Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Xeenith]

You're idea includes turning a core horde race neutral.. how is that even remotely fair?? Your idea correlates to blurring the faction lines even further, which is what Blizzard have said they do not intend to do. They even reemphasized this blizzcon the importance on keeping the two factions separate.

dude, you are saying the same thing twice here, safe that for orc "corruption change a race" and for blood elves "they are the same"
yeah, a magical attuned race bathing in corruption and fel magic will not have any change to them sure... while drinking once some demon blood will remake the orcs completly

lol

[Ignaz]

no they aren't, and it snot hard to understand, just seeing then it will make rly clear they are not just "fat human"

you could find at humans in wow before, kul'tirans are literally half giant, standing at 8ft+ average, their body type is from a strongmen, more muscles than lard and of course their characteristics and conditions adapted from another environment.

Clearly different.



they are not "just" corrupted, you are simplifying what happened, the race got corrupted, they change, they are not the same thing anymore.



Blood elves are exactly the same as high elves with no difference whatsoever in their characteristics, since oyu can find blood elves with blue eyes too.




this is a common misunderstanding, just because A equal B don't mean C equal B

Stormwind humans, or regular humans are totally different from kul'tirans.
Green orcs are different from maghar.
Blood elves are not different from High elves, even the blue eyes is not a difference anymore.

Okay. Now I see what you are doing here.

you deny the obvious difference between high elves and blood elves but defend with shield and sword the (same) differences between recular orcs and mag'har orcs. We touch your weak point and the only thing you do is deny the obvious facts.

[Doffen]

Why the hell are people still arguing against the inclusion of Alliance High Elves?

Like... are you so depraved that you can't see other people happy and fulfilled? Does your existence worsen if someone else's improves? Sheesh.

• Numbers don't matter. The Pandaren player is ONE individual who left the Wandering Isle and sides with either Horde or Alliance.
• The fact that Blood Elves are biologically High Elves doesn't matter. The concept of a High Elf has developed over the years into something else than simply Quel'dorei living in Silvermoon. It's about exiled elves who prefer arcane magic and the Light, and who refuse to budge from their former allies on the Alliance over that isolated Garithos-incident.
• High Elves potentially representing just a small visual change from Blood Elves doesn't matter. Mag'har Orcs are literally just brown orcs. Lightforged Draenei underwent a little ritual and got tattoos. Highmountain Tauren, in fact, are a great example for why High Elves make sense. They, too, are like an isolated, offshoot tribe which has been kind of "exiled" from their original species. Small visual and cultural changes but fundamentally the same. The same goes for High Elves.
• The amount of elven races currently in the game doesn't matter. Who gives a crap if there's fifty more orc races, or eleven new undead? Let it happen. More content is more content. It's not like one additional elven race - and a long-requested fan-favourite at that - would detract anything from the rest of the game.
• Anything the developers ever said about High Elves doesn't matter. They've said a ton of stuff over the years, and much of it has changed. Classic WoW is the obvious example. Hell, they change their fundamental design philosophy with every new expansion these days. Every year it's like "[...] but what we learned was that, ultimately, this didn't really work out. We left too much of X behind, or we did too much of Y, so this year we're doing everything differently!"

Just give players some damn High Elves and let it be settled.

Well said. More options is just more awesome. There are High Elves on the Alliance, the lore is there. And give drogbar to horde. Undead high elves to horde. Wildhammer dwarf to alliance(oh wait) Bronze dragon gnomes to horde, bolvars(fire humans) to the Alliance, ogres to horde, sethrak to alliance, skinny humans for Alliance and more, more, MOAR!

It's just sad to see people oppose more options which are just a good thing. At least when there are lore to back it up. Blizzard going all out on character customizations in Shadowlands, I'll say GO WILD! 40 new options to Blood Elves, I'll pop blue eyes on them at once, but they better give just as many options to all other races. Undead High Elves for instance, why the hell aren't they made yet. Better be an option for Undead. Maybe Velonara stating she belongs to the Forsaken, Sin'dorei and the Horde is the trigger!

[Strippling]

dude, you are saying the same thing twice here, safe that for orc "corruption change a race" and for blood elves "they are the same"
yeah, a magical attuned race bathing in corruption and fel magic will not have any change to them sure... while drinking once some demon blood will remake the orcs completly

lol

Huh?
/10char

[Ielenia]

Thats false, cause the differences existed prior they even thinking about they being an allied race

Um... false. There were zero differences prior to them becoming an allied race. Every single Kul'Tiran you saw around the world prior to BfA looked no different than any other human in the game. And why would they? They're humans after all, right?

Maghar were different since TBC with they being brown and being bigger in size, in wod we had then in even more different colors adapted to different environments.

Many NPCs are bigger than the player character. If I'm not mistaken, your playable Mag'har is no taller than an OG orc, isn't it?

Kul'tirans difference was created in bfa but they didn't intend then to be an allied race, the difference was already there when they decide.

Oh my god... Really? You really think they developed BfA all the way to launch date without having the Kul'Tirans planned as allied race from the start? Really?

those "trials and tribulations" are more fanfic than actual lore, the time was not enough to do that, and we have confirmation about that from the high elves in the game after that not changing at all.

