Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Katchii]

But is it shown anywhere but in the visions? I don’t really count possible futures as lore. I mean, in the Horde version, Thrall is evil. That may have some insight into his vulnerabilities, but it’s in the end just a distant (and unlikely) possibility.

I just mean Void Elves deal with the Void, we're fighting a fully unleashed Old God who is a powerful user of Void magic. It should be expected that the Void Elves would be having difficulty controlling themselves and could possibly succumb to the Void while being exposed to and directly assaulted by that kind of thing.

Wasn't trying to say anything other than that, or anything regarding the visions.

[Aldo Hawk]

If you think it is wrong for children to feed on Mana Wyrm in order to survive, that's your business! for me it is a simple equation
children>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mana wyrm

It was important for children to consume mana to survive! It was life or death.the most important available source of mana were the wyrm

Is this the best you can add to the thread?

Bending words and what others say, and poorly trying to 'gotcha' others like a little kid?

I am sorry if you understood that, seems you need to fix the way you read things, since it's clearly not working.

Seriously, zero comprehension and most of your responses are one liners that indicates a low level of insight from your part.

And let's not talk about the 'moralities' since it's just too pathetic for me to care. If your best is to try to bring cheap morality and even with a false necessity for it that you yourself created... I am sorry but that is outright disrespectful.

Please stop derailing with nonsense.

[Katchii]

It's not about what they did, its about how they did it because sucking magic out of a living being is known as fel magic as you are taking the life source aswell not just the arcane energies where as beforehand they sucked arcane magic from items and trinkets which had no life to begin with.

Sucking the arcane energy out of an entity made of arcane energy isn't Fel magic though.

The Blood Elves have/had an addiction to magic and when the Sunwell was essentially destroyed as a source to feed it they turned to Fel magic as a readily available source of it, that doesn't mean they couldn't or never fed their addiction using arcane energy.

[FlubberPuddy]

Sucking the arcane energy out of an entity made of arcane energy isn't Fel magic though.

The Blood Elves have/had an addiction to magic and when the Sunwell was essentially destroyed as a source to feed it they turned to Fel magic as a readily available source of it, that doesn't mean they couldn't or never fed their addiction using arcane energy.

True but basis of fel magic source is soul (or life) energy "Fel is fueled by drawing life from living beings and consuming their souls , utterly destroying them in the process.[4]" which is the major thing High Elves were against and what led to the schism between the two groups.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Fel

So if a Blood Elf is doing what is seen in the TBC trailer, that's indeed using fel magic. Since the BE lady literally kills the manawyrm in the process.

[Katchii]

True but basis of fel magic source is soul (or life) energy "Fel is fueled by drawing life from living beings and consuming their souls , utterly destroying them in the process.[4]" which is the major thing High Elves were against and what led to the schism between the two groups.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Fel

So if a Blood Elf is doing what is seen in the TBC trailer, that's indeed using fel magic. Since the BE lady literally kills the manawyrm in the process.

Mana worms are serpeant beasts that feed on arcane energy and store it within their body, they are living creatures they are not purely made out of arcane converting life energies to sustaining magics is a form of fel magic.

I always saw it as arcane vampirism.

Vampires don't typically literally feed off the life energy of a person, they feed on their blood, but the person dies when they're done because they don't have blood anymore.

In this case, the mana wyrm's "blood" is the arcane energy that the Blood Elf feeds on. That was my interpretation anyway.

[Rhlor]

Is this the best you can add to the thread?

Bending words and what others say, and poorly trying to 'gotcha' others like a little kid?

I am sorry if you understood that, seems you need to fix the way you read things, since it's clearly not working.

Seriously, zero comprehension and most of your responses are one liners that indicates a low level of insight from your part.

And let's not talk about the 'moralities' since it's just too pathetic for me to care. If your best is to try to bring cheap morality and even with a false necessity for it that you yourself created... I am sorry but that is outright disrespectful.

