Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

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https://66.media.tumblr.com/f5331fd5...67eo1_1280.pnj

Just dropping some HE fanart! First one is new

[FlubberPuddy]

The developers of WoW need to know what it is their playerbase wants, even if those things are contested - without voices asking for things, giving options, or even illuminating new possibilities you'd have a very poor fanbase at the end of the day.

Which is why I'm glad this thread, and others like it elsewhere, exist. Despite certain individuals wishing the topic shouldn't exist and attempting to stamp a false sense of "finality" to it given one or two instance of developer commentary.

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https://66.media.tumblr.com/1951a3a4...67eo2_1280.pnj

https://66.media.tumblr.com/0928aaa0...o2_r1_1280.pnj

https://66.media.tumblr.com/f5331fd5...67eo1_1280.pnj

Just dropping some HE fanart! First one is new

First two definitely don't look Blood Elf to me! And 3rd wouldn't be confused for one either considering all the very frank Silver Covenant wearage and blue.

[Magnagarde]

https://66.media.tumblr.com/1951a3a4...67eo2_1280.pnj

https://66.media.tumblr.com/0928aaa0...o2_r1_1280.pnj

https://66.media.tumblr.com/f5331fd5...67eo1_1280.pnj

Just dropping some HE fanart! First one is new

That's like two black high elves and one that looks like Genghis Khan's entourage lol

Couldn't be further away from WoW's presentation of high elves, but then again it is fanart, so it can be as ridiculous as the creator wants it to be.

[FossilFree]

That's like two black high elves and one that looks like Genghis Khan's entourage lol

Couldn't be further away from WoW's presentation of high elves, but then again it is fanart, so it can be as ridiculous as the creator wants it to be.

Ridiculous? You DID see the new Wrathion model, right?

[Merryck]

Just contributing my 'we already have too many elves' and 'high elves arent distinct enough from velves or belves' post in this thread.

[Magnagarde]

Ridiculous? You DID see the new Wrathion model, right?

What's that got to do with the Alliance's high elves? There's zero connection between the two. Even if Wrathion looks like a black elf, it's got absolutely nothing to do with high elves. He's a dragon.

There's zero black Alliance high elves. In fact, there's zero black high elves in general.

[Aldo Hawk]

I don't think there's an issue with that, personally; and I don't even consider it to be "pushing back" in a real sense. The developers of WoW need to know what it is their playerbase wants, even if those things are contested - without voices asking for things, giving options, or even illuminating new possibilities you'd have a very poor fanbase at the end of the day. If the the desire were insufficient I highly doubt we would've seen so much passion, so much input, and so much debate between all the various positions on the matter (dissenting or not).

If playable High Elves do happen, then great for those who want them so fervently - hopefully it's all they hoped for. And if they don't, well, that's unfortunate but it will be what it will be. Myself, I'm always on the side of taking chances and making gambles when it comes to the development of video games. That's what the gaming experience is really all about.

However, there are things in game that people don't like while others do, by it simply being contested it doesn't mean it should be one way or the other.

I think they take a different approach to it, because players liking/disliking something as a measure of what should be put in game is very flimsy.

Yes, I know you didn't meant that, but I think that what I said is something that is needed to be taken into account, at the end of the day, disliking something is just that. Half of what we have in wow would have not seen the sunshine if opinions against it would have been taken into account.

Pandaria had so many negative comments by it's theme that if it were decided by the community we would have probably not seen it, and I hope we will get the Vulpera, which many people dislike.

So... when should negative commentary about fan suggestions should be taken into account? When it demonstrates such flaw that the game could not handle it, and we have seen that in the case of High elves, they are as plausible as current playable races.

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Which is why I'm glad this thread, and others like it elsewhere, exist. Despite certain individuals wishing the topic shouldn't exist and attempting to stamp a false sense of "finality" to it given one or two instance of developer commentary.

The worst part is when certain individuals are constantly pointing that the topic should be closed because they brought up a certain point, but when you point to them that they just want the topic to be closed they just deny it. Acting as if all they want is to just participate and make points...

Such dishonesty is insulting.

