1. #13541
    I am Murloc! FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Lorewise your specific example of a Blood Elf DK who argues that they never actually became a Blood Elf isn't wrong, it can be true as every Blood Elf DK died before the switch from High Elf to Blood Elf occurred. After all, the switch from High to Blood has literally amounted to changing a single adjective.
    It is very much wrong. The game points out that you were a champion of the Sin'dorei once. Therefore anyone who makes a Blood Elf DK and acts as if they were never a Blood Elf is in fact denying reality and RPing their own explanation in despite the game at face-value telling you how it is.

    And that is how I am saying those who utilize High Elf skins on their Void Elves will be doing. Because most people don't give a fuck about that lore bit over the aesthetic of their character and their own head canon.

    By you trying to argue against the Blood Elf DK just now proves my point. It also makes me think you didn't read the discussion happening in that post how all the DK races we make are characters made from the era of Vanilla WoW to Wrath, way past the Blood Elf/High Elf split.

    I wonder what you will try to spin or play ignorant of next.
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    And they are also the most popular race in the game considering it appears that one in every five players is a Blood Elf. Blood Elves are High Elves and the option is therefore available, just as the option to be a Tauren or an Orc or a Troll or a Dwarf is available. The fundamental issue is that you refuse to accept the faction the high elves of this game are on, it is a question of the company they keep rather than the race itself being invalid. A variant was provided to the Alliance, a different kind of high elves. There are now two high elf options in game, divided by faction, traditional and void. Agitating for more is being greedy.
    The real fundamental issue is you being in a thread that has explained numerously the conventional meaning of the term "High Elf" accepted by the majority of the players and developers themselves (Ion even pointing out Alleria as an example of a High Elf) and conflating the term to equal a Blood Elf.

    It would be like someone trying to convince everyone that Night Elf and Highborne mean the exact same thing. There's a reason for the descriptors in the first place and if you wanna keep trying to act as if you're obtuse to these conventionally accepted meanings then by all means please do so.

    All you're doing is showing yourself to be in denial of the reality of what High Elf means in the context of this discussion that you yourself have been the 2nd most involved in.

    The majority isn't going around calling their Blood Elves High Elves, despite how much you try to push that narrative and utilize a Red Herring approach.

    Also the last bit about "agitating for more is being greedy" you can take that opinion and eat it, because everyone asks for more of the game. Trying to act is if what people are asking for here is somehow greedy over the other asks of the game is straight up trying to marginalize other player's desires just because they don't fit or run counter to your own. It's an absolute dog shit thing to do.

    I may not agree that Blood Elves should get more customization over other races that barely have any, but I'm not going to call a player that desires that "greedy". The developers will be the arbiters of that decision and develop/add as they see fit.

  2. #13542
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    I imagine the vrykul is one such example. At I couldn't see any differences, physiologically speaking, between the vrykul on Northrend, and the vrykul on the Broken Isles. Not even culturally-speaking.
    Imagine and what went down are two different things. The Valarjar faction knew of King Ymiron and what transpired in Northrend. So it's extended story that's filling in voids we likely didn't see too much into when pieces were foreshadowed in Wrath. It's similar to the druids in the Broken Isles. Those are Cenarious' charge.

    Two things that don't even have opposition from the developers' points of view. Something High Elves do have against them. Repeated moments of Ion and other stating there is so few, and actions like the VE introduction. You cannot say that about Vrykul (who had stories of exiling southward in Wrath). So they still got the same pattern, no new not-really new race.

    And I am going to acknowledge that you originally requested some pre-High Elves Elves as an excuse to make High Elves, but apparently say that's not what you were asking for. Just asking for High Elves. Cause no predating race has not changed some way to differentiate from what exists now. Which is what I was pointing out.
    Last edited by Paraka; 2019-11-25 at 06:04 PM.

  3. #13543
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    What is your proof that 'nobody gives a fuck about this'? What is your evidence? If I were to say, and I have said, that nobody (by which I mean Blizzard and the vast majority of players) cares about playable high elves beyond the fans of the concept, I can cite facts in favour of that position (Void Elves being created in their stead, the developers ruling it out, the closing of the Allied race cycle without the addition of high elves despite the complaining on the forums...).

    In contrast I suspect when you say it what you actually mean is 'I don't give a fuck about this', but extending that as an opinion to everyone is an attempt to give your words a weight they don't deserve. This is your personal opinion, not anyone else's and almost certainly not the developers.