Please stop derailing with nonsense.

false necessity ?? if they don't consume the mana wyrm they would die! I don't see that it is a false necessity.

you have to understand that the elves of quelthalas did not know they were addicted and the kael says it in the WCIII campaign once they lost the sunwell they realized this.

the blood elves did what was necessary to save lives !! Children's lives mainly!

[FlubberPuddy]

I always saw it as arcane vampirism.

Vampires don't typically literally feed off the life energy of a person, they feed on their blood, but the person dies when they're done because they don't have blood anymore.

In this case, the mana wyrm's "blood" is the arcane energy that the Blood Elf feeds on. That was my interpretation anyway.

I could see that, but this is where we get into a weird situation because the mana wyrm completely dies, just as a person dies if no blood yes. But the reverse isn't true, you could put blood back into a person and it won't mean they're "living."

It's also a case of this: While your earlier statement of draining arcane energy from an arcane being holds. That's not to say that someone can't be practicing fel magic at the same time they are draining arcane energy from an arcane being whose "life source" is arcane energy.

So overall, draining arcane energies isn't exclusive from practicing fel magic, both can be done at the same time. As the BE in the TBC trailer shows.

Fel magic can more easily be understood as literally draining someone's life source for energy, just as the above quoted definition shows.

[Aldo Hawk]

false necessity ?? if they don't consume the mana wyrm they would die! I don't see that it is a false necessity.

you have to understand that the elves of quelthalas did not know they were addicted and the kael says it in the WCIII campaign once they lost the sunwell they realized this.

the blood elves did what was necessary to save lives !! Children's lives mainly!

You can't be serious, it's impossible...

And let's not talk about the 'moralities' since it's just too pathetic for me to care. If your best is to try to bring cheap morality and even with a false necessity for it that you yourself created... I am sorry but that is outright disrespectful.

...

What else is to say, good luck but I am not gonna be the one that tries to deal with someone that is willfully obtuse and misleading.

- - - Updated - - -

I could see that, but this is where we get into a weird situation because the mana wyrm completely dies, just as a person dies if no blood yes. But the reverse isn't true, you could put blood back into a person and it won't mean they're "living."

It's also a case of this: While your earlier statement of draining arcane energy from an arcane being holds. That's not to say that someone can't be practicing fel magic at the same time they are draining arcane energy from an arcane being whose "life source" is arcane energy.

So overall, draining arcane energies isn't exclusive from practicing fel magic, both can be done at the same time. As the BE in the TBC trailer shows.

Fel magic can more easily be understood as literally draining someone's life source for energy, just as the above quoted definition shows.

Drain life and Drain mana are warlock abilities.

Simple, clean and direct.

[Broflake]

What are you on bruv?

Don't try to put words in my mouth nor even intend to have a superior morality over a fantasy people. Seriously, goddamn...

- - - Updated - - -


This does not prove that mana consumption is a physiological need like drinking and eating or even breathing for the Thalassians...

If that is what is stated in a canon book, then that is what it states. That's like asking for proof that the sky changes colors, and refusing to look up.

[Aldo Hawk]

If that is what is stated in a canon book, then that is what it states. That's like asking for proof that the sky changes colors, and refusing to look up.

And canon lore also says that consuming mana is not a necessity for Thalassians and they don't die for not doing so

I am not here to discuss your personal view on what a singular character said on one book or place through it's view.

Sylvanas felt like a goddess of creation and destruction because she touched Azerite. So she is a goddess of creation and destruction when she touches Azerite. Yes. She felt like that, so she is, definitely.

[Broflake]

I am not here to discuss your personal view on what a singular character said on one book or place through it's view.

So why are you discussing it instead of accepting it as it is?
Were the high elves reliant upon the power of the sunwell? Yes.
Are you weaker when you dont eat food? Yes
Are you weaker when you can't breath properly? Yes.
Are you weaker when dehydrated? Yes.
Did some die without it? Yes.

So...why are you debating it when it clearly is the case?

[Aldo Hawk]

So why are you discussing it instead of accepting it as it is?

You are wrong on saying that I am discussing. There is no discussion, what you say is wrong.

