Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[matrix123mko]

For me "high elfs" idea ,that they are elfs who never given-up on Alliance and never give-in for Kael ways of magic addiction (Sunwell,Fel crystals), never even thought to ally with orcs+forsaken.

Image if your family killed by zombies, and you join horde to become comrades with said zombies .....................................not funny man

You conveniently forgot that these zombie are ruled by person who died for my family.

High Elfs always on Alliance side, not these gold-diggers blood elfs who cant dicide one day they want drown in fel , next day they want to be alliance once again, next they support Sylvanas, and then they shun some blood elfs for using void .... near drug nectar (Sunwell)

They side with whatever is the best for their survival, which, aside from Garrosh, is the Horde.

[Thalassian Bob]

My take on high elf heritage armor.

https://imgur.com/a/Yccob6W

I think third version is absurd but I wanted to get three of them.

Glad to see this thread hasn't reached complete creative saturation. These look great! I would love to have a tunic version of that third green one available for my blood elf hunter! Hell, I think having that first one as a tint option for the Sin'dorei heritage armor would be nice too. Just like how the Mag'har orcs have three tints of their heritage armor available corresponding to different clans. The Sin'dorei tints could be - Magister/Spellbreaker, Farstrider and Nostalgia.

I was going through the Nexus for the umpteenth time on an alt yesterday and, in my boredom, I decided to read the description for Grand Magus Telestra. And I thought it was really interesting:

It is rumored the Grand Magus Telestra tutored Prince Kael'thas. Though she believed the Prince allying with the naga was foolish, she could not support Dalaran imprisoning her people. Malygos only needed to remind her of this betrayal to gain her as an instructor for his mage hunters.

I had always been curious about how a number of high elves ended up in the ranks of Malygos' mage hunters. I thought that perhaps, after the destruction of the Sunwell, joining with Malygos would give the Quel'dorei who had decided not to return to Silvermoon after the Third War access to magical artefacts to aid them through arcane withdrawal. I had never really considered that some might join with Malygos out of resentment for the treatment of Kael'thas' forces by Garithos and the Kirin Tor who enabled his actions and stood by while he planned to murder a (former?) member of the Council of Six.

I always found it astonishing that so many high elves could remain loyal to Dalaran after the fiasco with Garithos and Kael'thas. But, I suppose I've come to see the rift between blood elves and high elves as something of a fantasy allegory for David Goodhart's proposal for a re-categorisation of the political camps in the 21st Century West - the Somewheres vs the Anywheres. The blood elves (with their patriotism and identities bound up with Quel'Thalas and the Sunwell) are akin to the "Somewheres" and the high elves, who have left Quel'Thalas for love (the Windrunner sisters), adventure (Vyrin Swiftwind), knowledge (Kirin Tor magisters) or ambition (Thalo'dan Privateers), more closely resemble "Anywheres".

Still, I'm glad that, in the case of the likes of Telestra, there were some high elves who did not return to Quel'Thalas after Arthas' assault on the homeland but still found the Kirin Tor's complicity in the attempted murder of Prince Kael'thas to be indefensible.

[Ielenia]

My take on high elf heritage armor.

https://imgur.com/a/Yccob6W

I think third version is absurd but I wanted to get three of them.

They look good, but they're literally recolors of the BE's heritage armor.

I'd much rather have them have something that is radically different from their Horde cousins, not just in color. Perhaps a little lion-themed, but not as blatant as how the Stormwind human armor tends to be. Or at the very least not bird-themed like the BE.

[cocomen2]

You conveniently forgot that these zombie are ruled by person who died for my family.



They side with whatever is the best for their survival, which, aside from Garrosh, is the Horde.

I really hope that you trolling, only things that would threatened their survival is Alliance because they JOINED Horde.

