Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[elbleuet]

Yep, because the lore is still valid until it has been contradicted.
For example, it was stated high elves had no groups in the past, this is now untrue given the silver covenant. It does not, however, change the fact they are not unified and that their views and ideals are on an individual basis.

This outdated encyclopedia was written during TBC, when Blizzard introduced the Blood elves. It stated the High elves were a dying race.
But in WOTLK, Blizzard changed its stance about them. And we can now see them in Dalaran, Stormwind, Kul'Tiras, Stromgarde, everywhere across Northrend, Zul Aman, the Thunder Isle and now in Telogrus rift. Not bad for a dying race.

They're unified under the banner of the Silver covenant, but also under that of the Kirin Tor, and that of the Alliance in general.

Your "encyclopedia" is outdated and means nothing nowadays.

[Broflake]

This outdated encyclopedia was written during TBC, when Blizzard introduced the Blood elves. It stated the High elves were a dying race.
But in WOTLK, Blizzard changed its stance about them. And we can now see them in Dalaran, Stormwind, Kul'Tiras, Stromgarde, everywhere across Northrend, Zul Aman, the Thunder Isle and now in Telogrus rift. Not bad for a dying race.

Well, when a race dies, it usually means they are slowly fading away which is the case with the high elves. There has been nothing stated by Blizzard or the storyline to suggest they are suddenly on the rise. Indeed, after TBC, Lor'themar states his blood elven people are in danger and despite being so incredibly weak, Sylvanas is forcing him to send troops into Northrend. The timeline has been, what? Thirty years or so? The race has not rebounded, and it is further supported that the high elves are fading away where Elisandre states they are diluting their bloodlines with lesser races.
So that has not been at all retconned.

They're unified under the banner of the Silver covenant, but also under that of the Kirin Tor, and that of the Alliance in general.

Only a GROUP of high elves has unified under the silver covenant. The majority are not a part of the silver covenant, such as the largest concentration in Dalaran who are neutral and do not involve themselves in the faction battles. This is your assumption based on what has occurred, but it is explicit that the silver covenant is a group into itself, it is not a group representing high elves everywhere.

Your "encyclopedia" is outdated and means nothing nowadays.

Just because you don't like what it says doesn't change the fact that the information is still relevant. You can complain that it is over a decade old, but until it is retconned entirely, large aspects of it are still very much canon.
Lore is permanent until it is contradicted.

[elbleuet]

Well, when a race dies, it usually means they are slowly fading away which is the case with the high elves. There has been nothing stated by Blizzard or the storyline to suggest they are suddenly on the rise. Indeed, after TBC, Lor'themar states his blood elven people are in danger and despite being so incredibly weak, Sylvanas is forcing him to send troops into Northrend. The timeline has been, what? Thirty years or so? The race has not rebounded, and it is further supported that the high elves are fading away where Elisandre states they are diluting their bloodlines with lesser races.
So that has not been at all retconned.

Only a GROUP of high elves has unified under the silver covenant. The majority are not a part of the silver covenant, such as the largest concentration in Dalaran who are neutral and do not involve themselves in the faction battles. This is your assumption based on what has occurred, but it is explicit that the silver covenant is a group into itself, it is not a group representing high elves everywhere.


Just because you don't like what it says doesn't change the fact that the information is still relevant. You can complain that it is over a decade old, but until it is retconned entirely, large aspects of it are still very much canon.
Lore is permanent until it is contradicted.

As I said, it's entirely retconned since High elves are no longer a dying race. In every expansion you will see and meet high elves, wether you like it or not.
And Elisandre isn't a Lore master. She lived under a shield during 10K years until she bit the dust but yeeee she knows the high elf population perfectly well. This is more a taunt or a joke because Vereesa was there than a reality, but again you bring it up because it suits your arguments.

Your informations are still outdated.

[Asotcha]

2. Fuck appearance. We want high elves for the lore. If all people wanted was to play a blood elf, they'd be playing blood elves.

How do you consolidate this statement with the existence of multiple forum threads and sentiments that void elves ought to get 'normal skin colors' to look like high/belves? This would invalidate the lore thing utterly.

