core races. Just something else of that race.

    We don't really have that many playable "races" lorewise in WoW if you think about it. Just on the character screen :>
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  16. #11296
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    You know, I was walking to the store and was reflecting a bit on this very important matter(:>). So to be a Lightforged Draenei you have to go through that ritual. But what are they before they go through that? Do the LF Draenei mom and LF Draenei dad make a LF Draenei baby or a Draenei baby? I would guess the latter seeing they have that ritual no? If not they wouldn't have to do that I assume? T'Partoos is a regular Draenei. So LF Draenei being a race is kind of not true in the bigger picture. And there lies the point. Playable races in WoW is set in stone. If you choose a LF Draenei you are a LF Draenei, not a Draenei. But looking at it from outside, and into the story instead, it's not that simple. A LF Draenei could easily be a regular Draenei that just performs that ritual. Doesn't make them another race. Just on the character screen.

    Same with Void Elves. No one is born a Void Elf. The playable and npc Void Elves are all Blood Elves, aka High Elves before they go through the let's say, ritual. Every Void Elf we see in game, be it playable or npcs are Thalassian Elves that was Blood/High Elves for centuries/milleniums before that. They are still Blood Elves, aka High Elves, no matter how much they transform. In 1000s of years when the Void Elves breeds Void Elf kids, I might see it differently

    I am just thinking out loud here, what is and what isn't, its pretty interesting seeing how races works when it comes to the game, vs the "real story" of the inhabitants of Azeroth, and the Great Beyond. It's nice though to discuss like this, makes you think of stuff in another way than just the game we play.

    Who would want to see a Void Elf baby btw?
    LF Human Turalyon x Void Elf Alleria having a new baby.
    That's demi voided lightforged human /elf . Is definitely way beyind the norm.

  17. #11297
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    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    Perfect. You shown exactly why my favourite races are superior to these overestimated Alliance amish crybabies.
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  18. #11298
    Obviously the following is personal opinion.

    I believe High Elves are more a question of when at this point and not if. There is loose support from former and current Blizzard employees and the community at large. Blizzard being Blizzard though must be cautious on how they implement them.

    I don't see them becoming a fully independent race, at least not yet/soon. With all the elves introduced already in BFA and their original plans not involving High Elves at all, it is unlikely they would change coarse so soon.

    This is what I would like to see, both short term and long term.

    In the short term, have a small questline in the BFA Outro/Pre Order 9.0 patch (similar to when Nightbourne and Void Elves were added for BFA) involving a small group of Silver Covenant members undergoing the Void Elf transformation. Require a 120 Void Elf, get an ingame mail that starts the quest and has you meet a Silver Covenant guard in the Dalaran Underbelly. You act as the liaison between him/her and a small group that wish to join the Void Elves and directly fight the Horde after all the evil they have seen and refuse to remain neutral, directly engaging the Horde. Along with fairer skin options, High Elven Heritage armor and mounts could be unlocked. They would retain more of their High Elven appearance outside of battle, but undergo all the Void Elven transformations during battle. They could even add Paladins as a playable class. (Horde would aslo receive a questline involving Nightborne culminating in additional appearance options and Druid as playable class based on High Botanist Tel'Arn's teachings.)

    Long term, I would like to see High Elves more involved in Alliance activities. The Silver Covenant forgoes all allusions of neutrality, fully support the Alliance and are front and center for most of if not all of an expansion cycle. This would allow Blizzard to fully flesh out all the cultural and lore differences (or even retcon more if they want) between Blood Elves and High Elves. Then they could introduce a true High Elven option in an expansion or 2 in the future.

    In the short term, those who want a more High Elven appearance can get it, and it also helps build up lore for Void Elves. Because the number would be so small and made more or less in secret in the Underbelly, it wouldn't detract from possible lore of High Elves in the future.

  19. #11299
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    Alliance High Elves need the Suramar treatment at this point. With this much hype, nothing less will do.
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  20. #11300
    I am Murloc! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elbleuet View Post
    That can hardly be considered as a basis since in the Alliance scenario we absolutely don't know what happened in the Sunwell. And the Void elves were already exiled when the Horde scenario occurs. But again, it shows to Horde players that the Sunwell is extremely vulnerable to void energies. Why bother showing this in a Nightborne quest ? That's interesting.

