Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Magnagarde]

Thank you that is the look I was going for.



You know, I'm okay with people not finding dark skinned elves their cup of tea, you do you (yes, even when you call them ridiculous) but the, idk, prejudice jumps at you when the only feedback you have is the skin color instead of the, idk, armor design? and that's like such a huge yikes.

It's just fanart that's untrue to the depiction of what you're a fan of to begin with. Sure, you can go wild and creative, but don't expect nobody to point it out.

Ye I criciticized the skin color because it's inaccurate, why's that so surprising? You won't see me complaining about the Dark Iron dwarves being dark-skinned, but you should be ready to draw some flak if you create a dark-skinned Wildhammer. Judging by your reply, you seem to have expected some negative feedback over the inaccuracy of your fanart, putting it in there on purpose.

I'm on the opinion that something like it should also be shared with Blood elves, or only Blood elves have it, due to their story clearly stating that their skin tones darkened to some degree due to the action of Fel.

I find darker skin tones a bad differentiator from Blood elves, or both or only Blood elves should have it.

So... Well, actually it is good, if Blood elves have it High elves don't, that could be another route, High elves simply being untainted Thalassians as an aesthetic differentiator.

I'm a proponent of the effects of magic and living conditions within the game's universe being shown/visible. That's how it always goes with the various races in Warcraft. Some fel turns the skin mildly red or somewhat greenish, a lot of it turns it extremely red/green and so on. That's expectable. It's just that the facial features seem to be completely off and were pointedly made to look African/central-Asian and that coupled with the inaccurate skin color with high elves was my main point of contention. Other than that, it's pretty decent.

[Traycor]

Tried the Classic stress test today. As much as people in this thread talk about Blood Elves being the core Horde race, it's interesting that we have a version of WoW that will soon be released that does not have a single blood elf in the Horde (npc or playable). But High Elves will still be Alliance. Just an interesting thought.

[ItsWhimsy]

Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

High Elves are not going to happen, stop whining about it.

[Aldo Hawk]

This is just.. uch /palm to you..

And this is just... uch /pistolshotinyourfuckingface to you...

Orc elves, Troll elves, Gnome elves and Dwarf elves, dude, Naga elves, dude, DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUDE!!!

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I don't think "like" or "dislike," stripped of context, is really what gives any position its intrinsic worth or value in terms of being important. It's the arguments behind the like or dislike that, to me, denote worth and value in terms of an opinion. Just liking something or disliking something is kind of meaningless without some form of presented rationale for its substance - I mean it's great information to have, but it isn't really actionable in the way this thread is kind of all about. In my view, a well-argued and highly-detailed "dislike" is manifestly worth more than a substance-less or threadbare "like," and vice-versa of course. In your examples with the Lightforged Draenei and Void Elves I personally found a lot of the negative opinions to be mostly without substance or argued badly as most people were just reacting with memes, or just stating a personal opinion without any kind of attempt at an objective critique ("ugh, who wants to play a bunch of purple Emo Elves," etc. etc.) Arguments full of misapprehensions or misinformation are also in the same boat as having little to no actual substance - perhaps even worse in that they can be persuasive and also factually incorrect.

To be succinct: valid and well thought-out arguments are what make an opinion important, not the subjective positive or negative spin of the opinion.

Yes, of course, I didn't said it was what gave worth to the ideas. I just said that players liking something is more important than players disliking it. Given that there are things that players dislike and everything/everyone just got along with it.

That's my take on it, of course taking into account what players think is important, but some things are more important than others.

Also, on the other hand, there were negative opinions regarding Void elves and Lightforged such as coming out of nowhere with little amount of lore, it just being not enough for an allied race and more like a magnified reskin, etc... Of course the meme part of commentary is louder.

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I'm a proponent of the effects of magic and living conditions within the game's universe being shown/visible. That's how it always goes with the various races in Warcraft. Some fel turns the skin mildly red or somewhat greenish, a lot of it turns it extremely red/green and so on. That's expectable. It's just that the facial features seem to be completely off and were pointedly made to look African/central-Asian and that coupled with the inaccurate skin color with high elves was my main point of contention. Other than that, it's pretty decent.

Oh yeah, the faces, I didn't took a good look at them. Yes, it's kind of like an inuit/yupik face structure.

This I would say should be implemented on both groups no matter what if it ends up on developer line, given that the lore didn't stated that their faces changed. So that would be an actual bad differentiator unlike skin tones that can have an explanation that fit the existing lore.

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That's just author appeal, I also have dark skinned Blood Elves, I just like more varied skin tones like overall. https://66.media.tumblr.com/b83d0445...67eo1_1280.png

Personally, I think that Belves would have "redder" skin tones regardless of being light/dark, we see it in game, and how some fellbloods go full red, so I can see the contrast being between pale/ashy for HE and golden/tanned for BE

Well, if it's presented as concept for a suggestion one should argue if it fits or not. I think it does for both or just for Blood elves given the context.

Also. Now that I saw that Blood elf I would like to have it, it would further differentiate High elves from Blood elves if it's only applied to Blood elves, and it looks pretty good.

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High Elves are not going to happen, stop whining about it.

Pathetic. You just activated my trap card!

UNO reverse card, GO!

[Alanar]

And this is just... uch /pistolshotinyourfuckingface to you...!

Okey calm your tits lmao, I am still laughing at the fact people still believe they are distinct enough.

Kinda scary the high elf fans become more and more desperate so they become alot more hostile towards outsiders( the nay sayers)

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

It's just fanart that's untrue to the depiction of what you're a fan of to begin with. Sure, you can go wild and creative, but don't expect nobody to point it out.

Ye I criciticized the skin color because it's inaccurate, why's that so surprising? You won't see me complaining about the Dark Iron dwarves being dark-skinned, but you should be ready to draw some flak if you create a dark-skinned Wildhammer. Judging by your reply, you seem to have expected some negative feedback over the inaccuracy of your fanart, putting it in there on purpose.

I mean the fact that you keep harping on the skin color, which you are free to not vibe with, over the rest of the designs, is kinda telling of what your, preoccupations are.

Personally, I'm a proponent all elves should have a larger spectrum of skin tone; the notion that elves should be fair skinned is dated, and I just think it's an interesting design choice. Disagree all you want, say it is because it is "inaccurate" to the lore (even when the lore itself is demonstrably malleable)

I have seen many people not digging the idea of dark skinned elves, but few have been so... transparent.

But again, that you keep focusing on the skin tone of the character when the armor itself could go on any (like in fact I have the same armor with some "tier" differences on another character who is light skinned) is telling.

