Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Aldo Hawk]

They were HEs before kael renamed the race in honor of the blood spilled defending silvermoon. They are LITERALLY THE SAME AS BEs

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IM sorry but you are wrong.

Why can't you understand that those who are called High elves are not those who are now called Blood elves?

They are a different group, it's stated in the lore and we can find them in the game. They made an appearance at least once per expansion.

Don't mix the name of the species with the name of the group who decided to stay on the Alliance and call themselves High elves.

[Rhlor]

Why can't you understand that those who are called High elves are not those who are now called Blood elves?

They are a different group, it's stated in the lore and we can find them in the game. They made an appearance at least once per expansion.

Don't mix the name of the species with the name of the group who decided to stay on the Alliance and call themselves High elves.

They are not a different species they are the same race! It's as if you told me that a Spaniard and Portuguese are two different species!

[Musta]

Why can't you understand that those who are called High elves are not those who are now called Blood elves?

They are a different group, it's stated in the lore and we can find them in the game. They made an appearance at least once per expansion.

Don't mix the name of the species with the name of the group who decided to stay on the Alliance and call themselves High elves.

They are the SAME RACE, KAEL'THAS CHANGED THEIR NAME!

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Its even on ther 2.4 trailer. Goddamit.

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And SILVERMOON PREDATES THE HORDE. So its perfectly normal the high elves live there. ALSO SHOWED IN 2.3 TRAILER.

[FossilFree]

WoW (and really all games) need to move away from the pseudoscience of "race" in their descriptive terminology. "Race" doesn't exist, there are only clines. It's really no different from believing in a flat earth, "four humors," phrenology, "the great chain of being," catastrophism, etc.

Species and culture are the only two things that have any validity. And culture's validity is pretty shaky from a behavioral ecology standpoint.

[Musta]

Can you SEE ALL OF THOSE ELVES WITH BLUE EYES?

[Aldo Hawk]

They are not a different species they are the same race! It's as if you told me that a Spaniard and Portuguese are two different species!

You are the one bringing up that they are the same race, not me.

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They are the SAME RACE, KAEL'THAS CHANGED THEIR NAME!

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Its even on ther 2.4 trailer. Goddamit.

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And SILVERMOON PREDATES THE HORDE. So its perfectly normal the high elves live there. ALSO SHOWED IN 2.3 TRAILER.

They are not the same group.

By your logic, Mag'har aren't the same race, as void elves or lightforged, or even humans. You know, Kul'tiran humans.

High elves are not Blood elves, they are a different group with differences in their relationship with their former land, the Alliance is their home, and just as Void elves, they also want Silvermoon to become Alliance, is one of the props that were carried by Vereesa and now by Alleria and their Void elves.

They dislike the horde, they don't want to return to Silvermoon while the horde banner is planted in Quel'thalas' soil.

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Can you SEE ALL OF THOSE ELVES WITH BLUE EYES?

Can you please have a bit of decency?

We all know, even you, that the video portrays a specific point in time where they didn't used fel as a source of magic leaving Silvermoon with fel energies sinking into the bodies of the people in there.

In fact, it's nothing more than a proof that they were very careful with the way the story was told and show back then, and has been carried to this day.

If anyone feel any kind of snark from Musta's comment, I'm just gonna tell that it is nothing more than demagogy, not even saying or showing anything that is important to the discussion.

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WoW (and really all games) need to move away from the pseudoscience of "race" in their descriptive terminology. "Race" doesn't exist, there are only clines. It's really no different from believing in a flat earth, "four humors," phrenology, "the great chain of being," catastrophism, etc.

Species and culture are the only two things that have any validity. And culture's validity is pretty shaky from a behavioral ecology standpoint.

Alchemy.

/10char

Edit: Ok, I think I didn't made justice with your post.

In one hand, we have that the world of warcraft has tons of non-scientific things that can't be found in the real world.

But on the other hand, that is the way that it is, and a fantasy game having things that are not scientifically correct is not a bad thing. In fact, if it's done right, it helps to build interesting concepts that give credibility to such fantasy world.

Unless you are referring to a political view on the concepts that are portrayed in the game, in which I don't even want to talk about. This is a whole subject by itself, I suggest to open a thread about it in the place this forum allows for it (which I think it exists, I have seen political threads in this website).

[Villager720]

WoW (and really all games) need to move away from the pseudoscience of "race" in their descriptive terminology. "Race" doesn't exist, there are only clines. It's really no different from believing in a flat earth, "four humors," phrenology, "the great chain of being," catastrophism, etc.

Species and culture are the only two things that have any validity. And culture's validity is pretty shaky from a behavioral ecology standpoint.

Race exists as a social construct - just like laws and justice.

[Musta]

You are the one bringing up that they are the same race, not me.

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They are not the same group.

