1. #12221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    You implied that they're felblood because they're sucking directly off the crystals. That is false. They became felblood because of the copious amount of felblood they consumed, not because of the crystals.
    he is in the terrace sucking fel magic from the crystals, he sucked too much and became that way, the others could not control and became wretched

    there are others in outland who became felblood by sucking fel energy from the corrupted Terrorguards(not drinking his blood), the point is demon blood is fel blood aka fel magic.

    by the wiki those are the stages of the elves who play with fel:


    thats a large variety prob having to do with the amount of fel consumed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Particularly given that the initial phase of the modern pro High Elf campaign, post Blizzcon 2017, was driven by the Unofficial Void Elf thread spam on the official forums that wished to 'compromise' on Void Elves by giving them Blood Elf like skin types.
    I like how you tend to speak a lot on stuff as if you know what's going on, but really don't. I participated in those original "Unofficial Void Elf Discussion" threads, alongside @DeicideUH and they were created before Void Elves were released, while they were still in development. The basic premise of such threads was this:

    "These ideas are just examples of how Blizzard could fulfill the desire for high elves while also making them different from their blood elf cousins. Again, I do not expect Blizzard to change their plans. If anything, they'll probably allow a few "somewhat normal" skin and hair colors for the void elves, but I'd like to start a discussion anyway."

    https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...9181851#post-1

    If you read the OP you can see how from the get-go it criticizes Void Elves after they were announced. Because, don't be silly as you were doing it too, when everyone saw the race files datamining where it showed 'Void_elf' everyone thought it would be about High Elves who look like Alleria and can go void like her. Obviously we only got 1/2 that.

    Once it was clear throughout development, and upon release that Void Elves were not going to be our High Elves. We ceased making Void Elf threads because we don't give a fuck about them anymore and began asking for what we truly wanted, High Elves as an Allied Race.

    It was believed through the Unofficial VE threads that we were not being clear enough. So we pivoted from VEs and made those actual High Elf Discussion threads from then on.

    Thus very soon after, all those "Void Elf Discussions" died out because all the major proponents of those threads didn't care about Void Elves in the first place, we wanted to be able to play the High Elves we see like Vereesa/Silver Covenant/Highvale/7th Legion etc etc.

    And this is why you don't see anymore threads on "Void Elf Discussions" because every major player in those threads, along with its basic premise, was always to get playable High Elves.

    It started there because when things are in development, people hope that it can change, it doesn't mean everyone who made those threads appreciates Void Elves, again look at the threads. It starts on how controversial they are and criticizes many things about Void Elves.

    Just because it's a "Void Elf Discussion" doesn't mean people were saying they liked Void Elves, the community that made those threads never cared for Void Elves in the first place. Being a former participant of those threads, I definitely have the authority to say this and @DeicideUH can come in and confirm if he wants what the main purpose of those threads were, if you don't believe me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Yet, and this is important, Afrasiabi was NOT asked about a dedicated High Elf exile Allied race. The Lost Codex interviewer who posed the question very carefully framed it to say that Void Elves filled the high elf niche within the Alliance. The question was about potential customization options for Void Elves, NOT a High Elf exile allied race.
    Attempting to ignore the context of the question to repurpose the answer in favour of a High Elf Allied race is disingenuous, as that is not what happened at all. He was speaking about the possibility of customizaton options.
    Do you know WHY that question was even asked? It was obviously because of the portion of the community that wants playable High Elves. You speak a lot about context, but you're being super ignorant about the biggest ones. What reason other than for High Elf fans would there be to ask such a question, what popular recent movement back then (still now) would even motion an interviewer to ask that question? You will be hard pressed to find multiple threads of people talking about their love of Void Elves, because most people do not give a shit about them. There's not even much that can be talked about because their lore is a dumpster fire (you will find many who say even tho they like Void Elves their lore is shallow/nonexistant) with no substance and so even if people wanted to talk about Void Elves there isn't much to speak on.

    Context, context, context. Please understand yourself before throwing it everywhere. The point of even bringing that up from the interviewer was for the High Elf community, look at as you point out Tenebra who loves Void Elves. They want lighter skin options but not in the context of High Elves at all. This destroys your assumption of the context since the interviewer is already asking about "to get that High Elf fantasy".

