Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[matrix123mko]

Isn't it nice that some blood elves were finally cleansed from the fel-corruption in their eyes? It warms my heart. Perhaps one day every citizen of Silvermoon will finally be cleansed from the fel, but it's a start.

Please, no! I signed in for fel elves, not lightforged Baine lovers.

[DeicideUH]

That you believe you have answered the question a hundred times already misses the point. Your answer is unsatisfactory in that the real crime of the Void Elves is that they aren't the High Elf exiles you are still clearly pining for.

I've answered already, you just ignore the parts you can't reply to. That's your modus operandi.

Just to prove my point, in the last two days I posted thrice explaining the problem. You were visiting and posting in the thread the whole time, and yet solely ignored all of them:

At least mechagnomes had effort. It's not the best race ever, but they got a comic, a (mega)dungeon, a storyline, lots of gossip text explaining their point of view, a zone and a cool city. A minor plus, but in the end all gnomekind unite, and it's a kinda cool point.

Mechagnome lore is almost point by point what void elf lore should be: they are a transformation of an existing race, except that: we know what are the advantages of their state, how they are transformed, and what are their thoughts about it.

We also got to know more than one of them, and they are united with their normal brethren, which means their stories will go on together from now on and we can expect plenty of interactions between gnomes and mechagnomes ahead. These small but essential details are all lacking in void elves, who couldn't get even a short story to flesh them out since their debut.

The thing is: most races get developed mostly in their debut/introduction. That's when you get to know them and familiarize with some faces. Then those faces carry the story forward. That's why it's cool to see Lasan, Mayla or Ebonhorn doing things, as small as they appear to be, because they remind you about everything you experienced in highmountain. Same with Occuleth, Talyssra, Valtrois.

Void elves skipped that fleshing out stage. They have no faces, no customs, no quirks, no side peculiarities, they are just homeless blood elves in blue. They are depthless, directionless and meaningless. Even Umbric, their one and only face, is as shallow as it can get. Compare him to Occuleth, who serves in a similar role, and you can see the chasm in development between them. Occuleth is quirky, charismatic and competent, every time he's on screen, it causes a smile in my face. Plus, he's only one face among many we got to know in Suramar. Umbric is... meh. A plain good guy who seems competent and... that's it.

That vintner, Margaux, had alone more story and personality (and voice acting) than the entire void elf lore. And there was Runas. And Arluin. I felt each of their deaths. I won't care if all void elves die horribly tomorrow, because we never had any chance to empathise with them.

Let me add one single argument: Brewfest. We got allied race updates in it this year.

Horde-side, a nightborne vintner was added. It instantly clicked, because we actually saw their vineyards in Suramar, and arcwine was a huge center point in their story and their culture. After the undoing of the Nightwell, you get a vintner commenting on making new forms of wines in their starting area. The brewfest addition was natural. You even ask why there's only one NPC there in a small stand, they should have gotten more space and more attention.

Void elves? Also a vintner. Out of nowhere. They don't even have a settlement, or even a single house, anywhere. Where do they make wine? How do they make it? And they put VOID energy in their wine??? What happened to "void is not a toy" speech Umbric gave to Shandris? That vintner in Brewfest is completely devoid of any lore around it, it's just there to fill up a slot. It's a souless imitation of the nightborne vintner.

In the context of every other Allied race, Void Elves are fine. After all, what relevance have Lightforged Draenei, Mag'har Orcs and Dark Iron Dwarves had after their introduction beyond appearing on the battlefield?

I frequently point out lightforged draenei are also very lackluster and need more exposure. Funny that the Alliance ended up with two barely developed races...

As for mag'har orcs and dark iron dwarves, the difference is that they have had years of development already. Did you know a certain expansion called WoD, which was entirely about the origins of the Mag'har orcs? Didn't you play Vanilla, Cataclysm, MoP and WoD, through which the dark iron history has evolved from enemies under the rule of Ragnaros to their current state as part of the Alliance?

Void elves have been introduced in a 5-minute scenario between last expansion and the current one, and never developed in either. Unlike all other allied races, whose small appearances are just icing on the cake, void elves lacks the cake.

But because they aren't the High Elves exiles you wanted, you define them as trash. I am afraid that isn't good enough because failing a group just because they aren't what you wanted them to be is, well, petulant.

They fail because they are devoid of depth. I define them as trash because they are trash.

[Varodoc]

Some people need to stop claiming that the void elves failed. They didn't fail jackshit. They were a huge success and are the most played allied race in the game.

[DeicideUH]

You people need to stop saying that the void elves failed. They didn't fail jackshit. They were a huge success and are the most played allied race in the game.

