Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Black Goat]

"Blizzard said so, trust me." is not an answer.

You just took something Blizzard said and added your own spin to it. Blizzard never said "high elves aren't happening" or "high elves are dead on arrival". This is just you making stuff up.

They never will say those words. Are you familiar with "public relations"? Ion did say:

"If you want to be a fair skinned, light haired, blue eyed elf...sorry, the horde is there waiting for you"

-Game Director Ion Hazzikostas

The comment was made on a Blizzard Live Q&A on April 26th, 2018.

Which isn't a never, but as someone who understands PR very well, that's him saying "No." Blizzard won't allow him to say it more directly, so he answered the question in a very "human resources" way, AKA "letting them down softly". You can divine whatever you'd like from his statement because it isn't absolute and another Director could take over and change that. But he elaborated that there are currently no plans to add High Elves as a playable race to the Alliance. I, personally, take his statement as an absolute "No" in the face of a request that borders on futility and redundancy.

For PR reasons, companies RARELY say "never". That's common sense.

It's a plain statement that the pro-community has desperately tried to discern a shred of hope from. It's been a request for over a decade, they've answered. Some of us accept the reality, others clearly do not.

[Manariel]

So wait, what do you want exactly? Do you want the Silver Covenant/Highvale High elves who are in the game (and who look identical to Blood and Void elves as far as posture is concerned), or do you want some unique High elves that exist only in your fantasy? Because pretty sure this thread is about the former.

Nothing prevent Blizzard from retconning their lore - again - and say that High Elves actually never reconnected with the Sunwell, to change their appearance. Or have them being severed from it and changed physically because of it. And as long as they are the Silver Covenant elves and the highvales, I'll be happy.

[Paraka]

you could say that the BE model is the mutated thalassian elves model and the new HE model is the original (It's just an idea)

I am actually curious here, in what form are you insisting BE, and by extension VE, are different enough from HE that a physiological change could be (and should be) considered?

[Ielenia]

They never will say those words. Are you familiar with "public relations"? Ion did say:



The comment was made on a Blizzard Live Q&A on April 26th, 2018.

Which isn't a never, but as someone who understands PR very well, that's him saying "No." Blizzard won't allow him to say it more directly, so he answered the question in a very "human resources" way, AKA "letting them down softly". You can divine whatever you'd like from his statement because it isn't absolute and another Director could take over and change that. But he elaborated that there are currently no plans to add High Elves as a playable race to the Alliance. I, personally, take his statement as an absolute "No" in the face of a request that borders on futility and redundancy.

For PR reasons, companies RARELY say "never". That's common sense.

It's a plain statement that the pro-community has desperately tried to discern a shred of hope from. It's been a request for over a decade, they've answered. Some of us accept the reality, others clearly do not.

And I could link you to the infamous "wall of NO" that was posted and reposted almost every time someone made a thread asking for official vanilla servers. And look where we are, today.

I can also show you Blizzard's "PR speak" for "demon hunters aren't happening", too.

All that aside, you are over a week late to this conversation. The poster I replied to literally said those were Blizzard's words, that "high elves are never happening".

[Shakana]

Nothing prevent Blizzard from retconning their lore - again - and say that High Elves actually never reconnected with the Sunwell, to change their appearance. Or have them being severed from it and changed physically because of it. And as long as they are the Silver Covenant elves and the highvales, I'll be happy.

I love your name <3 It's so elven!

[Black Goat]

And I could link you to the infamous "wall of NO" that was posted and reposted almost every time someone made a thread asking for official vanilla servers. And look where we are, today.

I can also show you Blizzard's "PR speak" for "demon hunters aren't happening", too.

All that aside, you are over a week late to this conversation. The poster I replied to literally said those were Blizzard's words, that "high elves are never happening".

"Infamous 'wall of NO'"? I've never heard of it. I clearly said that the statement wasn't absolute. Perhaps re-read my post if you're going to leverage that aspect of the quote.

Link me official statements. Show me the PR speak. Don't be the person who asks for citations yet presents none. That's disingenuous and you know it. I don't care about what you "could" do. Do it or sit down.

There are no time statutes to open forum discussions. I didn't necro the thread, so I'm not sure what point you are attempting to make. The implication that I'm "late" to the conversation could be said for the entire pro-High Elf community.