    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Of course, this was far from a promise to the pro High Elf community. Whilst possible, his 'don't give up hope' comment, when combined with the majority of his answer, all indicates what the developers think of when reminded of the High Elf debate is a toxic dumpster fire. 'Don't give up hope' isn't a promise, it's an appeal for decorum on a topic that likely drives the CMs to despair.
    It's funny how you can't bring yourself to say a simple 'yes.' All I wanted to know was whether you thought Alex's comments were to the High Elf community or not. Based on your post right above here, I can squarely see that 'yes' you do agree it was aimed at the community wanting High Elves. That's all I wanted to know, thanks.
    Last edited by FlubberPuddy; 2019-10-07 at 02:08 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    I like how you tend to speak a lot on stuff as if you know what's going on, but really don't. I participated in those original "Unofficial Void Elf Discussion" threads, alongside @DeicideUH and they were created before Void Elves were released, while they were still in development. The basic premise of such threads was this:

    "These ideas are just examples of how Blizzard could fulfill the desire for high elves while also making them different from their blood elf cousins. Again, I do not expect Blizzard to change their plans. If anything, they'll probably allow a few "somewhat normal" skin and hair colors for the void elves, but I'd like to start a discussion anyway."

    https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...9181851#post-1

    If you read the OP you can see how from the get-go it criticizes Void Elves after they were announced. Because, don't be silly as you were doing it too, when everyone saw the race files datamining where it showed 'Void_elf' everyone thought it would be about High Elves who look like Alleria and can go void like her. Obviously we only got 1/2 that.

    Once it was clear throughout development, and upon release that Void Elves were not going to be our High Elves. We ceased making Void Elf threads because we don't give a fuck about them anymore and began asking for what we truly wanted, High Elves as an Allied Race.

    It was believed through the Unofficial VE threads that we were not being clear enough. So we pivoted from VEs and made those actual High Elf Discussion threads from then on.

    Thus very soon after, all those "Void Elf Discussions" died out because all the major proponents of those threads didn't care about Void Elves in the first place, we wanted to be able to play the High Elves we see like Vereesa/Silver Covenant/Highvale/7th Legion etc etc.

    And this is why you don't see anymore threads on "Void Elf Discussions" because every major player in those threads, along with its basic premise, was always to get playable High Elves.

    It started there because when things are in development, people hope that it can change, it doesn't mean everyone who made those threads appreciates Void Elves, again look at the threads. It starts on how controversial they are and criticizes many things about Void Elves.

    Just because it's a "Void Elf Discussion" doesn't mean people were saying they liked Void Elves, the community that made those threads never cared for Void Elves in the first place. Being a former participant of those threads, I definitely have the authority to say this and @DeicideUH can come in and confirm if he wants what the main purpose of those threads were, if you don't believe me.
    So, long story short, you weren't happy about how Void Elves were being implemented, created twelve or thirteen threads agitating for them to be moved closer to the High Elf ideal and when you figured out that wasn't going to happen you switched to the demand for an authentic High Elf.

    In other words, exactly what I said happened. There was a clear movement demanding High Elf type skin tones on Void Elves. And to say that wasn't the motive of many participants is incorrect. You bring up DeicideUH, I recall when Shani Edwards was added to the PTR and he rushed to the forums, breathless and declared victory because he thought she had a more High Elf like skin tone than the six the Void Elves were known to have.

    Only for everyone else to point out he had screenshoted her inside the cabin under a light and that it was actually datamined void elf skin tone.

    It is hard to argue that skin tone is not a major issue when one of the long term pro High Elf commentators made such an issue of it. After all, Void Elves are a type of High Elf. They are playable High Elves on the Alliance. The reason they are unacceptable is not because of their lore origin but because of their skin tone.




    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    Do you know WHY that question was even asked? It was obviously because of the portion of the community that wants playable High Elves. You speak a lot about context, but you're being super ignorant about the biggest ones. What reason other than for High Elf fans would there be to ask such a question, what popular recent movement back then (still now) would even motion an interviewer to ask that question? You will be hard pressed to find multiple threads of people talking about their love of Void Elves, because most people do not give a shit about them. There's not even much that can be talked about because their lore is a dumpster fire (you will find many who say even tho they like Void Elves their lore is shallow/nonexistant) with no substance and so even if people wanted to talk about Void Elves there isn't much to speak on.

