1. #13221
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    that is literally twisting things by technically, that you even need to put quotation marks,its a reach trying to find a "hole in the rules" to get what you want.
    There is no "twisting things" in my post, only statements of facts. "Playable race" does not equal "race". That is an indisputable fact. The Alliance high elf race is not playable.

    Also: another evidence that you're here to argue in bad faith: parroting "high elves are already playable" only shows how you're not here to have a civil discussion, but to stir up people.

  2. #13222
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    Quote Originally Posted by protip View Post
    the idea that the requests for Alliance high elves would stop because of anything that the Horde got is definitely wrong.
    And yet despite how obvious it is, there's already people here showing it's apparently not.

  3. #13223
    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    Why don't they just add a questline to the Void Elves (like Night Elf Night Warrior) to purify yourself? Then you like go visit some other High Elves and they give you some facepaint and you're all good to go.
    Cause visually it'll just be making void elves more like blood elves, when blizzard very intentionally made them visually distinct.
    Blood elves are our high elves - Chris Metzen

  4. #13224
    Quote Originally Posted by dontrelleroosevelt View Post
    Who said I'm speaking for all of you? Wildhammer Dwarves ain't happenin'. There's no use in putting stock in High Elves at this point.
    By stating that "the customization will suffice" you're then "speaking for us" as if those customization options will be enough for us. They won't.

  5. #13225
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    By stating that "the customization will suffice" you're then "speaking for us" as if those customization options will be enough for us. They won't.
    Like it or not that's all you're going to get. All things considered that's already more than enough. Wanna play High elves, u can pick from either Blood or Void.

  6. #13226
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    More evidence that people who wanna play Alliance High Elves will never find that on Blood Elves.

    https://www.wowhead.com/news=296230/...-nzoth-players

    Dark Ranger Velonara

    With Sylvanas abandoning the Horde after the Fourth War, the loyalty of her Dark Rangers has been called into question. Here Dark Ranger Velonara, one of the most prominent Dark Rangers in WoW's history, says that she stand with the Horde. Earlier in Battle for Azeroth, we datamined hints of a Velonara questline, which were never implemented.

    I see you remained in Orgrimmar.
    We dark rangers were fiercely loyal to Sylvanas. We trusted her... followed her commands.
    It is clear that our loyalty was never truly reciprocated.
    Some of my sisters and brothers have chosen to remain at the Dark Lady's side. I, and many others, have not.
    <Velonara's expression becomes steely. Determined.>
    I refuse to be a slave to this torment.
    Both the sin'dorei and Forsaken are my kin. I stand with them, and with the Horde.


    Hence, people should stop telling others to go play Horde Elves. Has nothing to do with wanting an Alliance Elf.

  7. #13227
    Field Marshal bdlovelace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shefu View Post
    Like it or not that's all you're going to get. All things considered that's already more than enough. Wanna play High elves, u can pick from either Blood or Void.
    it will be interesting what happens once blood elves get updated customization to reflect where they should be lorewise currently. if the argument shifts to de-voiding void elves it would prove it was about the aesthetics and not lore after all

  8. #13228
    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    More evidence that people who wanna play Alliance High Elves will never find that on Blood Elves.

    https://www.wowhead.com/news=296230/...-nzoth-players

    Dark Ranger Velonara

    With Sylvanas abandoning the Horde after the Fourth War, the loyalty of her Dark Rangers has been called into question. Here Dark Ranger Velonara, one of the most prominent Dark Rangers in WoW's history, says that she stand with the Horde. Earlier in Battle for Azeroth, we datamined hints of a Velonara questline, which were never implemented.

    I see you remained in Orgrimmar.
    We dark rangers were fiercely loyal to Sylvanas. We trusted her... followed her commands.
    It is clear that our loyalty was never truly reciprocated.
    Some of my sisters and brothers have chosen to remain at the Dark Lady's side. I, and many others, have not.
    <Velonara's expression becomes steely. Determined.>
    I refuse to be a slave to this torment.
    Both the sin'dorei and Forsaken are my kin. I stand with them, and with the Horde.