By your logic, Mag'har are the same race, as void elves or lightforged, or even humans. You know, Kul'tiran humans.

High elves are not Blood elves, they are a different group with differences in their relationship with their former land, the Alliance is their home, and just as Void elves, they also want Silvermoon to become Alliance, is one of the props that were carried by Vereesa and now by Alleria and their Void elves.

They dislike the horde, they don't want to return to Silvermoon while the horde banner is planted in Quel'thalas' soil.

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Can you please have a bit of decency?

We all know, even you, that the video portrays a specific point in time where they didn't used fel as a source of magic leaving Silvermoon with fel energies sinking into the bodies of the people in there.

In fact, it's nothing more than a proof that they were very careful with the way the story was told and show back then, and has been carried to this day.

If anyone feel any kind of snark from Musta's comment, I'm just gonna tell that it is nothing more than demagogy, not even saying or showing anything that is important to the discussion.

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Alchemy.

/10char

Edit: Ok, I think I didn't made justice with your post.

In one hand, we have that the world of warcraft has tons of non-scientific things that can't be found in the real world.

But on the other hand, that is the way that it is, and a fantasy game having things that are not scientifically correct is not a bad thing. In fact, if it's done right, it helps to build interesting concepts that give credibility to such fantasy world.

Unless you are referring to a political view on the concepts that are portrayed in the game, in which I don't even want to talk about. This is a whole subject by itself, I suggest to open a thread about it in the place this forum allows for it (which I think it exists, I have seen political threads in this website).

Tell me then, what were the blood elves called before kael'thas?

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Please, tell me the story of the high elves. I wanna read it. Because you claim a knowledge that no book has. So, enlight me with the story. Because ive read EVERYTHING and theres nothing there.

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And yes, Kul tiran humans are humans. Lightforged are draenei and maghar are just orcs.

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AH, and I want everything since Dath'Remar Sunstrider. Lets go.

[Aldo Hawk]

Tell me then, what were the blood elves called before kael'thas?

They were the High elves. That is a part of their past, not the present.

You are blinding yourself too much about this, you perfectly know what High elves we are talking about, and these ain't the Blood elves.

Please, tell me the story of the high elves. I wanna read it. Because you claim a knowledge that no book has. So, enlight me with the story. Because ive read EVERYTHING and theres nothing there.

I'm not here to give history lessons. Your claim about not being able to find 'anything' lacks meaning and importance. High elves nowadays (since before world of warcraft really, but nowadays) are not the Blood elves, they may be High elves, but they don't call themselves like that anymore and the group that stays in the Alliance still does. They are the High elves that are being talked about, bringing Blood elves in this manner does nothing but mud the conversation into a what is what that is not needed since the concepts are far from obscure. It's a clear matter that don't need such simple responses.

Quel'thalas fell after the Scourge's attack, some people didn't wanted to do with their old land due to decisions their former people made and joining the horde didn't help either. They still call themselves High elves and they are Alliance, not Horde, and they are not Blood elves.

And yes, Kul tiran humans are humans. Lightforged are draenei and maghar are just orcs.

Then why do you make such a drama about High elves being the same race as Blood elves?

They are a different group that is not playable even playing the most similar thing out there, that is the whole point.

[Musta]

They were the High elves. That is a part of their past, not the present.

You are blinding yourself too much about this, you perfectly know what High elves we are talking about, and these ain't the Blood elves.


I'm not here to give history lessons. Your claim about not being able to find 'anything' lacks meaning and importance. High elves nowadays (since before world of warcraft really, but nowadays) are not the Blood elves, they may be High elves, but they don't call themselves like that anymore and the group that stays in the Alliance still does. They are the High elves that are being talked about, bringing Blood elves in this manner does nothing but mud the conversation into a what is what that is not needed since the concepts are far from obscure. It's a clear matter that don't need such simple responses.

Quel'thalas fell after the Scourge's attack, some people didn't wanted to do with their old land due to decisions their former people made and joining the horde didn't help either. They still call themselves High elves and they are Alliance, not Horde, and they are not Blood elves.


Then why do you make such a drama about High elves being the same race as Blood elves?

They are a different group that is not playable even playing the most similar thing out there, that is the whole point.

Soooo you are not telling me anything, alright. Im done, they are the same race, period.

[Aldo Hawk]

Soooo you are not telling me anything, alright. Im done, they are the same race, period.

I took the bother to explain from where the High elves that are the matter of the discussion came, even being common knowledge.

I'm sorry if you believe that the only way it is plausible is through your own personal bias and invented set of check marks.

This gate keeping is ridiculous.

[Frenchvince]

You really think that the 2 factions will not be anymore? Is it because of the kinematics with Jaina and Thrall, who talk about making peace?

I do not think that will happen with all the tragic moments that happened during BFA.

