1. #13521
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    If all you mean to say here is "who cares" then frankly people requesting the High Elves can do the same thing. Don't need to dress it up with actual evidence of their presence - something that other races (Ogres) barely even have or (Drogbar) are non-existant.
    Again, nobody cares because the high elf request alone crosses several red lines that Blizzard keeps laying out, that the race is already playable, that the race is playable on the other faction, and that making that race available to the Alliance compromises their red lines on faction diversity. There is no point in citing Ogres or Drogbar or any other race because no other race has the same issue, that they are already playable on the other faction.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    Also saying, "nobody outside the Helf community cares about that" is patently false as there have been people who say they don't give a fuck about High Elves but feel it's alright that Alliance gets them
    Which is what, some other forum goers? You are aware of how vanishingly small a percentage of the player base people who participate in the forums actually are, right? The vast majority of players aren't even aware this debate exists, let alone taken a side on it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    Uh, of course there is more presence being put to Void Elves. There was more presence being put to every Allied Race in BfA because Allied Races are a BfA feature. If it wasn't Void Elves, it would've been whatever else took their Allied Race spot. This isn't a strong argument at all.

    It would be like pointing out the importance of Demon Hunters to the story of the Legion expansion. Thanks Captain Obvious.
    But it WAS Void Elves and not a hypothetical alternative. And as such, Void Elves were and are being developed as the High Elves of the Alliance.




    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    The majority of the playerbase doesn't like Mechagnomes and thinks there trash, they still became an Allied Race. What we can tell here is that a majority of the playerbase liking something is not required for it to become an Allied Race.
    High Elf exiles did not become an allied race despite a multi year campaign in support of their inclusion. Mechagnomes did despite having a vastly smaller presence in regards to feedback. The logical conclusion here then is that the feedback of the pro high elf community was disregarded because Blizzard valued it's red lines more.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    The "factions being distinct" design goal that you're trying to herald here already became defunct when Void Elves came to the Alliance. Thus giving Alliance the exact same Thalassian model - not even a modified one like the Nightborne.
    Except they still cited faction diversity as the reason High Elves were not given to the Alliance. Were Void Elves seen as being a duplicate, the debate would have ended and the pro High Elf side would be crowing it's victory. You cannot on the one hand argue that faction distinctiveness was eliminated by Void Elves and on the other hand argue the Alliance still needs playable High Elves. That is pure doublethink. Void Elves are a variant, not a duplicate of a high elf. As a variant, there is a measure of differentiation between them and the Blood/High Elves which the pro high elf community is well aware of, as they have spent a considerable amount of time arguing why Void Elves are not what they wanted.

    So please, pick an approach. If the Void Elves destroyed faction distinctiveness, congratulations, the Alliance has the high elves they wanted and this topic can end.
    If Void Elves are not identical to high elves, then the faction barrier was preserved and Blizzard kept to their red lines, something you will have to make peace with eventually.





    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    And Blizzard has "publicly ruled out" things like transmog before deciding it probably is a good idea and implementing it, and w/e else they first denied. There's someone on MMO-C here that has their signature filled of things that Blizzard said they'd never do and then later implemented. And besides that, High Elves weren't "publicly ruled out" again you are pushing the narrative that this potential conversation thread with the developers are done and decided and no further changes will come. We have not received that kind of answer, despite what you may think. It is not the same as how Pathfinder stays and the request to have flying immediately is received with a blunt, "no".

    If you want to speak about "common sense" the common sense answer that was given meant don't expect to see High Elves as an Allied Race for BfA or anytime soon. That's actually what was said for a question that was being asked almost every Q&A and ofc they had to provide an answer cuz it kept popping up. Lore even states right before it was a popular question.
    That list that player has of things Blizzard changed their minds on hasn't been updated to include High Elves now has it? In fact, their position on high elves has remained remarkably stable across fifteen years if we go all the way back to that first Caydiem blue post back in September 2005. In fact, not only has Blizzard NOT reversed them on high elves, they've time and again gone out of their way to double down on their 'No', haven't they? Even at Blizzcon they throttled the talk of the summer, that the factions were weakening, quite viciously. Interview after interview stomped the idea that Alliance and Horde were anything other than a pillar of the franchise. And a component of that pillar is racial diversity of the membership, which is the rationale given for why high elves weren't added and void elves were added in their stead.

