Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Amaterasu65]

If Blizzard wanted money they'd make a High Elf AR for the Alliance with some tattoos or whatever to make people race change on the spot. They might be keeping it for some other drought, or they plan on teasing us forever, the latest tease being Anniversary event where you can see HE representing the Alliance population and BE for the Horde. Keep it up Blizz.

[Obelisk Kai]

If Blizzard wanted money they'd make a High Elf AR for the Alliance with some tattoos or whatever to make people race change on the spot. They might be keeping it for some other drought, or they plan on teasing us forever, the latest tease being Anniversary event where you can see HE representing the Alliance population and BE for the Horde. Keep it up Blizz.

Those are Bronze Dragons. They are labelled Keepers of time or something similar.

[Amaterasu65]

Those are Bronze Dragons. They are labelled Keepers of time or something similar.

They use HE models for the Alliance and BE for the Horde. Why do they distinguish them like that?

[Issilian]

If Blizzard wanted money they'd make a High Elf AR for the Alliance with some tattoos or whatever to make people race change on the spot. They might be keeping it for some other drought, or they plan on teasing us forever, the latest tease being Anniversary event where you can see HE representing the Alliance population and BE for the Horde. Keep it up Blizz.

But that's literally it, they must have made a cost benefit analysis and ended up with a value proposition that just simply wasn't good enough. The point here is that they it's not worth it for them or they would be here by now.

[FlubberPuddy]

They use HE models for the Alliance and BE for the Horde. Why do they distinguish them like that?

All of the "Revelers of Time" NPCs are Bronze Dragon High Elf NPCs. I'm not sure where you're seeing they use BE for Horde and HE for Alliance.

The way I checked was clicking on them and they use the Night Elf Voices for both males and females.

[Amaterasu65]

All of the "Revelers of Time" NPCs are Bronze Dragon High Elf NPCs. I'm not sure where you're seeing they use BE for Horde and HE for Alliance.

The way I checked was clicking on them and they use the Night Elf Voices for both males and females.

High Elf NPCs have been using the NE voices years now. Have you ever played Alliance? Also their eye colour is different.

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But that's literally it, they must have made a cost benefit analysis and ended up with a value proposition that just simply wasn't good enough. The point here is that they it's not worth it for them or they would be here by now.

Big doubt, considering the huge VE popularity at level 120. They're everywhere and they are getting more. Elves will always print easy money. Throw some unique customizations and a cool heritage armor and it's gg.

[FlubberPuddy]

And you've asked and you've asked, for years, and allied races would have been the "right" time to do it, if they were ever going to.

Simply put, the amount of individual account holders asking for this seems to be smaller than the amount needed to make it happen or at this point it would have. So it might be what people in this thread are asking for, but it's just not enough, you've not made enough noise. Cost vs. benefit it as this stage must have been calculated and conclusion is "not worth it" or we would have seen it by now. So my question is, why is it so important to you?

Well me personally, I've only asked for maybe 2 years now. And it's not something I "make sure to ask daily". Most of my time in this thread recently is usually because someone quotes me for a response

See all the conversation we're having right now doesn't mean much past the first few personal posts of whether somebody wants them or not and the explanations for those reasons.

Circular arguments are just noise when taking in feedback (if a developer were to peruse a thread such as this in the first place).

I'm not sure I agree with "all the people here have not made enough noise" as simply put, the more sparse (relatively) want for Alliance High Elves led to Void Elves. There's no reason to get the -exact- Thalassian model as the exchange whereas Horde got a heavily modified Night Elf. The only thing separating a Void Elf from a Blood Elf aesthetically is a skin of blue. As you can forgo having tentacle hair, thus not making it a requirement to the look.

To answer your question of "why is it so important", is simply what Ion said: "the idea here is to give more options than ever before so that you can actually look and feel like you want to feel, and different from the others around you that play the exact same race."

This is what everyone wants from increased customization. To be able to play the type of character they've always envisioned, really.

