Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Astranea]

you think it somehow make sense put white skin, blue eyes nd blond hair to night elves? i don't think people would be rlly ok with that.

Hmm, I thought I already mentioned all of this, but maybe you did not feel like reading it?

Let me try again:

• Skin: = the night elves already have some flesh colored skins, and could have more shades adding slight genetic variation without breaking the lore.
• Tattoos = the night elves already have face tattoos, they just need to be separated from the hair customization
• Hair colors = the night elves can already sport white hair, and there is no reason why they could not dye their hair brown or whatever other color, seen they go to the same barber shops as any other Alliance race, unless Goblins refuse to do that for money? In fact, I think that restrictions on hair colors should be just lifted for every race, giving a broad palette to just everyone. We have that IRL too after all, and hair dyes where used by human beings as early as the Bronze Age! To make hair blond (bleaching), red (earths) and black (dye). It's just that easy.

The only tricky bit MAY be the blue eyes, but then again, Blizzard is already working on editing the eyes and recently removed the bright glow making pupils distinguishable for other races. Considering the night elves have blue hair and blue skin as typical traits, I would not be surprised if they could also sport some light blue or ice grey pupils underneath the glow, as these seem to be their most typical colors (plus green and purple of course).

Not breaking the lore, not adding anything that would be unfeasible as a very regular night elf trait or is already there in some very similar form. Simply enhancing the quality of the fantasy, for people to enjoy.

But maybe you just hate it when people are happy?

Of course, I had already spelled it earlier... but I guess you just did not like it at all.

[matrix123mko]

One Question, Do you guys even think Blizz would want to risk upsetting the Horde faction players just to appease a few of you?

The answer is No of course not don't be stupid.

How would that upset the Horde?

[Alanar]

Would be ideal. HE having his own playable race with a completely new model / rig and new movements, etc.
The only worrying thing is that they could give us another VE, knowing Blizzard.

- - - Updated - - -



I would prefer the nozdormu model, but it could work.

This is not a very new or exciting idea, multiple posters "came up" with this.

Problem is, they are identical, the same, to the bone! Besides a differnt political standpoint, their appearence is maintained. Myabe they are little paler and skinnier (they are vegan, so it's Obvious) but, changing the look of that grp for the sake of making it playable is kind of destroying lore even further.

Cosmectic option is the only option with all this debate, we can't put the same race on other faction without hurting the other, can't change the look to make them look like high elves at all (also no nightelf model with pointy ears) The burning crusade gave us the official look on high/blood elves, the classic models were a remodel of night elf, this was done because the high/blood elf model wasn't in the game. Why would we go back to that? Besides these classic models were what highborne were suppose to look like, same race differnt sub grp within that race. Point is we can't just change the entire model for the sake of making playable.

They made nightborne playable.. what a fiasco was that .. model wise. You want that for high elves? no? give it a eye color option and close the damn discussion. You can't please everyone and lets be honest high elf fans you still believe they will ever get a offical spot in the Alliance?

[Starla]

This is not ssomething very new or exciting idea, multiple posters "came up" with this.

Problem is, they are identical, the same, to the bone besides a differnt political standpoint.
Changing the look of that grp for the sake of making it playable is kind of destroying lore even further.


Cosmectic option is the only option with all this debate, we can't put the same race on other faction without hurting the other, can't change the look to make them look like high elves at all (also no nightelf model with pointy ears) The burning crusade gave us the official look on high/blood elves, we can't just change that for the sake of crying out loud.

I think it's clear that there are a LOT of helfers who aren't concerned with the lore when it comes to them getting playable high elves on the alliance.

[Alanar]

I think it's clear that there are a LOT of helfers who aren't concerned with the lore when it comes to them getting playable high elves on the alliance.

Which is concerning, this debate is getting people banned lef and right because they are very.. fanatical.

It stopped being funny ages ago and we here now with so much hate on this topic its scary even.

[Nosgoth]

What if...


Just what if...


Blizzard did decide to add High Elves as a playable race...


...BUT


...they had a brand new and unique model? Not the same Blood/Void Elf model? A brand new skeleton/rig with brand new attack and casting animations and EVERYTHING. Would people still want to play them?


Like what if they looked like this?

What if they just add High Elves instead of abominations nobody wants.

Like blond Night Elves.