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That's like two black high elves and one that looks like Genghis Khan's entourage lol

Couldn't be further away from WoW's presentation of high elves, but then again it is fanart, so it can be as ridiculous as the creator wants it to be.

I'm on the opinion that something like it should also be shared with Blood elves, or only Blood elves have it, due to their story clearly stating that their skin tones darkened to some degree due to the action of Fel.

I find darker skin tones a bad differentiator from Blood elves, or both or only Blood elves should have it.

So... Well, actually it is good, if Blood elves have it High elves don't, that could be another route, High elves simply being untainted Thalassians as an aesthetic differentiator.

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Ridiculous? You DID see the new Wrathion model, right?

What happens with it?

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Just contributing my 'we already have too many elves' and 'high elves arent distinct enough from velves or belves' post in this thread.

We never have enough elves and High elves are distinct enough from Void elves and Blood elves.

[Aucald]

However, there are things in game that people don't like while others do, by it simply being contested it doesn't mean it should be one way or the other.

I think they take a different approach to it, because players liking/disliking something as a measure of what should be put in game is very flimsy.

Yes, I know you didn't meant that, but I think that what I said is something that is needed to be taken into account, at the end of the day, disliking something is just that. Half of what we have in wow would have not seen the sunshine if opinions against it would have been taken into account.

Pandaria had so many negative comments by it's theme that if it were decided by the community we would have probably not seen it, and I hope we will get the Vulpera, which many people dislike.

So... when should negative commentary about fan suggestions should be taken into account? When it demonstrates such flaw that the game could not handle it, and we have seen that in the case of High elves, they are as plausible as current playable races.

Ultimately it has to be one way or the other, but we (as in the players and fans who enjoy the game) aren't the ones who get to make the final call on that. All we can do is plead our cases, make our arguments, and make our opinions on matter known in a clear and hopefully constructive manner. What the developers end up doing is based on a number of variables both known and unknown - what's relevant, what's needed for future content, what makes sense to the narrative, etc. etc. Both dislikes and likes factor into those decisions and are pretty important in the aggregate sense - fan outcry one way or the other shapes decisions and moves MAU's. I think it's true as well that the community also needs to understand the salient fact that they're not always right about things - sometimes what seems like a bad idea turns out great, or wasn't at all what anyone expected it to be (and vice-versa). Both unabashed praise and constructive criticism have their places in the calculus of the playerbase's relationship with the product itself. If enough voices cry out for a thing, and those cries are accompanied by well-crafted arguments and obvious overwhelming support, that thing is likely to come about.

[Goldielocks]

I don't think there's an issue with that, personally; and I don't even consider it to be "pushing back" in a real sense. The developers of WoW need to know what it is their playerbase wants, even if those things are contested - without voices asking for things, giving options, or even illuminating new possibilities you'd have a very poor fanbase at the end of the day. If the the desire were insufficient I highly doubt we would've seen so much passion, so much input, and so much debate between all the various positions on the matter (dissenting or not).

The fact of the matter is that the devs themselves don't want to make Helves. Like it doesn't matter what the playerbase wants. It doesn't matter how much money it'll make them. If they don't want to do it, then they won't do it. Pro-helfers can say "well they change their minds" until they're blue in the face. It won't happen until it happens.

For some reason people don't seem to understand that the devs are people and they too have opinions. They're not just ruled by money 100% of the time.

[FlubberPuddy]

The fact of the matter is that the devs themselves don't want to make Helves. Like it doesn't matter what the playerbase wants. It doesn't matter how much money it'll make them. If they don't want to do it, then they won't do it. Pro-helfers can say "well they change their minds" until they're blue in the face. It won't happen until it happens.

For some reason people don't seem to understand that the devs are people and they too have opinions. They're not just ruled by money 100% of the time.

People understand the devs don't want to do it (right now). Aucald's point is without people asking for things, giving feedback/possibilities in ways it could work etc then the devs wouldn't have much to go off of if they did want to revisit the idea.