And while Allied Races are said to not be getting the increased customization "atm", you can bet your ass people who love their Void Elves/Lightforged Draenei/Nightborne/Zandalari/etc are going to be asking for the same level of increased customization that's coming to the original races.

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High Elf NPCs have been using the NE voices years now. Have you ever played Alliance? Also their eye colour is different.

Did you understand what I said? There are not "Blood Elves and High Elves", all of the Reveler NPCs are using High Elves, which uses Thalassian model with Blue Eyes (glowy/non-glowy) and Night Elf voiceovers.

I'm unsure of the point you're trying to make in this post. But the Reveler NPCs are all one model. There is no "Blood Elf" one.

[How dare you]

Well the detail is that i would not be surprised if they add those tattoos option to the BEs now.

Either way, i think that the best way to distinguish between those 2, is just to give HEs a different model.

Even though both are the same race, it doesn't really matter, i mean... we do have HEs with other models and animations:

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...ozdormuNEW.jpg

I wouldn't mind them getting red ones.

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But... again Blood elves ARE High elves...

Yeah and Mag'har orcs ARE orcs.

[Maxilian]

I wouldn't mind them getting red ones.

Red eyes sound pretty cool, but... we rarely see those, those make me think about the Sanlayn or Blood Dks.

[How dare you]

Red eyes sound pretty cool, but... we rarely see those, those make me think about the Sanlayn or Blood Dks.

I thought we were talking about tattoos

[Maxilian]

I thought we were talking about tattoos

Ah, sorry, i had the idea of eyes in mind cause everyone was talking about this, but yes, it would be really nice to have red tattoos, and i imagine, that if we get tattoos, red ones should be an option (is like the main color of the race AND the faction)

[Dastreus]

If horde get high elf options and alliance don't the sheer injustice of such will be fucking bullshit. The Blood Elves banished their blue eyed brethren for refusing Kael's gift! They are the traitors to their brethren. It's so bad that last I knew, any high elves spotted in Eversong is considered criminal. And hell, before Cataclysm, Nathanos led an assault on Quel'lithien Lodge in EPL. The Forsaken leaders' boy toy legit killed high elves. So if they join the horde, Blizz has lost their fucking minds.

[FlubberPuddy]

I snipped a whole bunch of stuff that is mainly been said over and over. Focusing the conversation of what the idea of these increased customizations mean and topics pertaining to that rather than same old diatribe on what a High Elf is.

Void Elves ARE High Elves. This is why the clever thing would have been to declare victory on this topic two years ago following their reveal. But Void Elves are a type of High Elf, a variant. They are not the original High Elves who are present on the Horde. Not all races are equal. Some will be better able to carry the advanced customization options they are getting and facilitate the fantasy. Void Elves are at the very bottom of the list, because their specific origin precludes anyone from playing them as anything other than what they are, a Void Elf. Even in the unlikely event Blizzard gives them perfectly fair skin and glowing blond hair, the moment Entropic Embrace procs is the moment the illusion shatters.

So how do you solve that? Perhaps give those Void Elves with unique skins unique racials? Perhaps different voice lines? Perhaps the ability to tag themselves as High Elves rather than Void Elves? Or perhaps you do none of that and whatever customization options are intended for Void Elves aren't intended to undermine the fantasy of the Void Elf or disguise the fact they are Void Elves and that Void Elves will get whatever Void Elves will get whilst remaining unambiguously Void Elves.

You're not really making an argument here taking into the purpose/goal of the new increased customizations. Let me bring it up to you so you know. This is what Ion specifically said about their purpose: "the idea here is to give more options than ever before so that you can actually look and feel like you want to feel, and different from the others around you that play the exact same race."

Now, look at the examples they showed: Desert Trolls, Dark Trolls (a damn near extinct race with only 1 surviving member till now), and by your admission - Blood Trolls. Wildhammer Dwarves (who people used to tout as 'just make a dwarf shaman there's your wildhammer'). Even introduced super dark dwarves when the conventional portrayal doesn't have them that way.

