Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Obelisk Kai]

Any suggestions for High Elf changes? New themes, etc... ?

Purple. With tentacles and a void theme.

Take the hint, what you are asking for was already done and you don't like it. That is unfortunate but I don't see how it's anyone else's problem but your own.

[Goldielocks]

And again there is basis in the request asking for High Elves. It's not like some people are asking to play a Titan or something. Yet some seem to think asking for High Elves is to ask for the impossible. I don't agree with that.

How much you agree or any of us argue is irrelevant. The dev team doesn't want to do it, and have heavily implied that they don't want to do it.

This crusade is grand delusion.

[FlubberPuddy]

Any suggestions for High Elf changes? New themes, etc... ?

I know you're using the commando style warpaints to harken back to WC2 settings, but how about some tattoo styles like those of Alleria, Traycor?

Those would feel very modern, yet still that High Elf Ranger theme esque. Could even make some rune-looking tattoos based off of Dalaran for High Elves of the Silver Covenant?

Just throwing more ideas out there, wish I had the artistic skills to help contribute designs!

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How much you agree or any of us argue is irrelevant. The dev team doesn't want to do it, and have heavily implied that they don't want to do it.

This crusade is grand delusion.

That's very true. It doesn't matter what you or I or anyone else thinks individually. But to say the community as a whole thinks doesn't matter is completely wrong since when it concerns Allied Races, the devs have said to us to tell them what we'd like to see.

Therefore people are gathering and supporting and putting forth cases for the Allied Races they'd like to see. Again, this is still up to the devs, but so far I'd say it's looking good.

If you truly believe it won't happen then as I said before, that's good for you. You're not going to convince most to stop though, that's like asking sports fan to stop cheering for their team before the game is over. It's not over till the game's over! (Or in this case till there's a definitive "No")

[Goldielocks]

If you truly believe it won't happen then as I said before, that's good for you. You're not going to convince most to stop though, that's like asking sports fan to stop cheering for their team before the game is over. It's not over till the game's over! (Or in this case till there's a definitive "No")

You're not going to get a definitive no for the same reason why it makes sense that High Elves will never come to the Alliance. They're a company first. If Blizzard outright says "High Elves are never happening," who knows how many zealots will quit enjoying the game and stop paying their subs.

You have to ask yourself, if High Elves are such an easy and bountiful cash grab, then why haven't they happened yet? Don't say "oh the Devs wanted to do something new." That's not a real answer. Most of the allied races aren't new at all. There must be a reason why Void Elves look the way they do, as opposed to the other allied races looking like they could pass for racial aesthetic features. It has to do with the marketing of the game. That's what matters to Blizzard first. The lore heels to keep the game running.

The amount of people who say "I just don't understand why people are against High Elves" is ridiculous. It's a realistic perspective.

[Obelisk Kai]

How much you agree or any of us argue is irrelevant. The dev team doesn't want to do it, and have heavily implied that they don't want to do it.

This crusade is grand delusion.

The Alliance can't have them as, despite Traycor's doodles, they are a de facto neutralization of the Horde's most popular race. It would be akin to Horde players demanding Alterac Humans as a playable race but they are totally different because now they all have mohawks.

Faction diversity matters and saying 'no it doesn't', as some have implied, is not only a completely ridiculous stance as we head into an expansion dominated by all out war between the two factions but it's just such a pathetic response. "Faction diversity doesn't matter, because if I accepted it did I'd understand I am wasting my time asking for High Elves" is a far more honest reading.

The continuing agitation for High Elves is becoming a poison. Alliance players wail about the all attention the Horde is getting this expansion, yet they devote themselves to this goal that they have no chance of realising. The Horde is doing better because the Horde asks for reasonable things.

They truly believe that a demonstration of their desire is all that is required, ignoring the fact that Blizzard has quite happily ignored them for a decade and will ignore them for the next decade too. This game's development is NOT a democracy and sometimes just because a group of players desires something does not mean they are going to get it, especially if that group persists in minimising or ignoring the valid concerns and points raised against their goal because they find such discussion inconvenient or not actually important.

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You're not going to get a definitive no for the same reason why it makes sense that High Elves will never come to the Alliance. They're a company first. If Blizzard outright says "High Elves are never happening," who knows how many zealots will quit enjoying the game and stop paying their subs.

You have to ask yourself, if High Elves are such an easy and bountiful cash grab, then why haven't they happened yet? Don't say "oh the Devs wanted to do something new." That's not a real answer. Most of the allied races aren't new at all. There must be a reason why Void Elves look the way they do, and it has to do with the marketing of the game. That's what matters to Blizzard first. The lore heels to keep the game running.