- - - Updated - - -

One Question, Do you guys even think Blizz would want to risk upsetting the Horde faction players just to appease a few of you?

The answer is No of course not don't be stupid.

No Horde player would be upset about this.

And you conveniently ignored my questions because you have no answers.

[Broflake]

No Horde player would be upset about this.

And you conveniently ignored my questions because you have no answers.

I play Horde, I would be upset about it. It detracts from both of the factions solely for the sake of promoting a clone of an existing race. No thanks.

[Manariel]

I play Horde, I would be upset about it. It detracts from both of the factions solely for the sake of promoting a clone of an existing race. No thanks.

And VE, who are Blood Elves, steeped in their lore, with their TBC characterization almost down to a "t" aren't ?

High Elevs looks similar now, yes. But they are far more distinct from the BE than the VE are.

[Ignaz]

This is not a very new or exciting idea, multiple posters "came up" with this.

Problem is, they are identical, the same, to the bone! Besides a differnt political standpoint, their appearence is maintained. Myabe they are little paler and skinnier (they are vegan, so it's Obvious) but, changing the look of that grp for the sake of making it playable is kind of destroying lore even further.

Cosmectic option is the only option with all this debate, we can't put the same race on other faction without hurting the other, can't change the look to make them look like high elves at all (also no nightelf model with pointy ears) The burning crusade gave us the official look on high/blood elves, the classic models were a remodel of night elf, this was done because the high/blood elf model wasn't in the game. Why would we go back to that? Besides these classic models were what highborne were suppose to look like, same race differnt sub grp within that race. Point is we can't just change the entire model for the sake of making playable.

They made nightborne playable.. what a fiasco was that .. model wise. You want that for high elves? no? give it a eye color option and close the damn discussion. You can't please everyone and lets be honest high elf fans you still believe they will ever get a offical spot in the Alliance?

A change in the HE model may come under a decent excuse. example:
- It could be said that the current model of the BE is the mutated model of a thalasian elve, given by the corruption caused by the interaction with fel magic.
- The new HE model would be Thalasian Elve's uncorrupted model.
Easy.

The problem here is not the excuse or if it is well supported by the lore, since Blizzard has shown that they can do anything in wow without having to be 100% attached to the principles and lore already established in the game. example:
- Now, the helm of domination was stolen from the shadowlands by the nathrezim and not forged by them as it had been said in the beginning.

This happened to integrate 3 things that the players wanted by giving them a consistent corelation:
- lich king
- shadowlands
- new expansion

excuse not 100% tied to the lore or the principles ?: the helm of domination is a kind of key to enter the shadowlands.
Easy.

- - - Updated - - -

There's also going to be a lot of High elfers who are not going to be happy with whatever model they get IF they ever got it so to appease the few I feel Blizz are best sticking with their current stance that the High elves now belong to the Horde in the form of the Blood Elves.

Yeah… the integration of VE (for the Alliance) proves your point...

- - - Updated - - -

I play Horde, I would be upset about it. It detracts from both of the factions solely for the sake of promoting a clone of an existing race. No thanks.

Then you must be super offended to see so many blood elves (void elves) as an allied race of the alliance

[Syegfryed]

fel crystals were to empower the city and expand fel radiation to the blood elves (which keeps changing them).

what change? again, there is no canon change, you are making things up

you forgot blood elves being changed by fel energy

Except they didn't, and i already show you canon proof of that.

Playable kul'tiran are that tall, strong/fat for their lifestyle, not for being another race. They are simply human, that's all

you don't become 8ft tall because your lifestyle, its impossible, they are not "simply" human, they are a subrace of humans

Exactly. Who blessed the kul'tiran to be fat, ronald mcdonald?

If you are still going to troll and parrot this kind of thing i recommend you drop this conversation, at least with me.

Actually you can, look at the before/after photos of people losing a lot of weight and you will see the differences in their features. In terms of height, well ... humans come in many sizes, colors and shapes.

wrong

one thing is ''said it'' and another to really ''happen''. The fact that the sunwell exists and the need of both high elves and blood elves to visit it is proof that they are still addicted

show me a proof, a canon source, confirming they are still addict then, cause just because they are till using dont mean they are still addict.

I see the same example of recolor here.

HE and BE have the same color.

no, their population grows because they have a high and uncontrolled reproduction rate, which I already said did not come to the case in HE situation

yes, therefore elves numbers don't grow like that and you were wrong.