Personally, I would never forgive the arsonist who burned my home or the killer who murdered my father ...

And to come back to the High Elves, they are and have always been at war with the blood elves, it's even more so since the Dalaran purge and the BFA (military campaign) events. The Sunreaver want to get their revenge.

And there is an interesting moment to note after the victory against Azshara, Lorthemar Theron said to Jaina: I will take my place alongside Saurcroc and Thrall, and pray for the Sin'dorei to support me.

He knows that there will be a possible break with his own people in making this decision.

[Rhlor]

You are the one bringing up that they are the same race, not me.

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They are not the same group.

By your logic, Mag'har are the same race, as void elves or lightforged, or even humans. You know, Kul'tiran humans.

High elves are not Blood elves, they are a different group with differences in their relationship with their former land, the Alliance is their home, and just as Void elves, they also want Silvermoon to become Alliance, is one of the props that were carried by Vereesa and now by Alleria and their Void elves.

They dislike the horde, they don't want to return to Silvermoon while the horde banner is planted in Quel'thalas' soil.

- - - Updated - - -


Can you please have a bit of decency?

We all know, even you, that the video portrays a specific point in time where they didn't used fel as a source of magic leaving Silvermoon with fel energies sinking into the bodies of the people in there.

In fact, it's nothing more than a proof that they were very careful with the way the story was told and show back then, and has been carried to this day.

If anyone feel any kind of snark from Musta's comment, I'm just gonna tell that it is nothing more than demagogy, not even saying or showing anything that is important to the discussion.

- - - Updated - - -


Alchemy.

/10char

Edit: Ok, I think I didn't made justice with your post.

In one hand, we have that the world of warcraft has tons of non-scientific things that can't be found in the real world.

But on the other hand, that is the way that it is, and a fantasy game having things that are not scientifically correct is not a bad thing. In fact, if it's done right, it helps to build interesting concepts that give credibility to such fantasy world.

Unless you are referring to a political view on the concepts that are portrayed in the game, in which I don't even want to talk about. This is a whole subject by itself, I suggest to open a thread about it in the place this forum allows for it (which I think it exists, I have seen political threads in this website).

You said they were different "species"! that's absurd they are the same race !!! Blizzard said it is the same breed! but they have different political positions !!!! for example there were Spaniards who were on the side of the allies during the second war! and there were Spaniards who fought on the axis side! That made those Spaniards who wanted Spain to be freed from the facist regime were not Spanish? or that those who fought on the eastern front on the side of the Germans were not Spanish?

They were all Spaniards and everyone has their own ideals and their own desires as to what the Spanish government should be. They did not want to found a new country, they wanted to return to Spain.
Thalassians living in the alliance territories want to return to quelthalas and change sides.

they are the same race they aim to return to the same country and live with the same people who live in that country just want a regime change.

[Aucald]

This argument seems increasingly semantic and pedantic. The High Elven exiles and the Blood Elves are the same species, and as "race" is an entirely social construct it's not really applicable in the real-world sense. In the WoW sense of "race," which is actually a taxonomy that doesn't concern itself with socialization and actually defines artificial barriers concerning playability and manner of playability, they are indeed a different "race" - in that the Blood Elves are a playable Horde "race" and the High Elven exiles are currently not a playable "race" and if they were they would likely be an Alliance one. So let's keep our terms distinct and not draw from real-world parallels are that inapplicable on both the level of the game systems themselves, as well as the fantastical situation as described in the narrative.

[FlubberPuddy]

Aucald puts it best.

WoW “races” are different from how we handle the term IRL.

In WoW, a Lightforged Draenei is a different “race” from the Draenei, despite both being Draenei.

A Highmountain Tauren is a different “race” from the Tauren despite both being Tauren.

In these examples, both “races” still call themselves as Draenei and Tauren respectively.

Blood Elves in WoW do not call themselves “High Elves” and the “race” is only playable as a Horde member.

On the flip side, High Elves still refer to themselves as High Elves and are not playable. And are seen much more often as members of the Alliance or among the Alliance races.

Aucald put it well.

I’ll put it another way: let’s not start playing stupid, everyone that spends even a modicum of time within this conversation can quickly see that the High Elves being asked for are an unplayable race of Alliance members.

Saying that people just want “a blood elf on the Alliance” is frankly dumb because Void Elves are exactly that, they have all Blood Elf history up to end of TBC till their exile by Rommath or whoever.

High Elves in the Alliance left the nation of Silvermoon before TBC even began. They have less shared history with the Blood Elves than the Void Elves do.

Also the recent talk about the new banner and how some suggest it could be a wild hammer race along with dragonmaw for AR shows the hypocrisy some have against Elven races and not the excuse of “we just got X race type, let’s get more unique ones”.

The thing about the High Elf request is people are lumping in their other agendas (as in no more elf races) into it and that’s why people are getting so uppity over the request imo.