[protip]

It also makes no sense and still irrelevant. the proof is that humans can procreate hybrids with elves. being races (that is supposed to be) very different physiological, anatomically and genetically (if you want to set those patterns as a significant difference). Those are plotholes that can be found in any story.
Wow's narrative is not perfect

It's not a plot hole at all. There are physiological differences between all organisms that are even slightly different, even twins. If they say that Blood Elves and high elves are as physiologically similar as members of the same race, then they should appear as members of the same race.

political and phenotypical

There's a discussion to be had about culture, but "phenotype" doesn't really suit the discussion. If there is one thing we can draw from the statement that "High elves and blood elves are physiologically the same race," it is that they do not differ in physical characteristics, which leaves only behavior as an observable difference, so we might as well be specific. I'm not going to go through the whole culture debate today, that's a separate topic.

the 9% who stayed in Quel'Thalas had to do it, the 1% that did not do so was exiled.

uh... yeah, remember the reason they were exiled

Magic siphoning is not fel magic.

[Shakana]

I am actually curious here, in what form are you insisting BE, and by extension VE, are different enough from HE that a physiological change could be (and should be) considered?

Ok, let me try explain what he means or at least what i'm understanding from it. This game has suffered a lot of changes on appearances, even Sylvanas character was a night elf that later was a bloody eyes with normal belf model, then it's a unique model.

Original High Elves, could have a original look, but as you have seen high elves/blood elves with the same appearance and just differentiate them from the eyes, and even on the game, they are exactly like blood elves with different colored eyes. But if blizzard did a general change, to High elves, and explained that blood elves are the ones that got mutated and be who they are, then you would have 2 different elves in terms of looks.

I go a bit further on that and say, that High elves could evolve, as night elves evolved into so many other elves. Why stopping now anyway? They have a big "family".
So, the blood elves, got mutated, and that's it, like, with fel exposure, for me it would make sense for them to not evolve anymore, cause they entered in contact with fel and god knows what it can do. Maybe even prevent them from evolving anymore. What comes from blood elves in terms of evolving now, it's always related to dark/fel/or at most recent, void.

I mean, look at this big "happy family", coming from night elves:



Most funny part is how they all still exist tho. And so, High Elves as we know could still exist, but some could evolve, just like the Night Elves and Nightborne.

Even more funny is that, ancient elves still are alive, and all other evolved elves are too alive.

= High elves could evolve, and still be known as the high elves that are similar to blood elves. But playable could have different appearances.
Depending on what or where they were exposed to be able to happen this evolution.

[Maljinwo]

I mean, look at this big "happy family", coming from night elves

Just a quick correction. All trolls come from Zandalari, so they should be at the top!

[Shakana]

Just a quick correction. All trolls come from Zandalari, so they should be at the top!

Wasn't me doing this, but yes, i agree, but still is not that important, because i'm showing the night elves from above to bellow

[Paraka]

= High elves could evolve, and still be known as the high elves that are similar to blood elves. But playable could have different appearances.
Depending on what or where they were exposed to be able to happen this evolution.

Wait... So you would want Blizzard to retcon something because they have a record of doing so, a record in which has been lambasted for doing so repeatedly by so much of the community, because you'd personally feel it'd be good practice to fix something you felt is broken/missing?

Not attacking you, but this feels very selfish to say your retcon is the only good one cause you benefit. Most previous examples are simply because they recycled models, you see it much of the time with dragons and proto drakes. But no one is arguing they're the same. But Elves is where we stop the buck? After all this time sprinkling in HE here and there with BE models? Curious as to why you would feel they deserve such a revamp.

And I could link you to the infamous "wall of NO" that was posted and reposted almost every time someone made a thread asking for official vanilla servers. And look where we are, today.

I can also show you Blizzard's "PR speak" for "demon hunters aren't happening", too.

All that aside, you are over a week late to this conversation. The poster I replied to literally said those were Blizzard's words, that "high elves are never happening".

Playing the devil's advocate here; but as many examples you can show that "no" changed, others can show you that "yes" ideas has too. Maybe even moreso than the few no they have done.

The High Elf may appear much differently than you expect, hell it is the reason VE even came to be. Blizzard believed the HE populous is very minuscule to do anything with. Otherwise... Why else would they make Blood Elves the originators of the VE race and tell more of the story that HE are being folded in from the Alliance end? Why couldn't they just tell a story of the few HE becoming this race in its entirety? Occam's Razor suggests it's because Blizz does not see the HE being that big. They literally include a Horde race for an example of bolstered ranks.

Honestly, Blizz made VE to be the Alliance answer for this. And being one of the more popular ARs currently, I wouldn't put them passed the idea that Blizzard may make plans to add more options to AR (which they should anyway, NB and HMT are drastically slim) and with that more "HE inspired" options along with them.

Actively the HE don't even have an established home, I am certain they can excuse it by saying a few sought to dabble in Void and excepted their new place in doing so. It'd excuse the options from being overtly purple, but also make a reason why the racial still triggers.