[Varodoc]

How do you consolidate this statement with the existence of multiple forum threads and sentiments that void elves ought to get 'normal skin colors' to look like high/belves? This would invalidate the lore thing utterly.

On this point, I would like to say that void elves should get lighter skin tones independently from high elves. If, and big IF, high elves were made playable, void elves should still get lighter skin tones. It would just be a brilliant way to add more variety. I am thinking something like this:



Skin tones that are a lot lighter, but still present some visual indications that the character you are looking at is a void elf (such as the dark eyeliner or maybe some residual Void energy in the arms). Very similar to Alleria. Lorewise this can be justified as a result of the void elves making progress in researching the knowledge found in their home, Telogrus Rift.

[bdlovelace]

am i the only one that sees a blood elf dk. giving void elves light skin just turns them into a high/blood elf. this just proves it is all about getting a light skinned and majestic elf for the alliance and nothing to do with "the lore"

If, and big IF, high elves were made playable, void elves should still get lighter skin tones.

high elves are already playable. what isnt playable is alliance high elves. what would be the point of creating void elves and then giving them light skin to look identical to blood elves. kind of defeats the whole point doesnt it

[FlubberPuddy]

How do you consolidate this statement with the existence of multiple forum threads and sentiments that void elves ought to get 'normal skin colors' to look like high/belves? This would invalidate the lore thing utterly.

Because most people who say that are saying it under the context of "if we can't get actual High Elves". Look at Kyphael a few posts back. Look at some of the recent posts saying "well if faction cooperation of some sort happens then giving Blood Elves blue eyes would be a step in the right direction" (paraphrasing) that posters are saying here and elsewhere.

It's all under the context of getting an actual compromise because clearly anyone who's still coming here or elsewhere to say they want High Elves do not consider Void Elves adequate in that regard.

And the funny thing is unlike other requests they're not alone in that regard as places like Wowhead, content creators/media peeps like T&E and RedShirtGuy even commented on the poor statement made during that April Q&A. Hell even someone like SoulSoBreezy made a video about how potentially High Elves can happen despite disclosing how "FOR THE HORDE" he is.

Ielenia is right, if people truly wanted to play a Blood Elf they'd just roll one.

It's the same dumb ass logic in trying to tell someone if they wanted to play a Dark Iron Dwarf then just choose the charcoal skin/red eyes combo on Bronzebeard Dwarves.

Or those players asking to play Alterac Humans on the Horde, or the pirate allies of Horde in BfA.

People want the specific lore that goes with those additions, but they'll make do for what's available as long as it actually closely resembles what was asked for.

Mag'har Orcs are a great prime example of this. There's players who complain that "these aren't the Mag'har from Outland, but from WoD - they don't carry the stories of those Mag'har" but at least they can still make do because the major points are hit: Uncorrupt Orc in the Horde.

You don't get this situation with the Blood Elves nor the Void Elves. Because the High Elf request was never about "I want to play a Thalassian elf" but always "I want to play a Thalassian that's been loyal to the Alliance and never gave in to their magic withdrawal."

With Blood Elves, you have elves that aren't Alliance and gave in to "corruption" (aka Fel Magic use) and became mana vampires essentially.

With Void Elves, you basically are playing Blood Elves that decided to go down Void Magic instead of Fel.

Neither encompass the major points for High Elves: Alliance loyal and uncorrupted. That's the story the majority of those asking for High Elves want to play. Until Blood Elves or Void Elves can offer that, people will be asking for High Elves.

Just like people ask for Wildhammer Dwarves, Forest Trolls, San'layn/Darkfallen, Red Eredar, Alterac Humans, etc etc.

Also, all that aside, WoW is a vast game with a vast playerbase with immensely varying degrees of likes/dislikes. No request is going to be 100% cohesive or liked or disliked. That's just the nature of the beast. "How come some people want this and others dont???" isn't a compelling argument as that argument can be made about everything.