"They side with whatever is the best for their survival" :

1) side with Anduin,Jaina,Malfurion,Tyrande and co. (omega powerful demigods).
2) side with Baine(just a cow),Sadfang(just a orc),Vol`jin(dead troll),Gallywix(just goblin), (ONLY SYLVANAS ABLE TO DO SOMETHING)

You join 2) only if you got death-wish for suicide , that has nothing with SURVIVAL.





Funny part thus even if Sylvanas doing some shit right, cry-babies shout that she is evil -> from their narrative its seems Horde must surrender and show enemy belly then beg for their lives.

[Thalassian Bob]

I really hope that you trolling, only things that would threatened their survival is Alliance because they JOINED Horde.

Night elves were attacking the Sin'dorei before they joined the Horde.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Sentinel_spies

The Kaldorei sent sentinel spies to sabotage arcane sanctums across Quel'Thalas when the majority of their Thalassian cousins had been slaughtered by the Scourge and the survivors were either dying of magic withdrawal or faced impending doom from the Scourge forces still plaguing Eversong and the Ghostlands.

Why would Silvermoon consider joining an organisation that harboured forces who tried to attack them when they were at their weakest and most vulnerable?

[cocomen2]

Night elves were attacking the Sin'dorei before they joined the Horde.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Sentinel_spies

The Kaldorei sent sentinel spies to sabotage arcane sanctums across Quel'Thalas when the majority of their Thalassian cousins had been slaughtered by the Scourge and the survivors were either dying of magic withdrawal or faced impending doom from the Scourge forces still plaguing Eversong and the Ghostlands.

Why would Silvermoon consider joining an organisation that harboured forces who tried to attack them when they were at their weakest and most vulnerable?

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Sentinel_spies
Sentinel spies were sent to Quel'Thalas by the night elves in order to spy on the activities of the blood elves and sabotage them.[1] They were aided by the dwarf Prospector Anvilward. Most of their activities took place in the Ghostlands, where they built a headquarter and camps, but also in the Eversong Woods.


That is not High elfs, Blood Elfs poss a threat to any living creature (LOL now they can transform life into magic THX KAEL).
Some time later
"OOOO this guys enslaved Naru, lets not spy on them ..... and be f@ked in future."


I would say same thing, if it were NIght elfs doing blood rituals for BLOOD MOON. (spy on them any time you wonna)
If some race doing bat-shit level crazzy things, you better spy on them ....... or they gona summon void lords,pokemons,bad youtubers.

[matrix123mko]

I really hope that you trolling, only things that would threatened their survival is Alliance because they JOINED Horde.

They were already allied to Illidan so Alliance was not an option.

"They side with whatever is the best for their survival" :
1) side with Anduin,Jaina,Malfurion,Tyrande and co. (omega powerful demigods).

I see you didn't even bother to think about the timeframe. Anduin was a harmless child. Jaina was merely an archmage. Also, she was, in fact, neutral. Malfurion was asleep. Tyrande... Do you remember when she blew up the bridge she stood on?

2) side with Baine(just a cow),Sadfang(just a orc),Vol`jin(dead troll),Gallywix(just goblin), (ONLY SYLVANAS ABLE TO DO SOMETHING)

Cairne wasn't really impressive but he was a good warrior. Thrall was very powerful shaman. Vol'jin was great shadow hunter. Sylvanas was Sylvanas.

You join 2) only if you got death-wish for suicide , that has nothing with SURVIVAL.

Somehow it made blood elves survive.

Funny part thus even if Sylvanas doing some shit right, cry-babies shout that she is evil -> from their narrative its seems Horde must surrender and show enemy belly then beg for their lives.

Yes, Sylvanas is cursed on that matter.

- - - Updated - - -

They look good, but they're literally recolors of the BE's heritage armor.

I made them for fun. I wanted to show my experiment to you. Also, treat it like some kind of satire on how high elves are literally Alliance blood elves without fel.

I'd much rather have them have something that is radically different from their Horde cousins, not just in color. Perhaps a little lion-themed, but not as blatant as how the Stormwind human armor tends to be. Or at the very least not bird-themed like the BE.