And honestly, I do not seeing Blizzard even stepping that far to do it. Let alone making a whole new race.

[Shakana]

Wait... So you would want Blizzard to retcon something because they have a record of doing so, a record in which has been lambasted for doing so repeatedly by so much of the community, because you'd personally feel it'd be good practice to fix something you felt is broken/missing?

Not attacking you, but this feels very selfish to say your retcon is the only good one cause you benefit. Most previous examples are simply because they recycled models, you see it much of the time with dragons and proto drakes. But no one is arguing they're the same. But Elves is where we stop the buck? After all this time sprinkling in HE here and there with BE models? Curious as to why you would feel they deserve such a revamp.

Why to everything new people need to say "retcon" now? A game that has the lore in stand-by for years, nothing new is added, is called always "retcon", can't they just evolve their chars now? I don't get your fear of change, and going forward. I don't want to be stuck on the same lore for years, the game evolves, the characters does too.
The world can all be mutated in a minute and a second.

Why do i want such a revamp? Isn't it obvious? I have repeated many times and so does people, until the day they don't get a revamp, people will always have a excuse to say "but they are just blood elves, with different colored eyes" "if you want high elves they are on the horde".

Political views ain't enough to make the High elves playable, then change their appearance too. That way you won't have 2 of the same appearance elves. Actually 3, void elves only are recognizable because of the skin color and hairs.

[Manariel]

I love your name <3 It's so elven!

Thanks ! It's the name of my new main, a VE Huntress

Alas, poor me, if I had done an hunter of any other AR, I'd fallen in love with those instead of the VE, I think !

[Paraka]

Why to everything new people need to say "retcon" now? A game that has the lore in stand-by for years, nothing new is added, is called always "retcon", can't they just evolve their chars now? I don't get your fear of change, and going forward. I don't want to be stuck on the same lore for years, the game evolves, the characters does too.
The world can all be mutated in a minute and a second.

Why do i want such a revamp? Isn't it obvious? I have repeated many times and so does people, until the day they don't get a revamp, people will always have a excuse to say "but they are just blood elves, with different colored eyes" "if you want high elves they are on the horde".

Political views ain't enough to make the High elves playable, then change their appearance too. That way you won't have 2 of the same appearance elves. Actually 3, void elves only are recognizable because of the skin color and hairs.

I am referring to the previous statement as you also labeled it as a retcon. And actively, it sort of is. Changing which has been consistent (by drop fed practices) isn't evolution if you're saying the experience til now have changed prior to it.

I ask you this: In what suggestion would expose HE to so uniquely them that ONLY HE are effected in the same amount of time we've been playing, lorewise, along side them that they are now so uniquely altered? And how would this change make them so different but also same enough to still be High Elves?

[Varodoc]

Nothing prevent Blizzard from retconning their lore - again - and say that High Elves actually never reconnected with the Sunwell, to change their appearance. Or have them being severed from it and changed physically because of it. And as long as they are the Silver Covenant elves and the highvales, I'll be happy.

Ah okay, so you do not actually want the Silver Covenant/Highvale elves, you just want a completely new flavor of Thalassian elves which exist only in your imagination. Got it.

[Shakana]

Thanks ! It's the name of my new main, a VE Huntress

Alas, poor me, if I had done an hunter of any other AR, I'd fallen in love with those instead of the VE, I think !

Was really well selected. I have to say. Would catch my attention in game xD
I love the void elves. To be honest. Just sad i can't stand the alliance. ahahah i love my horde, i love their lore, and at alliance, i just like VE, dwarfs and humans (humans because they have such deep lore, and even when Varyan died i almost teared down. I actually liked that guy)

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I am referring to the previous statement as you also labeled it as a retcon. And actively, it sort of is. Changing which has been consistent (by drop fed practices) isn't evolution if you're saying the experience til now have changed prior to it.

I ask you this: In what suggestion would expose HE to so uniquely them that ONLY HE are effected in the same amount of time we've been playing, lorewise, along side them that they are now so uniquely altered? And how would this change make them so different but also same enough to still be High Elves?

I didn't say i labeled as retcon, i even said instead of retcon, it was a creative going forward on story telling, evolving type on the game. Not a retcon.
"Lorewise" it's still there, High Elves evolving as the night elves did for many years, ain't a retcon, is giving a continuation.

Retcon meaning: by introducing a piece of new information that imposes a different interpretation on previously described events.

A continuation, evolving, it's not a different interpretation of previous events, in this case, the lore.

[TheBajaBlaster]

people will always have a excuse to say "but they are just blood elves, with different colored eyes" "if you want high elves they are on the horde".