The amount of people who say "I just don't understand why people are against High Elves" is ridiculous. It's a realistic perspective.

Ion didn't say High Elves are never going to be playable.

He said High Elves are pretty much playable as Blood Elves on the Horde.

So they're right, he really didn't say no. High Elves are playable.

[Goldielocks]

Ion didn't say High Elves are never going to be playable.

He said High Elves are pretty much playable as Blood Elves on the Horde.

So they're right, he really didn't say no. High Elves are playable.

Not playable on the Alliance though. That's the dream these people want. If Ion says "High Elves will always be Horde," imagine the outrage.

Or even worse the "he'll probably eventually change his mind" reaction that I've seen a few people on this forum put up.

[Obelisk Kai]

Not playable on the Alliance though. That's the dream these people want. If Ion says "High Elves will always be Horde," imagine the outrage.

Or even worse the "he'll probably eventually change his mind" reaction that I've seen a few people on this forum put up.

Well yes, the logical inference a rational minded person would take from his statement is that High Elves are playable on the Horde and as such are not going to be available to the Alliance, particularly as they've just created Void Elves as a variant.

But he literally didn't say no and he literally said they are playable...so I guess we actually have to concede on something. Ion did not say 'no' in that video.

[FlubberPuddy]

You're not going to get a definitive no for the same reason why it makes sense that High Elves will never come to the Alliance. They're a company first. If Blizzard outright says "High Elves are never happening," who knows how many zealots will quit enjoying the game and stop paying their subs.

You have to ask yourself, if High Elves are such an easy and bountiful cash grab, then why haven't they happened yet? Don't say "oh the Devs wanted to do something new." That's not a real answer. Most of the allied races aren't new at all. There must be a reason why Void Elves look the way they do, as opposed to the other allied races looking like they could pass for racial aesthetic features. It has to do with the marketing of the game. That's what matters to Blizzard first. The lore heels to keep the game running.

The amount of people who say "I just don't understand why people are against High Elves" is ridiculous. It's a realistic perspective.

Ahh now the "Business argument" comes up, when I've been using it this whole time trying to say to High Elf opposers the reason he made that comment was because Void Elves had just been revealed. Again, as I said another time too, Blood Elves got Golden Eyes, if they really wanted to end the High Elf debate they would've added Blue Eyes to Blood Elves too.

So how come you say it's a "business decision" that he won't ever say "No" on High Elves, but I can't say it's a "business decision" that he tried downplaying High Elves in the midst of Void Elf reveal? No business would ever shoot themselves in the foot by mentioning, "oh yeah that race you really want is going to come later." He can say that about Mag'har because they hadn't just unveiled an Orc at all.

It's kind of like saying, do people think then that Wildhammer Dwarves are never happening, because of Dark Irons? Because following some of your guys' logic it would mean WH Dwarves won't happen due to Dark Iron, and Blizzard have been staying mum about WH Dwarves too, it's just Ion wasn't asked about them at Blizzcon.

inb4 "WH Dwarves don't take an opposite faction race" because that's exactly what Void Elves did already, so that argument is dead.

[Traycor]

I know you're using the commando style warpaints to harken back to WC2 settings, but how about some tattoo styles like those of Alleria, Traycor?

Thanks! Her tattoo is based on the same WCII designs. These concepts here are just flat solid colors for the most part, but if these were implemented in game, I imagine they would look similar to what her model has. Maybe with less detail, because she's a major NPC, but you get the idea. I've not taken the time to make any of these concepts look like final artwork or fully modeled texture maps, etc, nor would I want to.

___________________________

As a completely random side note, I ran across this old piece of fan art I made way back in 2008. For some reason I thought this was older than that, but I guess I made it when WotLK was on the way.

[Goldielocks]

Ahh now the "Business argument" comes up, when I've been using it this whole time trying to say to High Elf opposers the reason he made that comment was because Void Elves had just been revealed. Again, as I said another time too, Blood Elves got Golden Eyes, if they really wanted to end the High Elf debate they would've added Blue Eyes to Blood Elves too.

How would that even work? Where would the Blue Eyes come from? The golden eyes actually make sense in the lore. The Sunwell is replacing the fel taint by infusing them with something else. It's the positive connotation of corruption. The blue eyes would be uncorrupted and that's not happening here.

So how come you say it's a "business decision" that he won't ever say "No" on High Elves, but I can't say it's a "business decision" that he tried downplaying High Elves in the midst of Void Elf reveal? No business would ever shoot themselves in the foot by mentioning, "oh yeah that race you really want is going to come later." He can say that about Mag'har because they hadn't just unveiled an Orc at all.