Well, if it's presented as concept for a suggestion one should argue if it fits or not. I think it does for both or just for Blood elves given the context.

Also. Now that I saw that Blood elf I would like to have it, it would further differentiate High elves from Blood elves if it's only applied to Blood elves, and it looks pretty good.

IMO it would be hard to say why only blood or high elves would have dark skin; if it's part of their gene pool both should have it (hence why I'd rather have the skin tone difference be about saturation (pale/ashy versus golden/tanned)

Also I have seen the notion that High Elves could have darker skins due to intermingling with humans, which is the only way I can see only one of the groups having darker skin.

But again, this is author appeal; I just find boring that elves are always pale and the trite answer "it's in the lore" doesn't bother to examine the reasons why most elves in fantasy are white, blonde and blue eyed.

But yeah, that's like a whole different issue from playable High Elves.

[Aldo Hawk]

Okey calm your tits lmao, I am still laughing at the fact people still believe they are distinct enough.

Jokes on you, they are more distinct than Pandaren. Saying they are the exact same is jumping over Blood elf lore itself.

Kinda scary the high elf fans become more and more desperate so they become alot more hostile towards outsiders( the nay sayers)

Scared? lol that's actually laughable.

Look, if you come here to answer in that tone to an ironic comment meant to be funny and tension-breaking you deserve a /pistolshotinyourfuckingface

K m8?

Please move on.

[ItsWhimsy]

Pathetic. You just activated my trap card!

UNO reverse card, GO!

And this is why. Little children who can barely work a keyboard are the ones pissing and moaning about their fanfiction not happening. Get off the internet kiddo, this place is not for you.

[scubi666stacy]

Tried the Classic stress test today. As much as people in this thread talk about Blood Elves being the core Horde race, it's interesting that we have a version of WoW that will soon be released that does not have a single blood elf in the Horde (npc or playable). But High Elves will still be Alliance. Just an interesting thought.

So what? Classic / Vanilla is set in the short period of time where the Blood Elves have ALREADY LEFT the Alliance. For this people, they are in a transition from Alliance to Horde. And they happen to be in regions which are not part of the Vanilla storyline. Stop spinning facts the wrong way. The only High Elves out there are dissidents and traitors to their race.

Edit: For once, try to shift your focus from your beloved Alliance to a PoV of the Thallasian race and you will realise that your case of "Alliance High Elves" is the exception to the rule. And the rule is, that the vast majority of Thalassian Elves who have survived the onslaught of the Legion, and the traitorous treatment of Humans afterwards, are the Blood Elves. Some of them become hostile because they follow Kael'thas on his path to damnation, but all others are the continuation of the Thalassian storyline. Dissidents in the Alliance or neutral dissidents do not matter in this regard. They have no stay in Thalassian matters anymore, because they chose to leave.

[Alanar]

Jokes on you, they are more distinct than Pandaren. Saying they are the exact same is jumping over Blood elf lore itself.


Scared? lol that's actually laughable.

Look, if you come here to answer in that tone to an ironic comment meant to be funny and tension-breaking you deserve a /pistolshotinyourfuckingface

K m8?

Please move on.

Very mature..
Why dont you move on ... its not healthy ti stay that long in this thread.. it shows. My god.

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And this is why. Little children who can barely work a keyboard are the ones pissing and moaning about their fanfiction not happening. Get off the internet kiddo, this place is not for you.

This ... /10chars....

[Melsiren]

Kinda scary the high elf fans become more and more desperate so they become alot more hostile towards outsiders( the nay sayers)

The Backfire effect is a beautiful thing, this thread is proof.

[Obelisk Kai]

As already argued it wouldn't need to be 100% a duplication. Also, the Void Elves replicate the Blood Elves for the Alliance now, so that assertion doesn't march out of the starting gate very well. The Nightborne replicate the Night Elves for the Horde as well. Not a unique circumstance, and the "persistance" and "never-ending demand" are essentially hyperbolic non-factors in the debate.

Nightborne are not a replication of Night Elves. Were they a replication of Night Elves, Nightborne would have identical aesthetics (i.e identical skin tone and hair colour options), the ears would angle in the same direction, males would have the same musculature and they would be a group of arboreal, druidic elves who worship Elune.

Nightborne are instead exactly what Void Elves are to Blood/High Elves; a clearly defined variant with a unique aesthetic and a unique theme. There is a substantial measure of difference in other words, rather than a one to one equivalence.

Which is entirely the point, Void Elves (like Nightborne) are clear variants on the parent race rather than being identical. Void Elves are not a replication of Blood Elves on the Alliance. Void Elves are a new spin on Blood Elves (who are High Elves), not a duplicate.



Saying Alliance High Elves wouldn't need to be identical misses the point that of course they would be identical. They are identical, their entire story is predicated on them being exactly the same people. They have gone through the political trauma of their exile but that is the sole differentiating feature. They have not spent ten thousand years apart from their people within a bubble bathing in the arcane energies of the Nightwell. They have not been blasted by concentrated amounts of void energy. They have a slightly different backstory and that isn't enough to justify physical differentiation, particularly given the relatively brief length of time they have been separated (a little over a decade in game time).



And the 'persistance' and 'never-ending demand' are far from non factors as the debate only exists as a result of the request. No other race from one faction is desired so openly by members of the other faction. Were the demand to taper off, as one day it must, the debate will end.

I don't think playable High Elven exiles would impact the differentiation between Horde and Alliance on any real level, so this isn't a great concern. And, for argument's sake, even if they did you're still only talking about the blurring of the lines for a single pair of playable races out of the [b]six[b] pairs of already highly-differentiated playable races available insofar as the factions are concerned. A loss of 1/6 of WoW's total faction/race differentiation is not a huge loss, and that's only if you accept the loss of differentiation between High Elven exiles and Blood Elves, which I reiterate is not a requirement in the first place.

Saying it isn't a great concern is a subjective statement. What evidence do you provide it would not? I can cite the common sense rationale that the consequence of sharing a race between two factions designed to be racially exclusive in the vast majority of their options is inevitably a dimunition of their diversity. And saying 'well it's only one sixth of the options' is irrelevant, it's still a dimunition of diversity and an undermining of the integrity of the Horde faction. And once it is done for High Elves, why not every race? Why do the High Elf fans get special treatment? Why should a Worgen not be able to play on the Horde? Why should an Orc be prevented from joining the Alliance?