    Context, context, context. Please understand yourself before throwing it everywhere. The point of even bringing that up from the interviewer was for the High Elf community, look at as you point out Tenebra who loves Void Elves. They want lighter skin options but not in the context of High Elves at all. This destroys your assumption of the context since the interviewer is already asking about "to get that High Elf fantasy".
    A Void Elf is a type of High Elf and they already express a version of the High Elf fantasy. The traditional High Elf fantasy, vanilla flavour if you will, is represented by the Blood Elves and an integral part of the theme of the Horde. But leaving that aside, you are confusing two separate points.

    One is the motive behind the question, the desire of many within the pro High Elf community to have access to a duplicate of a Horde race within the Alliance and who would accept skin tone customizations on Void Elves as being the realisation of that.

    The second is the question itself, which was about Void Elf customization options and not a High Elf exile allied race.

    Void Elf customization is, as Afrasiabi said, possible. Now the result would still not be a High Elf exile as the pro High Elf community envision it, it would still be a Void Elf. Anyone who has been going on about the lore of the High Elves yet who accepts Void Elves with pale skin tone will prove that it really is about the skin tones of Void Elves.

    At no point was the possibility of an Allied race brought up. This was about using extra customization options on Void Elves to achieve a similar result. You cannot use Afrasiabi's comment....which lets be honest, was extremely brief and more a call for people to behave themselves on the forums than any kind of promise...as evidence that Blizzard is reconsidering their well publicised stance on a High Elf exile Allied race because that was not the issue under discussion.


    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    It's funny how you can't bring yourself to say a simple 'yes.' All I wanted to know was whether you thought Alex's comments were to the High Elf community or not. Based on your post right above here, I can squarely see that 'yes' you do agree it was aimed at the community wanting High Elves. That's all I wanted to know, thanks.
    A simple yes shorn of context to repurpose to a narrative of your choosing. But if you want a yes or no answer without context or complexity, then I can oblige you.

    No, he was not talking to the pro High Elf community. He was speaking to Void Elf players, on whose behalf the question was asked because they would be the ones getting the customization.

  4. #12224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    it is both, this guy is from the magistere's terrace dungeon, he and other wretched are sucking fel magic from the fel crystals

    regardless demon blood is literally felblood, fel magic, showing the difference of feeding on fel energy
    Felblood Elves are made through the process of drinking Felblood from Demons, basically mainlining Demonic essence directly. They draw power from the Fel crystals you see around Magister's Terrace and Sunwell Plateau - in the case of Selin Fireheart, he draws in power from the Fel crystals to give him his ability to emit a Fel Nova for a time before his internal mana drains away. An influx of Fel doesn't make them demons, though; that's down specifically to drinking the Felblood from the Terrorfiends you see at the Throne of Kil'jaeden. An influx of Fel power alone would probably just produce Fel Wretched, like the kind you see scattered about Quel'Danas.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  5. #12225
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    he is in the terrace sucking fel magic from the crystals, he sucked too much and became that way, the others could not control and became wretched

    there are others in outland who became felblood by sucking fel energy from the corrupted Terrorguards(not drinking his blood), the point is demon blood is fel blood aka fel magic.

    by the wiki those are the stages of the elves who play with fel:
    https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/wowpe...lood_elves.png

    thats a large variety prob having to do with the amount of fel consumed.
    For as much as you criticize the pro-high elf community as using "headcanon", don't you think it's a bit hypocritical of you to engage in the same "headcanon" you denounce so much?

    It's stated in the wiki: "The felblood elves are a group of Kael'thas Sunstrider's most loyal followers, who were rewarded by Kil'jaeden with the gift of being allowed to gorge themselves on demonic blood for days for remaining in Outland, even as many of his blood elves retreated through the Dark Portal."

    Information that was likely taken from this quest: "When Kael's forces retreated through that portal, his most loyal lackeys were rewarded with an abominable gift. They stayed behind and gorged themselves on the blood of demons for days."

    At no point it's said that draining those crystals is what turned them into "felblood elves", but we do have information of them turning into felblood elves by consuming demon blood.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Felblood Elves are made through the process of drinking Felblood from Demons, basically mainlining Demonic essence directly. They draw power from the Fel crystals you see around Magister's Terrace and Sunwell Plateau - in the case of Selin Fireheart, he draws in power from the Fel crystals to give him his ability to emit a Fel Nova for a time before his internal mana drains away. An influx of Fel doesn't make them demons, though; that's down specifically to drinking the Felblood from the Terrorfiends you see at the Throne of Kil'jaeden. An influx of Fel power alone would probably just produce Fel Wretched, like the kind you see scattered about Quel'Danas.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    For as much as you criticize the pro-high elf community as using "headcanon", don't you think it's a bit hypocritical of you to engage in the same "headcanon" you denounce so much?

