Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Lebanese Dude]

youa re implyng 3 things:

1) just because dark iron receive a treatment, you think HE will get the same
2) you are thinking they are in the same situation and have the same circumstances



not likely since allied race was not thing there



void elves only had something to do with the legion because they want it, they could do it with HE if they want it



3) implying more elves will be added. when there is no proof of that

Ok.... but you're both discussing probabilities here.

Frankly it's quite naive to believe that we're not getting more Allied Races down the line as they are a game-level feature not an expansion one. High Elves having sufficient context still qualify. We're almost saturated on the 2.0s (missing Worgen, Gnomes, Forsaken) and we'll be starting the 3.0s soon enough.

And yes they have the exact same situation as Dark Iron, having participated in many Alliance battles throughout WoW but never quite fully inducted into their political structure. Actually they're even more relevant. Dark Iron have only been allied to the Alliance since Cataclysm and have appeared like 2 times in minor roles. High Elves have been the major Alliance ally twice since vanilla and actually made many appearances in Legion.

Will this happen 100%? Maybe. But it's more reasonable to assume that it might happen (Probability > 0) than it never happening (Probability = 0).

[Traycor]

High elves that all dye their hair in a shade of blue in memory of something or other, and to counter the Red of the Horde allied Blood Elves?

Hmm... nice idea. The difficulty here would be that Night Elves and Void Elves have blue hair already.

[Garfurion]

From the wowheadBFA press event:

Could we end up recruiting old races as Allied Races, like the tuskaar?
Arguably Dark Iron Dwarves feel like a throwback. It comes down to what makes sense storywise. Nothing is off-limits.

source

[Traycor]

High elves that all dye their hair in a shade of blue in memory of something or other, and to counter the Red of the Horde allied Blood Elves?

Of course, I guess there's that High Elf with blue hair on the new Island Expeditions. That shade of light blue is very light and looks different from the offerings on Night Elves and Void Elves. And it matches with the Silver Covenant colors.

[Obelisk Kai]

From the wowheadBFA press event:

Could we end up recruiting old races as Allied Races, like the tuskaar?
Arguably Dark Iron Dwarves feel like a throwback. It comes down to what makes sense storywise. Nothing is off-limits.
]

Alliance High Elves are the ultimate throwback, but I am sure we will now see attempts at creating a fiction where the High Elves are more relevant to the story, one that will be dominated by the struggle between the light and the void, than the void elves.

Every word out of Blizzard's mouth just underlines again and again and again that playable Alliance High Elves isn't happening.

Oh and I fully expect people to use the 'Nothing is off-limits' remark to show that High Elves are back in play.

1.) High Elves were explicitly ruled out by the game director on the grounds they are already playable. I suspect Orcs are similarly not under consideration as a future Allied race, despite 'nothing being off limits'.
2.)They want future Allied races to make sense within the plot. As High Elves are already playable on the Horde, and as Void Elves have more story potential going forward (the main part of the quote), High Elves on the Alliance have no story space.

[Syegfryed]

Ok.... but you're both discussing probabilities here.

and logic, and the HE fans have both against then

Frankly it's quite naive to believe that we're not getting more Allied Races down the line as they are a game-level feature not an expansion one.

naive is to think we are gonna get another elf, just because people are spaming in the offiical foruns

High Elves having sufficient context still qualify.

no, they don't

We're almost saturated on the 2.0s (missing Worgen, Gnomes, Forsaken) and we'll be starting the 3.0s soon enough.

and no? we are gonna get new races instead of reskins like the vulpera, and we gonna get probably 2 races in each patch

And yes they have the exact same situation as Dark Iron,

if you ignore that Drk iron are not nearly extinct

having participated in many Alliance battles throughout WoW

exactly 4

but never quite fully inducted into their political structure.

except they did, this is what the elves fans babbling about, how they are loyal and are always alliance

Actually they're even more relevant. Dark Iron have only been allied to the Alliance since Cataclysm and have appeared like 2 times in minor roles. High Elves have been the major Alliance ally twice since vanilla and actually made many appearances in Legion.

and yet is dark iron that become playable, rly, you guys can't grasp logic? if elves are that much important and "relevant they should be the first allied race, and they would not create the VE

Will this happen 100%? Maybe. But it's more reasonable to assume that it might happen (Probability > 0) than it never happening (Probability = 0).

you need work on your probability friend

[Lebanese Dude]

Alliance High Elves are the ultimate throwback, but I am sure we will now see attempts at creating a fiction where the High Elves are more relevant to the story, one that will be dominated by the struggle between the light and the void, than the void elves.