It's actual lore. High elves did suffer more than the blood elves because they refused to drain mana from living beings. And you say "time was not enough", but more than enough time has passed. Two years is more than enough time to train one's body to become more muscular, for example.

They didn't drain mana from living beings, but they did drain from magical things, especially the silver covenant elves who people preach to be playable.

Magical artifacts are nowhere near as common around the world as one might thing. And items who had their magic sucked off become inert. I don't think the magisters of Dalaran, while no doubt willing to help, would be too happy to give all their magical possessions to the elves for them to feed.

See, if they went for this route, the high elves would be tiny,

Or bigger and more muscular.

even more pale

Why?

and would not be able to be mage

I'm fine with this too.

their model would be different showing an absence of the magic they need so much,

That's something I have been arguing here.

they would change into something who no longer resenble a high elf

Not exactly. They can still pretty much look like an elf. Kul'tirans still look like humans, don't they?

yes see:
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Blood_Fury

See this YouTube link. It shows that orcs could enter their "blood lust/blood fury" waaaaaaay before demons even came into play. Hell, that very link of yours shows a screenshot of the YT link I posted, further supporting what I just wrote.

no? if its not i think we don't need HE at all, people could put an armor on their VE and RP as HE

It's about the fantasy, and the VEs bring none of the fantasy because they do not come from high elves, but from the blood elves.

i just didn't understand what you tried to say there.

I simply pointed out that saying:

totally moot since they are not playable

is wrong since the entire point of this discussion is about how high elves fit as a playable race.

he pretty much said the option is already available and blue eyes are not enough, the infamous "the horde is there/aiting for you"

Because, again, it's "the closest thing".

[Strippling]

Why the hell are people still arguing against the inclusion of Alliance High Elves?

Like... are you so depraved that you can't see other people happy and fulfilled? Does your existence worsen if someone else's improves? Sheesh.

Not constructive in the slightest. You're a fresh account though, so I can't help but think you may just be here to troll... but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for now.

In response to your poorly constructed comment, players against the idea of high elves are typically trying to preserve a key feature of the game (a feature implemented from Day 1), which is faction distinction and identity. WoW is one of the few MMOs where there are two distinct factions, each consisting of differing races that bring a unique thematic and aesthetic to the two distinct factions. This is what WoW has been about and is what has made it a unique MMO to most other MMOs. Blurring the faction lines (which is what high elves would do) will simply diminish this key and founding aspect of WoW, as well as detract from the uniqueness of blood elves (a currently playable race). It's this very reason why many of us are against the idea of high elves. We're not trying to deny anyone anything, as high elves are already playable on the Horde. We are simply advocating to maintain a key aspect that makes WoW what it is.

[*]High Elves potentially representing just a small visual change from Blood Elves doesn't matter. Mag'har Orcs are literally just brown orcs. Lightforged Draenei underwent a little ritual and got tattoos. Highmountain Tauren, in fact, are a great example for why High Elves make sense. They, too, are like an isolated, offshoot tribe which has been kind of "exiled" from their original species. Small visual and cultural changes but fundamentally the same. The same goes for High Elves.

Apples to oranges. Mag'har orcs and LF Draenei didn't cross faction boundaries. High elves do, which is why void elves were implemented instead.. to offer more than just a "small visual change" to their parent race on the opposing faction.

[*]Anything the developers ever said about High Elves doesn't matter. They've said a ton of stuff over the years, and much of it has changed. Classic WoW is the obvious example. Hell, they change their fundamental design philosophy with every new expansion these days. Every year it's like "[...] but what we learned was that, ultimately, this didn't really work out. We left too much of X behind, or we did too much of Y, so this year we're doing everything differently!"

Again, apples to oranges. Classic WoW and high elves are not comparable in the slightest. One had a significant amount of support, the other is supported by a small vocal minority. The classic WoW petition had over 200,000 signatures from players, petitioning for it to happen. Compare that to the official high elf petition which had a measly 600 or so signatures. On top of that there were several successful private classic servers, as opposed to high elf threads on the forums which usually consist of the same 20 or so people arguing back and forth. Don't kid yourself in thinking high elves are comparable to the classic wow situation, Blizzard certainly don't.

Just give players some damn High Elves and let it be settled.

They were given to players in TBC. It's been settled for over a decade.

[Syegfryed]

Okay. Now I see what you are doing here.

you deny the obvious difference between high elves and blood elves but defend with shield and sword the (same) differences between recular orcs and mag'har orcs. We touch your weak point and the only thing you do is deny the obvious facts.

that pretty ironic coming from you, since you are doing petty much the opposite, downgrading the difference of other races trying to validate a non-existent difference of elves.

its already stated that the obvious difference between high and blood elves(and the only one) is political, not physically.

Um... false. There were zero differences prior to them becoming an allied race. Every single Kul'Tiran you saw around the world prior to BfA looked no different than any other human in the game. And why would they? They're humans after all, right?

kul'tirans only became playable in 8.1, we had their difference since bfa reveal. they had a lot od fierence before becoming allied race.

And they only become allied race because the playerbase asked for, proving they didn't intend of being an allied race.

Many NPCs are bigger than the player character. If I'm not mistaken, your playable Mag'har is no taller than an OG orc, isn't it?

because our maghar not come from outland, but from alternate draenor, if you go to outland you see they being bigger, Garrosh and drannosh were bigger too.

