1. #13621
    Quote Originally Posted by scubi666stacy View Post
    Stop that accusation crap. It's about story integrity and racial integrity. When 90-99% of a race belong to a group, then the rest should be irrelevant.
    High Elves would automatically be claiming higher ground because "we have the original name". This will happen to 100% - and it should not.

    Blood Elves are the WoW interpretation of High Elves according to story and lore. As long as Blizzard does not start to write lore about some other hidden kingdom of High Elves which has been magically consealed the whole time, Blood Elves are the High Elves of WoW. This is how the story goes. Throw your tantrums about it, it does not matter.

    BTW, the Alliance has more than enough iconic races. And Night Elves are much more interesting than your generic High Elves. I don't want High Elves in the Alliance because of Night Elves. They are one of my favorite races there and should not be compromised even more. Void Elves are distnct enough, but High Elves would directly infringe on Night Elf specialities (like people speak about rangers). Night Elves recently got the Highborne back, so they also have their arcanists now. There is no reason to get High Elves on top to 2 already existing, distinctive Elven groups in the Alliance.

    They should rather give Night Elves their dignity back.
    Please. Night Elves have been so utterly trashed that they can't be saved, not by this Blizzard. They aren't ferocious anymore, the druidic neutral shit has eaten at them like a cancer. The Zandalari with their Loas are even preventing them to interact with the Wild Gods because now, it'll just be a cheap copy of those trolls, just like the Highborns are a cheap copy of the BE.

    Meanwhile, High Elves exist in great numbers in the game, have started developing a distinct culture from the Blood Elves, are not tainted by the neutral bullshit of the druids and are depicted as fiercely loyal to the Alliance, making them far more integral to it than those poor NE who are just jokes now.

    I also find the racial/faction integrity utterly ludicrous as an """"argument"''" condidering the fact that Void Elves ARE Blood Elves, with a poorly recolored skin and the exact same mindset and behavior than the other BE.

  2. #13622
    Quote Originally Posted by scubi666stacy View Post
    Blood Elves are the WoW interpretation of High Elves according to story and lore.
    Blood Elves are an offshoot of Warcraft's interpretation of High Elves. We know this because High Elves are still found everywhere in the game world.

    Quote Originally Posted by scubi666stacy View Post
    Void Elves are distnct enough, but High Elves would directly infringe on Night Elf
    But Void Elves are closer to Night Elves than High Elves would be Void Elves are less distinct than High Elves would be.

  3. #13623
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiza View Post
    Because nobody gives a fuck about this. Alleria was the first void elf, it is bullshit that she looks completely different from her people. Like, fuck even if they have normal void elves all have blue skin, there is not reason why we couldn't get at least tattoos, a hairstyle and a heritage armor resembling Allerias or at least the Locuswalkers style.

    And yeah, I can't get the super rez look of Anduin, but I can make my character look like he's from the same race as Anduin. And a priest wearing plate and wielding a sword is still a fucking paladin. Especially with mass rez being a paladin ability.
    What is your proof that 'nobody gives a fuck about this'? What is your evidence? If I were to say, and I have said, that nobody (by which I mean Blizzard and the vast majority of players) cares about playable high elves beyond the fans of the concept, I can cite facts in favour of that position (Void Elves being created in their stead, the developers ruling it out, the closing of the Allied race cycle without the addition of high elves despite the complaining on the forums...).

    In contrast I suspect when you say it what you actually mean is 'I don't give a fuck about this', but extending that as an opinion to everyone is an attempt to give your words a weight they don't deserve. This is your personal opinion, not anyone else's and almost certainly not the developers.

    Lore matters. Alleria came by her powers a different way from the other Void Elves. Faction diversity matters, this is why all the other Void Elves look different from Blood Elves. For the record, Anduin is confirmed to be a Priest despite wearing plate and wielding a sword. He gets away with doing things other Priests can't because of his status as a major lore character. Insisting he is a Paladin is wrong, and undermines your counterargument.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by LarryFromHR View Post
    Eh, Classic's current numbers far surpass any previous petition and a high elf implementation obviously would too

    There is no scenario where high elven implementation doesn't print money, it's only a matter of when Blizzard caves
    Blind faith can only carry you so far. Were High Elves such a sure money spinner for Blizzard, they would have already added them. They have not, despite developing the Allied race system which some see as tailor made for the addition of the High Elf exiles as a distinct group.

    Blizzard has publicly ruled out the addition of High Elves to the Alliance on the grounds that they damage faction diversity.
    Blizzard has publicly affirmed the importance of that faction divide as a 'pillar of the franchise' as recently as three weeks ago.