I can say "why is transmog in the game if multiple forum threads are saying they hate it?!" because it doesn't take a genius to realize if tmog is still here then the vast majority don't hate it over the minority that complain about it.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, tell me when the # of threads asking for "Void Elf normal skin colors" outnumber those asking for actual Alliance High Elves. Then you can make more sense with your statement.

[bdlovelace]

Because most people who say that are saying it under the context of "if we can't get actual High Elves". Look at Kyphael a few posts back. Look at some of the recent posts saying "well if faction cooperation of some sort happens then giving Blood Elves blue eyes would be a step in the right direction" (paraphrasing) that posters are saying here and elsewhere.

if you cant get alliance high elves, why would you get void elves with light skin which would be identical to a high/blood elf

as to your blue eyed blood elf reference, that is actually likely to happen as they already exist. we know from an ask cdev the fel taint is temporary it just takes a while to wear off. moorgard, wow senior narative designer, even elaborated on blue eyed blood elf NPCs recently, so they are not a "mistake"

https://twitter.com/Moorgard/status/1174787595542433792


since the sunwell is now a holy/arcane mixture, the potential for blue eyes is there for arcane mages, just like priests and paladins with golden eyes

https://twitter.com/Moorgard/status/1017104558462386176

I want to play a Thalassian that's been loyal to the Alliance and never gave in to their magic withdrawal.

they did give in to their withdrawal. they lived in dalaran a city filled with ambient arcane energy and artifacts. they just didnt drain from a mana wyrm and probably had a much easier time feeding their addiction. the only elves rumored to have the willpower to cold turkey might be the lodge elves, how they coped is up in the air. blood elves were never "corrupted" by fel, kaels most loyal followers who went with him were "corrupted" and became felblood elves

Also, tell me when the # of threads asking for "Void Elf normal skin colors" outnumber those asking for actual Alliance High Elves. Then you can make more sense with your statement.

they probably do outnumber them because in each alliance high elf thread the void elf light skin request can also be found, just like in this one

[Broflake]

As I said, it's entirely retconned since High elves are no longer a dying race. In every expansion you will see and meet high elves, wether you like it or not.

That doesn't mean they are no longer a dying race. Case in point, the passenger pigeon was still being seen everywhere before it began to wane and disappear. Saying "well we see them around" is a poor argument given
1. It has only been...what? 12 years?
2. High elves live as long as 3k years.
They will be around for sometime, it does not mean they won't exist anymore.

And Elisandre isn't a Lore master. She lived under a shield during 10K years until she bit the dust but yeeee she knows the high elf population perfectly well. This is more a taunt or a joke because Vereesa was there than a reality, but again you bring it up because it suits your arguments.

She was being honest, because she had the eye of aman'thul which allowed her to look through the timelines and see what transpires and who would come before her as well as what happens to them. She states this during the raid. If your 10k argument held any weight, she would have been baffled at who arrived, not spoken of each and every group specifically as well as what they were doing, such as Vereesa, who has 2 half breed children.

Your informations are still outdated.

And yet it has not been retconned, contradicted, or demonstrated otherwise by official lore. You can keep screaming the word outdated, but that does not mean anything when again, there is nothing to demonstrate a contradiction.

[FlubberPuddy]

they did give in to their withdrawal. they lived in dalaran a city filled with ambient arcane energy and artifacts. they just didnt drain from a mana wyrm and probably had a much easier time feeding their addiction. the only elves rumored to have the willpower to cold turkey might be the lodge elves, how they coped is up in the air. blood elves were never "corrupted" by fel, kaels most loyal followers who went with him were "corrupted" and became felblood elves

Not every High Elf lives in Dalaran. Not the ones in Stormwind, Theramore, those in Boralus, etc etc. You even mention the Highvale. Bringing up Dalaran High Elves in this case is moot.

High Elves didn't give in to their withdrawal.

they probably do outnumber them because in each alliance high elf thread the void elf light skin request can also be found, just like in this one

This logic makes no sense. But then again, a lot of your posts don't.

I guess by that virtue the amount of post against classic outnumbered posts in those threads for classic. Oh look at that, guess the "posts in a thread" don't equate to the actual existence of threads.