Oh my god... Really? You really think they developed BfA all the way to launch date without having the Kul'Tirans planned as allied race from the start? Really?

in fact i do believed that, they even delayed zandalari to come with kul'tirans, their lack of customization also proof that

It's actual lore. High elves did suffer more than the blood elves because they refused to drain mana from living beings. And you say "time was not enough", but more than enough time has passed. Two years is more than enough time to train one's body to become more muscular, for example.

They didn't suffer that much, is what im saying, its was not a cross to bear, the problem was worse for children and old people.

And yes, time was not enough to change a race, especially a race that quickly had their magic font replenished, suffering starvation of magic would not make then "muscular" in any account, and would not be enough for mere 2 years

Magical artifacts are nowhere near as common around the world as one might thing. And items who had their magic sucked off become inert. I don't think the magisters of Dalaran, while no doubt willing to help, would be too happy to give all their magical possessions to the elves for them to feed.

they are so few that i think they would do that yes, especially the ones living in dalaran.

Or bigger and more muscular.

that would make no sense, when a race enter a period of starvation or little resources they don't grow bigger or muscular, they grow tiny and weaker, elves do not have the biotype of orcs or trolls to grow bigger in a danger environment like the drakkari/amani by example.

to grow bigger or muscular would make sense if they reproduce with humans, thus im still convinced a half-elf would be the way to go, different psychically and thematically, yet would maintain the high elf heritage of their parents

Why?

without their magic they pale, like night elves going high elves, and wretched(?)

I'm fine with this too.

many obviously would not be ok with that, they want the high elf mage ranger and paladin;

That's something I have been arguing here.

yep, but muscular or bigger would make no sense tough.

Not exactly. They can still pretty much look like an elf. Kul'tirans still look like humans, don't they?

yes, they can look like high elf, but they would not be "the high elf", that people idolize, they would change, thats the delicate point and would be or could be VE situation all ove again.

See this YouTube link. It shows that orcs could enter their "blood lust/blood fury" waaaaaaay before demons even came into play. Hell, that very link of yours shows a screenshot of the YT link I posted, further supporting what I just wrote.

i know that, but did you read what i put? the green orcs bloodfury was enhanced and empowered by demon blood, something maghar don't have it.

It's about the fantasy, and the VEs bring none of the fantasy because they do not come from high elves, but from the blood elves.

If VE would come from HE you think would make any difference? cause i say it would not. people don't ask for HE become VE they ask HE color to VE.

wrong since the entire point of this discussion is about how high elves fit as a playable race.

but see, ask for HE playable is just like asking for maghar orcs from outland, just because it was not what was asked for

Because, again, it's "the closest thing".

they essentially are "the thing" only in red instead of blue banner

Like i said, half-elf would be the way to go in this situation, a compromise reflecting the exact situation of elves living wit humans and diluting their bloodline.

They would be bigger and muscular due to their human blood, yet they would have the elf characteristics and traits, They would be different thematically, Half-elves are different from normal elves since old days of the fantasy genres like dnd, they would reflect both their elves ancestry but also their human lineage within the alliance, and they would be mages, paladins and rangers all together.

This without an ass-pull justification, its a perfect compromise, But i don't know why helves are so adamant in requesting that, maybe its because they would "assume defeat" or something like that.

[Ignaz]

In response to your poorly constructed comment, players against the idea of high elves are typically trying to preserve a key feature of the game (a feature implemented from Day 1), which is faction distinction and identity. WoW is one of the few MMOs where there are two distinct factions, each consisting of differing races that bring a unique thematic and aesthetic to the two distinct factions. This is what WoW has been about and is what has made it a unique MMO to most other MMOs. Blurring the faction lines (which is what high elves would do) will simply diminish this key and founding aspect of WoW, as well as detract from the uniqueness of blood elves (a currently playable race). It's this very reason why many of us are against the idea of high elves. We're not trying to deny anyone anything, as high elves are already playable on the Horde. We are simply advocating to maintain a key aspect that makes WoW what it is.

if this were the case and you wanted to strongly defend faction identity, you lost the Fight when they implemented the allied races system. You now... blood elves for the alliance, night elves for the horde.
Even before having integrated the allied races, that identity was violated by the worgen as the black sheep of the Alliance.

- - - Updated - - -

that pretty ironic coming from you, since you are doing petty much the opposite, downgrading the difference of other races trying to validate a non-existent difference of elves.

its already stated that the obvious difference between high and blood elves(and the only one) is political, not physically.



kul'tirans only became playable in 8.1, we had their difference since bfa reveal. they had a lot od fierence before becoming allied race.

And they only become allied race because the playerbase asked for, proving they didn't intend of being an allied race.


because our maghar not come from outland, but from alternate draenor, if you go to outland you see they being bigger, Garrosh and drannosh were bigger too.



in fact i do believed that, they even delayed zandalari to come with kul'tirans, their lack of customization also proof that


They didn't suffer that much, is what im saying, its was not a cross to bear, the problem was worse for children and old people.

