Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Ielenia]

And the why they did it is important because nothing occurs in a vacuum. All you're doing is shaking your head and saying it isn't valid because you're desperately trying to retain a weak argument.

The reason it doesn't matter is because, if Blizzard changes their mind and decide to implement high elves as a playable race, there will be a reason for this change of mind. Which is why saying "yeah but Blizzard did this because of that" is meaningless. Because, of course, if Blizzard "does this", i.e., implement high elves, it'll obviously be "because of that", i.e., whatever reason that caused them to change their stance.

This is categorically false given the ability to transmog.
If it didnt matter, then any race can be on any side because armor hides their appearance. Le shrug.

This is not false, because few people hide all pieces of their gear. Most keep full armor. The transmog issue is simply to point out how the aesthetics argument no longer applies due to allied races.

Several times you've asserted I've made statements that I have never made, and you don't even acknowledge my pointing it out to you. I don't need to argue with you since anyone can read your posts and see it anyway. So...

And yet, you do argue.

Cool, which part was wrong information?

It's literally stated in the part you quoted.

Cool, cite the lore supporting it because everything says all thalassian elves suffered the same.

The lore of Rommath returning from Outland with Illidan's knowledge of 'mana tap', i.e. draining mana from living beings. The lore of the high elves rejecting such notion, and therefore having to endure it on their own.

I mean...again...not disagreeing with you on why the schism occurred, I am simply disagreeing with you on the notion that high elves suffered more. Furthermore, yeah, there is, go read your posts where this all began you'l

Well, then you're disagreeing with established lore of the game. The high elves did suffer more than blood elves because the high elves refused to depend on draining mana from living beings.

You do realize we saw both Worgens and Goblins prior to Cata as non-playable races right? They weren't present in WotLK because there were no goblin/worgen DK's period. I find it hilarious you say "you don't see any because they weren't playable til Cata" but then in your previous response, spoke of how they were present everywhere prior to it. You're incredibly inconsistent. The rest of this response was irrelevant so its been removed.

Apples and Oranges. The reason we didn't see goblins and worgen death knights during Wrath (or, at least, I don't remember seeing any) is because they weren't a playable race at the time. But then the reason we can make goblin and worgen playable characters in Cata and onward is because those two races were widely available around the world during the Wrath era, which is why it's lore-consistent to retroactively add goblin/worgen death knights as a playable race/class combo to the game.

Other races, like pandaren, were not widely available in Kalimdor/Eastern Kingdoms at the time of the Wrath expansion. Also, the rest of my response was not "irrelevant" as I basically repeated what I wrote in the post, only with a few more words.

That...isn't what projected means. Do refrain from trying to flamebait.

That is precisely what "projection" means. You consistently misrepresent my arguments, and now you're accusing me of that. Though I'm not surprised you said this, considering it seems you apparently also don't know what "flame-bait" means.

Except for the fact that Rommath taught all the thalassian elves mana tapping, and so the high elves were using mana tapping. They simply refused to mana tap living things. Your argument is again, unsupported.

It is supported. Magical artifacts are much more rare than they appear to be in Warcraft. And even if you were right, playable high elves would not have the 'mana tap' racial since you can only use your racials on player characters, and high elves refuse to use it on living beings, so, no, they would not have that racial.

Yes, they did, and it is clearly stated in the blood elf starter zone the challenges of magic addiction. So again, you are incorrect.

No, the TBC intro spoke of you "mastering your thirst for magic", and the quest lines show that you do it through draining mana from living beings. Something the high elves refused to have the luxury of.

Cool, name the high elves who were out there fighting the scourge outside of the quel'lithien high elves? It was stated Vereesa herself fled Lordaeron and stayed in Stormwind with Rommath in relative safety.

You want me to name unnamed NPCs? Either way, just read Lor'themar's short story "in the Shadow of the Sun" and you'll have two high elf names.

Cool, void elves should scratch the itch then since they're blood elves who were high elves.

Except we don't want "were who were" high elves. We want high elves. Blood elves are not the high elves of today.

Again, there are barriers which have also been stated by Blizzard as existing .

Barriers such as...? You mention "gameplay barriers" a lot, and claim they were stated by Blizzard... but you haven't shown a single one that isn't the already-debunked silhouette argument.

And why did they change their mind on it?
Originally "not enough interest" for them to do it. That changed.
High elves? Most requested, still not playable. Clearly, the context is different.

Again, the reason "why" is irrelevant, because if Blizzard change their mind regarding high elves, then it would have been for a reason. There is always a reason, so saying "Classic doesn't count because they did so for a reason" is not a really valid argument.