I too would like something different in shapes. However, I don't think lions are good idea. High elves tend to use either birds or unicorns. I think some ranger themed would be nice.

[Thalassian Bob]

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Sentinel_spies
Sentinel spies were sent to Quel'Thalas by the night elves in order to spy on the activities of the blood elves and sabotage them.[1] They were aided by the dwarf Prospector Anvilward. Most of their activities took place in the Ghostlands, where they built a headquarter and camps, but also in the Eversong Woods.


That is not High elfs, Blood Elfs poss a threat to any living creature (LOL now they can transform life into magic THX KAEL).
Some time later
"OOOO this guys enslaved Naru, lets not spy on them ..... and be f@ked in future."


I would say same thing, if it were NIght elfs doing blood rituals for BLOOD MOON. (spy on them any time you wonna)
If some race doing bat-shit level crazzy things, you better spy on them ....... or they gona summon void lords,pokemons,bad youtubers.

You just said the Alliance would only threaten the blood elves if they joined the Horde. But, the night elves - members of the Alliance - threatened the blood elves before they could join the Horde.

Blood elves are a threat to "any living creature" just as much as any other race is a threat to any other living creature if they have a sharp stick and enough determination.

I've never understood the disdain for blood elves siphoning magic from animals. Are all the other races vegan? What's the difference between a blood elf extracting magic from a mana wyrm to sustain themselves and a human or night elf getting sustenance from meat?

In the Shadow of the Sun was good but it was so stupid for introducing the concept of certain elves being horrified by taking mana from living creatures. Unless, of course, all the elves at Quel'Lithien were vegetarian.

[Aldo Hawk]

You just said the Alliance would only threaten the blood elves if they joined the Horde. But, the night elves - members of the Alliance - threatened the blood elves before they could join the Horde.

Blood elves are a threat to "any living creature" just as much as any other race is a threat to any other living creature if they have a sharp stick and enough determination.

I've never understood the disdain for blood elves siphoning magic from animals. Are all the other races vegan? What's the difference between a blood elf extracting magic from a mana wyrm to sustain themselves and a human or night elf getting sustenance from meat?

In the Shadow of the Sun was good but it was so stupid for introducing the concept of certain elves being horrified by taking mana from living creatures. Unless, of course, all the elves at Quel'Lithien were vegetarian.

Except the magical addiction is an addiction, not a necessity like eat, drink and breathe. They were crippled by it, but in no means it was -needed-. Only the weak ones died by the magical withdrawal. This is why killing living beings for it is worst than killing for eating.

Blood elves decided to kill creatures to satisfy their addiction, High elves who were not ok with it decided to find other more inanimate sources for it.

[matrix123mko]

Except the magical addiction is an addiction, not a necessity like eat, drink and breathe.

No. Without magic the children and the old ones die.

They were crippled by it, but in no means it was -needed-. Only the weak ones died by the magical withdrawal. This is why killing living beings for it is worst than killing for eating. Vegetarianism isn't a thing.

So you want to kill the weak because of mana wyrm's feelings?

Blood elves decided to kill creatures to satisfy their addiction, High elves who were not ok with it decided to find other more inanimate sources for it.

Even if Warcraft there is not enough artifacts for everyone.

[Aldo Hawk]

No. Without magic the children and the old ones die.

You have literally quoted me after reading the next paragraph.

So you want to kill the weak because of mana wyrm's feelings?

Why do you consider this?

Even if Warcraft there is not enough artifacts for everyone.

Look, I don't care you just want to be contrary to me for the personal reasons you may have, but you are just jumping into conclusions you yourself have just made up.

[Thalassian Bob]

Except the magical addiction is an addiction, not a necessity like eat, drink and breathe. They were crippled by it, but in no means it was -needed-. Only the weak ones died by the magical withdrawal. This is why killing living beings for it is worst than killing for eating.

Blood elves decided to kill creatures to satisfy their addiction, High elves who were not ok with it decided to find other more inanimate sources for it.