And yes, time was not enough to change a race, especially a race that quickly had their magic font replenished, suffering starvation of magic would not make then "muscular" in any account, and would not be enough for mere 2 years



they are so few that i think they would do that yes, especially the ones living in dalaran.


that would make no sense, when a race enter a period of starvation or little resources they don't grow bigger or muscular, they grow tiny and weaker, elves do not have the biotype of orcs or trolls to grow bigger in a danger environment like the drakkari/amani by example.

to grow bigger or muscular would make sense if they reproduce with humans, thus im still convinced a half-elf would be the way to go, different psychically and thematically, yet would maintain the high elf heritage of their parents


without their magic they pale, like night elves going high elves, and wretched(?)



many obviously would not be ok with that, they want the high elf mage ranger and paladin;


yep, but muscular or bigger would make no sense tough.


yes, they can look like high elf, but they would not be "the high elf", that people idolize, they would change, thats the delicate point and would be or could be VE situation all ove again.


i know that, but did you read what i put? the green orcs bloodfury was enhanced and empowered by demon blood, something maghar don't have it.



If VE would come from HE you think would make any difference? cause i say it would not. people don't ask for HE become VE they ask HE color to VE.



but see, ask for HE playable is just like asking for maghar orcs from outland, just because it was not what was asked for



they essentially are "the thing" only in red instead of blue banner

Like i said, half-elf would be the way to go in this situation, a compromise reflecting the exact situation of elves living wit humans and diluting their bloodline.

They would be bigger and muscular due to their human blood, yet they would have the elf characteristics and traits, They would be different thematically, Half-elves are different from normal elves since old days of the fantasy genres like dnd, they would reflect both their elves ancestry but also their human lineage within the alliance, and they would be mages, paladins and rangers all together.

This without an ass-pull justification, its a perfect compromise, But i don't know why helves are so adamant in requesting that, maybe its because they would "assume defeat" or something like that.

We are pointing out the differences but you don't want to see them. you only see what suits you to antagonize the desire we have to be able to play as High elves for the alliance; not void elves or blood elves.

Do you really think that both mag'har orcs and kul'tiran humans were made as BFA passed? Kul'tirans were released late BFA, just for the Allied Races campaign just like the Zandalari Troll.

Almost every race in the game has its own playerbase (even mechagnome, yes),we could attribute that point to anyone.

The height of NPCs is a wow badge. An important characters, for example; they are bigger than others because that attracts attention, and that doesn't make them a different race.

[FlubberPuddy]

Likewise, Vareesa (most notable alliance aligned high elf) wishes for blood elves and high elves to be reunited (see Three Sisters comic)... why? Cause they're the exact same people with only but a political difference. You say "buh buh pandarens"??? well pandaren were introduced as neutral, which is a completely different situation to what we have now.. where the majority of thalassian elves consits of a core horde race.

In the sense that she wants them to come over to the Alliance and still hates the Horde. Showing despite being "kin", her faction loyalty matters more.

Again, being "kin" or "same race" or "same species" doesn't mean shit. This thread is asking for a playable version of High Elves who call themselves High Elves on the Alliance. This group already exists on the Alliance. Their existence is real. Having a type of that high elf on Horde doesn't mean shit.

It would be like me trying to say Dark Irons shouldn't be their own race because "dwarves are their kin" and thus should be only customization options for already playable dwarves.

Every argument you or others throw at High Elves doesn't work when you apply it to the other available Allied Races. Because the message has been quite clear, Blizzard does whatever the fuck Blizzard wants.

Just as we're seeing them retcon what Chronicles was supposed to stand for, and now it's become "well this was written from that Titan's perspective". Blizzard changes whatever they want, on the fly, to suit whatever it is they're trying to do at the moment.

None of that will dissuade people from asking for what they want.

- - - Updated - - -

The hope for a High Elf Allied race is now pretty much gone. Hence the new found focus on Void Elves. Who knows, maybe they will give Void Elves the customizations you seek and not something closer to the monkey paw options Tenebra was posting recently. But as I keep telling you, Void Elves are Void Elves for a reason. They are a variant of a true High Elf, and a variant implies a level of difference. Your emotes will never be compatible with the fantasy, no matter what customization you have and no, they aren't going to record brand new ones for you. Your racials will never be compatible with the fantasy and no, they aren't going to give Void Elves reskinned racials based on your skin tone. What I am saying is, even if they give Void Elves every customization you are dreaming of (in itself doubtful, as Void Elves are intended as a variant and moving them closer to Blood Elves undermines that) you will still be playing a Void Elf, the Alliance High Elf, but NOT a traditional style High Elf. For that kind of Elf, you have to come to the Horde.

As the increased customizations coming to Trolls, Humans, Undead, and Dwarves showed so far. Majority of people don't give a fuck as long as they can at least look the part.

Why? Because visual aesthetics speak volumes for your character you're choosing to play the game with. This is why the outcry for origins of Mag'har died out very quickly, majority doesn't give a fuck because they can at least appear as a brown orc and just RP "yes I come from Outlands", but there's a difference between doing that and being a Green Orc and trying to RP the same thing - the disconnect is bigger.

Wildhammer Dwarves are coming through the increased customizations and most are overjoyed, even those that understand their racials are specific to mountain dwarves and mining/stones which aren't anything like Wildhammer Dwarf culture.

Also, you went on pretty big about faction integrity and still try to convince people that High Elves are a duplicate to Blood Elves. High Elves are defined by their faction loyalty to the Alliance, if we're going to put faction integrity as a hugely important thing, then High Elves being defined by this is hugely important as well. You relegate that part of the High Elf identity to nowhere and then focus on the look of just a race itself.

