Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Doffen]

I think this thread gets complex the more i talk about it. So ye totally would prefer just mixing high elves and blood elves again on Silvermoon. And the Silver Covenant ones, could just stay where they are. They have too much going on there, to just join Horde again and Silvermoon as their city, they don't belong there anymore.

'but it won't happen because of gameplay restriction', kind of, if there was a way to make them blood elves, and joining a opposite faction, then there's a way for them to come back to it, or even mixing on the opposite faction.

All old races deserve new customizations. The game is here for so long, i think it's about time. Blood elves is what i have the most. I always even think "why do i keep making blood elves?", well i'm a woman. Basically i only enjoy male chars of all races but i feel weird playing them, and only females i can enjoy atm is nightborne and blood elf as female.

And my god, how i'm so sick of seeing all my chars with same hairs. lol

I play the Blood Elf female because they have the best animation really. They look nice sure, but the casting animation is just so much better than all the rest imo. Leveling another DH now, Belf now of course since I got a Nelf(which was a Belf :P) Also female. Though a male DH doesn't look that bad.

I am man, and I would like to play more male characters, but they just looks so bad compared to the females. Some races, like Tauren and worgen I prefer male to play. Got 2 males at 120 now, Worgen Druid and 120 Gnome Hunter. But that hunter goes vulpera next patch. Not decided male/female yet.

Options. That's what interesting in a game like WoW. I am glad I don't feel I have to be that race or that race for any reason. Luckily Blood Elves have been good when it comes to gameplay, maybe I am blessed. Like 19.5%% of the whole WoW-population which are Blood Elves at 120

[Ielenia]

Most of Northrend Vrykul has abandoned the Titans in favor of different gods.

Stormheim Vrykul still venerate Titans.

Tideskorn decided to back Legion.

Drust are legit different though in regards to culture.

Yes, but they're basically still physiologically the same, aren't they?

[Shakana]

I play the Blood Elf female because they have the best animation really. They look nice sure, but the casting animation is just so much better than all the rest imo. Leveling another DH now, Belf now of course since I got a Nelf(which was a Belf :P) Also female. Though a male DH doesn't look that bad.

I am man, and I would like to play more male characters, but they just looks so bad compared to the females. Some races, like Tauren and worgen I prefer male to play. Got 2 males at 120 now, Worgen Druid and 120 Gnome Hunter. But that hunter goes vulpera next patch. Not decided male/female yet.

Options. That's what interesting in a game like WoW. I am glad I don't feel I have to be that race or that race for any reason. Luckily Blood Elves have been good when it comes to gameplay, maybe I am blessed. Like 19.5%% of the whole WoW-population which are Blood Elves at 120

I love male belves, just the posture and faces as a demon hunter ain't that good, but i like some faces, one of them even has a scar and you can be shirtless with tattoos like illidan, which on female you can't, it just look instead like a slut mog then

I like male troll, male undead, male tauren, male mag'har.

If we talk about orcs, i prefer mag'har way more, skin color, their tattos too. They look more brute and natural. I like them. Even tho i like mok'nathal more :P

[Obelisk Kai]

We'll see...I doubt he would have said that High Elves are possible, just not for BFA if they weren't at least considering it. If all they are planning to do is give Blood Elves blue eyes they could have done that long ago and be done with the whole thing "shrugs"

Probably been well over a year since he said that...definitely before his "High Elves are possible, just not in BFA" quote.

He didn't say High Elves are possible. He said anything is possible in future, and he said 'we have no plans for that in BFA' to that person from the High Elf discord whose day he was trying not to ruin.

'No plans for it in BFA' does not mean it becomes possible once BFA is done, in the same way a politician who says no tax rises in this term means there will be tax rises in the term after. It means no plans for it in BFA. And it looks like no plans for it in Shadowlands either.

'Anything is possible' is a verbal tic he throws in after he has ruled out something out to cover himself. That is it. It's lawyer talk. He said it to pro High Elfers on High Elves, he said it to Preach on Master loot, and Preach isn't going around saying 'master looting is coming back eventually, Ion said is anything is possible.' And it is not his fault that you read way too much into what he said when his meaning was blatantly clear. No plans now, no plans in future and if it ever happens it will be due to a set of circumstances he couldn't foresee.