Of course "it won't happen until it happens" but when it comes to Allied Races they've specifically said two things about it that makes the player feedback have existence in the matter:

1) They've came out and said certain races were picked as Allied Races due to players wanting them (LF Draenei, Nightborne, Mag'har Orcs, Dark Iron Dwarves are in this example).
2) They've came out and said "tell us what you'd like to see."

Devs do have their opinions ofc, but we already know a couple who are in support of the idea of playable High Elves (Candace Thomas who gave her own opinion on the matter, and Jeremy Feasel acknowledging them as a community favorite). Even Alex Afrasiabi called out a "don't give up hope" - which group of fans do you think he was referencing when he made that comment?

The point is, unless players speak about it, devs won't know if it's what their players want or not.

People aren't requesting High Elves expecting them to come. They're requesting them hoping they'll come. That's the difference.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

That's like two black high elves and one that looks like Genghis Khan's entourage lol

Thank you that is the look I was going for.

Couldn't be further away from WoW's presentation of high elves, but then again it is fanart, so it can be as ridiculous as the creator wants it to be.

You know, I'm okay with people not finding dark skinned elves their cup of tea, you do you (yes, even when you call them ridiculous) but the, idk, prejudice jumps at you when the only feedback you have is the skin color instead of the, idk, armor design? and that's like such a huge yikes.

I mean and the thing is that you just jumped at it lol, like, oof is see how it is.

First two definitely don't look Blood Elf to me! And 3rd wouldn't be confused for one either considering all the very frank Silver Covenant wearage and blue.

TY! The first guy also is kind of a "snow elf" concept, like what the High Elves of Windrunner Overlook could wear.

I'm on the opinion that something like it should also be shared with Blood elves, or only Blood elves have it, due to their story clearly stating that their skin tones darkened to some degree due to the action of Fel.

I find darker skin tones a bad differentiator from Blood elves, or both or only Blood elves should have it.

So... Well, actually it is good, if Blood elves have it High elves don't, that could be another route, High elves simply being untainted Thalassians as an aesthetic differentiator.

That's just author appeal, I also have dark skinned Blood Elves, I just like more varied skin tones like overall. https://66.media.tumblr.com/b83d0445...67eo1_1280.png

Personally, I think that Belves would have "redder" skin tones regardless of being light/dark, we see it in game, and how some fellbloods go full red, so I can see the contrast being between pale/ashy for HE and golden/tanned for BE

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Ridiculous? You DID see the new Wrathion model, right?

It's okay we all know black people (or elves) are just ridiculous on a fantasy setting.

Sure, we can deal with retcons to whole races like Draenei, Zandalari, Kul'tirans and Nightborne, but if you say that darker skin tones could be added to existing races? No sir that is just to darn far the lore is sacred (when it comes to add darker people) sacred I tell you!

[Aldo Hawk]

Ultimately it has to be one way or the other, but we (as in the players and fans who enjoy the game) aren't the ones who get to make the final call on that. All we can do is plead our cases, make our arguments, and make our opinions on matter known in a clear and hopefully constructive manner. What the developers end up doing is based on a number of variables both known and unknown - what's relevant, what's needed for future content, what makes sense to the narrative, etc. etc. Both dislikes and likes factor into those decisions and are pretty important in the aggregate sense - fan outcry one way or the other shapes decisions and moves MAU's. I think it's true as well that the community also needs to understand the salient fact that they're not always right about things - sometimes what seems like a bad idea turns out great, or wasn't at all what anyone expected it to be (and vice-versa). Both unabashed praise and constructive criticism have their places in the calculus of the playerbase's relationship with the product itself. If enough voices cry out for a thing, and those cries are accompanied by well-crafted arguments and obvious overwhelming support, that thing is likely to come about.

What I was saying is that we have Lightforged draenei (as an example) and players who dislike them but ended up just accepting it and moving on. As many things that have been added that are not the favorite of a big part of the playerbase.

There is where I see that disliking something is not that important as other factors, as those you pointed out -what's relevant, what's needed for future content, what makes sense to the narrative, etc. etc.- However, players liking something is pretty much more important than disliking it, but it may be a matter of numbers and of course less important than the quoted points.

The best example regarding this topic is Void elves. These were well received due to people liking the concept of a dark elf. However, there were some that didn't liked it. And everyone moved on, maybe commenting a bit on it from time to time, but nothing happened.