They're obviously not trying to stick to a specific aesthetic. They also said these customizations will be available upon release, no needing to unlock them (because it's simply a gameplay feature without lore). They don't care about the racials here as a Wildhammer having Stoneform and +Archaeology and Mountain King Heritage Armor with Rams out the wazoo makes no sense, but Blizzard doesn't care.

Your spiel here isn't taking into account the goal/idea of these new customizations, and also they've stated this is simply the beginning of the customization overhaul they want to do. Maybe one day we COULD pick our racials, who knows?

The key issue with you looking to the core races and presuming Blizzard doesn't care about the aesthetic is however somewhat easy to dismantle. Because, as stated, there is a certain level of flexibility with the core races the Allied races do not have. For example, would Lightforged Draenei be expected to have red Eredar skin tones? Why should they not? After all, your argument is that Blizzard doesn't care and it would be expand customization options for Lightforged Draenei and there are plenty of people over the years who have asked to play Eredar, why not use Lightforged as the way to deliver it?

Because the lore of the Lightforged makes a nonsense of the idea, that is why. Just as the lore of the Void Elves is highly limiting towards what can be done with them as well, as a Void Elf is the result of a specific process wherein they are bombarded by void energy to provoke a transformation. And on that topic, it is slightly ridiculous to suggest that the customizations Blizzard are likely to provide are the ones you crave, because there is already a traditional high elf type within the game already. Why would Blizzard want to do something as boring as that? Why would the artist assigned to build void elf customization options even be briefed to do that?

What is this flexibility that the original races have that the Allied Races do not? Please, explain to me how lore in any way justifies a Desert troll or Dark Troll playable with the starting zone of a Jungle Troll.

All you're doing here is saying that original races have flexibility and giving no concrete examples.

Do you understand that they're not revamping the original starting zones for each of the original races? The only people 'forced' into the new starting zone are completely 1st time players and that new starting zone doesn't have any extra lore other than 'you are a member of the Alliance or Horde' as said by the developers.

Can you explain why someone being able to play a Blood Troll (after the expansion we're killing multiple of them) are suddenly within the Horde? Again, remember that there is no "unlocking" of these new customizations -> they will become immediately available.

Someone who makes a Desert Troll and wants to do his 'original starting zone' is going to taken to an island just like all the others. The "lore of the Darkspear makes a nonsense of the idea" isn't stopping Blizzard from adding Desert Trolls to the mix. It also isn't stopping them from adding a near-extinct-save-for-one-person race like Dark Trolls either. What's this "flexibility"?

I figure it is far more likely Blizzard will 'lean in' to the void concept. More tentacles. More shadowy effects. And any fair skin options heavily tainted or mottled with void energies. In other words, making a Void Elf like a Void Elf.

Again, examples shown they're not trying to stay within a specific aesthetic. Their multiple responses towards different people asking if Allied Races are getting new customization is simply "not right now" or "right now we're working on original races". Nothing is being said about 'oh there's a specific aesthetic we wanna keep with the Allied Races'.

Also, with how different the customization options within the same race, you can bet that people will be clamoring for the same breadth of options. They already are btw.

Also, the most asked for customization for Void Elves in particular is others wanting them to be like High Elves.

The most asked for customization for Dwarves were Wildhammers
The most asked for customization for Humans were different ethnicites.
The most asked for customization for Trolls were the various different environmental Trolls.
The most asked for customization for Undead were hiding bones.

Do you see the pattern developing? They're all customization options that were brought on by what's been most requested over the years. That means they looked at player feedback regarding what additions players of those specific races wanted and added them, along with others.

That's why I'm highly confident about increased customization. Because 1) It's not sticking to a specific aesthetic 2) No lore is involved 3) The whole purpose is solely to add a variety of options along with what was most requested.

