Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Strippling]

Tbh it'd be very different since unlike Pandaren who were truly a neutral race, Thalassians are a divided race.
The Blood elves are fanatically Horde, while the High elves are fanatically Alliance.

That's not entirely correct. I would argue that the high elves are not fanatically Alliance. They have closer ties with the Kirin Tor than they do the Alliance. If high elves were fanatically Alliance then they would have had an observable presence in this faction war... which they have not.

With High/Blood elves you'd get a different scenario as they're prominently featured in Horde & Alliance content.

High elves in most cases are featured as representatives of the Kirin Tor aiding the Alliance, or in some cases even aiding the Horde.

[Ielenia]

No, it really isn't, this is a strawman in your case.
You're trying to ignore the context of why classic came into being and then equating it to high elves. This is simply ignoring the context and demanding they be comapred in a vacuum to justify an unrealistic expectation. So no, you can't try and declare it invalid just because you don't like it Ilenia.

It's not a strawman. This is exactly what you said. You brought a meaningless point to the conversation. The reason why Classic came about is irrelevant, since the subject here is about Blizzard "saying 'no' to something" then going back on that some time later.

So its about aesthetics? Good stuff.
Its a good thing nightborne look substantially different from night elves. Oh, and they can't be druids, and they don't have the wood elf theme.
The two are very different, but glad to know you're focused on the most basic of views and complaining about skin colors.
Hey, where is my flesh color for my nightborne btw? You know...color 11 and I believe 9?

... "Substantially different from night elves". You're joking, right? Highmountain tauren have more differences than her tauren cousins than night elves and nightborne. You literally cannot tell them apart from a distance. And it's not about aesthetics. I simply threw your "joke" back at you.

Primarily because the race is already playable. When it comes to game design, you want your factions to be distinct to justify their existence and give players a meaningful choice. If you made a race playable for every fringe group, you'd defeat the purpose of having factions period.

Yeah... except we have highmountain tauren that are basically clones of tauren with minor changes. Lightforged draenei that are clones of draenei with minor changes. Dark Iron dwarves that are clones of dwarves with minor changes. Etc, etc, etc. Not to mention that void elves are literally a fringe group.

Which never happened and does not exist.

Blood elves could not be warriors when they were introduced and it supports that hypothesis.

Lorthemar= ranger = not as badly affected by the loss of the sunwell
Liadrin= priest= affected badly.
Most high elves = rangers = not as badly affected

Source on those headcanons claims?

It does, because arcane is arcane is arcane. This is clearly demonstrated throughout the game. Whether you drain a demon or you drain a fel crystal, you're still draining fel magic.
You're trying to suggest the draining of living things is different from magical aritfacts. They aren't different, besides the former being more plentiful. Let alone the blood elves did so with a heavy conscious as demonstrated in the starter quest zone where you're shown how to use it.

It doesn't, because magical artifacts are nowhere near as common as living beings, and I doubt magical items automatically replenish their mana after drained. And demons? Really? I haven't heard a single piece about high elves summoning demons to drain them, and on top of that, it's highly unlikely they would do that, because fel magic is known to be corruptive, and, again, high elves to not believe in draining mana from living beings.

Which was a situation where both Horde and ALliance were working together, allowing the neutral force of the silver covenant to act.
Dalaran became neutral post legion, and as a result, the silver covenant has not shown their face period. Vereesa may like the alliance more, but they are not an alliance force.

Please, don't make me laugh. "Thee neutral force of the Silver Covenant" is just downright laughable. To say that the Silver Covenant is 'neutral' is a statement that you either have no idea what you're talking about, or are here in bad faith.

Cool, name what they changed post TBC.

I cannot, because that part of the lore is still open to be written. But the simple fact that the high elves heavily disagree with the blood elves is concrete proof that they no longer share the same beliefs.

No...no it doesn't. THat is not what bad faith means dude.
Iago in Othello is a good example of acting in bad faith. So...no...that holds no weight. You're just pissed off I won't play along with the what if scenario. I am not interested in going in circles on non-existent matters. It only results in the original argument being lost so you can preserve your feelings. Not interested.

Then leave the thread, then, since this thread is about "what if" scenarios. Nothing of interest for you, here.

Which is demonstrated to be no different from feeding off of magical objects. There is nothing to suggest high elves suffered more period. You THINK they suffered more but there is no lore stating it or supporting it.

Um... what, dude? Draining from objects is not the same thing as draining from living beings. There's a whole 'moral' thing behind that, especially since the high elves consider that to be "mana vampirism". It's not about thinking, it's a fact. Blood elves survived by draining mana from living beings. The high elves did not do that.