After all, the rationale he gave for rejecting Alliance High Elves is evergreen. It doesn't have a time limit. Faction identity and faction diversity didn't suddenly start mattering less because BFA ended. Those are eternal concepts in wow. They spent the last Blizzcon repeatedly rubbishing suggestions that the factions were going away or being weakened. As long as factions matter, playable high elves for the alliance wont happen.

- - - Updated - - -

snip.

The problem with your response, with it's litany of references to all these other races is that somehow you keep missing the fundamental point. Are wildhammer Dwarves playable as a Horde race? Are Desert Trolls playable as an Alliance race? Are they even available at all?


No, no and no.

High Elves are not an unavailable option. As Blood Elves, they are currently playable as a core race of the Horde. And you are arguing that that core Horde race should be duplicated to the Alliance somehow. If not by a dedicated alliance race slot, then through pretending with a Void Elf.

None of the other examples you bring up matter because none of the other examples have the unique issues the Alliance High Elf request has, and your refusal to engage with this renders your retorts pretty hollow.

[Dark Succ]

Yes, but they're basically still physiologically the same, aren't they?

Ah. Should've double checked your point. Apologies.

- - - Updated - - -

A Human who begins the game shows up in Northshire Abbey with a generic set of racials, allowing the player to fill out the backstory however they wish. The Human player has a lot more freedom in game to flesh out their own backstory as a result. In fact, one of the guards in Stormwind now comments that they wish dreamed of going back home to Lordaeron one day, but that Sylvanas's actions make that impossible, canonically proving that Stormwind is now a melting pot of humanity from all across the Eastern Kingdoms.

I like the notion of Stormwind eventually becoming the New Arathor.

[Strippling]

Well I'd take no thalassian elves in the Alliance over Void Elves - and I like them. They are lore-breaking, inferior version of the High Elves.

Personal biased opinion. Nothing more. To me void elves are far more intriguing than a diminishing group of elves with no real culture or society.

There is also zero indication than more than two High Elves (Alleria and Vereesa) have taken to marry with humans. Arathor is still the only ingame Half-Elf while there is dozens of named High Elves in the Alliance.

To my knowledge the only off-spring of alliance aligned high elves we know of are half elves... both Alleria and Vareesa's kids. There is no known full blooded alliance high elf exile off-spring (though I'm willing to be corrected if I'm wrong on this). So we have at least 3 known half elf children, and no known full blooded elf children.. this would indicate that alliance high elves are being diluted with humans, which fits Elisande's description of them. Alliance high elf exiles are certainly not a thriving group, every record we have of them indicates they're a dwindling group with no real culture or society. The lead game developer even confirmed this:

Giving that race directly to the Alliance would have blurred a lot of the lines between the two factions, but also there isn't a clear example of who or what High Elves are as a larger group which remains in Azeroth. There's a couple...we just met Alleria again...but they're not out there in the same way.

Void Elves (and Mechagnomes) are just another proof of Blizzard lazyness and inability (or unwillingness) to craft interesting and well-integrated new races for the Alliance, a fact which stretches back to TBC. Even Lightforged, to whom joining the Alliance makes perfect sense, since the Horde slaughtered their kindred and they aren't exactly the forgiving type, don't hold a candle compared to the Highmountains in term of information regarding their lives, organization and traditions. They are just Draeneï who worship the Light harder. And Void Elves are just TBC Blood Elves who fuck up harder with dangerous energies.

Again, nothing more than a personal, biased, subjective opinion sprinkled with a touch of 'victim complex'.

[FlubberPuddy]

The problem with your response, with it's litany of references to all these other races is that somehow you keep missing the fundamental point. Are wildhammer Dwarves playable as a Horde race? Are Desert Trolls playable as an Alliance race? Are they even available at all?

No, no and no.

High Elves are not an unavailable option. As Blood Elves, they are currently playable as a core race of the Horde. And you are arguing that that core Horde race should be duplicated to the Alliance somehow. If not by a dedicated alliance race slot, then through pretending with a Void Elf.

None of the other examples you bring up matter because none of the other examples have the unique issues the Alliance High Elf request has, and your refusal to engage with this renders your retorts pretty hollow.

Wildhammers, Desert Trolls, Dark Trolls, and Dragonmaw Orcs are as unplayable as High Elves are.

The only difference is that High Elves are a group on Alliance. Like that is what makes them unique.