If you’re not going to get enraged that a wild hammer or dragonmaw orc allied race would come next then you’re just being hypocritical when it comes to the high elf request.

Especially since there’s no bigger allied race request than this one.

[Aldo Hawk]

You said they were different "species"that's absurd they are the same race !!!

If this is some kind of joke I'll just say that I don't want to be part of it anymore.

You first came out of nowhere with the race lie, and now with that I called them different species.

You are not even saying the truth.

As @Aucald said, this argument is super pedantic and unnecessary.

Race in wow means a specific group of such 'race'.

Orcs, Mag'har orcs. Humans, Kul'tiran. Etc...

[Obelisk Kai]

This argument seems increasingly semantic and pedantic. The High Elven exiles and the Blood Elves are the same species, and as "race" is an entirely social construct it's not really applicable in the real-world sense. In the WoW sense of "race," which is actually a taxonomy that doesn't concern itself with socialization and actually defines artificial barriers concerning playability and manner of playability, they are indeed a different "race" - in that the Blood Elves are a playable Horde "race" and the High Elven exiles are currently not a playable "race" and if they were they would likely be an Alliance one. So let's keep our terms distinct and not draw from real-world parallels are that inapplicable on both the level of the game systems themselves, as well as the fantastical situation as described in the narrative.

This is, of course, incorrect, insofar as your conclusions are that the High Elven exiles would be a different race to the Blood Elves in gameplay terms based solely on their allegiance to that Alliance. The reason that this is incorrect, is that it relies upon a factor explicitly ruled out as being a differentiator, political allegiance.
Even the Pandaren, with whom a flawed equivalence is drawn with the High Elves, are treated as the same race yet whose members make a different choice at a particularly critical moment in their storyline.

The High Elven exiles are not a distinct race. They are a political faction of an existing playable race. Furthermore, real world parallels can be drawn with this situation (and indeed other fantastical situations within WoW) and attempting to say parallels cannot be drawn seems to be arbitrary, particularly given divisions in fiction and in real life are underpinned by similar factors (unsurprising as the fiction would have been informed by real world events).
I would propose that the real world situation that most reflects that of the Thalassian Elves is the nation of Cuba, who would be analogous to the Blood Elves, and the exile community who are political opposed to the current status of their homeland. Both groups are fully Cuban of course.

Blood Elves and High Elves are the same race. High Elves are therefore playable. The minor variation in lore between a Blood Elf and a High Elf exile does not invalidate that.

[Heartbreaker]

WoW (and really all games) need to move away from the pseudoscience of "race" in their descriptive terminology. "Race" doesn't exist, there are only clines. It's really no different from believing in a flat earth, "four humors," phrenology, "the great chain of being," catastrophism, etc.

Species and culture are the only two things that have any validity. And culture's validity is pretty shaky from a behavioral ecology standpoint.

Race exists as a social construct - just like laws and justice.

Nonsense. I honestly can't tell if it's sarcasm or you actually believe that.

[Musta]

Aucald puts it best.

WoW “races” are different from how we handle the term IRL.

In WoW, a Lightforged Draenei is a different “race” from the Draenei, despite both being Draenei.

A Highmountain Tauren is a different “race” from the Tauren despite both being Tauren.

In these examples, both “races” still call themselves as Draenei and Tauren respectively.

Blood Elves in WoW do not call themselves “High Elves” and the “race” is only playable as a Horde member.

On the flip side, High Elves still refer to themselves as High Elves and are not playable. And are seen much more often as members of the Alliance or among the Alliance races.

Aucald put it well.

I’ll put it another way: let’s not start playing stupid, everyone that spends even a modicum of time within this conversation can quickly see that the High Elves being asked for are an unplayable race of Alliance members.

Saying that people just want “a blood elf on the Alliance” is frankly dumb because Void Elves are exactly that, they have all Blood Elf history up to end of TBC till their exile by Rommath or whoever.

High Elves in the Alliance left the nation of Silvermoon before TBC even began. They have less shared history with the Blood Elves than the Void Elves do.

Also the recent talk about the new banner and how some suggest it could be a wild hammer race along with dragonmaw for AR shows the hypocrisy some have against Elven races and not the excuse of “we just got X race type, let’s get more unique ones”.

The thing about the High Elf request is people are lumping in their other agendas (as in no more elf races) into it and that’s why people are getting so uppity over the request imo.

If you’re not going to get enraged that a wild hammer or dragonmaw orc allied race would come next then you’re just being hypocritical when it comes to the high elf request.

Especially since there’s no bigger allied race request than this one.

This, thank you.

[FossilFree]

Nonsense. I honestly can't tell if it's sarcasm or you actually believe that.

It's science, and it's not my fault you haven't learned how variation works. Try taking a class or two, you might learn something.