Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Issilian]

But if they want to close the book on High Elves and see them dwindle into nothing then that is okay as well, so long as the story gets told visibly and they get an appropriate send-off in terms of quality.

That kinda has been the story they have been telling since Burning Crusade, the rise of the Blood Elves was the first step. And I do agree that doing the story of it right would be important, and good fun. Last of a dying race is a fantasy trope that can be used to tell some very powerful stories.


As for using the new human character models as an excuse, oh come off it. I've been inactive for a while, so I can't post links, but a little googling will do the trick for you.

About 70000 years ago humanity almost died out due to a genetic bottleneck, something called The Toba eruption. There were so few of us left that we would from all intents and purposes have succumbed to inbreeding over a few generations, High Elves seems to have hit that level of low. The difference between them and Void Elves is that the VE's can create new members of their race not just through birth, but also through "void corruption", that's a big difference. Then, of course, the counter-argument is HEs can change the minds of their BE counterparts and they can defect to the Alliance, so it's kinda circular, I get that, but when BEs defect it seems to be because they join the VEs.

[Maxilian]

Who says they would only have different eye color? Look at Alleria. She has blue body tattoos and with the new customization options, it's easy to give them that.

To be fair, the Tattoos is not something that all High elves have, is more of a Thalassian ranger stuff

[Ignaz]

In Warcraft 3 there's an entire scenario that plays out of the High Elves actually breaking their alliance with the Alliance due to what happened with Garithos. The only High Elves still loyal to the Alliance are those that weren't ever really part of High Elven society to begin with, the self exiles or those who were on long missions away from Azeroth and weren't around to witness the crap that happened that caused the high Elves to leave the Alliance and change their name to Blood Elves.

A tiny fraction of the High Elven race exist as non-Blood Elves.

I'm not debating their likelihood of ever becoming an Alliance Race, just pointing out the history. That the Alliance aligned High Elves are the exception to the rule, there aren't enough of them to warrant an entire culture as they didn't cling to any specific culture at that point anyway. The culture of High Elves now belongs to the Blood Elves as the Blood Elves represent the population that stayed in the cities and maintained a society. A bunch of lodges completely segregated from each other, small packs of HE's living completely under the radar and a group that stayed and lived in Dalaran don't make up a "society" or a culture. That's like saying a bunch of Americans leave the city they live in, separately, go start living in the mountains and don't interact with anyone for years, and all survive separately and saying that those people are now the American culture...that's ridiculous.

Those high elves who broke their ties with the alliance were led by Kael to later become blood elves. Much has happened since then, including the separation of a group of high elves (1% of the remaining population), and since that time the blood elves have mutated in some way to consider them a race apart from the high elves thanks to the fel energy corruption (only for a slight aesthetic change).

That tiny faction of high elves could have grow since that time

[Maxilian]

About 70000 years ago humanity almost died out due to a genetic bottleneck, something called The Toba eruption. There were so few of us left that we would from all intents and purposes have succumbed to inbreeding over a few generations, High Elves seems to have hit that level of low. The difference between them and Void Elves is that the VE's can create new members of their race not just through birth, but also through "void corruption", that's a big difference. Then, of course, the counter-argument is HEs can change the minds of their BE counterparts and they can defect to the Alliance, so it's kinda circular, I get that, but when BEs defect it seems to be because they join the VEs.

We actually do not know if VE's children inherit their Void connection or are just like Worgen that are born with no curse/corruption, also... we do not even know if they can reproduce (is plausible to say that the void corruption make pregnancy impossible or just harder)

[Katchii]

Those high elves who broke their ties with the alliance were led by Kael to later become blood elves. Much has happened since then, including the separation of a group of high elves (1% of the remaining population), and since that time the blood elves have mutated in some way to consider them a race apart from the high elves thanks to the fel energy corruption (only for a slight aesthetic change).

That tiny faction of high elves could have grow since that time

Oh I agree, but that still doesn't mean that the population that exists is somehow a united, cohesive society and therefore have a collective culture as one group of people. The only collective that really has a leg to stand on as far as a cohesive group and possibly culture are the Silver Hand from Dalaran.

I could see using that specific group as a springboard for a playable race, that would make sense to me. Especially since the Void Elves are a playable race and their numbers were so much less than the High Elven population that was said to be tiny, so that can't be an excuse anymore, IMO.

Just wanted to point out that the remaining High Elves are not a collective, unified, society with a uniform culture....they're "mountain men" who are almost self imposed exiles with the Silver Hand being the exception to that.