Uh...no...the reasons are different on a case by case basis. BE warriors was purely for class balance.
Worgen DK and Goblin DK SHOULDN'T exist but they made it exist out of popular request.
Worgen Monks don't exist because they cant control the rage of the curse.
So it is reaching without reasoning.

Um, no. They should exist because goblins and worgen have existed around the world for the longest time, since vanilla.

That isn't a strawman, try again

Ok, let's try again: what you wrote was a straight-up lie. Better? I think it's more fitting, now that I think about it.

So...your argument is "absence of evidence does not mean evidence of absence? Yeah no, it doesn't work that way here. If it isn't stated it doesn't exist. Giant turtle doesn't exist until they say it does. DIfferences don't exist until they say they do, and the difference sthat do exist, is cosmetic only.

I hope you realize your argument backfires on you, big time, since you basically just admitted that it doesn't matter what we see today since Blizzard can add more lore to the game to make retroactive changes, as is the case of the giant floating turtle island.

Encyclopedia: High elves are a dying race.
This is a reference to the high elf group, not the thalassian group as a whole.
So yeah, this was a weak attempt at trying to twist things to suit your argument.
Elisandre points it out as well how they are diluting their bloodlines.
Moving on

Dying race =/= dying past. And Elisande is not exactly the most reliable source of information, especially when she is taunting her enemies to get them riled up.

You mean the ESO with three different factions and human races which all developed in different regions and have different backgrounds including the fact that Bretons are essentially half mer, Nords who come from an ancient race of men and all of which developed in different regions for a significantly different period?
You mean the SW humans and KT humans who developed in different regions and developed different cultures?
Yeah, they're really comparable to high elves who developed in the same region, same culture, and are still in the same generation of people..
You keep ignoring the bolded part on purpose and it is particularly perturbing.

Except they don't live in the same region anymore. The harsh and sudden situations they were put in forced their hands. Normally cultures change slowly, but when you have drastic, near-cataclysmic events happen to a people, their culture tends to change fast to survive.

Where Ion made his infamous statement of "if you want a pale blonde elf.".
Aesthetics is important.

The "aesthetics" argument was through right out the window from the 10th floor right down into a trash compactor the moment the allied races were introduced to the game.

Put a void elf and a blood elf next to each other. Can you see the difference? Yep
If you put a nightborne next to a night elf, can you see the difference? Yep
Stick a blood elf next to a high elf. Can you see the difference? Nope.

You won't see the differences between them since most people go around in armor, and not naked. You will not see any differences between them in the game until it's too late, and by "too late" I mean you finding out which one is which by looking at the color of their outline, the color of their health bar, or the color of their name.

So the words of a CM, a dude who is low on the totem pole, means more to you than the lead developer of the game. Explains quite a bit.

That is not what I said, and you know it. I even explained it in the post, and you ignored it completely. I simply pointed out how Blizzard's HE stand is highly unlikely to be an unanimous position.

Why wouldn't they have the same racials if they are the same race?

Because they're not blood elves. They wouldn't have 'mana tap' and 'arcane torrent', for one, since they refused to go down that route. And, if my hypothesis that the high elves decided to train their bodies to help deal with the physical effects of their mana addiction withdrawal is correct, they could have some toughness-related racials that the blood elves don't have.

No, let us correct that statement.
You couldn't find any reasons you'd acknowledge in an honest way.
You aren't arguing in bad faith, but you're certainly not doing so in good faith.
I lost the rest of your post. I don't care very much because you selectively read anyway and, well, I have other things to do today.

No, there are absolutely zero impediments to the high elves being playable from a gameplay perspective. Blizzard already got the cat out of the bag regarding character silhouettes with the allied races, and that was the only impediment one would have from a gameplay perspective.

[Alixie]

Another shower thought: The Night Elves and High Elves share a common bond. They both remained loyal to the Alliance after an undead warlord wiped out their city and their race. They both have "traitors" who joined the Horde after their magical transformation through necromancy and fel magic. (Also renouncing their chosen religion, although the Blood Elves return to worshiping the Light) Unless they make Tyrande another mad queen, both her and Veressa hold the Horde - not just one person - responsible for the death of their people.

[brt2pp]

weekly reminder that high-elves are not going to happen, blizzard said they are all dead, and all that remained joined blelfs, you can be salty that blizzard gave helfs to horde in tbc but that's the fact in lore, and no amount of head canon and bringing out old lore is going to change it

[Pheraz]

Guys... No offense to any of you... But why don't you take action instead and mail blizzard about the desire for high elves or void elves skin/hair tones? I doubt they will ever read this thread on this third party website.

[Aldo Hawk]

Guys... No offense to any of you... But why don't you take action instead and mail blizzard about the desire for high elves or void elves skin/hair tones? I doubt they will ever read this thread on this third party website.

