Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[elbleuet]

Which is why you have completely failed at refuting any of the points with any information besides saying I am wrong. This is just Danthe's law in full effect.

I did but you simply do not want to recognize it. You can't be right when using wrong & outdated informations.

Moreover, nowadays only 2 or 3 anti-high elf posters are still using this piece of misinformation, just because they think it will add some weight to their poor arguments.

[FlubberPuddy]

Except... factions aren't merging. Did they announce this somewhere and I missed it? Please provide the Blue post to support this statement.

They haven't announced that Flying will be in the next expansion but I'd bet you a million dollars it will be. They haven't announced 8.3 happening either, but I'd bet you 10 million dollars it will be happening.

Look at the writing on the wall. Just like 'everyone knew' 1) Saurfang was going to die 2) Sylvanas wouldn't be Warchief anymore 3) Sylvanas wouldn't be part of the Horde anymore.

[Black Goat]

The fact that you are getting so defensive just proves you are worried that it is true. You are trying hard to convince yourself more than any of us.

And yes, there was a new banner.

Then show us the banner. And instead of making up insults and assertions, try using facts, it will go much further.

We're waiting on that picture of the banner. Side note, even the other H-Elfers haven't seen this banner. While I haven't looked for myself, I'm confident there isn't one. It would have been plastered all over this thread.

- - - Updated - - -

They haven't announced that Flying will be in the next expansion but I'd bet you a million dollars it will be. They haven't announced 8.3 happening either, but I'd bet you 10 million dollars it will be happening.

Look at the writing on the wall. Just like 'everyone knew' 1) Saurfang was going to die 2) Sylvanas wouldn't be Warchief anymore 3) Sylvanas wouldn't be part of the Horde anymore.

People didn't know those things. They speculated. There is a huge difference between the two. Pretending Flight and Patch 8.3 are even in the same realm as merging the factions is preposterous, and honestly laughable. What a terrible analogy for you to attempt to make.

The factions aren't merging. Until it is announced they are merging, any inference of the contrary is pure speculation.

- - - Updated - - -

I did but you simply do not want to recognize it. You can't be right when using wrong & outdated informations.

Moreover, nowadays only 2 or 3 anti-high elf posters are still using this piece of misinformation, just because they think it will add some weight to their poor arguments.

His information was neither wrong or outdated. You have failed at providing proof that the information has been retconned. The history of WWII is not "outdated" simply because it is old.

We don't have poor arguments. We post facts, and more often than not, the lot of you run in dizzying circles of made up lore to try and justify why the Alliance should have the Blood Elf model to be playable on the Alliance. The facts are never refuted. Once of you has been defeated in discussion, it never fails, the inevitable "I will not be replying to your posts anymore" post comes up. I've seen Aldo do it, and I recently saw Flubber do it while admitting he'd "pick and choose" which arguments he faces head-on. Meanwhile, the facts remain. I have lost count of the amount of times I've read a post that outright disregards the truth of the matter in favor or perpetuating this hysterical call for a race/model that belongs to the Horde.

[SilenceRedo]

The fact that you are getting so defensive just proves you are worried that it is true. You are trying hard to convince yourself more than any of us.

And yes, there was a new banner.

The only purpose that clown has in this forum is to preach that statement time after time endlessly. Don't mind him.

With factions gone, we have even more reasons to ask for Helves. Blood elves are still tainted by horde filth.

[FlubberPuddy]

People didn't know those things. They speculated. There is a huge difference between the two. Pretending Flight and Patch 8.3 are even in the same realm as merging the factions is preposterous, and honestly laughable. What a terrible analogy for you to attempt to make.

The factions aren't merging. Until it is announced they are merging, any inference of the contrary is pure speculation.

Okay dude.

[Ielenia]

Yes...yes it does.

You insisting it does doesn't make it so. The issue here never was "why they did it", but "they said they wouldn't, but then they did it."

Still does not change th fact that without their armor you can tell a significant difference between them and night elves. Anyone who is new to the game would immediately think them a different race.

That fact is irrelevant because you'll almost never meet another player without armor, and even without armor, you just won't see the differences between nightborne and night elves at first glance, while they're out in the world doing their business.


Nightborne and void elves have storyline stating they've changed. They ar their own group now even if they came from another group. Not comparable.


Your point is invalid because it is not something that happened in game or in lore. You can't expand on something that never happened.

You've already established you don't read what is written in front of you,

Wrong. Nope. Try again.

and considering the fact Aldo was also in agreement with me, I do believe you simply did not read it at all.