    I find appealing to 'all the times they seemingly changed their mind on something' ferociously lazy reasoning. It implies all you have to do is wait and they'll change their mind, as if such a shift is inevitable in the fullness of time. It means you never have to actually engage with the case you presented and ask why it hasn't happened? What is stopping it? Just because they changed their mind on a few things doesn't mean they will change their mind on everything. And on this particular topic they've been solid for a decade and a half.

    As for it being a popular question, well, you answered that yourself I believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    What we can tell here is that a majority of the playerbase liking something is not required for it to become an Allied Race
    The very reasonable interpretation being they will try and meet a reasonable request, but an unreasonable request will be resisted no matter how popular the demand seems to be. A request that violates a pillar of the game, the faction wall, is unreasonable.




    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    See, you can't even admit you were way off the mark. You somehow must've combined the answer from the previous question and added it to the VE one.

    A second is not "far longer" as you put it. If you don't want to admit something small that's ok. I'll take this as a win.
    I regard the entire answer as flimsy and unworthy of the level of attention you've given to it. He said skins for Void Elves was possible, so as far as we know, it's possible. But they are not guaranteed by any stretch of the imagination and once upon a time, when Ion mentioned High Elves as a potential subrace in an interivew, they became possible too.

    We all know how that turned out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    But Night Elf fans don't get to play Nightborne on their faction??? Your response here shows complete bias, the developers knew that both sides wanted the Nightborne and they are essentially Night Elven ancestry and still gave that over to Horde. Why should people who are Night Elf fans (like me) have to "respect that" when the same respect wasn't given to our chosen race???
    Because Nightborne were part of a quid pro quo to get a High Elf variant in the Alliance with the Void Elves. Those pro High Elfers who argued the case for High Elves prior to yourself always accepted the implicit bargain, that access to a Horde race for the Alliance was paired with the Horde getting access to an Alliance race. They suggested leper gnomes or dark iron dwarves. In the end, it turned out to be Alliance access to a variant of a Horde race in exchange for Horde access to a variant of an Alliance race.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    This is where your own argument destroys itself. Nightborne ARE Night Elven ancestry, just like High Elves ARE Blood Elven ancestry. Yet it appears you and others are perfectly fine to have not respected those Night Elf players that wanted Nightborne yet at the same time try to admonish others for wanting High Elves? A race that actually still appears within the Alliance.
    Nightborne are a variant of Night Elves, with a unique aesthetic and theme. The Alliance was compensated in the lost of a monopoly on the Night Elf race with access to Void Elves. And high elves are not the equivalent of Nightborne. Void Elves are. Horde players cannot play Void Elves, just as Night Elf fans cannot play Nightborne. You seem to be inventing a grievance whereas the actual thing was handled fairly equitably.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    This is why the above argument makes no sense. If it's something that actually mattered then Blizzard wouldn't have put the Nightborne on the Horde in the first place. Frankly what can be taken away from it is that Blizzard will do whatever Blizzard wants to do at the time they're doing it and will make up any reason for doing so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    TNightborne already kills this argument.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    Again, Nightborne kill this argument. You got Horde Night Elves. Talk about different stance/etc all you want, it's the same shit people suggest for getting High Elves on Alliance. It's just clear Blizzard doesn't have some set way they deal with each Allied Race addition because if they did we would not have so many inconsistencies being pointed out about certain Allied Races over others (like how people say LF Draenei and HM Tauren are a waste-of-a-slot and could've just been customization options).
    Again, if Nightborne are identical to Night Elves or Void Elves are identical to High Elves, then the Alliance has High Elves and you won.
    If Nightborne are different from Night Elves, or Void Elves are different from High Elves, then they are distinct and the faction wall remains firm.