Irrelevant. Read again

It may be true but irrelevant. Read again.

what i have to read again to know you are wrong? its totally relevant and it contradict what you said.

We don't want half-elves, we want HE for the alliance (no VE and no BE)

And will end up with none.

a similar story to that of the blood elves.

being close to fel energies and drink literally demon blood is totally different, not similar.

Hmm, I thought I already mentioned all of this, but maybe you did not feel like reading it?

Let me try again:

maybe you didn't read my question, let me ask again, forget about all the non-existent options you said, lets theorize that they would do that, do you think people who want HE would be ok with this? just NE with HE color?

- - - Updated - - -

He did not say both. He used "plural" because the question is talking about a group of people!

Of course Blizzard would say "they" when referring to the "thin humans" since it's not one thin human, but many! If people ask "hey, Blizz, are you going to make the tortollans playable?" do you think Blizzard would say "no, he/she/it will not be playable?"

you like to call people ignorant and other things, but you do put the shoes sometime right? i would say its ironic, i will put the comment again:

Travis: So, Thin Man and Fat Man are what we call them internally. And no, they’re not intended to be a different race, [they’re] just variants on Kul Tirans.

obviously, when asked about the thin humans, he answered for both, not unusual in a ineview..
you can read the rest here:
https://blizzardwatch.com/2018/04/05...-day-jimmy-lo/

Alright. I'm ending the conversation here. You have absolute zero understanding of how developing stuff in a video game work, and cherry-pick what statements the developers make are real or not.

I have a really hard time believing you're that misinformed, which means the only other option left is you're here in bad faith (to keep from using a less charitable descriptor) so I'm done, here.

Thats why im saying is what i think, good for me that i never said tis a fact, you don't need to put your guns out, to me, if they intend to do then on launch they would have worked on then to join the allied race trio, and not work on other 3. So, I believe that they indeed were not planned to be an allied race, and only became after the playerbase asking for then, same with vulpera.

You can think they always intend to do then since bfa was in development, but i don't.

But I am bookmarking this to remember the sheer WTF-ery you posted here.

"They literally did Kul'Tirans in one patch."

Geez, what a load fresh, stinky bull dung.

wuuush, sometimes i forget how you like to nitpick, i meant to say they made the kultirans an allied race in one patch, before they had nothing besides their base customization, and they put then later, and still is very lackluster.

[Nenavn]

We see High Elves among the Void Elves in Telogrus. We might see High Elves as possible customization options for Void Elves in Shadowlands.

[Ignaz]

what change? again, there is no canon change, you are making things up

e.g. behavior, skin color, eye color, hair tone, etc.

you don't become 8ft tall because your lifestyle, its impossible, they are not "simply" human, they are a subrace of humans

Actually, you can, factors such as diet and physical activity may be enough to make you higher than average, and that doesn't make you a sub race or something like that.

If you are still going to troll and parrot this kind of thing i recommend you drop this conversation, at least with me.

Sorry for trolling u, really; but you made it easy for me this time.

wrong

why? enlighten me, please

show me a proof, a canon source, confirming they are still addict then, cause just because they are till using dont mean they are still addict.

It doesn't have to be written, you just have to see the context of the situation.
e.g. If you are addicted to tobacco and smoke every day, you are addicted. You go to the psychiatrist and do therapy and supposedly overcome your addiction, but you still smoking.
You can say everything you want but you are still an addict if you keep smoking

HE and BE have the same color.

Nope

yes, therefore elves numbers don't grow like that and you were wrong.

what i have to read again to know you are wrong? its totally relevant and it contradict what you said.

I will explain it to you once again so you can save searches:
- a long-lived population grows its numbers and does not reduce as a non-long-lived population does. why? because a long-lived population is not tied to the mortality standards of non-long-lived populations. this would (in the case of the Thalassian elves) that an elf went to the park to play elfball with his great-grandson quietly.
- I emphasize: it does not have to do with its reproduction speed or with the number of children that each elf has

And will end up with none.

We won't know until it happens. That's why we keep asking for playable HE for the alliance. (no blood elves or void elves)

being close to fel energies and drink literally demon blood is totally different, not similar.