Oh, I'm so sorry that I don't have all the money in the world to buy all pieces of extended Warcraft lore ever published nor all the time in the world to read all said pieces of extended Warcraft lore. (sarcasm, if you couldn't tell)

Also, you gave the wrong information, since it's not in the Shadow of the Sun story.

Okay? And? What is your point? Both blood elves and high elves constantly needed to sate their addiction in a way that over doing it would not turn them wretched.
Calcium is Calcium no matter if you drink it from milk, or eat it from kale.

Lots of words to say nothing regarding my point. My point is that the high elves suffered more under the mana addiction withdrawal because they did not feed on living beings like the blood elves.

Let alone again, their race is playable thorugh blood elves.

False.

Neither are you so...what is the point of this post besides being upset I am disagreeing with you?

The only think I'm "upset" is the lies and strawman you're making of my arguments, despite so many times I corrected you regarding your understanding of my points. I'm starting to think you're doing this intentionally. Which, again, says a lot about how you're here in bad faith.

Even though in your previous points you suggested differences may have occurred... You seem rather inconsistent on your own point.
No one cares about the morals if we are in agreement their morals are different. So if we agree on the morals being different, why are you bringing it up repeatedly? It is just you being pedantic.

There is no inconsistency in my arguments regarding the high elves and how they suffered under the mana addiction withdrawal. Your confusion is just a natural consequence of you believing your own strawman. And the reason I'm bringing up the moral argument is because the morals plays a heavy part of the high elf/blood elf separation, as it started with the schism regarding "mana vampirism".

Sweet, find me the Worgen DK's and Goblin DK's in WotLK. You know...which was my point. You're really not into reading what is stated.

You really don't know how lore works, do you? Of course you wouldn't see goblin and worgen DKs in Wrath because those races weren't available as a playable race before Cata. And the reason the other races added in the future (Pandaren and ARs) was because there simply weren't enough representatives of them around the world at the time Arthas created his death knights: pandaren were restricted to Pandaria and their wandering isle. LF draenei and void elves simply did not exist in Azeroth until after Legion. DI dwarves, HM tauren, Zandalari and Nightborne were restricted to their own homeland.

This discussion is beginning to be impossible to hold with you if you're going to continuously and intentionally misinterpret what is stated.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is what "projection" means.

There is absolutely no lore stating which group suffered more. It is head canon on your part.
Blood elves had a brief cultural shift and changed back after the sunwell.

Sure there is. It's called "mana tap". The skill in which the blood elves used to drain mana from living beings. It's what they used to avoid suffering the effects of the withdrawal. The HEs did not accept such skill, therefore they suffered more under their addiction.

They all had to endure it until the revival of the sunwell.

Except blood elves did not have to "endure" anything since they had "mana tap" to drain mana from living beings and sate their addiction and stave off the withdrawal symptoms, something high elves did not have.

That only applies to quel'lithien high elves, not high elves as a whole.

So that's fine, in your book? It's fine that those elves were put in such a dire situation since, as per your claim "most remained safe"? Not to mention that high elves fought against the Scourge just as much as blood elves before being banished by Lor'themar.

Where as there are high elves in telogrus rift interested in learning voi elf magic.
The fact that high elves mess with thunder magic and give it to Jaina in MoP.
The fact that high elves tortured and murdered blood elves by feeding them to sharks.
Yeah... high elves would never do anytihng blood elves do even though that is their entire history in WoW.

Cool, but the devs and those opposed do. You need to address those hurdles not ignore them.

I'm not. I'm not ignoring anything. I just don't care what they look like. All I care is to play the lore of the high elves. Simple as that.

I don't care that you don't care. This is still a barrier to high elves being playable. You can't pick and choose what you do and do not acknowledge as an obstacle if the devs stated it was there.

Again: there zero barriers in gameplay. The only one that existed, the silhouette argument, was thrown out the window with allied races. You keep saying "gameplay is a barrier" and yet fail to name even a single instance of it.

Even though leadership changed twice and they've remained on the same thought process. Mmkay.

So what? That does not mean their stance will never change. Blizzard changed their stance on things several times in the past, with the most glaring example of that is Classic servers.

Or it shows he acknowledges what they want and does not care since gameplay>lore.

Again, gameplay has zero barriers against the implementation of high elves as a playable race.

I mean...that is categorically false dude. Aesthetics is important and defining in WoW.

Aesthetics is not "gameplay". You don't "play" aesthetics. That's like saying the color of a car influences how well it drives. Either way, again, as I mentioned before, the aesthetics argument was thrown right out the window with allied races.

Its free online

You mean pirate it?

[elbleuet]

His information was neither wrong or outdated. You have failed at providing proof that the information has been retconned.

I did. See my posts.