Trash can be popular, you know. Trash food seels a lot. Trash music rises to the top charts frequently. Trash moves can gross millions.

But popularity is no substitute for quality. Quality endures and gets praises. Trash eventually is forgotten. Just like the devs forgot the void elves after their debut. They are so poor in story hooks that Blizzard couldn't think of using them in the big void patch.

[Varodoc]

Trash can be popular, you know. Trash food seels a lot. Trash music rises to the top charts frequently. Trash moves can gross millions.

But popularity is no substitute for quality. Quality endures and gets praises. Trash eventually is forgotten. Just like the devs forgot the void elves after their debut. They are so poor in story hooks that Blizzard couldn't think of using them in the big void patch.

If trash is popular then that trash was successful. Something being successful is independent from its quality. WoD's launch was trash but it was still successful because it brought back millions of players.

Let alone the fact that quality is subjective. For you void elves are trash, for me and many others they are fantastic. It's an unreliable and biased metric to say they were a failure just because for you they are trash.

[DeicideUH]

If trash is popular then that trash was successful.

I'm saying it's trash and pointing out why it's trash.

That many people like it does not make it less trash.

[Varodoc]

I'm saying it's trash and pointing out why it's trash.

That many people like it does not make it less trash.

You're saying it failed. I'm saying it didn't fail. I'm not telling you that you can't think they are trash, because that's a subjective opinion and I don't care about changing your opinion. I'm saying you can't say they failed, because that is not an opinion, they factually did not fail. They are very played and many players (myself included) love them, so at this point you are not sharing your opinion, you are straight-up spreading misinformation, and I will correct you on that.

Let's put it this way. If void elves are a failure, every other allied race is a failure too.

[DeicideUH]

You're saying it failed.

I'm judging the lore, not popularity.
You only bring popularity to the discussion because there's nothing you can argue that prove me wrong about the lore.

[Varodoc]

I'm judging the lore, not popularity.
You only bring popularity to the discussion because there's nothing you can argue that prove me wrong about the lore.

Define what "failing from a lore perspective" means. Because, judging by the amount of people who RP as void elves and are genuinely enticed by their lore, I very much doubt they failed. Failed to do what? Failed to entice people to play them because of their lore? You can't prove that people don't play them because of their lore.

I bring popularity to the discussion because popularity proves they didn't fail. It's simple.

[Aldo Hawk]

It means nothing. I can also point out that many people use them to roleplay as high elves. I'm yet to find any roleplayer, even void elf players, who does not think void elves have been neglected by Blizzard.

Open the account page of this tweet: https://twitter.com/The_Solista/stat...433711104?s=20

Hm... So Void elf players also want High elves? Why?

Oh yeah yeah

[DeicideUH]

Define what "failing from a lore perspective" means.

Their lore is so poor and unexplored that you can't even answer "how do they make more void elves" without having to make a guess. That's the most basic question that went unanswered for 21 months. And that's only one among dozens of questions about them.

Because, judging by the amount of people who RP as void elves and are genuinely enticed by their lore, I very much doubt they failed.

It means nothing. I can also point out that many people use them to roleplay as high elves. I'm yet to find any roleplayer, even void elf players, who does not think void elves have been neglected by Blizzard.

I bring popularity to the discussion because popularity proves they didn't fail. It's simple.

We are discussing lore here since the beginning.

- - - Updated - - -

Ah, I found an old post of mine in the official forums where I discuss storytelling quality:

You talk as if artistic quality was entirely subjective, but it’s simply not. Taste is subjective. You can like a poor story, but it’s still a poor story. There’s reason why even the worst movies and songs have fans.

Narrative structure is very important for the quality of a story. The structure itself can vary, but you can see the difference when you read a poor story and a rich one.

There’s a lot of small rules of how to create an engaging narrative, and void elf introduction just lacks so many of them that I could make a huge essay in this.

For instance, consider this: void elves didn’t merit even their own reputation faction you could quest with and earn the trust as their prerequisites. The reputation used had nothing to do with them, and that alone proves how there was no setup. The requisite is there for purely mechanical purposes, a to-do list that has nothing to do with the narrative.

Second, the story that is used as a prerequisite, Alleria’s story, fails to seed or foreshadow the void elves in any way. That alone is not a sin, but since the race didn’t exist back then, and no narrative tropes were used to build up towards their birth, it means their introduction would require a lot more care in order to have a good structure.

Third, that care never came. Their story is hushed and depthless. You are told the basic things: there’s this elf called Umbric that studies the void, go find him and his followers. But you never delve into them. You never see their story beyond this basic premise, you don’t meet them, don’t talk to them, don’t get to know their outlook on things. Once you find Umbric, he’s put out of comission by the ethereals.