Were the high elves reliant upon the power of the sunwell? Yes.
Are you weaker when you dont eat food? Yes
Are you weaker when you can't breath properly? Yes.
Are you weaker when dehydrated? Yes.
Did some die without it? Yes.

Mana is not water nor air nor food for the Thalassians.

So...why are you debating it when it clearly is the case?

It's not a debate, you are wrong. End of story.

This all makes me think you don't know much about the effects of addiction and withdrawal of 'hard substances' without any kind of replacement or technique to help to cope with the issue. I don't want to talk extensively about it since I don't feel this is the place for it, but to say that the weak died because of withdrawal and trying to make it signify that everyone needed it to survive as if it were air, water and/or food is not only wrong, but illogical.

By the way, why is this point so important? I am very curious... What kind of masterly point are you trying to make? Just saying, it doesn't have an actual base since needing for a wrong thing to be believed makes it very flimsy.

[Broflake]

You are wrong on saying that I am discussing. There is no discussion, what you say is wrong.

Its a quote from a canon source, and information supports it. So you can continue screaming this over and over, but that doesn't change this fact.

Mana is not water nor air nor food for the Thalassians.

Even though they are severely weakened without it.
Even though the frail, sick, and old died without it.
*insert thinking emoticon here*.
Healthy adults survive without it for a time, the above categories don't. That does make it an essential thing.

It's not a debate, you are wrong. End of story.

Yeah, no, it doens't work that way Aldo. You can't declare something wrong just because you don't agree with it. Canon source > You

This all makes me think you don't know much about the effects of addiction and withdrawal of 'hard substances'

I mean...if you want to continue stick your foot in your mouth you can, but this assumption of yours is a foolish one that you really should not be making of those disagreeing with you.

without any kind of replacement or technique to help to cope with the issue.

Yes, and withdrawal symptoms can kill you even as a "healthy" adult due to the effects on the body.

but illogical.

It is a fantasy story, it does not need to be logical.

By the way, why is this point so important?

I was going to ask you, since you're railing and screaming against it while shouting wrong wrong wrong over and over.
Look Aldo, it does not matter what you believe. It does not matter what the logic is in reality. This is a fantasy world, and if it is stated to be a thing, then its a thing until proven otherwise. Given the effects it had upon the thalassian people, it is very correct.
If you don't like it? That doesn't really matter.

This is what a canon source says, and it is supported by the lore. So why are you fighting it so hard for no reason?

[Ielenia]

Even though they are severely weakened without it.
Even though the frail, sick, and old died without it.
*insert thinking emoticon here*.
Healthy adults survive without it for a time, the above categories don't. That does make it an essential thing.

Adults don't "survive without it for a long time". They just simply survive. Mana is not the elves' food. It's akin to real life drug addiction, only without the negative effects of the substance use.

It's downright baffling why you keep calling mana 'food' despite it's being constantly referred to as "addiction" in the lore:
Aurora: "I had wondered why the pangs of the addiction felt so eased lately. I have not needed... help... to cope."

It is also canon that some high elves that completely shed their addiction through willpower alone. That would not be possible if mana was their "food".

[Jiastanna]

I can see highelfs being a customization for belfs after the factions dissolve. Just put velfs, belfs and helfs into one race and let player choose their skincolor, eyecolor and anything else. It is then like the DK and DH skins or eyecolors.

It just needs a revamp of the starting area. The DKs get one, why not present one to belfs and draenei too? Just implement Quel'Thalas revamped to the EK and the Azuremyst Isle to Kalimdor. It has been long overdue anyway.

[Aldo Hawk]

Its a quote from a canon source, and information supports it. So you can continue screaming this over and over, but that doesn't change this fact.


Even though they are severely weakened without it.
Even though the frail, sick, and old died without it.
*insert thinking emoticon here*.
Healthy adults survive without it for a time, the above categories don't. That does make it an essential thing.


Yeah, no, it doens't work that way Aldo. You can't declare something wrong just because you don't agree with it. Canon source > You


I mean...if you want to continue stick your foot in your mouth you can, but this assumption of yours is a foolish one that you really should not be making of those disagreeing with you.


