1. #12121
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    This has been explained exactly 8 times recently before you asked for it again.

    They are not playable, that is the reason why they are not more present than they are.
    Bad argument. Not only is it unsupported, their race is playable through the blood elves. We have seen numerous races being prevalent in the game despite not being playable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    The same happens with Taunka,
    Who are barely ever around.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    Revantusk
    Whose playable race is the trolls.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    and Stonemaul.
    Who are prevalent across multiple expansions.
    The hozen have been prevalent across multiple areas since their appearance in MoP and they are not playable including the Jinyu, and the Ankoan. There are multiple races who are not playable despite being repeatedly present including mur'locs. The argument of "they aren't prevalent because they aren't playable" is an argument with no basis.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    This is the 9º time this has been explained.
    Cease the hyperbole, it does not favor your argument.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    But you simply don't like it, this is the problem, you are not debating anything, you are just confronting others in an attempt of making them shy away.
    Address my argument above Aldo. The argument of them not being playable and therefore, not being present does not work given many races such as goblins and worgens were not playable but were very prevalent before being playable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    Also... You gladly stopped saying that all that is going against you is emotional, but to repeat my name as a way to call my attention is pretty emotional from your part if you ask me.
    What would you like me to call you Aldo? That is the name you chose, so I am not sure why this annoys you so much.

  2. #12122
    Bloodsail Admiral Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broflake View Post
    Bad argument. Not only is it unsupported, their race is playable through the blood elves. We have seen numerous races being prevalent in the game despite not being playable.


    Who are barely ever around.

    Whose playable race is the trolls.

    Who are prevalent across multiple expansions.
    The hozen have been prevalent across multiple areas since their appearance in MoP and they are not playable including the Jinyu, and the Ankoan. There are multiple races who are not playable despite being repeatedly present including mur'locs. The argument of "they aren't prevalent because they aren't playable" is an argument with no basis.


    Cease the hyperbole, it does not favor your argument.

    Address my argument above Aldo. The argument of them not being playable and therefore, not being present does not work given many races such as goblins and worgens were not playable but were very prevalent before being playable.

    What would you like me to call you Aldo? That is the name you chose, so I am not sure why this annoys you so much.
    Revantusk trolls are forest trolls, not jungle trolls like the Darkspear.

    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Revantusk_tribe

    The Stonemaul Ogres appear on Feralas and Dustwallow Marsh. Doesn't seem like a lot of places, all comprised on Cataclysm so I don't understand where the 'multiple expansions' statement comes from. Oh yeah, they sent one of their mages to support in Pandaria, 3/8 expansions if Vanilla is also counted alongside Cataclysm.

    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Stonemaul_clan

    Taunka are Horde members. We actually had quests where they very explicitly pledged their allegiance to the Horde.

    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Blood_Oath..._Horde_(quest)

    As you can see, these horde members are not playable, and also not very present.

    One big example of this are the Dark Iron Dwarves, who had little appearances until they became playable, time where they not only started appearing out the in the world, but also appeared as a boss fight that the Horde had to fight against.

    High elves appeared on the world more than some playable races, alongside the Alliance, that tells a lot.

    So... About the name part... That perception of me getting 'upset' by you calling me repeatedly by my name is pretty wrong. It's more than a bother and a sense of 'uneasyness' if you wish, because you very recently tried to attack me through saying that every thing I said made no sense because I was all emotional about everything. And you doing that strikes me as being very hypocritical, since you are just trying to get this to personal field again and again.

    Well, this has been entertaining, I addressed everything that was forcibly put in doubt. I am kinda faulting to my own words, since you are keeping that troubling attitude again and again and I keep responding. But this is also kind of a trap for me, since I actually care of what is being talked about and to let commentary as that run wild goes against what is being defended.