Who are these ethereals? Where they came from? What were they doing there? No Clues, no answer. They were just there.

Then you save the elves, and, yay, they are transformed. Let’s explore what that transformation means? How they cope with it? What advantages and drawbacks it has? No. The void elves pledge themselves to the Alliance without even requiring a moment to think, and you are sent back to Stormwind to report your success. The end.

It’s a by-the-numbers effort that just runs over the bare minimum narrative elements of a introductory story. It never delves in the details, it never stops to tell the tales of these elves, it never tries to make you care about them, sympathize with them.

Like their unlocking requisites, the story presented is just a mechanic, a to-do list with the objective of enabling another race in your character creation menu, instead of fleshing out its lore.

If you wrote a story like that in a contest, you’d have no chance of winning. And that’s objectively bad.

I’ll compare it to that challenge of speed drawing. The more effort and the more technique put into a story, the better it is. Same as drawing:







Void elf story was like a 10-sec drawing.

[Varodoc]

Their lore is so poor and unexplored that you can't even answer "how do they make more void elves" without having to make a guess. That's the most basic question that went unanswered for 21 months. And that's only one among dozens of questions about them.

Not really. It's obvious that you can make more void elves by injecting normal elves with a lot of void. That's literally what happened to Alleria and Umbric and his group.

It means nothing. I can also point out that many people use them to roleplay as high elves. I'm yet to find any roleplayer, even void elf players, who does not think void elves have been neglected by Blizzard.

Except that it does mean a lot. Because if a race had a bad lore, then players wouldn't feel enticed to roleplay as them. You roleplay as a certain race if you think that the background for that race is good enough to give you freedom and potential to roleplay as a good character.

And just like there are many void elf players who think they've been neglected, there are also many draenei, gnome, night elves, or troll players who will tell you the same thing.

And yes, some do roleplay void elves as high elves. Just like many roleplay normal dwarves as wildhammer dwarves. I suppose that means dwarves failed from a lore perspective.

We are discussing lore here since the beginning.

Also, and I already asked you this, define what "failing from a lore perspective" actually means.

Finally, I find it hilarious that you think this is the big void patch. Are you really so naive that you think there won't be a Void Lord expansion? How can someone unironically think that 8.3 is the endgame of the Void...

Open the account page of this tweet: https://twitter.com/The_Solista/stat...433711104?s=20

Hm... So Void elf players also want High elves? Why?

Oh yeah yeah

Wow, good job, two people are A LOT of players.

[Starla]

Some people need to stop claiming that the void elves failed. They didn't fail jackshit. They were a huge success and are the most played allied race in the game.

Helfers cling to Void Elves as a 'failure' despite the fact that they're not, because their existence has threatened the helfer cause.
It's too late for playable alliance high elves now. I'm not happy that the Alliance have a Blood/High Elf look alike race but the deed is done. No going back. Now we go forward. Blood Elves are going to get more eye color options including blue. I'd love to see the few High Elves left on the Alliance come back to rejoin their brothers and sisters in Silvermoon. Now that would be some great storytelling.

[Aldo Hawk]

Not really. It's obvious that you can make more void elves by injecting normal elves with a lot of void. That's literally what happened to Alleria and Umbric and his group.

That is a guess.

Except that it does mean a lot. Because if a race had a bad lore, then players wouldn't feel enticed to roleplay as them. You roleplay as a certain race if you think that the background for that race is good enough to give you freedom and potential to roleplay as a good character.

For this to be a viable argumentation the players overall should know about lore. However, there are players who simply take what is cool for them and don't care about the lore at all.

And just like there are many void elf players who think they've been neglected, there are also many draenei, gnome, night elves, or troll players who will tell you the same thing.

Two wrongs, or in this case, many supposed wrongs, don't make a right.

Also, and I already asked you this, define what "failing from a lore perspective" actually means.

He did, but I am gonna try to tell that in a short way, I expect you to revisit some not so older posts in this thread.

Their lack of structure and growth during the expansion they were added in, even if the plot was seemingly fitting for them, is staggering, I can't still believe nothing of value has been datamined about them for the next patch and I can only wish they end up doing something for them, but even after the whole expansion, they have not been fleshed out and they are just Void Blood elves in the Alliance.

Finally, I find it hilarious that you think this is the big void patch. Are you really so naive that you think there won't be a Void Lord expansion?

It's the biggest void patch we have ever had, in the expansion that introduced Void elves.

The same can be said about you: Are you really so naive that you think there has to be a Void Lord expansion for them to flesh out the Void elves instead of using the theme of the next patch for them to do so?