    Hence, people should stop telling others to go play Horde Elves. Has nothing to do with wanting an Alliance Elf.
    You do realize that Dark Ranger Velonara died as a "high elf", not a "blood elf". Yet she considers the blood elves her people, almost as if they're the same race... a race which is already playable.
    Blood elves are our high elves - Chris Metzen

  9. #13229
    Quote Originally Posted by bdlovelace View Post
    it will be interesting what happens once blood elves get updated customization to reflect where they should be lorewise currently. if the argument shifts to de-voiding void elves it would prove it was about the aesthetics and not lore after all
    Void Elves are Blood Elves, not High Elves. And with their skin condition, it's pretty obvious that they can't be High Elves in those conditions. Like a Green orc player could pretend that his character was a Mag'har, but it was never the same thing hs having a Mag'har character. So yes, aesthetic plays a part, in equal measure with lore and being part of the Alliance.

    And even then, I wouldn't mind at all if Blizzard remade their model based on a Nightfallen skeleton to give them a gaunter look, which would fit their lore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by protip View Post
    Blue eyes for blood elves would only reinforce the idea that blood elves are high elves. There are still some people who argue that they're not, and that argument would be pretty well shut down, so I do think it's relevant, but the idea that the requests for Alliance high elves would stop because of anything that the Horde got is definitely wrong.
    They were High Elves. They are not anymore. How hard can it be to understand for so many people to not get it ? High Elves are part of the Alliance, their leader is Vereesa, their main organization is the Silver Covenant, and they also lives around Quel'Danil lodge in the Hinterlands. And that's it.
    Last edited by Manariel; 2019-11-14 at 05:40 AM.

  10. #13230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strippling View Post
    You do realize that Dark Ranger Velonara died as a "high elf", not a "blood elf". Yet she considers the blood elves her people, almost as if they're the same race... a race which is already playable.
    Sin'dorei has specific meaning. Look that up if you didn't realize that.

    It doesn't matter what someone was, it matters what they are now.

    Otherwise I'd like to see you go on to argue that Void Elves should be on Horde as repeatedly as you try to repeat yourself while bringing nothing new to this discussion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Manariel View Post
    And even then, I wouldn't mind at all if Blizzard remade their model based on a Nightfallen skeleton to give them a gaunter look, which would fit their lore.
    I would actually enjoy this very much too.

  11. #13231
    Quote Originally Posted by Manariel View Post
    Void Elves are Blood Elves, not High Elves. And with their skin condition, it's pretty obvious that they can't be High Elves in those conditions. Like a Green orc player could pretend that his character was a Mag'har, but it was never the same thing hs having a Mag'har character. So yes, aesthetic plays a part, in equal measure with lore and being part of the Alliance.

    And even then, I wouldn't mind at all if Blizzard remade their model based on a Nightfallen skeleton to give them a gaunter look, which would fit their lore.

    - - - Updated - - -



    They were High Elves. They are not anymore. How hard can it be to understand for so many people to not get it ? High Elves are part of the Alliance, their leader is Vereesa, their main organization is the Silver Covenant, and they also lives around Quel'Danil lodge in the Hinterlands. And that's it.

    Thank you so much for saying this! All of it, the mag'har example and that aesthetics play equally important part to being a part of the Alliance! I wish more people would understand this!

    I always loved the example of mag'har as Horde getting what they asked for, while Alliance not getting what they asked for. We asked specifically for blue-eyed, pale/human-skinned, golden/gray haired High elves on Alliance, and instead we got... another purple elf. There are three of them now. Who the hell asked for yet another kind of purple elf?! Imagine, for a moment, if Blizzard introduced a race of purple orcs, called them "void mag'har", and said: "Hey, you guys asked for mag'har, well here they are! They are tangentially related to the brown-skinned mag'har you asked for! What more could you want?" Because THAT'S what happened with void elves, when people for asking for specifically High elves on Alliance!