    Lore matters. Alleria came by her powers a different way from the other Void Elves. Faction diversity matters, this is why all the other Void Elves look different from Blood Elves. For the record, Anduin is confirmed to be a Priest despite wearing plate and wielding a sword. He gets away with doing things other Priests can't because of his status as a major lore character. Insisting he is a Paladin is wrong, and undermines your counterargument.
    Because no matter gives a fuck about convoluded lore reasons why Alleria is supposed to stay a high elf with her iconic design while just switching into her actually cool void form whenever she wants outside of Horde Players who get off from trolling the Alliance. At this point I'm heavily considering just reporting all the Horde trolls as you can see they just want to get a rise out of High Elf Fans or those who are dissapointed by the current look and design of the void elves, I have yet to see a genuinly constructive reply from anyone in these kinds of discussions. I mean, all you did so far in this discussion was trolling

    I mean, Alleria didn't get her powers that much differently from other Void Elves, she got exposed to alot of void energy and has to fight off the corrupting voices, Void elves got exposed to a lot of void energy and so on. I mean, Kael'thas sunstrider also got his power from his verdant spheres which are unique to him but guess what, he looks rather similar to playable blood elves. Velen was an original Eredar but guess what, he has a unique model and beard and shit, but isn't that different from playable Eredar. Tyrande became the Nightwarrior herself, but she doesn't looks fundamentally different from night elves with black eyes.

    First off, nobody can seriously support Blizzards reasoning of why Void elves look the way they do without outing themselves as trolls, considering that they even went so far as do wrong advertisement during the Blizzcon with the Void Elves, talking about a high elf form which was never implemented. Second, giving them High Elf Skins would make sense from a faction balance statepoint as everything that encourages people to play alliance currently is needed. Third, people want to be like Alleria who is the OG Void Elf. Forth, there would have been a compromise for every side. Just give them high elf models with tattoos like Alleria has and actually use the cool and badass void form for their real void elf form when they enter combat and let them stay in this until the player deactivates it.

    It would make Void Elves and Void Elves in the effective play even more different than they are now. People can roleplay high elves better than currently in their cities, people can enjoy the high elf skin when chilling in the cities but effectively, when people do pve or pvp the void elf form is constantly on because nobody bothers to switch forth and back between every battle. In PvP, there would be the one odd hunter who things he can pass as a blood elf with his blue season 1 legion set and after feign death didn't worked.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    The specific problem with Shiza's reply was that he was trying to reject a comment by saying 'nobody gives a fuck' without providing evidence to back that up, it was merely him stating his personal opinion and trying to give that opinion heft.
    Nobody gives a fuck because Void Elves are already a mess lore wise and every rule about them is just fucking arbitrary. They could have looked like High Elves who transform into Allerias Void Form in battle, they could have looked like Naga because this is what happened to the last elves who got infused with the void, they could have looked whatever was. This is why nobody gives a fuck about the lore reasons why Void Elves are locked into this look. They are arbitrary and driven by Ions despise for the Alliance, which was clearly shown over all of BFA. Making Void Elves like most people wanted them, Allerias Void Form as the standart form which automatically pops out in combat and the High Elves as a gimmick would have just made everyone happy, because the roleplayers and die hard fans get High Elves but it won't affect anybody outside of cities and rp events, because people stay in their more distinct void form when they do pvp, outside of the few die hards who bother to turn it off in between every pull. And it isn't only the skins. Void Elves just lack any form of visual identity. The Heritage Armor is random and garbage, it should have been something inspired by either Alleria and/or the Locus Walker who are the sole known characters from their lore. Their tabard is fucking ugly and just...nothing. Like, at one point they showed off this reversed phoenix in blue and gold, why not this? Void Elves are the only race where I hate wearing their native nations tabards because it just looks like some random edgelord tabard you pick up from the TCG

    Void Elves have potential and in terms of a thing, I prefer them over High Elves. I just would prefer the High Elf skin with the option to turn on the void form in combat and whenever I want instead of this cool looking skin which makes them visually distinct being just a fucking proc. I mean, at this point Void Elves are fucking lame. They are neither high elves nor this super dark void infused elves whose skin is just pitch black through the void. They are nothing.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    The specific problem with Shiza's reply was that he was trying to reject a comment by saying 'nobody gives a fuck' without providing evidence to back that up, it was merely him stating his personal opinion and trying to give that opinion heft.
    Nobody gives a fuck because Void Elves are already a mess lore wise and every rule about them is just fucking arbitrary. They could have looked like High Elves who transform into Allerias Void Form in battle, they could have looked like Naga because this is what happened to the last elves who got infused with the void, they could have looked whatever was. This is why nobody gives a fuck about the lore reasons why Void Elves are locked into this look. They are arbitrary and driven by Ions despise for the Alliance, which was clearly shown over all of BFA. Making Void Elves like most people wanted them, Allerias Void Form as the standart form which automatically pops out in combat and the High Elves as a gimmick would have just made everyone happy, because the roleplayers and die hard fans get High Elves but it won't affect anybody outside of cities and rp events, because people stay in their more distinct void form when they do pvp, outside of the few die hards who bother to turn it off in between every pull. And it isn't only the skins. Void Elves just lack any form of visual identity. The Heritage Armor is random and garbage, it should have been something inspired by either Alleria and/or the Locus Walker who are the sole known characters from their lore. Their tabard is fucking ugly and just...nothing. Like, at one point they showed off this reversed phoenix in blue and gold, why not this? Void Elves are the only race where I hate wearing their native nations tabards because it just looks like some random edgelord tabard you pick up from the TCG