[Varodoc]

That is a guess.

It's not a guess, lmao. You literally saw how Alleria and Umbric were turned into void elves. They got hit with the face with a lot of void energy. How do you think they are made?

At this point, you might as well just ask how humans are born because we've never actually seen humans giving birth to babies in WoW.

For this to be a viable argumentation the players overall should know about lore. However, there are players who simply take what is cool for them and don't care about the lore at all.

We're talking about roleplayers. If you roleplay, you automatically care about the lore, even if to a very small degree.

Two wrongs, or in this case, many supposed wrongs, don't make a right.

They also mean that void elves are not such a huge deal like you people make it out to be.

He did, but I am gonna try to tell that in a short way, I expect you to revisit some not so older posts in this thread.

He never did though.

Their lack of structure and growth during the expansion they were added in, even if the plot was seemingly fitting for them, is staggering, I can't still believe nothing of value has been datamined about them for the next patch and I can only wish they end up doing something for them, but even after the whole expansion, they have not been fleshed out and they are just Void Blood elves in the Alliance.

Good job, you discovered what a void elf is! It is... you guessed it... a void-infused exile of Quel'Thalas who joined the Alliance.

Void elves played a bigger role in BfA than lightforged draenei and dark irons. The lightforged draenei would have made a lot of sense in 8.3 as well, since they are trained to fight the shadows, but they are nowhere to be seen either. Also, this is nothing new. Orcs and blood elves did nothing in 7.2 when they had every right to participate in the downfall of Kil'jaeden.

It's the biggest void patch we have ever had, in the expansion that introduced Void elves.

We have ever had so far*. And besides, we do know that Alleria is concerned about N'Zoth. While everyone is wasting time with Sylvanas, Alleria is the only one who makes a point that Sylvanas' army would be of great use against N'Zoth.

The same can be said about you: Are you really so naive that you think there has to be a Void Lord expansion for them to flesh out the Void elves instead of using the theme of the next patch for them to do so?

In case you hadn't noticed, there are a lot of things they rushed in this patch. There isn't even a new zone dedicated to Ny'alotha, it's just straight-up a raid, and the only other content of notice happens in an alternate reality. It's not just void elves who are getting shafted, in case you hadn't noticed.

[DeicideUH]

Not really. It's obvious that you can make more void elves by injecting normal elves with a lot of void.

Yup, you made a guess. Your headcanon is not canon, thought. And, besides, you know nothing of the process. How do they test the subject to know if he's ready: How do they select those worthy of the process? How the ritual is done?

You know nothing, because there's nothing.

That's literally what happened to Alleria and Umbric and his group.

No, it wans't. Especially in Alleria's case. And in Umbric's case it demanded some very specific circunstances (the Ethereals, the Cube). At no point in their entire lore it's established how or even if they are creating more void elves beyond the first batch.

And just like there are many void elf players who think they've been neglected, there are also many draenei, gnome, night elves, or troll players who will tell you the same thing.

And yes, some do roleplay void elves as high elves. Just like many roleplay normal dwarves as wildhammer dwarves. I suppose that means dwarves failed from a lore perspective.

You circle around the subject because you can't face the fact that the entirety of void elf lore fits in a 5-minute scenario.

Also, and I already asked you this, define what "failing from a lore perspective" actually means.

I already answered this above. Like Obelisk Kai, you just choose to skip all the answers you don't like.

Finally, I find it hilarious that you think this is the big void patch. Are you really so naive that you think there won't be a Void Lord expansion? How can someone unironically think that 8.3 is the endgame of the Void...

It's the biggest void patch since the franchise started, and in the expansion that introduced void elves. Where are they? Doing nothing, like they did all expansion.

[Varodoc]

Yup, you made a guess. Your headcanon is not canon, thought. And, besides, you know nothing of the process. How do they test the subject to know if he's ready: How do they select those worthy of the process? How the ritual is done?

You know nothing, because there's nothing.

You asked how more void elves are made. I told you how more void elves are made. By putting in them a lot of void energy, which is how literally any other void elf was made. Know you are asking details, at which point you are no longer interested in a basic question.

No, it wans't. Especially in Alleria's case. And in Umbric's case it demanded some very specific circunstances (the Ethereals, the Cube). At no point in their entire lore it's established how or even if they are creating more void elves beyond the first batch.

My dude, did you even watch this cinematic?


There is literally a giant sphere of void going straight for her face. How do you think she transformed into a void elf?

You circle around the subject because you can't face the fact that the entirety of void elf lore

No, I circle around the subject because I'm proving that the void elves are nothing specifically unique in that department.