[How dare you]

She was apart of the same culture before she left so she's actually wearing and appears how Blood Elves should through heritage, those tattoos and looks should go to Blood Elves.

Yeah sure. Make Blood Elves look like High Elves. That makes sense.

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To be fair, the Tattoos is not something that all High elves have, is more of a Thalassian ranger stuff

That's true, but it is a great way to distinguish the race. It's not like every character has to use them, you always have an option not to use things like tattoos at all.

Obviously those tattoos wouldn't be the only thing. They should also have their own blue-colored heritage armor, a unicorn mount and their own High Elf themed racials, and it would be just fine. I really don't see a problem with it, I think Blizzard is just stubborn for no reason with this.

[Maxilian]

That's true, but it is a great way to distinguish the race. It's not like every character has to use them, you always have an option not to use things like tattoos at all.

Obviously those tattoos wouldn't be the only thing. They should also have their own blue-colored heritage armor, a unicorn mount and their own High Elf themed racials, and it would be just fine. I really don't see a problem with it, I think Blizzard is just stubborn for no reason with this.

Well the detail is that i would not be surprised if they add those tattoos option to the BEs now.

Either way, i think that the best way to distinguish between those 2, is just to give HEs a different model.

Even though both are the same race, it doesn't really matter, i mean... we do have HEs with other models and animations:

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...ozdormuNEW.jpg

[Frenchvince]

I hope that in the Shadowlands we will encounter high-elf souls who died during the flail attack at Quel'Thalas / Silvermoon.
I think for the most part they will be surprised at what has become of the survivors, I am talking about blood elves.

It would be interesting to know.

[Manariel]

Void elves aren't an elite squad, they are a faction and just the FACT that they became an allied race and High Elves didn't prove that there are more of them. By the logic that's being used by most of the people in this thread.

But it's actually not the conversation that I want to have, what interests me is the sideways conversation of why you guys cling to it?

The quote in Obelisk Kai's signature should have killed this conversation, at least until Ion leaves the position of Game Director or makes a statement to the opposite. Your interest has been made known to the company and nothing has happened, no progress at all.

A very standard line in community management is "get enough people to show interest and we'll take a look", this isn't just Blizzard, this is CM's everywhere their job is to listen to communities, break them down into manageable bits and feed them back to the devs, then inform the player base what's going on. Basic stuff. Now, years later you've done that, you've made a fuss, over and over and over and nothing's happened. A few models pop up from time to time, probably cus the designer in working that project thinks "that looks cool", not "lets hint at some elves". The design team knows that you want them and at this stage, it's like messaging that person that you went on a coffee date with years ago and who never responds to your DMs again, and again, and again. I really genuinely want to know, what drives you?

We want High Elves, not Void Elves, or Dark Elves, or whatever. That's as simple as that. And they exists, they are far more numerous than Void Elves and they make sense. Considering all that, I don't see any reason to stop asking for them.

Blizzard already proved that the reasons they pretended prevented High Elves to be playable are bullshit :
-Pandaren are a thing, so perfectly similar models in the Horde and the Alliance are not a problem
-Void Elves have been stated to be extremely few, basically not even a sect of Blood Elves but Umbric and his entourage, a little squad, and they are playable

Furthermore, High Elves have an organization, the Silver Covenant, more named characters than the VE, Vereesa and Auric Sunchaser (compared to Umbric, since Alleria isn't even a real Void Elf) and unlike almost every race the Alliance ever had added to its ranks, it wouldn't be lore-breaking.

[Koroniss]

Well the detail is that i would not be surprised if they add those tattoos option to the BEs now.

Either way, i think that the best way to distinguish between those 2, is just to give HEs a different model.

Even though both are the same race, it doesn't really matter, i mean... we do have HEs with other models and animations:

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...ozdormuNEW.jpg

The problem with potentially giving Alliance High Elves new model would be its subjective appreciation. Even if all who would like to roll one get to love the model, the majority of the playerbase is mainly Horde, and most of those play Blood Elves. The entire decade long AHE debate would pale in comparison to the vitriol that would be directed towards Blizzard from players who actually happen to like said new model more than what the current BE one has to offer. For the most part Void Elves managed to avoid that by being objectively extremely limiting, purple tentacles and all. What they have going for them is an actual facial hair, and you've seen how many people instantly cried out to finally have those for their Blood Elves as well.