    Void Elves have potential and in terms of a thing, I prefer them over High Elves. I just would prefer the High Elf skin with the option to turn on the void form in combat and whenever I want instead of this cool looking skin which makes them visually distinct being just a fucking proc. I mean, at this point Void Elves are fucking lame. They are neither high elves nor this super dark void infused elves whose skin is just pitch black through the void. They are nothing.

  4. #13544
    Quote Originally Posted by Paraka View Post
    Imagine and what went down are two different things. The Valarjar faction knew of King Ymiron and what transpired in Northrend. So it's extended story that's filling in voids we likely didn't see too much into when pieces were foreshadowed in Wrath. It's similar to the druids in the Broken Isles. Those are Cenarious' charge.

    Two things that don't even have opposition from the developers' points of view. Something High Elves do have against them. Repeated moments of Ion and other stating there is so few, and actions like the VE introduction. You cannot say that about Vrykul (who had stories of exiling southward in Wrath). So they still got the same pattern, no new not-really new race.

    And I am going to acknowledge that you originally requested some pre-High Elves Elves as an excuse to make High Elves, but apparently say that's not what you were asking for. Just asking for High Elves. Cause no predating race has not changed some way to differentiate from what exists now. Which is what I was pointing out.
    What I want, in a vacuum, is to have a playable high elf, with Vereesa as the "racial" leader.

    That said, I do not mind if they were given differentiation: white elf, black elf, purple elf... or any color in the spectrum. Taller, shorter, wider, two heads, four arms, no arms, tail, etc... I don't care, as long as they were high elves, carried the name high elf, and had the high elf lore.

    Which is why I would be completely fine with void elves if Umbric and his research team were high elves from Dalaran trying to help the Alliance instead of blood elves banished from Silvermoon for trying to help the Horde. If the void elves were made purely from high elves and not blood elves as well.

  5. #13545
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    What I want, in a vacuum, is to have a playable high elf, with Vereesa as the "racial" leader.

    That said, I do not mind if they were given differentiation: white elf, black elf, purple elf... or any color in the spectrum. Taller, shorter, wider, two heads, four arms, no arms, tail, etc... I don't care, as long as they were high elves, carried the name high elf, and had the high elf lore.

    Which is why I would be completely fine with void elves if Umbric and his research team were high elves from Dalaran trying to help the Alliance instead of blood elves banished from Silvermoon for trying to help the Horde. If the void elves were made purely from high elves and not blood elves as well.
    That's fair, but a race already has the High Elf namesake, and that's the High Elves we know today. And for you, this will sadly mean the new Elves, predating or otherwise, will not be High Elf by name. Simply because the patterns and actions we have been given. Because every race that has had something that predated them, they're different enough to not just be Orcs, or Tauren, or Highborne, or Trolls. Which means the High Elves we all know are the High Elves.

    And though you want Alleria to lead, Blizzard's actions, and statements on the matter (regardless how vague) is that they're not keen on giving you High Elves, as High Elves. They've made great lengths to provide evidence that they don't see a near future that this will be a thing. It's why Blood Elves were used to introduce the Void Elves, why Alleria is chosen to lead them, why the starting zone chose to mention they're recruiting High Elves to the same ranks. And with all that, and add the fact Blizzard is looking to add races beyond the archetype is why they created various Troll tribes and Wildhammer options in Shadowlands in spite of their cultural differences there. The latter is why I am noticing a pattern and suspect HE variants are more likely to be the address to your requests for a High Elf. Their answer to your demand has been VE even if you didn't like it and I am suspect they'll build on that to convince you otherwise.

    As a traditional Hordie, I can relate to that, as they've given similar examples why Ogres have not joined the playable ranks, in similar excuses like how minuscule their ranks are. Only difference is they're so little they cannot even consider Void Ogres.

  6. #13546
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Those who care little for faction identity obviously have little time or consideration for the developer viewpoint that the faction divide is an integral pillar of the game.
    The developers care so little for faction identity that the Blood Elves were given to the Horde in the first place. "Muh faction identity" is a weak argument when it's regularly degraded by the developers, and amounts to an excuse exclusively used to shut down High Elf requests.