With the exception of the Quel'Lithien elves, most high elves had the luxury of safety and security to dedicate enough time, focus and energy to dealing with withdrawal from the Sunwell. Or others like Vereesa didn't even have to try because they were looked after by their human allies.

The blood elves didn't have that privilege. They were in a fight for the survival of their species. They couldn't spend hours a day meditating or going out looking for more aesthetically pleasing means of sating their withdrawal. They needed to be strong because pretty much every able-bodied elf was needed in the fight against the Scourge. Imagine trying to fight an impossible war whilst trying to quit heroine cold-turkey. That's how high the stakes were, so actually sating their magical dependency was near enough as necessary as eating, drinking or breathing.

And you can't blame the blood elves for having an "addiction" they didn't even realise they had. Pretty much every high elf alive at the time of the Sunwell's destruction was likely not around when it was first created. You can't blame descendants for the actions of their ancestors. Even ancient Anasterian was probably not around or would have been very young when the Sunwell was made and the Thalassian dependence on its energies began. The energies of the Sunwell had become a part of their being, it wasn't just like choosing to smoke 20 cigarettes a day.

[Aldo Hawk]

With the exception of the Quel'Lithien elves, most high elves had the luxury of safety and security to dedicate enough time, focus and energy to dealing with withdrawal from the Sunwell. Or others like Vereesa didn't even have to try because they were looked after by their human allies.

Literally, this is a non issue and creates such situation that simply do not correlate with the lore. If you feel that the motivations are flimsy, it's not me who you have to tell that.

The blood elves didn't have that privilege. They were in a fight for the survival of their species. They couldn't spend hours a day meditating or going out looking for more aesthetically pleasing means of sating their withdrawal. They needed to be strong because pretty much every able-bodied elf was needed in the fight against the Scourge. Imagine trying to fight an impossible war whilst trying to quit heroine cold-turkey. That's how high the stakes were, so actually sating their magical dependency was near enough as necessary as eating, drinking or breathing.

Except it isn't. The word -feeding- creates some confusion that has been spread through the community, and the events of Suramar didn't helped either.

However, you are just assuming every Blood elf was a fighter of some sort. This is not the case. Civilian Blood elves have always existed, you are just painting it black/white and not acknowledging the greys. Inventing a situation by taking small parts of the lore is headcanon.

And you can't blame the blood elves for having an "addiction" they didn't even realise they had. Pretty much every high elf alive at the time of the Sunwell's destruction was likely not around when it was first created. You can't blame descendants for the actions of their ancestors. Even ancient Anasterian was probably not around or would have been very young when the Sunwell was made and the Thalassian dependence on its energies began. The energies of the Sunwell had become a part of their being, it wasn't just like choosing to smoke 20 cigarettes a day.

You just repeated two times that I 'blame' them for having an addiction... This is just you coming out of nowhere about my view on it. You don't know me. In fact, I don't even blame people in the real world for being addicted with substances they themselves took to begin with. Imagine a fantasy society with an addiction they got without having a clue...

That aside. You are putting a personal view on the way the lore was done in regards to the motivations of different groups of people. You may disagree with the way they were written.
That doesn't make that your view on it is the right one. In this case, there was a group that didn't wanted to feed an addiction with the lives of living beings, and I have just explained -why-.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

With the exception of the Quel'Lithien elves, most high elves had the luxury of safety and security to dedicate enough time, focus and energy to dealing with withdrawal from the Sunwell. Or others like Vereesa didn't even have to try because they were looked after by their human allies.

The blood elves didn't have that privilege. They were in a fight for the survival of their species. They couldn't spend hours a day meditating or going out looking for more aesthetically pleasing means of sating their withdrawal. They needed to be strong because pretty much every able-bodied elf was needed in the fight against the Scourge. Imagine trying to fight an impossible war whilst trying to quit heroine cold-turkey. That's how high the stakes were, so actually sating their magical dependency was near enough as necessary as eating, drinking or breathing.