So trying to ask your questions is pretty dumb, because the group of elves on Alliance calling themselves High Elves and being high elves is what makes that group unique in the first place.

There is no other group of NPCs in the game that is unique in that way (being part of one faction despite the majority of their kin being on the other side). But those other groups you mention are unique in other ways, such as being from different tribes/clans.

What you're failing at here is trying to equate every way that High Elves on Alliance are to these other subgroups and that's how it doesn't work.

Besides, if you did that, again I can just call to Nightborne being the example that breaks your argument. There already has been a sharing of elves.

Therefore, you really shouldn't be using those examples as trying to say "do you see dwarves on Horde" etc, because the elven groups themselves are already the exception to the rule with both factions now having Night Elven and High Elven playable options.

- - - Updated - - -

A Human who begins the game shows up in Northshire Abbey with a generic set of racials, allowing the player to fill out the backstory however they wish. The Human player has a lot more freedom in game to flesh out their own backstory as a result. In fact, one of the guards in Stormwind now comments that they wish dreamed of going back home to Lordaeron one day, but that Sylvanas's actions make that impossible, canonically proving that Stormwind is now a melting pot of humanity from all across the Eastern Kingdoms.

Yet that's not something shared by High Elves and Blood Elves. We see post-Sunwell pilgrimage that events such as the Purge of Dalaran in MoP and its continued remembrance in the recent War Campaign of BfA continue to hold the animosity that High Elves and Blood Elves have toward each other.

We still do not see High Elves 'wishing we were back home' to Silvermoon and we still do not see Blood Elves 'wishing their High Elven brethren would return'. On the contrary we actually have the opposite.

We have characters like Vereesa saying she hopes the Blood Elves will one day make a return to the Alliance and Magister Umbric showing they never agreed it was right to join the Horde and stating 'the Alliance are where our people belong.'

So if you wanna bring up NPC rambles then it reinforces that there's a big schism still between High Elves of the Alliance and Blood Elves of the Horde and more so than not a repeated comment of the idea of Blood Elves being back with the Alliance and that Silvermoon is not a "melting pot" of Thalassians. It is Horde territory and Horde-owned and plays a central role to Blood Elves more than any other Thalassian variant.

I don't see Void Elves or High Elves going on and on within the Alliance about great the Sunwell and Silvermoon is and how they miss it.

[Dark Succ]

snip

Umbric is probably toeing the party line though, so it's natural for him to say that. I think he's lying through his teeth, since most non-frontline Sin'dorei and Quel'dorei frown at both factions, but they are too weak to stand on their own for now. Many elves hate the Alliance thanks to people like Arthas, Jaina, and Garithos. I am sure there are some who dislike the Horde as well, since one might think that they are no better than the Alliance, drawing their exhausted people for wars that aren't their own. People of Quel'thalas look after themselves first and others second.

Which is why I don't understand the Silver Covenant. They seem more eager to serve the Alliance than their people.

Also, Quel'dorei messing with Void seems wrong to me. They refused to deal with Fel, so I'd think they would completely be against the Void.

As much as an Alliance fan I am, I consider playing Blood Elves to be a better choice than the Silver Covenant Quel'dorei pro-high elf fans want. Or even the Void Elves, who are far more interesting than High Elves.

Kinda unrelated, but I expect some void elves and Alleria to be Kael'thas'd in a form of call back by Blizzard. Elves don't get along well with dark powers.

[Broflake]

The vast majority of the High elves are Alliance-aligned. Stop pretending they aren't.

Cool, do you have any lore which states this? What you see in game is not representative of the lore at all times. For example, Goldshire is significantly larger and a significant distance away from Stormwind. On the other hand, it is extremely small in game. We have nothing that suggests where the majority lie in terms of their alignment.

You can be both neutral AND Alliance aligned. See Maiev, Khadgar, Malfurion prior to BFA but also Anduin in MoP.

Maiev, Malfurion, and Anduin are all alliance aligned and not neutral.
Neutral would mean they hold no loyalty to either group, which is the case of Khadgar. It is not correct to suggest such a thing in these cases.

High elves have been hunted down by the forsakens and the Horde since Vanilla.

Their people have also been hunted down by humans, spied on by night elves and dwarves, and attacked by trolls and other beings. They have also been subject to night elf racism.
This means nothing, however, as times change over time.