  7. #13547
    Field Marshal bdlovelace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiza View Post
    I mean, Alleria didn't get her powers that much differently from other Void Elves, she got exposed to alot of void energy and has to fight off the corrupting voices, Void elves got exposed to a lot of void energy and so on
    her void transformation was actually very different from void elves. how many times do you have to be told? void elves are the result of interrupting the process of turning into an ethereal. alleria absorbed the essence of a naaru in a void state. a naaru falling into void state is EXTREMELY rare, with literally only a few known cases. unless void naaru start becoming a common thing you have little hope of the void elves replicating her transformation. not that it would ever happen anyway. its not an accident they lack those skin tones its intentional after all. its what makes them distinct from blood elves

    and as kai said 2021 is probably the earliest they will get around to AR customization. if they do. they said the core races getting new customization cost us a new class. so i dont think its a priority for them. i would expect more void themed options, maybe even ethereal like options, but i dont EVER see them getting a blood elf skintone
    Last edited by bdlovelace; 2019-11-26 at 02:24 AM.

  8. #13548
    Quote Originally Posted by bdlovelace View Post
    her void transformation was actually very different from void elves. how many times do you have to be told? void elves are the result of interrupting the process of turning into an ethereal. alleria absorbed the essence of a naaru in a void state. a naaru falling into void state is EXTREMELY rare, with literally only a few known cases. unless void naaru start becoming a common thing you have little hope of the void elves replicating her transformation. not that it would ever happen anyway. its not an accident they lack those skin tones its intentional after all. its what makes them distinct from blood elves

    and as kai said 2021 is probably the earliest they will get around to AR customization. if they do. they said the core races getting new customization cost us a new class. so i dont think its a priority for them. i would expect more void themed options, maybe even ethereal like options, but i dont EVER see them getting a blood elf skintone
    Another troll.

    I mean, come on. Its bullshit and the reason why void elves look this way has nothing to do with canon but with Ion being an unprofessional biased Horde fan who makes his team up with weirdos like Danuser, who has written Nathanos Blightcaller to be his self-user and Golden, who displayed an understanding of feminism and toxic-masculinity that I would not be surprised if non-toxic male Anduin would ask a rape-victim what she wore and if she didn't provoke it in her next novel.

    There is no reason why Void elves should have looked or worked different from Alleria, outside of the creators bias and laziness (considering that the Void Elves even beat the Nightborn in terms of lazy development and design). There is no background lore to them, there is no precedence considering that void exposure basically always does random things, from turning you small and frail to transforming magical sentient stone creatures into organic living humanoid beings, turning androids into organic living humanoid beings, turning people into faceless ones, turning Orcs into Gollum, turning Broken into Venom, turning the Etherials into Etherials and whatever not.

    I mean, objectively speaking everybody who denies that the alliance would deserve at least something in terms of High Elves or aspects of the thalassian culture being moved into the Alliance is either a hypocrite or just a troll who wants to harass alliance players because they feel emboldened by the devs to do so. The Horde just got the entirety of the imperial and magical heritage of the Night elves handed to them while being allowed to destroy their current civilization nearly in its entirety. The Alliance got shit, we got random smurf elves with no appeal, a plain ugly and thematically unfitting heritage which only satisfies slutmog fans, the ugliest tabard in the game, no lore and no costumization.

  9. #13549
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    It is very much wrong. The game points out that you were a champion of the Sin'dorei once. Therefore anyone who makes a Blood Elf DK and acts as if they were never a Blood Elf is in fact denying reality and RPing their own explanation in despite the game at face-value telling you how it is.

    Because a Sin'Dorei is a High Elf. The sum total of changes as a result of the change from High Elf to Blood Elf is an adjective. The Blood Elves now are the same people as the High Elves then, and a High Elf who died in the service of Quel'thalas is a champion of their people, even if the people have renamed themselves by altering that single adjective.

    Any Death Knight who wants to roleplay as a High Elf because they died as a High Elf is showing unusual attachment to the adjective, but we will indulge what is clearly a death related neurosis and respect their choice in memory of their sacrifice, even if we are going to treat them as Blood Elves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    And that is how I am saying those who utilize High Elf skins on their Void Elves will be doing. Because most people don't give a fuck about that lore bit over the aesthetic of their character and their own head canon.

    By you trying to argue against the Blood Elf DK just now proves my point. It also makes me think you didn't read the discussion happening in that post how all the DK races we make are characters made from the era of Vanilla WoW to Wrath, way past the Blood Elf/High Elf split.

    I wonder what you will try to spin or play ignorant of next.
    Doesn't matter. The fundamental point is that the Death Knight's choice can be explained in a way which is consistent with the game universe and their own particular origin. They are still undead thalassian elves at the end of the day.