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    Also, here's an idea: just make blood elves neutral like pandaren and add blue eyes customization option. Now, I know, I know, "Blizzard said they will never make another neutral race", but remember Blizzard saying "you think you do, but you don't" about vanilla servers? I'm pretty sure you do. And now we have WoW Classic. So it's not like anything Blizzard says is final. Giving blood elves blue eye customization and making them neutral would at least be a compromise, which void elves weren't, don't at me. And Silvermoon could be a contested city, not unlike Underbelly area in Dalaran. If you have PvP on, you can PvP there (but also, be ready for guards to attack you if you're in their aggro radius). But if you don't have PvP on, you can just roleplay to your heart's content and just walk around the city like you always did. Bottom line: this is a made-up world. All the arguments about "why high elves aren't possible" are moot, because Blizzard can retcon anything, just like they did with void elves and a whole lot of other stuff. What is important is whether people want something or not, and I think the 693 pages of this thread are pretty telling about the fact that people still want High Elves on Alliance.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Another thing -- if you make blood elves a neutral race, you can now say "well, The Silver Covenant and other high elves now have joined their brothers and sisters in Sivermoon while remaining loyal to Alliance, so now high elves are factually blood elves by name as well", so now there are no more high elves, there are only blood elves, but they can join any side they want. This would remedy the problem that there are still high elven NPC's in the game, which contradicts Blizzard's position that high elves=blood elves, because now all of them would in fact be blood elves.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also also, if they turn all high elves into blood elves, they wouldn't need to make new heritage armor! Just add a blue tint, like with mag'har heritage armor, and you're done!

  12. #13232
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdlovelace View Post
    it will be interesting what happens once blood elves get updated customization to reflect where they should be lorewise currently. if the argument shifts to de-voiding void elves it would prove it was about the aesthetics and not lore after all
    I think the argument that this demand is driven by lore rather than aesthetics was lost a long time ago. Nobody really believes this is a lore driven demand. The opponents of the movement don't believe it,the disinterested majority among forum-goers (themselves a tiny minority of the playerbase) who are vaguely aware of the high elf issue don't believe it and the developers believe it because when Ion rejected high elves as an Allied race candidate he defined the rejection in terms of aesthetics. Any pro High Elfer who has argued in favour of a customization alternative on Void Elves proves that they don't believe it.

    Are there some pro High Elfers in it for the lore? Sure there are. They are the convenient fig leaf for the majority who are driven by the looks rather than the lore though, as arguing you want something because of lore has a greater gravitas to it than arguing you want something because of looks.

    In truth, the shift from a demand for High Elves as an allied race to 'de-voiding' Void Elves seems to be subtly occurring as the Allied race cycle for BFA closes and the prospect of any new allied lies several years in the future. That Blizzard would do something to 'de-void' Void Elves is possible. We could end up with a monkey paw result, as the images of void mottled skin linked by Tenebra have suggested as potential outcomes. Or they could go the whole hog and add those flawless skins to Void Elves. Problem is, accepting that as a solution proves that it was about the aesthetics and not the lore, as that is still a Void Elf, not a true High Elf.

    A Void Elf customization pass is still several years away though. It will be deep in Shadowlands patch cycle before we see that. The Blood Elf customization pass will come much sooner, but it is still some distance away.

    Which is why this topic continuing is a little mystifying right now. There is no longer any prospect of a High Elf Allied race, and so there's nothing much to talk about until the Blood Elf customization pass resolves the blue eyes issue.
    Last edited by Obelisk Kai; 2019-11-14 at 01:41 PM.

  13. #13233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowlands-is-fake View Post
    The amount of elven races currently in the game doesn't matter. Who gives a crap if there's fifty more orc races, or eleven new undead? Let it happen. More content is more content. It's not like one additional elven race - and a long-requested fan-favourite at that - would detract anything from the rest of the game.

    Just give players some damn High Elves and let it be settled.
    Very true point. And actually since a damn skin coloration is apparently enough to be considered its own race (through evidence of Ion saying eye color isn’t enough, and that we have specific skin tones on LFD, Mag’har, Void Elves, and Nightborne) then essentially with the revealed 3 skin colors for darkspears (and more coming) there’s going to be 5+ types of trolls now, 5+ types of humans, 5+ dwarves, 5+ types of undead.

    So actually 4 Elves doesn’t matter. Because soon they’ll be the minority.

    Again, on the basis that skin color is apparently enough to make something its own race.

  14. #13234
    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    Here is a bit of confirmation that AR are most likely going to get future customization.


    "At this time" and not a 'Allied Races have a specific look that we want to preserve' or anything of the sort.

    https://www.wowhead.com/news=296035/...ing-pathfinder

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, from same link. Here's confirmation that there's no lore explanation for the new customization looks.
    Ill add that the the bucket of blizzards "at this time" stuff they never revisit then.

    "at this time" us as much a blizz meme as
    "soon tm".