If the answer is 'High Elves are unique', no, they are not. A narrative can be constructed for anyone to join any faction so if the effort can be expended for one group to cross the divide without alteration, why not all others? Which of course is the underlying logic behind just generally weakening the faction boundaries overall and allowing anyone to play with anyone, rather than singling Alliance High Elves out as 'special'.

Why isn't it? What is your argument for it being insufficient in light of the lore justifying and propping up every other Allied Race relased in WoW? I'm actually already on record (as of several exchanges back) in saying that I think the Defias are good to go as an Allied Race, being really no different from the Kul Tirans in that regard. The only reason why the Defias are likely not up as an option is because there's not a demand for them in any real sense, and they're not relevant to the in any way to the current story-arc of the game. The High Elven exiles have a lot of demand, obviously; but little relevance as well - which is part and parcel of my argument as to why they weren't chosen originally. The Blood Elves themselves came into existence due to a political disagreement between them and their brethren, as well as the storylines concerning the result of the Third War - are you trying to say *that* wasn't originally significant either? I don't think that argument has any essential integrity.

Because lore by itself was already explicitly rejected as a differentiating factor by the developers. Out of the eight Allied races added to the game so far, none have been predicated on story alone. All have been groups that are in some way meaningfully differentiated from their parent races. Meaningful differentiation means they are physically distinct as well as narratively distinct from the parent. The foremost rationale is that as Blizzard wants to sell you race changes, providing the exact same race the second time is redundant and would likely be perceived as a cash grab. Not everyone cares about the purity of the story, or would feel giddy at the thought of playing an Arathi Human loyal to Stromgarde who looks the exact same as a currently available Stormwind Human. Or a Defias Human who has lived as an outlaw. That's essentially slapping a price tag on an experience that is entirely subjective. Soft RP is a perfectly viable means of accomplishing the same goal for free if such a background is truly that important.


And as for the Blood Elves origins, yes, the only thing differentiating them from Alliance High Elves is politics. That was important for the Blood Elves as they redefined what a High Elf was i.e. a Blood Elf, and simultaneously politicised the term 'High Elf' i.e. definitely not a Blood Elf. But at the end of the day, it still remains a political disagreement between two factions of the exact same race, one of whom is overwhelming in terms of it's representation and it's claim to the legacy of Quel'thalas and whose playablility means the option of being a traditional high elf is already available in game right now.

That isn't what I am arguing, though; that is kind of more akin to what you're arguing. My argument is that the developers opted to create the Void Elves because they were relevant as well as part and parcel of the greater story-arc they wished to tell in WoW (namely Light vs. Void type themes) - this is why the High Elven exiles were not iterated on, as they're not relevant to that kind of story and would essentially be effort spent solely in meeting fan demand as opposed to facilitating further and ongoing active stories. There's nothing wrong with fan-service on one level, I grant you; but when your budget is constrained and your goals are obviously high it's best to try to create solutions that meet multiple criteria, and that's where the Void Elves as a compromise come into play. On one hand, they partially meet the demand for playable High Elves on the Alliance, and on the other they move the Light vs. Void story-arc along by introducing a Void-centric race to represent that side of the overarching conflict. The High Elven exiles would've been a better fit for the former demand (meeting fan expectation) but would've fallen flat in meeting the latter one (being relevant to the ongoing story).

Your argument that the Alliance High Elves were not chosen because they are irrelevant to the story is flawed. We were told why they were not chosen. They were not chosen because they were identical to Blood Elves and making them playable blurred the lines between the two factions. Now you may disagree with that reasoning, but that IS the reasoning. Stating High Elves weren't chosen because they are currently irrelevant to the plot implies that at some future point they could be added IF they become relevant to the plot again. This stance disregards the commentary we have on their rejection and leaves Alliance High Elves seeming more plausible as an option than they actually are. Them not being chosen because they aren't currently relevant gives more hope than they were not chosen because they are essentially already playable and they will continue to be rejected so long as keeping the factions diverse is valued by the development team.



The other parts of your argument do make sense though. I don't think they created Void Elves first and as a result decided to disregard Alliance High Elves as your answer implies, I think they disregarded Alliance High Elves first for the reasons they themselves told us and then decided to create a genuine variant that chimed with their desire for a void orientated race in game, a case of killing two birds with one stone. An aesthetic and thematic variant of High Elves that 'gives the Alliance something like a Blood Elf' or 'their own flavour of High Elf'. That they then doubled down on accentuating the light orientation of the Blood Elves, setting up a future narrative dichotomy based on light and shadow, implicitly confirmed this intent in my opinion. Had they decided to go with Alliance High Elves, perhaps we would have ended up with Void Humans rather than Kul Tirans (who they admitted they were torn over after all) instead.

Personally speaking, I do not find the Void Elf problematic in itself - I think their lore is fine and their story, thus far, is compelling enough to be interesting (though oddly unexplored for such a new addition to WoW). What I don't think is that they satisfy the original demand that played a hand in their creation, that of offering a compromise to bring about playable High Elves on the Alliance side. Perhaps that demand is not as important to the developers as the cultivation of support for the new narrative going forward, I can't really say, but the rationale offered by the developers for lack of playable High Elven exiles is simply insufficient in light of said failure.

The developers put forward a fair rationale. The division between the Horde and the Alliance is absolutely fundamental to the franchise and duplicating a core race from one faction to the other undermines that division. I don't regard it as insufficient at all.



The problem I think is the all or nothing approach. Void Elves ARE a compromise for both sides. The Horde lost a monopoly on the model. The Horde lost a monopoly on being the one place you can play a thalassian elf. Yes, the Horde got access to a modified Night Elf as part of the quid pro quo, but that was something Horde players never asked for or demanded, so it occurred as a result of the demand for Alliance High Elves. What the Alliance players didn't get was a traditional thalassian elf. They got the variant. They got the spin. They got the new flavour. They got the 'something like' not the 'actually is'. I regard it as a little staggering they managed to achieve something as close as they actually did, yet I was not surprised the hardcore rejected it. Of course, that goes back to one of my other points where the hardcore are allocated a right of veto, to declare that the compromise failed. I don't believe they have that right, particularly given the gusto with which the Alliance playerbase has embraced Void Elves.
A small group did not accept the compromise. I am sure you have noticed, but when Blizzard does something, there is always a group who aren't happy. In this case, it is the pro High Elf community. That is unfortunate for them.