Every word out of Blizzard's mouth just underlines again and again and again that playable Alliance High Elves isn't happening.

Oh and I fully expect people to use the 'Nothing is off-limits' remark to show that High Elves are back in play.

1.) High Elves were explicitly ruled out by the game director on the grounds they are already playable. I suspect Orcs are similarly not under consideration as a future Allied race, despite 'nothing being off limits'.
2.)They want future Allied races to make sense within the plot. As High Elves are already playable on the Horde, and as Void Elves have more story potential going forward (the main part of the quote), High Elves on the Alliance have no story space.

Oh dear lord this is getting pathetic.

They were never explicitly ruled out. They never said "WILL NOT HAPPEN". In the interview clearly meant to promote their current content, when someone asked if we will see High Elves RIGHT NOW, they said that we have two flavors of high elves that can be played right now. That could mean anything, from "no plans ever" to "not planned right now" to "seriously dude you trying to get me fired?".

Reading WAY too much into one quote from poor Ion (who previously mentioned High Elves as an example of a subrace btw), the same dude who said multiple things that were later reverted (unique druid forms etc... ).

And that was before ALL the deluge of feedback came in. Not to mention it was a hot mic.

And everything has story space. The rationalization is real. Contrasts aren't one dimensional and groups can explore multiple facets.

For example Humans have a rival in both Orcs and Forsaken.

Is there any reason why Blood Elves can't have two rivals in High Elves and Void Elves? High Elves have ALWAYS been their foil whether it was the Sunreavers or Farstriders. Blood Elves have NEVER been on the forefront without High Elves right there. There is no reason to assume this will stop because Void Elves randomly spawned out of nowhere.

In fact the existence of Umbric makes it very likely that Alleria's mentorship is just that. She's not their leader. Umbric is. It is just as likely to see High Elves continue to be the foil to Blood Elves in terms of land and principles (with Alleria acting as their contact with Void Elves), as Void Elves explore less mundane themes on Azeroth and beyond. Of course they'll fight with the Alliance and probably have some input when Azshara comes into play, and that's where their "Void" ties might be explored.

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naive is to think we are gonna get another elf,

Logic would have you separate the Kaldorei and Queldorei as two different races and not joined under the name "elf".

If "elf" is just "humanoid with pointy ears" then Orcs are Green Elves, Goblins are Short Green Elves, and Worgen are Furry Elves.

In fact, didn't Blizzard literally make fun of this on April Fool's day?

Kaldorei look as close to Zandalari as they do to Blood Elves. If your problem is "too many elves' then you might as well campaign vs Zandalari being the actual progenitors of elves, using the Night Elf skeleton, and differing from Night Elves in the same degree as Nightborne in having a unique skin/face map.

Oh let's also campaign vs Forsaken Blightcallers or even Dark Irons. Too many "robot mutants".

"Elf" is arbitrary a restriction AF. They don't view it that way. That's clear as day.

Not addressing the rest of your post. The seething bias makes it impossible to have a reasonable conversation with you and your ilk.

Nothing is off-limits. They just said it. There was no "except". Get over yourselves and move on to different topics. Pathetic.

[Syegfryed]

Logic would have you separate the Kaldorei and Queldorei as two different races and not joined under the name "elf".

why? they are all elves, we have 4, is more than enough

If "elf" is just "humanoid with pointy ears" then Orcs are Green Elves, Goblins are Short Green Elves, and Worgen are Furry Elves.

you don't know what an elf is, but are discussing elves?

Kaldorei look as close to Zandalari as they do to Blood Elves.

they actually don't

If your problem is "too many elves' then you might as well campaign vs Zandalari being the actual progenitors of elves, using the Night Elf skeleton, and differing from Night Elves in the same degree as Nightborne in having a unique skin/face map.

zandalari are TROLLS, not ELVES stop this mental gymnastic

Oh let's also campaign vs Forsaken Blightcallers or even Dark Irons. Too many "robot mutants".

what?

"Elf" is arbitrary a restriction AF.

it is not, i s how they call themselves, "elf" in phylogeny would be like "feline" different kind of elve and cats

Not addressing the rest of your post. The seething bias makes it impossible to have a reasonable conversation with you and your ilk.

claim bias when you are full of bias and saying nonsense in the entire post

Nothing is off-limits. They just said it. There was no "except". Get over yourselves and move on to different topics. Pathetic.

they just said blood elves are high elves, get over it

[Garfurion]

In the interview with wowhead Muffins said the following on a question about customization options added to existing race after Ion had said there wouldn't be any:

"Yeah so as anything on the WoW team the things that we announce and say at Blizzcon may change significantly over the course of the year and I think what we're finding is that we love the ability to add more player customization options. It's super cool and we found the players are responding very positively to it so we'd like to continue doing that although we don't have anything to announce quite yet and we would love to hear all your ideas. Please you know post them on the forums. Let us know what you'd like to see. Alright it's High Elves."