    You cannot argue on the one hand they are identical with each other whilst on other hand complain about them for not being what you wanted. Pick one.

    Personally it is clear to me, and in fact to everyone, that they are in fact distinct and that anyone who argues they are the same is doing so with an agenda.



    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    This is why so many in the media community (Youtubers/Wowhead/RedShirtGuy) etc called bullshit on Blizzard's High Elf Q&A response. They knew Blizzard was just talking out their ass. Just as many of those same media community people are calling them out now for how they're taking Sylvanas's story.

    But it works in your favor and anyone who's stance is to kill the High Elf request, so it's not surprising to see you utilize it as if Blizzard is 100% true and correct with how they handle this subject.
    It is 100% true and correct. Blood Elves are High Elves. High Elves are playable. A High Elf variant has been provided to the Alliance that does not undermine the faction distinctiveness of the Horde. All consistent with the design pillar that the faction divide is integral to the game.

  2. #13522
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    How the hell do you explain the green eyes then?

    THAT, is -already- part of the -current- lore of the Blood elves.

    That CANNOT be a retcon, because it -IS- the way things have been all the time.

    My Blood elf has taken fel corruption, your Blood elf has taken fel corruption, every Blood elf has taken fel corruption, one way or the other.

    High elves, on the other hand, were not in Silvermoon by the time the Blood elves started using fel all around the city.
    I never thought of it as fel corruption, more like an outward sign that they've used fel magic. Like bloodshot/red eyes on someone who just smoked a bowl. They weren't consumed by it, they were addicted to magic and for a time they used fel magic to sate that addiction instead of the Sunwell. Now that the Sunwell is back they no longer use fel magic and therefore aren't affected by fel magic and are instead affected by the Sunwell. Hence the golden eyes.

  3. #13523
    Quote Originally Posted by Broflake View Post
    The HE look the EXACT, SAME, as BE. How are they more distinct?
    There is literally no difference both in terms of intentional design, and in lore.
    VE are certainly more distinct Manariel. Suggesting otherwise is being dishonest.
    Not at all and here's why :
    -Both BE and VE identify as Blood Elves (until a random event changed the Void Elves) not High Elves
    -Both BE and VE dabble with dangerous and volatile energies (the Fel/the Void) and the first use of the VE in something not Faction War related is... them falling victim to the corruptive influence of the Void, just like several minor BE NPC have been made evil because they went mad with power - something which, to my knowledge, never happened to the HE
    -Both BE and VE deem it necessary for the survival and protection of Quel'thalas
    -Both BE and VE are seen acting in very dubious ways but handwave it away because it's for some sort of greater good

    For all intent and purpose, VE are copy-pasted BE. They require far less work from Blizzard to differenciate them from the BE, because they can be used in the exact same way. Want an NPC going mad with power ? Use a BE or a VE, it won't make much difference in the end. And it really saddens me to say that, because I like the VE. But they are far closer to the BE than the HE are, nowadays.

  4. #13524
    Quote Originally Posted by protip View Post
    Do you often tell doctors and the compilers of dictionaries that they are wrong? Because that's what you're doing here.
    No, I just say that the title of that article has nothing to do with its content, and that the title is wrong. they use the physiological differences between twins (error) instead of using the genetic differences (in its genetic material): as a population of `` homozygous twins '' and another of `` heterozygous twins '' (the difference to which they refrain) just to prove the function of a gene
    and a doctor can make an erroneous diagnosis. We are not perfect. There are many articles in the area of health (especially nutrition) that are flatly wrong

    Physiology can be used to describe a much higher level of specificity than you are arguing
    if you talk about members of the same species and if the physiological principles of each species are well established.
    e.g. Dogs can't eat chocolate because they don't produce the enzyme that drains their composition, we humans can synthesize the enzyme. Can you tell me such a physiological difference between humans and elves in the game?

    while I have provided 1) a dictionary definition of the word physiology,
    https://books.google.es/books?hl=es&...iology&f=false
    Here you have a book on human physiology, you can translocate many of those principles described in the first pages as general concepts.
    I recommend Ganong of human physiology, it is easier to understand.