That the developers rejected it is immaterial to the essence of the debate, I would counter - as I said before, it is that very notion that is itself in contention. So too is their explanation. "Word of God" only matters in the context of what was done and why it was done, not what should have been done, or what could have been done better. I think that's where you get this entire argument wrong, and I'm unsure if I can point out the central fallacy in a way you can at least fully understand without just reiterating myself. We all know the reasons why the developers said they did what they did, and we all know the outcome of that decision - it is simply that a segment of the playerbase fundamentally does not agree with that reasoning, for all the reasons that have been hashed and rehashed throughout this thread.

Developer opinion is not immaterial to the essence of the debate any more than you can debate a book without reference to the text. I disagree that this debate is somehow a pure examination of the possibility of Alliance High Elves, it is instead part of an active campaign dedicated to the realization of that goal. Developer commentary therefore becomes a way of demonstrating to those who support this campaign how little success they have had in changing minds. The sad thing is I don't even think they were unsuccessful, Void Elves were a huge success for them and yet their own insistence on a one hundred percent win prevents them enjoying the ninety five percent win they achieved.

I don't really parse Hazzikostas' 2014 statement in quite the same fashion - and, in keeping with the aforementioned distinction, it doesn't really matter either. The High Elves didn't have any kind of lore-based opening to be added to the game in 2014 (a time in which the Allied Race system didn't exist) as that was the closing year of MoP and the opening of WoD. Just like in 2017-2018, their relevance was on the low ebb.

As stated, I don't agree with your theory that story relevance is the critical decided when it came to selecting Allied races. Mag'har Orcs were always going to be added under this system, they weren't added to seed the future threat from Yrel's lightbound army. If anything, Mag'har Orcs simply provided a moment of serendipity in helping them to create such an interesting story hook for the future, but one way or another, the brown skinned Orcs were coming. The same holds true for the Mecha Gnomes, almost certain to be added as an Allied race before the end of the expansion, an entire plotline and zone that isn't related to the ongoing story arc in any way whose sole purpose is to explain and justify their upcoming addition. A lack of story relevance is itself irrelevant. If Blizzard wanted to add something, they would MAKE them relevant. In 2014 Alliance High Elves were one of two groups mentioned in the context of an upcoming sub-race system along with Mag'har Orcs. One is now playable. One was ruled out in a subsequent statement along with a detailed rationale as to why they were rejected

And the Void Elves have just about as much differentiation, and their existence in the stable of playable races is just fine. Ditto for the Nightborne as well. Again, this argument doesn't work in light of the advent of both of those races. What you're basically doing here is a graduated version of the "New True Scotsman" fallacy - drawing an arbitrary line to say "not different enough" and continually redrawing it to counter every attempt to bridge the proverbial gap. As you said before, you will "never" accept the possibility no matter what is done to add differentiation, either - making any attempt pointless in retrospect.

The first sentence is manifestly incorrect.

Void Elves are blue. Void Elves have tentacles. Void Elves wield weird Void powers and can teleport through the shadows.

In contrast, Alliance High Elves are a bit upset at the Blood Elves.

Far from my argument being undone by the Void Elves and Nightborne, the opposite is the case. After all, Void Elves ARE a player race whereas Alliance High Elves are not. Void Elves ARE different. They are a different flavour of High Elves but not the traditional variety. Alliance High Elves are however identical. In other words, all that is needed is a tangible level of difference to be justified. Void Elves meet that standard, there is a tangible level of difference. Alliance High Elves do not and cannot because they are the same as Blood Elves, an already playable race.


And I did not draw the line, Blizzard did. That they felt the need to draw the line, and explicitly state Alliance High Elves didn't meet that threshold,

- We have no idea if the Void Elves have been separated from the Sunwell and there's no lore to support your supposition. Certainly possible, but unproven.

- You've already claimed that minor palette changes and/or eye-colors is insufficient differentiation. The Void Elves apparently pass muster, though... somehow.

- The High Elven exiles have a unique story.

- Void, Blood, and the High Elven exiles are all High Elves as well, each of a different flavor.

Void Elves being severed from the Sunwell has no lore support but let's be honest, does anyone really expect a race based on shadow to be drawing on a light based energy source? I'd say this is a common sense position to take.


Minor palette changes within the Void Elves were provoked by them being bombarded by void energy, the same process which also gave many of them tentacles and void based powers. In contrast, different skin tones for Alliance High Elves would be naturally occurring and as such would need to be available to Blood Elves as well, thereby defeating the logic of giving different skin tones to Alliance High Elves in the first place. So the reason I oppose them for Alliance High Elves is not that they are impossible, but that they cannot be a point of differentiation. Frankly I would welcome dark skinned thalassian elves as offering more options to Blood Elf players. And of course, the skin tones available to Void Elves happen to 'un-elven', completely unavailable to normal thalassians without becoming a Void Elf. That is why it is a point of genuine differentiation.


In regards to unique story, let me rephrase. Void Elves have a unique destiny. The Alliance High Elves do not. The path of the Void Elves diverged from the other thalassian elves. Alliance High Elves are still thalassian elves as bound to the Sunwell as Blood Elves are. Whatever is happening to the Blood Elves as a result of their connection to the light, the Alliance High Elves will share.


There are two flavours of thalassian elf. Blood Elves, who are High Elves, whom Alliance High Elves are identical to in every way except politics AND Void Elves who have been transformed by an outside force from the baseline. Alliance High Elves no more constitute a distinct flavour of Elf than the Grimtotem Tauren constitute a distinct flavour of Tauren. The Tauren races are the Mulgore Tauren, the Yaungol, the Taunka and the Highmountain Tauren. Not those four and the Grimtotem.

That is true, and that is indeed why we are having the debate. The next question you would be impelled to ask is "why is this a bad thing?"

Because the Horde has the High Elves they want, in every way except political alignment and giving that race directly to the Alliance undermines the integrity of the Horde in a game where faction identity is predicated on the unique races that make up those factions. If they wish to play a traditional High Elf, the Horde is waiting for them. If they cannot stomach the Horde, they have a variant all of their own they can now enjoy. If they feel strongly enough that both options are unacceptable, then rather than argue for playable Alliance High Elves they would be better served attacking the problem from the other direction and to argue for anyone to play with anyone regardless of faction. That is an outcome that does not privilege their small community over everyone else for I am sure there are plenty of people out there whose ideal race is not on their ideal faction.

The continuance of the Void Elves does not answer or address the underlying concern. Soft RP also does not answer or address the underlying concern. I can theoretically RP my Blood Elven Death Knight as a High Elven exile if I were so included (technically he would be as he died at the start of the Third War), but that is not what people want. What they want is an option to play a true High Elven exile and a deeper exploration of their attendant lore and storylines in-game because they find both the race and its story compelling.