That is not an offense at all. It is indeed a good suggestion.

However, an 'open letter' was made, and this is also discussed on other forums.

And even tho this is a third party site, it is very dedicated to warcraft and very famous, I'm sure it has been read by them at some point. It is big and old, something like that does not come and by in a subtle way.

[Pheraz]

That is not an offense at all. It is indeed a good suggestion.

However, an 'open letter' was made, and this is also discussed on other forums.

And even tho this is a third party site, it is very dedicated to warcraft and very famous, I'm sure it has been read by them at some point. It is big and old, something like that does not come and by in a subtle way.

The problem I see with this thread is that it's all the time people that would like high elves for the alliance and people that feel somehow not like this. But I really don't see any reason to argue against each other because none of us can change it by arguing in this thread. The desire is there. Desire = money for blizzard. I think they are the correct address. Can't we make something like change.org? But imho the target should be realistic. Copy pasting the blood elves will be a no go for blizzard as they said this several times. But either a unique design of high elf outcasts or void elf customisation is realistic. The latter is the most realistic one imho

[Aldo Hawk]

Source on those headcanons claims?

Well... It does come from 'The shadow of the sun' book. This little bit is right.

And Elisande is not exactly the most reliable source of information, especially when she is taunting her enemies to get them riled up.

Do you know what is a good response to this nonsense?

'Varian begged for his life like a swine, he was pathetic'.

I know, I know. I will tell the whole thing when the 'Elisande said' thing comes out again. Unless someone gets the reference before that.

- - - Updated - - -

The problem I see with this thread is that it's all the time people that would like high elves for the alliance and people that feel somehow not like this. But I really don't see any reason to argue against each other because none of us can change it by arguing in this thread. The desire is there. Desire = money for blizzard. I think they are the correct address. Can't we make something like change.org? But imho the target should be realistic. Copy pasting the blood elves will be a no go for blizzard as they said this several times. But either a unique design of high elf outcasts or void elf customisation is realistic. The latter is the most realistic one imho

Of course, if changes are to be made so let's be it.

The end goal is to have what is being talked about, the High elves that have been seen whithin the Alliance all this time.

This would be impossible through the Void elves, but there are some suggestions that can modify the High elves but it requires some expanding on what they already are.

However, what is certain is that no race has been implemented without any change at all. Even too slight to notice. So even if no suggestion goes through, they would develop on them anyways.

Hopefully it would not be another 'Void elf' thing and something that was actually expected.

Some change.org things were tried, but unless there is help from people with audiences... It didn't went too far, given that it didn't had much advertisment to it. Some polls on this forum about the matter got more positive votes than the change.org votes at all lol.

[FossilFree]

weekly reminder that high-elves are not going to happen, blizzard said they are all dead, and all that remained joined blelfs, you can be salty that blizzard gave helfs to horde in tbc but that's the fact in lore, and no amount of head canon and bringing out old lore is going to change it

Like your headcanon about Blizzard saying they are all dead?

Or the fact that we just saw a new banner for High Elves at Orgrimmar? And siege equipment? Oh right, it doesn't exist because your headcanon says so .

[Obelisk Kai]

Like your headcanon about Blizzard saying they are all dead?

Or the fact that we just saw a new banner for High Elves at Orgrimmar? And siege equipment? Oh right, it doesn't exist because your headcanon says so .

They are not all dead, in two senses.

Blood Elves ARE high elves, so high elf civilization is thriving as Blood Elf civilization.

The High Elf exiles of the Silver Covenant also still exist, however they are heavily diminished and as the lore and developer commentary has confirmed, they didn't start from a high base. The introduction of Void Elves means the Silver Covenant is surplus to requirement, as why use them as a foil for the Blood Elves when you have the more important, more interesting Void Elves on hand?

The siege equipment means nothing. There were no High Elf exiles anywhere near them. The only high elf of any description who was near them was Lor'themar Theron.

And there was no new high elf banner at Orgrimmar, that seems to be genuine headcanon.

[Pheraz]

Well... It does come from 'The shadow of the sun' book. This little bit is right.


Do you know what is a good response to this nonsense?

'Varian begged for his life like a swine, he was pathetic'.

I know, I know. I will tell the whole thing when the 'Elisande said' thing comes out again. Unless someone gets the reference before that.

- - - Updated - - -


Of course, if changes are to be made so let's be it.

The end goal is to have what is being talked about, the High elves that have been seen whithin the Alliance all this time.

This would be impossible through the Void elves, but there are some suggestions that can modify the High elves but it requires some expanding on what they already are.

However, what is certain is that no race has been implemented without any change at all. Even too slight to notice. So even if no suggestion goes through, they would develop on them anyways.

