Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[DeicideUH]

Which isn't a mature answer, just a reflection of your opinion on Void Elves. Void Elves are very much a compromise. You didn't like the compromise, but the data suggests Void Elves are the most popular allied race and they are even the fourth most played race in the Alliance. By every metric that actually matters, Void Elves are a success for Blizzard. People on a forum being upset isn't a real metric.

They may be popular, but are still shit. Quality is not measured by popularity. They are just like those terrible Michael Bay Transformers movies that grossed millions until the franchise was left empty and dry, and now no one cares about Transformers movies anymore.

[The Silver Covenant]

They may be popular, but are still shit. Quality is not measured by popularity. They are just like those terrible Michael Bay Transformers movies that grossed millions until the franchise was left empty and dry, and now no one cares about Transformers movies anymore.

Spot on. Void Elves are popular because they're all we've been given, not because they're widely appreciated. If Blizzard actually wanted to compromise on the issue, they'd provide a skin tone that's super pale like Alleria's. And, hey, maybe we'll get that after 8.3 as Alleria succumbs (and is subsequently cleansed of) the Void. Can't have an overtly evil race in the Alliance.

[Trekkie]

Just for the record, I still want High Elves for the Alliance, no matter how long Blizzard goes without giving them to us, no matter how many races they add to the game, no matter how many elf variants they come up with, I still want those blue-eyed High Elves on the Alliance side.

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Spot on. Void Elves are popular because they're all we've been given, not because they're widely appreciated. If Blizzard actually wanted to compromise on the issue, they'd provide a skin tone that's super pale like Alleria's. And, hey, maybe we'll get that after 8.3 as Alleria succumbs (and is subsequently cleansed of) the Void. Can't have an overtly evil race in the Alliance.

Void Elves look cool, I appreciate their look. They look like Goth Elves. But they are not High Elves.

[Aldo Hawk]

Void Elves look cool, I appreciate their look. They look like Goth Elves. But they are not High Elves.

Yes dude they are dude why don't you see dude?

They are exactly what you wanted dude.

[Obelisk Kai]

They may be popular, but are still shit. Quality is not measured by popularity. They are just like those terrible Michael Bay Transformers movies that grossed millions until the franchise was left empty and dry, and now no one cares about Transformers movies anymore.

By what standard are they shit? How are they shit?

Void Elves are not shit by a reasonable standard, they are a race whose purpose is to be the thalassian elves of the Alliance and that is a role they easily fulfil by simply existing. Void Elves will never not be shit when set against the standard you have set for them, the Void/High Elves in your head.

At some point, maybe, the Void Elves will get a focus in the storyline. And if they don't, then they don't. Most of the playable options within the game, and I have to point out that in 8.3 there will be TWENTY THREE playable races in the game, don't. That does not mean they are shit. That simply means the story isn't about them.

[Varodoc]

That's the frightening part, in all the datamining done for 8.3 there's nothing on Void Elves so far. Like fingers crossed it's not just yet in, but it's a bad omen that at best is not a priority. So far VE's and Alleria are only part of the horrific visions, so all we know is that yep, VE's are likely to betray us, as we have known since the beginning.

Also SO excited about Vulpera!! I have saved a spot for a hunter since launch AHHHHH!

That's a big leap in logic. There are also a lot of corrupted humans in the Vision... I guess Anduin is about to become a villain then.

Also, the void elves in the Vision didn't betray the Alliance, they were corrupted by N'Zoth. They didn't do it willingly. When you kill Corrupted Alleria, she is freed from her corruption and realizes what she's done. You're basically giving them freedom from N'Zoth's control. And again, it's the same thing on the Horde side. Thrall succumbs to the whispers and you have to put him down and free him from his torment.

These Visions don't mean anything.

[DeicideUH]

By what standard are they shit? How are they shit?

I've answered this a hundred times already.I don't expect you to understand on 101st.

Void Elves are not shit by a reasonable standard, they are a race whose purpose is to be the thalassian elves of the Alliance and that is a role they easily fulfil by simply existing.

And you think that's a race whose sole purpose is to fill a slot isn't shit?

Void Elves will never not be shit when set against the standard you have set for them, the Void/High Elves in your head.

If the standard is shit, they are shit. It's simple.

At some point, maybe, the Void Elves will get a focus in the storyline.

"Maybe."

It's been almost two years since their debut. They are the only allied race that didn't have a proper introduction. They are far behind even the almost-souless lightforged.

And if they don't, then they don't. Most of the playable options within the game, and I have to point out that in 8.3 there will be TWENTY THREE playable races in the game, don't. That does not mean they are shit. That simply means the story isn't about them.

23 playable races.

Only one of them lacked seeding. Only one of them was relegated to a five-minute rushed introduction. They are nothing more than a cosmetic option. They are trash.