The only thing different is the magnitude of the effect on each race. But both were changed in one way or another (similar)

maybe you didn't read my question, let me ask again, forget about all the non-existent options you said, lets theorize that they would do that, do you think people who want HE would be ok with this? just NE with HE color?

well, I wouldn't mind if they added nozdormu style elves as a model for HE

[Astranea]

forget about all the non-existent options you said

Well, I can accept counterarguments about the eyes (can you please elaborate specifically as to why blue would not be appropriate as a night elf pupil color beneath the glow, seen they have blue hair and skin?), or disagreements about making all sorts of hair dyes available to all races (again, I would love to read your take on this rather than be dismissed without explanations, seen it is not such an advanced technology and it would not be against the lore).

But that's one out of four, two at most if you wanna be really narrowminded about something as simple as hair dyes, so not 'ALL'. As for the 'NON-EXISTING' part, I sure hope you are not arguing that the night elves do not already have pink skin and face tattoos... because they really already do, I swear! :P

lets theorize that they would do that, do you think people who want HE would be ok with this? just NE with HE color?

Why not? I certainly would be. I know several others who would. And previously on this very thread between one argument and another I read some other people saying that they would find it nice, too.

Many Wildhammer fans are very thrilled about the new customizations for the dwarves, even with regular dwarf racials. Many troll fans reacted the same way about all the different new options. I do not think it would be very different for the Alliance fanbase, if they were granted extra bits for the night elves, as not everyone is a hard core fanatic. In fact, I am pretty sure MOST of the high elves fans would be happy to settle for some tiny extra options here and there to make a look-alike night elf, rather than nothing. Besides, the high elves in wow DID share the night elf models in Vanilla. If it worked for Blizzard back then, it can still work for me.

At the same time, I would also be totally happy if the Horde would get their own blue eyes for blood elves. Horde ain't for me, but I do not envy the character model (besides, even if, void elves) and I see no reasons why the Blood Elves should not enjoy the choice since they literally were High Elves before they changed their name. It certainly does not spoil my fun if someone else has fun too. I just hope I can also have some little things to be happy about, so we can all be happy.

[Obelisk Kai]

We see High Elves among the Void Elves in Telogrus. We might see High Elves as possible customization options for Void Elves in Shadowlands.

More likely they are there to permit Void Elf players to argue that they began as a High Elf rather than a Blood Elf. Void Elves are the result of a particular transformative process and the skin tones seem to be a part of that, as well as a differentiating factor between Blood/High Elves and Void Elves. Void Elves look the way they do for a reason.

It would be better if, when the Void Elf customization pass comes (and right now it is years away), that Blizzard leans into the void aspect of the Void Elves and fully expresses that fantasy rather than attempting to pretend to be something they can't be.

[Syegfryed]

e.g. behavior, skin color, eye color, hair tone, etc.

those things are all false, they have the same skin color, same behavior, same hair tone and the blue eye is not a vallid point since there is blood elves with blue eyes.

Actually, you can, factors such as diet and physical activity may be enough to make you higher than average, and that doesn't make you a sub race or something like that.

you cannot get a average of 2ft by that, the heck you are talking about? you don't know how this is insane?

show me one person who did that.

Sorry for trolling u, really; but you made it easy for me this time.

so, you admit you are wrong and just trying to troll? its a start.

It doesn't have to be written, you just have to see the context of the situation.

you don't have proof, you have headcanon, despite they saying the light cured their addiction, all right

Nope

yes they have, is stated in the warcraft encyclopedia(that you refuse yo acknowledge) the only difference between BE and HE is political

I will explain it to you once again so you can save searches:
- a long-lived population grows its numbers and does not reduce as a non-long-lived population does. why? because a long-lived population is not tied to the mortality standards of non-long-lived populations. this would (in the case of the Thalassian elves) that an elf went to the park to play elfball with his great-grandson quietly.

Say that to species in extinction who live long, its not how it works, long live-population don't have much children, therefore their number don't grow exponentialy, elves would have one children or not having children at all, in hundread years they could still be in the same numbers, regardless if they didn't die for old age

short-lived exercises reproduce a lot so they can replenish the old dyng, and by a hundread they will surpass the initial population;

- I emphasize: it does not have to do with its reproduction speed or with the number of children that each elf has

The population number and growth have all to do with the reproduction speed an the number of children the population have.

The only thing different is the magnitude of the effect on each race. But both were changed in one way or another (similar)

correction, the only thing similar is the fel magic, was involved, everything else is different, and no, BE didn't had any major difference despite an glow in their eyes, who do not change their race.