Which is why the most popular race in the game in Vanilla WoW was humans, and the most popular race in the game after TBC has been blood elves, and why the most popular allied race by far is void elves. Aesthetics is part of gameplay believe it or not.

Not what I meant. 'Aesthetics', as in, 'unique silhoettes'. If anything, you're giving a reason for the introduction of high elves, as what you state means high elves would be a popular pick.

Hey, what you do is your own thing. I simply stated its online.

You stated:

Its free online

[Black Goat]

Look, this is not about agreeing. When something is correct, it is correct. Doesn't matter who agrees. Stop using others to support your statements.

This is odd coming from you, considering most of our points are correct and based in the game or in the lore. None of the speculation, feelings, or theories you provide are correct, given that they can't be substantiated by any medium in or out of the game or its given lore. It's all in your head, therefore the term "head canon" has become quite prevalent in our posts.

But I'll remember to remind you of that when correct information is provided, and you choose to ignore it simply because it's not what you want to hear.

Ielenia has brought many, many points that are correct regarding the matter, you have brought much, much less to the conversation, only troubled answers to those who are not in your position or don't agree with you.

Broflake has concisely, and politely mind you, added A LOT to the anti-High Elf position of late. He or she has cited many articles in official lore that support his arguments. Ielenia mostly provides feelings, speculation, and dismissive responses. I've been following them closely. It doesn't seem you have, but then again, I don't fully expect you to be unbiased. You've shown time and time again that you're incapable of it.

You don't want to debate nor discuss, you want to win a fight and to shut down the request. I have pretty much demonstrated it time and time again, very extensively may I add.

We do want to debate. That's what we're doing. We also want to provide closure on this matter. In your mind, are we "fighting"? That would explain the emotional responses from you instead of rational ones.

That attitude leads nowhere and my suggestion for others is to stop engaging in such circular behavior.

Ahh, that "circular" word that's becoming popular. It's rather obvious you all would prefer this to be an echo chamber, but thankfully people like Kai, Broflake, myself, and others are less apt to provide you that. You'll just have to pony up the stones and deal with opposition, or succumb to the reality that High Elves are playable, just not on the Alliance faction.

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In the end, it just appeal to those who mindlessly agree and does nothing to understand the other sides of the argument.

This is shocking coming from you. You have not once demonstrated the slightest inclination to understand the other side of the argument.

[Broflake]

The reason it doesn't matter is because,

Yes...it does...becaus eit provides insight on what is necessary for a business to consider implementation of something. Nothing comes without cost and nothing comes without benefit. One needs to weigh the two, and the presence of Classic means the circumstances changed in such a way it benefitted them. The circumstances have not changed in regards to high elves. So no, you can't say "well they'll have a reason if they change their mind". Cool story, but if you don't care about the reason why are you even holding this discussion?
If blizzard will make them available for a reason then there is no point to a discussion now is there?

This is not false, because few people hide all pieces of their gear. Most keep full armor. The transmog issue is simply to point out how the aesthetics argument no longer applies due to allied races.

Cool, do you have any data to provide this information?
Fact of the matter is they look different, and first impressions on a race when you are building a character matters, and demonstrates these differences. What the player does after does not matter because they've already made their choice on a race based on a number of factors including the aesthetics of that race.

And yet, you do argue.

As do you.

It's literally stated in the part you quoted.

I would not question you if it were

The lore of Rommath returning from Outland with Illidan's knowledge of 'mana tap', i.e. draining mana from living beings. The lore of the high elves rejecting such notion, and therefore having to endure it on their own.

They rejected what they mana tapped. They did not reject learning mana tapping. I mean, it is well indicated they know how to mana tap and were doing so in Northrend and Outland to meet their addiction needs just like blood elves.

Well, then you're disagreeing with established lore of the game. The high elves did suffer more than blood elves because the high elves refused to depend on draining mana from living beings.

Cool, cite the information.
The lore states they all suffered, it does not state who suffered more or less. In fact, there were many blood elves who were also mana tapping arcane crystals rather than creatures.
Let alone the fact that biologically they are the same race, so their suffering would be equal throughout depending on their class.

Apples and Oranges.

No. Wrong analogy.

The reason we didn't see goblins and worgen death knights during Wrath (or, at least, I don't remember seeing any) is because they weren't a playable race at the time. But then the reason we can make goblin and worgen playable characters in Cata and onward is because those two races were widely available around the world during the Wrath era, which is why it's lore-consistent to retroactively add goblin/worgen death knights as a playable race/class combo to the game.