So, summarizing, some players being ok with something is more important than some not being ok with it.

[Alanar]

We never have enough elves and High elves are distinct enough from Void elves and Blood elves.

This is just.. uch /palm to you..

[Aucald]

What I was saying is that we have Lightforged draenei (as an example) and players who dislike them but ended up just accepting it and moving on. As many things that have been added that are not the favorite of a big part of the playerbase.

There is where I see that disliking something is not that important as other factors, as those you pointed out -what's relevant, what's needed for future content, what makes sense to the narrative, etc. etc.- However, players liking something is pretty much more important than disliking it, but it may be a matter of numbers and of course less important than the quoted points.

The best example regarding this topic is Void elves. These were well received due to people liking the concept of a dark elf. However, there were some that didn't liked it. And everyone moved on, maybe commenting a bit on it from time to time, but nothing happened.

So, summarizing, some players being ok with something is more important than some not being ok with it.

I don't think "like" or "dislike," stripped of context, is really what gives any position its intrinsic worth or value in terms of being important. It's the arguments behind the like or dislike that, to me, denote worth and value in terms of an opinion. Just liking something or disliking something is kind of meaningless without some form of presented rationale for its substance - I mean it's great information to have, but it isn't really actionable in the way this thread is kind of all about. In my view, a well-argued and highly-detailed "dislike" is manifestly worth more than a substance-less or threadbare "like," and vice-versa of course. In your examples with the Lightforged Draenei and Void Elves I personally found a lot of the negative opinions to be mostly without substance or argued badly as most people were just reacting with memes, or just stating a personal opinion without any kind of attempt at an objective critique ("ugh, who wants to play a bunch of purple Emo Elves," etc. etc.) Arguments full of misapprehensions or misinformation are also in the same boat as having little to no actual substance - perhaps even worse in that they can be persuasive and also factually incorrect.

To be succinct: valid and well thought-out arguments are what make an opinion important, not the subjective positive or negative spin of the opinion.

[Traycor]

https://66.media.tumblr.com/1951a3a4...67eo2_1280.pnj

https://66.media.tumblr.com/0928aaa0...o2_r1_1280.pnj

https://66.media.tumblr.com/f5331fd5...67eo1_1280.pnj

Just dropping some HE fanart! First one is new

Great work Thunder! You put a lot of detail into the armor designs. I'm impressed.
For the last one, it looks a little odd that he's not wearing a shirt. Other than that, these are fantastic. I especially like the texture you used on the war paint.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Great work Thunder! You put a lot of detail into the armor designs. I'm impressed.
For the last one, it looks a little odd that he's not wearing a shirt. Other than that, these are fantastic. I especially like the texture you used on the war paint.

I got myself inspired on Alleria for his armor to a t, well, or to his lack of Tee ;D bhahha.

But yeah, I was playing with the idea of being an aesthetic reason why Alleria looks like that that's not based on her being a woman.

[Magnagarde]

Thank you that is the look I was going for.



You know, I'm okay with people not finding dark skinned elves their cup of tea, you do you (yes, even when you call them ridiculous) but the, idk, prejudice jumps at you when the only feedback you have is the skin color instead of the, idk, armor design? and that's like such a huge yikes.

It's just fanart that's untrue to the depiction of what you're a fan of to begin with. Sure, you can go wild and creative, but don't expect nobody to point it out.

Ye I criciticized the skin color because it's inaccurate, why's that so surprising? You won't see me complaining about the Dark Iron dwarves being dark-skinned, but you should be ready to draw some flak if you create a dark-skinned Wildhammer. Judging by your reply, you seem to have expected some negative feedback over the inaccuracy of your fanart, putting it in there on purpose.

I'm on the opinion that something like it should also be shared with Blood elves, or only Blood elves have it, due to their story clearly stating that their skin tones darkened to some degree due to the action of Fel.

I find darker skin tones a bad differentiator from Blood elves, or both or only Blood elves should have it.

So... Well, actually it is good, if Blood elves have it High elves don't, that could be another route, High elves simply being untainted Thalassians as an aesthetic differentiator.