    Blizzard actually invented a group of high elves, the Void Elves, who were distinct from the other high elves. They did this to give the Alliance what they have described as 'another type of high elf' and 'something like a Blood Elf' whilst maintaining the faction distinctiveness of the Horde by not giving the Alliance a complete duplicate.

    Void Elves are the most successful allied race and now the fourth most numerous Alliance race. Blizzard therefore got the money you say they would get AND they got to maintain their red lines, thereby proving it is in fact possible to have your cake and eat it.

    So Blizzard won by getting their money. The Horde won by preserving the unique identity of the Blood Elves as the true High Elves of the franchise. And the Alliance won in getting access to a variant of that race, most of whom had the good grace to accept what they were given considering it's success. The only group that lost was the pro High Elf hardcore, who would only settle for a duplicate of a core Horde race. That is regrettable, but it cannot be helped.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenebra the War Criminal View Post
    It wouldn't break anything. Void elves would still go voidform due to their racial proc in combat, so you'd have to be blind to mistake one for a Blood elf.

    Like, I don't want to sound rude, but if you can't tell this isn't a Blood elf you need some glasses:

    Apparently some believe it will be possible to roleplay a Void Elf with pink skin as a High Exile despite that racial proccing. A pink skinned Void Elf will still be a Void Elf and there is no way of pretending otherwise.

    However, Void Elf skin tones are a subject for 2021 which is the earliest point customization for the Allied races will be seen. My own feeling is that Blizzard will use the opportunity to move Void Elves even further away from the Blood/High Elf look, but Afrasiabi has said normal skin tones are possible (which is far from a promise),

    We will see in the fullness of time.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    This is not a good argument as both Death Knights and Demon Hunters have specific skins associated with them yet people choose the regular non-dead ones more often than those specifically dead skins. Nobody cares. This argument was dead-on-arrival.

    There's people that literally play their Blue Eyed Blood Elf DK as if they were never "Sin'dorei" at all. Blizzard isn't going around telling them they can't do that. Same for all other players who choose their Orc or Human to still have living skin tones.

    Source that Blood Elf DK is a Blood Elf, go to 5th post: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/7592203059
    Lorewise your specific example of a Blood Elf DK who argues that they never actually became a Blood Elf isn't wrong, it can be true as every Blood Elf DK died before the switch from High Elf to Blood Elf occurred. After all, the switch from High to Blood has literally amounted to changing a single adjective.

    It is therefore consistent with the lore in a way that pretending your Void Elf isn't a Void Elf would not be as changing a single adjective is not equivalent to being transformed under a bombardment of void energies that alters your entire physiology.



    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    High Elves are still the most requested race for the game. It's crazy that even that is a thing. It is crazy that people who aren't invested into it have heard of this request still being a thiing. I see it often on places like Reddit/other WoW-related sites.
    And they are also the most popular race in the game considering it appears that one in every five players is a Blood Elf. Blood Elves are High Elves and the option is therefore available, just as the option to be a Tauren or an Orc or a Troll or a Dwarf is available. The fundamental issue is that you refuse to accept the faction the high elves of this game are on, it is a question of the company they keep rather than the race itself being invalid. A variant was provided to the Alliance, a different kind of high elves. There are now two high elf options in game, divided by faction, traditional and void. Agitating for more is being greedy.
    Last edited by Obelisk Kai; 2019-11-25 at 11:19 AM.

  4. #13624
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    What is your proof that 'nobody gives a fuck about this'? What is your evidence? If I were to say, and I have said, that nobody (by which I mean Blizzard and the vast majority of players) cares about playable high elves beyond the fans of the concept, I can cite facts in favour of that position (Void Elves being created in their stead, the developers ruling it out, the closing of the Allied race cycle without the addition of high elves despite the complaining on the forums...).

    In contrast I suspect when you say it what you actually mean is 'I don't give a fuck about this', but extending that as an opinion to everyone is an attempt to give your words a weight they don't deserve. This is your personal opinion, not anyone else's and almost certainly not the developers.
    You can stop undermine peoples opinion like this. If High Elves was made as an allied race you know as well as the rest that thousands of players would play it. Because you know damn well that High Elves and elves in general are super popular, no matter the flavor. This thread alone can tell that lots of people care.

    Its Shiza's opinion yes, but it's shared by so many. And it's also shared by many that faction identity means so little. That faction barrier about High Elves were broken with Void Elves. The developers made them, agreeing with people and thus ignored the faction barrier. So that argument has become very weak the two last years.

  5. #13625
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    You can stop undermine peoples opinion like this. If High Elves was made as an allied race you know as well as the rest that thousands of players would play it. Because you know damn well that High Elves and elves in general are super popular, no matter the flavor. This thread alone can tell that lots of people care.