    It's stated in the wiki: "The felblood elves are a group of Kael'thas Sunstrider's most loyal followers, who were rewarded by Kil'jaeden with the gift of being allowed to gorge themselves on demonic blood for days for remaining in Outland, even as many of his blood elves retreated through the Dark Portal."

    Information that was likely taken from this quest: "When Kael's forces retreated through that portal, his most loyal lackeys were rewarded with an abominable gift. They stayed behind and gorged themselves on the blood of demons for days."

    At no point it's said that draining those crystals is what turned them into "felblood elves", but we do have information of them turning into felblood elves by consuming demon blood.
    demon blood is fel energy, its not something different

    in the same link of felblood elves
    Felblood Initiates remain behind at the Throne of Kil'jaeden in the Hellfire Peninsula where they feast on siphoned fel energy from Suspended Terrorguards,
    Felblood (or fel blood) is a term that refers to the blood of demons.
    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Felblood

    the orcs in draenor who drink fel energy int he hellfire citadel became chaos orcs with spikes and red as well.
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2019-10-07 at 03:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    demon blood is fel energy, its not something different

    in the same link of felblood elves


    Felblood (or fel blood) is a term that refers to the blood of demons.
    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Felblood

    the orc sin draenor who drink fel energy int he hellfire citadel became chaos orcs with spikes and red as well.
    Not really, no. While the blood and flesh of Demons does indeed contain potent Fel energy, it's effects on entities are much different and more pronounced than just consuming or using Fel energy alone. Take for instance the various transformations of Elves as concerns Fel substances: overdosing on Fel energy turns High and Blood Elves into Wretched, consuming Felblood turns them into Felblood Elves who are Elves with demonic traits, whereas consuming the flesh and soul of a Demon creates Demon Hunters - who are akin to Felblood Elves yet with even more pronounced capabilities including the ability to temporarily become fully Demonic for brief periods of time.

    All of these substances don't have the same results, therefore they're not the same substances at all, really. Chaos Orcs specifically are created by imbibing the Blood of Magtheridon (which is why the Illidari are holding him captive in Hellfire Citadel), not by simple exposure or consumption of Fel energies. If that were the case then Magtheridon wouldn't be needed at all, as Fel energy is abundant in Outland.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    So, long story short, you weren't happy about how Void Elves were being implemented, created twelve or thirteen threads agitating for them to be moved closer to the High Elf ideal and when you figured out that wasn't going to happen you switched to the demand for an authentic High Elf.

    In other words, exactly what I said happened.
    No, you try to paint it as if the Void Elf discussions were made because people were cool with Void Elves and only wanted skin tones. The difference I am pointing out is that it was never about Void Elves at all , despite those being included in the title of those threads.

    Because at the time, we were under the assumption we were being clear enough about what we wanted. When Void Elves were released, it was clear that the feedback for a sort of compromise of customization for High Elves didn't have enough clarity, thus bringing out High Elf threads.

    Also it's not "agitating" nice way about being passive aggressive. Old forum threads had a cap on posts. Thus obviously if you want to continue the conversation you make another thread - this is logical duh. It's funny that the High Elf discussions are the ones getting capped, and if you take the time to look through them you'd see it's not just consisting of simple 'bump posts' but posts such as the ones like this thread. People just engage well with the High Elf topic, regardless of which side they're on. People who wanna play em discuss their possibilities, people who are against them can't help but take a moment to shit on the idea.

    Now that we have a much larger limit for the new forum threads, there are less of them. Though I see those threads are dealing with the automated locking system now, rather than capped posts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    SNIP because regurgitation of previously said things numerous times before.

    At no point was the possibility of an Allied race brought up. This was about using extra customization options on Void Elves to achieve a similar result. You cannot use Afrasiabi's comment....which lets be honest, was extremely brief and more a call for people to behave themselves on the forums than any kind of promise...as evidence that Blizzard is reconsidering their well publicised stance on a High Elf exile Allied race because that was not the issue under discussion.
    You keep missing the point. Afrasiabi didn't have to talk specifically about it as an Allied Race. His acknowledgement of those wanting High Elves is all that is being pointed out.