A Blood Elf will never be able to hang around stormwind without being attacked, nor do dungeons with gnomes/dwarves/humans, nor ride any of the Alliance specific mounts, wear any Alliance specific gear or use Alliance specific toys etc. Faction is a huuuuuge identity and the High Elves have shown they fight for the Alliance as recent as BfA.

They carry more presence within the Alliance than Horde Ogres do, yet trying to use that argument against adding Horde Ogres would seem stupid, just like it is here. "The Ogres barely have any presence outside Cataclysm, they're not part of Horde identity so Horde should never get them". Whereas High Elves fighting for Alliance has appeared since TBC, carried in WotLK, and even still in BfA.

You cannot on one hand say Faction identity is integral to the game then completely ignore/minimize the Faction integrity that a specific racial group holds, despite being similar in appearance.

Alliance High Elves are gung-ho Alliance members, doesn't matter how one tries to minimize it. Playing a Blood Elf is playing someone who is gung-ho Horde. Those two ideologies will never make sense. Regardless of a Blood Elf carrying Blue Eyes.

[Ielenia]

kul'tirans only became playable in 8.1, we had their difference since bfa reveal. they had a lot od fierence before becoming allied race.

And they only become allied race because the playerbase asked for, proving they didn't intend of being an allied race.

... Are you implying that Blizzard did not plan on making Kul'Tirans an allied race until they started developing the contents for patch 8.1.5? I mean, really?

I mean:
"Blizzard were not originally certain that they would be able to pull off Kul Tirans as an allied race from a technical and artistic point of view. Making a new playable race from scratch is one of the most time-consuming parts of an expansion's development, and as a result most allied races are variants of existing races. Kul Tirans are an exception to this norm, as they have a completely unique model with a new animation rig. In terms of art resources, this made them just as costly to create as, for example, the pandaren in Mists of Pandaria and more time-consuming than every other allied race combined. Because of this uncertainty, only Dark Iron dwarves and Zandalari trolls were announced as post-launch allied races at BlizzCon 2017. However, as development of Battle for Azeroth progressed, the team felt increasingly bad about this and felt that since the main story of 8.0 revolved around befriending the Zandalari and Kul Tirans, having both races become playable was what the story deserved. They realised that they could make Kul Tirans playable if they stretched, but it wasn't going to be able to happen until patch 8.1.5. Once this was settled, it made the most sense from a story perspective to pair the Kul Tirans with Zandalari. Thus, Zandalari were moved back until 8.1.5 so they could be released alongside Kul Tirans, while Mag'har orcs, originally slated for 8.1.5, were moved forward to 8.0 as the Horde equivalent to Dark Irons."

Sounds like they have been planning the Kul'Tirans as an allied race for quite some time, since before the expansion went live, and not just "in the nick of time due to player demands" like you claimed.

because our maghar not come from outland, but from alternate draenor, if you go to outland you see they being bigger, Garrosh and drannosh were bigger too.

So what? NPC sizes vary. Many tend to be bigger than players, despite being the exact same race.

in fact i do believed that, they even delayed zandalari to come with kul'tirans, their lack of customization also proof that

Then your ignorance, i.e., your lack of knowledge, is showing.

They didn't suffer that much, is what im saying, its was not a cross to bear, the problem was worse for children and old people.

And yes, time was not enough to change a race, especially a race that quickly had their magic font replenished, suffering starvation of magic would not make then "muscular" in any account, and would not be enough for mere 2 years

If fat and muscle is enough to warrant a new playable race, then the same could be done for high elves. Hell, they could even go the Kul'Tiras route and have the playable high elves just be a part of the high elves that trained their bodies in a different way to deal with the pangs of their addiction, much like the entire Kul'Tiras human race is comprised of 'thin humans', 'normal humans' and 'fat humans', but the playable race can only be 'fat humans'.

they are so few that i think they would do that yes, especially the ones living in dalaran.

Source on that "they are so few"? For all we know, the amount of HEs in dalaran would mean a shortage on magic items in the long run.

that would make no sense, when a race enter a period of starvation or little resources they don't grow bigger or muscular, they grow tiny and weaker, elves do not have the biotype of orcs or trolls to grow bigger in a danger environment like the drakkari/amani by example.

It makes sense when you have a little knowledge about addictions and ways to deal with the withdrawal. Exercising the body is a great way to deal with the physical effects of an addiction, and we know that the magic withdrawal caused by the destruction of the Sunwell does has physical effects on the elves' bodies.

without their magic they pale, like night elves going high elves, and wretched(?)

Blood elves and high elves become wretched (and therefore paler) by overindulging on mana consumption.

yes, they can look like high elf, but they would not be "the high elf", that people idolize, they would change, thats the delicate point and would be or could be VE situation all ove again.

This is because you have convinced yourself that all the pro-high elf here care for is "the blood elf model in the Alliance".

i know that, but did you read what i put? the green orcs bloodfury was enhanced and empowered by demon blood, something maghar don't have it.

It's irrelevant since we've been shown that it's been shown to be just as deadly. If anything, the Mag'har orcs seem to relish in the blood lust, except for the Frostwolves.

If VE would come from HE you think would make any difference? cause i say it would not. people don't ask for HE become VE they ask HE color to VE.