Source: https://youtu.be/HyDQF0SisAA around 4:40

Looks like we can expect more character customization options for older races and the devs acknowledge that they are aware of the requests for High Elves.

[Obelisk Kai]

Nothing is off-limits. They just said it. There was no "except". Get over yourselves and move on to different topics. Pathetic.

I had a whole reply to this typed up and my browser crashed. Sad. Still, I'll respond to this most important point.

Green Orcs are off limits as they are already in the game.

Darkspear Trolls are off limits as they are already in the game.

And High Elves are off limit because, as stated by Ion in an interview where he was directly asked and confidently answered, they are already in the game as Blood Elves.

So nothing is off-limits as long as you use your common sense and stop projecting what you want onto what they say...as you did where you tried to use the 2014 interview as evidence whilst trying to dismiss the 2017 interview (an easily refutable point. 2014 was four years ago, 2017 within the past year. What was said in 2017 is more recent and trustworthy than what was said in 2014).

High Elves are in game, they aren't on the faction you want them to be and that's pretty much the end of that.

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In the interview with wowhead Muffins said the following on a question about customization options added to existing race after Ion had said there wouldn't be any:

"Yeah so as anything on the WoW team the things that we announce and say at Blizzcon may change significantly over the course of the year and I think what we're finding is that we love the ability to add more player customization options. It's super cool and we found the players are responding very positively to it so we'd like to continue doing that although we don't have anything to announce quite yet and we would love to hear all your ideas. Please you know post them on the forums. Let us know what you'd like to see. Alright it's High Elves."

Source: https://youtu.be/HyDQF0SisAA around 4:40

Looks like we can expect more character customization options for older races and the devs acknowledge that they are aware of the requests for High Elves.

They've always been aware of the demand. That they acknowledged that they can see what is on their own forums means nothing either way.

And if you are thinking they WOULDN'T tweak the noses of High Elf fans, I can remind you the Void Elf sillies do that.

[Lebanese Dude]

^ this will never stop being comedy gold lmao

[Deleted]

zandalari are TROLLS, not ELVES stop this mental gymnastic

Elves are literally just trolls without tusks. Night Elves are the middle stage between Zandalari and High/Blood Elves.

They're all the damn same species. Pretending they're something different on account of the name used is ridiculous.

[FlubberPuddy]

They've always been aware of the demand. That they acknowledged that they can see what is on their own forums means nothing either way.

And if you are thinking they WOULDN'T tweak the noses of High Elf fans, I can remind you the Void Elf sillies do that.

Your quips mean nothing now, and your denial is really starting to show. Muffinus clearly stated that

As with anything with the WoW team, the things that we announce and say at Blizzcon may change significantly over the course of the year.

Then he later says he's found players have been responding very positively to the added character customization (which they love doing themselves btw) and that they'd like to continue doing it although nothing to announce "quite yet" and tell the players (this is the 2nd time) they'd love to hear all of our ideas and to please post them on the forums to let them know what we'd like to see.

Then he looks and points at the camera and says,

It's High Elves

So quite clearly he has negated what Ion said at this past Blizzcon and says significant changes are the norm over the course of the year. Then specifically mentioned High Elves - that's a straight tease similar to mag'har orcs if I've ever seen one.

High Elves are now one step closer to being playable, to deny they won't happen anymore after Muffinus just stated whatever said at Blizzcon is open to changing significantly. At this point anyone thinking Ion's "Spoilers" quote is still 100% true is now in denial themselves. Muffinus quite clearly picked out High Elves for a reason.

inb4 "they picked em to continue trolling haHAA"

[Syegfryed]

Elves are literally just trolls without tusks.

you actually don't know what literally mean right?

Night Elves are the middle stage between Zandalari and High/Blood Elves.

except they are not, you lack of knowledge but this subject is becoming cringe

They're all the damn same species. Pretending they're something different on account of the name used is ridiculous.

is the same thing to say humans are same specie of monkeys,

google what a specie is, then back here

Elves are descent of trolls, they changed, they become another damn specie trough years, this is how speciation work

pretend trolls are the same specie of elves is retarded

[Syegfryed]

Your quips mean nothing now, and your denial is really starting to show. Muffinus clearly stated that

Then he later says he's found players have been responding very positively to the added character customization (which they love doing themselves btw) and that they'd like to continue doing it although nothing to announce "quite yet" and tell the players (this is the 2nd time) they'd love to hear all of our ideas and to please post them on the forums to let them know what we'd like to see.