  3. #12123
    Field Marshal bdlovelace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    Nowhere does he say anything about "the lore and potential for blue eyes simply requires a strong devotion to the arcane, same as golden eyes with priests and paladins".
    i never claimed thats what moorgard said. as the sunwell is a mixture of holy/arcane now, i was implying that the potential for blue eyes is there for mages who have a strong connection to the arcane. just like how he explained golden eyes work for priests and paladins

    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    You understand that neither of his responses equate to "the senior narrative designer, literally less then a month ago, stating these blue eyed blood elf NPCs arent a bug, havent been changed despite numerous bug tickets from the pro side, and there is a story for them."
    you can interpret it any way you want like the pro side always do. with that tweet he confirmed blue eyed blood elves already exist and that there is a story for them. therefore whats more likely in the future blue eyed blood elves as a face/eye color customization(which ion has already teased) or the high elf race made neutral because the alliance have a couple decorative 'high' elf portal keepers
    Last edited by bdlovelace; 2019-10-03 at 01:37 AM.

  4. #12124
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    Revantusk trolls are forest trolls, not jungle trolls like the Darkspear.
    They are still trolls dude.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    The Stonemaul Ogres appear on Feralas and Dustwallow Marsh. Doesn't seem like a lot of places, all comprised on Cataclysm so I don't understand where the 'multiple expansions' statement comes from. Oh yeah, they sent one of their mages to support in Pandaria, 3/8 expansions if Vanilla is also counted alongside Cataclysm.
    The fact we are counting ogres as a whole and not speaking of singular groups for the sake of serving a pedantic argument?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post

    Taunka are Horde members. We actually had quests where they very explicitly pledged their allegiance to the Horde.
    Cool, and their relevance in comparison to other races has been very small to say the least.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    As you can see, these horde members are not playable, and also not very present.
    Except that their races have been present in one form or another, that has nothing to do with them being playable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    One big example of this are the Dark Iron Dwarves, who had little appearances until they became playable, time where they not only started appearing out the in the world, but also appeared as a boss fight that the Horde had to fight against.
    They had a 9 boss dungeon dedicated to them and are amongst the most well known in the game. This is not a case where they were exactly not prolific either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    High elves appeared on the world more than some playable races, alongside the Alliance, that tells a lot.
    You do realize this also contradicts your argument as well yes?
    If they don't appear often, they are not palyable.
    Now you are stating high elves appear more often than others, but they are not playable as well.
    Clearly, this is simply a matter of it being based on the story we are seeing in the expansion with playability having nothing to do with prominence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    So... About the name part... That perception of me getting 'upset' by you calling me repeatedly by my name is pretty wrong. It's more than a bother and a sense of 'uneasyness' if you wish,
    So it upsets you when I called you by your name because you perceived I was somehow seeking to upset you...even though it is the name you chose. I believe you are reading far too much into the matter.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    Well, this has been entertaining, I addressed everything that was forcibly put in doubt. I am kinda faulting to my own words, since you are keeping that troubling attitude again and again and I keep responding. But this is also kind of a trap for me, since I actually care of what is being talked about and to let commentary as that run wild goes against what is being defended.
    So...earlier when you said "don't engage in circular arguments", it had nothing to do with a principle you believed in and mostly was an attempt to try and rally a group to ignore me.

  5. #12125
    Bloodsail Admiral Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdlovelace View Post
    i never claimed thats what moorgard said. as the sunwell is a mixture of holy/arcane now, i was implying that the potential for blue eyes is there for mages who have a strong connection to the arcane. just like how he explained golden eyes work for priests and paladins
    You changed the word 'light' with 'arcane'.

    That is not what was said, that was your interpretation of it and it had not any basis for it than trying to fit a square in a circle.

    you can interpret it any way you want like the pro side always do. with that tweet he confirmed blue eyed blood elves already exist and that there is a story for them. therefore whats more likely in the future blue eyed blood elves as a face/eye color customization(which ion has already teased) or the high elf race made neutral because the alliance have a couple decorative 'high' elf portal keepers
    There are more things with 'eye customization' than the Blood elves, and these are just conjectures.

    In fact, what there is, are some -apparently- Blood elves that have blue eyes. Does that mean they got them? Or that they never changed it? This is a rhetorical question since the answer is clear. They always had them.

    You see, this attempt of diminishing everything on: 'It's just because there are a pair of 'decorative' High elf portal keepers' is too dishonest.

    I don't know what you try to accomplish but to simply get out of the way and start over again with things that were already talked about (and you know they were talked about because you seem to be involved) is not arguing, it is the antithesis of having a conversation. If you truly want to oppose at least do so with some respect for the topic that is being held.




