Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Broflake]

You said that the only difference between BE and HE is the mana tap. Then you bring a Blizzard reference where they say that the case of corruption suffered by blood elves is extremely similar to that suffered by the orcs. What happened to Orcs? And why does that change make them a different race from the Mag'har? (not only in lore, but also in their visual)

Pardon but...what?
I have never seen any statements where maghar orcs are a different race from regular orcs.


Like regular orcs.


I will tell you for the last time since I have expressed my personal idea on multiple occasions:
- Integrate HEs as a separate race (whether they are an allied race or not) by molding them with characteristics similar to BE but with certain minimal differences that are enough to not confuse them with BE. (not like the ones they did with VE)
- lore (similar to Mag'har): all HE groups throughout azeroth gathered under a single banner, the Alliance


Not at all, it's your idea. you are totally free to share it



if you google blood elves what do you see?
What I see is a group of tanned skin elves with green eyes and imposing but vain looking.

If you change its aspects by giving them characteristics such as: pale skin with a pale and bluish hair color and the pillar of their image (their stigma) changed for blue eyes, what would you have? a HE of the alliance in the horde. a total identity break
The same happened with VE and worst, because they are blood elves directly, on the opposite side. (no matter how many tentacles you want to put on them, they were directly BE)[/QUOTE]

[Ignaz]

Ok, so thanks for explaining. I guess you missed the part where he said "if you were a high elf in Quel'thalas or Outland."

And you missed the part where I said that those blue-eyed blood elves are just uncorrupted elves (politically BE and phenotypically HE). That is not the face of the Horde. (green eyes / tanned skin).

You have generalized that fel corruption to all blood elves, which is simply not accurate.

I never said that the entire population of blood elves was corrupt. The vast majority was corrupted by fel magic.
The personification of those thalassian elves who represent the Horde are Blood elves (green eyes and tanned skin) and the personification of those thalassian elves that represent the Alliance are HE (pale skin and pale hair tones with blue eyes)

There you have a few named examples, and there are several blue eyed Sunreaver NPCs, such as the Sunreaver Captain and Frosthand

Cool

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Pardon but...what?
I have never seen any statements where maghar orcs are a different race from regular orcs.

So why are they an allied race and not a customization for regular orcs?

[protip]

And you missed the part where I said that those blue-eyed blood elves are just uncorrupted elves (politically BE and phenotypically HE). That is not the face of the Horde. (green eyes / tanned skin).

I never said that the entire population of blood elves was corrupt. The vast majority was corrupted by fel magic.
The personification of those thalassian elves who represent the Horde are Blood elves (green eyes and tanned skin) and the personification of those thalassian elves that represent the Alliance are HE (pale skin and pale hair tones with blue eyes)

Cool

So you just don't let lore, in-game examples, or the developer's vision get in your way. Good to know. I won't waste any more time here. Thanks for sating my curiosity.

[The Silver Covenant]

Just ask Blizzard to give Void Elf, a way to change to elf form just like Worgen are able to change to human.....

People have been asking for this since the race was announced. It's the least Blizzard could do and they won't, likely because Blizzard employees love crapping on the Alliance and withholding even the Alliance's most basic themes.

[Varodoc]

Just ask Blizzard to give Void Elf, a way to change to elf form just like Worgen are able to change to human.....

High elves are never going to be a race for the alliance....

Or even just pink skin customization options, it doesn't have to be a racial ability.

[Ignaz]

So you just don't let lore, in-game examples, or the developer's vision get in your way. Good to know. I won't waste any more time here. Thanks for sating my curiosity.

You're welcome!

[Obelisk Kai]

Or even just pink skin customization options, it doesn't have to be a racial ability.

Blizzard will likely do neither. Two reasons. One, the blue/purple skin tones are thematically appropriate for a Void Elf and were a deliberate choice to distinguish them from Blood Elves, Blood Elves having the human range of skin tones.

And two, human nature being what it is, giving human range skin tones to Void Elves would mean most Void Elves taking that customisation rather than thematically appropriate blues or purples. Void Elves as a group would lose something distinctive and they have a right to be their own thing, not forever treated as the next best thing to a high elf on the Alliance and made to suffer for that.

Did they say the human range skin tones were possible on Void Elves? Yes they did, just as Ion Hazzikostas said in 2014 that High Elves (without modification) were a possible sub-race. Only when they sat down and worked through the implications did they seemingly create Void Elves as an alternative, just as when they sit down and think through the ramifications of normal skin on Void Elves that they will probably back off.

Instead, I see it being likelier that Blizzard could provide alternative skin tones similar to the doctored images you posted previously, of the partially normal Void Elves who are mottled and disfigured with the void. I call those the monkey paw result. If anything happens to the Void Elves in terms of tones, it would likelier be that.
Although I say again, they should use the opportunity of a Void Elf customization pass to lean into the void fantasy rather than duplicate the Blood Elf one. They could give the Void Elves some pretty nifty monstrous options.

[Strippling]

Or even just pink skin customization options, it doesn't have to be a racial ability.