We're both wrong, there are worgens and goblins present during Wrath, the thing is the following.
All Worgen DK are from shadowkeep, and these worgen were not present to cross Arthas path.
Goblins are from the steamwheedle cartel and also were not present for Arthas to raise. In both, the story simply was non-existent.
Furthermore the argument about presence is a poor one given it is largely inconsistent since many races are prevalent throughout WoW but are not present.

Other races, like pandaren, were not widely available in Kalimdor/Eastern Kingdoms at the time of the Wrath expansion. Also, the rest of my response was not "irrelevant" as I basically repeated what I wrote in the post, only with a few more words.

Which is why there are no Pandaren DK's as cited by Blizzard. The rest of your post was irrelevant since it had been addressed and/or did not add to the discussion.

That is precisely what "projection" means. You consistently misrepresent my arguments, and now you're accusing me of that. Though I'm not surprised you said this, considering it seems you apparently also don't know what "flame-bait" means.

How have I mis-represented your arguments? I have addressed them as is, so I fail to see how it is a strawman. On the other hand, you have attributed arguments to me which I have never made repeatedly.
So... yeah...

It is supported. Magical artifacts are much more rare than they appear to be in Warcraft. And even if you were right, playable high elves would not have the 'mana tap' racial since you can only use your racials on player characters, and high elves refuse to use it on living beings, so, no, they would not have that racial.

Mana tapping is an ability meant ot siphon mana from objects or living things. This is explicitly stated in lore.
You have nothing to argue in regards to how rare those artifacts are because even if they are rare, there are arcane leylines, gems, objects, etc etc.

No, the TBC intro spoke of you "mastering your thirst for magic",

Which is their addiction to magic that all elves suffer. You literally repeated what I stated.

Something the high elves refused to have the luxury of.

They just chose to mana tap magical objects, which if they had no access to, would result in physical and mental harm. As stated in lore.

You want me to name unnamed NPCs? Either way, just read Lor'themar's short story "in the Shadow of the Sun" and you'll have two high elf names.

Shadow of the Sun involves the Quel'lithien elves, who I stated were fighting earlier. Name the other ones.

Except we don't want "were who were" high elves. We want high elves. Blood elves are not the high elves of today.

Everyone who is a blood elf was a high elf. So...yes...we know who the high elves were which is anyone who calls themselves a high elf or a blood elf. Seriously, the high elves even call the blood elves their people, their kin, their brothers and sisters. Why are you being a wall and ignoring facts?
ALL blood elves are high elves and were present for the events of WC3.

Barriers such as...? You mention "gameplay barriers" a lot, and claim they were stated by Blizzard... but you haven't shown a single one that isn't the already-debunked silhouette argument.

The fact they both look the same and are the same race and therefore, they are already palyable through the Horde?
The fact that making them playable on the alliance makes the race neutral and damage faction distinction?
The fact you already have void elves and are essentially demanding to have more than what the horde has access, and therefore, introduce gameplay imbalance?
The fact that it was cited by Blizzard after the creation of void elves?
The fact that the example of a high elf in the last page is LITERALLY A BRUNETTE VERSION OF LANESH STEELWEAVER

A

gain, the reason "why" is irrelevant,

Except it is relevant otherwise it wouldnt have happened.

Not what I meant. 'Aesthetics', as in, 'unique silhoettes'. If anything, you're giving a reason for the introduction of high elves, as what you state means high elves would be a popular pick.

Aesthetics is part of silhouettes...
That is some mental gymnastics about the popularity of high elves btw.
I mean...you're suggesting everyone who would paly one is a new palyer and therefore would make blizzard money. This is obviously not true.

You stated:

I don't care

[Black Goat]

Golden eyed Blood elves are the same Blood elves as we always knew about, because they get those by worshiping the light through the Sunwell and nothing else, they are the same people as those with green eyes. So the argument of them having to be their own Allied race because of the eye color is not quite strong.

Incorrect. Worshipping The Light is not a prerequisite to having golden eyes as a Blood Elf.

It is what it is, anyone can simply not like it, but to say that it is just a blue eyed Blood elf misses the point entirely.

It indeed is what it is. It is a Blood Elf with blue eyes.

I don't know, didn't noticed, just took the image to show it off. Surely kind of a bad polishing of the model. Don't know exactly why you say it has to be intentional either but I may have an idea of why.

He didn't say it had to be intentional. The question mark used as punctuation indicates he was asking a question, not making a statement. There's no need to be passive aggressive when someone is merely asking you a question.