Well, I can accept counterarguments about the eyes (can you please elaborate specifically as to why blue would not be appropriate as a night elf pupil color beneath the glow, seen they have blue hair and skin?), or disagreements about making all sorts of hair dyes available to all races (again, I would love to read your take on this rather than be dismissed without explanations, seen it is not such an advanced technology and it would not be against the lore).

blizzard like to emphasize that something have to make sense in the lore, like the race/class combination and customization/allied race

NE don't have HE skin/hair color, they are other race, it would make s much sense as human skin orc by example;

Why not? I certainly would be. I know several others who would. And previously on this very thread between one argument and another I read some other people saying that they would find it nice, too.

just saying passing years with those kind of threads you know the majorly don't want a compromise or something similar, if so, Void elves would be enough(essentially HE with another color) they want what they idealize, and its a BE/HE thing, or that model enhanced (buffer with tattoos) by example

just saying i would not care if E got HE colors, im just saying it would not make any difference, people would still want HE

[Ignaz]

those things are all false, they have the same skin color, same behavior, same hair tone and the blue eye is not a vallid point since there is blood elves with blue eyes.

wrong

you cannot get a average of 2ft by that, the heck you are talking about? you don't know how this is insane?

dude, What world do you live in?
So, for you, a malnourished child will grow in the same way as a well-nourished child? Or, will a child who has a good physical activity grow in the same way as a ceding one?
And if the child grows taller, does that make him a different race?
Or maybe, what you are thinking is that if an adult does these things it will not grow. If that is the case, I apologize for not making me understand. It is obvious that an adult does not grow that way since being an adult has already gone through puberty and all the processes of growth have been paused.
The body growth of a person from childhood is based on 5 elements:
- nutrition
- Genetic heritage
- physical activity
- hormonal system
- environment
leaving aside hormones, and genetic heritage (since it is a game that does not make any of that clear) we can only take into account the physical activity and feeding of a Kul'tirano child until adulthood + the difficulties that the environment poses.
It has already been explained to us that thanks to hard work as sailors, the Kul'tirans have grown that way. that's it.

show me one person who did that.

Do that research by yourself, I won't make things easier like that.

so, you admit you are wrong and just trying to troll? its a start.

HAHAHA.. no. I was just trolling you about ronald mcdonald's blessing. I still thinking you're wrong

you don't have proof, you have headcanon, despite they saying the light cured their addiction, all right

not headcanon, just logic. And Again, it is one thing to say that you are no longer addicted and another is to prove it.

yes they have, is stated in the warcraft encyclopedia(that you refuse yo acknowledge) the only difference between BE and HE is political

mmm... wow principles say otherwise.

Say that to species in extinction who live long, its not how it works, long live-population don't have much children, therefore their number don't grow exponentialy, elves would have one children or not having children at all, in hundread years they could still be in the same numbers, regardless if they didn't die for old age

man, I will not explain it again. if you don't want to understand it, fine; I do not care. Anyway, numbers are no longer an excuse to make a race non-playable

short-lived exercises reproduce a lot so they can replenish the old dyng, and by a hundread they will surpass the initial population;

I don't know anything about the reproduction rate of the exercises

The population number and growth have all to do with the reproduction speed an the number of children the population have.

Not in this case

correction, the only thing similar is the fel magic, was involved, everything else is different, and no, BE didn't had any major difference despite an glow in their eyes, who do not change their race.

There are differences, you just don't want to see them

[Ielenia]

you like to call people ignorant and other things, but you do put the shoes sometime right?

How can I "put on the shoes" if you haven't got them off your feet yet in this conversation?

obviously, when asked about the thin humans, he answered for both, not unusual in a ineview..

He was simply clarifying how they differentiate the three kinds internally.

you can read the rest here:
https://blizzardwatch.com/2018/04/05...-day-jimmy-lo/

Then let me school you.

This is the MMO-Champion's post on the front page, posted April 5, 2018. The same date as your precious article, and it is written there, in black-and-white, the third bullet point in the Highlights section:

• Kul'Tiran and Zandalari Trolls will come later in the expansion.

So, I'll repeat again to get into your thick skull: Kul'Tirans were already planned as an allied race before the game even went live.