[Varodoc]

Only one of them lacked seeding.

Gnomes and draenei say "hi". All the gnomes had before WoW was one line in the WC2 (or was it WC3?) manual explaining why they never appeared in that RTS game. The draenei were an even worse asspull than the void elves and their introduction basically retconned Sargeras' backstory.

Also, the idea of blood elves messing with the void is an old one, dating back to High Astromancer Solarian in TBC, a blood elf who could turn into a voidwalker.

[Aldo Hawk]

Also, the idea of blood elves messing with the void is an old one, dating back to High Astromancer Solarian in TBC, a blood elf who could turn into a voidwalker.

That was a Kael'thas follower.

But anyways, I don't understand why they decided that it was a good idea to make Blood elves exile void researchers in the first place.

Void elves should have been Horde in my opinion.

[Varodoc]

That was a Kael'thas follower.

But anyways, I don't understand why they decided that it was a good idea to make Blood elves exile void researchers in the first place.

Void elves should have been Horde in my opinion.

I'm not talking about Umbric's faction specifically, just the general concept of blood elves going too far with the void. It's an old concept that Blizzard was already playing with back in TBC. This is a case of "good concept, poor execution". The concept of void elves is very good, the execution was lacking though. Umbric should have been introduced earlier (it would have been perfect in WoD, this way they could tie his story with Ner'zhul's).

Originally I thought void elves were part of Alleria's expedition and were stranded with her in the Twisting Nether. But now I realize the concept Blizzard went for is better. The void elves being former blood elves gives them more opportunities for rivalry with the Horde, as opposed to just being an otherwordly faction who followed Alleria long ago.

The void elves being in the Alliance gives this faction a more interesting side. Worgen were suppsed to be the "black sheep" of the Alliance but failed miserably. I think the void elves will be more effective as the grey side of the Alliance. The recent Horrific Vision of Stormwind, while just being an alternate reality, offers a good scenario of what would happen if Alleria went mad -- void elves have the potential to become a devastating threat to the world of Azeroth, and that's why they make things more interesting in the Alliance, which is generally made up of lawful good (or should I say, lawful stupid) races.

[DeicideUH]

Gnomes and draenei say "hi". All the gnomes had before WoW was one line in the WC2 (or was it WC3?) manual explaining why they never appeared in that RTS game. The draenei were an even worse asspull than the void elves and their introduction basically retconned Sargeras' backstory.

False and false.

Gnomes date back to Warcraft 2, they had the Flying Machine unit in it and the race was described in the Manual.

Draenei worse asspull than void elves? No, they weren't.

Draenei were first mentioned also in the Warcraft 2 manual, in Gul'dan's tale about the indiginous people from draenor that was massacrated by the orcs. They also appeared in Warcraft 3 and Vanilla. Yes, the TBC version was a horrid retcon, but at least they got two starting zones plus a short story describing how they became shaman. And were important during their own expansion as well. Still, draenei were one of the worst additions and heavily criticized for the retcons that were made for them. People also complained how they were almost forgotten by Blizzard until WoD fleshed them out and they got a big role in Legion.

Void elves managed to outdo the draenei in terms of bad storytelling and being forgotten after their debut. Draenei at least were based on a previously unexplored but referenced element of the setting, and they got a few stories about them before they were left in limbo.

Also, the idea of blood elves messing with the void is an old one, dating back to High Astromancer Solarian in TBC, a blood elf who could turn into a voidwalker.

That does not make a race. It didn't even have anything to do with the void elves at all. Blood elf shadow priests existed since the race's debut in WoW, so what? A character learning to use magic that people have been using for a long time is not seeding. Or else, what's next? Light Humans? Life Elves? Fel gnomes?

Void elves are a last-minute thought made to fill up a slot. The fact that we got an entire expansion without them doing anything of importance is very evident now.

"Uh, but they appear here and there."
"Uh, but they summon a void dinosaur in that one repeatable quest that has no value in the overall plot."
"Uh, but they failed in their first and only mission."

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Let me add one single argument: Brewfest. We got allied race updates in it this year.

Horde-side, a nightborne vintner was added. It instantly clicked, because we actually saw their vineyards in Suramar, and arcwine was a huge center point in their story and their culture. After the undoing of the Nightwell, you get a vintner commenting on making new forms of wines in their starting area. The brewfest addition was natural. You even ask why there's only one NPC there in a small stand, they should have gotten more space and more attention.

Void elves? Also a vintner. Out of nowhere. They don't even have a settlement, or even a single house, anywhere. Where do they make wine? How do they make it? And they put VOID energy in their wine??? What happened to "void is not a toy" speech Umbric gave to Shandris? That vintner in Brewfest is completely devoid of any lore around it, it's just there to fill up a slot. It's a souless imitation of the nightborne vintner.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

That's a big leap in logic. There are also a lot of corrupted humans in the Vision... I guess Anduin is about to become a villain then.