Then he looks and points at the camera and says,

So quite clearly he has negated what Ion said at this past Blizzcon and says significant changes are the norm over the course of the year. Then specifically mentioned High Elves - that's a straight tease similar to mag'har orcs if I've ever seen one.

High Elves are now one step closer to being playable, to deny they won't happen anymore after Muffinus just stated whatever said at Blizzcon is open to changing significantly. At this point anyone thinking Ion's "Spoilers" quote is still 100% true is now in denial themselves. Muffinus quite clearly picked out High Elves for a reason.

inb4 "they picked em to continue trolling haHAA"

LOOL dude, he ask to players to give suggestion about customization for curren traces in the foruns and then mock The HE threads, cause they are spamming the hell out of there and you suddenly think he automatically contradict Ion and mean HE will be an allied Race

jesus man, this mental gymnstic is not normal , is not even funny anymore

wait for the blue Blood elf eye color

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i wonder if this thread will ever die, everyone on each side will never admit defeat.

this will actually die when wow die or HE become playable, sadly

even i they say ll HE Died or become Void elf, and come to public ( again) and said another no, it will not end

[protip]

I think part of the hangup for high elf fans is that there are high elves as a race, which includes blood elves, and High Elves as a political faction, which hasn't existed outside of the Silver Covenant since the elves of Quel'thalas chose the name Blood Elf. Different colored eyes are well known to be there for gameplay reasons only, and having a tan makes for a nice touch for the race that starts on Sunstrider Isle, but there is no lore explanation for a biological difference.

My understanding of the lore that led to the Silver Covenant has always been that when Silvermoon joined the Horde, the elves living in Dalaran had to choose between their families and their human friends. They were not present for the destruction of Silvermoon, and perhaps didn't understand why the blood elves would join the Horde, because their relationship with humans in Dalaran was much friendlier than the majority of humans were to the elves of Silvermoon. Aside from a few scattered individuals who show up as quest givers etc., the only high elves to cut ties to Silvermoon were the Silver Covenant, who were living in a city where elves and humans lived in harmony. Their counterparts, the Sunreavers, chose to support their families. The Silver Covenant, isolated from their homeland by their own choices, has existed only in Dalaran since the Third War.

To me, at least, the Silver Covenant are no different from the Sunreavers except for their loyalties. There is no culture, no physical differences, no story beyond the fact that some elves in Dalaran preferred to stay with their human allies rather than to remain loyal to their homeland. That's partially headcanon, and I accept the skepticism that will come with that, but from what I know, the high elves of the Silver Covenant are just blood elves who wanted to stay in Dalaran. They have reason to be well integrated into human society, and would then just be blood elves with human culture.

Neither their appearance nor their culture are unique, and given their small numbers and lack of separation from humans, the logical conclusion would be that both their biological and cultural identities would become more and more human over time. I think that human/elf mix could be reasonably translated into a half elf race, which would capture the essence of the Alliance high elves' future and of the community they are a part of in Dalaran. That would avoid the problem of duplicating a race that has been unique to the Horde since 2007 onto the Alliance. It would also avoid the issue of adding even more elves to the game, although it pushes the limits on that, to be sure.

I will never support the dilution of faction identity, because it is a core feature of WoW that has made the game more enjoyable for me. It is also the most well known aspect of the game; if a new player finally decides to see what the Horde and the Alliance are all about and sees that it's just a toggle, it means nothing. Blizzard should do everything they can to keep factions unique.

[Ithekro]

The Silver Covenant is not the only group of High Elves in the Alliance. They are just the most visible ones in the story. There are also Alliance High Elves in Outland (Sons of Lothar survivors), High Elves in Stormwind. High Elves in Loch Modan. As well as those in Dalaran or operating out of Dalaran. There use to be some in the Eastern Plaguelands, but those have since fallen. There are others around the Alliance in small numbers. Generally in large military groups you will find a few High Elf casters or archers.

[Obelisk Kai]

Your quips mean nothing now, and your denial is really starting to show. Muffinus clearly stated that

Then he later says he's found players have been responding very positively to the added character customization (which they love doing themselves btw) and that they'd like to continue doing it although nothing to announce "quite yet" and tell the players (this is the 2nd time) they'd love to hear all of our ideas and to please post them on the forums to let them know what we'd like to see.