Not gonna waste any more time, especially with an apparent long-time lurker. Nice to know though that people follow my and Kai's conversations

[Broflake]

Not every High Elf lives in Dalaran. Not the ones in Stormwind, Theramore, those in Boralus, etc etc. You even mention the Highvale. Bringing up Dalaran High Elves in this case is moot.

Where did you get this notion?
The silver Covenant lives in Dalaran, they don't make up all high elves either, so I am not sure where your response makes sense here. Can you go into detail?

High Elves didn't give in to their withdrawal.

Yes they did. It is stated in a northrend quest they were tapping artifacts for magic.
It is stated by the quees in shadow of the sun that they were using mana tap to deal with their withdrawals.
It is stated by the encyclopedia only a few high elf individuals remained cold turkey.
You are going on a false belief.

This logic makes no sense. But then again, a lot of your posts don't.

Just because it does not make sense to you, does not mean it makes no sense. Don't be rude.

I guess by that virtue the amount of post against classic outnumbered posts in those threads for classic. Oh look at that, guess the "posts in a thread" don't equate to the actual existence of threads.

Not gonna waste any more time, especially with an apparent long-time lurker. Nice to know though that people follow my and Kai's conversations

It is simply a fact of the matter that the forums don't matter eitherway. They become echo chambers, and when people go against the echo, they get angry and passive aggressive.

[FlubberPuddy]

Can you go into detail?

Nah, I'll pick and choose who and when to reply to, just like some of the other recent forum accounts are doing. Are the official forums too boring now or something?

Replying to Kai takes enough effort (haven't even responded to his recent post yet), I have no wish to engage with bait posts from multiple fresh accounts any further that just lead to circular arguing. Re-read through the thread for an extensive discussion on topics that are brought up that have been brought up before.

There's better use of my time elsewhere.

[bdlovelace]

Where did you get this notion?
The silver Covenant lives in Dalaran, they don't make up all high elves either, so I am not sure where your response makes sense here. Can you go into detail?

i think he means the 2 in SW and 4 added in most recent content(BFA)

not sure what he meant by theramore. last i checked they are dead

i guess if you count valeera thats 5. just appearing as anduin arm candy in cinematics shes been more relevant then the boralus portal keeper

[Magnagarde]

The questline where the Horde is having a civil war and both alliance and Horde are working together again?
There is also only 1 high elf present...and Vereesa has a non-speaking role.
I cannot agree with your assertion.

Alliance high elf siege machinery and the Alliance's high elven leader are present within a very important event that ties up the war campaign between the factions. Alliance high elves have been present in the Suramar campaign aswell and, going further back, in both MoP and WotLK too, at equally(if not more) important scenarios.

You're free to disagree with my "assertion" because what I've made is just a simple, objective observation about both their presence and unplayability; that objective observation boils down to them indeed being present in many of the Alliance's most important moments and them being unplayable. Something that isn't core to a faction's identity wouldn't and shouldn't be present wherever said faction goes and, more specifically, whenever something big is happening for/to that faction. If something is however present and in a capacity that far outshines some other races that are already playable, while still remaining unplayable itself, then I have to question Blizzard's logic from the ground up.



There is quite clearly a lot of dissonance within Blizzard when it comes to high elves because if their presence within the Alliance and their history with it haven't been enough to make them playable, then they should - at least in scenarios like these - be replaced by races that quite clearly seem to mean more to the Alliance because they're actually playable. For some very odd reason Blizzard keeps throwing in high elven aesthetics and characters wherever the Alliance goes for the past 15 years, but at the same time isn't willing to aknowledge this through means of playability.

The point of what I'm trying to say above being.. if they're not going to be playable, then sideline them for good and give races that are actually playable more screentime instead as it seems like a waste of racial, faction-based representation during important events like these. Players who keep asking for playable Alliance high elves aren't unreasonable because Blizzard keeps giving them more and more reasons to ask for them. Blizzard is continously pushing Alliance high elves into the forefront to no logical end in the first place.