The whole world is neutral to the Horde only because Blizzard is lazy but also for gameplay purposes.

Except that they are neutral based upon lore and it is justified accordingly. Such as Dalaran reaching out to the Blood elves to have them rejoin.

And the Stormwind high elves, 7th Legion elves, the Allerian elves, and numerous Dalaran, Alliance aligned elves would like to have a word with you.

The Allerian stronghold elves are arguably neutral as seen with Auric Sunchaser who is neutral in WotLK and is seeking to reunite high elf and blood elf groups. As such, it is unknown where they currently lie in their alignments.
Numerous dalaran high elves are neutral to the Horde or friendly.

It isn't a testament about who lies where in terms of alignment or how many.
You can be annoyed as much as you want, but that is the fact of the matter.

Of course, if we want to be as literal as possible, one can say 90% of the race is Horde aligned.

[bdlovelace]

The only difference is that High Elves are a group on Alliance. Like that is what makes them unique.

so what? the race is already playable

the fogsail freebooters, a human pirate faction, fight for the horde now. they even offer a quest called 'fogsail for a day' during assaults to go out and kill as many alliance as you can

https://www.wowhead.com/npc=146773/f...delviewer:10+0

they arent even the first group of humans to do so. should horde humans be a thing now?

[FlubberPuddy]

so what? the race is already playable

the fogsail freebooters, a human pirate faction, fight for the horde now. they even offer a quest called 'fogsail for a day' during assaults to go out and kill as many alliance as you can

https://www.wowhead.com/npc=146773/f...delviewer:10+0

they arent even the first group of humans to do so. should horde humans be a thing now?

Talk about the freebooters or any other of those human groups when they’ve fought and stayed steadfast allies of the the greater faction for multiple expansions.

That’s the difference between High Elves on the Alliance and these once in a blue moon groups of “horde humans” .

Is there a human as part of one of the Horde Island expedition teams? Cuz there’s definitely a High Elf as part of an Alliance one.

All the High Elves in the Alliance have been and continue to be steadfast allies. Not just opportunists like the groups you mention.

But you only ever chime in when you feel like there’s a quick slight you can make do this post of yours isn’t surprising at all.

It just continues to show your lack of objectivity.

[Manariel]

Personal biased opinion. Nothing more. To me void elves are far more intriguing than a diminishing group of elves with no real culture or society.

Please. Go on, tell me which sub-fraction of the Thalassian Elves was always able to field equally large armies as the Sin'doreï in WoW history. Not once, but everytime they were displayed. Here's an hint : they aren't purple.

Also, have you been to Telogrus Rift ? Can you tell me what the culture of the Void Elves is ? Because it seems to me to be "Blood Elves culture but with Void Magic sprinkled on it". Which is very distinct from the High Elves, who have chosen to distance themselves from the excesses of the larger Thalassian culture and, by keeping their name, have changed its meaning and legacy over time.

Which is why I don't understand the Silver Covenant. They seem more eager to serve the Alliance than their people.

Also, Quel'dorei messing with Void seems wrong to me. They refused to deal with Fel, so I'd think they would completely be against the Void.

Because the Alliance are their people, not the Sin'doreï. They put values and principles over blood and inherited loyalities. That's why they are heroes of the Alliance when the Blood Elves are just despicable scum. And I agree that having High Elves pilgrim in telogrus makes no sense, especially when the devs didn't even bother switching their lines from the BE here.

Cool, do you have any lore which states this? What you see in game is not representative of the lore at all times. For example, Goldshire is significantly larger and a significant distance away from Stormwind. On the other hand, it is extremely small in game. We have nothing that suggests where the majority lie in terms of their alignment.

100% of High Elves NPC are Alliance. None are Horde, and the perhaps two who could be High Elves on the Horde have zero lore and are basically just mistakes that the devs never bothered themselves to correct. And it's jsut false to claim that the High Elves presence is small in game. They are extremely numerous. Far more than Worgens or Draeneï or even Gnomes, a core race of the Alliance !

You can meet a lot in Stormwind, in Quel'danil, some in Dwarven and Night Elves zones (for the latter, at least you can in Classic, as early as Auberdine), Dalaran, the Ghostlands, Dragonblight (or whatever the English name is the the zone with the Wyrmrest Accord faction in Northrend), Icecrown (Argent Tournament), Pandaria (Landfall + Isle of Thunder), the Outland (mostly in Allerian Stronghold) and Suramar. From the top of my head.