    2) a medical study referring to differences in physiology at a much more precise level than required
    What differences? and which study?

    3) the game's developer's explicit declaration that blood elves and high elves are the same race.
    They say they are physiologically the same, good. Tell me now, what is the physiological difference between HE and Humans? and why can they procreate hybrids?


    So, you're arguing that because they sometimes appear different in game, that they should retcon the lore to make that difference canon? That will be controversial with anyone who cares about the lore, and certainly players like me who made blood elves during the time between November 2006 and the release of Cataclysm, when the Warcraft Encyclopedia was removed from worldofwarcraft.com. This lore was two clicks away from the WoW homepage for the four years that WoW had the highest number of players. You're welcome to your opinion, but you should understand the context of what you're asking for. It is a major departure from important lore that a lot of people have been exposed to.
    you are telling me that the changes in the models have been canonized by lore, I tell you that it is not always like that.
    e.g. HE with NE model and an expansion later, they magically have their own model. Why could the same not happen to differentiate HE from BE with minimal changes such as posture and facial features?



    Some lore is subject to change, sure, but usually it's just expanded on, and they're very careful about changing existing player characters because those are the decisions that affect existing players the most. Imagine the effect of telling blood elf roleplayers that their characters were actually fel corrupted all along, for example. It's not just disruptive, it's a retroactive transformation of their character's identity. Sure, we all have our different perspectives, but blood elves are the most popular existing race in the game, so you're asking for a massive group of players to sacrifice the identity of their characters for an allied race (or whatever) that has almost exactly the same concept that they would be giving up. I can't possibly see that as a good decision. Not for myself, not for the playerbase as a whole, and not for Blizzard.
    In fact, I agree with much of what you say here. That is why I consider that VE were a mistake, since they destroyed the identity of the blood elves in the horde in a certain way.
    That is why my request has always been pro-HE but without sacrificing the identity of the blood elves. with ideas like the ones I already expressed (not a massive change necessarily)the idea of the Nozdormu elves or use the same BE mold but with different postures and other features that shares many similarities with blood elves, but it is sufficiently different not to confuse them.

    but I also think that the integration of HE as a playable race, just fanned more the flames of that conflict between factions since, further emphasizing the key point of the franchise, because thinking or not they are the same race, HE have always served as carriers of the banner of the alliance and BE as carriers of the banner of the horde.

    I also want to point out that, yes, a change in lore can be used to further expand the universe, and this opens up a totally different universe of possibilities (e.g. shadowlands) but they have not always been careful with those changes...ç

    Imagine the effect of telling blood elf roleplayers that their characters were actually fel corrupted all along, for example
    What about green eyes and tanned skin?
    Last edited by Ignaz; 2019-11-21 at 04:50 PM.

  5. #13525
    Bloodsail Admiral Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timester View Post
    Except, it was stated by the devs, several times, the corruption (mainly the eyes) is slowly being reverted due the energies of the Sunwell.

    "Lady Liadrin, leader of the Blood Knights, is shown to have golden eyes in her Hearthstone hero artwork. Some blood elves have lost their fel corruption and gained golden eyes due the cleansing of the Sunwell.[39]

    In classic World of Warcraft, blood elves had normal white eyes with pupils. The Sunwell Trilogy also depicted them with this appearance. The Priest unit in The Frozen Throne had glowing green-eyed models, while before the expansion, in Reign of Chaos, it had glowing blue eyes.
    Ultimately, it is a matter of time before the fel-power induced green glint reverts back to the blood elves' regular high elven eyes. This process, however, may take a fairly long time.[24]"

    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Blood_elf
    Blood elves are not getting golden eyes left and right, that is a misconception.

    The golden eyes appear to those who are light worshipers and use the light through the energies of the Sunwell.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    I never thought of it as fel corruption, more like an outward sign that they've used fel magic. Like bloodshot/red eyes on someone who just smoked a bowl. They weren't consumed by it, they were addicted to magic and for a time they used fel magic to sate that addiction instead of the Sunwell. Now that the Sunwell is back they no longer use fel magic and therefore aren't affected by fel magic and are instead affected by the Sunwell. Hence the golden eyes.
    It is fel corruption nevertheless.