Giving void elves "pink skin" options would essentially just be making them more like their parent race. This would somewhat break the barrier of distinction between the parent race/allied race counterpart. I highly doubt blizzard would do that, given they've already expressed their desire to avoid blurring faction lines and maintaining faction and racial identity.

[Shiza]

Giving void elves "pink skin" options would essentially just be making them more like their parent race. This would somewhat break the barrier of distinction between the parent race/allied race counterpart. I highly doubt blizzard would do that, given they've already expressed their desire to avoid blurring faction lines and maintaining faction and racial identity.

The problem is, they should be like their parent race. They should be like Alleria, who was the first void elf and teased them to us. I mean, I can make my Mag'har look like Grom or Garrosh Hellscream, why can't I make a Void elf who looks similar to Alleria Windrunner, the first void elf and their leader?

[Obelisk Kai]

The problem is, they should be like their parent race. They should be like Alleria, who was the first void elf and teased them to us. I mean, I can make my Mag'har look like Grom or Garrosh Hellscream, why can't I make a Void elf who looks similar to Alleria Windrunner, the first void elf and their leader?

Because Alleria is a hero character, like Anduin the plate wearing, sword-wielding priest and thus is subject to different considerations.

Also because Alleria ate the heart of a dark naaru in order to become a Void Elf. The other Void Elves were the victims of an abortive transformation process, Different processes have different results.

[Strippling]

The problem is, they should be like their parent race. They should be like Alleria, who was the first void elf and teased them to us. I mean, I can make my Mag'har look like Grom or Garrosh Hellscream, why can't I make a Void elf who looks similar to Alleria Windrunner, the first void elf and their leader?

Undead haven't ever been able to be customized to look like their racial leader (Sylvanas).. why should void elves be given special treatment?

[Obelisk Kai]

Giving void elves "pink skin" options would essentially just be making them more like their parent race. This would somewhat break the barrier of distinction between the parent race/allied race counterpart. I highly doubt blizzard would do that, given they've already expressed their desire to avoid blurring faction lines and maintaining faction and racial identity.

This is a good argument against them getting a normal skin range.

This argument will very likely prevail once they sit down and work out how they are going to expand Void Elf customization. But for the moment, the possibility does exist that they may get options of this sort, as Afrasiabi did say they were possible.

Of course, should they get those options, that will still be a Void Elf, a thalassian elf transformed by the void, rather than a traditional High Elf. That this debate has basically collapsed onto this possibility merely demonstrates that the chances of the High Elf exiles getting their own dedicated race slot truly has become virtually non-existent.

[Shakana]

So why are they an allied race and not a customization for regular orcs?

Mag'har never drank the demon blood, frostwolf clans. They are the "uncorrupted" orcs. Would not be a customization for normal orcs that drank the demon blood.

[Ignaz]

Mag'har never drank the demon blood, frostwolf clans. They are the "uncorrupted" orcs. Would not be a customization for normal orcs that drank the demon blood.

Exactly. Regular orcs are corrupted Orcs.

[Shakana]

I'm not sure why this is even a discussion still

Blizzard will do with Alliance High Elves as they did with private servers, something they were equally adamant about not happening, until it did.

Playable High Elves require even less effort

Show me those high elves on private servers, i never knew that D:

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Exactly. Regular orcs are corrupted Orcs.

Yep. And not putting even into account that Mag'har themselves, are proud to be uncorrupted and that they have 3 skin colors too, enough to make another race (allied race):

Black skin - Blackrock Clan-
Gray - Burning Blade, laughing skull, etc
White - Bleeding hollow, Frostwolf, warsong, shadowmoon, etc

Overlord Geya'rah: Strength and honor. Blood and thunder. Mere words to others... but everything to us. We are the last survivors of a proud tribe. The uncorrupted... the unbroken... the Mag'har!

[Obelisk Kai]

Show me those high elves on private servers, i never knew that D:

I think what he means is that Blizzard will give the Alliance High Elves, just as they introduced classic despite saying they would never do so. Until classic became a thing, only private servers allowed players to live the classic experience, and Blizzard was notoriously resistant to doing a classic version of WoW. The idea is that Blizzard will cave under the persistent pressure.

The problem with his argument is that it is incredibly sloppy thinking. It argues that because Blizzard changed their mind on one thing, they will inevitably change their mind on something else. This ignores that these are two completely different topics. That this topic is incredibly niche, whereas the demand for classic servers was vast.

And that when Blizzard introduced the Allied race system, they had the perfect vehicle for introducing High Elves to the Alliance (in fact Ion Hazzikostas had used High Elves as one of two examples of what could be added in a sub-race system when asked about the possibility of such a system in 2014, the other being the now playable Mag'har Orcs) and they created Void Elves instead rather than add High Elves.

[Shakana]

I think what he means is that Blizzard will give the Alliance High Elves, just as they introduced classic despite saying they would never do so. Until classic became a thing, only private servers allowed players to live the classic experience, and Blizzard was notoriously resistant to doing a classic version of WoW. The idea is that Blizzard will cave under the persistent pressure.