    Its Shiza's opinion yes, but it's shared by so many. And it's also shared by many that faction identity means so little. That faction barrier about High Elves were broken with Void Elves. The developers made them, agreeing with people and thus ignored the faction barrier. So that argument has become very weak the two last years.
    The specific problem with Shiza's reply was that he was trying to reject a comment by saying 'nobody gives a fuck' without providing evidence to back that up, it was merely him stating his personal opinion and trying to give that opinion heft.

    That some people care little for faction identity has become obvious these past few months, ever since a chunk of the forum going community talked themselves into believing that the factions were going away. Just because a group of the community care for something does not mean that their opinion is correct, whether it is in regards to faction identity (which remains strong) or the possibility of traditional high elves within the Alliance (which have now been implicitly ruled out so often it is somewhat crazy this debate continues). Those who care little for faction identity obviously have little time or consideration for the developer viewpoint that the faction divide is an integral pillar of the game.

    As for Void Elves, I have made this point elsewhere but I will make it with you as well.

    You cannot simultaneously argue that Void Elves destroy faction identity whilst at the same time complaining they aren't the High Elves you want. If Void Elves destroyed the faction barrier, then they are the High Elves and those who seek High Elves within the Alliance have won and should go and enjoy their High Elves.
    If you are unhappy with Void Elves because they are not the exact High Elves you wanted, then the faction barrier remains standing because those exact High Elves are Horde Blood Elves.

    Please pick one of the two. You cannot engage in double think and argue both because, as demonstrated, any argument that attempts to do so collapses under it's own contradiction.

  6. #13626
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    - - - Updated - - -

    Apparently some believe it will be possible to roleplay a Void Elf with pink skin as a High Exile despite that racial proccing. A pink skinned Void Elf will still be a Void Elf and there is no way of pretending otherwise.

    However, Void Elf skin tones are a subject for 2021 which is the earliest point customization for the Allied races will be seen. My own feeling is that Blizzard will use the opportunity to move Void Elves even further away from the Blood/High Elf look, but Afrasiabi has said normal skin tones are possible (which is far from a promise),

    We will see in the fullness of time.
    I don't understand this argument. The vast majority of RP is done outside of combat, when the passive doesn't proc.

  7. #13627
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tenebra the War Criminal View Post
    I don't understand this argument. The vast majority of RP is done outside of combat, when the passive doesn't proc.
    Unlike several other races, Void Elves are constrained by their origin. We specifically see where they began, the transformation into a Void Elf. Everything about the Void Elf is shaped by that origin. Not just the racials, but the emotes, the flirts, even the voice with the weird reverb effect that is a by-product of the transformation.

    Now an RP'er may like to pretend that they are really playing a High Elven exile, and in a sense we are all pretending, but an RP'er who attempts to do so will be doing so at odds with how their character is intended to be portrayed. It will be inauthentic. Whether they like it or not, they are in fact a Void Elf.

    RP'ers have to work with the world and the characters they are given in an MMO, because they are such a small portion of the community. While I am sure Blizzard can cater for them, and that Blizzard could also do better in this regard, some requests are just unreasonable. For example, the idea of introducing a 'toggle' to Void Elves could be seen as unreasonable in that the lore expressly shows that Void Elves transform to become Void Elves. A toggle is an attempt to facilitate pretence and is not in line with the game's story. Yes, one Void Elf can transform, but that Void Elf came by her powers in a unique fashion whereas the others came by their powers another way.

    And that leaves aside the gameplay reason Void Elves are purple to begin with. The different colour scheme, thematically appropriate to a void based race, is part of the effort to differentiate Void Elves from the already existing and playable Blood Elves. This deals with gameplay questions of faction diversity.

    It is not just one reason why Void Elves probably won't get pink skins...or if they do they won't be what the people asking for them expect...there are multiple reasons as to why Void Elves are portrayed the way are. And there are multiple reasons why, even if a toggle or normal skin tones were introduced, it wouldn't really work. You cannot pretend to be a High Elf as a Void Elf. Those who play Void Elves made the choice to be Void Elves. And Void Elves have their own dignity as a race within Warcraft, they should not be allowed to be treated as a vehicle for what they aren't and what they can never be. If you play a Void Elf, play it as a Void Elf.

    Alternatively you could roleplay as a Void Elf so batshit crazy they think they are a High Elf and never went through the transformation. Which is certainly how I would treat any Void Elf who insisted they were a High Elf. And yes, that would be a case of using the established lore within the game to plausibly undermine the narrative of anyone using a Void Elf to roleplay a High Elf. It would also be true, as that individual would not actually be playing a High Elf.
    Last edited by Obelisk Kai; 2019-11-25 at 01:53 PM.