    In contrast, a Void Elf can never escape their origin as being transformed thalassian elves, with a connection to the void. Void Elves with normal skin tones, SHOULD they happen (and there is an enormous question mark over that hypothetical) would not be a High Elf, they will be a Void Elf. Any Void Elf player who attempts to roleplay as a High Elf should be treated as having gone somewhat insane, which is a lore consistent outcome for a Void Elf, because any Void Elf who argues they aren't a Void Elf will have clearly lost it. The game itself has provided the story tool to reject the claim of any player who attempts to pretend they are a High Elf while playing a Void Elf. But if people want to embrace the insanity then that is up to them.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    The real fundamental issue is you being in a thread that has explained numerously the conventional meaning of the term "High Elf" accepted by the majority of the players and developers themselves (Ion even pointing out Alleria as an example of a High Elf) and conflating the term to equal a Blood Elf.
    Ion also declared that Void Elves are another kind of High Elf. Alleria named herself a Void Elf. Conclusion, Ion defining Alleria as a High Elf was consistent with her being that other kind of High Elf, a Void Elves. Void Elves are a type of High Elf. What they are not is a traditional style High Elf, that is a Blood Elf. After all, that same Ion Hazzikostas you quote here also said Blood Elves are pretty much High Elves and that the traditional high elf aesthetic of a blue-eyed, pale-skinned, fair haired, majestic elf...that is a Blood Elf.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    It would be like someone trying to convince everyone that Night Elf and Highborne mean the exact same thing. There's a reason for the descriptors in the first place and if you wanna keep trying to act as if you're obtuse to these conventionally accepted meanings then by all means please do so.
    They are the same thing. The Highborne Mages right now are Night Elves , they aren't labelled as Highborne in the character creator. It is a social conceit regarding their backstory due to the stigma Night Elven society has over arcane magic users, but Highborne ARE Night Elves.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    All you're doing is showing yourself to be in denial of the reality of what High Elf means in the context of this discussion that you yourself have been the 2nd most involved in.
    And you have been the first although I fail to see the relevance of continually citing our respective positions in the top contributors to this thread. And it is a bit rich to be accused of denying reality by the individual whom, lest we forget, cooked up the theory that the reason High Elves weren't announced at Blizzcon 2017 was that Blizzard didn't want to overshadow Void Elves on the day they were unveiled. You have been consistently wrong these past two years on pretty much every topic because you are in denial on where this topic is heading. Rather than face the facts, you have spun outlandish theories to justify to yourself that there is still some hope. There isn't any. The proof of that is that we are currently arguing over Void Elf customization. A Void Elf is not a traditional High Elf, it is a variant, and you cannot pretend to be a High Elf exile whilst playing a Void Elf. In other words, we are no longer arguing over high elven exiles as a distinct option for the Alliance, we are arguing over whether an eggshell coloured Void Elf is enough to play pretend with. That is an argument over Void Elves, not the High Elves for the Alliance you pined for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    The majority isn't going around calling their Blood Elves High Elves, despite how much you try to push that narrative and utilize a Red Herring approach.
    Because it's unnecessary. Blood Elves ARE High Elves, but the change in adjective means that High Elves are Blood Elves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    Also the last bit about "agitating for more is being greedy" you can take that opinion and eat it, because everyone asks for more of the game. Trying to act is if what people are asking for here is somehow greedy over the other asks of the game is straight up trying to marginalize other player's desires just because they don't fit or run counter to your own. It's an absolute dog shit thing to do.
    It is greedy. It is an attempt to appropriate the aesthetic and theme of a Horde race on an Alliance race. It's unfair to the Horde. It's unfair to the Blood Elves. It's unfair to the Void Elves who have the right to be their own thing rather than perpetually used as a substitute.
    If that means marginalising the desires of some players who have never reconciled themselves to the faction divide and the fact that they race they covet is on the other side of that divide, then yeah, consider those desires marginalised. If you want to play a traditional style High Elf, the Horde is waiting for you. If you cannot stomach the Horde, the high elf variant of Void Elves is available to you. Asking for something that looks exactly like a Horde race because the aesthetic of the variant doesn't suit you is unfair to both races.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    I may not agree that Blood Elves should get more customization over other races that barely have any, but I'm not going to call a player that desires that "greedy". The developers will be the arbiters of that decision and develop/add as they see fit.
    One of the interviews said Trolls and Dwarves in particular were getting a lot of customizations. That may have been a misinterpretation because Trolls and Dwarves were the ones previewed, or it may genuinely mean that Trolls and Dwarves are getting more customizations because they have more room storywise for those customizations.