    It does not matter that "High Elf allied race" was not specifically stated. All that matters was a comment to the High Elf community of acknowledgement and to keep persevering.
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    A simple yes shorn of context to repurpose to a narrative of your choosing. But if you want a yes or no answer without context or complexity, then I can oblige you.

    No, he was not talking to the pro High Elf community. He was speaking to Void Elf players, on whose behalf the question was asked because they would be the ones getting the customization.
    It is very much a simple yes or no, that would only garner a short explanation, it's not that complex at all. You give such an answer right there in the latter half here.

    And then why did you say "it's an appeal for decorum on a topic that likely drives the CMs to despair." if you think he's speaking to Void Elf players? Please show me where CMs are driven to despair over Void Elf players.

  9. #12229
    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    I'll leave that up to the people who run this forum. Me and Aldo are having a nice chat regarding some of the arguments people put forth specifically in this discussion.
    I like how you make absolutely no attempt to deny the behavior I pointed out. Of course, what is good for the goose is good for the gander...
    So I suppose I'll passively speak ill of you and you'll have to follow the beliefs you speak.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Not really, no. While the blood and flesh of Demons does indeed contain potent Fel energy, it's effects on entities are much different and more pronounced than just consuming or using Fel energy alone. Take for instance the various transformations of Elves as concerns Fel substances: overdosing on Fel energy turns High and Blood Elves into Wretched, consuming Felblood turns them into Felblood Elves who are Elves with demonic traits, whereas consuming the flesh and soul of a Demon creates Demon Hunters - who are akin to Felblood Elves yet with even more pronounced capabilities including the ability to temporarily become fully Demonic for brief periods of time.

    All of these substances don't have the same results, therefore they're not the same substances at all, really. Chaos Orcs specifically are created by imbibing the Blood of Magtheridon (which is why the Illidari are holding him captive in Hellfire Citadel), not by simple exposure or consumption of Fel energies. If that were the case then Magtheridon wouldn't be needed at all, as Fel energy is abundant in Outland.
    What of the felblood elves in Outland in the throne of kil'jaeden area? Their different appearance is stated to be the result of copious amounts of draining demons. There are also a few others in which draining fel energy in massive amounts give way to demonic like appearances. Of course, I would need to check in a bit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    All of these substances don't have the same results, therefore they're not the same substances at all, really. Chaos Orcs specifically are created by imbibing the Blood of Magtheridon (which is why the Illidari are holding him captive in Hellfire Citadel), not by simple exposure or consumption of Fel energies. If that were the case then Magtheridon wouldn't be needed at all, as Fel energy is abundant in Outland.
    Not only that, but clearly we can see that even those "where they feast on siphoned fel energy from Suspended Terrorguards" don't look anything like the Blood Elves despite not consuming demon blood.



    So it's quite clear there is a difference between what Blood Elves are doing to have gotten their Fel eyes and what these other examples that Syegfred brings up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Not really, no. While the blood and flesh of Demons does indeed contain potent Fel energy, it's effects on entities are much different and more pronounced than just consuming or using Fel energy alone. Take for instance the various transformations of Elves as concerns Fel substances: overdosing on Fel energy turns High and Blood Elves into Wretched, consuming Felblood turns them into Felblood Elves who are Elves with demonic traits, whereas consuming the flesh and soul of a Demon creates Demon Hunters - who are akin to Felblood Elves yet with even more pronounced capabilities including the ability to temporarily become fully Demonic for brief periods of time.
    because the potency of the fel in the demon blood, not because is something different, is something who just corroboted to my point that different levels of fel energy consumed give different changes into you.

    All of these substances don't have the same results, therefore they're not the same substances at all, really. Chaos Orcs specifically are created by imbibing the Blood of Magtheridon (which is why the Illidari are holding him captive in Hellfire Citadel), not by simple exposure or consumption of Fel energies. If that were the case then Magtheridon wouldn't be needed at all, as Fel energy is abundant in Outland.
    the ones in hellfire of Draenor, when gul'dan corrupt the citadel there is lots of fel pounds in the zone include inside the citadel, in the raid the orcs drank those they became chaos orcs as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Broflake View Post
    I like how you make absolutely no attempt to deny the behavior I pointed out. Of course, what is good for the goose is good for the gander...
    So I suppose I'll passively speak ill of you and you'll have to follow the beliefs you speak.
    Don't have to deny doing what was never done. Again, people are passive aggressive on both sides. I just recently pointed out Obelisk's right on this page.