And you can't blame the blood elves for having an "addiction" they didn't even realise they had. Pretty much every high elf alive at the time of the Sunwell's destruction was likely not around when it was first created. You can't blame descendants for the actions of their ancestors. Even ancient Anasterian was probably not around or would have been very young when the Sunwell was made and the Thalassian dependence on its energies began. The energies of the Sunwell had become a part of their being, it wasn't just like choosing to smoke 20 cigarettes a day.

And all of this might well be true -if biased in terms of value- but that's irrelevant.

The facts are simply that Blood Elves and High Elves dealt differently with the loss of the Sunwell and magical addiction, regardless of subjective value judgement.

Cause personally, I agree with you, this is what makes the Blood Elves interesting, but this is the sort of ideological divide that in universe separates HE's and BE's.

[matrix123mko]

Why do you consider this?

Because what you say is that killing for mana is worse that killing for eating and we agree that both are needed for a weak high elf to survive. This means that you think that striving for survival is evil when it comes to a high elven child.

Look, I don't care you just want to be contrary to me for the personal reasons you may have, but you are just jumping into conclusions you yourself have just made up.

There is a limited number of titanic artifacts on Azeroth and these are well protected. Then, we have artifacts created by ancient highborne which are limited too, as Kaldorei Empire has been destroyed. All that remains is artifacts made by mortal races. Most of them were produced by elves and humans. If elves need to consume artifacts to sate their addiction, they can't create new ones. Do you really think that population of mages eager to work with blood elves is big enough to sustain entire kingdom of mana addicts?

- - - Updated - - -

The facts are simply that Blood Elves and High Elves dealt differently with the loss of the Sunwell and magical addiction, regardless of subjective value judgement.

Yes.

Cause personally, I agree with you, this is what makes the Blood Elves interesting, but this is the sort of ideological divide that in universe separates HE's and BE's.

And this split makes things more interesting. I wish we had something like this in other races, for example, Dark Iron renegades who hate the Bronzebeard Clan.

[Aldo Hawk]

Because what you say is that killing for mana is worse that killing for eating and we agree that both are needed for a weak high elf to survive. This means that you think that striving for survival is evil when it comes to a high elven child.

You are very mistaken then.

There is a limited number of titanic artifacts on Azeroth and these are well protected. Then, we have artifacts created by ancient highborne which are limited too, as Kaldorei Empire has been destroyed. All that remains is artifacts made by mortal races. Most of them were produced by elves and humans. If elves need to consume artifacts to sate their addiction, they can't create new ones. Do you really think that population of mages eager to work with blood elves is big enough to sustain entire kingdom of mana addicts?

This was -never- something I discussed, you are just bringing new points for the sake of winning some sort of discussion.

The story went the way it did, I just explained what are the motivations of the group of the High elves and why they are the way they are.

In fact, the fact I prefer Blood elves over High elves should tell you what is my favorite part of the story and the one I side with.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

And this split makes things more interesting. I wish we had something like this in other races, for example, Dark Iron renegades who hate the Bronzebeard Clan.

Honestly it is wild for me there aren't MORE political dicisions tht lead to working with the other faction; Warcraft is ripe for this, it started when Alterac allied with the Horde way back on the RTS, and we have seen it with the HE/BE divide, the Grimtotem working with the alliance, the Pandaren divide, the Shadowmoon Exiles on the allaince in draenor and now lastly the Kul Tiran pirates siding with the Horde.

So much more could be done with this in terms of gameplay instead of just being relegated to unplayable lore.

[Obelisk Kai]

I definitely won't get into the nitty gritty of it because I have my own personal matters to attend to now, but the DH/DK thing is very silly. You must not realize that "Fel Green Eyes" and "Blue Glowy Eyes" for DHs and DKs respectively are part-and-parcel of features for that class.