Yes, and withdrawal symptoms can kill you even as a "healthy" adult due to the effects on the body.


It is a fantasy story, it does not need to be logical.

I was going to ask you, since you're railing and screaming against it while shouting wrong wrong wrong over and over.
Look Aldo, it does not matter what you believe. It does not matter what the logic is in reality. This is a fantasy world, and if it is stated to be a thing, then its a thing until proven otherwise. Given the effects it had upon the thalassian people, it is very correct.
If you don't like it? That doesn't really matter.

This is what a canon source says, and it is supported by the lore. So why are you fighting it so hard for no reason?

You really hate me don't you?

I am not continuing, you can say whatever but the truth is not gonna be decided by what we agree. You are wrong period.

[scubi666stacy]

Adults don't "survive without it for a long time". They just simply survive. Mana is not the elves' food. It's akin to real life drug addiction, only without the negative effects of the substance use.

It's downright baffling why you keep calling mana 'food' despite it's being constantly referred to as "addiction" in the lore:
Aurora: "I had wondered why the pangs of the addiction felt so eased lately. I have not needed... help... to cope."

It is also canon that some high elves that completely shed their addiction through willpower alone. That would not be possible if mana was their "food".

Oh yes, of course, it's totally easy. When so many become wretched (Blood Elves) or withered (Nightborne), it has clearly nothing to do with lacking mana and turning to something completely different.

They lost their minds completely, their bodies have been altered etc. They are literally zombies in the worst case, minus the undead part. This is much more than just "withdrawal". The process can be compared to Broken Draenei, though in the later case the source has been a different one. And the Broken got at least to keep their senses, so the process is even worse for Elves.

Even if mana is not as important to BE and NB as air or water is, it's much more than just a "drug".

[Aldo Hawk]

Oh yes, of course, it's totally easy. When so many become wretched (Blood Elves) or withered (Nightborne), it has clearly nothing to do with lacking mana and turning to something completely different.

They lost their minds completely, their bodies have been altered etc. They are literally zombies in the worst case, minus the undead part. This is much more than just "withdrawal". The process can be compared to Broken Draenei, though in the later case the source has been a different one. And the Broken got at least to keep their senses, so the process is even worse for Elves.

Even if mana is not as important to BE and NB as air or water is, it's much more than just a "drug".

This is proof that you don't read anything on this same thread while you try to impose your believing on others.

Nightborne don't need mana anymore thanks to the Arcan'dor, and comparing Nightborne and Thalassians you have this difference. That's for starter.

Nightborne died and withered by not consuming mana, ergo for them it was actually something they needed to maintain their lives.

Blood elves/High elves do -not- necome wretched by not consuming mana, they become wretched by consuming -too- much of it. Arcane torrent is the spell through Blood elves liberate excess of magic, because that is what the problem for them is, consuming too much mana, not consuming mana doesn't kill them of starvation.

This has been explained not only on this same thread, but on this same page.

Please, contain yourself.

[FlubberPuddy]

You're hitting WAAAAYY off here withered came into existence because the elves over indulged on the magic they used to satiate their addiction.

What can you expect from people who aren't really here to have a real discussion and just want to keep stamping their feet and going, "no no no no"?

Makes it clear they themselves don't play Blood Elves for the lore (if they do at all) and merely for the looks. Again, this will always look extremely hypocritical and ironic when they start to accuse "helfers" of wanting High Elves simply for looks.

[Ielenia]

Oh yes, of course, it's totally easy. When so many become wretched (Blood Elves) or withered (Nightborne), it has clearly nothing to do with lacking mana and turning to something completely different.

They lost their minds completely, their bodies have been altered etc. They are literally zombies in the worst case, minus the undead part. This is much more than just "withdrawal". The process can be compared to Broken Draenei, though in the later case the source has been a different one. And the Broken got at least to keep their senses, so the process is even worse for Elves.

Even if mana is not as important to BE and NB as air or water is, it's much more than just a "drug".

Blood elf "wretched" comes from overindulgence, not withdrawal. And the BE do not "lose their mind completely". They don't become "mindless beasts". They still keep their sanity for the most part.