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I agree with others that it’s nice to see High Elves adopt more human esque hairstyles and colors. Like the one shown here.

That hairstyle is currently available to female Blood Elves.

[Aldo Hawk]

Incorrect. Worshipping The Light is not a prerequisite to having golden eyes as a Blood Elf.

https://twitter.com/Moorgard/status/...462386176?s=20

https://twitter.com/Moorgard/status/...241684480?s=20

It indeed is what it is. It is a Blood Elf with blue eyes.

I can't honestly care what you call it, 'what is what' is a dead argument since it is very clear.

[matrix123mko]

I would like to share an image that someone posted on discord, I think these glowing tattoos work very well to make the eyes more visible, I like the concept.

Great art. I wish we had something like that for blood elves.

[FlubberPuddy]

That hairstyle is currently available to female Blood Elves.

You must've not noticed the extra hair bits and braided bits.

Reminds me of hair like this



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Here's another reference pic to show that all Blizzard has to do to get a "new allied race" that is High Elves without going for skin tone is changing the body proportions like they did with Nightborne.



Whereas for Void Elves they didn't even do that. Just skin color and "new hairstyles" which some people say doesn't count. Therefore only skin color.

[Varodoc]

All this talk about the many details that high elves could have, and I'm left wondering... why shouldn't void elves also have glowing tattoos and infused arms ala Thalyssra? Why should these customization options be limited to high elves?

[Starla]

Considering contact lenses were mentioned in regard to Blood elves...it's a real possibility.

[FlubberPuddy]

Hey look, it's a "Void Elf"



So I guess Blizzard shouldn't have added Void Elves because you can just roll a pale-skinned, blue-eyed Void Elf since Wrath.

Images like this show how dumb arguments like "if you want to play a High Elf just play a Blood Elf" sounds.

It also makes "Blood Elves blue eye requests" sound dumb too cuz there you already have it, just roll a DK using that earlier type of logic.

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All this talk about the many details that high elves could have, and I'm left wondering... why shouldn't void elves also have glowing tattoos and infused arms ala Thalyssra? Why should these customization options be limited to high elves?

Because the customizations are there to set the race options further apart hence why people complain about wanting Mag'har Hairstyles on their Green Orcs. But you're never going to get that because their purpose is to further the difference between the already available options.

It's why some Blood Elf male players want Void Elf male facial hair options. It's not going to happen. The differences are there to entice you.

If someone makes the argument that "you can't have fair skin elves on Alliance" then it's hypocritical to turn around and go 'wtf they should give some Male Blood Elves facial hair like the Void Elf males have! Cmon Blizzard!" (not saying you are making this argument but others against High Elves have).

[matrix123mko]

All this talk about the many details that high elves could have, and I'm left wondering... why shouldn't void elves also have glowing tattoos and infused arms ala Thalyssra? Why should these customization options be limited to high elves?

Why shouldn't blood elves have that?

[FlubberPuddy]

Considering contact lenses were mentioned in regard to Blood elves...it's a real possibility.

That's as much as a joke as the ending spiel was a platitude. As we can see with the Worgen/Goblin remakes, Eye color is still attached to certain faces. It might be something they want to do, but there's a lot of things (dance studio?) that Blizzard wants to do and still haven't.

[Varodoc]

-snip-

I don't know what game you've been playing but that looks nothing like a void elf:



Also those glowing tattoos and arms would make much more sense on void elves since there is literal magic radiating through their veins. High elves are just generic fantasy elves with nothing enticing to them. If you want high elves, you'll have the lame elves who at best possess some basic tattoos.

Why shouldn't blood elves have that?

That's my point. If high elves have that, then so should void elves and blood elves. I just didn't mention the blood elves because I couldn't give a shit about them even if I tried.

[matrix123mko]

Because the customizations are there to set the race options further apart hence why people complain about wanting Mag'har Hairstyles on their Green Orcs. But you're never going to get that because their purpose is to further the difference between the already available options.

It's why some Blood Elf male players want Void Elf male facial hair options. It's not going to happen. The differences are there to entice you.

If someone makes the argument that "you can't have fair skin elves on Alliance" then it's hypocritical to turn around and go 'wtf they should give some Male Blood Elves facial hair like the Void Elf males have! Cmon Blizzard!" (not saying you are making this argument but others against High Elves have).

We need more customisation for every race. I could stand a little homogenisation to get more options.

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Also those glowing tattoos and arms would make much more sense on void elves since there is literal magic radiating through their veins. High elves are just generic fantasy elves with nothing enticing to them. If you want high elves, you'll have the lame elves who at best possess some basic tattoos.