    It's a thing that happens fairly commonly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    So it's quite clear there is a difference between what Blood Elves are doing to have gotten their Fel eyes and what these other examples that Syegfred brings up.
    is what im talking about different levels of corruption, different levels of contact/consume of the fel energy, the more you have - the more concentrate the source like the demon blood aka felblood - you will have "worse" characteristics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Broflake View Post
    What of the felblood elves in Outland in the throne of kil'jaeden area? Their different appearance is stated to be the result of copious amounts of draining demons. There are also a few others in which draining fel energy in massive amounts give way to demonic like appearances. Of course, I would need to check in a bit.
    Felblood Elves specifically are defined as "Kael'thas Sunstrider's most loyal followers, who were rewarded by Kil'jaeden with the gift of being allowed to gorge themselves on demonic blood for days." The demonic blood, or Felblood, is what caused their mutation into Felblood Elves - they're draining Fel power from the captured Terrorfiends to further empower themselves (e.g. becoming elite mobs). There's a quest from IQD where the PC interrupts this feeding process by siphoning the energy away and de-powering them allowing them to be killed, also turning them into Fel Wretched in the process. The same process is used to make Demon Hunters, except they consume demonic flesh instead of demon blood and also apparently a portion of a demon's soul which, if successful, is grafted into their own and gives them greater power.

    For the Felblood Elves it appears continual consumption of Fel energy is needed after the transformation, otherwise they revert into Wretched, which explains Selin's crazed state in Magister's Terrace (as well as the number of Fel Wretched in his vicinity). The Demon Hunter conversion process is much more stable and longer-term, would seem; with noteworthy exceptions like Mannethrel Darkstar's instability.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    is what im talking about different levels of corruption, different levels of contact/consume of the fel energy, the more you have - the more concentrate the source like the demon blood aka felblood - you will have "worse" characteristics.
    You're confusing me. What I'm saying there is that Aucald is right in that those different methods of what they're doing leads to the differences in appearances.

    What you're trying to say is "it's the level of exposure". Though I haven't really paid attention to the convo between you two. So I don't really understand that well what's being argued.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    because the potency of the fel in the demon blood, not because is something different, is something who just corroboted to my point that different levels of fel energy consumed give different changes into you.
    It would seem to be more than just potency, though; otherwise you'd end up with Wretched in every case - which is the result of overexposure to both Fel and Arcane energies if you're a Blood Elf. Also doesn't account for the various hybrids I detailed earlier.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    the ones in hellfire of Draenor, when gul'dan corrupt the citadel there is lots of fel pounds in the zone include inside the citadel, in the raid the orcs drank those they became chaos orcs as well.
    I am not sure what you're referring to here. Chaos Orcs have been created in two known instances - the first was imbibing the Blood of Magtheridon, and the second is a second helping of Mannoroth's Blood (as occurred in WC3 with Grom Hellscream and his Warsong). Both times it was specifically the blood of a Pitlord that brought about the mutation. Gul'dan himself was steeped in Fel at all times, the greatest mortal Warlock known, but he never became a Chaos Orc.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  17. #12237
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    demon blood is fel energy, its not something different

    in the same link of felblood elves


    Felblood (or fel blood) is a term that refers to the blood of demons.
    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Felblood
    Yes, they're there siphoning the energy from those crystals, but at no point it's stated that those are what caused the transformation. We know that when a thalassian elf overindulges in mana consumption, they turn into Wretched, but they're not turning, which indicates they're draining it "in moderation".

    Directly consuming fel blood or fel flesh, though, does create mutations. See: demon hunters.

    the orcs in draenor who drink fel energy int he hellfire citadel became chaos orcs with spikes and red as well.
    They literally keep Mag'theridon chained in there, and the reason why is because Illidan is using his blood to make new fel orcs. He constantly taunts the fel orcs about consuming his blood. These you can hear while doing the Blood Furnace dungeon instance:

    • Away, you mindless parasites! My blood is my own!
    • Vermin! Leeches! Take my blood and choke on it!
    My blood will be the end of you!