    Edit:

    I would like to share an image that someone posted on discord, I think these glowing tattoos work very well to make the eyes more visible, I like the concept.

    Last edited by Aldo Hawk; 2019-10-03 at 03:19 AM.

  6. #12126
    Edit: Doesn't look too different from my DK blood elf set
    Last edited by Broflake; 2019-10-03 at 03:30 AM.

  7. #12127
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    I would like to share an image that someone posted on discord, I think these glowing tattoos work very well to make the eyes more visible, I like the concept.

    Now that's what a High Elf should look like! Damn, she looks nothing like a Blood Elf! So much for that argument lol. Only subtle changes are needed to differentiate them, just like they did with Night Elves->Nightborne.

  8. #12128
    Bloodsail Admiral Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anti-fascist View Post
    Now that's what a High Elf should look like! Damn, she looks nothing like a Blood Elf! So much for that argument lol. Only subtle changes are needed to differentiate them, just like they did with Night Elves->Nightborne.
    It is the way it is, not a lot can be made without changing the base appearance, but I consider this a nice touch to mark what differentiates them physically from Blood elves.

    This could be interpreted as them making clear that they are not Blood elves through makeup that show their physical differences better.

    Also, I would make them extra pale, or something like that, with the explanation that fel didn't gave them these more tanned colors that Blood elves have, as a way to show how the Blood elves looked like before the installment of fel crystals.

    Do you have any suggestion? I would be glad to hear them!

    Edit: Also... Look at this image:

    See the aura around the maw and the tip of the tail? This could be interesting to show on them on parts where they put these 'magical tattoos' or something. This way it could be seen from a certain distance.
    Last edited by Aldo Hawk; 2019-10-03 at 03:57 AM.

  9. #12129
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    It is the way it is, not a lot can be made without changing the base appearance, but I consider this a nice touch to mark what differentiates them physically from Blood elves.

    This could be interpreted as them making clear that they are not Blood elves through makeup that show their physical differences better.

    Also, I would make them extra pale, or something like that, with the explanation that fel didn't gave them these more tanned colors that Blood elves have, as a way to show how the Blood elves looked like before the installment of fel crystals.

    Do you have any suggestion? I would be glad to hear them!

    Edit: Also... Look at this image:

    See the aura around the maw and the tip of the tail? This could be interesting to show on them on parts where they put these 'magical tattoos' or something. This way it could be seen from a certain distance.
    Yes, that's a good idea! The tattoos having an edge glow would really set them off visually. I also like the idea of the tattoos being mana batteries to store energy without the Sunwell, and this effect would make that apparent.

  10. #12130
    Field Marshal bdlovelace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    I would like to share an image that someone posted on discord, I think these glowing tattoos work very well to make the eyes more visible, I like the concept.
    the problem is its still identical to blood elves, the same race which is already playable. its a blue eyed blood elf and we have already been told eye color "is not quite the same"(obviously). otherwise golden eyed blood elves would have been an AR

    oh and the head is really small and out of proportion. intentional?
    Last edited by bdlovelace; 2019-10-03 at 04:40 AM.

  11. #12131
    Bloodsail Admiral Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdlovelace View Post
    the problem is its still identical to blood elves(the same race). its a blue eyed blood elf and we have already been told eye color "is not quite the same"(obviously). otherwise golden eyed blood elves would have been an AR
    Golden eyed Blood elves are the same Blood elves as we always knew about, because they get those by worshiping the light through the Sunwell and nothing else, they are the same people as those with green eyes. So the argument of them having to be their own Allied race because of the eye color is not quite strong.

    It is what it is, anyone can simply not like it, but to say that it is just a blue eyed Blood elf misses the point entirely.

    oh and the head is really small and out of proportion. intentional?
    I don't know, didn't noticed, just took the image to show it off. Surely kind of a bad polishing of the model. Don't know exactly why you say it has to be intentional either but I may have an idea of why.

  12. #12132
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    I would like to share an image that someone posted on discord, I think these glowing tattoos work very well to make the eyes more visible, I like the concept.
    I love how passionate people are about high elves and all the fanart they come up with. This is a very accurate depiction of what a high elf allied race might look like. I see them having fair to tanned skin, non-glowing blue eyes, and war paint or tattoos. Hairstyles can be changed up so they are slightly different than blood elf and void elf hairstyles, maybe give them more human-inspired hair colors.