Which goes back to the gameplay need of diverse factions and respecting that diversity trumping their desire to play that specific group on that specific faction. Soft RP is the answer many people have to their desires because the game is never going to explicitly spell out their origins, those who roleplay as Alterac Humans within the Alliance forever ashamed of their king's treachery, those who do play Grimtotem Tauren within the Horde for a similar experience.

That they feel it is an answer that is not sufficient is immaterial, it IS an answer, to play a void elf who was a 'High Elf exile' before they embraced the void. It is a solution many have taken before and it is a personal decision whether to pursue it. If they don't wish to do it, then that is their choice, just as not playing a traditional High Elf on the Horde is their choice. They deny themselves at every opportunity as they hold out for an ideal.

You *imply* it a great deal, however; or at least that is definitely my takeaway on your argumentation here. Continually re-circling to and repeatedly using it as a cudgel to beat down any and all possibilities and/or different approaches to bridge the expectation gap. Blizzard would function as a referee if we were playing some form of game that had rules and/or stakes, but as we're not that role is both unnecessary and irrelevant. Their intent is a known quantity as well, and is also immaterial since what is being debated is the merit of that very intent, not its substance. Yes, their word is the final word on the matter on the grounds of what is or will be done in the game - that is not in debate here. What is in debate is what should have been done differently. Their opinion is not a valid contribution to this debate if the debate is itself about that very opinion and whether or not it is correct, desired, or ultimately the best solution.

As long as it was the last word on the matter, it is a really solid cudgel and I will happily wield it. It IS truth until such time as we are told it is not. If they say something different in the future, then that becomes the truth as defined by those who can define that truth, which is their right as regards this work of fiction. And if that new truth is more to the liking of my opponents, then of course they will delight in wielding that particular cudgel when the time comes.


And as stated, if you think this is debate about what should have been done differently, I think you may have the wrong end of the stick. This is an active campaign, an almost certainly futile one, but an active one.

Blizzard changing its mind is equally immaterial, I grant - it is only a response to your continued employment of their opinion as a self-sealing argument, basically your position of "I"m right because they're right because their word is law and therefore no other answer can exist." This is not a tenable position when the very thing being debated is whether or not they were actually right about what they said. It's only a low blow because it undermines the very root of what you've been arguing, but that is actually its very intent - I am trying to illustrate to you the essential misapprehension you're laboring under. I don't want to make the truly insulting claim that you're being willfully obtuse, either; as I am unsure that is actually the case - so I'm left with trying to shift the proverbial Johari Window in such a way that you can see the argument from my perspective, and thus understand what it is I am actually arguing (and what I think everyone else on the pro-HE side of things has been trying to argue). Simply put, the developers are not an inscrutable and inerrant source of knowledge, and "Word of God" is not immutable law. Implying that it is, or arguing as if it were, is basically a non-starter when the very concept is that the developers came to a bad conclusion and justified it with subsequent faulty logic or reasoning. People are disagreeing with the developers' position, which they have every right to do (and if they truly think the developers got it wrong, should actually do).

As a description of how things currently stand as we understand it, then yes, I am absolutely right. I make no bones about that assertion, nor will I shy from using the commentary on this topic provided by the developers, particularly given how one sided it has been across the past decade and a half. Perhaps if there was a more equitable distribution of comments from the lore sources and senior developers on this topic using word of god would be less controversial, but use of word of god is controversial in this topic precisely because one side does have all the commentary on it's side, and the other side reduced to arguing why it was a bad decision.

It is also subjective to assume the pro High Elf starting point...that the developers came to bad conclusion.


I take the opposite point of view. The developers came to the correct conclusion, and the self interest of the pro High Elf community blinds them from seeing that in that a consideration the devs clearly value highly, the diversity of the factions, is disregarded entirely by that community. As the pro High Elf community does not value faction diversity highly, a decision denying them what they want based on that consideration is of course going to be one they object to and have difficulty understanding or accepting.


But valuing faction diversity is NOT an illogical stance, particularly given the clear regret they have exhibited over making Pandaren neutral and the importance of keeping Alliance and Horde distinct in terms of building an 'us vs them' mentality. Therefore, while the pro High Elf community is free to argue their case, it is demonstrable that is their reasoning that has been impaired by their biases.


They want High Elves on the Alliance and they have little regard as to what has to broken or upset to get them in other words. The developers, who maintain a holistic view of the game, had good reasons to make the decision they did.

Yes, we *know* what happened - everyone knows what happened. They do not agree with the basic substance of those interviews and Twitter posts, and have cited a wealth of evidence to the contrary of them.

No, they have posted their opinions. Opinions are not evidence. Evidence is either something in game or something a developer says that has not yet been contradicted. For example, the 2014 interview Ion had where he mentioned High Elves was evidence that High Elves were a possible option in a future sub-race system. This 'word of god' was later overwritten by the 2017 interview and 2018 Q and A where he ruled them out.

That is what they're doing, and instead of actually debating the merits or flaws of those individual concepts the tack so far has basically been to hammer the quotes of the developers repeatedly. Some people don't even give a fig about faction diversity, either; and even though I disagree with the notion myself that is still a valid position to have. To ask for a small loss of faction diversity in exchange for a rich and compelling gameplay experience is a fair proposition, to which we can agree or disagree based on our own proclivities.

The proposals of the High Elf community are innately flawed and disingenuous as they seek to reinvent the wheel in such a way that is no longer round i.e An Alliance High Elf that is genuinely differentiated from a traditional High Elf whilst remaining a traditional High Elf. These proposals fail because that is a contradiction.
Using developer commentary is a valid tool in such a debate. To not use developer commentary is to pretend that it is the opinion of one group of fans versus another group of fans which is not the case. In many cases, developer commentary is simply a better way of saying what many those of us opposed would have said anyway, albeit without gravitas of the 'official' position. Developer commentary will therefore continue to be used in this debate until such time as the developers change their mind, at which point the pro High Elf community would then begin citing developer commentary which would be their right.


And I utterly reject the idea that a loss of faction diversity can ever be quantified as small. The factions are diverse or they are not, and Pandaren already harmed faction diversity and that was a race designed as neutral, implemented as neutral and with a storyline based on neutrality. No faction had a prior claim to them when they were added. And despite that Blizzard seems to regret doing it, the lack of a neutral race since and the emphasis on diversity in the rejection of Alliance High Elves are evidence enough for that.
This is not equivalent to taking a race that has been Horde for well over a decade and duplicating them to the Alliance. The loss of diversity would be overall due to faction homogenization, but the cost would be born by the Horde as one of our races was made neutral.