  8. #13628
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Unlike several other races, Void Elves are constrained by their origin. We specifically see where they began, the transformation into a Void Elf. Everything about the Void Elf is shaped by that origin. Not just the racials, but the emotes, the flirts, even the voice with the weird reverb effect that is a by-product of the transformation.

    Now an RP'er may like to pretend that they are really playing a High Elven exile, and in a sense we are all pretending, but an RP'er who attempts to do so will be doing so at odds with how their character is intended to be portrayed. It will be inauthentic. Whether they like it or not, they are in fact a Void Elf.

    RP'ers have to work with the world and the characters they are given in an MMO, because they are such a small portion of the community. While I am sure Blizzard can cater for them, and that Blizzard could also do better in this regard, some requests are just unreasonable. For example, the idea of introducing a 'toggle' to Void Elves could be seen as unreasonable in that the lore expressly shows that Void Elves transform to become Void Elves. A toggle is an attempt to facilitate pretence and is not in line with the game's story. Yes, one Void Elf can transform, but that Void Elf came by her powers in a unique fashion whereas the others came by their powers another way.

    And that leaves aside the gameplay reason Void Elves are purple to begin with. The different colour scheme, thematically appropriate to a void based race, is part of the effort to differentiate Void Elves from the already existing and playable Blood Elves. This deals with gameplay questions of faction diversity.

    It is not just one reason why Void Elves probably won't get pink skins...or if they do they won't be what the people asking for them expect...there are multiple reasons as to why Void Elves are portrayed the way are. And there are multiple reasons why, even if a toggle or normal skin tones were introduced, it wouldn't really work. You cannot pretend to be a High Elf as a Void Elf. Those who play Void Elves made the choice to be Void Elves. And Void Elves have their own dignity as a race within Warcraft, they should not be allowed to be treated as a vehicle for what they aren't and what they can never be. If you play a Void Elf, play it as a Void Elf.

    Alternatively you could roleplay as a Void Elf so batshit crazy they think they are a High Elf and never went through the transformation. Which is certainly how I would treat any Void Elf who insisted they were a High Elf.
    I don't see what the problem is. The playable Human is only from Stormwind yet that doesn't stop people from roleplaying humans from Stromgarde, Lordaeron, or Alterac, who are culturally very different.

    Also, giving Void elves pink skin tones doesn't shit on their identity, it gives them the opportunity to look like their leader Alleria. This is no different than people asking for playable Dark Rangers.

  9. #13629
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tenebra the War Criminal View Post
    I don't see what the problem is. The playable Human is only from Stormwind yet that doesn't stop people from roleplaying humans from Stromgarde, Lordaeron, or Alterac, who are culturally very different.

    Also, giving Void elves pink skin tones doesn't shit on their identity, it gives them the opportunity to look like their leader Alleria. This is no different than people asking for playable Dark Rangers.
    Their origins are obscured. You can easily say you are from there but moved to Stormwind. This is consistent with the game world. But you cannot do that with a Void Elf, as we see what makes a Void Elf, the transformation process of being bombarded with Void energy. A Void Elf is always a Void Elf.

    As stated before, Alleria is unique and what she can do is almost certainly non-replicable. After all, her void elf form is also distinct from other Void Elves. But Alleria IS still a Void Elf, and even were Void Elf players to get pink skin tones they would still be Void Elves, not High Elves.

    The request for Dark Rangers strikes me as an odd one overall, as Dark Rangers are not consistent with the Blood Elf origin or the Forsaken origin. I don't think there will be an Undead elf customization available to Blood Elves or Forsaken because of this and would be very surprised if this proves to be the case.

  10. #13630
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Please pick one of the two. You cannot engage in double think and argue both because, as demonstrated, any argument that attempts to do so collapses under it's own contradiction.
    I didn't have to pick, Void Elves was a blessing. Over and over you mix me with someone that really needs High Elves. I got, and I say it again to you for the 10th time, 4 Blood Elves and now I got 4 Void Elves. I don't really give a fuck(to quote Shiza) about High Elves in particular. What I care about is options.

    Faction identity got weakened by Void Elves and Nightborne, even long before those too. But when it comes to the playable races, they broke the so called faction identity. What I do give a fuck about though is how you undermine peoples opinion like you just did again. Your old arguments are weakened by Void Elves, and the last year or so you have stopped using real arguments but instead trying to devalue other peoples argument.

    Population argument: Broken by Void Elves
    Faction Identity: Broken by Void Elves and Nightborne
    Third: I don't really think you had a 3rd to begin with.
    Last edited by Doffen; 2019-11-25 at 04:59 PM.