    For Blood Elves I expect more human range skin tones i.e. the dark skin options. Those are being given to Dwarves as well based on the preview images. I expect all human range skin tone races to get these, so Gnomes will also get them and some web scuttlebutt has it that Blood Elves were confirmed as getting those skin tones as well. Dark skin tones were proposed as an option to distinguish Blood Elves from Alliance High Elves, a proposal that never made sense but did gain a little bit of traction. When Blood Elves get them, that dies as a proposed method of differentiation.

    I expect Tattoos. Warcraft 2 style tattoos similar to the ones sported by Alleria and maybe runic tattoos similar to those worn by the Blood Elf on the Burning Crusade cover art.

    And of course, eye colour, where I think Blood Elves will be given a choice of shades of blue, green and golden. And the chances of getting blue eyes is pretty good. They know about the request from Blood Elf players, they also know that giving Blood Elves blue eyes will aggravate High Elf players on the forums for a little while, but I doubt Blizzard is going to prioritize a group whose ideal option is almost certainly never going to be added over players of the game's most popular race. What can the pro High Elf community do in response? A forum shitshow? They have those at least once a week anyway, right now the controversy is over the Brutosaur, next week it could be something else. The feelings of the pro High Elf community will count for nothing if they decide to give Blood Elves blue eyes.

    But in total, eye colours, tattoos, skin tones, new hairstyles, maybe some scar options...I don't see Blood Elves getting any special attention when it comes to customization options. They'll get plenty of new options, but they won't be given a unique focus.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by The Silver Covenant View Post
    The developers care so little for faction identity that the Blood Elves were given to the Horde in the first place. "Muh faction identity" is a weak argument when it's regularly degraded by the developers, and amounts to an excuse exclusively used to shut down High Elf requests.
    Your esoteric viewpoint that the High Elves are the exclusive property of the Alliance is twenty years out of date. Warcraft 3 reforged is out shortly, if you wish you can play through the rise of the Blood Elves campaign to see for yourself the final betrayal of Quel'thalas by the Alliance and the departure of the Blood Elves from the Alliance.

    The Alliance has no claim to the High Elves as a part of their faction identity as a result of that storyline as the remaining High Elven exiles are too few in number to constitute a part of the Alliance. Most high elven exiles dwell in the neutral city of Dalaran regardless.

    Faction identity and the barrier between the factions has been identified as a pillar of the game. As a biased fan with an agenda, that agenda being playable High Elves within the Alliance, you are pre-disposed to reject anything which interferes with that goal (which almost everything now does). Therefore your opinion that faction identity is a weak argument is in itself a terribly weak argument, as you have offered no evidence that it is a weak argument and everyone understands your innate biases that cause you to make that statement i.e. your desire for High Elves within the Alliance, which is precluded by the developers viewing faction identity as important.

  10. #13550
    Brewmaster elbleuet's Avatar
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    Blood elves don't consider themselves as High elves.

    High elves are a core Alliance race, and will remain so as long as Blizzard decide otherwise.

    That's why Blood elves will never get tattoos or blue eyes. Fel & light eyes are enough.
    "If you want to play alongside High and Void elves, the Alliance is waiting for you"

  11. #13551
    Quote Originally Posted by Ignaz View Post

    So why are they an allied race and not a customization for regular orcs?
    You're attempting to conflate game design and lore as the same thing, when this is not the case.
    Kul Tirans are human, just like Stormwindians are Human as well.
    HM tauren are still Tauren, they just look different.
    Anomalous differences do not constitute a biological difference among individuals of the same species.
    Thrall was a greenskin orc who came from brown skinned orc parents.
    Skin color differences obviously mean nothing.

    There is no such thing as a corrupted blood elf or uncorrupted blood elf. That is something that was never recognized by Blizzard, and they went on record stating this is just a manifestation of the magic they've been exposed and nothing more.
    We know what corrupted blood elves look like, and they are withered, or felblood elves.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ignaz View Post
    The personification of those thalassian elves who represent the Horde are Blood elves (green eyes and tanned skin)
    Skins 3 and 11 on the blood elf females use the exact same RBG values as those used by pale high elves.
    Skin color has never been used to differentiate the two.
    Let alone that the majority of high elves are not alliance aligned. That is only the silver covenant, and everyone else has been neutral or friendly to Horde with exceptions due to storyline.

    Considering we have those pale blue eyed blood elves, obviously this suggestion of design does not apply.

  12. #13552
    Brewmaster elbleuet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broflake View Post
    Let alone that the majority of high elves are not alliance aligned. That is only the silver covenant, and everyone else has been neutral or friendly to Horde with exceptions due to storyline.

    Considering we have those pale blue eyed blood elves, obviously this suggestion of design does not apply.
    The vast majority of the High elves are Alliance-aligned. Stop pretending they aren't.