It would, for me. After all, I have been saying that for the longest time.

[Syegfryed]

We are pointing out the differences but you don't want to see them

there is literally no physical differences dude, i already pointed out and showed to you, the only difference is political.

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... Are you implying that Blizzard did not plan on making Kul'Tirans an allied race until they started developing the contents for patch 8.1.5? I mean, really?

no, im implying they didn't mean to be an allied race, they decided after the playerbase feedback and they come in 8.1.

So what? NPC sizes vary. Many tend to be bigger than players, despite being the exact same race.

the magha npcs were also bigger then the green orcs npcs

Then your ignorance, i.e., your lack of knowledge, is showing

sure, start the calling names

If fat and muscle is enough to warrant a new playable race, then the same could be done for high elves. Hell, they could even go the Kul'Tiras route and have the playable high elves just be a part of the high elves that trained their bodies in a different way to deal with the pangs of their addiction, much like the entire Kul'Tiras human race is comprised of 'thin humans', 'normal humans' and 'fat humans', but the playable race can only be 'fat humans'.

your are of course implying here tht high elf biology is the same as human biology and they would exactyl the same even with different enviroments.

the "fat kul'tirans are not like that because they spend some years doing push ups, they are a different breed of humans adapted to harsh conditions whoptake some generation to be like that.

and of course i bet my left nut you would not want a Fat elf.

Source on that "they are so few"? For all we know, the amount of HEs in dalaran would mean a shortage on magic items in the long run.

in the wiki you can find how the HE are few even in human cities, the silver covenant is a small terrorist group anyway.

It makes sense when you have a little knowledge about addictions and ways to deal with the withdrawal. Exercising the body is a great way to deal with the physical effects of an addiction, and we know that the magic withdrawal caused by the destruction of the Sunwell does has physical effects on the elves' bodies

.

you are implying that the magic withdrawal is the same as some cigarette or weed addiction, magic was their font of energy, their "food" when you alck you grow weaker, not stronger, elf bodies are not human humans.

Blood elves and high elves become wretched (and therefore paler) by overindulging on mana consumption.

also by the lack of it.

This is because you have convinced yourself that all the pro-high elf here care for is "the blood elf model in the Alliance".

the high elves convinced me of that, and they always make sure to remember it, if its not the elf model, or a better elf model, its not good for then.

It's irrelevant since we've been shown that it's been shown to be just as deadly.

not as deadly, the green orcs is stronger and powerful, stayed ingame.

If anything, the Mag'har orcs seem to relish in the blood lust, except for the Frostwolves.

the maghar didn't even had that as racial showing is not that strong.

It would, for me. After all, I have been saying that for the longest time.

you are one in a million, most people who i talk never would be ok with that anyway.

For me they should make HE also undergo their ritual, and still make the half-elves playable, win-win scenario.

[Manariel]

Regarding the recurrent question/statement that VE would either be better received if they were High Elves or that they are the playable Alliance High Elves, it rest on a fundamental misunderstanding.

Everything in the VE reeks of Blood Elven mentality. They got turned into those aberrations not because of some grand event where they unwittingly absorbed so much Void energy that it changed them. They got turned because they actively and for years sought out ways to control an extremely dangerous and corruptive power, far deadlier than even arcane, which is addictive and easy to abuse, and at least on par with the Fel.

And this is utterly incompatible with the High Elves as they exist in the game. Because their entire reason for existing is that they find such vehavior loathsome. Some of them even went so far as to ban any magical elements of their culture (in Quel'Danil) to not repeat the mistakes of the past.

That the Void Elves realized that the Horde couldn't be trusted with such knowledge and power is a point in their favor, but it doesn't make them High Elves. They are just an extreme sect oàf Blood Elves which got burned by their quest for unnecessary and deadly powers. Whichbis fundamentaly at odds with who the High Elves are today. because the only one who have the right to shape the meaning of those two words, High Elves, are those who still use them and forge a new way forward for their people, i.e. the inhabitants of Quel'Danil and the Silver Covenant, mainly.

And yes, they don't have the full thalassian culture. It's normal, and it's called creolisation. Caribbean peoples have distinct cultures today, which are neither fully European nor fully African. But they are fully Carribeans. Same with the High Elves over time.

Edit - as a side note, I find it kind of funny that Horde/BE players says that we only care about aesthetics and that HE would steal a good deal of BE lore and all when VE have done that far more and deeply than anything HE could, because up to one seconds before the ritual, VE were still BE while HE and BE have been separated by 15+ years.

It would have honestly been easy to have the VE join the Horde, not much changes would have been required from their questline. They could still be banned form approaching the Sunwell, for instance, but serve the Horde and Quel'Thalas.

[Ielenia]

no, im implying they didn't mean to be an allied race, they decided after the playerbase feedback and they come in 8.1.

Then you are wrong.

sure, start the calling names

I'm not calling you names. I'm simply pointing out your lack of knowledge. Do inform yourself before making wild claims like Kul'tiras not being originally planned as an allied race.

your are of course implying here tht high elf biology is the same as human biology and they would exactyl the same even with different enviroments.

I'm not saying it's the exact same, but they seem to be "the same" where it counts, considering they have bones, muscles, blood, etc, and judging by the musculature shown on male humans and male blood elves, they seem to have also very similar muscle structure.

the "fat kul'tirans are not like that because they spend some years doing push ups, they are a different breed of humans adapted to harsh conditions whoptake some generation to be like that.