Hopefully it would not be another 'Void elf' thing and something that was actually expected.

Some change.org things were tried, but unless there is help from people with audiences... It didn't went too far, given that it didn't had much advertisment to it. Some polls on this forum about the matter got more positive votes than the change.org votes at all lol.

High elves with neon blue tattoos plus fancy stuff in the hair like stripes of blue or sth could be enough to make them different from blood elves.
There was so much creativity in this thread... We need to forward this instead of arguing with grumpy people in here

[FossilFree]

They are not all dead, in two senses.

Blood Elves ARE high elves, so high elf civilization is thriving as Blood Elf civilization.

The High Elf exiles of the Silver Covenant also still exist, however they are heavily diminished and as the lore and developer commentary has confirmed, they didn't start from a high base. The introduction of Void Elves means the Silver Covenant is surplus to requirement, as why use them as a foil for the Blood Elves when you have the more important, more interesting Void Elves on hand?

The siege equipment means nothing. There were no High Elf exiles anywhere near them. The only high elf of any description who was near them was Lor'themar Theron.

And there was no new high elf banner at Orgrimmar, that seems to be genuine headcanon.

The fact that you are getting so defensive just proves you are worried that it is true. You are trying hard to convince yourself more than any of us.

And yes, there was a new banner.

[Obelisk Kai]

The fact that you are getting so defensive just proves you are worried that it is true. You are trying hard to convince yourself more than any of us.

And yes, there was a new banner.

Then link an image or proof of a new banner.

As for being defensive and being worried about something, that is the traditional pro High Elf response of seeing things that aren't there. I can assure you, I am not worried or defensive.

[elbleuet]

That's a strawman. A very whiny, and hyperbole based strawman. So all that was accomplished was a weakening of your stance since you could not counter my points.

You don't have any points. Your arguments are based upon outdated informations coming from an encyclopedia contradicted by what currently happens in game since +12 years as I previously pointed it out.

- - - Updated - - -

And yes, there was a new banner.

I'm curious. Mind giving us a pic of it ?

[Broflake]

It's not a strawman. This is exactly what you said. You brought a meaningless point to the conversation. The reason why Classic came about is irrelevant, since the subject here is about Blizzard "saying 'no' to something" then going back on that some time later.

It is indeed a strawman since you're misrepresenting my argument because you don't like the point made. The reasons for classic being made avcailable are not the same reasons as high elves. You're literally saying "I don't like your counterpoints so they aren't valid.". Yeah...no...that isn't how a discussion works.

... "Substantially different from night elves". You're joking, right? Highmountain tauren have more differences than her tauren cousins than night elves and nightborne. You literally cannot tell them apart from a distance. And it's not about aesthetics. I simply threw your "joke" back at you.

Not joking. Their build is different, their facial structure is different, their ears are differentm their entire theme is different. You're simply being stubborn.

Yeah... except we have highmountain tauren that are basically clones of tauren with minor changes. Lightforged draenei that are clones of draenei with minor changes. Dark Iron dwarves that are clones of dwarves with minor changes. Etc, etc, etc. Not to mention that void elves are literally a fringe group.

And all those clones stayed on the original faction , a fact you and many other helfers insist on ignoring.
Void elves aren't really a fringe group if they are the only group of their race.

Blood elves could not be warriors when they were introduced and it supports that hypothesis.

THe developers said flat out it was due to class balance with no lore reasons. Your hypothesis is not supported at all. Stop being stubborn.

Source on those headcanons claims?

Source on the headcanon argument for warriors? Or you're just going to keep screaming your headcanon over and over thinking someone will believe you?
I have Shadows of the Sun and devs.
You have nothing...like the rest of your argument.

It doesn't, because magical artifacts are nowhere near as common as living beings, and I doubt magical items automatically replenish their mana after drained.

That is literally how the high elves were feeding their addiction as stated in Shadows of the Sun and the Northrend campaign.

And demons? Really? I haven't heard a single piece about high elves summoning demons to drain them, and on top of that, it's highly unlikely they would do that, because fel magic is known to be corruptive, and, again, high elves to not believe in draining mana from living beings.

Do start reading my posts, I didn't make any of these claims.

Please, don't make me laugh. "Thee neutral force of the Silver Covenant" is just downright laughable. To say that the Silver Covenant is 'neutral' is a statement that you either have no idea what you're talking about, or are here in bad faith.

Cool, why are they not present in BFA?
Well for one, they live in Dalaran. Dalaran is headed by Khadgar. Khadgar has stated Dalaran is neutral. THe SIlver covenant, ergo, is subject to Dalaran's stance and that is why they don't appear in BFA until horde and alliance unite against Sylvanas, her sister.

