Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[FlubberPuddy]

No other groups behave the way Alliance-aligned high elves do. Within the contemporary Alliance-Horde dichotomy at least. Historically there are exceptions, like the Kingdom of Alterac, but that was the result of one evil individual's machinations and, yes, the Draenei fight the Eredar, but that is because the Draenei are the only Eredar who have not been irredeemably corrupted by the Legion.

You're also ignoring:

The Blackrock Orcs, the Dragonmaw Orcs
The Grimtotem tribe Tauren
The Amani Trolls
The Night Elves who follow Fandral Staghelm
etc etc, I can't think of more off top of my head.

For Humans there's tons of in-race fighting (Defias Brotherhood, Scarlet Crusade, and the aforementioned Kingdom of Alterac, the Freebooter KulTirans, and probably more I'm forgetting).

Point is there's a lot of in-fighting between members of the same race. This has been true since WoW released.

Horde and Alliance are 'ethnocentric' in the same sense that Sports teams are 'ethnocentric.'

[Thalassian Bob]

You're also ignoring:

The Blackrock Orcs, the Dragonmaw Orcs
The Grimtotem tribe Tauren
The Amani Trolls
The Night Elves who follow Fandral Staghelm
etc etc, I can't think of more off top of my head.

For Humans there's tons of in-race fighting (Defias Brotherhood, Scarlet Crusade, and the aforementioned Kingdom of Alterac, the Freebooter KulTirans, and probably more I'm forgetting).

Point is there's a lot of in-fighting between members of the same race. This has been true since WoW released.

Horde and Alliance are 'ethnocentric' in the same sense that Sports teams are 'ethnocentric.'

Not very good company for the high elves to keep is it? Which goes back to my point that high elves cannot claim any moral superiority over the blood elves.

You raise some good examples, but I would argue that, while many of those belligerents are of the same race as the groups they fight, most of them are not of the same nation. The Thalassians have only one nation and the high elves actively work against it.

Arguably each orc clan is a micro-nation and Blackrocks and Dragonmaw did not join the new nation of orcs which Thrall created in his formation of the third Horde, so while they worked against fellow orcs, they were not betraying their clans and they didn't join the Alliance.

Like orc clans, tauren tribes could be considered individual nations and the Grimtotem never officially joined the Horde. Granted, Magatha definitely worked against the interests of the Horde and Bloodhoof clan of taurens and even, at times, worked tenuously with the Alliance.

Amani and Dark Spear have been distinct nations for millennia and, while the Amani rejected the Horde after they took in the Sin'dorei, they didn't go join the Alliance.

Fandral and his followers absolutely betrayed the Kaldorei, but this came after Fandral was more or less driven mad through psychological torment and manipulation.

The Kul Tiran freebooters are a group I would actually consider analogous to the high elves to a degree, but no one would hold them up as a shining example of morality. They are self-serving and opportunistic.

Individuals (like Alliance high elves) can choose to ally with whatever group they choose, despite my grumblings. But, I won't accept that high elves as a group are innately more noble than blood elves. That was my initial point of contention.

[FlubberPuddy]

Sorry, don't have as much time to get into a full discussion.

But, I won't accept that high elves as a group are innately more noble than blood elves. That was my initial point of contention.

But if that's all then yeh, I'd agree. Just as some see Blood Elves as being correct/nobler/honorable in their decisions and others don't. It's really a matter of preference.

No group is as you say, "innately more noble".

[Thalassian Bob]

Sorry, don't have as much time to get into a full discussion.



But if that's all then yeh, I'd agree. Just as some see Blood Elves as being correct/nobler/honorable in their decisions and others don't. It's really a matter of preference.

No group is as you say, "innately more noble".

No worries, dude. Yeah, just like in real life, we have to judge individuals, not groups.

[united]

Looking at these icons a bit more:



You can see a lot of the High Elves have paler skin and then when they're Blood Elves their skin takes a more reddish tone.

That’s honestly a reach. So they went from pale white to... pale white? Belves are pretty light skinned. The biggest and only physical difference are the eyes.

- - - Updated - - -

A question to HE supporters. What uniqueness do HE bring with them (if made playable)?

Bear in mind, every race or AR that has been introduced has a level of distinctness between other existing playable races.

I don’t care about high elves but this qualification means nothing. LFD for example easily could’ve and should’ve been customization options. HM Tauren are Tauren with antlers and bodypaint. A good chunk of Allied races we have don’t bring much in terms of outright uniqueness.

[FlubberPuddy]

That’s honestly a reach. So they went from pale white to... pale white? Belves are pretty light skinned. The biggest and only physical difference are the eyes.

Not a reach at all, very easy to see with the first 6 columns from the left. There's only like 2 are the same skin tone but diff eye color.

Which is why in my quote you quoted I say "a lot" and not "all."

[matrix123mko]

Looking at these icons a bit more:



You can see a lot of the High Elves have paler skin and then when they're Blood Elves their skin takes a more reddish tone.