High elves, which were an Alliance-affiliated race at the start of WoW, were given in the form of blood elves to the Horde as a playable race, who were then given to the Alliance as a playable race in their void elven form, only so Blizzard can continously cram Alliance high elves - as we know them from the get go some 15 years ago - into important scenarios and events. It all makes asbolutely zero sense and no one but Blizzard is to blame for this.

[bdlovelace]

Alliance high elf siege machinery and the Alliance's high elven leader are present within a very important event that ties up the war campaign between the factions

its not an accident vereesa appears after the factions are working together. she could have been hanging on to allerias arm on the boat from the very beginning but she wasnt. she was raising children in dalaran. and we all know the context of which she appears in; a windrunner sister with 0 speaking lines. not an invisible alliance high elf army

[Magnagarde]

its not an accident vereesa appears after the factions are working together. she could have been hanging on to allerias arm on the boat from the very beginning but she wasnt. she was raising children in dalaran. and we all know the context of which she appears in; a windrunner sister with 0 speaking lines

The Alliance high elven ballistae were then also present in a Windrunner context I assume? If you boil Vereesa's presence down to being a Windrunner, present merely because of her connection to Sylvanas, then we could also boil down Lor'themar's presence to being a Farstrider in the context of Sylvanas and not an actual representative of the Horde. The point being that context in this case means very little when Alliance high elven presence is spread throughout every single WoW installment in the past 15 years and it almost always boiled down to more than a "Windrunner sister" context. Blizzards decisions when it comes to this are poorly thought out.

[THEORACLE64]

Its neveeeeeeeer gonna happeeeeeeeeen.

[Ielenia]

You're using the notion of not receiving a straight no, as a means of saying there is a possibility. If someone states you have a one in a million chance of dating them, then its no.

Except we don't know if it's "one in a million" chance, do we? You're the one making that comparison. And yes, them not giving us a 'straight no' does mean there is a possibility. You are twisting Ion's words in that regard.

Ion made it clear if you wished for the pale blonde, lithe, noble elf, you need to go Horde.

Except I don't want to play a blood elf. I want to play a high elf, the race that is currently unavailable to the player at the moment.

Based on lore, they cannot look different. If you care for lore, you would respect this aspect.

Yes, they can. There is already lore present within the game that supports the idea that both groups could be different.

It is very clearly going against it given their appearance in WC2, WC3, and Warcraft has remained the same and been established since their origins.

Um... excuse you? BEs/HEs looked the exact same as NEs until TBC came along. Saying that it "goes against their appearance since they first showed up" is just plain false considering the Thalassian elves already went through aesthetic changes in the game.

Suggesting it is an expansion of lore is a flimsy excuse to break it.

There is no "breaking of lore". What is "breaking the lore", though, is suggesting blue-eye cosmetics for the blood elves.

For no reason at all, high elves are different in appearance despite coming from the same region? For no reason at all, these differences don't show in blood elves? Come on. That is not a logical argument.

There are reasons. If you read my posts, you'd know them. I've already mentioned them several times.

So...void elves? They are altered.

But they're not high elves. They're blood elves.

Pr is important to them.

Then the void elves cannot be said to be made with the intention of being a compromise.

You get some of what you want, a thalassian elf, and some of what you don't want, which is an altered thalassian elf.

We got absolutely ZERO of what we asked for, since void elves are blood elves, not high elves.

What were blood elves called in the past? You are trying to argue semantics. Let alone if you play the recruitement quest, the research was done for the sake of Quel'thalas, not the Horde.

And Quel'Thalas is part of the Horde. They didn't do this to help the Alliance, or the high elves. Umbric and his team are blood elves, not high elves.

There is not enough lore or lore gaps.

There are more than enough possibilities. I've mentioned some, like fel corruption and withdrawal consequences

For one, there are warrior classes in both political groups. So a different build does not work. Posture arguments don't work because the way you stand =/= not enough reason. Everyone stands differently dude. That yis reaching.

Blood elves could not be warriors when they were implemented. That can be used to support the hypothesis that fel radiation made the blood elves' body weaker, and together with the possibility that high elves could have taken to physical exercise to help their bodies withstand the physical pains and effects from magic withdrawal can lead to a difference in build and/or posture.