The reason people have an excuse to say this is because it is literally the lore of the warcraft universe. blood elves and high elves are literally the exact same thing. The high elves, after being exiled from Kalimdor by the night elves after the war of the ancients, literally renamed themselves the blood elves after arthas pillaged quel'thalas and desecrated the sunwell.

Let me state that again. The high elves renamed themselves blood elves during the events of warcraft three.

Every time I see you idiots post about wanting the high elves as a playable race and wanting the high elves to have different models than the blood elves, it makes me sick that people who think they know enough about the lore to distinguish blood elves from high elves actually don't know anything at all.

Ion even said himself in a Blizzcon panel (I believe, might have been Gamescom) that high elves would not be a playable race because the blood elves are the high elves.

They are not "similar." They are the same. The high elves BECAME the blood elves, through NOTHING MORE THAN RENAMING THEIR PEOPLE BY CHOICE.

[Paraka]

Was really well selected. I have to say. Would catch my attention in game xD
I love the void elves. To be honest. Just sad i can't stand the alliance. ahahah i love my horde, i love their lore, and at alliance, i just like VE, dwarfs and humans (humans because they have such deep lore, and even when Varyan died i almost teared down. I actually liked that guy)

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I didn't say i labeled as retcon, i even said instead of retcon, it was a creative going forward on story telling, evolving type on the game. Not a retcon.
"Lorewise" it's still there, High Elves evolving as the night elves did for many years, ain't a retcon, is giving a continuation.

Retcon meaning: by introducing a piece of new information that imposes a different interpretation on previously described events.

A continuation, evolving, it's not a different interpretation of previous events, in this case, the lore.

That doesn't answer my latter question: What would be so critically changing to happen to the HE since Legion (last time we saw Silver Covenant HE) that they no longer look like their old selves but yet still be considered HE?

[Shakana]

The reason people have an excuse to say this is because it is literally the lore of the warcraft universe. blood elves and high elves are literally the exact same thing. The high elves, after being exiled from Kalimdor by the night elves after the war of the ancients, literally renamed themselves the blood elves after arthas pillaged quel'thalas and desecrated the sunwell.

Let me state that again. The high elves renamed themselves blood elves during the events of warcraft three.

Every time I see you idiots post about wanting the high elves as a playable race and wanting the high elves to have different models than the blood elves, it makes me sick that people who think they know enough about the lore to distinguish blood elves from high elves actually don't know anything at all.

Ion even said himself in a Blizzcon panel (I believe, might have been Gamescom) that high elves would not be a playable race because the blood elves are the high elves.

They are not "similar." They are the same. The high elves BECAME the blood elves, through NOTHING MORE THAN RENAMING THEIR PEOPLE BY CHOICE.

But there's a failure in their "lore" sense, because other high elves, stayed high elves, so there's a fissure there, and that's why it triggers the high elf playable race discussion. That little fissure, will always be wanted. They stopped being the High Elves to be Blood Elves, while Silver covenant and others remains the high elves that didn't go through what blood elves did, or got mutated due to it.

Therefore, there will always be that side of players standing on the dark, desiring to have those same high elves available to play. You can't just ignore this fact: There's still High Elf - blue eyed ones. So much that are even turned into void elves too.

So this means, that you can have as well enough High Elves still. And man Dalaran is filled with them. Even on my Mage class hall. You just go closer, and see all have blue eyes.

This triggers players into thinking they can exist. By your logic, then evolved Night elves, shouldn't be playable, because there's nightbornes, and even High/Blood elves that came after that should be the ones playable. It's safe to say that High Elves are even oldest and more well known than the Void Elves that were added as playable.

High elves should indeed have received more attention.

If High elves all of them would have turned into Blood Elves, there was no fissure. But that wasn't the case.

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That doesn't answer my latter question: What would be so critically changing to happen to the HE since Legion (last time we saw Silver Covenant HE) that they no longer look like their old selves but yet still be considered HE?

Well, i can't have all the creativity in the world to think about that yet! xD But i can say there's many ways they could still be introduced. Variations of elves happened through centuries. What made the other ones change? Some because they didn't had their mana addiction (withered), for example, Everything and anything can cause them to change.

I can be open minded, instead of focusing on the lore all the time, can't i? Is it forbidden? xD

[Manariel]

Ah okay, so you do not actually want the Silver Covenant/Highvale elves, you just want a completely new flavor of Thalassian elves which exist only in your imagination. Got it.

no, I want those elves. Not the crappy "fix" of the VE. but if Blizzard truly is dumb enough to say "You can't have them because they look like BE!" then I'd prefer them to change their appearance slightly.