The problem with his argument is that it is incredibly sloppy thinking. It argues that because Blizzard changed their mind on one thing, they will inevitably change their mind on something else. This ignores that these are two completely different topics. That this topic is incredibly niche, whereas the demand for classic servers was vast.

And that when Blizzard introduced the Allied race system, they had the perfect vehicle for introducing High Elves to the Alliance (in fact Ion Hazzikostas had used High Elves as one of two examples of what could be added in a sub-race system when asked about the possibility of such a system in 2014, the other being the now playable Mag'har Orcs) and they created Void Elves instead rather than add High Elves.

Ye, well i always thought void elves creation was a response as to "high elves are not happening" to us.

So i was skeptic after void elves creation and addition to the game.

To be honest, i still am.

[Obelisk Kai]

Ye, well i always thought void elves creation was a response as to "high elves are not happening" to us.

So i was skeptic after void elves creation and addition to the game.

To be honest, i still am.

Void Elves were clearly created as a compromise. They likely sat down, considered adding High Elves to the Alliance, and after thinking it through realised Blood Elves pretty much are High Elves. This meant adding the High Elves to the Alliance was firstly redundant in that the option to play a High Elf is already in game, and secondly damaging to the faction divide as it would essentially making taking a Horde exclusive option and making it available to both sides.

Void Elves are an attempt to give the Alliance their own kind of High Elves, thus appeasing those who coveted the thalassian elf model, whilst maintaining enough of a difference that the division between the factions are maintained. The current demand to make Void Elves more like Blood Elves to simulate a High Elf ideal shows that Blizzard was successful in creating a level of difference.

[Strippling]

This is a good argument against them getting a normal skin range.

This argument will very likely prevail once they sit down and work out how they are going to expand Void Elf customization. But for the moment, the possibility does exist that they may get options of this sort, as Afrasiabi did say they were possible.

Of course, should they get those options, that will still be a Void Elf, a thalassian elf transformed by the void, rather than a traditional High Elf. That this debate has basically collapsed onto this possibility merely demonstrates that the chances of the High Elf exiles getting their own dedicated race slot truly has become virtually non-existent.

Agreed, anything is possible but I'd be surprised if they did give void elves "high elf" customization's. Their entire thematic is about "void and shadow", it would make no sense to "devoid" their thematic simply to offer a customization that is already available via the blood elves. It'd be a disservice to both void elves and blood elves.

Plus, Alleria underwent a different transformation to the playable void elves. Void elves have no reason to have normal skin tone/hair options. And what baffles me more is players who claim they want high elves for lore reasons, yet are happy to butcher the lore and thematic of the void elves just so that they could play out their alliance high elf exile fantasy. If you appreciate the lore then you'd appreciate that A) blood elves are our high elves, they're the legacy of the high elves and the high elven fantasy is fulfilled through them, and B) there is no clear example of who or what an alliance aligned high elf exile is (as was specifically stated by the lead WoW developer).

Also, directly from Ion: And so, the Void Elf angle, as it tied into the story of Argus, the powers of Alleria awakened and was able to train others to harness, was able to give something that felt a bit like a Blood Elf but had a unique flavor of its own to the Alliance.

They intended void elves to have a unique flavor to blood elves. Giving them "high elf" customizations would certainly contradict this.

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I'm not sure why this is even a discussion still

Blizzard will do with Alliance High Elves as they did with private servers, something they were equally adamant about not happening, until it did.

Playable High Elves require even less effort

Classic WoW had a significantly greater following and level of support from the community. The classic petition had over 200,000 signatories, plus multiple successful private servers.

The high elf petition had 600 or so signatories. Your kidding yourself if you think the high elf situation is comparable in the slightest to WoW classic.

[Shakana]

Agreed, anything is possible but I'd be surprised if they did give void elves "high elf" customization's. Their entire thematic is about "void and shadow", it would make no sense to "devoid" their thematic simply to offer a customization that is already available via the blood elves. It'd be a disservice to both void elves and blood elves.

Plus, Alleria underwent a different transformation to the playable void elves. Void elves have no reason to have normal skin tone/hair options. And what baffles me more is players who claim they want high elves for lore reasons, yet are happy to butcher the lore and thematic of the void elves just so that they could play out their alliance high elf exile fantasy. If you appreciate the lore then you'd appreciate that A) blood elves are our high elves, they're the legacy of the high elves and the high elven fantasy is fulfilled through them, and B) there is no clear example of who or what an alliance aligned high elf exile is (as was specifically stated by the lead WoW developer).

Also, directly from Ion: And so, the Void Elf angle, as it tied into the story of Argus, the powers of Alleria awakened and was able to train others to harness, was able to give something that felt a bit like a Blood Elf but had a unique flavor of its own to the Alliance.

They intended void elves to have a unique flavor to blood elves. Giving them "high elf" customizations would certainly contradict this.

That's true, couldn't agree more in that sense. Always felt that to have high elves now, they don't mind messing lore with blood elves or void elves to have it. It's like it doesn't matter destroying the lore of those 2 that are in game, in order to make alliance high elves.

Kind of reminds me of Hitler/Nazism wanting Aryan races (blue eyed and blond), master race, and exterminate all others.