All of these have been covered, countered, and detailed in any number of ways, so I'm not going to retread that here - referring to the above summation to demonstrate why all those various posts aren't essentially germane.

They have never been countered. People have posted opinions as to why they disagree with them, but they have never been countered. The form a cohesive body of commentary spread across fifteen years which, taken together, represents a summation of Blizzard's attitude to this topic.

Again, we've covered this - in summation, the Void Elves break the population argument on the face of it, and the similarity argument is countered by any of a galaxy of possible compromises or, barring that, just complete and utter acceptance of the loss of faction differentiation.

The population argument was cited against Alliance High Elves in the same breath as they were hyping the Void Elves. And this was done twice seven months apart. There are plenty of ways in which Void Elves can outnumber Alliance High Elves and yet still remain a small, crack group.

Fans rationalise apparent inconsistencies all the time. So long as a plausible explanation can be put forth that explains such an apparent inconsistency, there is a genuine question as to whether it actually is an inconsistency.

The simplest explanation is that Void Elves actually do outnumber Alliance High Elves now.

No, it's quite easy to interpret "Blood Elves are High Elves" and "the Horde is waiting for you." Very, very easy. It's also easy to interpret "you think you do, but you don't," and "don't you guys have phones?" All that those meme-worthy phrases have in common is their ease of understanding as well as their appalling lack of substance. And no, the Void Elves were not crouched as a compromise by Blizzard at all, but that is what they fundamentally are in this context. Their popularity among Alliance players is both understandable and simultaneously damning in light of what people feel "could have been."

Only the 'don't you guys have phones?' line displays an appalling lack of substance, and I put that down to the poor guy on stage being stuck in an unwinnable position.

Whilst classic's coming success will be used as final evidence that J Allen Brack was wrong all those years ago, we have to remember the context in which that line was delivered. Blizzard feared a classic option would not be successful, appealing only to a very tiny segment of the playerbase who would be able to tolerate it's utter lack of polish compared to the live game. Not only would the failure damage the brand, but Blizzard would have to spend a considerable amount to realise the idea of classic servers which could then be left as an expensive millstone around their necks for years to come. It took Nostalrius and a community numbering in the hundreds of thousands to make them realise their misgivings were unfounded, but those misgivings were logical and thus 'You think you do, but you don't' was a statement of substance, if high on snark.

Similarly, 'the Horde is waiting for you' is a statement of substance, if high on snark. Sometimes being snarky is not a bad thing, particularly considering how difficult it has proven to communicate to the pro High Elf community that what they desire is almost certainly not going to happen. As I said, every attempt to let them know that was 'gentle' was reinterpreted to mean that it was still possible, highly likely even. In the lead up to the April 2018 Q and A, you will find posts here that communicate an almost unshakeable belief in their own self generated momentum on the various forums. If Ion being snarky is what finally derailed that, then that was for the best.

I am not going to debate 'Blood Elves are High Elves' as that was a statement of unarguable fact, and if pro High Elfers class that as snarky then I believe it demonstrates their desire not to play the story they have been given but to rewrite it according to their own desires.

Very simple solution to your conundrum: change the underlying framework of the game as it currently exists. This has been done before, and it will doubtlessly be done again in the future. I've outlined several solutions to this already, and in this very post have even offered a solution that while less than ideal would still provide the desired outcome. If Void bling is sufficient to differentiate the Void Elves and Blood Elves, and weight difference is enough to differentiate Humans and Kul Tirans, then you've got a simple lever to differentiate the Blood Elves and High Elven exiles. Your argumentation, such as it is above, is flawed in that it assumes the foundation itself is not mutable when we know that it is.

But that is the thing. Nobody has ever actually proposed changing the foundation of the entire game as a solution, not really. They focus exclusively on Alliance High Elves and doomed attempts to reinterpret them which singles out the Blood Elves alone for duplication. Which is the point, the foundation is that the two factions are predicated on the races constituting them being distinct and diverse in order to create two distinct identities. If you bring down that entire edifice for everyone, then I would reassess my thoughts in the aftermath based on whatever the new configuration ended up being. As long as the attempt is to duplicate Blood Elves within the existing system, I will always voice my fervent opposition in defense of faction diversity and Blood Elven identity.
However, I doubt that solution would be as simple as you propose. There are plentiful far reaching consequences from such an action.

I've focused primarily on lore because that is my personal bailiwick and my primary concern - I don't care nearly as much about model and/or texture differentiation, though I concede it is generally important to many others. If you left it up to me (and didn't circumscribe my lofty ideals with limitations), High Elven exiles would already be playable - and so would Frost Dwarves, Iron Dwarves, Vrykul, San'layn Elves, Earthen, Mechagnomes, Vulpera, Sethrak, Arakkoa, and probably a dozen other interesting and lore-rich races I'd love to explore in the gamplay experience. Hell, I'd have the Legion and Scourge as their own playable factions with their own collection of races to play as well. It'd be a free-for-all smorgasbord for everyone (though that is admittedly unrealistic and unsustainable in a world limited by the constraints of time and money).

The problem with that approach is that lore is not the be all and end all of this debate. Lore is a component, but faction diversity is itself a gameplay mechanic, as I said earlier to foster the 'them versus us' attitude among the playerbase. A holistic approach is therefore necessary to really tackle this debate. Without that, and focusing on one aspect in particular, I am unsurprised that you have reached the conclusion that lore is sufficient to differentiate Alliance High Elves when we have been told that is not the case.

I agree with that, and it is quite low. The difference between you and I is that I find that a very unfortunate outcome and, of course, I disagree that the Blood Elves and High Elven exiles are so similar that the High Elven exile experience is apparently unworthy of exploration as a playable race.

The outcome preserves the integrity of the Horde by ensuring it's races are unique and distinct. The outcome preserves the identity of the Blood Elves as the true High Elves of the Warcraft franchise. The outcome is satisfactory. It is not perfect, as I wouldn't have even granted Void Elves to the Alliance (or Nightborne to the Horde) and would have argued to keep the models distinct, but the loss of a monopoly on the models is the price my side of the debate was expected to pay as part of the compromise.