[Alanar]

A change in the HE model may come under a decent excuse. example:
- It could be said that the current model of the BE is the mutated model of a thalasian elve, given by the corruption caused by the interaction with fel magic.
- The new HE model would be Thalasian Elve's uncorrupted nce

Why are you quoting me, if you say we need a differnt model.. meaning you didnt read.
There is no reason why that model needs to be changed..

Also: stop with the nozdormu model bullshit, they are no night elves my god.

[Astranea]

something have to make sense in the lore, like the race/class combination and customization/allied race

NE don't have HE skin

Seriously dude, the NE already have pink skins.

If by your own words all the totally new colors of the darkspear trolls can be dismissed as genetic variations due to common heritage, there is no way one or two extra pink skins would break the elven lore. They also used o be the the same people... which is why they do not only have blue skins.

hair color

Yet I am still waiting for the part where you explain me why hair dyes used by barber shops would be against the lore if they were unlocked for all races.

Purely cosmetic, and low tech.
All it would take would be for the extra colors to be only available at the barber, for a higher fee than racial colors.

Done.

it would make s much sense as human skin orc by example

Except that night elves in game ALREADY have several pink skins. But maybe you never played alliance and do not know. Should I make a screenshot?

just saying passing years with those kind of threads you know the majorly don't want a compromise or something similar, if so, Void elves would be enough(essentially HE with another color) they want what they idealize, and its a BE/HE thing, or that model enhanced (buffer with tattoos) by example

just saying i would not care if E got HE colors, im just saying it would not make any difference, people would still want HE

Argument invalid. People complain that they wanted high elf COLORS, not the blood elf model specifically. They would be very happy with another original model, in fact.

Hence, since they ask about colors rather than shape, and the void elves do not have the right colors people are still asking.

But... many people stated on this thread that they would be happy if void elfes had the right color options, and I believe they justify the matter pointing out that Alleria is a void elf and she has the correct looks.

The blood/void elf model could be used, sure, but having the model without the colors means nothing to someone wanting to play a high elf.

Ability to dye a night elf hair in a barber shop and an extra shades of pink to the skin of a race which already have several pink skins will not break the lore. Even you must be able to see it.

[Shakana]

Why the hell are people still arguing against the inclusion of Alliance High Elves?

Like... are you so depraved that you can't see other people happy and fulfilled? Does your existence worsen if someone else's improves? Sheesh.

• Numbers don't matter. The Pandaren player is ONE individual who left the Wandering Isle and sides with either Horde or Alliance.
• The fact that Blood Elves are biologically High Elves doesn't matter. The concept of a High Elf has developed over the years into something else than simply Quel'dorei living in Silvermoon. It's about exiled elves who prefer arcane magic and the Light, and who refuse to budge from their former allies on the Alliance over that isolated Garithos-incident.
• High Elves potentially representing just a small visual change from Blood Elves doesn't matter. Mag'har Orcs are literally just brown orcs. Lightforged Draenei underwent a little ritual and got tattoos. Highmountain Tauren, in fact, are a great example for why High Elves make sense. They, too, are like an isolated, offshoot tribe which has been kind of "exiled" from their original species. Small visual and cultural changes but fundamentally the same. The same goes for High Elves.
• The amount of elven races currently in the game doesn't matter. Who gives a crap if there's fifty more orc races, or eleven new undead? Let it happen. More content is more content. It's not like one additional elven race - and a long-requested fan-favourite at that - would detract anything from the rest of the game.
• Anything the developers ever said about High Elves doesn't matter. They've said a ton of stuff over the years, and much of it has changed. Classic WoW is the obvious example. Hell, they change their fundamental design philosophy with every new expansion these days. Every year it's like "[...] but what we learned was that, ultimately, this didn't really work out. We left too much of X behind, or we did too much of Y, so this year we're doing everything differently!"

Just give players some damn High Elves and let it be settled.

Even i that don't want high elves agreed with what you typed. Indeed the amount of players that are already claiming for years they want high elves should just have them. But i guess blizzard said void elves instead of high elves, and i don't see them add high elves after that, but there's many ways to introduce it still.
I will just maintain distance of this topic, i was banned and wanted to quote you (because i made a joke about dks belfs looking like high elves because of the eyes, but i guess people got offended). Anyway, i will keep myself in distance from this mega thread. And just wanted to say i agree with the points you made.