Then he looks and points at the camera and says,

So quite clearly he has negated what Ion said at this past Blizzcon and says significant changes are the norm over the course of the year. Then specifically mentioned High Elves - that's a straight tease similar to mag'har orcs if I've ever seen one.

High Elves are now one step closer to being playable, to deny they won't happen anymore after Muffinus just stated whatever said at Blizzcon is open to changing significantly. At this point anyone thinking Ion's "Spoilers" quote is still 100% true is now in denial themselves. Muffinus quite clearly picked out High Elves for a reason.

inb4 "they picked em to continue trolling haHAA"

Look, I'm going to keep this simple.

1.) The question posed to Muffinus was not about new allied races, but extra customization. Pro High Elfers have a tendency to remove context from official statements on High Elves to muddy the waters regarding the answers.

2.) He was joking.

Now you are free to use the Muffinus 'quote' if you wish, but I don't see how using a joke is going to help your case any. It reeks of desperation for ANY positive reinforcement of your case and delusion. Delusion in that, and this bears repeating, HE. WAS. JOKING.

This was nothing more than a soft jab at the High Elf spam on the forums. If you want to interpret that as being the harbinger of all your High Elf dreams, go for it, but don't expect it to be treated by anyone else as other than what it is, a joke.

If Blizzard decides to retcon their stated belief that Blood Elves are High Elves and are already playable, it is not going to be revealed in a cheap gag by Jeremy Feasal.

[protip]

The Silver Covenant is not the only group of High Elves in the Alliance. They are just the most visible ones in the story. There are also Alliance High Elves in Outland (Sons of Lothar survivors), High Elves in Stormwind. High Elves in Loch Modan. As well as those in Dalaran or operating out of Dalaran. There use to be some in the Eastern Plaguelands, but those have since fallen. There are others around the Alliance in small numbers. Generally in large military groups you will find a few High Elf casters or archers.

Small groups and scattered individuals, I can count 3 in Stormwind, and one of them comes from the Silver Covenant. We also know the RPG population statistics are not canon. As for Outland, they just seem to a few remnants from the Alliance expedition. I don't think they're significant; they have little in common, and are extremely few in number. As for those in Dalaran, they may or may not be a part of the Silver Covenant, but their story is the same; they are forced to choose between humans and their homeland. Dalaran's formerly cooperative society fractured, and for whatever reasons some elves decided to ally with the humans. They remain members of a mixed human/elf society, and the Alliance aligned group is known for mingling with humans.

The only significant group of high elves' only defining feature is their relationship with humans. Why not continue on that path with half elves? It is a more honest representation of the high elf community of Dalaran, and has far fewer problems than pure high elves, regardless of how you might implement them. No retcons, no plot holes, no faction crossovers, no content rehashing, and a somewhat reasonable space for Blizzard to be creative.

[Obelisk Kai]

Small groups and scattered individuals, I can count 3 in Stormwind, and one of them comes from the Silver Covenant. We also know the RPG population statistics are not canon. As for Outland, they just seem to a few remnants from the Alliance expedition. I don't think they're significant; they have little in common, and are extremely few in number. As for those in Dalaran, they may or may not be a part of the Silver Covenant, but their story is the same; they are forced to choose between humans and their homeland. Dalaran's formerly cooperative society fractured, and for whatever reasons some elves decided to ally with the humans. They remain members of a mixed human/elf society, and the Alliance aligned group is known for mingling with humans.

The only significant group of high elves' only defining feature is their relationship with humans. Why not continue on that path with half elves? It is a more honest representation of the high elf community of Dalaran, and has far fewer problems than pure high elves, regardless of how you might implement them. No retcons, no plot holes, no faction crossovers, no content rehashing, and a somewhat reasonable space for Blizzard to be creative.

For a group who continually say the population doesn't matter, they do seem to go out of their way to try and find new populations of Alliance High Elves...although when they do they tend to imagine it being twenty times greater than it actually is. Quel'Danil is the worst offender here, you leave it to some and they describe Quel'Danil as almost a shining city full to the brim of Alliance loving High Elves.

Quel'Danil is a hut. It's a nice hut as huts go, but it's still a hut. It's emblematic of the gap between how the High Elves are portrayed and how the pro High Elfers want them to be portrayed.

On the other hand, I would have no objection to Half Elves as an Allied race. Human model base somewhat slimmed down as the Nightborne were, pointy ears, blue eyes.
I think if Traycor had done a Half Elf thread rather than another dead end High Elf one, it would have been vastly more interesting.