    You can be both neutral AND Alliance aligned. See Maiev, Khadgar, Malfurion prior to BFA but also Anduin in MoP.

    High elves have been hunted down by the forsakens and the Horde since Vanilla.

    The whole world is neutral to the Horde only because Blizzard is lazy but also for gameplay purposes.

    And the Stormwind high elves, 7th Legion elves, the Allerian elves, and numerous Dalaran, Alliance aligned elves would like to have a word with you.
    "If you want to play alongside High and Void elves, the Alliance is waiting for you"

  13. #13553
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elbleuet View Post
    The vast majority of the High elves are Alliance-aligned. Stop pretending they aren't.

    You can be both neutral AND Alliance aligned. See Maiev, Khadgar, Malfurion prior to BFA but also Anduin in MoP.

    High elves have been hunted down by the forsakens and the Horde since Vanilla.

    The whole world is neutral to the Horde only because Blizzard is lazy but also for gameplay purposes.

    And the Stormwind high elves, 7th Legion elves, the Allerian elves, and numerous Dalaran, Alliance aligned elves would like to have a word with you.
    If Alliance/Horde is the medium in which you're determining "neutrality," I would disagree with your notion that "you can be both neutral AND Alliance-aligned" on the face of it. Neutrality specifically is not being a part of either side in a dualistic model, either by dint of being outside the spectrum or balanced precariously in its center. You can't lean toward the Alliance or the Horde and still be neutral - you might not be as extreme or partisan, but you aren't neutral. Maiev is definitely Alliance-aligned, Khadgar was but has decided to be neutral (seeing that the Horde/Alliance conflict is secondary to larger concerns), Malfurion was neutral but has become Alliance-aligned due to his home being attacked by the Horde, and Anduin is still staunchly Alliance-aligned as his willingness to work with Saurfang was about ending a war deleterious to both factions due to external circumstances (e.g. Sylvanas).
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  14. #13554
    Quote Originally Posted by elbleuet View Post
    Blood elves don't consider themselves as High elves.

    High elves are a core Alliance race, and will remain so as long as Blizzard decide otherwise.

    That's why Blood elves will never get tattoos or blue eyes. Fel & light eyes are enough.
    No, it's the majority of High Elves which do not consider using the old moniker anymore and call themselves Blood Elves.
    Your "High Elves" are just an anomaly living in denial that their people have chosen a different way.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by elbleuet View Post
    The vast majority of the High elves are Alliance-aligned. Stop pretending they aren't.

    You can be both neutral AND Alliance aligned. See Maiev, Khadgar, Malfurion prior to BFA but also Anduin in MoP.

    High elves have been hunted down by the forsakens and the Horde since Vanilla.

    The whole world is neutral to the Horde only because Blizzard is lazy but also for gameplay purposes.

    And the Stormwind high elves, 7th Legion elves, the Allerian elves, and numerous Dalaran, Alliance aligned elves would like to have a word with you.
    The majority of High Elves are the Blood Elves, who just call themselves differently to honor the dead.
    Stop ignoring this fact already.

  15. #13555
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    Quote Originally Posted by elbleuet View Post
    Blood elves don't consider themselves as High elves.

    High elves are a core Alliance race, and will remain so as long as Blizzard decide otherwise.

    That's why Blood elves will never get tattoos or blue eyes. Fel & light eyes are enough.
    Not really going to debate the blue eye stuff, but why not tattoos? the tattoos that Alleria use are not HE only things, those are general rangers tattoos, so it would make sense for rangers of Quelthalas to use those type of tattoos, regardless if they are HE, BE or VEs

  16. #13556
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elbleuet View Post
    High elves are a core Alliance race, and will remain so as long as Blizzard decide otherwise.
    How could Blizzard display this event?

    Perhaps having their homeland trashed by a former Alliance leader in a major RTS?

    Perhaps in the expansion to this RTS, if that were not enough, the survivors could be betrayed by a racist Alliance general and effectively forced out.

    And then, to cap it all off, they could very publicly be added to the Horde in an expansion pack to a highly successful Warcraft based MMO. This expansion pack would sell millions of copies and the very public emphasis on the High Elves joining the Horde would ensure that nobody would be in any doubt that the High Elves were no longer a core Alliance race.

    And then in the future they could give developer interviewers stating the Horde is waiting for you if you wish to play a High Elf and how important faction diversity and identity is as a pillar of the game.

    So Blizzard has already decided otherwise. And they went to great lengths to ensure this decision was well known.

    Of course, if you wish to pedantically respond with the discredited notion that High Elven exiles are somehow a distinct race from the Blood Elves...then you are still wrong. Those High Elves are not a core Alliance race.