He gushed about Mag'har orcs in the same interview. That logic doesn't hold up. Besides, saying High Elves are coming later isn't going to affect sales. You have to remember that these players are going to buy/preorder BFA for more than just Void Elves. If they are, then they're a crazy minority. Not that many people would be willing to spend that much on such a small aspect of the game alone.

It's kind of like saying, do people think then that Wildhammer Dwarves are never happening, because of Dark Irons? Because following some of your guys' logic it would mean WH Dwarves won't happen due to Dark Iron, and Blizzard have been staying mum about WH Dwarves too, it's just Ion wasn't asked about them at Blizzcon.

inb4 "WH Dwarves don't take an opposite faction race" because that's exactly what Void Elves did already, so that argument is dead.

The argument isn't dead. The entire reason why this is a problem is because Blood Elves are the Horde's most played race (1.8M Dwarf char made vs 7M Blood Elf char made). Also, the Void Elves look so different precisely for this reason. The model jumped to the other faction. They needed to look different, in order to make BFA more enticing to preorder, as well as continued sales of people who decide to choose a side. It won't seem as legit if both factions start looking too similarly.

[Zorish]

It doesn't matter, it's what it is now, again DEAL WITH IT. And anyway, the fact that there are no reasons for High Elves to be in the Alliance is purely your opinion and nothing else. There are plenty sufficient reasons for them to be in there if you actually bother to think about it. For starters, Dalaran was also a part of the Alliance and hence some High Elves who lived in Dalaran for hundreds of years may have felt more loyalty towards Dalaran than Quel'Thalas and hence weren't really fond of Quel'Thalas joining Horde,

Care to show me HOW MANY elves lived there and how long any one of them. There can be 10 elves who were sent there by Quel'thalas to teach mages, and they can rotate every let's say 10-20 years. Elves NOT rabbits. They don't give birth to 10 children in 10 years. Even if some of them lived there BY THEIR WILL, and slept with humans so creatures like allodi and arathor exists, IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THERE WAS MANY OF THEM.

No, they must not add them to Blood Elves, there are no rules stating that they should.
And the fact that High Elves have no culture is purely your opinion. Again, don't like High Elves, don't play them. You clearly aren't the target audience. Blizzard is not forcing you to play a race they implement. Seriously, arguing with such passion against something that many people want that would have had absolutely no effect on you, your gameplay and lore seems incredibly petty for me.

no rules? really? you said that? Then my rule is LORE! everything what you want add to "High elves" from the past apply to the BLOOD ELVES TOO! Because BLOOD ELVES ARE "HIGH ELVES" and everything from the PAST automaticaly apply to THEM. every tatroo option, hair, skin and etc. BECAUSE THEY NOT MAGICALY CHANGED THEIR APPEARANCE! And this "High elves" who were there during WC2 time, returned to quel'Thalas! And live there! And Blood elves leader IS ranger lord! Even blue eyes apply to Blood elves BECAUSE BLIZZARD said that it will take some time to wear off fel corruption. Now we see golden eyes. And based on Chronicles - new sunwell is font of BOTH arcane and holy!

I don't care about the Blood Elf model. Blizzard can take it away for all I care.

and then you will get nothing. because "High elves" and blood elves are the same species. There is nothing Muscular in "High elves" because Blood elves have same caste farstriders, and your "High elves" still connected to sunwell, and allowed to visit it.

[FlubberPuddy]

Thanks! Her tattoo is based on the same WCII designs. These concepts here are just flat solid colors for the most part, but if these were implemented in game, I imagine they would look similar to what her model has. Maybe with less detail, because she's a major NPC, but you get the idea. I've not taken the time to make any of these concepts look like final artwork or fully modeled texture maps, etc, nor would I want to.

___________________________

As a completely random side note, I ran across this old piece of fan art I made way back in 2008. For some reason I thought this was older than that, but I guess I made it when WotLK was on the way.

Ah I gotcha. AND DAMNNNN That's really amazing artwork!! And you did it way back 10 years ago, holy shiiiiieeet.

If I ever get the chance in some years to draw at that level I would definitely incorporate it for the things I'd love to see come to life. DAMN that's so good man!

[Traycor]

If I ever get the chance in some years to draw at that level I would definitely incorporate it for the things I'd love to see come to life. DAMN that's so good man!

I was terrible at color back in the day, but the pencils hold up pretty well. Didn't have access to a scanner then that could handle a 14x17 Bristol board, so I had to scan it in sections and try to piece it back together, which was a nightmare.