I am fully expecting Blood Elves to get blue eyes, tattoos and perhaps some scars (aside from new haircuts, etc.). Was somewhat surprised when Blizzard intentionally avoided the topic when faced with the specific question.

Then again, there is another thing to consider. There are many folks who are very strict about the entire "Void Elves shouldn't get any fair skins, ever, as all those shades aesthetically belong to the Blood Elves, and faction identity is important", whilst arguing for getting blue and purple eyes. Shouldn't the same reasoning be applied vice versa - blue eyes were given to the Void Elves, and are now part of their identity. Giving another shade of blue to the BE would be equal to giving fair skins to VE, and dilute said faction identity.

That said, I don't mind blue eyes for Bloodies, and I hope for fair skins for Voidies down the road. I personally am quite fine with both.

[Uthan]

But... again Blood elves ARE High elves...

Were*. Calling a Blood Elf "High Elf" would be quite insulting to them. Yes, from an out of game perspective they are seemingly the same, but in-game they are very different which the game has continually emphasized for 15 years.

[Ignaz]

Oh I agree, but that still doesn't mean that the population that exists is somehow a united, cohesive society and therefore have a collective culture as one group of people. The only collective that really has a leg to stand on as far as a cohesive group and possibly culture are the Silver Hand from Dalaran.

I could see using that specific group as a springboard for a playable race, that would make sense to me. Especially since the Void Elves are a playable race and their numbers were so much less than the High Elven population that was said to be tiny, so that can't be an excuse anymore, IMO.

Just wanted to point out that the remaining High Elves are not a collective, unified, society with a uniform culture....they're "mountain men" who are almost self imposed exiles with the Silver Hand being the exception to that.

Agree. Also and Maybe Blizzard could just create an excuse to bring all those Helves groups and reunited them under the same banner and culture.

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But... again Blood elves ARE High elves...

Not anymore since they separated they ways

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They changed their name to honour their dead being called a High elf would not insult them its only the treacherous Elves who get offended by being called a Blood elf.

They were called high elves, but (again) since they separation, blood elves chose to use and interact with fel magic. That changed them to be other race apart from high elves.
I repeat: they are different races from the same spices like night elves and nightborn (it's just logic)

[Uthan]

They changed their name to honour their dead being called a High elf would not insult them its only the treacherous Elves who get offended by being called a Blood elf.

Yes, and I'd imagine someone not using your new name that you took to honour your fallen kin would be fairly insulting. And clearly you agree the two groups are different if one of them is treacherous while the other isn't. We could rename the thread official traitor elf discussion megathread, but High Elf is the word Blizzard uses to describe them so it makes more sense to call them that. They'd still be a seperate group on the alliance that are at some level different from the Blood Elves, and Blizzard have kept showing all over the place for 15 years.

[Katchii]

They were called high elves, but (again) since they separation, blood elves chose to use and interact with fel magic. That changed them to be other race apart from high elves

I repeat: they are different races from the same spices like night elves and nightborn (it's just logic)

They really aren't. The separation between the High Elves and Blood Elves only happened like 10-15 years ago in the aftermath of the third war. There are Blood Elves living that used to call themselves High Elves. I'd say the majority of them...all of the adults for sure. There hasn't been enough time for the two groups of people to diverge genetically like Night Elves and Nightborne, which happened over 10,000 years.

I mean, every Blood Elf racial leader was a High Elf. Are you saying that Lorthemar, Liadrin, Rommath, etc... are all genetically different from themselves just 10-15 years ago? That the same person is no longer the same race as they were at that time? If we were talking thousands of years, I'd be open to the idea, but we're barely talking one generation.

[Ignaz]

They really aren't. The separation between the High Elves and Blood Elves only happened like 10-15 years ago in the aftermath of the third war. There are Blood Elves living that used to call themselves High Elves. I'd say the majority of them...all of the adults for sure. There hasn't been enough time for the two groups of people to diverge genetically like Night Elves and Nightborne, which happened over 10,000 years.

I mean, every Blood Elf racial leader was a High Elf. Are you saying that Lorthemar, Liadrin, Rommath, etc... are all genetically different from themselves just 10-15 years ago? That the same person is no longer the same race as they were at that time? If we were talking thousands of years, I'd be open to the idea, but we're barely talking one generation.