  6. #13526
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    Blood elves are not getting golden eyes left and right, that is a misconception.

    The golden eyes appear to those who are light worshipers and use the light through the energies of the Sunwell.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=732xizkqfZk&t=645

    ALL Blood Elves feed from the Sunwell, reason why everyone player can choose golden eyes if they want. No misconception there, the fel corruption is going away.

  7. #13527
    @Ignaz, you're amazing. I like how you can talk like a doctor. lol Are you a doctor by any chance btw?

    And i can't comment, i barely understand of that subject. All i understand is DNA.

  8. #13528
    Bloodsail Admiral Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timester View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=732xizkqfZk&t=645

    ALL Blood Elves feed from the Sunwell, reason why everyone player can choose golden eyes if they want. No misconception there, the fel corruption is going away.
    ...

    Look, that is NOT the whole story, look at what Danuser has to say: https://twitter.com/Moorgard/status/...462386176?s=20

    Don't you think there is a reason for why we have only seen priest and paladin Blood elf NPCs with those?

    And this is more explanation on the -player's- choice also by Danuser: https://twitter.com/Moorgard/status/...241684480?s=20

    So there you go, that was a misconception and the fel is not simply 'getting cleansed' as you might think.

  9. #13529
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    It is fel corruption nevertheless.
    I think corruption is too strong a word, by itself, though. The only thing that was ever affected was their eyes. They didn't transform, they didn't acquire new powers, they didn't become slaves to the fel magic or anything like that. Their eyes changed color.

    Tainted would be a better word, IMO, as it still says they were affected but that it didn't fully consume them or anything.

    It's semantics, really I guess, but the word corruption insinuates that it affected them more heavily and deeply than it actually did.

  10. #13530
    Quote Originally Posted by Shakana View Post
    @Ignaz, you're amazing. I like how you can talk like a doctor.
    I appreciate your words very much. it's nice to find people to empathize with
    lol Are you a doctor by any chance btw?
    Nah, not yet. but soon
    And i can't comment, i barely understand of that subject. All i understand is DNA.
    I am sure that if you talk about your professional area, I will not understand a little haha

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    I think corruption is too strong a word, by itself, though. The only thing that was ever affected was their eyes. They didn't transform, they didn't acquire new powers, they didn't become slaves to the fel magic or anything like that. Their eyes changed color.

    Tainted would be a better word, IMO, as it still says they were affected but that it didn't fully consume them or anything.

    It's semantics, really I guess, but the word corruption insinuates that it affected them more heavily and deeply than it actually did.
    that is why semantics is so important in this type of discussion.

    Most people often confuse the meanings of words as mutation and corruption with huge changes:
    like "oh my god, I have a third eye" in the case of the mutation; when this only refers to changes in something that was established as a normal pattern

    e.g. if the pattern were pale skin elves with blue eyes, a mutation would be the tanned skin elves with green eyes (and corruption caused that mutation, however small it may seem).

  11. #13531
    Quote Originally Posted by Ignaz View Post
    that is why semantics is so important in this type of discussion.

    Most people often confuse the meanings of words as mutation and corruption with huge changes:
    like "oh my god, I have a third eye" in the case of the mutation; when this only refers to changes in something that was established as a normal pattern

    e.g. if the pattern were pale skin elves with blue eyes, a mutation would be the tanned skin elves with green eyes (and corruption caused that mutation, however small it may seem).
    I don't disagree, however in discussions where you have several kinds of people involved with different levels of understanding, different interpretations, training, etc... it's important to use words and phrases that convey the message you're trying to send rather than the somewhat more technical jargon that is used in that field of expertise.

    Knowing that a word carries certain meanings, depending on the circle of people you're discussing it with, means that you should either preface what you mean when you say it, or describe what you mean rather than trying to use a word that can cause a misunderstanding so that everyone involved in the discussion regardless of their level of understanding or training can understand exactly what it is you're trying to convey.