The history of WWII is not "outdated" simply because it is old.

What's the ? Are you serious ?

Once of you has been defeated in discussion, it never fails, the inevitable "I will not be replying to your posts anymore" post comes up. I've seen Aldo do it, and I recently saw Flubber do it while admitting he'd "pick and choose" which arguments he faces head-on. Meanwhile, the facts remain. I have lost count of the amount of times I've read a post that outright disregards the truth of the matter in favor or perpetuating this hysterical call for a race/model that belongs to the Horde.

Nah. You're fooling yourself. When someone keeps saying "IM RIGHT YOUR WRONG U FAILED BECAUSE MY OPINION IS FACT" we just tend to get bored and thus we no longer debate. But that doesn't mean you're right. And playable high elves or not, we'll always call for them to be playable because we think they have to be playable and your poor arguments from outdated informations won't change anything. Sorry buddy

[Black Goat]

Okay dude.

Feel free to provide any proof you have that factions are merging. But don't be passive aggressive, it's unbecoming.

- - - Updated - - -

I did. See my posts.




What's the ? Are you serious ?



Nah. You're fooling yourself. When someone keeps saying "IM RIGHT YOUR WRONG U FAILED BECAUSE MY OPINION IS FACT" we just tend to get bored and thus we no longer debate. But that doesn't mean you're right. And playable high elves or not, we'll always call for them to be playable because we think they have to be playable and your poor arguments from outdated informations won't change anything. Sorry buddy

As if your argument is any different than what you just said.

Facts are only bad if you can't accept them, which seems to be the case for you. Most of what you guys propose is 100% speculation and theory. You bend the lore when it doesn't suit you. You cite the lore when it does. Our argument? Unwavering. It has never changed. And when it doesn't change, you attempt to diminish the weight of it with pathetic attempts to make the truth seem like a bad thing. It's truly marvelous to watch such desperation regarding a fictional race. It's also rather ironic, because like the High Elves, none of you seem to unite under the same banner.

The only thing outdated in this thread is the call for playable High Elves.

[FossilFree]

I'm curious. Mind giving us a pic of it ?

Doesn't seem as though my main can access it anymore. I'll do the quests and take my alt there I guess.

[Black Goat]

Doesn't seem as though my main can access it anymore. I'll do the quests and take my alt there I guess.

Isn't that a curious problem.

[Obelisk Kai]

Isn't that a curious problem.

I brought my final character, my Alliance shaman, through the scenario a few days ago. I kept my eyes peeled to see if there was anything substantial regarding these blue ballistas, flew all over the battlefield looking for high elf exiles or anything that could support the theory that the high elves were contributing to the battle.

I think I'd have noticed a new banner.

I think a new banner would have been found by now by multiple people and used to spread rumours. You don't need much to spread rumours in the wow community. We have a thread dedicated to a Northrend 2.0 expansion based on a Wendigo onesie for example.

I think Fossilfree definitely believes he saw a new banner, but once he gets back to the scenario on an alt he will see he mistook something else entirely for a new high elf banner. After all, the fact that nobody else has seen such a thing and he is the only person to mention it strongly suggests this is the case.

[Black Goat]

I brought my final character, my Alliance shaman, through the scenario a few days ago. I kept my eyes peeled to see if there was anything substantial regarding these blue ballistas, flew all over the battlefield looking for high elf exiles or anything that could support the theory that the high elves were contributing to the battle.

I think I'd have noticed a new banner.

I think a new banner would have been found by now by multiple people and used to spread rumours. You don't need much to spread rumours in the wow community. We have a thread dedicated to a Northrend 2.0 expansion based on a Wendigo onesie for example.

I think Fossilfree definitely believes he saw a new banner, but once he gets back to the scenario on an alt he will see he mistook something else entirely for a new high elf banner. After all, the fact that nobody else has seen such a thing and he is the only person to mention it strongly suggests this is the case.

As I suspected. I have also not seen a banner, and I play both factions. I've done the scenario twice.

[Broflake]

You insisting it does doesn't make it so. The issue here never was "why they did it", but "they said they wouldn't, but then they did it."

And the why they did it is important because nothing occurs in a vacuum. All you're doing is shaking your head and saying it isn't valid because you're desperately trying to retain a weak argument.

That fact is irrelevant because you'll almost never meet another player without armor, and even without armor, you just won't see the differences between nightborne and night elves at first glance, while they're out in the world doing their business.

This is categorically false given the ability to transmog.
If it didnt matter, then any race can be on any side because armor hides their appearance. Le shrug.

Wrong. Nope. Try again.