Like I said, I won't be surprised if we see 'Highborne style' Night Elven customization and Green skin Troll customization. Blizzard effectively making statements like "now you can play a Wildhammer Dwarf" means recent statements like "just roll a dwarf shaman = wildhammer dwarf" were not sufficient and is why Blizzard added these new styles/looks.

Void Elves should not be used as the vector for a true original High Elf fantasy for the Alliance faction because that infringes on the racial identity and faction integrity of the Blood Elves and the Horde faction. And as they literally said three or four times this week, faction integrity matters. The faction divide matters.

Yes, faction divide does matter. And High Elves pledge themselves to the Alliance while the Blood Elves pledge themselves to the Horde. So indeed that is very important to keep up. Alleria even used as an example of a High Elf by Ion. Would be wonderful to get her looks for playable Void Elves. Also, Void Elves merely existing also "infringe the racial identity and faction integrity of Blood Elves and Horde faction" because they're literally defecting Blood Elves who look exactly like Blood Elves with merely blue skin color. Same model/eyes/body type.

Don't see you making a big stink over that. Don't see a lot of those against High Elves making a big stink over Void Elves. Looks like as much as they try admonishing others for focusing on skin color, it appears to be important to them as well.

This debate ends the day Void Elf customization is previewed on the PTR, probably in just under two years. If, as expected, Blood Elves get the blue eyes (and glowing tattoos) and if Void Elf expanded customization is about making them actual Void Elves rather than the ersatz high elf result (which is still a Void Elf)...then that will be that. A pass on both races will have been made and Void Elves would not have gotten high elf like skins (although, once again, a void elf with fair skin will still have void elf racials and void elf lore. An ersatz high elf is still a Void Elf).

That will be game over day.

See, you assume that Allied Race customization is "just going to go deeper into their fantasy" but clearly what they've shown from the preview of just the Trolls alone we can see that is not the case.

They could've added a ton of extra things to trolls like more hairstyles/tattoos/earrings/tusk rings/etc all while keeping the blueish aesthetic. They did not.

Same for Undead, could've kept the pale dead skintones, they didn't and added grimy ones.

They are expanding the color palettes and using a wide net approach. Somehow thinking this will work differently for Allied Races is a big stretch because nothing said so far has embraced that, but what's been shown so far drives toward the opposite of that sentiment.

I don't expect to see VE previews in under 2 years because they said they're not doing AR atm. And just under 2 years from now would put us before a Blizzcon where it's not guaranteed they'll do Allied Race increased customization. But I mean I wouldn't complain.

But sure yes, if they make it clear then they're not ever going to add any semblance of what Alleria looks like to the Alliance sure it can be considered done.

Until then though, there's no harm to keep asking for what people want. A "hard 'No'/'Never'" hasn't yet been given. In fact, both Ion and Afrasiabi have said "it's always possible" which is what John Hight said about Wildhammer Dwarves when he was asked too.

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If horde get high elf options and alliance don't the sheer injustice of such will be fucking bullshit. The Blood Elves banished their blue eyed brethren for refusing Kael's gift! They are the traitors to their brethren. It's so bad that last I knew, any high elves spotted in Eversong is considered criminal. And hell, before Cataclysm, Nathanos led an assault on Quel'lithien Lodge in EPL. The Forsaken leaders' boy toy legit killed high elves. So if they join the horde, Blizz has lost their fucking minds.

Blood Elf getting Blue Eyes doesn't mean "High Elves went back to Horde". It's just a Blood Elf with blue eyes. Although I have no doubt people will RP those stories. But RP is RP, people can do whatever in RP.

Just like a Desert Troll is still gonna be referenced as if they grew up on an island, and are of relaxed temperament. And how a Blood troll apparently won't be insane.
Just like how a Wildhammer Dwarf is still gonna be referenced with mountain-y racials, heritage armor, jokes, etc.