I cannot, because that part of the lore is still open to be written. But the simple fact that the high elves heavily disagree with the blood elves is concrete proof that they no longer share the same beliefs.

They so heavily disagree they want to reunite. Mmkay. Again, the only thing different is a political stance and nothing more.

Then leave the thread, then, since this thread is about "what if" scenarios. Nothing of interest for you, here.

Nope. I am uninterested in allowing an echo chamber where you all nod with each other and pretend the issues that exist are not present.

Um... what, dude? Draining from objects is not the same thing as draining from living beings.

Lore says otherwise. THey are the same end result.

There's a whole 'moral' thing behind that,

But morality means nothing on the end result. You were trying to suggest draining these sources causes different results. This is not the case. The only difference is morals, which means nothing for getting high elves to be playable.

Um, no. They should exist because goblins and worgen have existed around the world for the longest time, since vanilla.

No...they really should not have. Death knights came into existence during WotLK, the version we play anyway, and there were no worgens present to be raised by Arthas. Same for Goblins. So they twisted up the lore and retconned them into existence even though they did not exist for the entirety of WotLK.

[QUOTE=Ielenia;51662045]
Ok, let's try again: what you wrote was a straight-up lie. Better? I think it's more fitting, now that I think about it.[/quote
You are free to think what you think, but you need to prove it to show its meaningful.

I hope you realize your argument backfires on you, big time, since you basically just admitted that it doesn't matter what we see today since Blizzard can add more lore to the game to make retroactive changes, as is the case of the giant floating turtle island.

Not really, because you ignore the context and read what you like.
Turtle didn't exist. So they could write it in.
High elves and blood elves are the same people, from the same region, from the same culture, from the same generation, so any changes the hgh elves see would need to be retroactive to the blood elves, who are the same people. Otherwise, it breaks lore. Context is important. Ignoring it for the sake of what you want shows you don't care about the lore.

Dying race =/= dying past. And Elisande is not exactly the most reliable source of information, especially when she is taunting her enemies to get them riled up.

No, but this is stated in the WoW encyclopedia and has not been retconned or contradicted since.

Except they don't live in the same region anymore. The harsh and sudden situations they were put in forced their hands. Normally cultures change slowly, but when you have drastic, near-cataclysmic events happen to a people, their culture tends to change fast to survive.

You mean...like the blood elves did? You do realize both high elf and blood elf went YEARS without knowing how to mana tap and they were both forced to survive the same way. So the notion that the high elves went through some grueling problem that the blood elves did not is false. Let alone that the blood elves had it even worse, because they stayed in the fallen remnants of their kingdom and had to constantly fight off the scourge.
While the high elves stayed in safe havens.'

After TBC happened, the blood elf culture went back to the way it was, the standard high elf culture, and there has been no difference ever since. Only desires to reunify.

The "aesthetics" argument was through right out the window from the 10th floor right down into a trash compactor the moment the allied races were introduced to the game.

Its a shame its so well supported that it bounced right back everytime someone says "what if we give them blue tattoos! That will make them different enough from blood elves!". It is laughable.
Or everytime someone brings up pale skin.

You won't see the differences between them since most people go around in armor, and not naked. You will not see any differences between them in the game until it's too late, and by "too late" I mean you finding out which one is which by looking at the color of their outline, the color of their health bar, or the color of their name.

Cool, so then you don't need them because blood elves give you everything you need in gameplay. There is no difference between them as you admitted, so there is no need to add them. Heck, you have void elves on the alliance, you can wear your armor and pretend to RP as a high elf.

That is not what I said, and you know it. I even explained it in the post, and you ignored it completely. I simply pointed out how Blizzard's HE stand is highly unlikely to be an unanimous position.

I know what you said, and you only seem to put worth into what the CM said and not the lead developer. A CM is not a developer. They can communicate what people want, but the fact of the matter is Blizzard doesn't care about what you want. Devs like Ion are the rockstars of blizzard, and what they say goes. High elves haven't been around to play for 12 years, and void elves being playable kills the notion of high elves.

Because they're not blood elves. They wouldn't have 'mana tap' and 'arcane torrent', for one, since they refused to go down that route. And, if my hypothesis that the high elves decided to train their bodies to help deal with the physical effects of their mana addiction withdrawal is correct, they could have some toughness-related racials that the blood elves don't have.

Except for the fact that your hypothesis is incorrect because blood elves such as Lor'themar demonstrate those who were physical based were not affected much by the loss of the sunwell. In fact, according to lore, the far striders, composed of rangers and warriors, did the heavy lifting before mana tapping was a thing. So no, the high elves dont have this mythical method of resisting magic withdrawal that the blood elves don't. THe story on agic withdrawal is already well documented.
It doesn't even matter either since the sunwell was reignited and the high elves benefit from it as well.