That's a good question, the very question I've been asking all along - why didn't Blizzard go and do that? Why did they literally go out of their not to add High Elven exiles, and why did they create a variant race nobody had ever heard of before? Blizzard's answer, which you promulgate, is that the Blood Elves and High Elves are so similar that the High Elves were unworthy of inclusion. I disagree with the substance of that answer for the lengthy number of reasons I've already related - they've got a wealth of substantial lore separate from the Blood Elves, there's an obvious and emphatic player buy-in to them being a playable race, they've got history, they've been a part of the Warcraft universe for nearly two decades now. The sole thing they lack is differentiation in terms of their model or aesthetic. And, for some people (including myself) that's not sufficient grounds to exclude them.

The question, of course, was slightly rhetorical in that, as you state, we already have the answer. That High Elves are too close to Blood Elves because Blood Elves are High Elves.

Differentiation between them seems to keep going back to 'lore' and 'history'. Those are entirely subjective concepts that do not convey genuine racial difference. The result would look identical to a Blood Elf because they are the exact same race with the same culture and the same theme. It is the duplication of an already available option, and changing the text in under race information in the character creator is not enough.

The Void Elves are *a version* of the culmination of what people had been asking for - they're a compromise of a new and different lore angle coupled with "just enough" gameplay differentiation to pass Blizzard's arbitrary standard for a playable race. What is being disagreed on, then, is that arbitrary standard and whether or not Blizzard's implementation of it is a good one.

Blizzard's standards are not 'arbitrary', a variant has to be clearly a variant in order to qualify rather than having a different story. To remove that standard means that Allied race candidates can be differentiated solely by background rather than being a genuinely new option. Whilst above you expressed a desire for such a smorgasbord of a result, you also acknowledged that it would be unmanageable.

Alliance Void Elves are Thalassian Elves in no way physically differentiated from the Blood Elves, who possess a connection to a font of external power and echo the Blood Elves' affinity for the Holy Light with a connection to its opposite. They infringe on the identity of the Blood Elves in the same way a group of Humans on a different island with a variance in body size would infringe on the Humans, or if the Alliance recruited the Earthen, they would infringe on the identity of the Dwarves.

Void Elves are blue and can grow tentacles. That is the physical differentiation that exists between them and the Blood Elves. To state Void Elves are in no way physically differentiated from Blood Elves is an untrue statement.

And the comment regarding the Kul Tirans and Humans touches on an aspect of this debate not seen for a while, the variance of an Allied race whose parent is on the same faction. They are not subject to the same constraints, given that an Allied race that is a more extreme version of the parent race (i.e. Lightforged Draenei are a most explicit light orientated race than the Draenei) is not compromising an Alliance theme (light orientated Draenei). It is not coincidental that the Allied races most thematically distinct from their parents, the Nightborne and the Void Elves, are the ones present on the opposing faction to their parents.

"No True Scotsman" is a double-edged blade that can tear down any argument.

Not applicable in this case. Void Elves have embraced a new destiny with a new form. "No true scotsman" would only apply if I were talking about Alliance High Elves, yet my entire stance is predicated on them being identical to Blood Elves. I believe the 'no true scotsman' is actually employed by the pro High Elf side of the debate, who argue that High Elves are not playable because no true High Elves would ever serve the Horde.

And the Void Elves are elves that look exactly like Horde Blood Elves, so exactly how is that different? Why don't they incur the same harsh response?

Because they don't look exactly like Horde Blood Elves? You keep repeating this but I have never seen a blue Blood Elf.

It's unlikely that will be the case, but it is (again) also immaterial to the debate itself. If people think the developers got it wrong, then they should relate that to them for the proposed betterment of the game.

Which is of course why the debate exists, but it doesn't change the fact that it is still highly unlikely.

I don't disagree, all of those outcomes are more likely than the High Elven exiles becoming a separate and discrete playable race. More's the pity, really. The debate will continue on, though, because none of those outcomes address the principle point of contention - just like the Void Elves themselves didn't address that point, and as such weren't accepted as readily as an alternative outcome would likely have been.

No, Void Elves DID address the point of contention. As stated, nothing Blizzard ever does is without dispute. That a small group are unhappy at the clear compromise is unfortunate but not unexpected, but those who wished for a thalassian elf within the Alliance now have a thalassian elf within the Alliance.

[Ogren]

So what? Classic / Vanilla is set in the short period of time where the Blood Elves have ALREADY LEFT the Alliance. For this people, they are in a transition from Alliance to Horde. And they happen to be in regions which are not part of the Vanilla storyline. Stop spinning facts the wrong way. The only High Elves out there are dissidents and traitors to their race.

Edit: For once, try to shift your focus from your beloved Alliance to a PoV of the Thallasian race and you will realise that your case of "Alliance High Elves" is the exception to the rule. And the rule is, that the vast majority of Thalassian Elves who have survived the onslaught of the Legion, and the traitorous treatment of Humans afterwards, are the Blood Elves. Some of them become hostile because they follow Kael'thas on his path to damnation, but all others are the continuation of the Thalassian storyline. Dissidents in the Alliance or neutral dissidents do not matter in this regard. They have no stay in Thalassian matters anymore, because they chose to leave.

It would perhaps be more fruitful if you extended that same courtesy to others that you are demanding they give to you, even if you may disagree with them. (Though frankly I'm not sure who here has been challenging the Blood Elf perspective or grievances they have towards the Alliance, none of that really factors into the High Elf discussion even though it has inadvertently become a very factionalized debate.)

Anyway, even in the more likely event of Void Elves getting High Elf skins and thus no High Elf Paladins being outcome of that, I am not so perturbed by that. I was never personally planning to make a High Elf Paladin, more of a Hunter really, but I've always felt that spellcasters and rangers fit the race more than Paladins, to be quite honest. I will always think more about Humans or Draenei when I think of an Alliance Paladin anyway. Not to say I don't understand people who want that option available, but I don't necessarily think it's a very core theme of High Elves like the other aforementioned class concepts are.

[Alanar]

The Backfire effect is a beautiful thing, this thread is proof.

The guy got insta banned for hes finatical approach it seems. Hmm.. it doesnt matter how maby times these guys need to be proven wrong.. they never learn or stop.

Its quite sad tbh.

[Ielenia]

It would perhaps be more fruitful if you extended that same courtesy to others that you are demanding they give to you, even if you may disagree with them. (Though frankly I'm not sure who here has been challenging the Blood Elf perspective or grievances they have towards the Alliance, none of that really factors into the High Elf discussion even though it has inadvertently become a very factionalized debate.)