No. You compare images of different characters.

[FlubberPuddy]

No. You compare images of different characters.

Doesn't matter if the characters are different. Even the 2 spellbreakers with helmets on shows the blue one is paler and the red one more red undertone.

You guys are getting pedantic at this point. It's a nice little observation.

[DeicideUH]

Doesn't matter if the characters are different. Even the 2 spellbreakers with helmets on shows the blue one is paler and the red one more red undertone.

You guys are getting pedantic at this point. It's a nice little observation.

I think it's an optical illusion due to the colors surrounding it, because zooming the image makes me think it's the same shade of skin, at least in the units that repeat (helmet guy, sorceress, priest). In the case of the priest, the lighting of his eye glow over the skin also contributes to make it appear lighter, but the skin tone seems the same in portions away from the eyes.

However, the high elf-only portraits do seem to generally have a paler skin color than the blood elf-only portraits.

[united]

You guys are getting pedantic at this point. It's a nice little observation.

I don't really think it's pedantic to say blood elves and high elves have the same skin tone despite blood elves maybe appearing 0.005% darker than high elves in the image you posted because of:

the contrast in eye color and gear vs. skin tone

the elves not even being the same individual people

[FlubberPuddy]

I don't really think it's pedantic to say blood elves and high elves have the same skin tone despite blood elves maybe appearing 0.005% darker than high elves in the image you posted because of

textbook pedant right there.

[Strippling]

That’s honestly a reach. So they went from pale white to... pale white? Belves are pretty light skinned. The biggest and only physical difference are the eyes.

- - - Updated - - -



I don’t care about high elves but this qualification means nothing. LFD for example easily could’ve and should’ve been customization options. HM Tauren are Tauren with antlers and bodypaint. A good chunk of Allied races we have don’t bring much in terms of outright uniqueness.

Firstly, both HM Tauren and LF Draenei don't cross faction lines... as opposed to high elves who do. Secondly, all the ARs we have do bring some form of uniqueness. LF Draenei are devout followers of the light as opposed to regular Draenei who have a strong affinity for arcane and even shamanism too. As one example.

[united]

textbook pedant right there.

That would only make me a pedant if I was saying the 0.005% thing even if blood elves were obviously and visually darker than high elves, which they aren't in that picture.

edit:

Firstly, both HM Tauren and LF Draenei don't cross faction lines... as opposed to high elves who do.

This is true, and this reasoning is why I'm pretty sure High Elves haven't been added. They look exactly the same as belves, unlike LFD and HMT which only look mostly the same. Plus they're on two different factions, which would hurt faction identity.

They should just give Belves their blue eyes and be done with it.

[Strippling]

It's due to their lore, the idea of the underdog elves who lost everything and held onto their morality. Their story and struggles have always been appealing to me...But don't we have a megathread for this?

Siphoning magic from creatures is immoral (no different to hunting a creature for food) yet stealing artifacts to sate mana addictions is moral? The purge of Dalaran was hardly a moral event either. On top of that, high elves of the alliance are just as arrogant as their blood elf kin. They're certainly not this "humble, moral group of elves" that high elf fans make them out to be.

[matrix123mko]

Doesn't matter if the characters are different.

It does. We can easily say that these elves didn't change skin color.

Even the 2 spellbreakers with helmets on shows the blue one is paler and the red one more red undertone.

Illusion. Green is opposite of red and, thus everything gets more red. Also, blue light from the eyes tone everything down a bit.

You guys are getting pedantic at this point. It's a nice little observation.

You are pedantic here.

- - - Updated - - -

However, the high elf-only portraits do seem to generally have a paler skin color than the blood elf-only portraits.

These blood elves look angry.

[Isilrien]

Looking at these icons a bit more:



You can see a lot of the High Elves have paler skin and then when they're Blood Elves their skin takes a more reddish tone.

What's the source for these images?

[matrix123mko]

What's the source for these images?

https://twitter.com/Back2Warcraft/st...68796887715840

[scubi666stacy]

Siphoning magic from creatures is immoral (no different to hunting a creature for food) yet stealing artifacts to sate mana addictions is moral? The purge of Dalaran was hardly a moral event either. On top of that, high elves of the alliance are just as arrogant as their blood elf kin. They're certainly not this "humble, moral group of elves" that high elf fans make them out to be.

For me, High Elf fans should go off to LOTRO, really. Blood Elves are the High Elves of WoW, as "damaged" as other races are. High Elves should also go extinct or be converted to Void Elves. Simple as that. Keep progressing the story without these relics of the past.

[Isilrien]

https://twitter.com/Back2Warcraft/st...68796887715840

Thank you!

[elbleuet]

For me, High Elf fans should go off to LOTRO, really. Blood Elves are the High Elves of WoW, as "damaged" as other races are. High Elves should also go extinct or be converted to Void Elves. Simple as that. Keep progressing the story without these relics of the past.

Yea but thanks god you're not a wow developper and thus High elves will always be relevant.