  13. #12133
    Give them the option for glowing hands like Thalyssra has. Its a cool visual effect like the new fire beards the Dark Irons have. And the Nightborne arent using it. All Im saying is that I want a High Elf that looks like Wrathion, and can be a druid.

    Also, we need elves and elf cities. All of our elf cities are burnt down, with a handful of void elves literally living on a rock. It's time to take Dalaran back. The Horde already has Silvermoon and Suramar. They owe us a new elf city.

  14. #12134
    Brewmaster elbleuet's Avatar
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    That high elf with facial marks is really awesome. Hope we get some high elf costumizations soon.
    "If you want to play alongside High and Void elves, the Alliance is waiting for you"

  15. #12135
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    Golden eyed Blood elves are the same Blood elves as we always knew about, because they get those by worshiping the light through the Sunwell and nothing else,
    Correction, you don't need to be worshipping the light to get golden eyes per Blizzard devs. I do wish people would correct themselves on this matter.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    they are the same people as those with green eyes. So the argument of them having to be their own Allied race because of the eye color is not quite strong.
    Yes, it really is.
    The difference between a blood elf and a high elf is non-existent because they are the same people. So, if you are suggesting this concept is xfor high elves then

    1. Gold eye blood elves should be a separate AR because of eye color difference alone which until MoP, was the only difference between a blood elf and a high elf, and your concept is literally just an eye color change.

    2. It supports the argument about the requests being purely about pale skinned elves.

    Play horde if this is what you desire.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    It is what it is, anyone can simply not like it, but to say that it is just a blue eyed Blood elf misses the point entirely.
    She's a brunette version of Lanesh steelweaver, a blood elf with blue eyes who is blonde.

  16. #12136
    Brewmaster elbleuet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdlovelace View Post

    you can interpret it any way you want like the pro side always do. with that tweet he confirmed blue eyed blood elves already exist and that there is a story for them. therefore whats more likely in the future blue eyed blood elves as a face/eye color customization(which ion has already teased) or the high elf race made neutral because the alliance have a couple decorative 'high' elf portal keepers
    The Alliance starting zone has friendly blood elves in it. The blood elf costumization is totally coming for the void elves guys !
    ... No. If you want to play alongside Blue-eyed blood elves, the Alliance is waiting for you
    And the Alliance has more than some "decorative" high elf portal keepers. You know... We have rangers, a ranger-general, a former ranger-captain of Silvermoon, some battle mages, mages & archmages, farstriders, high elf paladins, some civilians ...

    You have Lanesh Streeweaver. Okai.
    "If you want to play alongside High and Void elves, the Alliance is waiting for you"

  17. #12137
    I am Murloc! FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    I would like to share an image that someone posted on discord, I think these glowing tattoos work very well to make the eyes more visible, I like the concept.

    I love this. Doesn’t have that uppity/stuck up face of Blood Elves.

    Looks like a nice blending of High Elf personality and looks (aka their loyalty to Alliance/Humans) with the face and hairstyle.

    Also love the tattoo idea, making themselves with arcane tattoos to cover their magical withdrawal would be DOPE.

    Could even say lore wise they do this so they do not have to be reliant on the Sunwell anymore.

    I agree with others that it’s nice to see High Elves adopt more human esque hairstyles and colors. Like the one shown here.

    Tell the artist they did a wonderful job.

  18. #12138
    Quote Originally Posted by Broflake View Post
    And the why they did it is important because nothing occurs in a vacuum. All you're doing is shaking your head and saying it isn't valid because you're desperately trying to retain a weak argument.
    The reason it doesn't matter is because, if Blizzard changes their mind and decide to implement high elves as a playable race, there will be a reason for this change of mind. Which is why saying "yeah but Blizzard did this because of that" is meaningless. Because, of course, if Blizzard "does this", i.e., implement high elves, it'll obviously be "because of that", i.e., whatever reason that caused them to change their stance.