    The more time spent clarifying what you actually meant, takes away from the discussion you're actually trying to have.

  12. #13532
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Yep, totally agree. I mean just looking at the pictures it tells a story of something weird that happened :P

    I think the Nightborne Heritage looks awesome, except that "beard" hehe, which is strangely enough from the robe. If they just removed that, perfect.
    These beard should have been a customisation option for males. I really believe taht it would help. Then, nightborne males would look less like night elves.
    But the picture you linked here with the female with that purple dress, that is even better. Don't know how many times I mentioned that during the countless Court of Stars runs I had(more than 500, true story), but that dress, those shoulders on that female character. Just lovely.
    I wish they used more flying elements and magic runes for that heritage armor. That's how I would design it.

    Alas, they didn't get the same love as Kul Tirans. Either in model and their armor.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  13. #13533
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    ...

    Look, that is NOT the whole story, look at what Danuser has to say: https://twitter.com/Moorgard/status/...462386176?s=20

    Don't you think there is a reason for why we have only seen priest and paladin Blood elf NPCs with those?

    And this is more explanation on the -player's- choice also by Danuser: https://twitter.com/Moorgard/status/...241684480?s=20

    So there you go, that was a misconception and the fel is not simply 'getting cleansed' as you might think.
    It may not be the whole story, but it doesn't change the FACT that when Anveena cleansed the Sunwell, the Blood Elves began losing their fel taint. In the game, backed by story, players have the ability to choose golden eyes for their Blood Elf regardless of their class.

    Even if the developers are selective, the story overrides their selectivity. All Blood Elves are capable of it, regardless of their connection to the light. Even considering the "whole story," all Blood Elves are capable of demonstrating golden eyes.

  14. #13534
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    I don't disagree, however in discussions where you have several kinds of people involved with different levels of understanding, different interpretations, training, etc... it's important to use words and phrases that convey the message you're trying to send rather than the somewhat more technical jargon that is used in that field of expertise.

    Knowing that a word carries certain meanings, depending on the circle of people you're discussing it with, means that you should either preface what you mean when you say it, or describe what you mean rather than trying to use a word that can cause a misunderstanding so that everyone involved in the discussion regardless of their level of understanding or training can understand exactly what it is you're trying to convey.
    I totally agree with you here. You could also use these technicalities but with the appropriate explanation about them.
    It's hard, but it can work.

    The more time spent clarifying what you actually meant, takes away from the discussion you're actually trying to have.
    Man, I learned that in the worst way

  15. #13535
    Bloodsail Admiral Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Goat View Post
    It may not be the whole story, but it doesn't change the FACT that when Anveena cleansed the Sunwell, the Blood Elves began losing their fel taint. In the game, backed by story, players have the ability to choose golden eyes for their Blood Elf regardless of their class.
    https://twitter.com/Moorgard/status/...241684480?s=20

    Also, one thing does not mean the other. The Sunwell is not 'constantly cleansing' as Lor'themar and Valeera, with their updated models, demonstrate. The golden eyes are something that appears on the individual in an active way, not a passive one.

    Blood elves are also still using fel crystals, as seen in Nazmir during assaults.

    Even if the developers are selective, the story overrides their selectivity.
    The hell does this even mean?

    All Blood Elves are capable of it, regardless of their connection to the light. Even considering the "whole story," all Blood Elves are capable of demonstrating golden eyes.
    No.

    Light worshipers get golden eyes because of their connection with the light of the Sunwell, this encompasses Blood elf priests and paladins, since they follow the light while also using the light energies of the Sunwell, instead of the traditional way of the Church of the Light.

  16. #13536
    The tweet actually proves my and Black Goat's point, the Sunwell is cleansing everyone. It doesn't say it's exclusive to Paladins and Priests, just that their connection to the Light make it happen faster. He even says "but others can if it makes sense."