No, there are absolutely zero impediments to the high elves being playable from a gameplay perspective. Blizzard already got the cat out of the bag regarding character silhouettes with the allied races, and that was the only impediment one would have from a gameplay perspective.

And they promptly put the notion away when ion stated flatly if you want a pale blonde elf the horde is waiting for you. Gameplay is a barrier you insist on ignoring. AR didn't do anything for you. You just think it did.

You don't have any points. Your arguments are based upon outdated informations coming from an encyclopedia contradicted by what currently happens in game since +12 years as I previously pointed it out.

Which is why you have completely failed at refuting any of the points with any information besides saying I am wrong. This is just Danthe's law in full effect.

[Ielenia]

Well... It does come from 'The shadow of the sun' book. This little bit is right.

I've just read Lor'Themar's "In the Shadow of the Sun" 6-page short story, which is what I assume you meant, since I could not find any actual book named "Shadow of the Sun", and there is no mention of Lady Liadrin's suffering, there. Or anyone's, for that matters, regarding this context.

[Combatbutler]

I've just read Lor'Themar's "In the Shadow of the Sun" 6-page short story, which is what I assume you meant, since I could not find any actual book named "Shadow of the Sun", and there is no mention of Lady Liadrin's suffering, there. Or anyone's, for that matters, regarding this context.

It is in blood of the highborne.

[Ielenia]

It is indeed a strawman since you're misrepresenting my argument because you don't like the point made. The reasons for classic being made avcailable are not the same reasons as high elves. You're literally saying "I don't like your counterpoints so they aren't valid.". Yeah...no...that isn't how a discussion works.

It's not about "not liking" your counterpoints, it's just a fact of your "counterpoints" being irrelevant. The reason Classic was released has nothing to do with this. Classic servers, regardless of the reason of their implementation, is still a valid case of Blizzard always saying "no" to something, but then eventually turning around and changing their minds.

Not joking. Their build is different, their facial structure is different, their ears are differentm their entire theme is different. You're simply being stubborn.

There is no "stubborness". Put both in armor, and around the world of Azeroth, fighting and moving, and you simply be unable to tell the difference between the two before the color of their name, the color of their outline, or the color of their health bar tells you which faction, and therefore which race, they are.

And all those clones stayed on the original faction , a fact you and many other helfers insist on ignoring.
Void elves aren't really a fringe group if they are the only group of their race.

Nightborne and void elves. Clones of races from opposite factions. And the void elves are a fringe group. They're a fringe group of blood elves.

THe developers said flat out it was due to class balance with no lore reasons. Your hypothesis is not supported at all. Stop being stubborn.

It is still something that happened in-game that could be extrapolated and expanded into actual lore, which is my point.

Source on the headcanon argument for warriors? Or you're just going to keep screaming your headcanon over and over thinking someone will believe you?
I have Shadows of the Sun and devs.
You have nothing...like the rest of your argument.

I've read the "In the Shadow of the Sun" Lor'themar story, and there is no mention of any of what I quoted.

That is literally how the high elves were feeding their addiction as stated in Shadows of the Sun and the Northrend campaign.

And, again, magical artifacts are not common enough to sate their addiction. Otherwise, why would the blood elves have to rely on "mana vampirism" in the first place, if magical artifacts were enough to stave off suffering?

Cool, why are they not present in BFA?
Well for one, they live in Dalaran. Dalaran is headed by Khadgar. Khadgar has stated Dalaran is neutral. THe SIlver covenant, ergo, is subject to Dalaran's stance and that is why they don't appear in BFA until horde and alliance unite against Sylvanas, her sister.

Because they are not a playable race, yet. Simple enough. I guarantee you that if high elves are made playable, you'll see plenty more HE settlements around. Just like it happened with every single playable race in the game.

Nope. I am uninterested in allowing an echo chamber where you all nod with each other and pretend the issues that exist are not present.

Pfft. Like what you "want to allow" matters any. You're not the mod of this forum to decide what posters can do.

Lore says otherwise. THey are the same end result.

Quote mining. Nice.gif

But morality means nothing on the end result. You were trying to suggest draining these sources causes different results. This is not the case. The only difference is morals, which means nothing for getting high elves to be playable.

Nope. Absolutely false. I never even suggested such a thing. From the get-go I pointed out it's a moral standpoint, not a results standpoint.

No...they really should not have. Death knights came into existence during WotLK, the version we play anyway, and there were no worgens present to be raised by Arthas. Same for Goblins. So they twisted up the lore and retconned them into existence even though they did not exist for the entirety of WotLK.

Um... excuse me? "There were no worgens or goblins present"? Are you nuts? What do you think populated Booty Bay? Or Everlook? Or Gadgetzan? Murlocs, perhaps? And have you ever been in Silverpine Forest at all before Cataclysm?