  11. #13631
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    I simply mentioned the Highmountain tauren because they're an example of an existing race having a population we did not know existed in a location we had no access to until recently.

    As for the rest of your post, nah.

    I'm not asking for "bone elves" or "highmountain elves" or "pale elves". I'm asking for high elves.
    Sorry for the late response, but yeah Blizzard has done this multiple time with "unknown" subspecies of multiple races. Elves also got Nightborne that same expansion.

    But there is no example of an "unknown" sub species that is also the same sub species. Even Elves, as inundated as we are with the variety that pops up every expansion, has not broken this mold. We don't have any example of this happening.

    Could it happen? Sure, I guess, but Shadowlands being the final expansion could also happen. However, we both know going off what exists to us strongly suggest neither are happening soon.

  12. #13632
    So, I had my tinfoil hat today on my way home from work. And just to quote someone wrong, don't get your hopes up because of me. But that statement made by the dev isn't something that went out there on a fly, I think personally. More on that later. So, we don't have Forsaken and Worgen Allied Race yet, the two last if I remember correctly. 8.3 seems to drag along for a loooong time. So, in Legion we had 7.3.5, which brought us the first 4 allied races. Super popular. Allied Races was sold as a Battle for Azeroth feature, and wouldn't it be weird if they did all except those two? I think it would be. And seeing we have a year and we had 7.3.5 in Legion, we will have that in BfA too, with the two last Allied Races.

    But the question is: What races would that be? Ankoan and Gilgoblins? Maybe. But they could be Pandaren Allied Races. But Gilgoblins would be a Goblin one, so I think they won't be. Ankoan are the same type of race like the Jinju, so Ankoan for Alliance, and Mogu which were teaming up with the Zandalari in the past is a good choice for the Horde version of pandaren Allied Race.

    What about the forsaken and the worgen of Gilneas? Blizzard might have some good plans for those. What they have in common is that they were in the Alliance of Lordaeron together. That got destroyed and both of them went their own way, away from Humans, Dwarves, Gnomes and, the High Elves of Quel'thalas. Personally, I have had a hope for High Elf forsaken for a very long time, and to me it's silly they haven't become an option yet. So the Gilnean joined the Alliance during Cataclysm. The Forsaken joined the Horde before that. The Forsaken having Undead High Elves as Allied Race is something I see is very possible. But what for the Worgen? Well, what could Blizzard do if they gave High Elves as Undead option? And what to do in a long content draught? Give something that parts of the playerbase have wanted for a long, long time? Alex Afrisabi said that the High Elves fans shouldn't give up hope? Usually, when Blizzard has decided something, for the time being, they say NO. And they have said no, but then we have this statement. Would he really say something like that if there wasn't something going on? Maybe. Maybe not.

    Just to inform you, future predictions is not my forte. I am right in about 2 of 10. But I thought that this was kinda interesting.
    Last edited by Doffen; 2019-11-25 at 05:05 PM.

  13. #13633
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paraka View Post
    Sorry for the late response, but yeah Blizzard has done this multiple time with "unknown" subspecies of multiple races. Elves also got Nightborne that same expansion.

    But there is no example of an "unknown" sub species that is also the same sub species. Even Elves, as inundated as we are with the variety that pops up every expansion, has not broken this mold. We don't have any example of this happening.
    I imagine the vrykul is one such example. At I couldn't see any differences, physiologically speaking, between the vrykul on Northrend, and the vrykul on the Broken Isles. Not even culturally-speaking.
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  14. #13634
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Lorewise your specific example of a Blood Elf DK who argues that they never actually became a Blood Elf isn't wrong, it can be true as every Blood Elf DK died before the switch from High Elf to Blood Elf occurred. After all, the switch from High to Blood has literally amounted to changing a single adjective.
    It is very much wrong. The game points out that you were a champion of the Sin'dorei once. Therefore anyone who makes a Blood Elf DK and acts as if they were never a Blood Elf is in fact denying reality and RPing their own explanation in despite the game at face-value telling you how it is.

    And that is how I am saying those who utilize High Elf skins on their Void Elves will be doing. Because most people don't give a fuck about that lore bit over the aesthetic of their character and their own head canon.

    By you trying to argue against the Blood Elf DK just now proves my point. It also makes me think you didn't read the discussion happening in that post how all the DK races we make are characters made from the era of Vanilla WoW to Wrath, way past the Blood Elf/High Elf split.