    There standard pr reply's. This is the one you give when you hadn't considered it, don't care atm and arn't likely to do it the future but you know if you say something more than "at this time" a portion of the cummunt / audience will get pissy.

    I do it all the time at work.

    Some dude : "Are you thinking of adding this feature?"

    Me : "I'm not currently planing to add that feature at this time"

    Translation : "you're ideas fucking dumb/waste of time, I'm never gonna add it, I don't care, why are you in my office?"

  15. #13235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Which is why this topic continuing is a little mystifying right now. There is no longer any prospect of a High Elf Allied race, and so there's nothing much to talk about until the Blood Elf customization pass resolves the blue eyes issue.
    I’m surprised it’s mystifying to you.

    Let me explain it again: whatever Blood Elves doesn’t have anything to do with people who want the option of playing an Alliance High Elf.

    Whether the reasoning was lore or looks doesn’t even matter, there’s not some crazy lore explanation that is required for a race to become a playable option, Void Elves prove that. Vulpera prove that, Mechagnomes prove that.

    If you can’t understand what I’m saying with those examples let me put it plainly: people just want them. That’s it. Nothing more is needed.

    Just like how there are people who post that they want Blue Eyes on Blood Elves just to spite/trigger High Elf fans there are also people that want that customization for looks reasons and there are also those that want it because they don’t care about being a blood elf but have wanted to be a high elf too, and some just want the look.

    It doesn’t matter that a group has varying opinions on why collectively they want something. People who try to point that out as some kind of detriment to the request are being incredibly obtuse.

    With a game as big as WoW you’re almost never going to have 100% or even 60% agreement on a majority of the additions or changes to the game.

    That’s not an issue that’s so noteworthy it gets stuff from being implemented. Ion said it himself, in the context of Pathfinder, if there’s a little bit of annoyance on a decision but majority are okay with it then they’re okay with that.

    Except the High Elf request has exploded and even those that play their Void Elves want High Elf customization added. Void Elves, the most popular Allied Race as some like to tout them. And we see the most popular things in WoW get the most love.

    So we’ll have to see where they go once it’s time for Void Elves to receive customization updates.

  16. #13236
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    There is no "twisting things" in my post, only statements of facts. "Playable race" does not equal "race". That is an indisputable fact. The Alliance high elf race is not playable.
    It does equal that, you don't have other human kingdom or other orc clan "race playable", but you still does have this race playable, and until that happen, your point is not a fact, but moot.

    what is an indisputably fact is that the high elf race is already playable, on horde, the group of the alliance is not, but they are not another race. like i said, if even Sand and dark trolls and Wildhammer dwaves will come but as customization and not as "playable race" its delusion to think HE will come as "playable race"

    Also: another evidence that you're here to argue in bad faith: parroting "high elves are already playable" only shows how you're not here to have a civil discussion, but to stir up people.
    if im "parroting" they are already playable, its because you, in bad faith are parroting they are not because "technically" and because "reasons" and somehow, race don't mean race, if you need to stretch that far, it will not work anyway

    in short to end this, when they add another human kingdom, exactly the same as the already playable humans, under the banner of "another playable race" you will have evidence to support this.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by romskee1 View Post
    Thank you so much for saying this! All of it, the mag'har example and that aesthetics play equally important part to being a part of the Alliance! I wish more people would understand this!

    I always loved the example of mag'har as Horde getting what they asked for, while Alliance not getting what they asked for. We asked specifically for blue-eyed, pale/human-skinned, golden/gray haired High elves on Alliance, and instead we got... another purple elf.
    you can think a bit of why they get and why you don't get right? maghar are not on the alliance with other eye color, HE was on the horde with other eye color.

    There are three of them now. Who the hell asked for yet another kind of purple elf?! Imagine, for a moment, if Blizzard introduced a race of purple orcs, called them "void mag'har", and said: "Hey, you guys asked for mag'har, well here they are! They are tangentially related to the brown-skinned mag'har you asked for! What more could you want?" Because THAT'S what happened with void elves, when people for asking for specifically High elves on Alliance!
    i mean, if the maghar were already on the alliance yes, we should get that

    Also, here's an idea: just make blood elves neutral like pandaren and add blue eyes customization option
    and what race of the alliance you suggest to go neutral too? or you only want that with the horde races?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    Again, on the basis that skin color is apparently enough to make something its own race.
    in what base? darkiron dwarf, lfd, maghar ve and nightborne are not just "skin color", the other colors are coming for the normal races not as a entire new race, and they already said allied races are not getting those customization right now.
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2019-11-14 at 02:23 PM.