Also, the void elves in the Vision didn't betray the Alliance, they were corrupted by N'Zoth. They didn't do it willingly. When you kill Corrupted Alleria, she is freed from her corruption and realizes what she's done. You're basically giving them freedom from N'Zoth's control. And again, it's the same thing on the Horde side. Thrall succumbs to the whispers and you have to put him down and free him from his torment.

These Visions don't mean anything.

You are completely missing my point.

I'm saying that one of the few things we knew about Void Elves is the whole "They dabble in dark magics, we should be wary." And what we got is that happening on vision.

The point is that it just repeats a previously stated information but since it's just a vision is not even real so it doesn't even count as development. Is just "Void Elves are in danger of giving in to the void" again, but in a vision.

Instead of ACTUALLY have void elves participating in reality during the events. That's what sucks, that they are getting no development. Just a vision that only shows something not real that has been a fear from the beginning.

[Varodoc]

I'm saying that one of the few things we knew about Void Elves is the whole "They dabble in dark magics, we should be wary." And what we got is that happening on vision.

Yes. Void elves do succumb to the whispers in that alternate reality, just like literally any other citizen of Stormwind and Orgrimmar.

Who cares if the void elves are getting no lore development in BfA. Maybe you should lower your expectations when we have races who did not get any development for actual decades (gnomes did jackshit from Cataclysm to BfA, draenei did jackshit from Wrath of the Lich King to WoD).

From a certain point of view, it's a good thing that the void elves are not getting any development from those hacks at Blizzard.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Gnomes and draenei say "hi". All the gnomes had before WoW was one line in the WC2 (or was it WC3?) manual explaining why they never appeared in that RTS game. The draenei were an even worse asspull than the void elves and their introduction basically retconned Sargeras' backstory.

Yet both groups had whole areas related to setting them up as a group and later narrative appearances through quests; that's THE issue with Void Elves; their whole set up as a group is their unlock quest chain.

Also, the idea of blood elves messing with the void is an old one, dating back to High Astromancer Solarian in TBC, a blood elf who could turn into a voidwalker.

Regardless of any set up of Void + Elves, the problem is their lack of set up as A GROUP. It was just such a senseless mistake to not making VE's part of the Alleria narrative through Argus. The thematic set up exists even if it was Alleria's set up that did most of the heavy lifting with Solarian being little more than a seed.

But the utter fail of the Void Elves is their totally out-of-nowhere appareance as a group, with no build up or set up. It's appalling that it has been 2 years and little has been done to correct this.

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Yes. Void elves do succumb to the whispers in that alternate reality, just like literally any other citizen of Stormwind and Orgrimmar.

Which is the point of my complaint since this is no new development and sadly the only relevance they'll get in this VOID related patch.

Who cares if the void elves are getting no lore development in BfA. Maybe you should lower your expectations when we have races who did not get any development for actual decades (gnomes did jackshit from Cataclysm to BfA, draenei did jackshit from Wrath of the Lich King to WoD).

From a certain point of view, it's a good thing that the void elves are not getting any development from those hacks at Blizzard.

Hard disagree; again every other race had zones dedicated to their introduction as well as quests, Void Elves did not thus NEEDED the attention, and every day it doesn't happens it's more of a wasted Allied Race.

You can't say no development is better because you might not like the development they could get. It's just silly to defend the fact they are empty husks.

[Varodoc]

Yet both groups had whole areas related to setting them up as a group and later narrative appearances through quests; that's THE issue with Void Elves; their whole set up as a group is their unlock quest chain.


Regardless of any set up of Void + Elves, the problem is their lack of set up as A GROUP. It was just such a senseless mistake to not making VE's part of the Alleria narrative through Argus. The thematic set up exists even if it was Alleria's set up that did most of the heavy lifting with Solarian being little more than a seed.

But the utter fail of the Void Elves is their totally out-of-nowhere appareance as a group, with no build up or set up. It's appalling that it has been 2 years and little has been done to correct this.

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Which is the point of my complaint since this is no new development and sadly the only relevance they'll get in this VOID related patch.



Hard disagree; again every other race had zones dedicated to their introduction as well as quests, Void Elves did not thus NEEDED the attention, and every day it doesn't happens it's more of a wasted Allied Race.

You can't say no development is better because you might not like the development they could get. It's just silly to defend the fact they are empty husks.

"Utter fail". From a backstory perspective, maybe. Everything else -- void elves are the most played allied race for a reason.

Also, void elves have a zone and quests dedicated to their introduction. How do you think you unlock them?