    I wonder what you will try to spin or play ignorant of next.
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    And they are also the most popular race in the game considering it appears that one in every five players is a Blood Elf. Blood Elves are High Elves and the option is therefore available, just as the option to be a Tauren or an Orc or a Troll or a Dwarf is available. The fundamental issue is that you refuse to accept the faction the high elves of this game are on, it is a question of the company they keep rather than the race itself being invalid. A variant was provided to the Alliance, a different kind of high elves. There are now two high elf options in game, divided by faction, traditional and void. Agitating for more is being greedy.
    The real fundamental issue is you being in a thread that has explained numerously the conventional meaning of the term "High Elf" accepted by the majority of the players and developers themselves (Ion even pointing out Alleria as an example of a High Elf) and conflating the term to equal a Blood Elf.

    It would be like someone trying to convince everyone that Night Elf and Highborne mean the exact same thing. There's a reason for the descriptors in the first place and if you wanna keep trying to act as if you're obtuse to these conventionally accepted meanings then by all means please do so.

    All you're doing is showing yourself to be in denial of the reality of what High Elf means in the context of this discussion that you yourself have been the 2nd most involved in.

    The majority isn't going around calling their Blood Elves High Elves, despite how much you try to push that narrative and utilize a Red Herring approach.

    Also the last bit about "agitating for more is being greedy" you can take that opinion and eat it, because everyone asks for more of the game. Trying to act is if what people are asking for here is somehow greedy over the other asks of the game is straight up trying to marginalize other player's desires just because they don't fit or run counter to your own. It's an absolute dog shit thing to do.

    I may not agree that Blood Elves should get more customization over other races that barely have any, but I'm not going to call a player that desires that "greedy". The developers will be the arbiters of that decision and develop/add as they see fit.

  15. #13635
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    I imagine the vrykul is one such example. At I couldn't see any differences, physiologically speaking, between the vrykul on Northrend, and the vrykul on the Broken Isles. Not even culturally-speaking.
    Imagine and what went down are two different things. The Valarjar faction knew of King Ymiron and what transpired in Northrend. So it's extended story that's filling in voids we likely didn't see too much into when pieces were foreshadowed in Wrath. It's similar to the druids in the Broken Isles. Those are Cenarious' charge.

    Two things that don't even have opposition from the developers' points of view. Something High Elves do have against them. Repeated moments of Ion and other stating there is so few, and actions like the VE introduction. You cannot say that about Vrykul (who had stories of exiling southward in Wrath). So they still got the same pattern, no new not-really new race.

    And I am going to acknowledge that you originally requested some pre-High Elves Elves as an excuse to make High Elves, but apparently say that's not what you were asking for. Just asking for High Elves. Cause no predating race has not changed some way to differentiate from what exists now. Which is what I was pointing out.
    Last edited by Paraka; 2019-11-25 at 06:04 PM.

  16. #13636
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    What is your proof that 'nobody gives a fuck about this'? What is your evidence? If I were to say, and I have said, that nobody (by which I mean Blizzard and the vast majority of players) cares about playable high elves beyond the fans of the concept, I can cite facts in favour of that position (Void Elves being created in their stead, the developers ruling it out, the closing of the Allied race cycle without the addition of high elves despite the complaining on the forums...).

    In contrast I suspect when you say it what you actually mean is 'I don't give a fuck about this', but extending that as an opinion to everyone is an attempt to give your words a weight they don't deserve. This is your personal opinion, not anyone else's and almost certainly not the developers.

    Lore matters. Alleria came by her powers a different way from the other Void Elves. Faction diversity matters, this is why all the other Void Elves look different from Blood Elves. For the record, Anduin is confirmed to be a Priest despite wearing plate and wielding a sword. He gets away with doing things other Priests can't because of his status as a major lore character. Insisting he is a Paladin is wrong, and undermines your counterargument.
    Because no matter gives a fuck about convoluded lore reasons why Alleria is supposed to stay a high elf with her iconic design while just switching into her actually cool void form whenever she wants outside of Horde Players who get off from trolling the Alliance. At this point I'm heavily considering just reporting all the Horde trolls as you can see they just want to get a rise out of High Elf Fans or those who are dissapointed by the current look and design of the void elves, I have yet to see a genuinly constructive reply from anyone in these kinds of discussions. I mean, all you did so far in this discussion was trolling

    I mean, Alleria didn't get her powers that much differently from other Void Elves, she got exposed to alot of void energy and has to fight off the corrupting voices, Void elves got exposed to a lot of void energy and so on. I mean, Kael'thas sunstrider also got his power from his verdant spheres which are unique to him but guess what, he looks rather similar to playable blood elves. Velen was an original Eredar but guess what, he has a unique model and beard and shit, but isn't that different from playable Eredar. Tyrande became the Nightwarrior herself, but she doesn't looks fundamentally different from night elves with black eyes.