    Load up the game, go the character creator and the first thirteen races listed are the core races of each faction.

    The core races of the Alliance are the Humans, the Dwarves, the Night Elves, the Gnomes, the Draenei, the Worgen and the Tushui Pandaren. These races constitute the thematic core of the Alliance. The High Elven exiles are not part of that core. Or even in the Allied races section...

    Quote Originally Posted by elbleuet View Post
    That's why Blood elves will never get tattoos or blue eyes. Fel & light eyes are enough.
    This is what is known as a hostage to fortune. I can't confirm the addition of blue eyes to Blood Elves, however I feel it is likely. The possibility exists that I am incorrect.

    But to state 'never' is a brave move. If I am proven right, I would be able to come back to this and to quote it back at you as an example of you being wrong and having a flawed understanding of the game and it's lore.
    Last edited by Obelisk Kai; 2019-11-26 at 04:37 PM.

  17. #13557
    Quote Originally Posted by scubi666stacy View Post
    No, it's the majority of High Elves which do not consider using the old moniker anymore and call themselves Blood Elves.
    Your "High Elves" are just an anomaly living in denial that their people have chosen a different way.

    - - - Updated - - -



    The majority of High Elves are the Blood Elves, who just call themselves differently to honor the dead.
    Stop ignoring this fact already.
    I don't know what twist you're trying to get at...

    High elves renamed themselves blood elves after the Third war to honor their fallen people. Then they started sucking demon magic and got green eyes. The remaining blue eyed pricks chose to keep being High elves, because they didn't want to associate with rallying the Horde and sucking demon magic.

    High elves have blue eyes (and maybe golden eyes), blood elves have green and now golden eyes. They don't deserve to be called an anomaly, though.


    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    every Blood Elf DK died before the switch from High Elf to Blood Elf occurred. After all, the switch from High to Blood has literally amounted to changing a single adjective.
    Switch from high elf to blood elf > Warcraft 3
    Playable DK blood elves > Woltk

    But you might just be talking about hypothetical War3 elves DK, I guess.

  18. #13558
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DatToffer View Post
    Switch from high elf to blood elf > Warcraft 3
    Playable DK blood elves > Woltk

    But you might just be talking about hypothetical War3 elves DK, I guess.
    A fair enough catch, I think I garbled my response. What I meant was that the Blood Elf Death Knight population can be sourced from any Elf who died from the razing of Quel'thalas to the events at Light's Hope Chapel. Many of them (given that 90% of the population died in the razing) would have died as High Elves, before the High Elves were renamed as Blood Elves. I would even say most Blood Elf Death Knights could be sourced from that event, as that is when most High Elves died against the Scourge.

    Koltira for example is regarded as a Blood Elf, despite dying as a High Elf. This is of course because there is no practical difference between the two groups. After all, Blood Elves are High Elves even though they changed the name. The term 'Blood Elf' was adopted in remembrance of what they had lost and does not have a political context. In contrast, those who claim the name 'High Elf' are making a political point, alignment to the Alliance.

    However, some Blood Elves could have died to the Scourge and been raised as Death Knights at any point prior to the battle of light's hope.
    Last edited by Obelisk Kai; 2019-11-26 at 04:43 PM.

  19. #13559
    True dat, it's mostly a matter of choice for the players. I didn't think there'd be much DK other than humans during the Third War. They were regarded as the second gen of DK, while the Acherus ones were deemed third gen, and included many races.

  20. #13560
    Titan Maxilian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    A fair enough catch, I think I garbled my response. What I meant was that the Blood Elf Death Knight population can be sourced from any Elf who died from the razing of Quel'thalas to the events at Light's Hope Chapel. Many of them (given that 90% of the population died in the razing) would have died as High Elves, before the High Elves were renamed as Blood Elves. I would even say most Blood Elf Death Knights could be sourced from that event, as that is when most High Elves died against the Scourge.

    Koltira for example is regarded as a Blood Elf, despite dying as a High Elf. This is of course because there is no practical difference between the two groups. After all, Blood Elves are High Elves even though they changed the name. The term 'Blood Elf' was adopted in remembrance of what they had lost and does not have a political context. In contrast, those who claim the name 'High Elf' are making a political point, alignment to the Alliance.

    However, some Blood Elves could have died to the Scourge and been raised as Death Knights at any point prior to the battle of light's hope.
    To be fair, i always assumed that most BE Dks come from Illidans forces, in the end, we do know that after Illidan was defeated in ICC, most of its BE forces remained trapped in Northrend and got a slow and painful death, and most of them where brought back as undead by the Lich King, though it is pointed out that many of those were raised as San'layn, but we do see many San'layn in the Crimson Halls that are basically DKs, so... it can be debated.

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