Several times you've asserted I've made statements that I have never made, and you don't even acknowledge my pointing it out to you. I don't need to argue with you since anyone can read your posts and see it anyway. So...

Oh, I'm so sorry that I don't have all the money in the world to buy all pieces of extended Warcraft lore ever published nor all the time in the world to read all said pieces of extended Warcraft lore. (sarcasm, if you couldn't tell)

Not my problem. When you enter a debate you are expected to be equipped with the necessary knowledge. You don't jump into a discussion with a doctor about the prevention of myocardial infarctions or athelerosclerosis without being properly educated do you?

Also, you gave the wrong information, since it's not in the Shadow of the Sun story.

Cool, which part was wrong information?

Lots of words to say nothing regarding my point. My point is that the high elves suffered more under the mana addiction withdrawal because they did not feed on living beings like the blood elves.

Cool, cite the lore supporting it because everything says all thalassian elves suffered the same.

False.

What were blood elves called before WC3?

The only think I'm "upset" is the lies and strawman you're making of my arguments, despite so many times I corrected you regarding your understanding of my points. I'm starting to think you're doing this intentionally. Which, again, says a lot about how you're here in bad faith.

To be honest, I don't believe you are keeping track of your own points given you don't keep track of what is stated by myself.

There is no inconsistency in my arguments regarding the high elves and how they suffered under the mana addiction withdrawal. Your confusion is just a natural consequence of you believing your own strawman. And the reason I'm bringing up the moral argument is because the morals plays a heavy part of the high elf/blood elf separation, as it started with the schism regarding "mana vampirism".

I mean...again...not disagreeing with you on why the schism occurred, I am simply disagreeing with you on the notion that high elves suffered more. Furthermore, yeah, there is, go read your posts where this all began you'l

You really don't know how lore works, do you? Of course you wouldn't see goblin and worgen DKs in Wrath because those races weren't available as a playable race before Cata.

You do realize we saw both Worgens and Goblins prior to Cata as non-playable races right? They weren't present in WotLK because there were no goblin/worgen DK's period. I find it hilarious you say "you don't see any because they weren't playable til Cata" but then in your previous response, spoke of how they were present everywhere prior to it. You're incredibly inconsistent. The rest of this response was irrelevant so its been removed.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is what "projection" means.

That...isn't what projected means. Do refrain from trying to flamebait.

Sure there is. It's called "mana tap". The skill in which the blood elves used to drain mana from living beings. It's what they used to avoid suffering the effects of the withdrawal. The HEs did not accept such skill, therefore they suffered more under their addiction.

Except for the fact that Rommath taught all the thalassian elves mana tapping, and so the high elves were using mana tapping. They simply refused to mana tap living things. Your argument is again, unsupported.

Except blood elves did not have to "endure" anything since they had "mana tap" to drain mana from living beings and sate their addiction and stave off the withdrawal symptoms, something high elves did not have.

Yes, they did, and it is clearly stated in the blood elf starter zone the challenges of magic addiction. So again, you are incorrect.

So that's fine, in your book? It's fine that those elves were put in such a dire situation since, as per your claim "most remained safe"? Not to mention that high elves fought against the Scourge just as much as blood elves before being banished by Lor'themar.

Cool, name the high elves who were out there fighting the scourge outside of the quel'lithien high elves? It was stated Vereesa herself fled Lordaeron and stayed in Stormwind with Rommath in relative safety.

I'm not. I'm not ignoring anything. I just don't care what they look like. All I care is to play the lore of the high elves. Simple as that.

Cool, void elves should scratch the itch then since they're blood elves who were high elves.

Again: there zero barriers in gameplay.

Again, there are barriers which have also been stated by Blizzard as existing . Your willful bejhavior to ignore it does not support your arguments. Allied races have done nothing of the sort given the change snightborne and void elves went thorugh.

So what? That does not mean their stance will never change. Blizzard changed their stance on things several times in the past, with the most glaring example of that is Classic servers.

And why did they change their mind on it?
Originally "not enough interest" for them to do it. That changed.
High elves? Most requested, still not playable. Clearly, the context is different.

Aesthetics is not "gameplay". You don't "play" aesthetics.

Which is why the most popular race in the game in Vanilla WoW was humans, and the most popular race in the game after TBC has been blood elves, and why the most popular allied race by far is void elves. Aesthetics is part of gameplay believe it or not.

You mean pirate it?

Hey, what you do is your own thing. I simply stated its online.

@elbuet: Cool story, but claiming the lore is old does not an argument make. Provide information that retcons it. Otherwise, you are doing nothing but screaming "you're wrong" repeatedly.