Yes i did.
In real life it could take that time to become another race, (the wolf and the dog for example) BUT we are talking about wow, where (i repeat again) is a biological fundament that using or absorbing magic could change you rapidly (Green orcs, Illidan aaand void elves)
Just to change their actitud, skin color an eyes is the evidence
Examples
Green Orcs ≠ brown Orcs
Fel/void elves ≠high elves ≠ blood (little fel) Elves

[Maxilian]

Yes i did.
In real life it could take that time to become another race, (the wolf and the dog for example) BUT we are talking about wow, where (i repeat again) is a biological fundament that using or absorbing magic could change you rapidly (Green orcs, Illidan aaand void elves)
Just to change their actitud, skin color an eyes is the evidence
Examples
Green Orcs ≠ brown Orcs
Fel/void elves ≠high elves ≠ blood (little fel) Elves

To be fair, the Orc skin and the BE eyes color will eventually fade with time (unless they start again consuming fel energy).

[Katchii]

Yes i did.
In real life it could take that time to become another race, (the wolf and the dog for example) BUT we are talking about wow, where (i repeat again) is a biological fundament that using or absorbing magic could change you rapidly (Green orcs, Illidan aaand void elves)
Just to change their actitud, skin color an eyes is the evidence
Examples
Green Orcs ≠ brown Orcs
Fel/void elves ≠high elves ≠ blood (little fel) Elves

I don't agree that the Blood Elves are so genetically different from themselves just 10-15 years earlier that they can be considered a completely different race. Their circumstances are not the same as the Green Orcs and Void Elves who were exposed to something that changed them rapidly.

[FlubberPuddy]

Regardless of same race or not.

A Horde Blood Elf isn't what players are asking for here.

They want an Alliance High Elf.

It'll be more obvious (if it somehow already isn't) once if Blood Elves get Blue Eyes and you still see the High Elf request occurring. Because if all people wanted were "blue eyed blood elves" they have that through Void Elves. Obviously not, as the request for High Elves has exploded post Void Elves.

As the same thing that happened with Wildhammer, they got Dark Iron and people kept touting "oh if you want Wildhammer just make a Dwarf Shaman there", which was not the answer obviously because Blizzard now gave Dwarves Wildhammer customization and then said 'now you can roll a Wildhammer Dwarf' stating this is their resolution to that request.

It's like this: If you wanted to finally play a Wildhammer Dwarf and they added that aesthetic onto the Horde, you'd still get people asking for Wildhammers on the Alliance. Why?

Because it's not just the aesthetic of the character itself, it's everything else surrounding it too -> The Alliance cities, the Alliance factions, the Alliance mounts, the Alliance mogs, etc etc.

You're not getting that Alliance thematic just picking a similar looking race on Horde side. That's the fundamental uniqueness that can't ever be solved by saying 'oh just roll X on Horde". Regardless of if someone is the same race or not.

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And seeing Wildhammer come as simply extra customization makes me damn thankful we at least got the Thalassian model on the Alliance. Now it's just asking for more customization options truly.

[Issilian]

And you've asked and you've asked, for years, and allied races would have been the "right" time to do it, if they were ever going to.

Simply put, the amount of individual account holders asking for this seems to be smaller than the amount needed to make it happen or at this point it would have. So it might be what people in this thread are asking for, but it's just not enough, you've not made enough noise. Cost vs. benefit it as this stage must have been calculated and conclusion is "not worth it" or we would have seen it by now. So my question is, why is it so important to you?

[Strippling]

And you've asked and you've asked, for years, and allied races would have been the "right" time to do it, if they were ever going to.

Simply put, the amount of individual account holders asking for this seems to be smaller than the amount needed to make it happen or at this point it would have. So it might be what people in this thread are asking for, but it's just not enough, you've not made enough noise. Cost vs. benefit it as this stage must have been calculated and conclusion is "not worth it" or we would have seen it by now. So my question is, why is it so important to you?

That's an easy one to answer. It's so important to them because blood elves are arguably the best looking model in the game and they simply want to play the best model. It's a shallow desire.. I know.

They may mask their desire with "it's all about the lore", but that argument falls flat on its face because most helfers have agreed that they'd be happy with high elf customization options for void elves, even though it'd still be a void elf and not the high elf they apparently want (for "lore" reasons). It's purely about the looks, they wish they had a horde aesthetic and try to subtly mask their desire with "lore" reasons and declare that they'd "settle" for light skin options for void elves (which would effectively just make void elves back into blood elves... but wait!! I thought it was about high elf lore???? /shrug)