I already answered this above. Like Obelisk Kai, you just choose to skip all the answers you don't like.

Not really, more like I already debunked whatever answer you gave.

It's the biggest void patch since the franchise started, and in the expansion that introduced void elves. Where are they? Doing nothing, like they did all expansion.

Already proven wrong. If you think the void elves did nothing in BfA, you haven't played the Alliance war campaign of patch 8.0 and 8.1. The lightforged are also doing nothing against N'Zoth despite being weapons of light (you know, the best weapon against the shadows). Also, we already know that Alleria's priority is fighting N'Zoth.

[Aldo Hawk]

It's not a guess, lmao. You literally saw how Alleria and Umbric were turned into void elves. They got hit with the face with a lot of void energy. How do you think they are made?

It is a guess, it's stated that it's not known how that happens. And you are mixing Alleria with the rest, when it has been different. The process was cut right in time and is not known how to repeat it or how the void trap was made or what it did.

At this point, you might as well just ask how humans are born because we've never actually seen humans giving birth to babies in WoW.

OMEGAKEK

We're talking about roleplayers. If you roleplay, you automatically care about the lore, even if to a very small degree.

Every Void elf player is a roleplayer and they picked up the race because of it's rich and interesting lore.

They also mean that void elves are not such a huge deal like you people make it out to be.

They still are a poor concept, just right below Lightforged Draenei.

He never did though.

Scroll up, revisit the previous page.

Good job, you discovered what a void elf is! It is... you guessed it... a void-infused exile of Silvermoon who joined the Alliance.

What else? Ah yeah, nothing else. Bland schizophrenic emo elves infused with void who fail to the very task they got Alleria to help them with, to control the Void and not succumb to it. What are their roles? Oh yeah, -mages- and some void spells here and there sometimes.

Void elves played a bigger role in BfA than lightforged draenei and dark irons. The lightforged draenei would have made a lot of sense in 8.3 as well, since they are trained to fight the shadows, but they are nowhere to be seen either. Also, this is nothing new. Orcs and blood elves did nothing in 7.2 when they had every right to participate in the downfall of Kil'jaeden.

They fought the Burning Legion, for thousands of years.

This is not a competition to see who did more. Void elves have done nothing that fleshes them out. They are just magical dark elves.

We have ever had so far*.

And?

And besides, we do know that Alleria is concerned about N'Zoth. While everyone is wasting time with Sylvanas, Alleria is the only one who makes a point that Sylvanas' army would be of great use against N'Zoth.

Only her is concerned about that, just her, not anyone else. And this biased take is what makes Void elves suddenly to be developed on, that their representative has said something about allying with Sylvanas because of her potential help against N'zoth...

In case you hadn't noticed, there are a lot of things they rushed in this patch. There isn't even a new zone dedicated to Ny'alotha, it's just straight-up a raid, and the only other content of notice happens in an alternate reality. It's not just void elves who are getting shafted, in case you hadn't noticed.

Soon it will make two years since the introduction of Void elves, how much has been taught to us about them?

The next patch is gonna be heavily centered about the Void, and I hope we see some more about the Void elves and what they have been working on, what they have discovered, what things can we be taught about them. But for now, it seems they are going to be in the same place as the rest of BfA. There, doing some magic tricks.

[DeicideUH]

My dude, did you even watch this cinematic?

Stop being dishonest, the cinematic is the last act in a long journey that required a lot more than being shot with void.

Alleria trained for 500 years with Locus Walker, then absorbed the essence of a void demigod, and finally absorbed L'ura. You skip to the last second of the journey as if it was the entirety of it.

Already proven wrong. If you think the void elves did nothing in BfA, you haven't played the Alliance war campaign of patch 8.0 and 8.1.

Oh yeah, they failed their only mission and appeared as background characters. Ooooh, so much development!

The lightforged are also doing nothing against N'Zoth despite being weapons of light (you know, the best weapon against the shadows).

Which I also complained about, since they, like the void elves, are trash, just a little less trashy.

[Aldo Hawk]

You asked how more void elves are made. I told you how more void elves are made. By putting in them a lot of void energy, which is how literally any other void elf was made. Know you are asking details, at which point you are no longer interested in a basic question.

Answer this: Why they don't die by being infused with that much Void energy?

The trap was made not for killing them, but for transforming them into Ethereals. It's not a simple 'high quantity' of energy infused.

Why don't they die?

- - - Updated - - -

Stop being dishonest, the cinematic is the last act in a long journey that required a lot more than being shot with void.

And we all know that Alleria was trying to become a semi-ethereal...

Come on