That's my point. If high elves have that, then so should void elves and blood elves. I just didn't mention the blood elves because I couldn't give a shit about them even if I tried.

Totally agreed but I understand why some people want boring high elves.

[FlubberPuddy]

I don't know what game you've been playing but that looks nothing like a void elf

The point was showing how nonsensical the dumbass argument of "if you wanna play a High Elf then roll a Blood Elf" is. As Allied Races are more than just outward appearances.

They come with unique racials, character customization, their own heritage armor, a small hub, a mount, and specific story.

For anyone to boil arguments down to looks is plain stupid as Allied Races are much more than that.

[Varodoc]

The point was showing how nonsensical the dumbass argument of "if you wanna play a High Elf then roll a Blood Elf" is. As Allied Races are more than just outward appearances.

They come with unique racials, character customization, their own heritage armor, a small hub, a mount, and specific story.

For anyone to boil arguments down to looks is plain stupid as Allied Races are much more than that.

Looks are a key component of allied races though. Otherwise what's stopping Blizzard from wasting allied races slots on silly things like Stromic humans or Val'sharah night elves?

[matrix123mko]

Looks are a key component of allied races though. Otherwise what's stopping Blizzard from wasting allied races slots on silly things like Stromic humans or Val'sharah night elves?

Why do we assume that slots are limited?

[Varodoc]

Why do we assume that slots are limited?

Because I'd rather not have Stromic humans as the next allied race and then have to wait months for another allied race. It's not slots that are limited, it's my time and patience.

[FlubberPuddy]

We need more customisation for every race. I could stand a little homogenisation to get more options.

More customization for every race would be nice, but not at the expense of adding more playable options. Ideally you'd have both. Hopefully Blizzard does that. One of my biggest pet peeves about MMOs is how developers tend to design with "let's have 1 choice cover a lot of themes to garner the most amount of audience we can".

It may be efficient from a resource perspective, but honestly with how many re-colors of armors/mounts/pets etc are in the game, they should start doing it with bigger things like playable races too. Which they started, with Allied Races - an amazing feature, but they need to do more.

I'm sure you would like to play a Vampire type Elf for instance and comments like this

Most of those were logical lines of thought. Before Void Elves, I would have argued Undead Elves would have been a logical Allied race, but Void Elves not fill the gothic thalassian elf niche and Undead Elves would contribute to Elf bloat. They are surplus to requirements in other words.

do not help the situation at all. Why for instance should Void Elves existence disallow Undead Elves from happening? It's like the Necromancer threads where people say play a Warlock or Unholy DK.

There's an obvious thematic that people want, and with the breadth of options we have in the game now, I think it's okay to start getting more specific. This is why DH only came with two specs, to keep the flavor of its class very unique and flavorful.

I also wouldn't mind if they literally had "one spec" classes as long as it was super flavorful. We're gone from the days where resources are limited and you need to reach the widest audience possible.

By now, there's almost something for everyone in the general categories. There's 4 elf choices, 3 human choices (4 if you count undead), and 2 of almost all the other races.

It's time for more niche and specific flavor. Just like how we have something like 20 different variations of "Mage Tier sets" and 30 reskins of certain mounts. The variety is in the game already, it's time to apply it to Classes and Races.

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Because I'd rather not have Stromic humans as the next allied race and then have to wait months for another allied race. It's not slots that are limited, it's my time and patience.

Don't worry, the next AR will not be elf or human. That'll come after the last remaining 4 AR are released. Then we'll get another round of elves hopefully.

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Looks are a key component of allied races though. Otherwise what's stopping Blizzard from wasting allied races slots on silly things like Stromic humans or Val'sharah night elves?

It's simple, you compile the patterns of what's popular that you see. Just like how in general people did want 'Big Humans' and they came as Kul'Tirans. Who are, per Afrasiabi's words 'still human'.

Your example also doesn't make sense because Val'sharah Night Elves for instance don't have any unique skins/customization nor shown to use different abilities from existing Night Elves. You can make a Night Elf and say you're from Val'sharah just like how one can make a Mag'har and say they are from Outland.

What you cannot do is make a Blood Elf and fight alongside Alliance because Alliance members will kill you (in game). Nor can you make a Void Elf and roleplay as a High Elf. It would be like rolling a Green Orc and saying "I'm Mag'har" which while you can do that makes no actual sense.

[Starla]

I agree, Blizz had no problem with giving more hairstyle options that crossed faction and race lines before. Doubtful they're concerned about customizations being there to 'set race options further apart'.