They MUST have those restricted eye colors because it is a necessary identity of the class itself. Any other Blood Elf non-DH/non-DK class is not defined by their eye color and never were. Where in lore for Blood Elves (before Golden Eyes) is it said that Mages are defined by their Blue Eyes, Hunters by Blue, Warlocks by Green, Warriors by Blue/Green etc etc?

Even now, with the advent of Golden Eyes, it is still not something any of the classes for Blood Elves are defined by as Moorgard says "not all Blood Elves are now with Golden Eyes, but the potential exists. Priests and Paladins are more likely to have them" (paraphrasing) This means their race isn't defined even by a set eye color. But all of this is doing with race, whereas your DK/DH comparison is bringing up the class.

Demonhunters and Deathknights have always been restricted by eye color, nothing here has changed. Because that is a class feature, not a racial one. Golden Eyes are a racial feature, but it does not supersede the class restrictions of DHs and DKs.

You are misconstruing again. You are taking the gameplay restrictions put in by a class and then trying to compare it to a feature added for a race and on top of that trying to say "this is a lore reason".

Show me which of the other non-DK/non-DH classes for Blood Elves is defined aka restricted to certain eye colors? You won't find any, because the only class customization restrictions are imposed by DHs and DKs.

This is so obvious it doesn't need to be stated, but here we are. If you don't want to believe me then go ahead and ask any of the developers this too "why is Gold Eyes not available to DHs and DKs". The answer will be very obvious.

I'm surprised you brought up such a weak argument. A restriction based on class (which btw is a gameplay based restriction) =/= a restriction based on race.

Golden Eyes are not offered to DHs and DKs because their respective eye colors are associated with the class.

EDIT: Wanted to add, every race that can be a Deathknight has Glowy Blue Eyes. Every race that can be a Demonhunter has Burning Green Eyes.

That is proof they are class based features, not racial ones. DH and DK eye color isn't race specific to Blood Elves, it is class specific for every race - including Blood Elves.

As I wait in the queue for EU Shazzrah, it seems a moment in time has opened up for me to respond to this.

Of course I realise that the fel green eyes and the blue glowy eyes are important aspects of the Demon Hunter and Death Knight lore and that is the entire reason they aren't getting golden eyes. That is entirely the point. If, as you maintain, the golden eyes are solely a matter of player choice unmoored from lore then Demon Hunters and Death Knights would also be able to use golden eye colours. That Demon Hunters and Death Knights cannot demonstrates lore did in fact play a role in the decision making process, with certain classes disallowed BECAUSE of their lore. You make the assumption that lore is in play with just two classes, whereas it is gameplay with the eight who are not Paladins/Priests, when the truth is far simpler.

Golden eyes are something open to all thalassian elves who are not Death Knights, Demon Hunters or Void Elves because it is predicated on two points according to the developers, devotion (not necessarily zealotry) to the light and a connection to the Sunwell. Every Blood Elf not a Death Knight or a Demon Hunter meets those criteria. Every Alliance High Elf also meets those criteria. Gameplay is not really a factor in other words. Anyone who wishes to manifest golden eyes can where it makes sense.

What is exceedingly weird regarding your answer is how much you actually seem to agree with my fundamental points, perhaps without realising the broader consequences of doing so.

Even now, with the advent of Golden Eyes, it is still not something any of the classes for Blood Elves are defined by as Moorgard says "not all Blood Elves are now with Golden Eyes, but the potential exists. Priests and Paladins are more likely to have them" (paraphrasing) This means their race isn't defined even by a set eye color. But all of this is doing with race, whereas your DK/DH comparison is bringing up the class.

Not all Blood Elves have golden eyes but the potential exists for all Blood Elves (with the exceptions of Death Knights and Demon Hunters). Which Moorgard said and, as word of God, is automatic truth. Cannot be disagreed with.
As Alliance High Elves meet the same criteria as Blood Elves for golden eyes, they also have the potential to manifest that eye colour.