[Dark Succ]

Because the Alliance are their people, not the Sin'doreï. They put values and principles over blood and inherited loyalities. That's why they are heroes of the Alliance when the Blood Elves are just despicable scum.

Well, when you breed with humans enough times they do become your people I guess.

100% of High Elves NPC are Alliance. None are Horde, and the perhaps two who could be High Elves on the Horde have zero lore and are basically just mistakes that the devs never bothered themselves to correct. And it's jsut false to claim that the High Elves presence is small in game. They are extremely numerous. Far more than Worgens or Draeneï or even Gnomes, a core race of the Alliance!

Not really. AFAIK They are are many neutrals among them, although the ones who are affilated with the Alliance outnumber those who aren't. And high elves sure as shit do not outnumber the Gilneans, Draenei or the Gnomes. Say what you will about him, but Arthas knew his shit.

I don't mind if Playable High Elves ever become a thing, since I cut any connections I had with retail in favor of classic, but I don't think they offer enough uniqueness in the face of Blood Elves to be developed.

[Strippling]

Please. Go on, tell me which sub-fraction of the Thalassian Elves was always able to field equally large armies as the Sin'doreï in WoW history. Not once, but everytime they were displayed. Here's an hint : they aren't purple.

Never have the high elves fielded armies equally as large as the blood elves. In small excursions they can manage a few numbers, but even then half the time you see them alongside dalaran humans to make up their lack of numbers. I think you're mistaking them for a thriving society. They don't even have a city of their own, they literally squat in other cities.

Also, have you been to Telogrus Rift ? Can you tell me what the culture of the Void Elves is ? Because it seems to me to be "Blood Elves culture but with Void Magic sprinkled on it". Which is very distinct from the High Elves, who have chosen to distance themselves from the excesses of the larger Thalassian culture and, by keeping their name, have changed its meaning and legacy over time.

Perhaps you haven't seen the high elf scholars hanging about on Telogrus Rift. For a group who apparently "abhor" blood elves, they sure seem comfortable there. Alliance high elf exiles haven't changed the meaning and legacy of high elves... the blood elves have. The high elf exiles are literally bygones of the past, dwindling away with no culture or real society. They have no city of their own, they're nigh extinct and are diluting their posterity with humans. The high elf exiles legacy is one of traitor-sim to their people, to their family. A legacy of abandoning their people. On top of that, they are far from "pure", as we saw the high elves of Quel'lithien lodge turn wretched for abusing seductive magic.

100% of High Elves NPC are Alliance. None are Horde, and the perhaps two who could be High Elves on the Horde have zero lore and are basically just mistakes that the devs never bothered themselves to correct. And it's jsut false to claim that the High Elves presence is small in game. They are extremely numerous. Far more than Worgens or Draeneï or even Gnomes, a core race of the Alliance !

100% false. There are high elf NPCs who are neutral, such as the high elf in Ratchet who actually hates the alliance and I'm pretty sure he gives you a quest to kill alliance sailors.

Also, I can factually state that Worgens, Draenei and Gnomes are substantially more present than high elves. A quick search on wowpedia of Draenei/Gnome/Draenei NPCs shows you that there is significantly more NPCs of these races as opposed to high elf NPCs (literally, significantly more). If you're too lazy to do the search and would prefer your head canon then I can post links to back my claims. If you choose to remain stubborn though and hold on to this false notion (fanfictioned) then I ask you simply link your sources evidencing high elves are "extremely numerous, far more than Worgens or Draenei or even Gnomes" (to quote you word for word).

[scubi666stacy]

(SNIP) Yet that's not something shared by High Elves and Blood Elves. We see post-Sunwell pilgrimage that events such as the Purge of Dalaran in MoP and its continued remembrance in the recent War Campaign of BfA continue to hold the animosity that High Elves and Blood Elves have toward each other.

We still do not see High Elves 'wishing we were back home' to Silvermoon and we still do not see Blood Elves 'wishing their High Elven brethren would return'. On the contrary we actually have the opposite.

We have characters like Vereesa saying she hopes the Blood Elves will one day make a return to the Alliance and Magister Umbric showing they never agreed it was right to join the Horde and stating 'the Alliance are where our people belong.'