If you're interesting in drawing, just keep practicing. There's tons of great tutorial vids all over the web. Saw a 6 hour Twitch stream the other day of Jim Lee drawing two Superman comic pages. Good stuff!

[FossilFree]

Updated male version. Every one of these skins is darker than the darkest Blood Elf skin. These varieties show that even with darker skin, a blue eyed High Elf can still look like a High Elf, and it will feel different from Blood Elves. I believe with the new hair styles, war paint, feathered wooden ear jewelry, optional hair streaks, optional battle scars, and darker skin tones, the High Elf design is more than sufficiently different from Blood Elves to warrant adding a High Elf Allied Race into the game.

Awesome! This really separates them from the BEs and fits the ranger theme nicely.

[FlubberPuddy]

How would that even work? Where would the Blue Eyes come from? The golden eyes actually make sense in the lore. The Sunwell is replacing the fel taint by infusing them with something else. It's the positive connotation of corruption. The blue eyes would be uncorrupted and that's not happening here.

That point was more made for some of the people here like Obelisk Kai who think Blood Elves should get Blue Eyes as well. Glad to see you have at least some sense in this regard.

He gushed about Mag'har orcs in the same interview. That logic doesn't hold up. Besides, saying High Elves are coming later isn't going to affect sales. You have to remember that these players are going to buy/preorder BFA for more than just Void Elves. If they are, then they're a crazy minority. Not that many people would be willing to spend that much on such a small aspect of the game alone.

Mentioning that Mag'har Orcs are possible = gushing about them? Ok....this is why the opposition to High Elves gets too out of hand. A mere mention of something in one direction is taken to the extreme end point. He just passively mentioned them being possible, while also passively deflecting High Elves. That's really it. And yes see you are agreeing here that they're focusing on what was happening atm to hype up BfA sales. That's exactly my point. He didn't want to focus about High Elves at all, because their entire Blizzcon presentation was on BfA and the Allied Races. And it may not seem like it to you, but I assure you that Allied Races are a feature the majority are excited about, no one really gives much thought to the more "hardcore" topics that are discussed here in MMO-C like class balance or game design or what not. What I was pointing out was, what you're essentially saying: He's keeping the focus on what was unveiled, not the future.

The argument isn't dead. The entire reason why this is a problem is because Blood Elves are the Horde's most played race (1.8M Dwarf char made vs 7M Blood Elf char made). Also, the Void Elves look so different precisely for this reason. The model jumped to the other faction. They needed to look different, in order to make BFA more enticing to preorder, as well as continued sales of people who decide to choose a side. It won't seem as legit if both factions start looking too similarly.

It's pretty dead because if you're able to admit that the model jumped to the other faction, then the argument that High Elves would take "an opposing faction race" is dead because Void Elves already did that and we don't see much people making a huge ruckus over that.

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I was terrible at color back in the day, but the pencils hold up pretty well. Didn't have access to a scanner then that could handle a 14x17 Bristol board, so I had to scan it in sections and try to piece it back together, which was a nightmare.

If you're interesting in drawing, just keep practicing. There's tons of great tutorial vids all over the web. Saw a 6 hour Twitch stream the other day of Jim Lee drawing two Superman comic pages. Good stuff!

Well thanks for going through that work to delight us with this image, much appreciated!

And yeah I used to be into drawing when I was very young (elementary) but gave the hobby up as I grew older. I've always wanted to go back to it, school's keeping me pretty busy but I'll give it a go when Summer hits.

[Goldielocks]

Mentioning that Mag'har Orcs are possible = gushing about them? Ok....this is why the opposition to High Elves gets too out of hand. A mere mention of something in one direction is taken to the extreme end point. He just passively mentioned them being possible, while also passively deflecting High Elves. That's really it. And yes see you are agreeing here that they're focusing on what was happening atm to hype up BfA sales. That's exactly my point. He didn't want to focus about High Elves at all, because their entire Blizzcon presentation was on BfA and the Allied Races. And it may not seem like it to you, but I assure you that Allied Races are a feature the majority are excited about, no one really gives much thought to the more "hardcore" topics that are discussed here in MMO-C like class balance or game design or what not. What I was pointing out was, what you're essentially saying: He's keeping the focus on what was unveiled, not the future.

Yes, Allied Races are an anticipated feature, but specifically mentioning High Elves won't affect much as there are 6 of them coming. As I already mentioned, Void Elves aren't that important in the grand scheme. Blizzard would be affected minimally if they decided to shut down High Elves as an Allied Race. BFA preorders wouldn't change aside from those who cancel out of frustration that Blizzard will never give them this specific thing. Why would anyone else? High Elves are unlikely to come during BFA anyway. Two elf races this close to each other?