[Chain Chungus]

It seems like the no-High Elf crowd is the newest incarnation of the no-flyers. We all saw how that turned out...

[Aldo Hawk]

You've already established you don't read what is written in front of you, and considering the fact Aldo was also in agreement with me, I do believe you simply did not read it at all. Mind you, Aldo is perhaps one of the hardcore pro helfers.

Look, this is not about agreeing. When something is correct, it is correct. Doesn't matter who agrees. Stop using others to support your statements.

Ielenia has brought many, many points that are correct regarding the matter, you have brought much, much less to the conversation, only troubled answers to those who are not in your position or don't agree with you.

You don't want to debate nor discuss, you want to win a fight and to shut down the request. I have pretty much demonstrated it time and time again, very extensively may I add.

That attitude leads nowhere and my suggestion for others is to stop engaging in such circular behavior.

[Black Goat]

It seems like the no-High Elf crowd is the newest incarnation of the no-flyers. We all saw how that turned out...

Except flying and taking a race from the Horde are in no way, shape, or form comparable topics.

[FlubberPuddy]

Courtesy of Celekolnir from official forums (US):

Silver Covenant NPCs in SW attack Horde on sight. The Horde counterpart to them does not



"SiLvEr CoVeNaNt R nUtRuL!@#!4"

[Broflake]

When something is correct, it is correct.

Glad you got the point, but that is the only part of your response which had any substance. The rest is vitriole where you conduct transference. Not interested.

[Aldo Hawk]

Glad you got the point, but that is the only part of your response which had any substance. The rest is vitriole where you conduct transference. Not interested.

Of course it will not have substance unless it goes in your favor, as anything else properly.

You are just interested in finding people that says: Yes, yes.

All you have done has been basically fighting others through repeating: 'No, what I say is the truth, you are simply wrong, no, hear me I know more than anyone else'.

The fact of the matter is that you didn't lasted too long until clinging a puny medal on your chest the moment I pointed you brought something that was factual, it's just like that.

I still suggest everyone else to not engage with this anymore, as per the record, the only responses contains cut quotes and responses that demonstrate a lack of willing to understand.

- - - Updated - - -

I brought my final character, my Alliance shaman, through the scenario a few days ago. I kept my eyes peeled to see if there was anything substantial regarding these blue ballistas, flew all over the battlefield looking for high elf exiles or anything that could support the theory that the high elves were contributing to the battle.

I think I'd have noticed a new banner.

I think a new banner would have been found by now by multiple people and used to spread rumours. You don't need much to spread rumours in the wow community. We have a thread dedicated to a Northrend 2.0 expansion based on a Wendigo onesie for example.

I think Fossilfree definitely believes he saw a new banner, but once he gets back to the scenario on an alt he will see he mistook something else entirely for a new high elf banner. After all, the fact that nobody else has seen such a thing and he is the only person to mention it strongly suggests this is the case.

I can't wait to see how much time it will last until you use this commentary to make appear as if the 'new delusion of the helfers' is this, when it is just one guy saying something that is not even clear. It's gonna be entertaining.

Demagogy is a double edged attitude. In the end, it just appeal to those who mindlessly agree and does nothing to understand the other sides of the argument.

[Broflake]

Of course it will not have substance unless it goes in your favor, as anything else properly.

This is again, just transference on your part.

You are just interested in finding people that says: Yes, yes.

Hardly. I come into the conversation knowing someone disagrees with me. Unlike yourself, I don't demean or flame people for disagreeing with me. If they state something that does not support their argument, I will point it out.

All you have done has been basically fighting others through repeating: 'No, what I say is the truth, you are simply wrong, no, hear me I know more than anyone else'.

That's cool and all, but can you substantiate this claim? Have you ignored the fact I have requested the individual provide canon information to refute the lore and information I provided? That seems like it.

The fact of the matter is that you didn't lasted too long until clinging a puny medal on your chest the moment I pointed you brought something that was factual, it's just like that.

Sorry I am having a difficult time understanding what you're stating here. Clarify?

I still suggest everyone else to not engage with this anymore, as per the record, the only responses contains cut quotes and responses that demonstrate a lack of willing to understand.

This just seems more transference on your part Aldo.

I can't wait to see how much time it will last until you use this commentary to make appear as if the 'new delusion of the helfers' is this, when it is just one guy saying something that is not even clear. It's gonna be entertaining.

Not sure where you are going with this exactly Aldo, it doesn't make much sense.

Demagogy is a double edged attitude. In the end, it just appeal to those who mindlessly agree and does nothing to understand the other sides of the argument.

This entire post of yours just seems more to be railing against the fact people disagree, than focusing on the arguments they present.