This entire line of "adapted to harsh conditions" is bollocks considering we still have normal humans and thin humans in Kul'Tiras, which shows that the 'strong and fat' thing is not a genetic adaptation and just them training their bodies to look like that (and heartily eating too, I imagine).

and of course i bet my left nut you would not want a Fat elf.

I would take fat high elves over void elves any day.

in the wiki you can find how the HE are few even in human cities,

"Being few" and "being few enough to be able to consume magic artifacts without a problem" are two wildly different statements.

the silver covenant is a small terrorist group anyway.

Careful: your bias is showing.

you are implying that the magic withdrawal is the same as some cigarette or weed addiction, magic was their font of energy, their "food" when you alck you grow weaker, not stronger, elf bodies are not human humans.

I never implied that. I simply pointed out possible lore hooks that could be used to justify physical differences. Mana was not the thalassian elves' food. If it was their food, they'd die without it, but they didn't, did they? It was an addiction, called as such numerous times.

also by the lack of it.

No not confuse the wretched with the withered. Blood elves only become wretched when they overindulge. Withered, on the other hand, are nightborne who are depleted of mana.

not as deadly, the green orcs is stronger and powerful, stayed ingame.

the maghar didn't even had that as racial showing is not that strong.

I have not seen nor heard of any green orc falling prey to blood lust... but I did see mag'har orcs going through it.

you are one in a million, most people who i talk never would be ok with that anyway.

You'll forgive me for not taking your word at face value, considering your post history and stance in this thread.

- - - Updated - - -

Regarding the recurrent question/statement that VE would either be better received if they were High Elves or that they are the playable Alliance High Elves, it rest on a fundamental misunderstanding.

Everything in the VE reeks of Blood Elven mentality. They got turned into those aberrations not because of some grand event where they unwittingly absorbed so much Void energy that it changed them. They got turned because they actively and for years sought out ways to control an extremely dangerous and corruptive power, far deadlier than even arcane, which is addictive and easy to abuse, and at least on par with the Fel.

And this is utterly incompatible with the High Elves as they exist in the game. Because their entire reason for existing is that they find such vehavior loathsome. Some of them even went so far as to ban any magical elements of their culture (in Quel'Danil) to not repeat the mistakes of the past.

My idea for that is that a group of HE magisters from Dalaran were emboldened by Alleria's recent dealings with the void to try the same thing.

That the Void Elves realized that the Horde couldn't be trusted with such knowledge and power is a point in their favor, but it doesn't make them High Elves.

The void elves never "realized that". They didn't leave the Horde by their own will: they were banished from Silvermoon by Lor'themar Theron because of their research of the void. They only joined the Alliance because Alleria rescued them.

[Redzonetode]

Like... are you so depraved that you can't see other people happy and fulfilled? Does your existence worsen if someone else's improves? Sheesh.
.

Your existence will be improved solely by high elves being added to a video game..?

[The Silver Covenant]

Your existence will be improved solely by high elves being added to a video game..?

I can't speak for that guy, but mine would be. Only reason I've enjoyed Warcraft since I was literally five years old are High Elves. The race has been conspicuously absent for too long. It's like everyone gets to enjoy WoW to its fullest extent except for the game's oldest fans who just want to play an Elven Archer with tattoos and unicorn heraldry. Despite otherwise enjoying WoW, it's disappointing to see everyone else enjoy their favorite nerd universe more because the one thing that makes me a fan of the game has gone unfulfilled since WoW's inception. It doubly stings because Blizzard doesn't care and its representatives just say "muh the Horde is waiting for you."

[scubi666stacy]

I can't speak for that guy, but mine would be. Only reason I've enjoyed Warcraft since I was literally five years old are High Elves. The race has been conspicuously absent for too long. It's like everyone gets to enjoy WoW to its fullest extent except for the game's oldest fans who just want to play an Elven Archer with tattoos and unicorn heraldry. Despite otherwise enjoying WoW, it's disappointing to see everyone else enjoy their favorite nerd universe more because the one thing that makes me a fan of the game has gone unfulfilled since WoW's inception. It doubly stings because Blizzard doesn't care and its representatives just say "muh the Horde is waiting for you."

You have 2 Elven races on the Alliance, and Night Elves are even better as wood dwellers then High Elves could ever be. High Elves in WoW RTS games are boring, they are bland, they are not even as iconic as Tolkien Elves who have so many special things told about them in the Silmarillion. They are a stupid rip-off from Warhammer, and only after they have become Blood Elves they got a special, unique identity. This identity got watered down a bit by the restoration of the Sunwell, but still - they are HIGH ELVES. And they have decided to join the Horde. This is the lore of this people. Your "Alliance" "High Elves" and Void Elves are both dissidents and/or exiles - and Void Elves are the only one who form a coherend group, while the "High Elves" do not even all belong to Alliance, many are part of the Kirin Tor (which should be a neutral organisation once again, and stay this way for the rest of time) or even somehow independent. The only other Elven group in WoW which does matter as a people are the Nightborne. And Void Elves at least have the plot device function to them, getting an iconic NPC as a leader and Void shenanigans which probably will be very important soon.