Anyway, even in the more likely event of Void Elves getting High Elf skins and thus no High Elf Paladins being outcome of that, I am not so perturbed by that. I was never personally planning to make a High Elf Paladin, more of a Hunter really, but I've always felt that spellcasters and rangers fit the race more than Paladins, to be quite honest. I will always think more about Humans or Draenei when I think of an Alliance Paladin anyway. Not to say I don't understand people who want that option available, but I don't necessarily think it's a very core theme of High Elves like the other aforementioned class concepts are.

Honestly, I think that even if the high elf race was made playable, they wouldn't have a paladin class option. The only reason the blood elves have paladins is because, at first, is because they literally captured a naaru, then tortured and experimented on it, extracting its holy powers, until it became a fallen naaru. Then the naaru later goes "s'okay, guys. We planned for you peeps to kidnap and torture and experiment on me, just so you could be redeemed! All part of the plan!"

The high elves left and/or were kicked from Silvermoon before that happened, and also, up until that point, the race itself was never about the Light, but magic. I also don't think playable high elves would be warlocks, either.

[FlubberPuddy]

The guy got insta banned for hes finatical approach it seems. Hmm.. it doesnt matter how maby times these guys need to be proven wrong.. they never learn or stop.

Its quite sad tbh.

Yeah good thing they banned this guy down below here, these kinds of posts are quite sad I agree. The thread can do without silly instigators making posts of no substance with the only function to incite infractional responses.

And this is why. Little children who can barely work a keyboard are the ones pissing and moaning about their fanfiction not happening. Get off the internet kiddo, this place is not for you.

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Honestly, I think that even if the high elf race was made playable, they wouldn't have a paladin class option. The only reason the blood elves have paladins is because, at first, is because they literally captured a naaru, then tortured and experimented on it, extracting its holy powers, until it became a fallen naaru. Then the naaru later goes "s'okay, guys. We planned for you peeps to kidnap and torture and experiment on me, just so you could be redeemed! All part of the plan!"

The high elves left and/or were kicked from Silvermoon before that happened, and also, up until that point, the race itself was never about the Light, but magic. I also don't think playable high elves would be warlocks, either.

It is mentioned that there were High Elven Paladins within the Silverhand as before the whole capturing Naaru thing they believed in the same Holy Light as Humans and Dwarves. During Legion, you would even be able to see High Elf Shieldbearers sometimes whenever you picked your Order of Wrath ability that auto-completed a WQ for ya.

Thus we know as recent as Legion they still exist.

All that said, I wouldn't particularly care if playable High Elves didn't get Paladins. I agree with Ogren that Rangers and Spellcasters fit their aesthetic more. And agree on them definitely not having Warlock (nor DH either).

Could even make story for them to gain Druids and we'd have another type of nature elf. Just as Nightborne and Blood Elves are two types of magic based elves.

[Hallowseve17]

faction diversity

You are so passionate and caught up in this High Elf thread, but what do you think of those who want Wildhammer Dwarves, Broken, Taunka, Forest Trolls, and any other reasonable, lore-established "allied race" being requested as playable? I'm interested in hearing your perspective.

[Obelisk Kai]

You are so passionate and caught up in this High Elf thread, but what do you think of those who want Wildhammer Dwarves, Broken, Taunka, Forest Trolls, and any other reasonable, lore-established "allied race" being requested as playable? I'm interested in hearing your perspective.

Several of those suggestions don't seem to offer much beyond what an already available option provides to the playerbase, for example Wildhammer are not a huge leap from Bronzebeard and definitely not in the same league as Dark Irons. Some, like the Broken, are completely viable.

However, all these suggestions have in common is that the proposed allied race is on the same faction as the parent race, therefore they do not compromise any sense of faction identity. So while I might feel the Wildhammer would be a bit of a waste of a slot, it's no skin off my nose if Alliance players want to agitate for it and I wish them luck in their endeavours.

[Ielenia]

[QUOTE=FlubberPuddy;51479629]It is mentioned that there were High Elven Paladins within the Silverhand as before the whole capturing Naaru thing they believed in the same Holy Light as Humans and Dwarves.[quote]
Really? Huh, learn something new every day.

During Legion, you would even be able to see High Elf Shieldbearers sometimes whenever you picked your Order of Wrath ability that auto-completed a WQ for ya.

Really? I only sporadically played a paladin during Legion. Always thought those were blood elves.

Thus we know as recent as Legion they still exist.

However, due to how rare they seem to be, I think their 'population' is not enough to warrant a class option like that, plus it doesn't fit with the high elf aesthetic and lore.

[FlubberPuddy]

However, due to how rare they seem to be, I think their 'population' is not enough to warrant a class option like that, plus it doesn't fit with the high elf aesthetic and lore.

It may not be and I don't mind that as a concession to getting playable High Elves. I disagree that it doesn't fit though since that's originally how they existed before the Naaru stuff.

"Blood elves were once high elves allied with the humans like the dwarves. Like the two others, high elves also believed in the Holy Light. A few were members of the Silver Hand, such as Mehlar Dawnblade, while others belonged to the high elven Royal Guard. The high elves began to distance themselves from Light worship after the Third War, during which Quel'Thalas came under the brutal attack of the undead Scourge. The survivors, now calling themselves blood elves, came to view the Light (which many believed had abandoned their homeland in its hour of greatest need) with contempt."

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Paladin_races

It fits with high elf lore, it just wasn't advertised very much/at the forefront of their society. All that said, I already don't expect them to come with Paladins should they become playable, but their existence does predate the "Blood Elf Naaru imprisonment Paladin" era, albeit minor hence not an expectation.

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However, all these suggestions have in common is that the proposed allied race is on the same faction as the parent race, therefore they do not compromise any sense of faction identity. So while I might feel the Wildhammer would be a bit of a waste of a slot, it's no skin off my nose if Alliance players want to agitate for it and I wish them luck in their endeavours.

It's no skin off anyone's nose for any race that gets included on either faction, despite agreements or disagreements to its addition.

But anyways, you speak of parent race, although I believe it is more likely if ever an implementation of "High Elven exiles" were playable then they'd more likely be seen on the Alliance side rather than Horde side.

Given the fact that, y'know, High Elven exiles are already part of the Alliance and seen among them throughout their territories. Whereas I don't believe a "High Elven exile" would ever become playable under the "same faction as the parent race".

High Elven exiles are indeed the exception to that "same faction as parent race" rule since they've already been cemented on the Alliance faction side for as long as WoW has existed.

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As I wrote that last sentence I just realized that Void Elves are another group of Thalassian exiles that are on the Alliance faction. Therefore it seems this divide will always hold true: Thalassian exiles on the Alliance and Thalassian not-exiles on the Horde.