I'm a proponent of the effects of magic and living conditions within the game's universe being shown/visible. That's how it always goes with the various races in Warcraft. Some fel turns the skin mildly red or somewhat greenish, a lot of it turns it extremely red/green and so on. That's expectable. It's just that the facial features seem to be completely off and were pointedly made to look African/central-Asian and that coupled with the inaccurate skin color with high elves was my main point of contention. Other than that, it's pretty decent.

[Traycor]

Tried the Classic stress test today. As much as people in this thread talk about Blood Elves being the core Horde race, it's interesting that we have a version of WoW that will soon be released that does not have a single blood elf in the Horde (npc or playable). But High Elves will still be Alliance. Just an interesting thought.

[ItsWhimsy]

Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

High Elves are not going to happen, stop whining about it.

[Aldo Hawk]

This is just.. uch /palm to you..

And this is just... uch /pistolshotinyourfuckingface to you...

Orc elves, Troll elves, Gnome elves and Dwarf elves, dude, Naga elves, dude, DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUDE!!!

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I don't think "like" or "dislike," stripped of context, is really what gives any position its intrinsic worth or value in terms of being important. It's the arguments behind the like or dislike that, to me, denote worth and value in terms of an opinion. Just liking something or disliking something is kind of meaningless without some form of presented rationale for its substance - I mean it's great information to have, but it isn't really actionable in the way this thread is kind of all about. In my view, a well-argued and highly-detailed "dislike" is manifestly worth more than a substance-less or threadbare "like," and vice-versa of course. In your examples with the Lightforged Draenei and Void Elves I personally found a lot of the negative opinions to be mostly without substance or argued badly as most people were just reacting with memes, or just stating a personal opinion without any kind of attempt at an objective critique ("ugh, who wants to play a bunch of purple Emo Elves," etc. etc.) Arguments full of misapprehensions or misinformation are also in the same boat as having little to no actual substance - perhaps even worse in that they can be persuasive and also factually incorrect.

To be succinct: valid and well thought-out arguments are what make an opinion important, not the subjective positive or negative spin of the opinion.

Yes, of course, I didn't said it was what gave worth to the ideas. I just said that players liking something is more important than players disliking it. Given that there are things that players dislike and everything/everyone just got along with it.

That's my take on it, of course taking into account what players think is important, but some things are more important than others.

Also, on the other hand, there were negative opinions regarding Void elves and Lightforged such as coming out of nowhere with little amount of lore, it just being not enough for an allied race and more like a magnified reskin, etc... Of course the meme part of commentary is louder.

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I'm a proponent of the effects of magic and living conditions within the game's universe being shown/visible. That's how it always goes with the various races in Warcraft. Some fel turns the skin mildly red or somewhat greenish, a lot of it turns it extremely red/green and so on. That's expectable. It's just that the facial features seem to be completely off and were pointedly made to look African/central-Asian and that coupled with the inaccurate skin color with high elves was my main point of contention. Other than that, it's pretty decent.

Oh yeah, the faces, I didn't took a good look at them. Yes, it's kind of like an inuit/yupik face structure.

This I would say should be implemented on both groups no matter what if it ends up on developer line, given that the lore didn't stated that their faces changed. So that would be an actual bad differentiator unlike skin tones that can have an explanation that fit the existing lore.

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That's just author appeal, I also have dark skinned Blood Elves, I just like more varied skin tones like overall. https://66.media.tumblr.com/b83d0445...67eo1_1280.png

Personally, I think that Belves would have "redder" skin tones regardless of being light/dark, we see it in game, and how some fellbloods go full red, so I can see the contrast being between pale/ashy for HE and golden/tanned for BE

Well, if it's presented as concept for a suggestion one should argue if it fits or not. I think it does for both or just for Blood elves given the context.

Also. Now that I saw that Blood elf I would like to have it, it would further differentiate High elves from Blood elves if it's only applied to Blood elves, and it looks pretty good.

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High Elves are not going to happen, stop whining about it.

Pathetic. You just activated my trap card!

UNO reverse card, GO!