  17. #13237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    snip
    Like I said before, you've got to be delusional if you think they won't offer the same upgrade to customization to Allied Races in the future. It's reasonable they're only doing the original races because 1) They said it'll be available at SL launch, no unlocks required 2) That means they have a finite amount of time to get that work done.

    They also stated that this is the beginning of a larger overhaul for more customization in the future, again, because they can only do so much within a time constraint (SL launch).

    That you talk as if they could do it all for every race that's playable now just shows you don't understand the basic concept of time constraints and limited resources.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    in what base? darkiron dwarf, lfd, maghar ve and nightborne are not just "skin color", the other colors are coming for the normal races not as a entire new race, and they already said allied races are not getting those customization right now.
    I just explained it, Ion said eye color isn't enough, but apparently skin color is. They are just "skin color" because that's what he focused on. Stuff like racials/mounts/starting zone etc have already been provided for High Elves and proved can be different from existing playable races.

    So yeah, Ion focused on the skin color as much as some detractors say High Elf fans do.

    And that Wildhammer are coming as extra customization options, because they share the same skin tones as Bronzebeards, just proves it even more.

  18. #13238
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    I just explained it, Ion said eye color isn't enough, but apparently skin color is. They are just "skin color" because that's what he focused on. Stuff like racials/mounts/starting zone etc have already been provided for High Elves and proved can be different from existing playable races.

    So yeah, Ion focused on the skin color as much as some detractors say High Elf fans do.

    And that Wildhammer are coming as extra customization options, because they share the same skin tones as Bronzebeards, just proves it even more.
    then explain sand trolls and dark trolls who have entirely different skin colors and potentially different subraces of trolls coming as customization too?

    the answer is: skin color alone is also not enough.

  19. #13239
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post

    the answer is: skin color alone is also not enough.
    Mag'har? Dark Iron Dwarves? Nightborne?

    Lightforged don't even have very different skin colors, merely body tattoos and a mark on their forehead.

    Apparently runes on your body are enough to make you a different race.

    Void Elves just have different hair colors. They're all different tones of purples with a goth vibe.

    Highmountain Tauren just have antlers.

    Zandalari have dinosaur scale skin.

    Kul Tirans are just fat.

    - - - Updated - - -

    BTW

    Playing through the Suramar Insurrection questline again, noticed this quest where Elisande shows up and adressed all of the Elf races.




    Vereesa was there, as a representative of the High Elves, leading other High Elves into battle.

    Elisande says: Quel'dorei? You are peasants playing at nobility, all too willing to mingle with lesser races that dilute your bloodline. You are unworthy of the name high elves.
    Elisande says: Sin'dorei? Of all the elves, I thought you might understand the choice I made to save my people. Instead, you ally with misfits and monsters.
    Elisande clearly makes a distinction between High Elves and Blood Elves and Blizzard wanted to show that these two groups are very different.

    This happened just an expansion ago in Legion. It's right around the corner. So comments like those made by Ion make me think he's either ignorant of the way that the story people view these two groups, or he did it intentionally to mislead people. In the same way that when the Mists of Pandaria trademark leaked Tom Chilton said that they have historically only used Pandaren for silly things so it's unlikely they'd be used like this, as the theme of an expansion.

  20. #13240
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    It does equal that, you don't have other human kingdom or other orc clan "race playable", but you still does have this race playable, and until that happen, your point is not a fact, but moot.
    Mag'har and Kul'tiras.

    what is an indisputably fact is that the high elf race is already playable, on horde, the group of the alliance is not, but they are not another race.
    They are a different race anywhere the game mechanics are concerned.

    if im "parroting" they are already playable, its because you, in bad faith are parroting they are not because "technically" and because "reasons" and somehow, race don't mean race, if you need to stretch that far, it will not work anyway
    It's not "bad faith" because it's the gist of what people here want: they want to play as a race that has been part of the Alliance for the longest time. Which is why saying "the race is playable on the Horde" has zero value in this discussion since no one here wants to play on the Horde. We want an Alliance race. Not a Horde race.

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