    First off, nobody can seriously support Blizzards reasoning of why Void elves look the way they do without outing themselves as trolls, considering that they even went so far as do wrong advertisement during the Blizzcon with the Void Elves, talking about a high elf form which was never implemented. Second, giving them High Elf Skins would make sense from a faction balance statepoint as everything that encourages people to play alliance currently is needed. Third, people want to be like Alleria who is the OG Void Elf. Forth, there would have been a compromise for every side. Just give them high elf models with tattoos like Alleria has and actually use the cool and badass void form for their real void elf form when they enter combat and let them stay in this until the player deactivates it.

    It would make Void Elves and Void Elves in the effective play even more different than they are now. People can roleplay high elves better than currently in their cities, people can enjoy the high elf skin when chilling in the cities but effectively, when people do pve or pvp the void elf form is constantly on because nobody bothers to switch forth and back between every battle. In PvP, there would be the one odd hunter who things he can pass as a blood elf with his blue season 1 legion set and after feign death didn't worked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    The specific problem with Shiza's reply was that he was trying to reject a comment by saying 'nobody gives a fuck' without providing evidence to back that up, it was merely him stating his personal opinion and trying to give that opinion heft.
    Nobody gives a fuck because Void Elves are already a mess lore wise and every rule about them is just fucking arbitrary. They could have looked like High Elves who transform into Allerias Void Form in battle, they could have looked like Naga because this is what happened to the last elves who got infused with the void, they could have looked whatever was. This is why nobody gives a fuck about the lore reasons why Void Elves are locked into this look. They are arbitrary and driven by Ions despise for the Alliance, which was clearly shown over all of BFA. Making Void Elves like most people wanted them, Allerias Void Form as the standart form which automatically pops out in combat and the High Elves as a gimmick would have just made everyone happy, because the roleplayers and die hard fans get High Elves but it won't affect anybody outside of cities and rp events, because people stay in their more distinct void form when they do pvp, outside of the few die hards who bother to turn it off in between every pull. And it isn't only the skins. Void Elves just lack any form of visual identity. The Heritage Armor is random and garbage, it should have been something inspired by either Alleria and/or the Locus Walker who are the sole known characters from their lore. Their tabard is fucking ugly and just...nothing. Like, at one point they showed off this reversed phoenix in blue and gold, why not this? Void Elves are the only race where I hate wearing their native nations tabards because it just looks like some random edgelord tabard you pick up from the TCG

    Void Elves have potential and in terms of a thing, I prefer them over High Elves. I just would prefer the High Elf skin with the option to turn on the void form in combat and whenever I want instead of this cool looking skin which makes them visually distinct being just a fucking proc. I mean, at this point Void Elves are fucking lame. They are neither high elves nor this super dark void infused elves whose skin is just pitch black through the void. They are nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    The specific problem with Shiza's reply was that he was trying to reject a comment by saying 'nobody gives a fuck' without providing evidence to back that up, it was merely him stating his personal opinion and trying to give that opinion heft.
    Nobody gives a fuck because Void Elves are already a mess lore wise and every rule about them is just fucking arbitrary. They could have looked like High Elves who transform into Allerias Void Form in battle, they could have looked like Naga because this is what happened to the last elves who got infused with the void, they could have looked whatever was. This is why nobody gives a fuck about the lore reasons why Void Elves are locked into this look. They are arbitrary and driven by Ions despise for the Alliance, which was clearly shown over all of BFA. Making Void Elves like most people wanted them, Allerias Void Form as the standart form which automatically pops out in combat and the High Elves as a gimmick would have just made everyone happy, because the roleplayers and die hard fans get High Elves but it won't affect anybody outside of cities and rp events, because people stay in their more distinct void form when they do pvp, outside of the few die hards who bother to turn it off in between every pull. And it isn't only the skins. Void Elves just lack any form of visual identity. The Heritage Armor is random and garbage, it should have been something inspired by either Alleria and/or the Locus Walker who are the sole known characters from their lore. Their tabard is fucking ugly and just...nothing. Like, at one point they showed off this reversed phoenix in blue and gold, why not this? Void Elves are the only race where I hate wearing their native nations tabards because it just looks like some random edgelord tabard you pick up from the TCG

    Void Elves have potential and in terms of a thing, I prefer them over High Elves. I just would prefer the High Elf skin with the option to turn on the void form in combat and whenever I want instead of this cool looking skin which makes them visually distinct being just a fucking proc. I mean, at this point Void Elves are fucking lame. They are neither high elves nor this super dark void infused elves whose skin is just pitch black through the void. They are nothing.