Second, most blood elves did not feed on fel magic. So you are wrong in this aspect.

Wrong. Silvermoon was littered with fel crystals that radiated fel magic. So even if the blood elf did not consciously feed on fel magic, he or she was still being affected by it. Why do you think they had green eyes? Colored eye drops?

You are also incorrect to suggest the fel magic immediately weakens you.

"Infusion with fel magic, also called fel corruption, can manifest with positive effects in which case it can be considered a gift, or a blessing, like that of the eredar, or with negative ones in which case it can be considered a curse. Physical transformation normally ensues, such as a change to an individual's eyes or skin color, or heavy genetic mutations such as growth of demonic traits like spikes, scales, and horns. Negative corruption tends to lead to physical or mental deterioration, as happened with the draenei that turned into Broken and Lost Ones, or as happened with boars turned into enraged hellboars."

And I never said fel magic immediately weakens you.

Aesthetics is an important aspect. If it wasn't important to you, then you would request for void elves to expand their lore to include high elves. Which works.

Void elves are not high elves. They're blood elves. If Umbric and his team were high elves from Dalaran or the Silver Covenant or any other high elf group, I'd be happy.

Not false at all. Read my previous response above.
Exceptions to the rule does not disprove it in this case, it only enforces it. So no. Fringe groups dont mean you can play a race on the alliance.

It's not exceptions. It's the rule. A given race made playable does not mean all groups of said race suddenly band together. It didn't happen with any of the races in the game, so why would high elves be the exception?

Void elves are your version of a high elf.

No, they're just a version of blood elves. And we don't want blood elves.

- - - Updated - - -

How do you consolidate this statement with the existence of multiple forum threads and sentiments that void elves ought to get 'normal skin colors' to look like high/belves? This would invalidate the lore thing utterly.

Third paragraph in the very post you quoted.

And no, it doesn't invalidate the lore, at all. Giving new lore does not mean to invalidate the already established lore.

[Hallowseve17]

Once again, I'm in the neutral zone, leaning towards pro regarding playable high elves. They can either turn them all into void elves and open up high elf customization options, kill them off, or figure out an interesting way to make them playable in the Alliance. Ever heard of unification? Anyway, I have two things to say.

I see people mention appearance quite often. Yes. I know, high elves are blood elves, but a slightly different flavor. Same skin colors, hair colors, and all that jazz. However, nothing is preventing the developers from expanding the high elven story. The story is always changing, their story could easily change down the road. What's wrong with making them an allied race, not now but later, offering a few different and similar skin tones, war paint and tattoos, as well as different hairstyles, like the void elves?

Also, I'm tired of people saying supporting races in general are "flavor NPCs". I see this on the official forums often. No, they are so much more than that. If you say that you are ignorant. Are you all saying people who want to play Wildhammer dwarves, broken, jinyu, furbolg, ogres, forest trolls, taunka, and so on are obsolete? If the race is already part of the Alliance or Horde in some capacity, they SHOULD be playable. More cosmetic options and a more immersive world never hurt anybody.

[Varodoc]

am i the only one that sees a blood elf dk. giving void elves light skin just turns them into a high/blood elf. this just proves it is all about getting a light skinned and majestic elf for the alliance and nothing to do with "the lore"



high elves are already playable. what isnt playable is alliance high elves. what would be the point of creating void elves and then giving them light skin to look identical to blood elves. kind of defeats the whole point doesnt it

I already explained why from a lore perspective void elves could have this skin variant available to them. And this is a hastily-done edit, obviously the final product would be more polished and distinct.

high elves are already playable. what isnt playable is alliance high elves. what would be the point of creating void elves and then giving them light skin to look identical to blood elves. kind of defeats the whole point doesnt it

Except it doesn't, because I already explained that aside from the fact they could still have residual Void energy in their limbs, and anyway in combat they'd still have their Void form passive proc. If at that point you still couldn't distinguish between a void elf and a blood elf, you'd need glasses my dude.