As for why they're not doing that, it's game dev politics. They never fully accept or deny except in the position of selling something. A no will never come, just like a no for playable Naga or any other outlandish race will never come lol

It's pretty dead because if you're able to admit that the model jumped to the other faction, then the argument that High Elves would take "an opposing faction race" is dead because Void Elves already did that and we don't see much people making a huge ruckus over that.

That's not it. Void Elves look the way they do because of this reasoning. You can't just ignore this reasoning for the High Elves. It would make the Void Elf changes pointless by comparison. Blizzard could have easily changed the color of the eyes and called it a day, much like they're doing for the Blood Elves. After all, they're being infused with the Light, while the Void Elves are the opposite. There's a reason why the Void Elves have more aesthetic changes and why Light Elves aren't a thing.

Light Elves don't need to exist.

[Shibito]

Awesome! This really separates them from the BEs and fits the ranger theme nicely.

No it doesnt they are just blood elves with tats

[FlubberPuddy]

Yes, Allied Races are an anticipated feature, but specifically mentioning High Elves won't affect much as there are 6 of them coming. As I already mentioned, Void Elves aren't that important in the grand scheme. Blizzard would be affected minimally if they decided to shut down High Elves as an Allied Race. BFA preorders wouldn't change aside from those who cancel out of frustration that Blizzard will never give them this specific thing. Why would anyone else? High Elves are unlikely to come during BFA anyway. Two elf races this close to each other?

No one is asking for High Elves immediately. How can you say here Blizz would be affected minimally if they shut down High Elves but earlier you stated "who knows how many would stop paying their subs" those are two opposing viewpoints you share.

As for why they're not doing that, it's game dev politics. They never fully accept or deny except in the position of selling something. A no will never come, just like a no for playable Naga or any other outlandish race will never come lol

Except they have denied Naga, they said anything with two legs is a candidate, Naga do not fit the bill there lol. They even mention for instance, how would Frost Giants work? Lol again. So there are definitely some hard stops for certain races, they've said as much. Yet remained ambiguous on High Elves.

That's not it. Void Elves look the way they do because of this reasoning. You can't just ignore this reasoning for the High Elves. It would make the Void Elf changes pointless by comparison. Blizzard could have easily changed the color of the eyes and called it a day, much like they're doing for the Blood Elves. After all, they're being infused with the Light, while the Void Elves are the opposite. There's a reason why the Void Elves have more aesthetic changes and why Light Elves aren't a thing.

Light Elves don't need to exist.

Except they went out of their way to make Void Elves a group of exiled Blood Elves, a ton of people were saying as you are saying here that they could've made it so that Void Elves were majorly of High Elves, but they didn't. Your point about Light Elves make no sense because the Blood Elves have turned into a Light-based culture due to the ending of the Sunwell saga, so you already have your Light Elves they just got added eyes to showcase this.

Alliance High Elves don't share the themes of either Blood or Void Elves, Blizzard decided not to close the door on em, despite some thinking they did.

[protip]

Ahh now the "Business argument" comes up, when I've been using it this whole time trying to say to High Elf opposers the reason he made that comment was because Void Elves had just been revealed. Again, as I said another time too, Blood Elves got Golden Eyes, if they really wanted to end the High Elf debate they would've added Blue Eyes to Blood Elves too.

So how come you say it's a "business decision" that he won't ever say "No" on High Elves, but I can't say it's a "business decision" that he tried downplaying High Elves in the midst of Void Elf reveal? No business would ever shoot themselves in the foot by mentioning, "oh yeah that race you really want is going to come later." He can say that about Mag'har because they hadn't just unveiled an Orc at all.

It's kind of like saying, do people think then that Wildhammer Dwarves are never happening, because of Dark Irons? Because following some of your guys' logic it would mean WH Dwarves won't happen due to Dark Iron, and Blizzard have been staying mum about WH Dwarves too, it's just Ion wasn't asked about them at Blizzcon.

inb4 "WH Dwarves don't take an opposite faction race" because that's exactly what Void Elves did already, so that argument is dead.

With your point about void elves being cross faction, you're using an exception as proof of a rule. As for the idea about how they're secretly planning high elves? You do you man.

[FlubberPuddy]

With your point about void elves being cross faction, you're using an exception as proof of a rule. As for the idea about how they're secretly planning high elves? You do you man.

We now have 3 types of races that are cross faction. Night Elves : Nightborne, Blood Elves : Void Elves, Pandaren.

9 playable races per side, 3 race on each side that can be cross faction. That's 33% of available races, not really sure that falls into "an exception to a rule."