  17. #13637
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paraka View Post
    Imagine and what went down are two different things. The Valarjar faction knew of King Ymiron and what transpired in Northrend. So it's extended story that's filling in voids we likely didn't see too much into when pieces were foreshadowed in Wrath. It's similar to the druids in the Broken Isles. Those are Cenarious' charge.

    Two things that don't even have opposition from the developers' points of view. Something High Elves do have against them. Repeated moments of Ion and other stating there is so few, and actions like the VE introduction. You cannot say that about Vrykul (who had stories of exiling southward in Wrath). So they still got the same pattern, no new not-really new race.

    And I am going to acknowledge that you originally requested some pre-High Elves Elves as an excuse to make High Elves, but apparently say that's not what you were asking for. Just asking for High Elves. Cause no predating race has not changed some way to differentiate from what exists now. Which is what I was pointing out.
    What I want, in a vacuum, is to have a playable high elf, with Vereesa as the "racial" leader.

    That said, I do not mind if they were given differentiation: white elf, black elf, purple elf... or any color in the spectrum. Taller, shorter, wider, two heads, four arms, no arms, tail, etc... I don't care, as long as they were high elves, carried the name high elf, and had the high elf lore.

    Which is why I would be completely fine with void elves if Umbric and his research team were high elves from Dalaran trying to help the Alliance instead of blood elves banished from Silvermoon for trying to help the Horde. If the void elves were made purely from high elves and not blood elves as well.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  18. #13638
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    What I want, in a vacuum, is to have a playable high elf, with Vereesa as the "racial" leader.

    That said, I do not mind if they were given differentiation: white elf, black elf, purple elf... or any color in the spectrum. Taller, shorter, wider, two heads, four arms, no arms, tail, etc... I don't care, as long as they were high elves, carried the name high elf, and had the high elf lore.

    Which is why I would be completely fine with void elves if Umbric and his research team were high elves from Dalaran trying to help the Alliance instead of blood elves banished from Silvermoon for trying to help the Horde. If the void elves were made purely from high elves and not blood elves as well.
    That's fair, but a race already has the High Elf namesake, and that's the High Elves we know today. And for you, this will sadly mean the new Elves, predating or otherwise, will not be High Elf by name. Simply because the patterns and actions we have been given. Because every race that has had something that predated them, they're different enough to not just be Orcs, or Tauren, or Highborne, or Trolls. Which means the High Elves we all know are the High Elves.

    And though you want Alleria to lead, Blizzard's actions, and statements on the matter (regardless how vague) is that they're not keen on giving you High Elves, as High Elves. They've made great lengths to provide evidence that they don't see a near future that this will be a thing. It's why Blood Elves were used to introduce the Void Elves, why Alleria is chosen to lead them, why the starting zone chose to mention they're recruiting High Elves to the same ranks. And with all that, and add the fact Blizzard is looking to add races beyond the archetype is why they created various Troll tribes and Wildhammer options in Shadowlands in spite of their cultural differences there. The latter is why I am noticing a pattern and suspect HE variants are more likely to be the address to your requests for a High Elf. Their answer to your demand has been VE even if you didn't like it and I am suspect they'll build on that to convince you otherwise.

    As a traditional Hordie, I can relate to that, as they've given similar examples why Ogres have not joined the playable ranks, in similar excuses like how minuscule their ranks are. Only difference is they're so little they cannot even consider Void Ogres.

  19. #13639
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Those who care little for faction identity obviously have little time or consideration for the developer viewpoint that the faction divide is an integral pillar of the game.
    The developers care so little for faction identity that the Blood Elves were given to the Horde in the first place. "Muh faction identity" is a weak argument when it's regularly degraded by the developers, and amounts to an excuse exclusively used to shut down High Elf requests.

  20. #13640
    Field Marshal bdlovelace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiza View Post
    I mean, Alleria didn't get her powers that much differently from other Void Elves, she got exposed to alot of void energy and has to fight off the corrupting voices, Void elves got exposed to a lot of void energy and so on
    her void transformation was actually very different from void elves. how many times do you have to be told? void elves are the result of interrupting the process of turning into an ethereal. alleria absorbed the essence of a naaru in a void state. a naaru falling into void state is EXTREMELY rare, with literally only a few known cases. unless void naaru start becoming a common thing you have little hope of the void elves replicating her transformation. not that it would ever happen anyway. its not an accident they lack those skin tones its intentional after all. its what makes them distinct from blood elves

    and as kai said 2021 is probably the earliest they will get around to AR customization. if they do. they said the core races getting new customization cost us a new class. so i dont think its a priority for them. i would expect more void themed options, maybe even ethereal like options, but i dont EVER see them getting a blood elf skintone
    Last edited by bdlovelace; 2019-11-26 at 02:24 AM.

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