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    You're confusing me. What I'm saying there is that Aucald is right in that those different methods of what they're doing leads to the differences in appearances.

    What you're trying to say is "it's the level of exposure". Though I haven't really paid attention to the convo between you two. So I don't really understand that well what's being argued.
    lv of exposure would be the same in the subject here, since by drinking you are suffering more the effects than just exposure.

    What im saying is their characteristics would be different by the lv of exposure/fel consume, if you have more, you will have more or significant differences, this is showed by other races as well

    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    It would seem to be more than just potency, though; otherwise you'd end up with Wretched in every case - which is the result of overexposure to both Fel and Arcane energies if you're a Blood Elf. Also doesn't account for the various hybrids I detailed earlier.
    they would not end up wretched if they become demons, or if they have enough energy to keep up

    demon blood is just a concentrate amount of fel energy.

    I am not sure what you're referring to here. Chaos Orcs have been created in two known instances - the first was imbibing the Blood of Magtheridon, and the second is a second helping of Mannoroth's Blood (as occurred in WC3 with Grom Hellscream and his Warsong). Both times it was specifically the blood of a Pitlord that brought about the mutation. Gul'dan himself was steeped in Fel at all times, the greatest mortal Warlock known, but he never became a Chaos Orc.
    Maybe i am confusing the typo with fel orcs, cause looks the same thing to me, but the fel orcs in outland and in draenor is what im referring.

    the orcs have the lv of corruption based on the amount of fel energy they absorb/drink

    brown - > green
    - > green with burning red eyes -> red orcs(the chaos ones) - > fel orcs bulky/big with spikes and horns

    those in outland drank the maghteridon blood to become fel orcs, those in Draenor just drank fel from the pounds

    they archive the same lv by drinking fel energy, the blood of manoroth/magtheridon apparently just made the orcs bond to then by a curse

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Yes, they're there siphoning the energy from those crystals, but at no point it's stated that those are what caused the transformation. We know that when a thalassian elf overindulges in mana consumption, they turn into Wretched, but they're not turning, which indicates they're draining it "in moderation".

    Directly consuming fel blood or fel flesh, though, does create mutations. See: demon hunters.
    direct consume of fel energy also does that, and once again fel blood is fel energy


    They literally keep Mag'theridon chained in there, and the reason why is because Illidan is using his blood to make new fel orcs. He constantly taunts the fel orcs about consuming his blood. These you can hear while doing the Blood Furnace dungeon instance:
    im talking about draenor, not outland, this one:



    he just drank the fel energies around the citadel/tanaan, and became a fel orc like the ones who drink the maghteridon blood, meaning, demon blood/fel blood is fel energy

  19. #12239
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    direct consume of fel energy also does that, and once again fel blood is fel energy
    And you insist on this despite us having in-canon information about orcs and blood elves drinking actual demon blood? The ones in Outland drank demon blood. The ones in AU Draenor drank demon blood. The felblood elves drank demon blood. It's stated in the lore.

    im talking about draenor, not outland, this one:

    https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/wowpe...sworn_Hulk.jpg

    he just drank the fel energies around the citadel/tanaan, and became a fel orc like the ones who drink the maghteridon blood, meaning, demon blood/fel blood is fel energy
    You mean the same Hellfire Citadel and Tanaan that is riddled with green, glowing felblood? The felsworn, who are orcs who drank the demon's blood offered by Gul'dan? Those Felsworn?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    And you insist on this despite us having in-canon information about orcs and blood elves drinking actual demon blood? The ones in Outland drank demon blood. The ones in AU Draenor drank demon blood. The felblood elves drank demon blood. It's stated in the lore
    the lore is fel blood is fel energy
    they are not different things

    You mean the same Hellfire Citadel and Tanaan that is riddled with green, glowing felblood? The felsworn, who are orcs who drank the demon's blood offered by Gul'dan? Those Felsworn?
    i doubt a the dead bones of manoroth would be able to infuse the entire tanaan with demon blood.

    This is gul'dan dropping liquid fel energy(at 0.37) into tanaan:


    this is the one the orcs there drank to become the red fel ones, its the same appearance of the blood he give to kill'rog, because demon blood is fel energy.

    only if you tell me that those fel pounds are demon blood( who is the same as fel energy anyway) cause those liquid fel is everywhere in Legion, from Suramar to Argus.
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2019-10-07 at 04:59 PM.

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