I don't care if they are empty husks because I gave up on those hacks long ago. I just enjoy the ride and try not to think too much about it. Warcraft stopped being serious long ago, when they made an entire expansion out of an April's Fools joke.

[Guildenstern]

You know I was opposed to having High Elves, but if it means Horde gets San'layn ("Dead" elves) I'll be all for it. Can't see reason not to add more elves - they're clearly popular and look at these threads, thousands of replies and counting - - crazy!

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

"Utter fail". From a backstory perspective, maybe. Everything else -- void elves are the most played allied race for a reason.

And lore is my concern here. As much every other AR is less popular than VE's, their lore is better across the board.

Also, void elves have a zone and quests dedicated to their introduction. How do you think you unlock them?

We unlocked them by following Alleria's journey -which I loved- but is completely unrelated of Umbric's group. They are literally a group that completely unrelated started studying the void and Alleria has to save; all of it we only learn through the unlock chain quest.

I don't care if they are empty husks because I gave up on those hacks long ago. I just enjoy the ride and try not to think too much about it. Warcraft stopped being serious long ago, when they made an entire expansion out of an April's Fools joke.

Then why spend time arguing with people that are concerned about the lore? It just seems like incompatible appeals and interests.

[Varodoc]

And lore is my concern here. As much every other AR is less popular than VE's, their lore is better across the board.

It's not better, that's subjective. They have a bigger lore, it doesn't mean it's better.

We unlocked them by following Alleria's journey -which I loved- but is completely unrelated of Umbric's group. They are literally a group that completely unrelated started studying the void and Alleria has to save; all of it we only learn through the unlock chain quest.

No. We unlocked them by teaming up with Umbric and his group and delving into Telogrus Rift -- the void elves' base of operations.

Then why spend time arguing with people that are concerned about the lore? It just seems like incompatible appeals and interests.

That's not the point. I literally said I enjoy the lore. Why? Because I don't take it seriously. If it's good lore, nice, if it's bad lore, whatever, it's Warcraft, no big deal. This franchise is littered with terrible lore, if that was enough to make me quit I would have left way before void elves were announced. And that's why I am not so butthurt over their lack of backstory.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

It's not better, that's subjective. They have a bigger lore, it doesn't mean it's better.

Well it's clear that I think the VE's lacking lore sucks, that's the whole point. What is not subjective is the level of content related to the AR, and Void Elves have the least.

No. We unlocked them by teaming up with Umbric and his group and delving into Telogrus Rift -- the void elves' base of operations.

Oh come the hell on; this is disingenuous as hell; are you really gonna compare the unlock quest chain in Telogrus to ACTUAL zones dedicated to the other AR? What is the point of this delusion of yours? Can't you just accept that empirically Void Elves have less content than the other AR, and that for many, subjectively, what they have is bad?

That's not the point. I literally said I enjoy the lore. Why? Because I don't take it seriously. If it's good lore, nice, if it's bad lore, whatever, it's Warcraft, no big deal. This franchise is littered with terrible lore, if that was enough to make me quit I would have left way before void elves were announced. And that's why I am not so butthurt over their lack of backstory.

And again if you are talking with people that take the lore "seriously" -for all that matters but the fact is that's a different way of engaging with entertainment- don't you see why there's a whole different set of parameters for enjoyment? I'm not telling you to not like or enjoy Void Elves, but it is you who are here trying to engage with our lore grievances when you declare you enjoy the lore on a different level.

Enjoy Void Elves, but you don't need to argue with people that have issues with them because they consume entertainment differently than you.

[Varodoc]

Oh come the hell on; this is disingenuous as hell; are you really gonna compare the unlock quest chain in Telogrus to ACTUAL zones dedicated to the other AR?

Do tell me about the actual zones of the lightforged draenei.

Can't you just accept that empirically Void Elves have less content than the other AR, and that for many, subjectively, what they have is bad?

I didn't deny that void elves had less content, I denied that they had no content at all, which is what you said.

Besides, I already aknowledged how the void elves should have been introduced in WoD. Need I repeat that for it to be valid?

And again if you are talking with people that take the lore "seriously" -for all that matters but the fact is that's a different way of engaging with entertainment- don't you see why there's a whole different set of parameters for enjoyment? I'm not telling you to not like or enjoy Void Elves, but it is you who are here trying to engage with our lore grievances when you declare you enjoy the lore on a different level.

I'm not telling you you need to do like I say, I'm telling you why I am not so bothered by the void elves lacking substantial background. The focus is myself, not you.

Enjoy Void Elves, but you don't need to argue with people that have issues with them because they consume entertainment differently than you.

Given how this is a public forum and not your personal blog, I will argue with you if I feel like I disagree with you.