    This is categorically false given the ability to transmog.
    If it didnt matter, then any race can be on any side because armor hides their appearance. Le shrug.
    This is not false, because few people hide all pieces of their gear. Most keep full armor. The transmog issue is simply to point out how the aesthetics argument no longer applies due to allied races.

    Several times you've asserted I've made statements that I have never made, and you don't even acknowledge my pointing it out to you. I don't need to argue with you since anyone can read your posts and see it anyway. So...
    And yet, you do argue.

    Cool, which part was wrong information?
    It's literally stated in the part you quoted.

    Cool, cite the lore supporting it because everything says all thalassian elves suffered the same.
    The lore of Rommath returning from Outland with Illidan's knowledge of 'mana tap', i.e. draining mana from living beings. The lore of the high elves rejecting such notion, and therefore having to endure it on their own.

    I mean...again...not disagreeing with you on why the schism occurred, I am simply disagreeing with you on the notion that high elves suffered more. Furthermore, yeah, there is, go read your posts where this all began you'l
    Well, then you're disagreeing with established lore of the game. The high elves did suffer more than blood elves because the high elves refused to depend on draining mana from living beings.

    You do realize we saw both Worgens and Goblins prior to Cata as non-playable races right? They weren't present in WotLK because there were no goblin/worgen DK's period. I find it hilarious you say "you don't see any because they weren't playable til Cata" but then in your previous response, spoke of how they were present everywhere prior to it. You're incredibly inconsistent. The rest of this response was irrelevant so its been removed.
    Apples and Oranges. The reason we didn't see goblins and worgen death knights during Wrath (or, at least, I don't remember seeing any) is because they weren't a playable race at the time. But then the reason we can make goblin and worgen playable characters in Cata and onward is because those two races were widely available around the world during the Wrath era, which is why it's lore-consistent to retroactively add goblin/worgen death knights as a playable race/class combo to the game.

    Other races, like pandaren, were not widely available in Kalimdor/Eastern Kingdoms at the time of the Wrath expansion. Also, the rest of my response was not "irrelevant" as I basically repeated what I wrote in the post, only with a few more words.

    That...isn't what projected means. Do refrain from trying to flamebait.
    That is precisely what "projection" means. You consistently misrepresent my arguments, and now you're accusing me of that. Though I'm not surprised you said this, considering it seems you apparently also don't know what "flame-bait" means.

    Except for the fact that Rommath taught all the thalassian elves mana tapping, and so the high elves were using mana tapping. They simply refused to mana tap living things. Your argument is again, unsupported.
    It is supported. Magical artifacts are much more rare than they appear to be in Warcraft. And even if you were right, playable high elves would not have the 'mana tap' racial since you can only use your racials on player characters, and high elves refuse to use it on living beings, so, no, they would not have that racial.

    Yes, they did, and it is clearly stated in the blood elf starter zone the challenges of magic addiction. So again, you are incorrect.
    No, the TBC intro spoke of you "mastering your thirst for magic", and the quest lines show that you do it through draining mana from living beings. Something the high elves refused to have the luxury of.

    Cool, name the high elves who were out there fighting the scourge outside of the quel'lithien high elves? It was stated Vereesa herself fled Lordaeron and stayed in Stormwind with Rommath in relative safety.
    You want me to name unnamed NPCs? Either way, just read Lor'themar's short story "in the Shadow of the Sun" and you'll have two high elf names.

    Cool, void elves should scratch the itch then since they're blood elves who were high elves.
    Except we don't want "were who were" high elves. We want high elves. Blood elves are not the high elves of today.

    Again, there are barriers which have also been stated by Blizzard as existing .
    Barriers such as...? You mention "gameplay barriers" a lot, and claim they were stated by Blizzard... but you haven't shown a single one that isn't the already-debunked silhouette argument.

    And why did they change their mind on it?
    Originally "not enough interest" for them to do it. That changed.
    High elves? Most requested, still not playable. Clearly, the context is different.
    Again, the reason "why" is irrelevant, because if Blizzard change their mind regarding high elves, then it would have been for a reason. There is always a reason, so saying "Classic doesn't count because they did so for a reason" is not a really valid argument.