So if you wanna bring up NPC rambles then it reinforces that there's a big schism still between High Elves of the Alliance and Blood Elves of the Horde and more so than not a repeated comment of the idea of Blood Elves being back with the Alliance and that Silvermoon is not a "melting pot" of Thalassians. It is Horde territory and Horde-owned and plays a central role to Blood Elves more than any other Thalassian variant.

I don't see Void Elves or High Elves going on and on within the Alliance about great the Sunwell and Silvermoon is and how they miss it.

Even if we ignore the fact that all High Elves have been allowed to visit the Sunwell - how is this the argument for playable High Elves? It only shows that High Elves are morons deluded by their newly found ideology, splitting hairs about morality in the face of survival in extreme situations. Never would want to play such a holier-than-thou hypocrite.

Void Elves have been thrown out of Quel'thalas because of their Void shenanigans. Not hard to understand why they react this way. They literally have nowhere to go. Also, some Alliance NPCs discussing the Sunwell is probably just a waste of code and money for Blizzard.

[FlubberPuddy]

Even if we ignore the fact that all High Elves have been allowed to visit the Sunwell - how is this the argument for playable High Elves? It only shows that High Elves are morons deluded by their newly found ideology, splitting hairs about morality in the face of survival in extreme situations. Never would want to play such a holier-than-thou hypocrite.

Void Elves have been thrown out of Quel'thalas because of their Void shenanigans. Not hard to understand why they react this way. They literally have nowhere to go. Also, some Alliance NPCs discussing the Sunwell is probably just a waste of code and money for Blizzard.

We're not ignoring it, I literally mention it in the 2nd sentence of the portion you quoted. What you're doing is ignoring all the things that happened after-the-fact and all the canon sayings NPCs are saying.

All the mentions of the schism between High Elves and Blood Elves is merely there to draw the contrast to Obelisk's commentary on Stormwind being a melting pot. While Stormwind might be that, Silvermoon most definitely is not.

The Sunwell itself isn't even located in Silvermoon.

And it's cool if you don't wanna play them and that's how you see em. I see Ogres as dumbass fat shits and I wouldn't ever play em either. I wouldn't deny others of it though, but I guess that's the difference here.

[Ignaz]

Even if we ignore the fact that all High Elves have been allowed to visit the Sunwell - how is this the argument for playable High Elves? It only shows that High Elves are morons deluded by their newly found ideology, splitting hairs about morality in the face of survival in extreme situations. Never would want to play such a holier-than-thou hypocrite.

So, in order to "survive" blood elves sucked the lives of living beings.
Mmm... The way i see it, blood elves did that to satisfy their addiction (a questionable action) even when there are ways to end that addiction.

Being faithful to your moral principles and beliefs does not make you a hypocrite, quite the opposite

[matrix123mko]

so what? the race is already playable

the fogsail freebooters, a human pirate faction, fight for the horde now. they even offer a quest called 'fogsail for a day' during assaults to go out and kill as many alliance as you can

https://www.wowhead.com/npc=146773/f...delviewer:10+0

they arent even the first group of humans to do so. should horde humans be a thing now?

Well, maybe yes.

- - - Updated - - -

So, in order to "survive" blood elves sucked the lives of living beings.
Mmm... The way i see it, blood elves did that to satisfy their addiction (a questionable action) even when there are ways to end that addiction.

Children and elders died without mana. It is a reason to kill living beings. Are you vegetarian?

Being faithful to your moral principles and beliefs does not make you a hypocrite, quite the opposite

They work with void elves. This makes them hypocrites.

[Ignaz]

Children and elders died without mana. It is a reason to kill living beings.

Children and elders are a exception, not a normality. Like newborns of drug addicted mothers; doctors have to apply small doses of the drug the mother used. Even so, the drug addiction of the mother is morally wrong. The same applies to blood elves.

Are you vegetarian?

Nope, I am not.

They work with void elves. This makes them hypocrites.

why? they are not killing living beings to satisfy their addiction.
The point of dislike of high elves towards the behavior of blood elves was by the dispossession of the vital force of their victims, not by the use of magic.
That's what the sunwell was for, when they were all HE

[FlubberPuddy]

They work with void elves. This makes them hypocrites.

They're only this way because Blizzard wrote them that way. So we should probably alert those people in the Lore forums that talk about the writers making no sense of what's been going on