High Elves have nothing interesting about them anymore, and nothing special to contribute to the story. If Blizzard decides to do some asspull of a different, formerly hidden High Elf region which could be en par with Quel'Thalas in extense and population numbers, High Elves should stay what they are: NPCs.

[The Silver Covenant]

You have 2 Elven races on the Alliance, and Night Elves are even better as wood dwellers then High Elves could ever be. High Elves in WoW RTS games are boring, they are bland, they are not even as iconic as Tolkien Elves who have so many special things told about them in the Silmarillion. They are a stupid rip-off from Warhammer, and only after they have become Blood Elves they got a special, unique identity. This identity got watered down a bit by the restoration of the Sunwell, but still - they are HIGH ELVES. And they have decided to join the Horde.

This is actually hilarious to read, and shows that you either didn't pay attention during the RTS games or are badly misinformed. The Quel'dorei were always brooding anti-hero types, just as the Sin'dorei are today, starting with their introduction in Warcraft II. Giving the Blood Elves to the Horde legit both watered them down and removed something essential from the Alliance. Instead of being the spiteful Warcraft twist on traditional elves being part of the shining good faction, they became asshole elves on the faction full of asshole races. Allowing the High Elves who remained with the Alliance every step of the way, even though Blizzard's decision to balance the factions by giving Silvermoon and Blood Elves to the Horde, would do a lot to restore something essential that Warcraft lost along the way to today.

[Syegfryed]

Then you are wrong.

sure

Do inform yourself before making wild claims like Kul'tiras not being originally planned as an allied race.[/URL]

you know that don't refute what i said right?

I'm not saying it's the exact same, but they seem to be "the same" where it counts, considering they have bones, muscles, blood, etc, and judging by the musculature shown on male humans and male blood elves, they seem to have also very similar muscle structure.

they rly don't, they are tiny and less muscular than humans, no way a race would reach a kul'tiran or a normal human lv, just because 2 years of hardwork.

This entire line of "adapted to harsh conditions" is bollocks considering we still have normal humans and thin humans in Kul'Tiras, which shows that the 'strong and fat' thing is not a genetic adaptation and just them training their bodies to look like that (and heartily eating too, I imagine).

but the normal and thin humans do not do the same thing of kul'tirans, they obvious are different and that difference is going for their descendants as well, maybe that breed of humans come long ago and are still passing their genes.

Honestly at this point they being somehow related in blood to the drust is just logical

I would take fat high elves over void elves any day.

be careful what you wish for, before people would sk for HE in another color too.

"Being few" and "being few enough to be able to consume magic artifacts without a problem" are two wildly different statements.

i would say yes, it would be enough, since the grow up would not need that much, a few, in a city of mages, would be enough, i remember even reading about they draining from the humans.

I never implied that. I simply pointed out possible lore hooks that could be used to justify physical differences. Mana was not the thalassian elves' food. If it was their food, they'd die without it, but they didn't, did they? It was an addiction, called as such numerous times.

the problem is those "lore hooks" make no sense with the actual lore. And i said "food", not actual food, but they did die without it, some of then did, ad addiction like that is not healed by "body training" and they only were cured by the cleaning of the sunwell.

No not confuse the wretched with the withered. Blood elves only become wretched when they overindulge. Withered, on the other hand, are nightborne who are depleted of mana.

i pretty sure before normal elves also languish without mana

I have not seen nor heard of any green orc falling prey to blood lust... but I did see mag'har orcs going through it.

Grom did that, a lot, especially in the wc3 campaign. Blizz is not focusing on green orcs lately and showing their bloodlust anyway.

Anyway, its in the lore, the green orcs bloodfury was empowered by manoroth blood, demon's curse.

You'll forgive me for not taking your word at face value, considering your post history and stance in this thread.

you don't need to take my word, you can just read other elf supporters reply, not just mine or people who are against, you will find that people are rly adamant of only wanting one thing and one thing alone.

- - - Updated - - -

I can't speak for that guy, but mine would be. Only reason I've enjoyed Warcraft since I was literally five years old are High Elves. The race has been conspicuously absent for too long. It's like everyone gets to enjoy WoW to its fullest extent except for the game's oldest fans who just want to play an Elven Archer with tattoos and unicorn heraldry. Despite otherwise enjoying WoW, it's disappointing to see everyone else enjoy their favorite nerd universe more because the one thing that makes me a fan of the game has gone unfulfilled since WoW's inception. It doubly stings because Blizzard doesn't care and its representatives just say "muh the Horde is waiting for you."

nice try going for the, sentimental card, the appeal of emotion, but if you are so fan of high elves, maybe you should play warcraft3, and see the fate of the high elf race, and why they, with their people, their kingdom and everything else are on horde now.

[The Silver Covenant]

sure
nice try going for the, sentimental card, the appeal of emotion, but if you are so fan of high elves, maybe you should play warcraft3, and see the fate of the high elf race, and why they, with their people, their kingdom and everything else are on horde now.

TFT does not explain why they joined the Horde. That flimsy lore happens in TBC, and doesn't make a ton of sense to this day.

[Syegfryed]

TFT does not explain why they joined the Horde. That flimsy lore happens in TBC, and doesn't make a ton of sense to this day.

explain why they left the alliance for good, and TBC kinda explain, just not well, and it makes ok sense.