You are free to think what you think, but you need to prove it to show its meaningful.

I already have. Several times. I've shown you how I never stated what you claim I did. That's what a strawman is.

Not really, because you ignore the context and read what you like.
Turtle didn't exist. So they could write it in.
High elves and blood elves are the same people, from the same region, from the same culture, from the same generation, so any changes the hgh elves see would need to be retroactive to the blood elves, who are the same people. Otherwise, it breaks lore. Context is important. Ignoring it for the sake of what you want shows you don't care about the lore.

It doesn't break lore. Because it is part of the lore, already, that the high elves suffered more from the mana withdrawal effects than blood elves since they did not rely on draining mana from living beings. It's already part of the lore that high elves are exiles, and being an exile is something that drastically changes one's culture as they're forced to adapt to a sudden shift in their situation.

You mean...like the blood elves did? You do realize both high elf and blood elf went YEARS without knowing how to mana tap and they were both forced to survive the same way. So the notion that the high elves went through some grueling problem that the blood elves did not is false. Let alone that the blood elves had it even worse, because they stayed in the fallen remnants of their kingdom and had to constantly fight off the scourge.
While the high elves stayed in safe havens.'

After TBC happened, the blood elf culture went back to the way it was, the standard high elf culture, and there has been no difference ever since. Only desires to reunify.

No, it's very true, because they had mana drain, so their suffering ended much sooner than the high elves, who had to endure it for far longer. As for "fighting the Scourge", how about being banished to the Plaguelands, a land filled with much more Scourge than the Ghostlands? Last, but not least: no, their culture did not go to the way it was before. Because a lot of stuff the blood elves are doing are things that the high elves would not. Messing with Anima magic, for one. Void magic, for another.

Its a shame its so well supported that it bounced right back everytime someone says "what if we give them blue tattoos! That will make them different enough from blood elves!". It is laughable.
Or everytime someone brings up pale skin.

It's as well supported as a straw house in a hurricane. You forget that the sole reason those claims exist is to try to appease and convince members of the anti-high elf group. Because I can tell you that the vast majority of the high elf supporters would not care if high elves looked exactly like blood elves, or vastly different from blood elves. As long as they were high elves, and not blood elves.

Cool, so then you don't need them because blood elves give you everything you need in gameplay.

This statement is meaningless and irrelevant since I've already said I don't care about gameplay, but the lore of the high elves.

I know what you said, and you only seem to put worth into what the CM said and not the lead developer. A CM is not a developer. They can communicate what people want, but the fact of the matter is Blizzard doesn't care about what you want. Devs like Ion are the rockstars of blizzard, and what they say goes. High elves haven't been around to play for 12 years, and void elves being playable kills the notion of high elves.

It's irrelevant because I'm not putting his word above the developers. I simply pointed out how the CM's opinion is evidence that the anti-high-elf stance of Blizzard's is not a unanimous decision. And, who knows, an eventual change in leadership might bring different opinions, and maybe the next one wants high elves.

Except for the fact that your hypothesis is incorrect

It has not been shown to be incorrect.

And they promptly put the notion away when ion stated flatly if you want a pale blonde elf the horde is waiting for you.

Except I don't want to play as a blood elf. And his words only show his disconnect with what this section of his playerbase really wants.

Gameplay is a barrier you insist on ignoring. AR didn't do anything for you. You just think it did.

Gameplay is not a barrier. Because "gameplay" regarding races is nothing but the active and passive racials a race offers.

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It is in blood of the highborne.

Ah. In that case, I'll have to ask for the passage quotes, since I don't own that book.

[Broflake]

It's not about "not liking" your counterpoints, it's just a fact of your "counterpoints" being irrelevant. The reason Classic was released has nothing to do with this.

Yes...yes it does.

There is no "stubborness". Put both in armor, and around the world of Azeroth, fighting and moving, and you simply be unable to tell the difference between the two before the color of their name, the color of their outline, or the color of their health bar tells you which faction, and therefore which race, they are.

Still does not change th fact that without their armor you can tell a significant difference between them and night elves. Anyone who is new to the game would immediately think them a different race.

Nightborne and void elves. Clones of races from opposite factions. And the void elves are a fringe group. They're a fringe group of blood elves.

Nightborne and void elves have storyline stating they've changed. They ar their own group now even if they came from another group. Not comparable.

It is still something that happened in-game that could be extrapolated and expanded into actual lore, which is my point.

Your point is invalid because it is not something that happened in game or in lore. You can't expand on something that never happened.

I've read the "In the Shadow of the Sun" Lor'themar story, and there is no mention of any of what I quoted.