    Which is why the most popular race in the game in Vanilla WoW was humans, and the most popular race in the game after TBC has been blood elves, and why the most popular allied race by far is void elves. Aesthetics is part of gameplay believe it or not.
    Not what I meant. 'Aesthetics', as in, 'unique silhoettes'. If anything, you're giving a reason for the introduction of high elves, as what you state means high elves would be a popular pick.

    Hey, what you do is your own thing. I simply stated its online.
    You stated:
    Quote Originally Posted by Broflake View Post
    Its free online

  19. #12139
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    Look, this is not about agreeing. When something is correct, it is correct. Doesn't matter who agrees. Stop using others to support your statements.
    This is odd coming from you, considering most of our points are correct and based in the game or in the lore. None of the speculation, feelings, or theories you provide are correct, given that they can't be substantiated by any medium in or out of the game or its given lore. It's all in your head, therefore the term "head canon" has become quite prevalent in our posts.

    But I'll remember to remind you of that when correct information is provided, and you choose to ignore it simply because it's not what you want to hear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    Ielenia has brought many, many points that are correct regarding the matter, you have brought much, much less to the conversation, only troubled answers to those who are not in your position or don't agree with you.
    Broflake has concisely, and politely mind you, added A LOT to the anti-High Elf position of late. He or she has cited many articles in official lore that support his arguments. Ielenia mostly provides feelings, speculation, and dismissive responses. I've been following them closely. It doesn't seem you have, but then again, I don't fully expect you to be unbiased. You've shown time and time again that you're incapable of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    You don't want to debate nor discuss, you want to win a fight and to shut down the request. I have pretty much demonstrated it time and time again, very extensively may I add.
    We do want to debate. That's what we're doing. We also want to provide closure on this matter. In your mind, are we "fighting"? That would explain the emotional responses from you instead of rational ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    That attitude leads nowhere and my suggestion for others is to stop engaging in such circular behavior.
    Ahh, that "circular" word that's becoming popular. It's rather obvious you all would prefer this to be an echo chamber, but thankfully people like Kai, Broflake, myself, and others are less apt to provide you that. You'll just have to pony up the stones and deal with opposition, or succumb to the reality that High Elves are playable, just not on the Alliance faction.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    In the end, it just appeal to those who mindlessly agree and does nothing to understand the other sides of the argument.
    This is shocking coming from you. You have not once demonstrated the slightest inclination to understand the other side of the argument.
    Last edited by Black Goat; 2019-10-03 at 02:59 PM.

  20. #12140
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    The reason it doesn't matter is because,
    Yes...it does...becaus eit provides insight on what is necessary for a business to consider implementation of something. Nothing comes without cost and nothing comes without benefit. One needs to weigh the two, and the presence of Classic means the circumstances changed in such a way it benefitted them. The circumstances have not changed in regards to high elves. So no, you can't say "well they'll have a reason if they change their mind". Cool story, but if you don't care about the reason why are you even holding this discussion?
    If blizzard will make them available for a reason then there is no point to a discussion now is there?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post

    This is not false, because few people hide all pieces of their gear. Most keep full armor. The transmog issue is simply to point out how the aesthetics argument no longer applies due to allied races.
    Cool, do you have any data to provide this information?
    Fact of the matter is they look different, and first impressions on a race when you are building a character matters, and demonstrates these differences. What the player does after does not matter because they've already made their choice on a race based on a number of factors including the aesthetics of that race.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    And yet, you do argue.
    As do you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    It's literally stated in the part you quoted.
    I would not question you if it were