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Also @Obelisk Kai , we already know Blood Elves are getting insane amounts of customization on top of what they already have, because they're insanely popular. So it looks like Blizzard is following suit with that given and making sure they get a lot of options.

Well remember too that Void Elves are also "the most popular Allied Race" and already have a lot of customization choices (apparently, I never checked). So looks like Void Elf players have lots of customization to look forward to when increased Allied Race customization comes.

[scubi666stacy]

If horde get high elf options and alliance don't the sheer injustice of such will be fucking bullshit. The Blood Elves banished their blue eyed brethren for refusing Kael's gift! They are the traitors to their brethren. It's so bad that last I knew, any high elves spotted in Eversong is considered criminal. And hell, before Cataclysm, Nathanos led an assault on Quel'lithien Lodge in EPL. The Forsaken leaders' boy toy legit killed high elves. So if they join the horde, Blizz has lost their fucking minds.

After the restoration of the Sunwell, all Thallassian Elves have been allowed to visit it. It's a small step to complete the journey back, if they don't want to assimilate into the ranks of the Void Elves or die out because they don't have the numbers to replenish and have to mate with humans or something like that.

[Strippling]

If Blizzard wanted money they'd make a High Elf AR for the Alliance with some tattoos or whatever to make people race change on the spot. They might be keeping it for some other drought, or they plan on teasing us forever, the latest tease being Anniversary event where you can see HE representing the Alliance population and BE for the Horde. Keep it up Blizz.

They're bronze dragons, not high elves... that is truly grasping at straws. You do realize that most dragons take the humanoid form of elves???

[Thalassian Bob]

If horde get high elf options and alliance don't the sheer injustice of such will be fucking bullshit. The Blood Elves banished their blue eyed brethren for refusing Kael's gift! They are the traitors to their brethren. It's so bad that last I knew, any high elves spotted in Eversong is considered criminal. And hell, before Cataclysm, Nathanos led an assault on Quel'lithien Lodge in EPL. The Forsaken leaders' boy toy legit killed high elves. So if they join the horde, Blizz has lost their fucking minds.

Lots of the high elves at the Allerian Stronghold were probably happy to return home to Quel'Thalas after the misunderstanding about Kael'thas' extremists not representing wider Thalassian society had been cleared up.

[Manariel]

After the restoration of the Sunwell, all Thallassian Elves have been allowed to visit it. It's a small step to complete the journey back, if they don't want to assimilate into the ranks of the Void Elves or die out because they don't have the numbers to replenish and have to mate with humans or something like that.

Void Elves may be unable to reproduce and their entire population fit in three or four tents and those also accomodate BE and HE visitors in Telogrus. Who seems to outnumber the VE.

It's rather safe to say that compared to that, the forces of the Silver Covenant are more than able to bieth new HE with ease. Furthermore, I find the idea that HE would have been admitted in Quel'danas during the Blood War (bleh) dubious, to say the least. Especially considering Rommath blatant disdain toward them. The Alleria incident may well have barred Quel'danas to all HE (which would be a good thing. BE are the ones unable to cope with the loss of the Sunwell, not HE).

Lots of the high elves at the Allerian Stronghold were probably happy to return home to Quel'Thalas after the misunderstanding about Kael'thas' extremists not representing wider Thalassian society had been cleared up.

Well, their leader is still staunchly loyal to the Alliance, in fact he is second in command of the Silver Covenant if I remember right. And most of those guys probably are too. They spent near to twenty/thirty years with the other Alliance forces, stranded on a dying world. It's bound to forge strong ties.

[Thalassian Bob]

Void Elves may be unable to reproduce and their entire population fit in three or four tents and those also accomodate BE and HE visitors in Telogrus. Who seems to outnumber the VE.