You've already established you don't read what is written in front of you, and considering the fact Aldo was also in agreement with me, I do believe you simply did not read it at all. Mind you, Aldo is perhaps one of the hardcore pro helfers.

And, again, magical artifacts are not common enough to sate their addiction. Otherwise, why would the blood elves have to rely on "mana vampirism" in the first place, if magical artifacts were enough to stave off suffering?

Okay? And? What is your point? Both blood elves and high elves constantly needed to sate their addiction in a way that over doing it would not turn them wretched.
Calcium is Calcium no matter if you drink it from milk, or eat it from kale.

Because they are not a playable race, yet. Simple enough. I guarantee you that if high elves are made playable, you'll see plenty more HE settlements around. Just like it happened with every single playable race in the game.

Ion said there are no high elf settlements period and tht they've assimilated into humanity. So...no.
Let alone again, their race is playable thorugh blood elves.

Pfft. Like what you "want to allow" matters any. You're not the mod of this forum to decide what posters can do.

Neither are you so...what is the point of this post besides being upset I am disagreeing with you?

Nope. Absolutely false. I never even suggested such a thing. From the get-go I pointed out it's a moral standpoint, not a results standpoint.

Even though in your previous points you suggested differences may have occurred... You seem rather inconsistent on your own point.
No one cares about the morals if we are in agreement their morals are different. So if we agree on the morals being different, why are you bringing it up repeatedly? It is just you being pedantic.

Um... excuse me? "There were no worgens or goblins present"? Are you nuts? What do you think populated Booty Bay? Or Everlook? Or Gadgetzan? Murlocs, perhaps? And have you ever been in Silverpine Forest at all before Cataclysm?

Sweet, find me the Worgen DK's and Goblin DK's in WotLK. You know...which was my point. You're really not into reading what is stated. This discussion is beginning to be impossible to hold with you if you're going to continuously and intentionally misinterpret what is stated.
trawman is.[/quote]

It doesn't break lore. Because it is part of the lore,

There is absolutely no lore stating which group suffered more. It is head canon on your part.
Blood elves had a brief cultural shift and changed back after the sunwell.

No, it's very true, because they had mana drain, so their suffering ended much sooner than the high elves, who had to endure it for far longer.

They all had to endure it until the revival of the sunwell.

As for "fighting the Scourge", how about being banished to the Plaguelands, a land filled with much more Scourge than the Ghostlands?

That only applies to quel'lithien high elves, not high elves as a whole.

Last, but not least: no, their culture did not go to the way it was before. Because a lot of stuff the blood elves are doing are things that the high elves would not. Messing with Anima magic, for one. Void magic, for another.

Where as there are high elves in telogrus rift interested in learning voi elf magic.
The fact that high elves mess with thunder magic and give it to Jaina in MoP.
The fact that high elves tortured and murdered blood elves by feeding them to sharks.
Yeah... high elves would never do anytihng blood elves do even though that is their entire history in WoW.

It's as well supported as a straw house in a hurricane. You forget that the sole reason those claims exist is to try to appease and convince members of the anti-high elf group. Because I can tell you that the vast majority of the high elf supporters would not care if high elves looked exactly like blood elves, or vastly different from blood elves. As long as they were high elves, and not blood elves.

Cool, but the devs and those opposed do. You need to address those hurdles not ignore them.

This statement is meaningless and irrelevant since I've already said I don't care about gameplay, but the lore of the high elves.

I don't care that you don't care. This is still a barrier to high elves being playable. You can't pick and choose what you do and do not acknowledge as an obstacle if the devs stated it was there.

It's irrelevant because I'm not putting his word above the developers. I simply pointed out how the CM's opinion is evidence that the anti-high-elf stance of Blizzard's is not a unanimous decision. And, who knows, an eventual change in leadership might bring different opinions, and maybe the next one wants high elves.

Even though leadership changed twice and they've remained on the same thought process. Mmkay.

[QUOTE=Ielenia;51663376]
It has not been shown to be incorrect.[/quote
It has, you're just ignoring it.

Except I don't want to play as a blood elf. And his words only show his disconnect with what this section of his playerbase really wants.

Or it shows he acknowledges what they want and does not care since gameplay>lore.

Gameplay is not a barrier. Because "gameplay" regarding races is nothing but the active and passive racials a race offers.

I mean...that is categorically false dude. Aesthetics is important and defining in WoW.

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Ah. In that case, I'll have to ask for the passage quotes, since I don't own that book.

Its free online

[Black Goat]

With factions merging, there is no longer any reason to restrict High Elves. The idea of stealing something from the other faction becomes a moot point.

Except... factions aren't merging. Did they announce this somewhere and I missed it? Please provide the Blue post to support this statement.