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    The lore of Rommath returning from Outland with Illidan's knowledge of 'mana tap', i.e. draining mana from living beings. The lore of the high elves rejecting such notion, and therefore having to endure it on their own.
    They rejected what they mana tapped. They did not reject learning mana tapping. I mean, it is well indicated they know how to mana tap and were doing so in Northrend and Outland to meet their addiction needs just like blood elves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Well, then you're disagreeing with established lore of the game. The high elves did suffer more than blood elves because the high elves refused to depend on draining mana from living beings.
    Cool, cite the information.
    The lore states they all suffered, it does not state who suffered more or less. In fact, there were many blood elves who were also mana tapping arcane crystals rather than creatures.
    Let alone the fact that biologically they are the same race, so their suffering would be equal throughout depending on their class.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Apples and Oranges.
    No. Wrong analogy.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    The reason we didn't see goblins and worgen death knights during Wrath (or, at least, I don't remember seeing any) is because they weren't a playable race at the time. But then the reason we can make goblin and worgen playable characters in Cata and onward is because those two races were widely available around the world during the Wrath era, which is why it's lore-consistent to retroactively add goblin/worgen death knights as a playable race/class combo to the game.
    We're both wrong, there are worgens and goblins present during Wrath, the thing is the following.
    All Worgen DK are from shadowkeep, and these worgen were not present to cross Arthas path.
    Goblins are from the steamwheedle cartel and also were not present for Arthas to raise. In both, the story simply was non-existent.
    Furthermore the argument about presence is a poor one given it is largely inconsistent since many races are prevalent throughout WoW but are not present.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Other races, like pandaren, were not widely available in Kalimdor/Eastern Kingdoms at the time of the Wrath expansion. Also, the rest of my response was not "irrelevant" as I basically repeated what I wrote in the post, only with a few more words.
    Which is why there are no Pandaren DK's as cited by Blizzard. The rest of your post was irrelevant since it had been addressed and/or did not add to the discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    That is precisely what "projection" means. You consistently misrepresent my arguments, and now you're accusing me of that. Though I'm not surprised you said this, considering it seems you apparently also don't know what "flame-bait" means.
    How have I mis-represented your arguments? I have addressed them as is, so I fail to see how it is a strawman. On the other hand, you have attributed arguments to me which I have never made repeatedly.
    So... yeah...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    It is supported. Magical artifacts are much more rare than they appear to be in Warcraft. And even if you were right, playable high elves would not have the 'mana tap' racial since you can only use your racials on player characters, and high elves refuse to use it on living beings, so, no, they would not have that racial.
    Mana tapping is an ability meant ot siphon mana from objects or living things. This is explicitly stated in lore.
    You have nothing to argue in regards to how rare those artifacts are because even if they are rare, there are arcane leylines, gems, objects, etc etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    No, the TBC intro spoke of you "mastering your thirst for magic",
    Which is their addiction to magic that all elves suffer. You literally repeated what I stated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Something the high elves refused to have the luxury of.
    They just chose to mana tap magical objects, which if they had no access to, would result in physical and mental harm. As stated in lore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    You want me to name unnamed NPCs? Either way, just read Lor'themar's short story "in the Shadow of the Sun" and you'll have two high elf names.
    Shadow of the Sun involves the Quel'lithien elves, who I stated were fighting earlier. Name the other ones.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Except we don't want "were who were" high elves. We want high elves. Blood elves are not the high elves of today.
    Everyone who is a blood elf was a high elf. So...yes...we know who the high elves were which is anyone who calls themselves a high elf or a blood elf. Seriously, the high elves even call the blood elves their people, their kin, their brothers and sisters. Why are you being a wall and ignoring facts?
    ALL blood elves are high elves and were present for the events of WC3.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Barriers such as...? You mention "gameplay barriers" a lot, and claim they were stated by Blizzard... but you haven't shown a single one that isn't the already-debunked silhouette argument.
    The fact they both look the same and are the same race and therefore, they are already palyable through the Horde?
    The fact that making them playable on the alliance makes the race neutral and damage faction distinction?
    The fact you already have void elves and are essentially demanding to have more than what the horde has access, and therefore, introduce gameplay imbalance?
    The fact that it was cited by Blizzard after the creation of void elves?
    The fact that the example of a high elf in the last page is LITERALLY A BRUNETTE VERSION OF LANESH STEELWEAVER

    A
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    gain, the reason "why" is irrelevant,
    Except it is relevant otherwise it wouldnt have happened.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post

    Not what I meant. 'Aesthetics', as in, 'unique silhoettes'. If anything, you're giving a reason for the introduction of high elves, as what you state means high elves would be a popular pick.
    Aesthetics is part of silhouettes...
    That is some mental gymnastics about the popularity of high elves btw.
    I mean...you're suggesting everyone who would paly one is a new palyer and therefore would make blizzard money. This is obviously not true.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    You stated:
    I don't care

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