Paladins and Priests are more likely to have them, which is something most commentators in this thread have implicitly agreed for quite a while now on the basis that the more you work with a magic type as a thalassian elf, the more likely you are to manifest an eye colour that matches that type. This is of course the basis for the blue eyed Blood Elf request, as Blood Elf Mages should be able to manifest blue eyes as a result of working with the arcane. Given every Blood Elf Mage alive today had blue eyes not fifteen years ago, this would be a reversion rather than an entirely unprecedented evolution for them.

The final statement, that the race isn't defined by a set eye colour, is one I entirely agree with and I am a little surprised to see you make. It does not matter if they have golden eyes. Or green eyes. Or BLUE eyes. They are simply potential customization options of the one people. Just as golden eyes Blood Elves are not a separate race from green eyed Blood Elves, so blue eyed Alliance High Elves are not a separate race from either green or golden eyed Blood Elves.

- - - Updated - - -

My take on high elf heritage armor.

https://imgur.com/a/Yccob6W

I think third version is absurd but I wanted to get three of them.

The argument presented for Alliance High Elves is that they are a genuinely distinct option from Blood Elves, worthy of their own place as an allied race.

Yet the best idea for an Alliance High Elf heritage set is a recolour of the existing Blood Elf heritage set, a 99.9% copy of Blood Elf aesthetics and theme in other words. I don't begrudge this, after all Alliance High Elves and Blood Elves are the same people, but efforts like this prove my fundamental point that this request is a desire for the duplication of a Horde race to the Alliance in every manner possible, and a slight visual alteration (whether blue eyes or blue armor) doesn't disguise that.

- - - Updated - - -

Exactly. Normal skin does not need to be "fair". There's a lot of flesh tones that blood elves do not use.

Just make up a reason for high elves to get them. Magical transformation, magic abstinence, result of new habits, intermingling with humans, whatever.

Some of his works on character models:

There is nothing wrong with the concept of dark skinned unaltered thalassian elves.

There is something entirely wrong with the concept of dark skinned unaltered thalassian elves who are entirely Alliance High Elves.

This either leads to the conclusion that all the dark skinned elves were kicked out Silvermoon, implying a racial component to the divide which was not present previously OR, if we go with the 'dark skinned thalassian elves as the result of yet another transformation' idea, implies that the dark skin in the warcraft universe is something someone acquires as the result of some horrible event. Void Elves don't count of course, as the skin colours they acquired as a result of their transformation are not on the Human spectrum whereas all of these suggestions very much are.

Both possibilities are equally disturbing and whilst I am sure plenty of people are willing to argue why real world parallels with race would NOT be instantly flagged by the Warcraft community and ignite an unholy firestorm, I am fairly confident in predicting this will never come to pass as those parallels would definitely come up.

If dark skinned thalassian elves are introduced, and the concepts do look good, then they should be introduced as customization options for Blood Elves, the available unaltered thalassian elf option within the game and I am sure made available on the occasional Alliance High Elf NPC.

But they are not and never will be used as a point of differentiation between Blood Elves and Alliance High Elves. On that I am more than certain.

[scubi666stacy]

Honestly it is wild for me there aren't MORE political dicisions tht lead to working with the other faction; Warcraft is ripe for this, it started when Alterac allied with the Horde way back on the RTS, and we have seen it with the HE/BE divide, the Grimtotem working with the alliance, the Pandaren divide, the Shadowmoon Exiles on the allaince in draenor and now lastly the Kul Tiran pirates siding with the Horde.

So much more could be done with this in terms of gameplay instead of just being relegated to unplayable lore.

You know, I could imagine one instance of HE becoming playable. If we get a united faction from Horde and Alliance, then I really would not care if we get a HE offshot as an AR or customization option for the BE. But as long as the divide is there, I would like HE to stay NPCs.

[FlubberPuddy]

As I wait in the queue for EU Shazzrah, it seems a moment in time has opened up for me to respond to this.