  17. #13537
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    https://twitter.com/Moorgard/status/...241684480?s=20

    Also, one thing does not mean the other. The Sunwell is not 'constantly cleansing' as Lor'themar and Valeera, with their updated models, demonstrate. The golden eyes are something that appears on the individual in an active way, not a passive one.

    Blood elves are also still using fel crystals, as seen in Nazmir during assaults.


    The hell does this even mean?


    No.

    Light worshipers get golden eyes because of their connection with the light of the Sunwell, this encompasses Blood elf priests and paladins, since they follow the light while also using the light energies of the Sunwell, instead of the traditional way of the Church of the Light.
    Yes. It is constantly cleansing. It is purging the fel taint from Blood Elves who abstain from fel magic.

    The developers said because of the cleansing of the Sunwell, most (not all) Blood Elves are being cleansed of their fel taint therefore the possibility of golden eyed Blood Elves who are NOT connected to the Light is made possible. You simply saying "No." will not change that. It is WOG.

    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=732xizkqfZk&t=645

    This is not up for debate between you and I. No need to further discuss it, and I won't. Your redundancy does not trump what is said to be canon lore. The Sunwell was cleansed, the fel taint is waning in many of the Blood Elves who are no longer sating themselves via fel crystals. End of discussion.

    Not ALL Blood Elves are using fel crystals. If you see someone doing cocaine, that doesn't mean everyone is doing cocaine.

    The links you provided explain my remark about developer selectivity regarding green eyes/golden eyes on Blood Elf NPCs. Read your own links, for crying out loud. They made it clear that they are whimsical when it comes to Blood Elf NPCs retaining the green eyes, which explains Lor'themar and Valeera.
    Last edited by Black Goat; 2019-11-21 at 08:03 PM.

  18. #13538
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manariel View Post
    Not at all and here's why :
    -Both BE and VE identify as Blood Elves (until a random event changed the Void Elves) not High Elves
    -Both BE and VE dabble with dangerous and volatile energies (the Fel/the Void) and the first use of the VE in something not Faction War related is... them falling victim to the corruptive influence of the Void, just like several minor BE NPC have been made evil because they went mad with power - something which, to my knowledge, never happened to the HE
    -Both BE and VE deem it necessary for the survival and protection of Quel'thalas
    -Both BE and VE are seen acting in very dubious ways but handwave it away because it's for some sort of greater good

    For all intent and purpose, VE are copy-pasted BE. They require far less work from Blizzard to differenciate them from the BE, because they can be used in the exact same way. Want an NPC going mad with power ? Use a BE or a VE, it won't make much difference in the end. And it really saddens me to say that, because I like the VE. But they are far closer to the BE than the HE are, nowadays.
    I get where you are going, but i don't agree, the VEs represent what the BEs used to be, the BEs are not power hungry anymore, they are ex addict, they are the guy with questionable 20s, the VEs are still there, and may never leave that area.

  19. #13539
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxilian View Post
    I get where you are going, but i don't agree, the VEs represent what the BEs used to be, the BEs are not power hungry anymore, they are ex addict, they are the guy with questionable 20s, the VEs are still there, and may never leave that area.
    Well, as recently as WoD, the last time they were used as the main Horde force/present in a zone, we had at least one BE going insane with power. I didn't do Suramar with my Horde alt, but I don't remember seeing them do it there, however.

  20. #13540
    Titan Maxilian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manariel View Post
    Well, as recently as WoD, the last time they were used as the main Horde force/present in a zone, we had at least one BE going insane with power. I didn't do Suramar with my Horde alt, but I don't remember seeing them do it there, however.
    With WOD i'm not surprised, but with the introduction of the NB to the Horde -and, in general-, the BE also went to another chapter as the "guys who used to be afflicted", i mean... that's the whole connection between the NB and the BEs.

    What i find interesting is a small difference bettwen the past BEs and the new VEs, is that the BEs did it for the sake of survival (at the start at least) but the VEs did it for the sake of knowledge and control, that alone put them in a really different category, even more that the energy they interact with is more dangerous, making the VEs that dive into that energy fools or brave soldiers that will fight the abyss

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