It's rather safe to say that compared to that, the forces of the Silver Covenant are more than able to bieth new HE with ease. Furthermore, I find the idea that HE would have been admitted in Quel'danas during the Blood War (bleh) dubious, to say the least. Especially considering Rommath blatant disdain toward them. The Alleria incident may well have barred Quel'danas to all HE (which would be a good thing. BE are the ones unable to cope with the loss of the Sunwell, not HE).

Tell that to the Quel'Lithien elves who all went Wretched when they tried to satiate their withdrawal with bogus artefacts.

Also, on high elf admission to Quel'Danas, I doubt members of the Silver Covenant were allowed near the Sunwell even during the most tepid moments of tensions between them and Silvermoon. They spent the entire Northrend campaign fighting directly against wider Thalassian interests. The Alliance-bearer of Quel'Delar needs the Ranger-General himself to vouch for their passage into the Sunwell complex as an exceptional case.

The type of high elves who are allowed to the Sunwell are probably Kirin Tor, Outland Allerian Farstriders and more neutral individuals like Gilveradin Sunchaser.

And regarding Silver Covenant numbers, I doubt there's more than a few hundred at most.

Well, their leader is still staunchly loyal to the Alliance, in fact he is second in command of the Silver Covenant if I remember right. And most of those guys probably are too. They spent near to twenty/thirty years with the other Alliance forces, stranded on a dying world. It's bound to forge strong ties.

Nah, I think Captain Auric Sunchaser, ranking officer for the Allerian Farstriders, only acts as "High Elf representative" within the Sunwell - probably because Lor'themar and Halduron have a history with him. As far as I am aware, he has no known affiliation with the Silver Covenant. The comedically named Island Expedition team 'Auric's Angels' implies that Auric might still be with the Alliance, but I wouldn't take it too seriously, since it's another cheap pun about Thalassian men being girly.

I don't doubt that the Allerian elves formed strong bonds with the other members of the Alliance while they served together in Outland, but remember that Thalassian elves live for centuries. A couple of decades fighting with the other races of the Alliance is nothing compared to potentially hundreds of years being among your own people in your own homeland. Once the bulk of Allerian high elves were able to learn that Silvermoon had not followed Kael down his dark path, I imagine many of them desired to return to Quel'Thalas. I'm sure many of them, like Alleria, were probably shocked to find out that the blood elves had allied themselves with the Horde. But, any of them who had the patience to hear why (unlike Alleria) would probably understand why, even if they didn't like the idea.

I like to think that, if blood elves do indeed get the option to have blue eyes, it will be because your character is one of the Allerian high elves who decided to come home once the Sunwell had been reclaimed.

[Issilian]

Yeah and Mag'har orcs ARE orcs.

End distinctly different, the Mag'Har stayed on a Dranor that was never corrupted by the legion, their blood as a species never tainted by the Fel. Where as the difference between Blood Elves and High Elves is that about 4 of them moved down the road to Stormwind.

[Ignaz]

End distinctly different, the Mag'Har stayed on a Dranor that was never corrupted by the legion, their blood as a species never tainted by the Fel. Where as the difference between Blood Elves and High Elves is that about 4 of them moved down the road to Stormwind.

Knowing that the high elves that left SM were 1% of the 10% elves that survived Arthas's attack, it would be silly to think that they were only 4.

In WC3 campaign there was an event in where kael took 15% of his most prominent elves which were cataloged as thousands. Taking the word thousands as a minimum amount, this would be 2000 elves (15%=2000e)

if we calculate with that minimum amount and taking that 10% of surviving elves now as 100%, we can say that the amount of elves that survived (mínimum=2000e) were around 13,333.33e. So, 1% (10% of 100%) would be 1,333.33e (high elves) and 9% (90% of 100%) 12,000.00e (blood elves).

Now, knowing that elves are a long-lived + '' wise '' race, we can speculate that its population growth rate is higher than the human one because they are not tied by human mortality standards according to age (80 - 100 years). What would show us an exponential growth in its population of double or triple in 9 - 15 years that have elapsed since its separation (unless the race has some fertility problema).