Of course I realise that the fel green eyes and the blue glowy eyes are important aspects of the Demon Hunter and Death Knight lore and that is the entire reason they aren't getting golden eyes. That is entirely the point. If, as you maintain, the golden eyes are solely a matter of player choice unmoored from lore then Demon Hunters and Death Knights would also be able to use golden eye colours. That Demon Hunters and Death Knights cannot demonstrates lore did in fact play a role in the decision making process, with certain classes disallowed BECAUSE of their lore. You make the assumption that lore is in play with just two classes, whereas it is gameplay with the eight who are not Paladins/Priests, when the truth is far simpler.

That you know DK and DH eyes are part-and-parcel of their customization whereas for other BE classes it isn't means you intentionally made an obtuse post, for why, who knows.

The bold is not what I "maintain", I said throughout my whole post, numerous times in-fact, that the Golden Eyes are a player race choice, but the eyes of DH/DK are part of their class choice. Maintaining the overall message that Class restrictions supersede Race options in the context of this back-and-forth.

Also, certain classes being "disallowed because of their lore" again does not mean that only certain playable classes are restricted based on their class lore. I'm guilty of it in my post, but you're also turning this into a word mumbo jumbo. Let's keep it simple:

1) Moorgard states they didn't want to restrict Golden Eyes to certain classes for players.
2) Moorgard explains how they see Golden Eyes lore wise and how it will be handled for NPC Blood Elves.
3) Moorgard states players are free to RP(headcanon) whatever reason they want for their playable BEs to have Golden Eyes.
4) The Class restrictions of (or identity if you will) of Demonhunters and Deathknights supersedes Eye Color choice for players, restricting DHs and DKs to their respective eye colors due to class.

These are the facts. Interpret them however you wish as you've demonstrated (and I) that different people can interpret the same developer ("Word of God") commentary either way.

That you have tried to contact Moorgard for further clarification and received no response means your claims have yet to be validated. My claims aren't necessarily being validated either, but I'm sticking with the status quo here. You're the one that keeps putting forth "if Blood Elves are getting Golden Eyes, so too should High Elves" (the original context of all this back-and-forth) and not bringing any proof into the matter so the onus becomes on you to prove with evidence - something you lack.

Golden eyes are something open to all thalassian elves who are not Death Knights, Demon Hunters or Void Elves because it is predicated on two points according to the developers, devotion (not necessarily zealotry) to the light and a connection to the Sunwell. Every Blood Elf not a Death Knight or a Demon Hunter meets those criteria. Every Alliance High Elf also meets those criteria. Gameplay is not really a factor in other words. Anyone who wishes to manifest golden eyes can where it makes sense.

Moorgard literally said they "did not want to restrict players" (paraphrasing) that by definition means it's gameplay factoring in. I'm not sure how you're still arguing it isn't when the developer, "Word of God", literally makes a separate distinction for the players, but I guess everyone's a little surprising now and then.

The final statement, that the race isn't defined by a set eye colour, is one I entirely agree with and I am a little surprised to see you make. It does not matter if they have golden eyes. Or green eyes. Or BLUE eyes. They are simply potential customization options of the one people. Just as golden eyes Blood Elves are not a separate race from green eyed Blood Elves, so blue eyed Alliance High Elves are not a separate race from either green or golden eyed Blood Elves.

Not sure why you're surprised about it? No one's ever been arguing that High Elves and Blood Elves are different races. They've been arguing that the High Elves on Alliance deserves to become a playable option because it's been a very popular request and this group is very much removed from what Blood Elves are thematically, culturally, and faction-wise.

We don't really need to copy/paste Ornyx's comment on how our playable races are actually sub-factions within a given race, do we? Asking rhetorically.

- - - Updated - - -

As I wait in the queue for EU Shazzrah, it seems a moment in time has opened up for me to respond to this.

Enjoy! I've been having a blast, I logged in early enough into character select to not have to be in queues. I am enjoying it immensely despite never having played Vanilla!