    But yea, this is just speculation from me, and I hope it comes true. But I'm pretty confident on it.
    How can you argue that? That just because those in the Alliance might not be directly aware of what happened in the Nightborne scenario that the aspects you cannot be the basis for the Void Elf scenario?

    They've done this in the past. The Forsaken questing experience in Silverpine forest is a direct continuation of the Worgen levelling experience. In order to truly the Silverpine storyline, you need to have done the Worgen opening. They clearly have no problem with presenting the story in a disjointed fashion. I am not saying that is a good thing, but it is something they are doing.

    As to why they are showing players, not just Horde players but all players, why the Sunwell is extremely vulnerable to void energies, I thought the answer to that was self-evident. They showed us that to underline why Umbric and his group of followers were exiled in the first place, why they were open to joining the Alliance after their transformation and why there is a huge split between the Blood Elves and the Void Elves.

    Everything you have cited makes perfect sense when viewed through the lens of prepping the ground for the Void Elf scenario which was likely written at the same time as the Nightborne one. We have the danger the void poses to the Blood Elves, we have Magister Umbric's group mentioned, we have the bad guy FOR the Void Elf scenario make his first appearance.

    You are speculating. Speculation is fine. But you are speculating with weak evidence and unjustified confidence.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    But they are still High Elves(Blood Elves). There is nothing you can say that change that fact. The Lightforged Draeneir and Nightborne used 1000s of years to evolve into what they are now. The Void Elves did this very recently, and what I write next is speculation as well, but I am pretty sure some of the Void Elves see themselves as Blood Elves still.
    As was pointed out elsewhere, the Lightforged Draenei are transformed in an instant through the power of the light. What happened to Void Elves could therefore be seeing as 'voidforging' to coin a term.

    The Void Elves refer to themselves as Void Elves, Ren'Dorei. Unlike with the Blood/High Elf terminology split, there is an actual substantive difference backing up the name change.

    Void Elves are close to Blood/High Elves. They are a variant, not an entirely brand new race. But it is precisely because they are a variant that I am able to say they are not High Elves. Perhaps the better universal term for these Elves is 'Thalassian'.


    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Bolded part is a very weird statement seeing as most people here want the Alliance High Elves to be different than the Blood Elves. And personally I like Void Elves more than regular High Elves, so it's not a stick towards me neither. I think it's more the other way around, that someone doesn't want Alliance High Elves to be a subject as Allied Race anymore so they see suggestions ingame that all the Alliance High Elves will be Void Elves as truth.
    Alliance High Elves cannot be different from Blood Elves as Blood Elves are High Elves. To ask for High Elves that are different from Blood Elves is to ask for Blizzard to recreate the wheel in such a way that the wheel is not round. That is impossible.

    Void Elves are clearly the result of an internal iterative process within Blizzard that likely began as soon as Alliance High Elves were rejected as an Allied race on the grounds of the damage they would do the divide between the two factions. That if we cannot give the Alliance a race identical to a Horde race, can we give them something similar.

    Void Elves are Alliance thalassian elves. They are clearly different than Blood Elves. Therefore, those asking for Alliance thalassian elves that are different from Blood Elves have their answer.

    And given that Void Elves can convert other willing thalassian elves into Void Elves, those who argue they want to play an Elf that has been loyal to the Alliance since Warcraft 2 also have their answer, in that they can play their Void Elf as one of those Elves.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    snip
    You stated that no Blood Elf had ever reverted to a High Elf

    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    [B]Just as a Void Elf cannot unbecome back to a Blood Elf, we have yet to see a Blood Elf go back to being a High Elf. It's a one way trip as far as evidenced by the game. .
    The only way the Elves of Quel'lithien lodge make sense is if they did exactly that. This proves it is not a 'one way trip' as you put it, equivalent to the transformation into a Void Elf.
    Last edited by Obelisk Kai; 2019-06-13 at 09:47 AM.
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